#37 Nobody Teaches You About This Part...The Diet AFTER The Diet

The diet AFTER the diet - no one teaches us about this and it is arguably the BEST and most important phase - so we unpack it

Want to get in contact with us? Just follow us on IG and send us a DM - we love to chat!

Em - https://www.instagram.com/emdiamondcoaching/

Tash - https://www.instagram.com/tashalankestercoaching/

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Alright. Hey guys, welcome back to Mindset Meets Muscle. It's been a while. This is a podcast where we explore the intersection between psychology, physiology, and performance. And today, this episode, I'm super excited to talk about because it's it's somewhere where we're both in our journeys right now. And arguably, once you get it right, our absolute favorite phase, even though it can actually be probably the most challenging when you start out, when you're moving from fat loss, when you're moving from a build phase. And we're talking about maintenance. This is, it's not fat loss, it's not bulking, it's not chasing a new goal every week. It's literally just maintaining what you already have. And I know that sounds boring to some people already and maybe a little bit scary because you're like, I don't want to maintain, like I want to keep getting better. But actually, I think maintenance is probably the most underrated and most misunderstood phase in health and fitness. Yeah, I without shadow of a doubt agree. I actually think it's more of an improvement phase. And I think maintenance gets overlooked because it really doesn't fit into this like transformation culture. It doesn't seem sexy, right? You put on a deficit or someone in a build, it's like got an end result where maintenance doesn't really have that. We love beginnings, we love the dramatic before and after transformation photos, but we don't see what happens after that, you know? And actually, really, most of your life should be spent in this period of time where you are just in this improvement phase, you are in this maintenance phase and you're not dieting. And actually, both me and Tasha the same way, we don't really do huge builds, like we're not really into that. It's just about maintaining your current level of maybe fitness, your improvement of muscle, and keeping the fat mass that you currently have. Learning to maintain success, learning to maintain successfully is arguably a more valuable skill to learn than lose fat because that is where your life should be. Yeah, and I love how you say maintenance is not really maintenance, it's more of an improvement phase. And I think that's so important because people probably shy away from it because they're like, oh, I don't want to maintain, like I want to keep improving, which is amazing. And we all should, and that's how we should all think about our physique journeys forever. Like we're always going to be improving. If we're doing it the right way, we're always gonna Today is the worst you're ever gonna look. You're always just gonna keep getting better and better. And people think about maintenance and just think, oh, like that's not fun, that's not sexy, like I wanna lose fat. But ultimately, a calorie deficit is always gonna be there. A calorie deficit, if you were to stay in it long term, is not healthy. And I was listening to a podcast the other day. Someone made such a good, interesting point, not about this, but I think I can relate it to this. She said, if you have an infection or something, you take antibiotics and you get better. Those antibiotics are magic for that week because they make you feel better. You're not going to then say, oh my God, those antibiotics were magic. I'm going to take them forever because your body would break down. Like you can't be on antibiotics for the rest of your life because it would just ruin your whole gut microbiome. You would lose your immunity, your immune system, et cetera, et cetera. And I think I like to look at a calorie deficit in the same way. It's amazing for a short period of time. It's going to get you to a really, really positive goal that you want to get to. But if we stay in a calorie deficit forever, which is what most women are chasing, ultimately our body is going to break down over time. And I have had personal experience of this, but actually we really need to, we need to look at the deficit with a short-term lens. Lenge, lunch. And so it's a French. And people can spend years hopping from one diet to another, always in it, always in a deficit, or maybe not even like physically in a deficit, but in that diet mindset, which I think even more mentally is probably a dangerous place to be if you're there all of the time. And never actually learning what maintenance looks like, never learning how to maintain a physique. And really that is where the magic happens on the other side of maintaining and eating more. I actually think the diet after the diet is always the most important phase. People think that like your maintenance isn't where anything happens. And like I've said, like it's an improvement phase. And I want to kind of really challenge that because it's not stagnation. You don't not move, like you actually see the adaptations more than you would ever see in a deficit in terms of the way your physique is changing. That didn't really make sense, but we'll go with it. I did. Also looking at like just habits and like the habits that you're building in a maintenance phase. If you can't keep your physique in a maintenance, well, what's the point in dieting all the time? So we have to look at what is like successful for you in a maintenance