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The Art & Heart of CX
Dedicated to celebrating leaders shaping Customer Experience (CX) across a variety of dynamic industries, including events, community groups, venues, retail, travel, the arts and sport, The Art & Heart of CX welcomes a special guest each episode to chat all things CX.
Consumers and guests are more discerning than ever and we all have the power to enhance (or diminish) the Customer Experience.
Whether you’re seeking fresh ideas, a dose of inspiration or a peek into the latest trends, this podcast will be for you.
Each episode provides insightful stories, practical tips and a behind-the-scenes look at what’s driving exceptional customer experiences in different sectors.
The Art & Heart of CX
The Badminton Horse Trials
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Step behind the scenes of one of the world's most prestigious equestrian events as Event Director Jane Tuckwell reveals the remarkable complexity of managing the Badminton Horse Trials. From its humble beginnings in 1949 as a training opportunity following Britain's poor Olympic showing, to today's spectacular gathering of over 100,000 spectators on cross-country day, this conversation unveils the invisible Customer Experience framework supporting this iconic sporting event.
What truly distinguishes Badminton is its masterful balance of evolution and tradition. The 1970s marked a transformation from specialist competition to public spectacle, driven by Royal Family involvement, commercial vision and expanded media coverage. Today, managing modern spectator expectations while maintaining the event's essential character requires constant adaptation, from traffic management systems to sustainability initiatives.
Whether you're a dedicated equestrian enthusiast or someone who manages events or Customer Experience of any scale, this conversation offers invaluable wisdom about creating exceptional experiences. As Jane perfectly summarizes: "Just because something worked for 20 years doesn't mean it'll work for 21."
Listen now to discover how this philosophy of continuous improvement helps Badminton remain at the pinnacle of international eventing while never losing sight of what truly matters.
https://www.badminton-horse.co.uk/
Georgie Stayches, host of The Art & Heart of CX, brings a human lens to how businesses design Customer Experience (CX). She explores how every little detail impacts how a customer interprets, experiences and recalls a situation - from our senses to the built and natural environments - and how this can impact brand loyalty, word of mouth marketing and revenue.
Each episode she invites a special guess from all works of life and industries to share what they consider the art and hear of CX.
Want to hear more from Georgie? Her keynote presentations inspire audiences with real-world strategies to elevate CX, understand human behaviour and build lasting audience loyalty.
Find out more at georgiestayches.com
Introduction to Badminton Horse Trials
Speaker 1I'm very excited to be bringing this podcast from Badminton and with event director Jane, who I'm so thrilled, tuck Welter that, jane, you're joining us here to chat about the Badminton Horse Trials which, for anyone who is not aware, I think you're one of three that formed the Grand Prix internationally. Is that correct? Yeah?
Speaker 2yes, in fact the grand slam has just stopped happening because rolex are no longer sponsoring it, but it was kentucky, burley and ourselves.
Speaker 1Yes, yep, and for those not from the equestrian world, the horse trials can see it's eventing. So there's three phases of dressage cross-country and show jumping, and, and we're in. Well, which county are we in here? We're in Gloucestershire. We are in Gloucestershire.
Speaker 2I've just come from Wiltshire. Yeah, just Just.
Speaker 1And the horse trials I first became familiar with when I worked at the Melbourne International Horse Trials, or the Melbourne Three Day Event as it's often known, because we would always hear about what you did and you know you were sort of our aspiring because there was so much that your horse trials do well. So before we get into it, because I'm really keen to know how you manage such a large event with, when we talk about customer experience, you've sort of got spectators but you've got sponsors and of course you've got riders and horses. Really that you need to think about. But the history if we go back to the history, it was started in 1949, that was correct by the Duke of Beaufort originally to let British riders train for international events.
Speaker 2Yes, well, he went to the Olympics in 1948 and was rather horrified how badly the Brits did and then offered badminton for them to have an event. Yes, and also, over the years, train. There's been a lot of training at badminton training sessions and that's literally how it started. So, yeah, it's all thanks to the 10th Duke of Beaufort that we're sitting here today.
Speaker 1Yes, so there would have been more of a competition then, I guess.
Speaker 2It was a competition Than an event. Yeah, yeah, it was. You know it's similar to today. I mean, the bare bones of it haven't changed. It was dressage, cross-country and show jumping and roads and tracks and things Of course changed. It was dressage, cross-country and show jumping and roads and tracks and things of course it was a much longer competition in those days yes on saturday, but yeah, it's great.
