Brain Health and the Power of Representation with Dr. Rupa Juthani

In this episode, we sit down with Dr. Rupa Juthani, a board-certified neurosurgeon and one of only approximately 220 female neurosurgeons in the United States. Dr. Juthani provides a candid look at the physical and emotional toll of neurosurgery training, the challenges of becoming a mother during her chief residency, and the importance of female representation in specialized medical fields.

We also dive into the foundations of brain health and longevity, and the non-negotiables Dr. Juthani holds for herself and her family. From the benefits of proper nutrition and strength training to the link between hearing loss and dementia, she offers actionable advice for maintaining cognitive resilience.

Resources from this episode can be found at: https://www.fuelwitherin.com/podcast/v/peppec2rpcd5gxlz3xmye7e7hy2nmb 

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Disclaimer: The information provided in this podcast and its show notes is for informational and educational purposes only. It is not intended as medical advice or as a substitute for the advice of a physician or other healthcare professional. Using this information does not create a doctor-patient relationship.

Do not use this information to diagnose or treat any health problem or to prescribe any medication or treatment. Always consult with a qualified healthcare professional before making changes to your diet, exercise routine, or medications, or before starting any herbal or nutritional supplements. Statements regarding dietary supplements have not been evaluated by the FDA and are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. The use of any information provided is solely at your own risk. This disclaimer also applies to any of the guests on the podcast.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Some people have genetic drivers of hearing loss. You know, you go to a concert, there's no excuse to be going to a concert and not putting earplugs in. You know, I have these cute little like jewelry earplugs that I wear anytime I go to a concert, or even if I'm gonna be in a big public space that's allowed, because it's really, really important to protect your hearing, protect it like it's your brain, because it is. Hearing loss has been strongly correlated with dementia. It's, you know, what because basically what happens is as you stop hearing people, as you lose your hearing, you're now no longer getting these really powerful auditory cues that are driving these brain language activation areas. Like language is such a complicated thing. It's such a, you know, incredibly dynamic process that you're really depriving your brain of that.

SPEAKER_00 0:54

Hello, and welcome to another episode of Find Your Fuel. I'm your host, Erin Martin, and today we're diving into what it means to overcome obstacles and push the boundaries of both health and high-stakes careers. I'm honored to introduce our guest, Dr. Rupa Jutani, who's a board-certified neurosurgeon who specializes in the complex world of brain tumors. She is one of only 220 female neurosurgeons in the entire US. So today we step behind the scrub suit to discuss her career, navigating life as a mom of two, and I also pick her brain on the non-negotiables that she keeps for herself and for her family's health. If you're looking for some inspiration on how to uplevel your professional and personal game, then today's conversation is for you.

SPEAKER_02 1:44

I was born and raised originally in Arizona, and then I moved to the DC area when I was about 10. And I, you know, my dad was a doctor, he was a psychiatrist, my mom was a stay-at-home mom to three kids and was incredible. Um, but really from an early age, I always wanted to go into medicine, and I'm the only one of my siblings who did, but it was just something that always resonated with me. I used to go and around with my dad, and I sort of just loved the idea of taking care of patients and um being part of that world. So when I went through school, I had like a very strong affinity for science and I loved it. And I went to this science and tech high school that just really nurtured all of my interests. And then I majored in neuroscience in college and I was totally sold on medicine and on the brain. And then getting to medical school, you know, I think from maybe one of the first days I was there, I started shadowing a neurosurgeon. And the first brain surgery I saw, I was completely floored. You know, the ability to enact instant change in someone's behavior, in their functioning, their ability to just, you know, move through this world was just so phenomenal to me that I knew I wanted to do it. So I everything I did throughout medical school was really to get me to that place, um, you know, through this difficult residency. And then I went to residency, uh, so I went to undergrad at Duke and then medical school at the University of Virginia, and then I did my residency at the Cleveland Clinic, uh, which was an incredible place to train. So I spent my residency there. And then I decided I wanted to do oncology. So I specialized at memorial slone catering in neurosurgical oncology. And then I later joined as faculty at Wow Cornell, where I really began to develop more of that niche of oncology and what we call skull base, which we can talk about a little bit. But basically, you know, most of what I do focuses on brain tumors and on conditions that affect the brain and the nerves. So then I, you know, start early in your career, you sort of define who you are. And, you know, that was like an amazing first job. And then I realized I wanted, you know, a little bit of a different flavor and a little more independence. And I joined this practice, neurosurgeons of New Jersey, and we're affiliated with NYU. And it's uh really just been an incredible experience these past almost four years now that I've been there. And that's that's really when I think you get to this point in as a neurosurgeon, where it is it's like a delayed adulthood, you know, you you're a you're resident until you're like 32 years old. And so here I am, and I'm 41 now. Um, embarrassingly enough, I'm 41. And now is when, you know, you really start to realize who you are and to sort of build the life for yourself that you always envisioned. So that's kind of where I'm at. You know, along the way, I was lucky enough to meet my husband when I was in medical school, and we were long distance my whole residency. And then um we had my first child when I was a chief resident, and we had my second child about five years after that, because it took me about five years to recover from how difficult it was to be a resident and a junior attending with a baby. Um, but you know, now I'm so blessed to have these two beautiful children and a husband and a career that I love. So that's kind of my journey.

SPEAKER_00 5:10

I can't even imagine. And I was wondering, is there, I think I read somewhere that you're one of 220 female neurosurgeons in the US? Is that correct?

SPEAKER_02 5:20

Yeah, that's right. So, you know, board certification means that you have gone through residency, and then after you go through residency, you have to accumulate a certain number of cases and then present those cases and show that, you know, you meet the rigors of what it takes to be board certified. And so that process can take three to five years. So there are, as of the last count, there are about 220 board certified female neurosurgeons in the country, which is wild. How many neurosurgeons total are there? About 4,000. Oh, 4,000, yes. Yeah. Yeah. 4,000 total. There's about, yeah, there's yeah, a rough closer to like 2,000, you know, 2,500 or so board-certified neurosurgeons. So that number equates to some fluctuation between seven and 10% representation.

SPEAKER_00 6:08

Yes. And so I'm curious, throughout that career journey then, what was the biggest hurdles that you ran into? I mean, my brain goes crazy with the 80 million, just anyone who's in the medical field. I thank you. And you guys are angels sent from heaven above. So appreciate everything you guys are doing. But throughout that, it seems like you were pretty determined and set on everything. But what popped up as some of the biggest things that you had to overcome?