phase to stay in the healthiest position with the relationship with food, with your strength. We want to improve on these things rather than be in a deficit where maybe over time our strength starts to a little bit decrease, starts to decrease a little bit, or our energy starts to deplete. It's really important that we build on these areas. Do you know what I think is interesting as well? Is we obviously we said arguably maintenance is the hardest part. And I think a lot of coaches in the industry actually struggle to maintain their bodies as well. I agree with you. It's hard for everyone. I agree with you. I think it's really interesting. I watch a lot of coaches, a lot of coaches, and I don't know if you know who I'm talking about, but as a specific. I think we do. Yeah. Where it's constantly in, they're constantly in a diet phase. Okay, and then they're a maintenance and then reignite phase. I would question if you're with a coach, if they're constantly in and out of a diet, what does that say about your sort of journey? Like, will that be what you're being led up to do? Because it shouldn't really look like that. Your best times will be spent when you've got energy in your tank. And I think it's likely because they probably have gone a bit too hard, they've restricted a bit too much. And I yeah, I do get it. The fitness industry is a tough place to be. And if we're sort of fighting against where our body's natural set point is, it's gonna be very hard to try and maintain something lower than that. But then they'll go on holiday and they'll gain like five kilos. And I just think, what? That's that's not that's I think it's the other way. So they go out and they advertise that going on holiday, you should consume everything under the sun. And I am absolutely pro and for people going on holiday and having more indulgence and having your Aperol and eating your carbonara. I love that. Go hard. But actually, if you're doing that constantly, it's a lot more challenging to get back into the habits once you get back into the UK or once you get back into a rhythm that you were doing prior. So, like, I will always train on holiday without fail. And I've got nothing against people who don't train on holiday, but I actually think I try and get the majority of my clients to train on holiday because they keep that habit. Habits are hard to build, right? So if your new habit is like, fuck it, I'm on holiday, I'm gonna go out, I'm gonna have the pastries, the pancakes, I'm gonna have, you know, the the big fry up foods for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. When you get back to the UK, you're probably gonna feel quite sluggish. Your prop digestion's probably gonna be really out of whack. You will have gained fat mass, and then it's really hard. Then you have to go back into a deficit. You're not actually just then going from maybe a maintenance where you've gained a little tiny few hundred grams and then back into a maintenance. And also we know obviously when we're dieting and when we're being quite restrictive, we're gonna lose muscle. We do lose, we obviously we we try and prevent that as much as possible by training and making sure we're eating the right things, but you will lose muscle if you're in a deficit, naturally. You're gonna lose weight. You're gonna obviously we wanna prioritize fat mass, but you will lose muscle. When you go away like that, and when you hit that absolute fuck it button and you go all or nothing, the first thing that you're gonna gain back is body fat. And you'll it's very easy to then get trapped in that cycle of I'm then trying to like lose and lose the same amount of body fat that I lost. But at each time, you're probably doing a disservice to your overall body composition because of that behavior and being stuck in that cycle of I'm gonna diet and then I'm gonna go all out and I'm gonna binge and then I need to come back and diet. Like your body's gonna be exhausted after that. So we really do try and preach when whenever we are talking about diets and weight loss, healthy weight loss, doing it in the right way, doing it slowly and steadily, because I always say the slow way is the fast way, ultimately, and really building the habits behind that that actually you need to continue with long term through your maintenance. I always say what got what got you here is gonna keep you here. So if we then stop all of the habits that we did in fat loss, we're not gonna maintain that result. So it's really, really important that we do. And it's really important that we do on holiday. I always like on holiday for sure, don't track your calories, turn that dial down. Don't train every single day if you don't want to. Don't take your sessions to the normal amount of intensity that you do, but still prioritize movement. That is so important. Still prioritize, okay, I'm gonna have protein at every single meal and make sure I'm consuming my whole foods. I'm going to probably have one meal that is a little bit lighter. Maybe I'll just have two big meals and that's all I need because I'm eating a lot more. Literally, just those little things are really, really beneficial and that can help you maintain and keep you going long term. We don't have to have to have the dial up all the time, but you do need to be thinking about this in some form of way long term for your overall health and maintenance. So if we look at what really is maintenance, we are looking at when you are eating approximately enough energy, obviously, to support your body's needs. And obviously, we've got to remember when we are in a in a deficit, you are consuming