Speaker 2It's grown from that and it was run by. So eventing itself comes from the military, the, you know. It comes from the charger, the horse and in fact, the organization of Babington. The first people involved with it were people who were post-war colonels and majors and it was run on a very military yes, and I think funny. I think in a sort of way it's still. It has still got that little undercurrent theme of it Because one of those people was actually my father so and I worked with those people is actually my father so and I worked with those people and I think we've still got that. It's almost that sort of I'm what's the word I'm looking for. I can't think what I'm trying to say. It's that you know we, we're very disciplined yes, I think yes, the word and we work if we say we're going to do something in the air by it.
Speaker 2You know we get quite upset if we don't hit that goal.
Speaker 1That's right, and then that all helps to being ready on the day, really, yes, and I mean, events are complex at any point in time, let alone when you have is it half a million people. You no, Wait, no.
Speaker 2Is that a figure that he's adding?
Speaker 1That's a figure that's out there, Okay because I found that figure a few times. But on cross-country day and for those of you listening who don't know about eventing cross-country is the horses jumping as they go around a cross-country course, so it's a longer course. How many do you get on cross-country day? We get over 100,000. 100,000, which is just in any event 100,000, but when you have horses going at top speed and riders really in the zone.
Speaker 2Yeah, and I think it's probably one of the. It's extraordinary how close the spectator can get to that. Yes, you know the fence can be. You and I aren't sitting that far away from each other and that would be sort of you know. It wouldn't be much further away than you are when the horse gallops by, or whatever that's right, so you get a real feel of being part of it all.
Speaker 1Yes, and because what I'm really interested in is, as I said, having worked on some horse trials of sort of, when it went from being more a competition to when those crowds of spectators started to come in.
Speaker 2I think that really started.
Evolution from Competition to Public Event
Speaker 2I think the royal family had a huge factor in that the Queen, her Majesty the Queen, was always very keen on coming to Badminton, queen Elizabeth II and she was a great friend of the Duke of Beaufort of the time and they used to come for the whole weekend and ride out around the park, et cetera.
Speaker 2So that was the first thing and you have to remember, in those days media wasn't what it was now and people. You could not see the Royal Family, yes, unless you saw them in person. And for weeks before, and of course in those days the telephone would be the main way of communicating, or a letter, and so people I mean I can remember being here and every other question was will the Queen be there, which is charming actually, yes, and then of course the Princess Royal, as she is now, she got involved and started riding. And I think those were two of the factors and I think the third factor was the then director, somebody called Colonel Frank Weldon. And I think the third factor was the then director, somebody called Colonel Frank Weldon, and his foresight into what the commercial side there was the opportunity to have shops, and I mean when I first started I think there were 60, 70, 80 shops.
Speaker 2And now we've got well. If you take in all the ones in the big tents, we've got sort of 400 or 500 shops.
Speaker 1Wow, Not to mention the sponsor areas and the hospitality and all those other elements that come with a big event like this yeah.
Speaker 2So you know he had a huge bearing on. He saw it and he pushed it out and made it public aware and it just in in the 70s, it just went huge.
Speaker 1That's when it yes, yeah, and to go from being, you know, a competition of sorts to then being an event where you've now got to consider not just the riders and the course, but you've got to consider the public who are coming here and are wanting to watch. How has that sort of evolved and informed the way the event is run?
Speaker 2Well, you have to where it sits. Now, people always laugh when I say this, but I quantify it very quickly that the smallest cog in the whole thing of Badminton is the horse and the rider. Yes, but of course it's the largest. Yes, yes, it is the horse and the rider. Yes, but of course it's the largest. Yes, yes, it's the most important, or should I say? And so the horse doesn't really the horse, the competition bit doesn't really play a big part in our lives until about the beginning of february. Yeah, we have to do the schedule a bit earlier, but that, honestly, you know the ground and things has been worked on, but not on a day to day basis. It's much more, all as you say, about getting everything ready for selling the tickets at the beginning of the year. So if you're opening your box office in January, you really have to be organised by Christmas, because you can't set your prices for the box office until that's. You know everything, you know your prices, so you're, you know one.
Speaker 2One event now almost runs into the next and actually, I've just come out of a meeting and and the people in the meeting were saying, well, we need that by next month, and I think, goodness, I didn't used to work in the summer yes, and we should say we're recording this in june and you've just held it in may.
Speaker 1It's held each year in may.
Speaker 2May and it's very much now a case of you have a snowball and you create that snowball all the way up to Christmas and it gets bigger and bigger and bigger and then literally what you haven't put in place by Christmas a new thing. You will have no chance in this organisation of getting it in place before that event in the spring. So then, after Christmas, we give it a little nudge down the hill and we try and keep up with it.
