Find Your Fuel

Episode 19: The Sandwich Generation with Eliesa Johnson and Robyn Frank

• Erin Martin • Episode 19

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Are you in the Sandwich Generation!? That high-stakes stage of midlife, where you are simultaneously raising young children and managing the care of aging parents. Between the relentless daily tasks, complex medical needs, and the mounting financial strain of supporting two generations at once, it’s no wonder burnout and stress is real.

In this episode, we sit down with Robyn Frank and Eliesa Johnson, co-hosts of The Sandwich Generation Podcast, to get an unfiltered look at life in the squeeze. Both Robyn and Eliesa are currently living this reality, balancing their own young families while navigating the complexities of assisted living and memory care for their parents. We dive deep into their combined experiences to pick their brains on navigating healthcare, the reality of financial planning, and the heavy emotional toll this season takes. If you’re looking for the fuel and community you need to survive this transition, this conversation is for you.


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Additional resources from this episode can be found at: https://www.fuelwitherin.com/podcast/v/episode-19-navigating-the-sandwich-generation-with-robyn-frank-and-eliesa-johnson


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Disclaimer: The information provided in this podcast and its show notes is for informational and educational purposes only. It is not intended as medical advice or as a substitute for the advice of a physician or other healthcare professional. Using this information does not create a doctor-patient relationship.

Do not use this information to diagnose or treat any health problem or to prescribe any medication or treatment. Always consult with a qualified healthcare professional before making changes to your diet, exercise routine, or medications, or before starting any herbal or nutritional supplements. Statements regarding dietary supplements have not been evaluated by the FDA and are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. The use of any information provided is solely at your own risk. This disclaimer also applies to any of the guests on the podcast.

SPEAKER_02

I mean, when you're in the sandwich generation, it's just very specific. It's a very specific time in life. And uh we were like, we have to talk about this. Like it because no one's talking about this. We can't Can we swear, by the way? Oh, yes. Okay. Oh, yes. 100%.

SPEAKER_01

Totally sure.

SPEAKER_03

Hello, and welcome to another episode of Find Your Fuel, the podcast where we bring you stories from women who've overcome different physical, mental, and emotional struggles and found the fuel to live their best lives. I'm your host, Erin Martin. And if all of a sudden you found yourself in the sandwich generation, that unique stage of midlife where you're raising young kids while also trying to care for aging parents and are experiencing the stress, the burnout, the financial strain as you manage all of the tasks and medical needs and financial support for two generations. Then this conversation is for you. Our guests, Robin Frank and Elisa Johnson, know these struggles well as they both have young kids with parents in assisted living and memory care. And they've navigated so much in their combined experiences. So today I picked their brain on all of it, navigating healthcare, finances, the emotional toll. Robin and Elisa are also co-hosts of the Sandwich Generation podcast. So if you found yourself in the sandwich generation, then our conversation is your fuel for today.

SPEAKER_01

Well, I say the funny thing is when we were going through this in 2020 and 2021, like there wasn't, I didn't know the term the sandwich generation. I think somebody said to me, Hey, you're the sandwich generation. I was like, What the hell is that? I'm making a sandwich. They're like, no, get it. You're sandwiched between like taking care of your parents and your kids. I was like, oh, I got it. And so I think, you know, a lot has happened since 2020, 2021 with this idea because I think more and more people are going through it. But one of the reasons I kept pinging Lisa is because we couldn't find like cool ways or condensed ways or concise ways or modern ways to get help and information. Like there wasn't really anything out there that was like really addressing this moment in life that felt like us. So that's like another thing I just wanted to add.

SPEAKER_03

But I didn't mean to cut you off is the complex. I mean, the more that I hear your guys' story, which we'll hear about next, and just the different modalities that are involved from financial to emotional to everyday living. Just, I mean, everything is so complex when you're dealing with aging parents and then on the flip side, toddlers. It's wild. And I know you guys wild. It is wild. And your intimate stories. So I would also love to hear those. And I don't know, Robin or Elisa, if you want to go first with just your own experience with aging parents.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. So um I think we both kind of entered this phase around the pandemic. And my mom's health was starting to kind of take a turn first, and nothing totally major, but um, like she didn't have a big health event. It was just she has a lot of autoimmune disease and um other physical things happening. So she was then using a walker, she had to stop driving. Um, housework was becoming really difficult for her, and she really kind of liked the idea of assisted living. Um, and so we started pursuing, we started looking at assisted living communities, I guess I should say. And at the time, my dad was like still driving, healthy, on the go. And I mean, we started the conversations early, which is I I didn't really plan on that, but I think I'm really lucky that my parents or my mom specifically kind of brought the conversation to us. Like she was like, I think I'm ready for something different. I think I'm ready for extra help. Um so that was good. You know what I mean? But it what was harder is the pregnant, right? I was uh I think at the time, no, I think when we started all these conversations and stuff, I was pregnant. Um, but then you know, Florence was born, and then uh when my parents moved, it was a couple years later because COVID was in there, and there was a lot of places that were not accepting new residents during that time because it was so crazy. So the timeline honestly gets a little fuzzy for me because I feel like by the time that they actually moved, it was like 2021, maybe even. And they moved together, so your dad went with her. They did end up moving together, and that's what I was gonna say is that while my mom was all on board with this idea, it took a long time for my dad to get on board, and he wasn't so sure about it. He didn't I mean, neither of them really wanted to leave the hometown that they had all been born and raised and lived in, you know, like they lived there their whole lives. Yeah, so and but they wanted to move closer to us, which is like an hour, hour and a half away from where they were. So it was a big decision, and it was a big move. And we went on tours and um we actually just recorded an episode yesterday about uh navigating the whole decision of assisted living. Uh, but it's a wild ride to sexy stuff. Yep. Sexy, sexy stuff. Uh lots of promises, uh, lots of like, you know, pictures that are painted, but reality might be a little different. But long story short, we ended up um moving my parents, and a couple months later, my dad had a big health event that really changed the course of his health. So it was really good that both of them did move. Um and, you know, they've they've been champs. They've really kind of considered this their next adventure, but it has not been easy. It's been a series of you know, health events, uh physical changes, financial loss, um, you know, it's been a lot. It's been a wild, wild, wild ride. So um, so with my story, I feel like it started off a little more gradual. Like there were conversations, and again, I didn't realize that I was in the sandwich generation either. Like I was just trying to like help my parents move. I didn't and in the beginning, I think I was really naive and not not wrongly either. I think that everyone enters this phase, and if you want to help your family, you're just like, yep, I can help, or yep, I can do that. Yeah. But I mean, I own businesses. I have for like 20 years now. I was like, I can do this, I can help find you guys a place to live, I can fill up paperwork, I can l I can do the thing. But holy shit, it has been so much more than I could have ever imagined. Hello, second job. Absolutely. It could be a full-time job 100%, especially caring for the kids and parents. Um, and even if daycare was in there still, it still feels like a full-time job. Um, the amount of like appointments, paperwork, phone calls, my parents are in medical assistance. So there's like a financial component to uh getting them on that program, that state assistance, that was a really, really heavy lift. And that took about like a year, year and a half in there too. Oh, wow. Um, and if a medical event happens, you drop everything, you're rushing to the hospital, then they're going right to daycare pickup. Um, you know, like we're about to leave town on Saturday to go to like a cabin for spring break, but on Friday, I have some like important mail I need to make sure to get to my parents. I have to go deliver their toilet paper order for like the month, you know, like there's all these little things to take care of, even in those really small ways, which seem really easy enough. But when they stack up, you're that's when you realize you're like oh shit. Like this is different. Yeah. Yeah. This is like a marathon. This wasn't like a oh, I'm just gonna help you out. Um, as their health changes, their need for care changes too, and their need, their needs from us change too, even if they're in assisted living. Um, and sometimes even more so a little bit if they're in assisted living, like in different ways that like we couldn't have anticipated.