SPEAKER_02 6:34

I mean, you know, neurosurgy residency is it's it's like I've never been to war, but it is it's an experience that in many ways shapes you and is similarly formative. You know, you're going through it with a very small group of people that you have to depend on and trust implicitly, um, and you form very strong connections, uh, but it's also incredibly demanding and relentless. And there's no break. You know, you just don't get to recover during that period of time. And so that process really shapes who you are and it it defines your ability to get through the specialty and to practice in that way. And a lot of people are will ask, you know, does it have to be that way? You know, yes and no, you know, to some extent it's a really intense specialty and it has to be sort of an intense training. But by the same token, you know, could we make more accommodations to make it healthier for residents? Yes, absolutely. And so I I trained at a time where it was not particularly healthy. Um, but it trained me, you know, incredibly well. Um, but that, you know, just the just the physical and emotional and mental toll of being a neurosurgery resident was a lot to overcome. But also I think I didn't understand the value of of mentorship. I always had a lot of really great male mentors, but there just weren't really any women that I worked with. And so I it never occurred to me that I needed to see that, to see what that might look like and how to navigate it. So, you know, when I went through, like no, there had been two women before me, but no one had gone through childbirth, you know, as a resident, which was it, whereas like all of the male residents had had kids and they never, you know, they took like a couple weeks off. Um, and so that had never happened. And, you know, just getting the courage to talk to my program director about it and really to plan it down to the T, you know, there's just a lot of pressure around that. But I was so, they were so supportive and I took virtually no time off. But that was really my that was on me because of my own pressure on myself. But I think what I loved about that was that after that, you know, both the female residents the year below me had children during residency. So that sort of spoke to like the power of representation and the power of example and you know, something that I really hope to give to the next generation, which is kind of what part of why I really delved into the space is to just be, you know, when there are so few of us, like you have to amplify those voices, right? Because you you may not find them, you may not find them in your community, you may not have them, you may not even know they exist. So it becomes particularly important to find those voices and to, you know, make them reach a much larger audience than otherwise they would.

SPEAKER_00 9:20

Oh, I love it. And so I'm curious, what did your maternity leave look like then? What did you structure it like? And then how did you even make that possible?

SPEAKER_02 9:28

Well, so you know, in your residency, there there are there are different models, but most residencies have one to two years built-in of research. And some people, you know, forego those years and do clinical work. I was at Sloan Kettering during that time doing like lab research. And so I was like, that this is the time. This is the time where I can be pregnant and this can make sense for me. Um, so I fortunately was on my research. I still had some clinical responsibilities. So I was still operating and doing things like that, but I had a lot more flexibility in my schedule than I would have during residency, for example. Um, but then when I had my child, I I took literally four weeks off after a C section and I was, you know, back to working. And I became a chief resident when my son was three months old, you know, so he's still nursing and I was navigating that. And it was, you know, a learning experience for all of us. But but it was, you know, and then I was alone with him actually, because my husband was in New York. I was in Cleveland. So I was like this single mom effectively during the week of this newborn and a chief resident working like a hundred hours a week. So it was crazy.

SPEAKER_00 10:42

Yes. And then I'm curious too on the you mentioned some other things in place that can make it a little bit mental and physical better place uh from that health perspective for residents and doctors. And I'm also curious what ideas you have. Are there anything that has been implemented in terms of like cutting hours so you can actually get sleep? Or what other ideas do you have on that front?

SPEAKER_02 11:05

You know, around the time I started residencies when we instituted this 80-hour work week, you know, which that that was like unheard of. So 80-hour work week came down and you know, the surgical residencies kind of struggled with it. Neurosurgery had an 88 exception because there was just too much to learn. And so we had this exception where you could do 88 hours, but you know, it's not so it's not so um fixed because it has to average 88 per week. So that means like you could go a week at 100 and then you could, you know, go the next week at 78, and you know, you end up balancing it out. Um, but that means that you have some really brutal weeks. And then there are other things in place, you know, you like you have to have this amount of time off. But that, you know, the interesting thing about it is we have that to some extent of residency, but when you're an attending like me, you don't, there's no work hours. You know, I could be on for uh on call for a week at a time and that could be really quiet and leisurely, or that could be really intense, and I could be operating every day and all night. And you sort of have to learn how to train your body, and you also have to learn how to know your limits. And you know, part you really don't know that unless to some extent you experience the the physical and mental stress of that in a safe setting. You know, residency is a very safe setting because you have so many people that you can depend on, right? If you're if you've gone over your hours and you're too fatigued, we you have a whole team working with you. You know, when you're an attending, yet you do have support, but it's really on you. The onus is on you to know when to stop. It's not someone tapping you on the shoulder saying, hey, you're over your hours, you got to go home. You know, no one's telling you that. So so it's it's I think it's that maturity is really, really important and knowing your limits is critical. And people ask all the time, they're like, isn't it unsafe? And, you know, I assure you, it's not unsafe because it is part of our training. And, you know, we would never put a patient at risk due to fatigue. That's sort of why we train the way we do, so that we know exactly how much is too much and what we can handle.

SPEAKER_00 13:15

Yeah. What are those signs for you then, too?

SPEAKER_02 13:17

Yeah, like I think for me, it's like irritability, you know, like you know, when when you're stressed, it's not like you can't think or can't function, but it's like, you know, your fuse is a little shorter. And maybe you're, you know, a little bit shorter with the people that you're working with when you don't want to be or you don't mean to be, you know, just because you have a little less patience. And so, you know, whenever I feel myself getting a little snappy, I'm like, all right, maybe, maybe it's time I need to take a little rest. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:44

Which is such a good personal tip, too. Oh, yeah. Like if we were only just trained in our personal life of when we need to actually slow down. A hundred percent. We could use that.

SPEAKER_02 13:55

I think about it with my kids all the time because like kids, you know, they have like so little reserve. It's like my daughter's like the sweetest angel. And so I know when she's not being sweet, it's like she's either hungry or tired. And, you know, I've failed a basic physical need of hers. And children are actually so good at recognizing that. And I think adults are not, and we tend not to be. We somehow lose the ability to recognize that we have human limits.

SPEAKER_00 14:19

So yes. And so I'm curious what your life looks like now as a mom of two, working at the extreme level of working. You know, I'm also a working mom, but you're definitely a little next level compared to what schedule shifting I have to do. I'm sure you don't have an average week, but if you had one week to share, what does it look like from your end? Because I've also seen you sneak, you know, workouts in, yeah, you're spending time with kids. Like it seems like you're doing it all.