Speaker 1Yes, oh my gosh, and it's because it's an event in three parts. Well, it's an event in three parts, so you have dressage, that is, you know, held in fixed place areas that the public can, you know, can, come and see, and you have grandstands and things. Then you have cross country We'll come back to that and then you have show jumping. Once again, it's in a fixed arena, so it's a little bit more manageable. But cross country is a whole other thing on its own, because it is a moving course and it's several kilometers and the public move from jump to jump or there's always the popular jumps that people race to to get their spot. How, what's the process?
Speaker 1you go through with the because you've got a course designer so you're designing the course with the riders in mind, but you're also designing it.
Speaker 2You need to think about the spectators.
Speaker 2So obviously the course designer, Eric Winter, designs his course primarily with the horse and rider in mind and the safety factor, et cetera, but very close behind that, as the event has evolved, a much wider audience attend the event over the years and they don't necessarily want to walk five miles around a cross-country course. So it's become much more condensed. So you can go to one, you walk a distance and then you'll get to a place where actually you can see three or four or five fences. And then also, equally important, when he's designing his course he has to think of the TV, because that's highly important for the sponsors, because a lot of the fences are sponsored and catching the banners, et cetera.
Speaker 2So no, I think it's fair to say about the whole event, everything has become much more complicated, but because it's evolved and it was on the right footing due to those people right at the beginning, it's quite an easy path.
Speaker 1Yes, but it's, and as you say, I mean it is events, but particularly one of this nature does take that military precision and I think to have that foresight to understand. Obviously the course is built for the riders and the horse, but to understand those needs of the spectators, and I remember working at Melbourne that if the public saw a fence they wanted to get to you know a jump we call it fences they wanted to get to, they would jump over an existing fence in the way you know a jump.
Speaker 2We call it fences. They wanted to get to.
Speaker 1They would jump over an existing fence in the way you know, and that would be our challenge.
Speaker 2I mean, you've always got to have what they call pedestrian flow.
Speaker 1Yes, yes, you must never send pedestrians into a dead end.
Speaker 2The biggest challenge for Paris was just that. Yes, because of the canals and I was lucky enough to spectate that, and they did an amazing job but all one or two places they couldn't help it, and it does.
Speaker 1It is, then, a challenge yes, I remember we had a yeah, a dead end of a path and then and people don't backtrack they just crossed, you know, and the poor spectator crossing people would be trying to stop them and it would be a nightmare. How many do you have volunteers? How many volunteers do you have?
Speaker 2Well, we've never really counted up, but I think over the it's somewhere between 700 and 800 volunteers. I mean, obviously, most of them are required for the Saturday and we are the first to recognise that without them we'd be in a very difficult position. Having said that, most of them love being part of it. I think I can be brave enough to say that, but we are very, very grateful to them.
Speaker 2What I think, think I think what you know, since I've sort of been doing it in a way, is that and and the people before me, but it's sort of creating this almost family feel, so that everybody has feels they're part of it. Yes, and they're not just being drafted in and giving people ownership of things is really important, because if you didn't delegate and you didn't give people ownership of things, well, you wouldn't stand a chance in hell, to be honest, no, absolutely.
Managing 100,000 Cross-Country Spectators
Speaker 1And when we talk about customer experience, which is really just a term for doing things well and in this occasion for know, occasion for spectators, but for the riders it starts with the staff and volunteers that, if they are trained and nurtured and empowered and happy, that flows on.
Speaker 2Yeah, definitely and honestly. Hugh Thomas, who I took over from and worked closely with for many years. He and I have always said to each other the most important thing is who you choose to go into that job. Yes, because if you get that right, you never have to think about it again. If you get it wrong, it's a nightmare for them.
Speaker 1It's a nightmare for you.
Speaker 2And then you both want to get out of it, but you don't quite know how to get out of it. Yes, and I love that thing. I love actually a recent one is the loos. So we wanted somebody to be our loos steward. Yes, and so this chap, who'd been helping in other ways, said you know, jane, if a sort of job comes up which take up a bit more of my time, you know, do, let me know. And I thought, well, I wonder if he'd do that.
Speaker 2Because he's the most lovely guy. Yes, and I mean, he's got a very high-powered job. Yes, something you know. Yes, and I rang him up one day and I said I've got a really funny one here for you. It would. It wouldn't be my loose Stuart, would it? And you know he absolutely loves it. Yes, he's entered into the spirit of it in absolutely the right way. Of course. All my problems have gone away.