less energy than your body is burning, right? So we're not looking at losing any weight. We are not looking at gaining any weight either. We are providing our body just to obviously the clues in the title maintain, but it will help with obviously your energy function, your recovery, and your performance. So your performance in the gym. So actually, you will find yourself having way more energy to be able to get through daily tasks, but also when you're training, your training intensity should increase and you should find your energy within your training sessions a little bit higher. Doesn't mean that nothing changes, and I think that's something that also like we need to really, really highlight is that you will see improvements, like it's an improvement phase during this maintenance because weight stability and body composition stability are not really the same thing, right? So we might see our scale or our weight maintain, but your body composition can still change. Yeah, and this is this is definitely the best part of maintenance and something that I'm going through at the moment because I'm in a maintenance phase and I'm definitely seeing more muscle mass go on my body. Actually, over the past few months, I'm noticing an improvement in my body, which is really, really positive. And we do see improvements in maintenance. I one of my clients the other day, we're we're we finished fat loss going into maintenance, and she was like, Oh, I know, like for the next few months, like it's only gonna be maintenance. So I'm not gonna see any progress. I'm I'm almost almost talking about a maintenance phase as if it was a negative thing. Yeah, right. And she's not gonna see results. And I was like, absolutely stop that train of thought right now. You are going to see results, and it's actually so much fun because you get to eat enough food that your body wants, support your body's health and needs, as you said. And a lot of women never get there. So actually, if you are in this phase, you should be really bloody proud that you've made it here and absolutely take advantage of it. Don't be afraid to eat more food and know that actually we're not, we're conditioned, right, to see the scale go down. That is that is what we're conditioned to throughout our whole lives. But know that actually that's not the goal at this point in time and really separate yourself from that. The scale is going to stay the same. And if the scale goes down, you're not eating enough food. That's actually not what we want. That would be a negative, negative feedback from what we actually want to see. And if the scale goes up a little bit, that that is fine. And I think it's really, really important to reframe what the goal is now and know that actually we're no longer in a fat loss face. We've made it out of that and be proud of that because as I said, a lot of people don't never get there. Wild when you look at like how we look at a scale. So people can get a thrill when they see the scale go down. Like, oh my god, it's a moving, it's a moving. And we instantly think less is better, but actually, really, is it better? Is your health better? Like, okay, obviously, if you're, you know, needing to lose some fat mass, like it's a it's a definite health benefit for you. This is a different scenario. But like, you know, if you are in a healthy body, we instantly think the scale going down is a better thing. But it but really think about it. Like, is it having a positive effect on you? And I think it's really wild how attached we can get to the scale because then you can see the scale go up. I've got a client who is amazing. She's super lean and she's fucking shredded at the moment, and she's done really well, like she's worked her ass off. But like there is part of her brain when she gets on the scale and sees it goes up that she instantly is triggered. And it's like, no, it it's you have to look at this logically, like, actually, is it from food consumption? Is it from water retention? Where is it coming from? But also, your body has not changed. It has not changed. Like, you've got to understand that your markers are in a different position. Like, it's not about the scale, and we look at body composition changes over time. Um, yeah, I agree because I I still feel like I have to call myself out. If I step on the scale and it's gone up, I'm like, fuck. But I'm like, actually, no, that's a good thing because I'm training bloody hard. I'm eating a good enough amount of food. Some days I might even be in a little bit of a surplus. If the scale was not going up slightly, and I'm I'm talking like a couple of hundred grams every month or so. Actually, that's a really good amount. And that that is more likely to be muscle mass than it is to be fat mass. And we need to just talk in on that one. Like your scale should not stay at the same time, the same weight throughout your whole life. Like it will fluctuate, okay, just to make sure like it if especially if you're training, like your scale will increase. Okay, it's not a bad thing to see that increasement, that increment. And so I think that's something that we really obviously want to highlight as well. Like, if you're you're stepping on the scale and your scale is always saying 60 kg, and five years later it's still saying 60 kg, and you're training consistently, there might be something going on, you know? Yeah, actually, we would we would probably think, are you training with enough intent? Are you gaining enough muscle? Probably not. Something needs to change, and actually that's that's a negative thing. So I think it's really, really good to look