SPEAKER_02 14:50

Doing it, but but I think that, you know, it's kind of comes back to like similarly that that work hour, right? Where it's like it's on the balance. And there's some weeks that I don't get any of that, right? There's some weeks that are disproportionately imbalanced where all I'm doing is operating and working and meeting, and I may not see my kids very much that week, and I may not get to work out that week. But then, you know, maybe the next week I have time to breathe and I'm going to the gym and I'm taking my kid, you know, picking my kids up. And so it's, I think having that mental flexibility to say, okay, I don't have time right now. But that doesn't mean that you'll never have time. And it doesn't mean that it's not valuable when you do. It's that you build structures in your life to accommodate that kind of randomness in your schedule, right? And so, you know, my life is very much or family life is very much not built around me in many ways, right? In terms of dependability. Nobody's depending on me to drop off. No one's depending on me to pick up or to make the meals or to do any of those things. But when I can, I do and I love it. It's just that I have systems in place so that the world kind of functions without me.

SPEAKER_00 16:12

Yes, so good. Yeah. And I think that um that ebb and flow, I also personally love in that it pulls me out of the rigidity of I'm also a little type A. I wouldn't say I'm completely, but there's I love trailer, I love process. And so when something doesn't happen the day that I want it to happen, it's taken a lot of practice to say, like, okay, it's fine to ebb and flow. This week, right? I'll do everything every day and nail it. And then other weeks that's not gonna happen, and it's okay. And take that pressure off of forcing yourself to always be doing something because it's just not possible to always not possible.

SPEAKER_02 16:51

Yeah. I love that. Yeah, and I think that, you know, that's part of also just being kind to yourself, you know. It's like you were you're not perfect and you don't have to be, you know, just because I can't work out seven days a week doesn't mean that the two days I get are not good enough, you know. Whatever it's it's like the best you can do, like all you can do for any of this is to do your best and to try and to set your goals. But I I try to really set myself up to succeed, not to fail. So, like one of those things is like, if I make it home for bedtime, that's a win. And maybe I don't, but if I said I need to make it home for dinner, I would fail a lot more times than I would succeed.

SPEAKER_01 17:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:39

And so that's sort of how I I build things, you know. And so then, like if I'm doing a surgery and, you know, I'm getting an emergency, you know, once I pass the point where I'm gonna make it home for bedtime, I'm like, it is what it is. Like I'm not stressed. You know, there's no I'm not, you know, that I put things in buckets of of periods of time in my life. And so I that helps me a lot. Um, and I also am so lucky to have, you know, a husband that is so supportive and understands like he's a doctor too, he's a surgeon, he's an ophthalmologist, but his schedule's a lot more predictable than mine, even though his hours are pretty long. So, you know, that he creates that routine for our kids that I can't always give them. So yeah, I love that.

SPEAKER_00 18:24

And I love the freedom that comes with what you were saying about building a system. Right. Because I think oftentimes we want to spend as much time as we can with our kids. We like love our kids. We want to spend as much time with them. Although I love going to work too. I'm not gonna say I'm not gonna lie.

SPEAKER_02 18:40

I was that's part of what makes you a good mom, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_00 18:43

I was ready to go back to work after paternity leave. I was not like, keep me here. I wanted to go back. But I think building in those systems, like you were saying, where you need support proactively is awesome, whether it's a mother-in-law, an opair if you have the resources. I mean, there's so many other things where you could build in a cheap date night if there's, you know, something available at the community center, you know, on Friday night. So you could build in these things proactively to be able to have them as a tool and then not use them if you don't want to, but it gives you that kind of freedom. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 19:19

Oh, that's really nice. No, it's nice to hear. And I think that it this probably resonates a across specialties, right? Across what you do, different careers. No matter what career you have, there's you're going to have to have different things in place to be able to achieve your goals, you know. And I think we can all that's kind of what I really want people to understand is, you know, there's really no one right way to be a good mom or to be a good wife or to be a, you know, a good career woman. You know, there's so many ways to do that. It just is a matter of how much you want it, you know, and and how you define that for yourself. Like you, you get to define that for yourself. You know, for you, that may mean something very different than it means for me. And that's fine. You know, we we can all succeed, you know, in whatever way fits our goals.

SPEAKER_00 20:09

Yeah. And not getting caught up comparing ourselves to friends or what they do, and oh, you don't do that or whatever, you know, telling yourself, but define yourself by your own standards.

SPEAKER_02 20:19

Yes. Yes, a hundred percent. And I think that's really tough in this like social media world where everybody's constantly comparing themselves to something that may not even be real. Um, so you know, I I never want people to trust strive for my life. Like that's not the goal. The goal is to to set your own goals and to just know that you can achieve them.

SPEAKER_00 20:43

Yes. I love that. And I do want to pick your brain on all things health in terms of just what the non-negotiables are for yourself and your family as well. There's a lot of probably brain health that you've learned. So I'm curious on like what's your go-to non-negotiab for your family and yourself.

SPEAKER_02 21:01

Yeah. I mean, I think first starting with nutrition, you know, we're I I believe both you from a brain health standpoint, but from a body standpoint, I'm a tumor doctor also. So I think a lot about carcinogens. And, you know, we are largely plant-based, you know, we're largely vegetarian. We, you know, we selectively have lean fish uh in our diet as well, um, and certainly incorporate dairy, but you know, we largely have a plant-based diet, which has definitely been shown kind of across the board to be good for heart health, for brain health, um, and just for sort of memory and cognitive resilience. We use, I use a I eat a lot of fiber, like a lot of fruits and vegetables, trying to use natural sources whenever possible. I s my diet is certainly not perfect because I barely have time to eat during the day. So I, you know, I may be using a protein bar or things that I, you know, I don't love as replacements for, you know, natural. Natural whole foods, but I don't have the same luxury that, you know, I would have if I were making my food at home. Um, but my children eat super healthy, and it's all like whole grains and vegetables. And um, we really try to avoid processed foods as much as possible, but it's everywhere. And I'm a mom, and you know, certainly there's there's no, you know, we're not again setting yourself out to succeed. You know, if if it's a Saturday and I'm tired and they eat frozen pizza, that's great, you know. Yeah. Focus on the positive.

SPEAKER_00 22:31

Then that they like that are whole grains and fruits and vegetables. What have you got?