Speaker 1Yes, yeah, but if you get that wrong, Correct.
Speaker 1Yes, and I know we spoke previous to this about the toilet situation for particularly for volunteers, because I know at Melbourne you would, you know, we would send them off, you know, at sort of 6.30 in the morning and they wouldn't come back until 3pm, 4pm, and they are out on a six kilometre course and there's no toilets nearby and you can't leave your spot because you've just got that constant stream of, you know, depending on the class, they could be two minutes, you know three minutes, whatever it is apart, and so they would have a flying loo.
Speaker 1And I remember when I first started working I thought, oh my gosh, this is fantastic, this flying loo, which was a portable toilet on the back of a you know four wheel drive that drove around but it and they would also have tea and coffee in the van and chocolates, and it meant the world. And you'd hear people on the radio saying you know, this is jump 16, is the loo nearby? Because that is what you know makes or breaks an experience. And I know people who've worked on different cross countries not that one where they said I'll never go back. They sent me off in the start of the day and I never saw anyone and you know I had to pop into the bushes to yeah, no, we do.
Speaker 2We provide a loo or a toilet beside each complex of fences. We have to also tell them to have a padlock or something to put on it, or we put a padlock on it because, of course, one loo in the middle of nowhere you know all the other people on site want to use it, but what we can't do at Badminton and we make this very clear is we look after our volunteers in different ways to make up for it, but no way can we feed and water all our volunteers of course, because we just can't get them out.
Speaker 1Yes, yes, that is the problem.
Speaker 2Yeah, just can't get about. Yes, yes, that is the problem. Yeah, and also nowadays, I think in the old days, but people thought it was quite fun seeing vehicles charging here, and people don't like it now. No, no, it's not part of the and, again, it's not safe.
Speaker 1No, health and safety yes, yes, I remember we used to send people off with their lunches in the morning and I'd say you know it couldn't have. I would be really stricken say I can't have any meat in the sandwich because you know it's going to sit there exactly. And then I remember one year my partner and sister volunteered and that eaten their whole lunch by sort of 9 am. You know what do we eat now? But it's so small touches, isn't it just that, that people feel I haven't been forgotten that.
Speaker 1I am being looked after and I'm part of the family here.
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah definitely perfect.
Speaker 1So you have, you know 800, 500, 800 volunteers, when, where do they come from and what's the process of how you recruit? And I might just your microphone may have just slipped.
Speaker 2Is that better? Yes, perfect, it's evolved, I think is the easiest way. I mean, a lot of the people helping today would be descendants of the people that helped in 1949, the horsemen from around the area. Yes, we try and recruit our volunteers mainly from within a close proximity about, and there's always the exception for all sorts for a, because I think you have more affinity with the area and the event if you are local and you feel it's your event. Yes, but also from a practical point of view of briefings and things you don't. If you're asking people to come for a briefing, you're asking to come 300 miles across england, come to it. You feel a little bit guilty, quite honestly, and it puts an extra onus on the whole thing and you don't have to rack your brains very hard to think of the right person to do the right job, yep yeah.
Speaker 1Yep, yeah. So we've spoken about how it's evolved and how sort of the element of the spectators went boom in the 70s. How have spectator behaviours in your time changed? Do you find that spectators and consumers are expecting more because they go to other things? You know everything's kind of raising the bar, and then what's that flow on effect here?
Speaker 2Definitely the expectations of spectators have raised. I think that is is twofold. I think, as the event evolved and has evolved, it's brought in a lot more people from outside, maybe even the countryside.
Speaker 2They may be not used to being in the countryside as much as people in the past were, so they're not used to not finding just what they want at their fingertips. Yes, you know that the fact it is a muddy field, which basically it is. I mean, I had a classic when we had a bad year two or three years ago. Somebody said, well, I never found the car park. Well, actually they were parked in the car park because they were looking for a con. Yes, and that's not a criticism in any way whatsoever. I think, alongside the expectations, the health and safety side has grown so much. You know that you've got much more input from local councils and what have you, and a lot of that. It is actually common sense. And, of course, if you have got a lot of people on site in this day and age, you have to make sure it is safe.
Speaker 1Yes so.
Speaker 2I don't. I feel rather mean. I think it's rather. I feel rather mean when I say people's expectations has raised, because it sounds a rather sort of pompous thing to say but I don't, I don't think it's that. I think it's the way we all are evolving. Yes, you know, it's like I would never you would never have expected a shop to be open on Sunday in this country. Now, if a shop isn't open on Sunday.