at the scale that way and know actually like we don't want it to stay the same. We actually long term want it to go up. And I do think that we can really panic if we see it go up really quickly. And I think having a good gauge of probably what we'd want to see. And I do think that looking at anywhere between a hundred to five hundred grams a month is probably a really good place that you know actually that's more likely to be muscle than body fat. So something else that I think we really, really need to focus on in a maintenance phase and something that we preach all the time, shock, it is the name of our podcast, is working on our mindset. Our mindset really, really comes in when we are in a maintenance phase because we've removed that fat loss goal. And as we said, you're literally looking for that scale to go down. Like that is kind of what you identify with. You identify with fat loss. And once you remove that goal, what is left? And that can be quite a very challenging place for people to be because you've been so focused on that for such a long time. And of course, you're still doing these other things, you're training, you're eating well, but you kind of you kind of think, who are you without that, without that goal of transformation? Like what, what, what do I do now? Because I've I've actually achieved everything that I've been probably spending my whole life trying to achieve. And where do I go from here? Yeah, I think if we look at like maintenance, it kind of forces you to move from the outcome-based motivation to more of an identity-based motivation. So you have to stop saying, like, I'm going to the gym, I'm putting in this work because I'm trying to lose weight. I know that we look at training as not burning calories, but a lot of people do start off potentially there. And so we have to really work on shift that and you have to start thinking about I am exercising because I am someone who values health. I am someone who values strength. I am someone who values, you know, yeah, you can value body composition changes, you know, and you can see those body competitions changes, but they are slower. Okay, so we're looking at a bit more delayed gratification or satisfaction or gratification. It doesn't happen instantly, like you might step on the scale, you know, every day potentially and see some sort of change when you're in a deficit. But when you obviously are doing a maintenance, this kind of shift and this difference within your physique is a lot slower. You have to start thinking, I'm eating well because I'm on holiday. You have to stop thinking, I'm just eating well because I'm on holiday. And you have to stop saying I'm eating well until my holiday, and then I'm gonna go balls in. You're gonna go, I eat well throughout the year because I want to nourish my body and think about my health. And I think that shift can be enormous for people and they can start seeing health as a whole year-round subject rather than just a short temporary six-sweet deficit, holiday happens, eat like a dickhead, go back into the six-week deficit. Because we want to look at this as a lifestyle, and these these habits are part of your lifestyle, and this is part of your identity, and that is why if you make it part of your identity and lifestyle, you don't need to constantly do this yo-yo. Yeah, I think it's so important, and there's the diet is sort of like one small goal, right? It's not the whole picture, and I think we really need to make sure that, yeah, of course, we're we're probably gonna see a weight loss as a byproduct if you're someone that has weight to lose. But actually, ultimately, we're in this because we want to be the best version of ourselves. We want to see what our potential is. We want to, we, we owe it to ourselves to give ourselves the best chance of looking bloody phenomenal, being as strong as we can, and actually long-term investing into our health pension.

unknown 18:12

Really?

SPEAKER_00 18:13

But it's it is that it's like the more that you invest little bits now, the the more freedom that you're gonna have later on in life because you're gonna be more capable. And I think we we really actually underestimate the power of strength, the power of exercise, the power of nourishing ourselves with good food. Cause yeah, maybe aesthetically it makes us look good. But actually, what are we doing for ourselves long term if we aren't focusing on all of these things, but actually also focusing on all of these things with enough food in the system? It's just transformative for our overall health and what we're gonna, how we're going to age long term. And I think thinking about that as well is really, really powerful when you're in a maintenance phase because you're not just doing this for you now to look a certain way. And yeah, that's a great byproduct. And as we said, we should always be improving, but we're doing this. So when we're 70, we're still gonna be able to do pull-ups in the gym. And we're not gonna be a full risk and we're not gonna be suffering from osteoporosis and have to have a hip replacement or struggle to run after our grandkids. No, we're going to actually really keep that quality of life, hopefully, up until the end. If we look at extended periods of dieting, obviously our bodies do adapt when we diet. So, like metabolically, it's not huge, but obviously there's things like we blink less and we move and fidget less and we burn less calories. And obviously, if we're losing muscle when we diet, that muscle is active, so it burns more calories, having a little bit more muscle. These are small markers, but they add up, right? So