SPEAKER_02 22:36

Well, my son's like favorite food is like it's called a quinoa a quinoa salad. So it's yeah. You know, it's like quinoa, you know, it's like tricolor. I know loves it. It's like quinoa and um some black beans and mozzarella and avocado and you know, just some like lemon juice and olive oil, and we put egg in it to to sort of build it up and add a little protein. But yeah, they like love that kind of food, which is you know, all they've ever known. You know, they don't even we mostly have whole grain breads. Probably breads. Yeah, we have whole grain bread. So they don't really even know what white rice is, you know, except in sushi. So, you know, and they like it. That's you you can develop tastes in kids, actually. You're not depriving them, as it turns out. They they just prefer truly prefer, you know, whole grain things at this point, because that's what they're used to. So I think nutrition is is sort of a non-negotiable for me, but okay to deviate, certainly. You know, we're all human. Um, and then for my kids' sleep, for me, it that's I struggle the most with that, which we could talk about. But my sleep habits are not nearly as healthy as they should be. But more and more research is clearly showing that sleep is one of the most powerful things you can do for your longevity for to protect against dementia, you know, incredibly powerful and important. Um, exercise, like these things sound so simple, but yeah, they're so powerful. You know, you go through like all of these people talking about all these supplements, like it's like, but they're supplements if you're and they're helpful if you're doing all the other things, right? If you're doing all the root things, the nutrition, the exercise, the sleep, like if you're not doing those things, the supplements aren't gonna make the difference. Right, if you're not doing any other things, right? Like that again, like it's like, okay, a multivitamin's good, but if you're not actually eating any real food, then the multivitamin's not gonna compensate for that dietary restriction. So, um, so yeah, exercise, diet, sleep for sure. In terms of exercise, that's something that has evolved. I think certainly now there's, you know, more and more showing the importance of a strength training. And that's something I as a woman, you know, entering my perimenopod years, I'm trying to incorporate more and more. Um, but I still strongly do believe that cardio still has significant value, you know, for your heart health, for your endurance. Um so I try to, you know, incorporate that. Steps are really important, you know, and any way that works for you. I walk with weighted vest, you know. I so I always try to incorporate that. I think that's really critical. I think a lot of people, you things go on fads, you know, and it's like you gotta do tons of cardio. And then it's like, no, no cardio. Cardio is terrible. Now just do strength training. And I think, you know, I'm really wary of anything that extreme. I think like use common sense, you know, it feels good to move, so move. It's good for your muscles and your bones to do weights, so do weights, but like any extreme, I think I I don't, I kind of beer away from that to some degree with the exercise. But but yeah, that. And then, you know, when it comes to supplements, you know, for I love creatine. I talk about it a lot. Of course, you should talk to your doctor, and you know, it's not safe for everybody, but the studies right now on creatine, particularly for women, particularly for people who are high risk for dementia, looking at it now for people with, you know, advanced dementia states, it's it's pretty powerful. Um, you know, I think we're understanding more and more how it can be an adjunct to other, you know, very good healthy lifestyle choices. So again, it does not replace it, but it is a true supplement to that. Um, so I think that that's very important. You know, I I use a multivitamin. There's, you know, cocoa, but there's there are other supplements like flavonoids that I, you know, I look at that, I look at a lot of antioxidants and omega-3s, do all the things. Um, you know, magnesium I use at night helps with sleep, helps to regulate a lot of conditions uh involving pain and migraines and things like that. So I think that that has a role. Um, but I think that, yeah, those are sort of like the core things that I do. It seems to be like continuing to add a list of things. Yeah. Like, I don't know, but those are kind of the main things. Um yeah. Yeah. And um I think I was reading lately that you and I've seen this a few times that you know, a kiwi has like more magnesium than like a magn a standard magnesium supplement. So I love the idea of getting things naturally. So, you know, sometimes I'll give my kids like kiwiast dessert, sort of like just a natural regulator of sleep. So I kind of like that idea.

SPEAKER_00 27:21

I ordered, I can't remember if it was a dragon fruit or maybe it was a kiwi. I ordered one of those the other day, and one of my kids was like, What is that? I was like, Oh my gosh, I have failed. Like, yeah, you don't know what this is. So now I've been on this triage of just trying to order every fun fruit or vegetable I can find. I signed up for Misfit Markets, and so now it's like a fun thing to be able to try different fruits.

SPEAKER_02 27:46

Is that where they have like the fruit that is like irregularly shaped and rejected? Is that yes, that's their advertising.

SPEAKER_00 27:52

So stuff is yeah, basically on sale a little bit, but they have all these things that you would I have never heard of. Um mandarin quat. So it's a crop between a mandarin and a kumquat. Rind. So my kids thought that was hilarious that you could just like take a bite into the rind.

SPEAKER_02 28:14

Yeah, those kumquats are amazing. They're you know, they're they're the opposite. They're sweet on the outside. They look like a little orange, but they're sweet on the outside and better on the inside. Yeah. My kids love that.

SPEAKER_00 28:23

So yeah, it is amazing how many great nutrients you can get if you just eat a little bit more variety. Yes. Um people think fruits are horrible, they're just sugar. And it's like, no, there's so much goodness in fruits.

SPEAKER_02 28:36

100%. I completely agree with you. This is like goes back to like just common sense. It's like, no, fruits are actually an incredibly powerful source of nutrients, and the absorption from them is much better. And, you know, when people say, like, oh, it's you might as well eat, you know, like a Twizzler, it's like, no, that's just like an attention-grabbing headline. Like they're not the same thing.

unknown 28:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:00

I don't know. Your body does not see it the same way. You know, fruits have fiber, they have incredible antioxidants, they have a range of nutrients. So we have like berries are like a staple in my house. So, you know, I I spend like an entire fortune on berries every week, unfortunately for me. But but my kids love strawberries, raspberries, blackberries, and blueberries. It's like in our house constantly year-round. Um, and then we do like mangoes and kiwis and apples and bananas and all the fruits.

SPEAKER_00 29:29

Yeah. Same on our end. And when like one strawberry comes back in the lunchbox, I'm like, that's 50 cents. Eat it. Like you're still eating it.

SPEAKER_02 29:38

Oh, exactly right. A hundred percent. In fact, like I feel I love, I love berries and I feel guilty eating them because I'm like, we're not gonna have enough. They're not like they're gonna go one breakfast without berries.

SPEAKER_00 29:50

Yeah, that that little four ounce container ain't cutting it for us right now.

SPEAKER_02 29:53

Exactly. Yeah. So, yeah. So that, yeah, I love that. I mean, I think that and you it's just raising kids with healthy habits, you know. So I think that they develop a taste for for all these things. And I stand by fruits are good for you.

SPEAKER_00 30:10

Yes. Well, after the foundations, are you seeing any research in anything else that's kind of bubbled up or top of mind in terms of that next level then once you're doing everything right that you do in on it?