Speaker 1You're quite cross about it.
Speaker 2And it's all that, rather than people coming and suddenly expecting Badminton to be better or what have you?
Speaker 1It's what's part of their everyday life that influences what they think they'll find here, yes, and with the spectators that come, and, as you said, you have spectators come that this might be their first time at an event like this in the countryside. You've sort of got two cultures, haven't you? Because you've got the spectators from the equestrian world, who have their own behaviours and their own. You know, they understand how events work, but they might also be used to. You know, events are a little bit more, I won't say relaxed, but don't have the infrastructure perhaps and the requirements of this because it is such a big event.
The Volunteer Experience
Speaker 1And so you're dealing with them and I've certainly known in my experiences. You know they expect to walk the course, but we can't walk the course because other things are happening. Or you know they come off the horse, so they expect well, I can just walk back the course with the horse, which they might be able to do it, as you know, another one, but then. So you've got that happening, but then you have people who are coming from outside the equestrian sector that this might be their first time at an equestrian event and learning about horse crossings and sort of the do's and don'ts of yes, I think that's I would.
Speaker 2I think it's laid out in a way that that is not a worry to them. Yes, I think it's a natural thing. You know the hook for it, like you will know the course. Worry to them? Yes, I think it's a natural thing you know. Like you will know, the course is strung yes, and there's a great big sign saying spectator crossing point. Yes, for instance, I think sometimes it's harder on the.
Speaker 1I think it's harder on the slightly smaller events so your four star longs and your three stars at a country estate and I think if the spectator has been to a Babington or a Burley yes, it's quite hard, because they're a bit apt to expect the same when they go yes, I remember going from Melbourne to one in Western Victoria where I had been roped into Jump Judge and they have very few spectators, so it's mainly the competitors, but just watching, you know there was no fences, there was no pedestrian fences, there was obviously the horse jumps in the fences and yeah, and I thought but where do people walk?
Speaker 1and they just walked all over the course and I was mortified. But but the people there knew, you know because they were from. That's right, but I thought if someone came that didn't know this it would be. They'd be quite surprised yes, yeah, yeah even me walking to my jump, I was like where do I hide?
Speaker 2like I'm kind of quite exposed yes, yes, no, and I think overall, people are. I think people are grateful for what they get.
Speaker 1Yes, yeah, and we talked about the lose obviously is an important one, particularly because it isn't, you know, these are long events and they're out in the countryside. What do you find are the sort of small changes that you've made, or small elements, that actually have the biggest impact?
Speaker 2I think we've evolved over the years and continue to evolve our traffic plan. Yes, that's had a big effect on people getting in easily. Yes, that's quite a big one, is that?
Speaker 1getting in and out of the car park.
Speaker 2Yes.
Speaker 1Yes, I've almost been run over in a car park at the end of a cross-country day, even in my high-vis vest trying to manage it, and people were just yeah, I think sustainability has a bit of an impact.
Speaker 2I mean, I think it's beginning to be recognised that sustainability on a greenfield site is a very hard thing to we're just sorting out the microphone.
Speaker 1There we go.
Speaker 2That might stay now. I think sorry, yeah, sustainability on a greenfield site is not an easy thing.
Speaker 1No.
Speaker 2Because you've got to bring in generators and you've got to bring in, yes, you can yes.
Speaker 2You know it's not easy. So how we try and cope with it is we try and use and do use on the whole, local contractors, yes, so the footprint isn't so great going back and forth and I think. But you know, then obviously we do it with litter and paper and making sure that's sustainable, but I think that's had quite a big effect. And I think also, you know, on the eventing itself. On eventing I don't know if you've got the same in australia, but you know the social license of being allowed to carry on with these horse sports and and telling that story of actually horses doing what they are doing, beautifully looked after, yes, and do, I dare say, actually enjoy what they're doing. But you know, it's all part of it's all things you've all got to be the things I mean.
Speaker 2If you talk about those things today, if you'd said that to me in 1980. Yes, I would have been a foreign language, I would have thought what on earth are you talking about? So it's little things like that that have crept in, that have played quite a big part in, yes, your production of the event. Yeah, you know, like, so again, with the social license, the fragile pins, that's made a huge difference on the fences because they now collapse, which means horses and riders touch wood, do not have horrendous force yes, yes, and that's part of the storytelling, isn't it?