we look at the energy we burn through the day, and our bodies become more energy efficient. Okay, so it makes sense. Our bodies are made to survive. So obviously, when we look at maintenance, our body then adapts. If we look at maintenance periods, we allow the many of these adaptations to normalize. So maybe our energy improves, our trading quality improves, that recovery element is increasing, and therefore we might build a little bit more muscle and therefore baby burn a little bit more calories, and you then are moving more, and subconsciously you're moving more. Like, you know how active I am as I move all around that this room, you know. I talk, I'm very fidgety. But like when you diet, those fidgone less. So now we're putting more energy into the tank, which in turn is providing our body with more movement without us even realizing it. Yeah, I think a good way to look at maintenance as well is how can I make my body as efficient as possible? Yeah. How can I give this vessel as much food as possible? And it's like use that food to build muscle and build that body composition. Because really that's kind of what we're doing at maintenance. And as you say, we we blink less, we move less in a diet. The opposite happens when we're in maintenance. And if you're someone that actually has a very adaptive body and adaptive metabolism, so if you're someone that has to diet on really low calories, you might be able to build those calories up quite high in maintenance because you're gonna adapt the other way as well. We're like that, aren't we? I'm like that. Yeah, I'm like that. I I have to diet on really low calories. I can, well, my maintenance at the moment is 2600, which is wild. Wild. But it's like, what's let's figure out our body's full potential. Let's see how much food, how how much can we push this? Let's see how much food we can actually consume, maintain our current body, and the the potential and the improvements that you're gonna see on the other side of that, not only with what how much muscle that you're gonna gain your performance in the gym, but your overall energy in the day. Like I can walk 25,000 steps a day and feel like I've done nothing. Like I have so much energy, and that is that that's a really exciting that's an exciting thing, and maintenance is so freaking cool, and I wish more people would would. Realize it and even I had to like push myself through that own challenge of okay, I might be feeling a little bit uncomfortable initially, but that's probably all in my own head. Like if I push through and actually really go all in on this maintenance phase, how much do you have to gain from that? And it is so much. Like life, your physique, your muscle mass, your performance, your like everything improves. And I think more people need to realise that. It is wild when you think about it. Like, we do quite a lot of exercise. I train quite a lot, right? I love movement. I am a definitely pro movement in my life. Like, even if I'm doing obviously, I don't sit on the sofa and and have a day like that. Just not for me mentally, more than anything. I'm not against people doing that, by the way. That's not what I'm saying. But but actually, I've been in a maintenance phase, I would say, approaching like two years. Yeah. Potentially. And I've kept this physique that I've currently got. Really, it's fluctuated probably a couple of kg here and there, but more or less it's sort of stayed the same, right? My energy is through the roof. Like it's through the roof. Like I do quite a lot of and you know training. And, you know, I do run and I put my body through things that are quite demanding at times, and I recover fucking well. Like, I literally, my recovery is the best it's probably ever been. And that goes to show what I'm putting into my body is having that really amazing effect. So if you're constantly really fatigued and you're getting really bad DOMs and you're doing like the bare minimum, and you're still finding yourself in a bad place for recovery, chances are you need to actually have a breakout of your diet. Like you need to be putting your body back into a place where it feels energized again. And you can approach a deficit. And like Tush said at the beginning, dieting will always be there. You know, you don't need it all the time. You can pick it up when it feels better for you or when your energy level is there. But learning to be okay with being at maintenance and actually psychologically, psychologically, mentally being okay with being at maintenance is big shit, right? Because people feel like they have to have a specific goal of I just need to see that scale move or I just need to see that change happen. I need to lose that little bit of fat. But actually learning over time that you can gain confidence whilst training at maintenance, and because that actually strength provides you with confidence, and then looking at that longevity element, that's empowering. That's sexy. Fuck the dieting, actually. Training at maintenance is the sexiest fucking thing you could be doing. I a hundred percent agree. And it's I I definitely feel like I've shifted that way. Like a lot of my clients, most of my clients now have been with me for years, and they're them, they're I don't really have that many clients who are chasing fat loss anymore. Like we're mostly heading into maintenance because they've they've done that work, and it's just such an exciting place to be. And I think also people get people get it wrong with maintenance as they think, oh, I'll just go back to what I was doing before. Like it's not that you still have to put in the