SPEAKER_03

So um yeah, but they're I don't want to jump ahead too much, but what are the cliff notes then or like the major things that you learned from the assisted living process?

SPEAKER_02

Um cliff notes. Uh if you know you should ask if the assisted living community accepts if they are 100% private pay, meaning that your parents or your family would have to pay completely out of pocket forever and ever. Or if they offer or accept um assistance programs. Yeah, government assistance. So like the elderly care waiver, the caddy waiver, depending on age, things like that. So if money runs out for your family member, your loved one, do they accept um government assistance?

SPEAKER_01

So that's a huge one. Um the biggest thing too is to just always be an advocate for your parents. Like, you know, as people enter into sandwich generation, like you're an advocate for your kids, it's the same. Like your parents are vulnerable. They don't always have like they have a sometimes interesting idea of like Western medicine and doctors, they think they know everything. They like forget they can push back. And you realize, like, oh, that's my job now. Like I have to come in and like make sure my parents are getting what they deserve. They're not being secretly charged for things. Uh assisted I would say Cliff Notes, assisted living is a business. Don't don't ever forget that. Um, there are a lot of people making a lot of money off of the elderly these days. And um, they're the baby boomer generation. It's gonna be huge. They're just on the precipice of it. And so there are a lot, there's a lot of money grabbing going on. So you literally are the person who's like, okay, I need to look at their bill and see what they were charged for.

SPEAKER_03

What would creep into a bill that you didn't, you know, you got to Well, every time, such a good question.

SPEAKER_01

Every time they fall, like at the last place it was$50 every time they fell. Um, it was like, you know, if they asked for someone, if they push their pendant a certain amount of times, they'd be charged like$100. Sometimes every time they push their pendant. Wow.

SPEAKER_03

Um I did not be charged by stuff like that. And that's not every it's not every place.

SPEAKER_02

But that and that's the thing, is like every community has their own pay structure. They have sort of their own a la carte menus that sneak in there. Uh they either accept government assistance or they're 100% private pay. Or they might have like a percentage of rooms that are available for government assistance, or sometimes even like a shared room situation that you might have to move into. So it's not, it's not like a one size fits all system. Um but Robin's right, there's a lot of like corporate speaky things happening there too.

SPEAKER_01

And on average, the person in assisted living is paying around$10,000 a month.

SPEAKER_02

And that's just average.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. That's so imagine like if you have two parents and assisted living sustaining$20,000 a month, which like most Americans don't have. So, you know, we could talk to you for a long time about this, issue, but you probably don't want to spend all of your time talking about assisted living.

SPEAKER_02

But the last clip note that I will say is, which I thought was a really good one from our upcoming episode, is about like to check, to check around and ask around and see like what is the happiness and well-being truly of like the residents there. Are they clean? Are they happy? Um, what's the food like? How's the staff? Like, is the staff equally happy too? There's a lot of turnover in assisted living these days. And that's, you know, an issue in our entire care system in terms of like hospitals, assisted living, daycares, right? So this isn't again just like one place, but are people happy? Do they want to work there? How is the care truly not just maybe from the marketing director, but like taking the time to ask around, ask for referrals, read the reviews, you know, all that's important.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. And one thing I heard too, and this is why I love this stuff, because I am so uneducated in it, and I'm lucky enough right now to have two healthy parents that I feel so blessed. But because of that, I'm like blind to take notes in that it could hit at any moment. And so I just don't know all of these things and tips. And one thing I had heard, but I don't know if this is true or not, related to self-pay or government assisted, is there are some places when you're looking at quality of care, a lot of places that are privately funded and that's what they focus on, have a little higher level of care. But if you can find one where you get grandfathered in through self-pay for the first two or three years, but then government-assisted payments can happen. Once your grandfather's in, that could be one route of finding a quality place where people are happier and it's cleaner. And I don't know if that's true. Have you guys seen that?

SPEAKER_01

Um I think it it I think it varies a lot from state to state. So it's like hard to speak on it because like everyone uses different terms and like there's kind of different um normalcies for different states. But like one thing that's consistent here that the way they talk about it here is like they want to know a lot of places want to know if you have the ability to pay out of your pocket for two years by yourself before they'll even consider looking at government assistance. And that's something like when I went on my my multi-tour of all the places, I was like, I'm on a tour for assisted living. That's what they all said. And if you brought, and this is something we talked about yesterday, if you say something like government assistance while you're on that tour, they look at you differently. Like their face changes. And suddenly they're like, Oh, that's who you are. Even if you have a runway, even if you have two years, they look at you differently. So, which is insane because most people cannot afford these costs. So, like, I'm asking the question because I'm educated and I'm savvy and I know what to ask it. Um, but I also know what it means when your face changes because you realize you're not gonna make as big of like, you know, the it's not as dreamy of an application, right? So again, it's just kind of understanding that it it is a business. There are so many people that are so caring and are so humane about it. And they're like we have so many beautiful people that care for our parents, but we also recognize that like people have, you know, understand that this is like a money-making, it's a very profitable model, you know. So it's just something to look out for.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. And then Robin, on your side, I know you have your own story too. Have you you've done assisted living and memory care for your mom?