Speaker 1Because the more popular as an event you get, the more people from outside the equestrian come in and you engage through that storytelling. And that has you know. I have seen that in Australia and we often look to the UK to see what's happening with, particularly around the social licence, and we feel it, you know, coming to us and so we would.
Speaker 2You know there'd be a lot of talk around that education of the perception versus yeah, and I think you know people, if big events do it right, if we do it right, I think people do learn from it being done right. I think it does dribble down through and, and because it's a lot of life is about sort of fashion, isn't it you?
Speaker 2know, it's what's the thing to do of the moment, and you can, you know, we were one of the first with the frangible pins at this level and it's done a lot, I think, to help. Yes, other, you know, bring other events into it and using it and that technology, etc.
Speaker 1Yeah, and do you find, with technology, that that's the other thing? Yeah, I was gonna say that technology is coming in more and more and there's an expectation. People go to events and there's an app and I can find this and I can find that, yes yeah, but I think also you don't want to lose the personal touch.
Speaker 2No, yeah, I think machines.
Speaker 1It's that blend, isn't it?
Speaker 2Yeah, machines can do. Computers, all these things can do an awful lot for you, yes, but there are certain things that, yes, I mean, I have just finished writing, literally just finished writing thank you letters, of which an awful lot of them are handwritten, gosh. But writing thank you letters, of which an awful lot of them are handwritten gosh, but no, but it. It's relationship building, isn't it? It's what they're worth their weight, absolutely yes. No, I was just thinking of your hands.
Speaker 1But you're right, because there's so many things that are just automated now. I mean, even I see it with, you know proposals or invoices, it's just automated, there's no personal touch to it.
Speaker 2Now and for an event of this, legacy, and that's only you know, grows in stature well, we ask those tiny yeah, we are sitting in our box office where two people sit for most of the year. They have a bit of extra help towards the end, when it first opens and you can ring up and you can talk to the box office. Yes, yep, and they know that you had the pitch number 20 in field 11 or whatever it might be the year before, and I think to me, once that goes, all will be lost.
Speaker 2Yes yeah, yeah, and it's something I bang the drum on quite a lot Exactly.
Speaker 1And in this era, people are craving that connection and that personal touch, because there's certainly a lot of research and commentary coming out that, as the more AI and technology increase and not to say they're all bad things, no, no, some of them are very good and very helpful, exactly and not to say they're all bad things, no, no, some of them are very good and very helpful, exactly but more people will actually crave that interpersonal connection. And as we sit in the box office, I'm looking at the caravan side and my mind is just boggling at all the logistics around that. So you have people, obviously, you have the spectators, but then obviously you have the people coming to stay. You have the stabling, yeah, all the logistics that go with that and all those groups that you need to interact with.
Speaker 2Yeah, I mean I think you know we write to everybody. It starts off in the autumn, really, when we write Andrew Tucker, the commercial director. He writes to most of the contractors and then something goes from him and then all the rest of the people. A letter goes from me.
Changing Spectator Expectations
Speaker 2And that's almost your first moment of contact and there's always different areas that need addressing each year. So you know, in one year it might be the campsite that you think, gosh, that's just dropped behind a bit or whatever, and you'll put quite a lot of energy and time into talking to that team. And then the following couple of years that's fine and it's rocking and rolling along and you really don't have an awful lot to do with it, if I dare say. But then it'll be something like the next year. It could be improving the ticketing or improving the website. So there's always different projects every year, but you cannot, you would never, ever be able to work on every project you know to the very full each year or have an input, and you shouldn't need to, because your team is good enough that they take it on and do it.
Speaker 1And sort of leading on from that, you know the different projects that you work on and, as you say, it just constantly evolves. What do you do? Feedback? Do you do surveys with spectators? I mean, there's spectators that will give their feedback regardless and riders who?
Speaker 2will give their feedback regardless.
Speaker 1But how do you sort of pull that together? So we have people.
Speaker 2We do do surveys. We haven't done one for a bit, actually, truth be known, but we do do surveys. I am a great believer of saying to people all the time please, please, if there's anything wrong, send me an email and tell us, tell us. We cannot improve unless you tell us yes. And even during the event, you know when. But when we have our briefings with the before the event leading into it doctors, vets I say, look, if there's something wrong during the event, please come and tell me. Or come and tell a member of the team, because actually quite often we can put it right there. And then when somebody comes to you three months later and says, oh Jane, did you realise? Dah, dah, dah, and you think, oh well, why didn't you tell me?