work and above average physique. You need to put in above average work, and it's always going to be the case, but you can do that with enough food in the system, and it just makes everything so much more fun and exciting. And so you're saying that we can recover better. Like, honestly, when we've been dieting, I know for both of us that activity level does not really change. And you feel like fucking shit at the end of the day, like it's that's you know, and and also like let's be totally open and honest on that. Like, this is our job, and we l work and live in fitness and we breathe and eat it. But like someone that's got children, like, probably couldn't do the diets that me and Tasha put ourselves through, and it's not that's not, you know, if we look back at periods of our time where we've done it probably quite unhealthily at periods, you know. We've pushed ourselves to a brink where it hasn't been ideal. But what we're saying is don't don't do that. Definitely don't do that. It doesn't, you doesn't it's not necessary. No, it's not necessary. And actually, my clients that have had the most successful results are the ones that have, yes, they've they've been in a diet for maybe a long time. Like if someone's got 30 kilos to lose, I'm honest and I'm like, look, realistically, if you want to keep this off, this is gonna take two years. And those are the ones that are the most successful, and they like the time's gonna pass anyway. You can either try and do it fast and probably end up stuck in a cycle, or you can just really commit and say, look, I'm just actually gonna change my lifestyle. And two years passes in a blink of an eye, really. It really does. And you have created or you've become a version of yourself in that time that you're so proud of. And again, it comes back to that identity. It's not just, it's not a diet, it's a whole way of life and a way of being. And that is where you're gonna keep those results long term and actually then be able to maintain. A big key takeaway from that is that you have to be able to maintain what you have lost. Okay. And I think why we see, you know, big percentage of people that diet don't aren't able to carry on and keep it off because they haven't built in the habits successfully and they haven't done the right work. And being slower in the process actually allows you to build the habits in. You know, habits don't just get built up overnight and suddenly, okay, on switch, off switch. You know, it doesn't work like that. You have to be doing them on repeat consistently over time. Every single time you don't want to do it, you are and you are doing it, you're bringing a vote in for yourself for the person that you actually do want to show up as. Eventually, that embodies or starts to become part of your person or personality and your habits and your lifestyle. And again, it's that identity shift. Yeah, and I think we both coach in the same way is what's the point in getting you a result if you can't keep it? Ultimately, that's just a waste of time. And I would much rather, as I said, the slow way is the fast way. I always preach it. I would much rather do something in a more sustainable manner that's actually going to work for someone and make them feel really great about what they're doing and help them really stack that evidence on top, on top, on top, and see those little changes. And over time, that becomes a lot because they're just living life. And honestly, when you live life, time passes really fast. And it just is automatic. It's because they ingrain those habits into themselves, into their their lives, into themselves. It just, yeah, you don't you almost don't even think about it. And then the time passes, and then a year later, shit, I've lost 20 kg or however much you need to lose. And it's it's just you've just done it whilst living your life. I think that's the most important part. Final thoughts. I've I've closed it down. I just like, should we wrap it up? Yeah. So if you guys are listening to this and you're in maintenance, or maybe you really, really want to be in maintenance, but you're scared of being in maintenance, I get it, I was there. I want you to hear this. You're not stuck, you're not failing, you don't need to constantly be chasing a smaller version of yourself to justify your efforts. But magic happens on the other side of maintenance. It might feel a little bit uncomfortable for, I don't know, a couple of weeks. And really, I say that from recent experience. It's not going to feel uncomfortable for a long time, but it will feel uncomfortable. And without discomfort, we don't grow. But I promise you, once you push through that, it is so worth it. You can grow to your most confident, most empowered self at maintenance. You just have to trust the process and allow the process to be slower than maybe that you first envisioned. And that's okay. But if you can't keep the physique at maintenance, if you can't keep your habits at maintenance and you're constantly yo-yoing back and forth, then you're not really living. You're not living to your fullest potential. So learn to embrace maintenance with open arms and realize that actually training at maintenance, living at maintenance is the sexiest thing that you could be doing. Honestly, it's the most empowering goal of all. Thanks so much, guys, for listening. And we will see you next week. Please make sure to subscribe and follow the podcast if you haven't already. And if you want to chat about maintenance or chat about anything, I'll leave our Instagram bios in the description and our DMs are always open. Thanks, guys. Have a good one.