SPEAKER_01

Yes. So I so my story is that in 2020, my dad had a massive stroke, um, kind of at the end of the year. And so my parents were like in their early 70s and they were they were very capable. They lived, you know, it was fine. My mom was like showing some signs of dementia, but they were very mild. And they kind of like he my dad would cover for my mom, and they kind of it worked, you know, like they were doing just fine. Um, and then when my dad had a stroke, everything changed. I'll never forget that day. And they thought he would never speak, like he was in really bad shape. And while he was convalescing, like while he was rehabilitating, my mom was trying to go see my dad on her own, but she was struggling with like directions and she was probably she was just like getting a little bit shaky about driving. She never liked driving on the freeway. And one day she was going to visit him and she got in a massive car accident. And that was the day that I knew my life really changed because I was pregnant. So that was into 2021. And I remember rushing to the ambulance and the scene, and like she could have died, but I realized, like, oh my God, like my mom isn't like her capabilities have completely changed, and I am about to have a baby. I had a one and a half year old at home, and I was like, what do I do? Like, just should my mom come live with me? Like, and my sister and I, and my dad was not in assisted living yet. He was actually kind of in the in-between. So here we are, we've got their house. And like when I would go into the house, even to like check on my mom, because she was kind of like by herself suddenly because my dad was rehabilitating. You know, like the dishes were not cleaned, there was like a lot of moldy stuff in the fridge. Like it looked it didn't, I didn't recognize it as my mom's space. And so a lot of these things were kind of coming to light, and I I I feel like COVID actually accelerated my mom's condition too, because she was such a social person. Um, so ultimately she did get an Alzheimer's diagnosis a little bit later, like into 2023. So that took a while, but ultimately my sister and I knew, and my sister and I do this together, but she doesn't live where my parents live. Um, but we knew that my mom could no longer live alone, and we knew that my dad couldn't go up the stairs, right? So, like, and the medical professionals were all asking the questions of like, who's gonna take care of your dad? What does your house look like? Do you have stairs? Is there a bathroom on the lower level? And like you're kind of putting all this together and you're like, holy shit, like my parents have to move out of the home that we all grew up in. This is insane. Like, we're gonna have to, so you're telling me we're gonna have to like find a place for them to live, we're gonna have to sell their house, like we're gonna have to face the fact that my mom maybe has like officially has dementia, she can no longer drive, my dad can no longer drive. Like it felt as much as Elisa said things happen slowly for her, mine felt overnight. Meanwhile, I'm like, I'm about to have a baby in March. So, like, what the fuck are we gonna do?

SPEAKER_02

Well, and I think that's the thing is like sometimes, sometimes things creep in slowly, but no matter what, like when my dad had his health event, uh which was like two months after they had moved into assisted living, that was my like bam, we're in a different space. Like, cause they were also perfectly codependent when they're both healthy, right? And so if one of them goes down, and even still to this day, like they're certainly more fragile than ever, but like on their good days, they can make it through in certain ways, and on their bad days, it's like they need a lot of help. So it's if you're in the same generation, likely there is a day when you realize like your life has changed, things are different, and you suddenly step into this role as a caretaker or a caregiver for your parents, and you don't you might not even recognize it right away, right? But then when you have your little ones, it's just double time.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and you had asked about memory care, so that has been more recent. Um, my so my parents did live together in assisted living um from 2021 to 2024. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Um, and then just recently, um I was very averse to my mom going into memory care. So I put up a very, very long fight. Longer my sister maybe thought longer than I should have, but I really felt like the minute she went into memory care, she would decline um dramatically, and that did happen. Um it was kind of a dramatic case. She fell several, several times when she went into memory care, but she's in a wonderful place and she gets really great care. But it was a really, really, really heavy decision. And um, you know, we had to separate my parents, and they've been married since 1972.

SPEAKER_02

So your mom is they're in the same building, but your mom is on the memory care side and your dad's an assisted living side now.

SPEAKER_01

And yep, and after every meal, my dad goes to visit my mom. And it's really, really sweet. And they, you know, hold hands and then he just is like, Do you still love me? And I'm like, Dad, can you stop? Like, yes, she loves you. And then she kind of rolls her eyes because I feel like she like recognizes um, she's like, Oh yeah, he's crazy.

SPEAKER_02

But um there's a lot of that in my parents' building too, where one spouse might move in because the other one needs memory care, you know, or maybe they live in an apartment together for a while, then they have to be separated. That is a very common thing, I think, that happens. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Mm-hmm. And do you feel like your mom's decline, were you anticipating that because of separating from your dad, or just the facility and that type of environment wouldn't be as good for or both?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, that's a good question. I think um, I think when I recognized that my mom's decline during COVID had a lot to do with the fact that she was so isolated. Like my mom is such a social being, and I think like not interacting with as many people really affected her. Um I kind of felt the same way about memory care. It's like we all are a product of our environment. And I felt like the minute I took her away from my dad, which he was like her, you know, sign of normalcy and the way she always lived, and like they would have regular conversations and they would do all the same things. I felt like taking her away from him was like such a disruption of who she is and her routine. And I mean, my parents are such a unit, everyone knows them together as Dan and Barb. And who is she without him, right? Um, so I think those were some of like that's what was on my mind. I because I knew like once she went into memory care, I did a lot of tours of. Memory cares. And you can't help but sort of become part of your environment. And it's a lot of like what it really looks like. And a mo even if they're wonderful or if they're, you know, all the memory cares kind of look similar where it's people are all there's kind of like 10 wheelchairs, and it's mostly women, and they're kind of sitting in a circle and they're doing activities, you know, but a lot, there's not a ton of talking, or there's like a random woman yelling at somebody or everybody. Um, but there's, you know, there's so much beautiful care, and I mean, the patience that goes into like these people are literally, they fell, they are angels that fell from heaven that take care of my mother. I mean, it's just like the amount of patience and love and compassion and um that it takes. So I yes, and unfortunately with my mom, she did actually fall a couple of times when she got into my work here because she it was the same thing. Like, you know, she was used to my dad. If she woke up in the middle of the night, my dad would be there to be like, Barb, what are you doing? Come back to bed. He would get out and help her. But there was nobody there to do that, and she was confused and she was sad and she was like getting out of bed in the middle of the night and she fell. And so I think um those falls actually really kind of accelerated her Alzheimer's. Um, so it's been um middle of January. She uh uh stopped being able to address me, so she no longer really knows my name or my sister's name. I do believe she still knows who we are, but that was a very hard um there's so many there's so many chapters or moments of loss that come. Those are the things that come slowly. Um but so grief is like very strange when you have someone like a parent who's declining because it's like you say a very slow goodbye, you're like, well, today I said goodbye to my mom knowing my name. So that sucks. Yeah. But she's still in there though. She's still in there, and she does know I'm someone very special to her and my sister too, and my dad too. So we, you know, that's something we have. So, anyways, sorry.

SPEAKER_03

No, that's what that's what this is for. Someone's feeling that um same feeling and going through it. So I appreciate you sharing that. And such a hard thing to now. I mean, how do you are you visiting it the same cadence? I mean, what does that look like now, knowing that when you come, she's not gonna recognize?