SPEAKER_02 30:23

I mean, you know, as a woman, I I think that what I'm thinking about now and what I'm researching a lot and learning about and talking to my doctors about is, you know, the role for hormone balancing, you know, and hormone replacement. I think it's so, so clear that in women's health, the decline in estrogen corresponds to so many changes in your body that lead to sort of like a rapid decline in your health, you know, in your bone health and your brain health and your cardiovascular health. So I think that it's uh it's really an exciting time right now where we're learning more and learning to undo a lot of the harm that has been done with misinformation over the past couple decades, unfortunately. Um, so you know, I was super excited to see the black box warning come off for hormone replacement therapy in the menopause and perimenopause space. And I think that that's what we need to be watching right now as far as women's health is what is the role for that? How can we best screen people? What do we need to be looking for? You know, how can we be proactive instead of reactive? I'm really big right now on being proactive, you know, in terms of my health and not waiting to develop osteoporosis. And then you're like chasing your tail, you're like treating the osteoporosis, and then you're adding a medication for this and that. It's like, well, how do we prevent it? How do we stay healthy as long as possible?

SPEAKER_00 31:51

Yeah. And I think a lot of people still correlate women's hormones to our cycle or when really it's every part of our body needs estrogen, needs testosterone, needs progesterone. It's not just our cycle. So being able to understand that correlation of like, oh yeah, when estrogen declines in your 40s, it can impact cognitive health, your physical health, like everything about your body needs these hormones. So I'm curious.

SPEAKER_02 32:21

Your behavior mental health, you know, you know, all of these things are are so intertwined when we talk about all the, you know, we're understanding some of it through changes that happen in pregnancy. But, you know, the reason that these changes are so profound is that there are such rapid fluctuations in your hormones during that period of time. So, you know, I think that that's for women gonna be a key. And even for men, you know, understanding the role of testosterone and the role of, you know, androgen balance and all of these things. I think that there's uh so much that that we're understanding about how like all these foods drive that, right? How how do we have natural regulators? How, how does exercise interplay with your hormone levels? So I think it's really about just trying to, again, do everything we can to stay healthy, not just to reverse the damage that has been done over the years.

SPEAKER_00 33:13

Yeah. And a lot of my listeners know I've done full blood labs to try to figure out a bunch of stuff over the past year. And one of those is also checking in on female hormones. So I'm curious what you do or how do you think about of it, think about it from a preventative standpoint then? What are you personally doing?

SPEAKER_02 33:30

Yeah, I mean, I so it's it's funny because I I one of my new doctors now is Dr. Alicia Robbins. I don't know if you know her, but she's she's great. She is a um OBGYN and she specializes sort of in women's health and in perimenopause. And so I was like, oh, great, I'll sort of have this be like my new primary care doctor because this is like the phase of life that I'm in where I need that kind of counseling. And so, you know, we do a whole panel, you know, of our my labs and you know, we look at my hormone levels. Um, you know, those are not all, those are only like a piece of the puzzle. You have to talk to your doctor about what are your symptoms, what is your clinical state, what's your lifestyle. And you put all of these pieces of this puzzle together to figure out, you know, what interventions are going to best optimize your health. And, you know, fortunately, right now I am, you know, I'm healthy. And so I'm really focusing on preventative care. Um, and, you know, my I was like, I think uh right after the pregnant the birth of my second child, I like actually became pre-diabetic, which was like a shock to me because very small and it was not what I expected, but it's so strongly genetic. So I instituted changes in my lifestyle to deal with that. I started doing intermittent fasting, which really helped drive down my A1C, actually, um, because I think that is absolutely critical. I think everyone knows that I'd imagine, but certainly your glucose control is one of the most important things you can do for your health. Um, and it has effects on almost every single system, every single organ system in your body. So that is really, really critical for me.

SPEAKER_00 35:16

What type of intermittent fasting did you do?

SPEAKER_02 35:19

Well, for me, it was honestly really easy because you know, the idea of intermittent fasting is just like periods of time where you're in a fasting state, right? So anything can trigger you getting out of that state. So any amount of sugar or, you know, even low calorie things are going to get you out of that. So it for me, I try to do like a 14 to 16 hour fast, which means that, you know, after dinner, I basically don't eat anything until the next day, you know, around until after my first surgery. For me, it kind of works out. It's pretty easy because I do surgery. And so I'm not really thinking about it. So I eat when I come out of surgery. What changed is that instead of having like a coffee and a bar in the morning, I have black coffee. And so I have black coffee every morning, but I'm not, I don't have any kind of thing to get me out of my fasting state until I'm done. And there's actually been studies showing that, you know, fasting enhances cognition and focus. And so I've also found that, you know, and maybe part of that might be age-related. But for me, you know, I do have enhanced focus during that period of time, which of course I love for my surgeries. And I'm not distracted by hunger, you know, I'm never really hungry during that time because my body's not used to eating. So um, for me, that works really well and has been like a very simple intervention that prevents me from really restricting myself in any in any other way. I naturally eat pretty healthy anyways. So that small intervention I think made a big difference.

SPEAKER_00 36:46

Yeah. And that was the main thing you did and were able to lower your A1C just because of that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:52

And then like, you know, I I like I probably was, it was just like, you know, not having like, you know, a dessert, you know, things like that that were just like small. I was never really a bad eater, but you have kids and there's like can't, you know, you've got things lying around all the time. And so it I think just the process of not snacking much after dinner is really helpful because you can consume a tremendous amount of sugar in a very short period of time. And that's not the time where your body does a great job of using and harnessing that sugar. So um, I think that that that helps a lot. I think it works better with your circadian rhythms, you know, to just sort of be your metabolism, you know, slows down at night. And so that's really the time where your body needs to be resting. For me, I was doing the opposite because I didn't have time much to eat during the day. So I was doing like all my eating like late at night. It's not really a great way to function. It's not, it's not, it's hard on your body. You're not naturally built to do that. So, you know, I had to sort of figure out what works for me, and it's worked really well.

SPEAKER_00 37:57

Yeah. I was listening to a gut specialist who was saying something similar in terms of working with your circadian rhythm. And she was like, no one's gonna like this, but you need to eat at five o'clock, like old people. Right, right. What I do when I love it, but I am free. I feel like an old person. But then I don't have to eat, you know, I eat at six the next day, but that gives me at least a 12-hour break on my gut. Exactly. And you don't have to do any crazy fasting to just achieve a, you know, 12 or potentially 14 hour fast to let your exactly gut rest. And yeah, you're not meant to be eating when it's dark out. So that was her whole thing was when it's dark, like you're built to be sleeping and not eating. So like follow what nature built you for.