Speaker 2Yes yes, and sometimes you move one thing on the ground and we obviously always try and make sure what the knock-on effect will be, but sometimes you miss it and it's things like that. So you actually need to be thinking on your feet to do something about it straight away. But I'm just a great believer and it's an awful lot to do with running any event. I mean, it doesn't matter what event you're running, because this could be you could put this to it's communication.
Speaker 2It's being approachable and communication. Yes, yep, you know, and I think then you're halfway there.
Speaker 1Exactly. Yes, oh, I couldn't agree more. And with that communication, I mean, there's clear that there's a heart in these horse trials that I think make them so special as it grows each year, can you? I mean, obviously there's the popularity and there's the legacy and the history of it, but each year can you sort of look at it and think why it just keeps getting bigger?
Speaker 2Well, I was taught something in the first year I worked here, all those years ago that just because it works for 20 years doesn't mean it'll work for 21. Yes, yep, and it's honestly as simple as that. Yes, and if you're always looking to change, you're always saying to yourself and don't you know? I mean, I sometimes do, I dare say this very quietly no, but you know, sometimes somebody comes to you with an idea and they catch you just off guard and then you think, no, actually that's a jolly good idea. They're not all good ideas. No, but if you can explain why it isn't a good idea or say well, we'll think about that, We'll look at it at next year's event.
Speaker 2Yes, but never, never be frightened of change. Yes, yep, and I think also, I think, particularly I think, because it involves an animal. So it's not just about the athlete. Yes, every event is different. Yes, Every event has its own story to tell. So every year you're starting a new chapter.
Speaker 1Yeah, yep, is it. And with that, when people come to your ideas because I imagine there's things that you test and you go, okay, well, we tested it, it didn't work Are there ones that have surprised you, that you thought, and it could be the smallest of changes where you think, oh, you know, we'll give it a go, I don't think it'll work, but it actually has surprised you?
Speaker 2Yeah, definitely. I can't think of any now, but I think there's more of those than the big ones probably because the big ones have a lot of thought put into them. Yes, and it's extraordinary, you know. I first admit I actually can't think of one this year. But you go out and you're doing something during the event and somebody says, oh well, I'm just going to go and put that post over there. And you say so, what do you mean about put?
Speaker 1that post. I mean, this is a stupid example. No, no, you know where I'm coming from, absolutely well, I never knew that happened and I think that's also what's so good about it.
Speaker 2Yes, you know there has to be trust. Yes, you have to. If you give somebody a job, you've got to trust them to do it. Yep, yeah, and give them the confidence to do it too, because that's what life's about a lot of it, isn't it Exactly?
Speaker 1yeah, it's confidence.
Speaker 2Yes, and I think you know, from my own point of view, it's helped that I have done every job possible in this office, I think, and I think that when you're dealing with a team, you know when you're given. It actually doesn't happen so much now, but when you're given 100 envelopes to stuff or 1,000 envelopes to stuff, you think, oh God, I remember what it was like having to do that and it gives you much more feeling about it instead of just passing it over, saying and being rather cross because it's not done in 20 minutes instead of 30 minutes or whatever.
Speaker 1And I think oh, I'm going again.
Speaker 2Oh, where's it gone?
Speaker 1And staff and volunteers respond to that they can sniff out when they've just been you know, tossed a job that has sort of gone down the ranks. They know anyone and in events we all pitch in, yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, you know you can be sort of doing the high-level strategy and then you're, you know, removing some Scrubbing out the loose.
Speaker 1Exactly, yes, literally yeah, with the. Have you noticed in the last few years, or even coming back from COVID, a change in how the spectators, in their behaviours? I know in Australia we certainly see ticket buying behaviours have changed. So people buy really last minute now.
Speaker 2Well, since COVID we've gone to advance tickets only funnily enough, so we've gone the other way. Anyway, you can buy them up to the midnight of the day before. Because and actually COVID helped that education yes, because you had to book everything in advance and COVID did just speed up a lot of.
Speaker 1Covid sped up trends that were already happening or things that were all going to put it sort of brought people to it a lot faster, I think.
Technology vs Personal Touch
Speaker 2Who was I talking to? I was talking to somebody about Royal Ascot yesterday. Actually, I think it's taken in my personal experience at Babington. I think this year's event is the first one that's felt like 2019 did. Right. I think it's taken a long time, yes, to get all the roots really dead deeply. We missed two events and so you lost that continuity. There weren't the horses about, there weren't the riders about. This year we were oversubscribed again and I just feel it's sort of. I just feel there's much more depth there again. Now it all felt a bit shallow for a year or two and a bit. Oh God, are we going to be all right and having trust that COVID wasn't going to come and knock you for six again? That's right, yes yeah.