SPEAKER_01

Well, I'm not proud of it. Like, it's funny you asked that because I was just feeling guilt today. Guilt is like a big part of our lives, I would say. It's very present. I mean, it always was like, I mean, I'm Jewish. I don't know, I was raised with it, but it's like I feel like part of the sandwich generation, part of being a caretaker is like the guilt stuff that it's nice to talk about because I realize like I'm not the only one. Like, we everyone feels it. Um but it's interesting because I definitely it's harder for me to like it's more important than ever for me to go be with my mom. But it is like every time before I do it now, it's like it's like I have to like get in the right mindset to do it, headspace, and I've chickened out sometimes when I'm just like that's okay. I don't think I can do it today.

SPEAKER_02

That's okay. Robin is incredible.

SPEAKER_03

Yes. I mean, oh my gosh, because I've listened, I had mentioned before, I'd listen to some of your guys' episodes of just all the things you guys have gone through. And I know that you have a sister who lives out of state, so I can kind of imagine her also feeling some of the guilt of not being as close, and you're the one person who's in state, which then maybe magnifies your guilt because you're the one who's there and so puts an extra burden on you. Um, but I do love how you guys have stayed together and close as sisters to be able to navigate it together. But I can anticipate that that's a rough one. That's one I I feel often because I'm out of state for my parents and my sister as well. And I just try to imagine, like, oh my gosh, like if I'm needed, how do I do this? I'm a state away. Like, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01

So you're both you and your sister live in a different place than your parents.

SPEAKER_03

My sister lives near my parents.

SPEAKER_01

Okay. Okay. Okay.

SPEAKER_03

So we're finding your situation, Robin. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I was really happy. Like, my sister is a very special person to me, and I feel like we are like in a very unique place more than we've ever been because we, you know, my mom, another thing we lost is our mom would call us every day, and I didn't always answer because I'm like, I'm busy, mom. Um, but my sister talked to her multiple times a day, and I realized like there is a huge absence in our lives now because of that. So I feel like I try to sort of, I think we're trying to fill that for each other, which is really beautiful. Um, but you know, it's not always easy. Like we fight, you know, and we do all the things, but it's been nice to like I was really happy she agreed to come on the podcast and be real about all that stuff because I think, and we're gonna actually have an episode on being an only because Elisa, I mean, it's challenging to have help, right? And it's challenging to sorry, it's challenging to have like siblings and maneuver that. I can't imagine being the only person. Like, especially when you have to make a hard decision. Elisa's like, well, let me talk to me. Uh, what do you think? Me? I don't know. Me. What do you think? Me.

SPEAKER_02

So they both have their, you know, yeah, advantages and disadvantages, I guess I would say. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

So when you're just so strong to get through this, having young kids and all these decisions. So I'm curious if there's anything that reflecting back now has helped you navigate it just on the emotional side because it's so heavy. I mean, not even to mention the logistical side of it, but is there any tools that you've seen help get through as you navigate everything?

SPEAKER_02

My therapist. No, it's um I think a way that my um the the burden of it or the hardness of it can show up for me um is is like irritability. Like I'll get irritable and kind of like shut down or get quiet or something like that. So uh sometimes there's just like so much that you're juggling at once that then I'm like resentful of that or something, you know. Um, but things that have helped, I mean, really are my therapist. Um but I think talking about it has been honestly a big gift because to otherwise it it's a topic that's so, like you said, complex and complicated that when we're going about our lives, it's like you don't want to be the person that every time you see your friends, they're like, How are you? And you're like, ugh, let me tell you about the hospital today. God damn. You know, it's just like you don't want to be that person. And then it's heavy. It is heavy, yeah. And then you don't want to be the person that feels like they're complaining all the time, or but then also when you pretend like everything is fine, that doesn't benefit you either. Yeah. Um, so I think that I've had to do a lot of work on like recognizing when I'm getting when things are getting to be too much or when I need to talk about it. Um, I mean, since we started our podcast, Robin and I's friendship as we were friends, but we didn't hang out all the time. And now we get to see each other all the time and talk about this. And it's amazing, right? Like and I sit in our lap, basically. Yeah. So that has been very therapeutic in excel in itself. But I think for listeners or people who are in this situation, finding people that you can have as like that outlet, like and may I think somebody gave this as a tip recently. Like finding a friend who you can be like, can you be my person when I need to talk? Like, maybe it's not even a therapist, and giving them full permission to be like, today is not a good day, call me tomorrow or something like that, right? But if there's someone who will just like listen, that is that's kind of enormous. I don't have any like magic app or you know programs that I've used. I've frankly done a lot of it myself, and that was if there's one thing that I think I've learned that I would do differently is to call professionals to help a little more because I like five years ago or six years, whatever, six years ago, when I kind of entered this space, like my parents were in a small town and they kind of had an elder care attorney they were working with. But I remember calling him and he was like, Oh, your parents are moving to the city. Uh, I don't know anything about that. Goodbye. Like he just like didn't like they tried to set me up for success in ways, like they tried to do their best, and no one was helpful. Like they had a horrible financial advisor, they had a horrible elder care attorney, they had a hor you know, and so I just kind of assumed and I did, I did like look for resources too, but I knew my parents' funds were limited. I knew I was starting to understand the cost of care where they were moving in assisted living. And I was kind of like, okay, well, it can't be that hard, right? And I just didn't know. And so if I had any advice, I would say what I have learned is to there are elder care attorneys who will help uh navigate all the legal, right? Like and get you set up with all the paperwork, whether that's like power of attorney, um, you know, set up all their like kind of end-of-life wishes, uh, just make sure that things are in order instead of going about it myself like I did, spend the money to get the help, right? Like even if you have limited amounts of money, that's gonna help you massively. And there's also attorneys in Elder Law who will help with medical assistance form, state assistance, help you help with a lot of that workload, um, where I just didn't think that that was an option, or I didn't think that we could afford it, right? So, and I think it was a little bit of both too. Like at the time when I was looking, I'm sure that there were attorneys' offices that could help with this, but I couldn't find any of them. And so, how like, and now Robin and I are in this, you know, caregiving space and have the podcast and we're talking about this more. And so we're connecting with more professionals who are very focused on elder care. And every time we speak to them, I'm like, I wish, I just I wish I knew that you were around. But I think that is a positive of where we're at in the world in 2026, is that people are talking about these resources more. They are putting elder care kind of at the front of what they offer, maybe in their law firms or their financial planning offices or things like that, right? And the earlier that families can talk about this stuff, the better. Um so, in terms of what's what helped me, I kind of have a wish list of like what I wish I had.

SPEAKER_03

This is the playbook that I give everyone else in the world. Yeah. Don't do it alone. Is there a place, a website, or any good resources that you would recommend that have all of those as like a library in one place, or is it more just they're out there and you gotta Google?

SPEAKER_01

We have some good organizations. She loves to talk about this.