SPEAKER_02 38:44

A hundred percent. Yeah. And and I have to I struggle with it because my lifestyle is not built like that. You know, I can't eat at five. I'm usually still doing surgery or seeing patients. So I eat later than you know, I would like to, which means that my fast goes later. But for me, like this works and it can look different for everyone. I think it's like daunting for people, like, oh my God, it's a long time to not eat. It's like, not really, you know, if you're sleeping for eight hours a night, it's not, you know, fasting for a few hours before and after that is not actually much.

SPEAKER_00 39:15

Yeah, yep. And from a brain health perspective, is there anything that you see firsthand that you would want to tell other people about for brain health and you know, the future of uh brain health in general?

SPEAKER_02 39:31

Yeah, I mean, I so you know, I think, and I, you know, I focus a little bit on as we age because I think that like there's this critical period of time where they the things that you're doing in like your 30s and 40s are what really is going to determine your dementia risk in your 60s and 70s. Um, but I think at this point, you know, we talked about the nutrition. There's really strong evidence about socialization, and that's like socializing outside of your family. You know, it can become easier and easier to get more insular as you age, but actually, socialization is like one of the most powerful things you can do to continue to keep your brain flexible. You know, there's there's so much like language involved with socialization and um and environmental triggers and and that socialization actually really increases these really positive neurotransmitters in your brain, and all of these things are really good for your health. So they, you know, do that girl's night because it's really good for your health, you know, to have strong social ties.

SPEAKER_01 40:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:30

Um, I think that people don't talk enough about hearing. And, you know, I um have these airpods in, and it it turns out that airpods are not causing cancer, you know, but um, but having really high, high volumes that are hurting your hearing, that's actually more dangerous. So, you know, if you can actually reduce your volume with things that are noise canceling um and you know, as much as possible not being in really loud environments, that is actually really, really critical. You know, some people have genetic drivers of hearing loss, but you know, you go to a concert, like there's no excuse to be going to a concert and not putting earplugs in. You know, I have these cute little like jewelry earplugs that I wear anytime I go to a concert, or even if I'm gonna be in a big public space that's allowed because it's really, really important to protect your hearing, protect it like it's your brain, because it is. Um, hearing loss has been strongly correlated with dementia. So it's, you know, what because basically what happens is as you stop hearing people, as you lose your hearing, you're now no longer getting these really powerful auditory cues that are driving these brain language activation areas. Like language is such a complicated thing, it's such a, you know, incredibly dynamic process that you're really depriving your brain of that. And that has, and then that actually leads to more social isolation. So like it kind of all goes hand in hand, right? So um, so I do think hearing is is actually really critical and more people should be paying attention to it.

SPEAKER_00 42:04

Yeah, that's such a good learning for me because I always assumed the socialization piece was more for fulfilling in relationships as opposed to connecting it to what's firing. Like that when you're interacting with a friend, you are literally speaking, you are listening, you're learning, you're triggering, you're you're interacting in a very, you know, quality way.

SPEAKER_02 42:25

Very dynamic way. Yeah. And we do so little of that now. We're like on our phones and like interacting with something that's not interacting back with us. So, you know, I really think that now more than ever, you know, forming and keeping strong social connections, human connections is gonna be, is gonna be critical for us. And then learning new skills, which we're also not doing a great job of anymore. Because like what skills do you have to learn when, you know, Chat GPT can do everything for you? You know, you have to push yourself outside of your comfort zone, you know, learn something new, whether it's, you know, learning how to ballroom dance or, you know, doing learning a new language. You know, these kinds of things are are fun and they're they can be social and they're you know incredibly powerful to keep your brain flexible, you know. And then if you really want to get deep into it, there's incredible things you can do to exercise your memory, you know, building memory palaces and learning about how to harness the power of your memory. There's it is a complete untapped resource. And, you know, if if you want to exercise your brain, there it's it's literally as amenable to therapy and to building as any other part of your body.

SPEAKER_00 43:39

Ugh, it reminds me so much of just we have this push against our mod modern lifestyle. I mean, everything is needing to be proactive and push towards carving out time to learn new skills, like keep your brain active, socializing more, and don't just strive for sitting on the couch at the Of the day to you know, we shouldn't be striving for that at the end of the day. We need to make space to try to be human and we don't have a chance to be bored. I guess that's what I'm trying to get at. We don't leave ourselves space to be bored and then therefore pick up a new skill. We're just filling the void with a feed, the television, all these other things that just leech our brains and don't get us back to original human self.

SPEAKER_02 44:26

100%. And you know, what's so interesting is, you know, this culture of hyperstimulation has actually completely transformed our ability to focus and our attention and our memory. And we've moved to this world where people can't actually focus for more than seconds at a time. It's remarkable, seconds. And that I think is something we need to all actively fight, you know, you like to build things in that have a different pace that slow you down. Like I'm in book clubs and I love that. And I still get the I have a Kindle, but I have the physical book too, because I like the pace of it, you know, and same thing for my kids, like reading is really, really critical for us. You know, we are a big reading family because the the pace of that and the attention span that you need to build for that is really important. But I think you have to like go back to these things that we took for granted in our childhood. And now you have to actually do that intentionally and build that into your life. Otherwise, you know, I I truly think that all that this culture is like melting our brains. I think it's, I think it's severely inhibiting our ability to learn and it's limiting our memory. Um, and for sure it's changing sort of our our reward mechanisms and what we find stimulating. Like it's this severely attention grabbing culture that I think is you know super harmful, particularly for children, which is why I'm like so protective of screen time for my children. Like incredibly, incredibly protective of it.

SPEAKER_00 46:12

Because Yeah, what do you do then?

SPEAKER_02 46:15

I mean, so we with my son, like there were like basically no screens at all until like age four. Um, and then one thing that I I don't think people talk about that a lot, but like they're not screen time is not all equal. You know, I found like shows, um, especially modern shows are so at such a rapid pace and they're like so overstimulating, yeah, that I think that they're a very different flavor than like an old Disney movie, you know, like Mr.

SPEAKER_00 46:47

Rogers neighborhood. Have you ever seen that one recently?