SPEAKER_02

I do. I do. So there is a website called We Care Out Loud. It's either we careoutloud.com or careoutloud. It's called careoutloud.com.com. And that is a really great website because it's and it's gonna get better. Like they're really working on like a lot of improvements with it too. But even as it stands right now, it's a great resource because they understand that caregivers, and especially sandwich caregivers, have like five minutes of time. So they've kind of compiled a lot of like things that are on the internet to one place. And you can be like, you know, I am a caregiver, my parent has Alzheimer's, and I want to know how to have a conversation. And it will like prompt you all these resources. They also have like conversation starter cards, whether that is to talk about grief, whether it's to talk about moving, whether it's to talk about um you know, exactly, exactly. Like they have all of these prompts that are just like sometimes even just having the language as a tool of like how to start a conversation is a huge benefit. So I've really I've loved that website. They also have checklists um for like if you're trying to get your shit together or trying to get paperwork in order, they kind of have a checklist um that you can just download. It's all free. The entire website is free.

SPEAKER_01

Elisa does a lot of the show notes and everything, but we should probably have some of those all the organizations on our website. Do we have them?

SPEAKER_02

We don't yet. We have them in show notes. We don't have like a spot on our website. We should do that. Um but I'm listening to our podcast. That one, yeah. That one will come out actually on March 26th, season two will launch. And that our first episode, we actually talk about like getting your paperwork all together because that's something that like we also need to do again, right? And whether it's for yourself or your parents, um, but in that episode, I talk about it a little more, and then I I will have a link to that. But you can also link it in this episode, it's it's out there for everyone. But care out loud is really great. Um actually for Alzheimer's specifically, the Alzheimer's Association website is a wealth of knowledge. We have a whole episode on season one specifically about Alzheimer's. And you know, when you it's like you know that these websites have resources, but like who's actually going to them, right? And that recording that episode was a reminder of just how much effort they have put into making this easier for families and how much information and support is actually out there and available. Um, that's a big one. Uh there is an app called Iana Care, um, which stands for I Am Not Alone Care. And that uh is newer, it's a newer company, but it's been around for I mean a while now. We actually we also just um interviewed one of the owners or the co-owners, I think she is. Um, Jessica Kim is her name. And that app has a resource with a federal like a federal Medicaid program where um, and I believe it is also Alzheimer's specific. I'd have to look into it, but it's a program where like if you use their app and the um like it it just it links you with help. It links you with people who will help you. And that is a program that is free and funded by a federal Medicaid program. So it like, but people don't know about it yet, you know?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

So I feel like there's so many resources, um, but as like a very simple place to start We Care Out Loud is kind of I I love it. It's also a very fun website to be on. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. And I love the specific scripts to use and things to say because that is such, I think, the hard piece of just starting the conversation and why so many people don't. Yeah. Like, I don't know, Robin, with you, did you guys ever talk about future plans with your parents? Like, what do you guys want to do when you're older? You know, like was that conversation ever had?

SPEAKER_01

That I'm glad you asked that because I I remember for some reason we were in the I was in the car with my dad, and I remember my parents were like and they were sales reps, they were actually 1099s their whole life. They weren't W-2s. And um, which only matters because of like the way they like would save money or not save money, or the way they would have to like pay in for tax estimates and all this stuff. And I just remember thinking, like when my dad was like around 50 or 55, I somehow asked him, like, do you have retirement? And he like, we were at the gas station, and he like, oh, the car is like, don't worry about it. And I was like, I think that means no. Um, okay. And uh then I remember when things started to happen with my mom, like when we started to notice that she was having a hard time word finding, she was having a hard time sort of like finding her way around. You know, we were trying to figure out like, you know, what do we do? And I think it was, you know, my mom was very defensive. I did try to talk to her a couple of times about what was happening with her, and she was very defensive. She would she had sort of anticipated that she would get Alzheimer's. So she was, and she was a very proud, very capable woman. Like we all went to her for everything. So I think it was very difficult to have those early conversations. Also, going to the doctor with her was very difficult. Now, my chart wasn't what it is now, but like I didn't know any other way to communicate with the doctor about like, hey, uh, my mama's some problems mentally, but like I don't want to talk about it in front of her, but I was forced to. Um, and my that was very, very, those were very hard appointments and very hard days. Um, so now I feel and then just recently I was like, Dad, uh, do you have any plots? Do you have plots? Just wondering, just casually wondering, do you have plots? Um, and he's like, No. And I was like, Okay, okay, okay. Uh so no, I wouldn't say we're like the best example of we taught we do, we are able to talk through a lot as a family, but it's hard. It's really hard. Um, and I don't think, like, you just don't know until you know. And I I guess that's why I we all knew that my dad was not in good health. He wasn't taking care of himself. And we knew that my mom had some memory issues, but like, did we know that shit was gonna go south in like two seconds? No.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I really thought we just had more time. I really thought we had more time to figure that shit out. And I thought some fairy was gonna come along and be like, no, you're good, you know? Um, so I'm glad you asked that because we are the example of like how it didn't go well. But I will also say, um, one thing that has been really like a godsend for us is like my dad was very my parents very easily did surrender their finances and stuff like that. Like they my dad very easily was like, okay, here's the deal. Like, I can't online bank. I don't even know what you're talking about. I can't see my money anymore. And I can't really go to the bank. So he did sort of, he was able to like turn a lot over. We did have a hard time with power of attorney because he's like, I just want to know that I can go get Chinese every Wednesday without you breathing down my neck. You know, if I give you power of attorney, does that mean I can't do that anymore? And I'm like, no, dad, it doesn't mean that. You could still go get Chinese, okay? Um, so that was a little challenging to like sign over the power of attorney and go through like the medical directive. Um, but we were able to do those two things when my parents were both pretty sound of mind, which was really, really helpful. Power of attorney and medical directive. Sometimes they're different varying in states, but yeah, can you down a little more? Yes. So sometimes power of attorney can be both medical and financial. Basically, what I'm and here in Minnesota, it's like a little different, but basically what it means, power of attorney, um you you can have multiple people that have power of attorney, but it basically is saying like I can participate in making hard decisions for my parents, I can sign off on certain things, I can um both financial and legal. A lot of times, like for instance, when we were when I like now when I go to assisted living, if they they need me to sign something, they always say, Are you power of attorney? Um but my sister is also power of attorney. It's not, it's not just one person who can be it. And my dad is still power of attorney over my mom, and my mom is still power of attorney over my dad. Um, so that can get a little complicated when you're making group decisions. Um and then the medical directive is basically saying when I get close to like I'm nearing a possibility of no longer being able to be resuscitated or like I'm, you know, at the end of life and I could be resuscitated, what what is it going to look like? Do you want full resuscitation? You know, is can your body take actual, you know, heart machine um charges? Can you do you want just to be comfortable? Do you want to be resist resuscitated if you stop breathing? Um, that's part of the medical directive. And then the other part is like, who's going to make that decision when the time comes? You know, the person who is dying or the person who has the medical directives can say, like, this is what I want. But then the second part of that is like in that moment, who is gonna make those decisions? So that's kind of I did I say that right, you think?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, and sometimes uh like it I think a medical directive also is like if someone is uh just like incapacitated and in the hospital, um like maybe you know that they're gonna survive, but somebody needs to make decisions on their behalf. That's where like the medical directive would come in to play along with the power of attorney. Oftentimes they go hand in hand. Um, but power of attorney is More financial and legal and medical directive is overseeing like medical decisions.

SPEAKER_01

If your parents, you can see, are sort of like in a vulnerable place, or even if they are just totally healthy. Everyone should get it. I I feel like one of the best conversation stories that I wish I would have known or thought of or whatever is like, okay, everyone is okay. Um, just in case like something were to happen, or like we're just trying to get everything in order, trying to get everything organized. Could we like, because we care about you so much, could we like go together to the lawyer, to your lawyer and talk through this and get some of these things in order just so that we have them in order when the time comes and everyone is healthy?

SPEAKER_02

I mean, how you were just saying you're like, I'm not in this situation. My parents are both healthy, like they're great. That is the perfect time to get even like the basics of estate planning or or forms like power of attorney or um which sometimes the will your living will cover some of that.

SPEAKER_03

I'm maybe I'm mixing that up, or maybe that's a state specific.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, no, the medical directive, that is another word for another term for it is the living will. A lot of people call it that. Yes.

SPEAKER_02

And that's the thing. There's a lot of terminology that means like the same thing, but they're called different things in different places or in different states, or yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Still can't fucking the Medicare Medicaid thing, fuck you. I don't fucking know. I don't fucking. I'm like, I don't fucking know. Okay. The one with the heart, the one with the I don't fucking know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

I know which, like, okay. So what other hot tips do you guys have on the financial side, the actual logistics of it? I mean, it sounds like you took over then your parents' finances. Like, what did that process look like? Was it easy? What do you have to overcome?

SPEAKER_01

Well, yeah, how much longer do you have no, like we were actually just talking about this. I I just listened to our first episode, which I love, um, about getting your shit together because it is, it's like called the Great Gathering. And um, the idea is like, hey, mom, dad, can I like, you know, just so we we can get organized and if something happens, same kind of thing. Like, would you be like, where are your passwords? Like, how do you get like, where's your file cabinet of like where you keep all of your banking information or your your financial assets? You know, like I, when me and my sister took over, yes, we were lucky because my dad had had a stroke and he was willing to, I mean, he couldn't really help it. He was like, I had a stroke, here you go. Um, but it was like we started a Google sheet, basically, me and my sister, and we basically like went through all the mail. We like went to their house, got all their mail, opened up all their bills, and then literally started like a spreadsheet of like, okay, here are all the bills, here's all the balances, this is what they pay monthly, this is what their expenses are. Because they, my parents, your parents might not necessarily have that. Sometimes you have organized parents that do, but my parents didn't. Also, like we have to create online accounts for everything, and then we have all the list of passwords, and then it's passed this whole spreadsheet is password protected. Then that spreadsheet started to have things like we keep their social security numbers on hand because you need those all the time. Um, we need to know, like, their Elisa has a hack for like keeping a picture of their IDs and their insurance cards in her phone so that like at the ready and their medication list at the ready. So that like when she isn't this sexy stuff, aren't she like, whoa, sexy? Um, but these, yeah, this is that Google sheet really saved me and my sister. We still use it today. Like, we still refer to it when we're trying to figure out like what's going on with mom and dad. How do we get into their iPad? How do we get into their phone? How do we get into their ATT? You know?

SPEAKER_02

Especially since everything is like becoming like a fingerprint or a facial recognition thing. Like if you have someone in the hospital and you need to log into their, you know, my chart that's on their iPad that needs their fingerprint and they're not available at the moment because they're in the hospital, like then you need, you know, you need to figure out ways around that. There there is a lot of logistics involved in the in the caregiving side of it. It's not just like the physical, you know, taking them to doctor's appointments or bathing them or things like that, which are all things that also need to happen sometimes, even if they are an assisted living, right?

SPEAKER_03

And so buying toilet paper, it sounds like.

SPEAKER_02

Yes, yes, exactly. There's just like a mental load that comes with this specific place in life that like, you know, when you have kids, everyone's like there to support you. They're all really happy and excited for you and like willing to bring over dinner and you know, all this stuff. And we talked many times on the podcast about how like when you're in this sandwiched place in life, it's sort of similar where like you don't know what to do, and you're not thinking about it until that day shows up, and then you're like, Oh, whoa, my life just changed, right? And there's not a lot of people setting up a meal train to like bring you dinner when you're like in the thick of it. So you're juggling like your normal life, and then you're juggling their needs, and both with kids and aging parents, like everyone's needs are changing constantly, right?

SPEAKER_01

Like nothing stays and like my dad will call me and be like, uh, how much do I have on my bank account? Because I want to take these people to dinner. And I'm like, uh one second. Like that's weird. He can't get in. So like I'm driving right now.

SPEAKER_03

Oh my gosh, I can't imagine that mental tax because already you guys are right, moms. I'm already thinking about, okay, this summer, what camps do I need to sign them up for? What needs to happen here? Like, just the mental to-do list is wildly long already. So throw in two more people where you have to do that same thing, which I just keep going back to this toilet paper thing, but this is blowing my mind because it's like the fact that that is one more checklist item is like so significant and telling of just the a million things that you guys need to do then. And is it just because you're trying to save money in all these areas and they're gonna charge you extra for toilet paper? Or where does that come from?

SPEAKER_02

No, it's not provided.