SPEAKER_02 46:49

Oh 100%. Wow. So, so like like so, like my if I my kids watch shows, they're like people are gonna probably hate me for this, but I'm like, they watch like Magic School bus, like like these old shows that are at a totally different pace that maybe have some educational content, but I actually am much stricter about shows than I am about like movies. So we do, we let them have like a movie night, you know? So they have one movie night a week. And I actually think that long form is better for them. So I'm like, I'd rather you have like an hour and a half movie than like two half an hour mindless shows. We're like, what did you even get out of that? What was the point? What was the plot? And and to me, that I think is better for their attention and sort of for their world building. So, you know, they do we do a lot of like read the book and then you get to watch the movie. So they're like really into the characters and the worlds. Um, and they're they get excited about finishing like a book or a series. So, so we do that. Um, and then, you know, yeah, they don't have access to no screens during the week. Um, they don't have iPhones, you know, we signed like pledges this wait until 8th, which I want to wait at least that long. They don't have smart devices. The, you know, in the car, like we actually this our hack is like they listen to audiobooks in the car. Oh yeah. So like if we have a long car ride or on the lane, they like love their audiobooks. Um, and so they only have like a device so that they could have listen to an audiobook, and that's like completely controlled by us. But I think it's just a a really wonderful way to make them feel like it's something fun and different, but and keep yourself sane without giving them a screen.

SPEAKER_01 48:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:35

So like they just it's just like, oh, you're in the car, you're long car ride and you get an audiobook and they it's like a treat.

SPEAKER_00 48:41

So especially when they're young, they don't know any better besides what you expose them to. They don't know that they're missing out on an iPad in the car. They're excited that they have an audio book in the car. Exactly. It does get hard. My my kids are a little bit older, so it does get hard when then they're when they realize friends, like oh my friend has an iPhone. And we're like that's a hard no.

SPEAKER_02 49:03

Like you're it's hard. I'll tell you, I struggle because my son turns turned 10 and we got we just I hate video games. I really do. I I really detest them in this culture because I just think there's like it's like, yeah, I grew up with video games, but we had so many physical activities we were doing all the time that you didn't it was it wasn't the only thing in our life. You know, now it's like it's just so overstimulating that I find I don't love them. Oh, we got my son a Nintendo Switch, and I'll tell you, like, even in the brief times now that he's been using it, I'm just like, oh my God. Like, I I wish we did not have this thing. Yeah. You know, because you can see that these companies, you know, they build these devices to be so addictive. Yeah. And these children's brains are so, so malleable and they're so responsive to that. And like we as adults get addicted to these types of things. Like, imagine a s a child who, you know, has doesn't have the things in place to tell them why there should be limits, you know. And so I I um that type of thing, it's like not all screens are created equal, right? So like a video game screen time is like you got 15 minutes of that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:18

Right. And then you're done.

SPEAKER_02 50:20

Yeah, it's like very, and even with yeah, even with the video games, we're like, hey, you do the sports games, you know, so we we try to be protective of it, but you know, like we all are figuring it out, I think. I think everyone and everyone knows their kid, like each kid is different too. Yes. You know, some kids might be able to handle it a lot better than other kids. And you just have to know your family, you have to know your kid. And and I think that looks different for everyone. So, like, I'm very much like you're the best parent for your kid, you know, and just because I make these choices doesn't mean those are the right choices to make. You know, I think you just like have common sense and you're like, oh, you I want my kids to be doing physical activities and to be playing sports and to be reading and to be learning. And sure, like you incorporate these things because you know, that's it's fun and it's okay to do that, but like everything in moderation.

SPEAKER_00 51:10

Yeah. And I do like at least having a plan going into it, which again can ebb and flow, and you can the plan can get shot out of the window, but at least having some forethought about what you do want to have your kids' life look like around screens, I think is important and to be knowledgeable about what is happening. Um I mean, any big tech executive, I guarantee, does not have technology that they're building around their kids when it comes to, you know, meta and all of those things, just because they know they know because they know going on with it. Yeah, so just knowing how addictive it can be, and to your point of like crafting and thinking about what you can provide in the car, what are our dinner times looking like, you know, being a little thoughtful about it to try to live into it sets yourself up for success. And then again, it can work some days and not the others, but at least you have a plan going into it. Exactly. A fight.

SPEAKER_02 52:06

Exactly. Yeah, no, that's exactly right. I think like you sound like you're a lot better at that. My husband's a lot better at that too, is like he's just like super regimented about it. He's like, we have a plan for everything. I feel like I get like the this mom guilt, so like I compensate for you know feeling guilty about not being around by saying yes more than he does. But um, but like what kids need is routine and they consistency. And so we try to do that as much as we can.

SPEAKER_00 52:35

Yes. Before we close out, too, on the dementia front, are there any other pieces that you're seeing as being super in helpful from either the research research perspective or that you've heard um to be able to help on that front? I know that's one of those things that as we become midlife in the sandwich generation, as we call it, where you're taking care of young kids and aging parents, it almost becomes more at the forefront, brain health because we're seeing our parents and our in-mark generation facing this, and we don't want it for ourselves. So for sure.

SPEAKER_02 53:07

Yeah, no, I mean, I think all those things that we talked about are are being looked at. You know, creatine in particular, high dose creatine is being looked at to reverse, to even start reversing or mitigating some of the dementia progression. You know, they had done a study looking at um high dose creatine for a six-week period in patients with Alzheimer's. And you know, the results of all of that are still are still um in the works. And so we don't really have answers for all of that. But I think it's not, you know, there's no silver bullet, unfortunately. Uh, you know, I truly think that we're, I hope, think and hope we can do more from the metabolic front, uh, understand more in the gene therapy front. I think a lot of interesting work is being done with GLP1s and maybe their association with decreasing inflammatory states and ultimately decreasing dementia risk. And, you know, the reason for that is so multifactorial. We know that, you know, uncontrolled diabetes and, you know, what we call metabolic syndrome has is strongly correlated with, you know, poor brain health and dementia. And so certainly anything that's going to help you control for that is going to improve your brain health. So I think we're still trying to figure out like what the causation is there, like what is what exactly is leading to what. But I think it's going to be some combination of these things that we're using to treat to both prevent and to treat dementia, you know, some combination of lifestyle, some combination of these metabolic interventions like GLP1s, supplementation, like maybe creatine. Um, and then hopefully for the more sort of severe forms, you know, I'm I am hopeful that we can do something, you know, in the way of changing the reversing some of the genetic gen damage that has been done that has led to that state. So, you know, I still remain very hopeful. There are a lot of studies that are still ongoing and, you know, we're following all of them closely, but there's a lot of hope. I think that I, you know, I feel extraordinarily hopeful about medicine and brain health and aging right now. I think we're entering this golden age of being able to comprehensively understand health and to be able to find things that are extremely targeted, extremely, you know, driven by precision medicine and this patient-centric approach that I think is going to be much more the answer than a lot of the way we've been treating medicine in the past, which has been like a one size fits all. And I think we're understanding now, like that doesn't make any sense. Everybody is unique and each person deserves their own unique cocktail of things to help keep them healthy and um to optimize their own potential.