SPEAKER_03

Like it's not something that's provided of what you have to provide from a supply perspective.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. So like there's there's a lot of things that, you know, you you and again, this is sort of one of the things where you move into assisted living and you're like, oh, things are just taken care of for me. It's a resort. There's yeah, but it's not a resort. It's like on one hand, it's like there's housekeeping, but depending on it, they only come like once a week for like 15 minutes, you know, so it's like, or a half hour or something like that. It's a very brief cleaning, right? So like if But you need to provide like you I we have to have a broom.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Like it's like your, yeah. I mean, they're responsible for, you know, like any of the household goods that you have at your house, right? Like your shampoo, all your hygiene stuff, your over-the-counter things, um, toilet paper, paper towels, dishwasher detergent, like you know, laundry detergent, all these things are out of pocket. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So, um, you know, we live in a world where things can be automated, right, and delivered, but that also comes at a cost. And it's a funny place to be because it's like you know, my parents don't need like laundry detergent every month necessarily, but then some months they do. Or I think for my parents it's actually more um my dad has type 2 diabetes, and so while they get three meals a day on their meal plan through assisted living, his blood sugar needs like more regulation through yeah, healthy sources of food, then she's like, I know about this. Yeah, that you know, so like if his if his app and his like uh glucose monitor like wakes him up in the middle of the night and he's really low, then he needs to eat something. Well, my parents aren't medical assistants, so they live off of$120 a month, and we all know the cost of groceries. And so even to get simple things like a loaf of bread, some deli meat, some cheese, something that could be like a healthy-ish snack in the middle of the night to help his blood sugars, like we're paying for that out of pocket, right? That's not anything that like the kitchen would give them because they've legally provided them three meals a day already. But even though that goes along with his health care, it's like that's still on us. So it's little things like that. So I usually do a grocery delivery. My parents are doing their best to they take their little like rascal scooters over. There's a grocery store across the street from their assisted living, so they go on like little joy rides when they're feeling good over to because they also want to. Like they want to get out, they want to feel like they're doing something normal again, right? Um, but uh but that's not uh an option all the time for them either. You know, on a bad day, that's not that's not an option. Um so it's things like that. It's like we we supply their toilet paper and bring it there because I'm already instacarting groceries over, right? Or maybe we have mail to bring over, or there's so much paperwork too. So like on Friday, I'm like, yep, you have some important mail that needs to be delivered, and I need some tax information, and I'm gonna do a toilet paper delivery because I still have to do their taxes, right? Like me too. I don't gotta do their taxes.

SPEAKER_01

I know that's crazy when you do your parents' taxes. Oh wow.

SPEAKER_02

But you know, like they're they're trying to make it work the best they can, but it's also like$120 a month does not go far at all for like groceries, let alone like if they want to go to the movies, which I haven't done in so long, right? Or like if they I mean that was one of the big reasons why my dad had to also stop driving was because they could not afford the insurance or the maintenance on their van anymore. It was also time. So it was time.

SPEAKER_03

But like covtailed wow.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, exactly. Um, but it like, you know, it wasn't sustainable for them to have a vehicle while all medical assistants because of the expense of it, you know. Um so there's just so many little things. Haircuts. Yeah. Like things like haircuts are not provided. Yeah. Um, also any over-the-counter products. When my parents my parents are on medical assistants, said that a million times, but like there are programs where like quarterly they're given like let's say$150 for any like over-the-counter products. So that can cover laundry detergent, shampoo, conditioner, you know, a lot of like hygiene over-the-counter stuff. Otherwise, that would be coming out of pocket that's not provided by assisted living, right? And so we've had to like opt into these programs, which are also so confusing, you know.

SPEAKER_03

Um, it's like it's great that they're there, but it's not and are they through the assisted living programs, or is this a separate?

SPEAKER_02

No, it's like separately through their insurance. So it's it's weird. It's like they're on medical assistance and then they have a Blue Cross, Blue Shield, like supplemental health care plan that they through the state now that they also pay into that comes out of their social security. And then the over-the-counter program is like through Blue Cross somehow, but only because they're on this other waiver program. Are you guys still with us?

SPEAKER_00

Oh, it's like, yeah, it's a big web of like yeah, it's assistant. Yeah, you know, yeah. It's yeah, yuck. Yuck. Yuck, yuck, yuck. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_03

Well, I know you ladies are so busy. We're just talking when we first started of how it's amazing that you guys started a podcast to talk more about this topic while still having kids. We didn't even touch on kids because who would have thought that the kids were the easier part of this situation? Yeah. They're along for the ride.

SPEAKER_01

Like literally along for the ride. Yeah. Yeah. My daughter was pushing, my daughter just turned she was three, I guess. She just turned four. And she was like, We take them a lot to go visit Baba and Grandpa. And she was like, I want to push Baba. So sh I was like, okay. So she was like pushing her wheelchair like into the wall. And I think the pup the staff was kind of like, Are you gonna let your daughter ram your mom into the wall? But I was kind of like, Well, yeah, I mean I was like, be careful, honey. But she was like, I am being careful. And I was like, okay, but it's also a beautiful moment, you know? Just don't ram her into yeah, but it's like, you know, this is life.

SPEAKER_02

Florence loves to go on um like scooter rides, so they're mobile scooters again. My mom uses a walker, my dad is kind of half walker, half cane sometimes, but they both have mobile scooters, and so she loves to go on a ride like down the hallways of assisted living. Like I think she thinks it's like a park ride or something like that.

SPEAKER_03

I love that. You gotta find the fun and joy in what you can. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02

That's right. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03

And I am wondering before we go though, is there anything else from some of the deepest lessons you've learned that you want to share before we leave? Because I just I love your guys' wisdom and experience. And if there's anything else from just that knowledge and experience side that we haven't covered, if there's anything that comes to mind.

SPEAKER_02

I I mean, I think I'm actively trying to practice what I preach when I say this. Um, but asking for help, hiring professionals instead of going at it alone, because again, we have learned there are actually so many resources out there. You don't have to do it all yourself. It is worth the cost or the money.

SPEAKER_01

Um radical acceptance. Radical acceptance. I learned this from Elisa and I like think about it all the time. Even sitting here while we were talking about everything, I like started to get anxiety about all the stuff I haven't done. I'm like, I'm recording a podcast, but I should be doing my parents' taxes. But um, but it's like, you know, my house is a mess. Yesterday everything was on fire. Everything. Everywhere I looked, I was like, the my I've had my child hasn't brushed his hair or his teeth, I don't think, in 48 hours, and everything is a mess, and there's macaroni on the floor, and we're gonna have macaroni again. And um I haven't done my parents' taxes and blah blah blah. And I just have to breathe and accept the mess and radical acceptance for the moment I am in. And that is like one of the best tips I feel like I've gotten out of this is like, yeah, this is it, and it's okay. And I'm gonna get my shit together, but maybe not.

SPEAKER_02

Like some days it's just like that's enough. That's all we can do. And oftentimes, especially like Robin and I both own our own businesses, and so we're used to like functioning on this level as well. Yeah, but also we're like very self-motivated, we are determined, we are, you know, we know how to build things, we know how to feel it all together. Yeah. And lose. And there's not in this situation. Like, it's like you have kids and you're like, okay, I guess I'm really learning how to be flexible. And like really learn, but then this place in life, you're just like, okay, well, everything's a sh show, and that's enough for today, gang. Yeah, that's it.