SPEAKER_00 55:57

Yeah. Yeah. I'm really excited to hear what are those things going to be when we look back and we're like, oh, well, we just didn't know that then. Like our parents do like, oh, you were in the front seat at age five because it wasn't really a thing back then. Or, you know, all of that. I think alcohol is like alcohol is that for our generation. Yes. You know, it's hard.

unknown 56:17

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 56:18

Alcohol is the tobacco of our generation. I think like all of us are coming to terms with that. And like this is sort of where people, it's like mistrust in the in medicine and everything comes from, right? Where like it's like the same thing with smoking. It's like doctors used to be like, yes, smoke to help your anxiety. And then they were like, oh, no, no, smoking actually kills you. You can't do that. Yeah. And so I think it's similar where we this the pendulum swings, you know, and you go from one end saying something is healthy for you to the other end saying there's really no safe limit. Um, and I think that's something we're all grappling with. But I think the good news there is that changing your lifestyle, even now, you know, at any point really, I think implementing changes and cutting back on toxins at any point, even if you're not cutting it out entirely, there is benefit. And, you know, so I think that sometimes what doctors don't do a great job of is understanding to meet people where they're at. And so, you know, there's this concept like, okay, well, if you can't exercise like five days a week, you might as well not. Well, that's not true. You know, any amount is helpful. Similarly, you know, maybe you're not perfect in your diet, and maybe you're not perfect in in eliminating these toxins completely. But if you can cut down from where you were to 50% of that, that's gonna help you. You know, that's good. Like, do what you can do. You know, do what you can you can maintain. And I think the most important thing is to be able to sustain it, you know. So it's like it's not the strict diet that wins, like that never wins because like it's completely unsustainable. It's the moderation that you can sustain over decades. That's the one that's gonna lead to the, you know, your most healthy, optimized state.

SPEAKER_00 58:07

Yeah. And your body is so resilient. You can change starting today. You can use your gut. You can heal your gut, you can build muscle in your 40s. I mean, your body is so amazing. And yeah, you don't need a complete overhaul to get there. You can do small things with small steps that just snowball into something awesome.

SPEAKER_02 58:27

I know I can talk about this forever, but I think gut, I am huge on gut health and brain health. Um, but you know, all these things that we've talked about are part of that. You know, all of these antioxidants, the fiber, the protein, these anti-inflammatory agents, all these things play into the same thing and they're tapping into this incredibly powerful communication that happens between your gut and your brain. Um, and that one drives the other. It's it's literally a continuum.

SPEAKER_00 58:56

So Okay, I do have to ask you a little bit about that. Because I am so interested and confused. Because the extent of what I know after geeking out on it for so long is that there is a connection. So is there absolutely is there a bit more science behind it that you can explain what is actually happening?

SPEAKER_02 59:13

Yeah, I mean, so you know, the same actually the same neuro there are you have neurotransmitters like in your receptors for neurotransmitters, which are like your chemical messengers in your brain, you actually have a lot of those in your gut. So a lot of the a lot of the same um chemical messages are actually happening to some extent in your gut. And so, you know, when we're talking about gut health and brain health, it becomes much more complicated. You know, part of it are these chemical messengers, but part of it is also, you know, your absorption and the pro-inflammatory state, um, what that what that inflammatory state does to your vasculature, the blood vessels in your brain. There's a lot about infections and and sort of like the good bacteria versus the bad bacteria. We know for sure that, you know, infections are probably one of the main drivers of dementia, for example. And so, like part of the reasons we know that the shingles vaccine was really strongly associated with a reduction in dementia risk was because of the reduction in that viral insult and that we know that viruses drive dementia. Multiple viral insults can drive dementia. So um they're they're all sort of sort of, it's a complex interplay. I don't think that anybody knows for sure, but I do, I do believe that like we, you know, we can treat a lot of conditions in the gut, and it has a meaningful impact on your cognitive strength, on your mental health for sure. You know, I think that a lot is being done, particularly um with mental health, uh depression and anxiety, and looking at how we can modify that through these changes in your lifestyle, changes in your diet. There's a lot being done there. We kind of at the cusp of it, but I think we're learning a lot.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:10

Yeah, that's really exciting. I think especially when, you know, right now it feels like some of the answers are just uh anxiety pills, you know, help with depression. You know, we're all trying to figure out what's the best way to tackle something that's really hard and knowing that there's other things that we're gonna explore and learn about more deeply than just throwing medication at it gets me really excited because it does feel like we're finally getting to more holistic medicine where it's like, okay, if something's going on up here, like we're not treating up here, we're treating our own.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:44

For sure. My friend, um, if you're interested, uh, Dr. Ellen Vora, she's amazing and she's a kind of holistic psychiatrist in this space. And she focuses a lot on how we can harness our gut health in order to treat psychiatric conditions. And so, like, does that, is that the answer for everything? No, you know, there's there's obviously a range, um, and there's a certain population that are gonna be receptive and responsive to those types of interventions, you know, the same way, like, you know, for your heart health, to a point lifestyle is going to have a big impact, but then at some point you're gonna need medication. You know, similarly, I think we have these periods of time where we can maybe intervene and help prevent and protect. And then we've got periods of time where, you know, we have to shift into to some some of the more conventional therapies.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:32

Yeah. Oh, I love it. Well, I know we could talk forever. Dr. Jutani, thank you so much for joining us. Is there anything that we didn't touch on that you wish we would have?

SPEAKER_02 1:02:43

No, this is so fun. We can talk lots more. Yeah, I'm I'm you know, actively, I think I'm a a voracious consumer of information like you are, I think. So, you know, I'm always learning more and always, you know, excited to share that.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:57

Awesome. Well, maybe we'll have to have you on later when uh a year from now, when you've learned a lot more and we have more stories to share and I can prick your brain more.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:04

Always, same, likewise. I need all I need all the lifestyle hacks.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:09

You're welcome. So nice to talk to you. Thanks for listening to another episode of Find Your Fuel. If you enjoyed the show and want to support us, please leave a comment or review. And before we go, I have to give you the obligatory medical and legal disclaimer. This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only. The advice and recommendations we discussed are not intended as medical advice and do not replace the treatment or care of a physician or any other primary health care provider. Using the information shared today does not create a doctor-patient relationship and it should not be used to diagnose or treat any health problems. Always consult with a qualified healthcare professional before making changes to your diet, exercise routine, or medication. The use of any information provided is solely at your own risk. So, in a nutshell, let's be smart and remember these stories and conversations are for educational purposes only. Help other women find the fuel to live their best lives. We'll see you in the next episode.