SPEAKER_01

That's it, you know. Also, I know that you work out, right? Obviously, that's like and I have started, so this is just I don't know what if it's a tip or not, but I do think this has changed my life because of everything that happened with my parents. I started to do a deep dive into what happened to their both of their health, and like what does that mean for me? Because I had my kids in my 40s, my mom declined starting at 65. So that means I don't have a lot of time here. Like, I gotta make this last, this whole thing last. And so my mom also suffered from osteoporosis. Um, so I started lifting, um, heavy lifting, you know, with the like with the dumbbells, the weight, the weight in the gym close to failure type of thing, you know what I'm saying? And I have learned to say to my husband, I need to go work out today for my brain so that I can preserve this shit for our kids. I need to go. Can you please? Are you okay? Can I go? It's I have to prioritize this because I gotta make this shit last. And so that has been huge for me. One, to know how to ask for that and to know that it's okay to ask for that. And two, just doing it, I feel amazing. Like sometimes I even feel hot.

SPEAKER_02

Nice. I'm on the opposite end of that boat where I'm like, okay, I I am I also feel the need to do that and to preserve this bod. Um, and one year postpartum, I'm like, okay, I'm here with a one-year-old again. I'm radical acceptance. The radical acceptance is real because while I would like to get to the gym three times a week, maybe I'm on just our Peloton at home once a week. And that's all like that's all I got, right? And I have to, I have to remember that we have a six-year-old and a one-year-old because that is in it. That expectation is different, right? Like when she'll they'll be three and eight or whatever, you know, like it's but every part about where you're at, it's like the getting out in the sun, deep breathing, drinking water, which all these sound really boring, right? And like self-care tips, but like fuck if they're not true. Can go to sleep.

SPEAKER_03

Amen.

SPEAKER_02

I mean, you know, yeah, it that all matters.

SPEAKER_03

Is all we all really need in life, I think. I know sleep, son, tell me I'm pretty, and we're good.

SPEAKER_01

Yes, yes, done. Done. It's all we need. You're pretty, and you're pretty.

SPEAKER_03

I love words of affirmation. It's my love language.

SPEAKER_01

We all need it. We all need it.

SPEAKER_03

But Robin, I love your reflection of just it's that crazy generational pull of, oh my gosh, I can see with my parents, and then therefore, what my kids' lives could look like when they're 25 or 30. And I want them hopefully to be in a little bit better place than I am right now. And you're doing something to try to, you know, get to that place as well, not just for yourself, but them, which I love.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Every generation like kind of did has or does that, right? Like every generation wants things to be like a little better than they had. But in our generation, the space that we're in now, like the fact that our children are are probably being raised with a little more emotional awareness, uh, you know, than our parents had. Maybe like physical and um just like the the importance of like overall wellness rather than being so focused on like a body image or yeah, us in the 90s and the shit that we heard versus Exactly.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly. Yeah. And my mom, you know, I think a lot about my mom, who is my big love in my life. And besides, I love my husband and my children, but she is, I think right now, kind of she's the love of my life. In a lot of a lot of ways. And um, so much praise for her. But like the other thing is I she never slept. She, everything was for me and my sister and my dad. And for a long time I thought that's how I need to lead my life. I need to think when I become a woman, it's gonna be about like I'm selfless and I just give to others and I don't even need to sleep. I'm just gonna like, that's what I'm gonna do because that's what she did. And I and she modeled that, and there were so many beautiful things about her modeling that, but also I was like, but I want her now, and I don't have her now, and I don't know exactly if that's why she also never ate a vegetable, but like I do feel like if I could go back and tell her, like, if you just sleep a little more and if you just prioritize, if you walk or if you lift weights, or if you take care of yourself, like we're not gonna hold that against you, like, because we're gonna get you longer.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And that has given me so much clarity and purpose in my life that I did not expect. That is a silver lining out of all of this. So I think about that a lot.

SPEAKER_02

One last thing that I just thought of too, as like a tip. This is something that I've been reflecting on a lot as I've been editing our season two of our podcast, is that there's kind of this common theme that our culture in America right now is so productivity focused. Like we all feel like we should, you know, like our self-worth is tied to like how much we get done each day, which I think is if you're in the sandwich generation, like yes, we're we're here being like fuck it, radical acceptance, but also there's so much to do that you always feel like you're not doing enough in a weird way. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and that I'm sure is absolutely tied to that kind of like productivity culture, but we need to kind of like collectively chill the fuck out and like recognize that wellness and sleep and like taking care of ourselves. I'm not talking about the annoying self care on the internet, right?

SPEAKER_03

But like I know that rubs me the wrong way too. I'm like, okay.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, like enough, enough with like the Instagram ads. Like, I just can't, but there is truth that like if somebody needs to leave their job to be a caregiver during the time that they're sandwiched, that's not a Failure, that's actually like such courage. And in that, maybe they have a little bit more time to take care of themselves, which you're right, makes them pro their odds probably better of staying around longer, you know? Like there's there's like a culture shift that I think has to happen. And as I say that, I mean, I gotta find my own way in that too. Like that's that's some like self-reflection that I'm doing because it's um yeah, it's I I feel like the idea that like you're successful because of how your business is or because of your job or your title and like how much you can juggle it all. Is that actually healthy? Does that like I don't know that that serves us very well, especially when you're sandwiched? So I don't know.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, that is a benchmark of happiness is not proving to be accurate for sure. Correct. It's the relationships, family, friends, you know, how do we just get a different measurement benchmark here of what really matters?

SPEAKER_02

Yes. And that's one of my hopes in like when we're talking about generations. What I hope to like pass down to my p kids is like, you know, really great um knowledge about like our food system and how to nourish your body and how to move your body and like strength train it. And also like your self-worth is not doesn't need to be performative, right? It is the people around us and caring for those around us. And we talk about modeling. I mean, that's something that Robin and I are are we, I think can we're not perfect at it, but we can hang our hats on that every day that our kids are seeing us like actively love and actively care for family members in our life. And a lot of families do this. They live multi-generationally, right? We just don't hear about it enough in America. You know, it is kind of like ship them off to assisted living. And, you know, our parents both have things that their cares are beyond what we could give them at home, right? Which is why we made those decisions. But so many people choose to have their loved ones live and be caregivers inside the home while working and while raising their kids. And like that's that's a whole different level, too, you know?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I love that. Oh, ladies, thank you so much for coming on.

SPEAKER_02

Thank you so much, Erin. Thanks for asking us. We'll come back and talk your up anytime.

SPEAKER_03

Thanks for listening to another episode of Find Your Fuel. If you enjoyed the show and want to support us, please leave a comment or review. And before we go, I have to give you the obligatory medical and legal disclaimer. This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only. The advice and recommendations we discuss are not intended as medical advice and do not replace the treatment or care of a physician or any other primary health care provider. Using the information shared today does not create a doctor-patient relationship and it should not be used to diagnose or treat any health problem. Always consult with a qualified healthcare professional before making changes to your diet, exercise routine, or medications. The use of any information provided is solely at your own risk. So, in a nutshell, let's be smart and remember these stories and conversations are for educational purposes only. Help other women find the fuel to live their best lives. We'll see you in the next episode.