Speaker 2But I think there is more.
Speaker 1Yes, yep, and we've spoken about spectators a bit, but kind of just, you know, as you say, the riders are the smallest but the biggest part.
Speaker 2Have their behavi behaviors changed and what they? Yes, yeah, yeah, definitely not, not in a bad way at all. Their expectations from their owners and their sponsors is higher, so they've got under a lot more pressure. Yes, the horse is far more valuable than it used to be which even if they don't want it to put pressure on them, it does.
Speaker 2The care of the horse. Quite rightly, they've become more and more prominent and important. And what you facilitate for the horse, they I mean years ago they would go to about three big events. I mean they go, they come here, they go to bramham in june. Probably they might have gone to or they might have gone to, but there were far less, it was much more. We go to babington with the fart within a four-star horse, whatever it was, yes, and then we go to bur Burley and then we come back to Babington. They're on much more of a roundabout or a. You know, they're here and they're gone. And I don't think in a funny sort of way and maybe this is my fault, but I don't think it is I mean I have got, I hope, you know I get on really well, I hope, with the riders and I'm very fond of them all. But you don't have that same bond in a way, because they're busier.
Speaker 1You don't have the time.
Speaker 2They don't have the time and you don't have the time in a way, and they're thinking about oh well, next week I'm riding five horses, yes, novice, whatever, yes, and they've got you know. So they're moving on all the time. We're much more part, we're a smaller, although we're a very big part of the journey in the air.
Speaker 1Once it's gone, it's gone, yes, in a way and they're on to the next one, and they're on to the next one. And so that then impacts or sort of informs, I guess, how you're planning with the riders knowing, with the riders knowing they, you know their schedules are very different to what they used to be, and so you sort of align your you know when you the registrations and all the sort of logistics, that happens with the riders, that's about the same, to be honest, because it's governed by the FEI, the governing body when the entries have to close.
Speaker 2Actually, we closed the entries a week earlier than we used to because, well, we used to close them six weeks before, which is the statutory time. Yes, and I turned around and said, look, this is ridiculous. You know if you're going to run a horse in the derby, you know you're going to run the horse in the derby and now you have to check all qualifications and things much more. And it's almost gone full circle, because electronically that's much easier now. But why put ourselves in this tight position? You know, if they, if they decide to withdraw immediately, you know they'll get most of the prize, most of the entry fee back. And yeah, what you know, seven days isn't. You're either coming or you're not coming.
Speaker 1Yes, yes, you're ready. Quite honestly, and as the event grows, because you know an event like this could just keep growing. But there's that balance of not losing, not making it so big that people can't actually get close to a jump, which is the essence. It won't keep growing, or they can't, no. So how do you do? You cap it?
Speaker 2Do you, do you cap it? You've sort of got your non-negotiables we cap the number of cars In 2023,. We had a very big crowd and we sold out that year and it was okay, it was dry and it was good. But it's not only you've got to allow, you know. You've got to allow for getting the traffic in. Yes, and if people don't get here till which happened in that year, I think it was that, you know, if people are very late getting in because the traffic is so bad and the lanes, the surrounding lanes, can't take it, or the traffic management can't take it, that's not good. And then you can only have, say, you're in a 500 acre thing on Saturday yes, you've got that concentrated middle with the trade stands and the members and the arena and things, or you can't. If you, it never pays to be greedy no, yeah, and you don't want people to come. So actually, we capped the cross-country this year. Yeah, slightly below what it was that year. Yes, yep, and you want people to come and have a good time and enjoy exactly.
Speaker 1You don't want to lose the essence of what has made it popular. No, and you just touched on you know it's so important around. Customer experience starts well, I mean, it starts at the first touch point is when they go to buy the tickets. Yeah, and the fact that you've got someone that they can call. There's that human interaction. But for an event like this, it's the getting into the car. Well, it's getting to the venue, getting to the property, getting into the car park and getting out of the car park. So you know, people can have the best day, but if they're stuck in the car park for an hour.
Tips for Creating Exceptional Events
Speaker 2That's what they're going to remember. That's the last thing they remember, Exactly.
Speaker 1And they say oh no, I'm not going there, that took me an hour to get out last year.
Speaker 2You know it's the music. Oh, I was in by nine o'clock. I go, oh, well done.
Speaker 1And it's always getting them out of the car park because, you know, I think in the morning everyone is heightened and then there's that tendency of when cross-country finishes and it's finished safely and every rider and horse has got back safely and every volunteer has got back safely, but it's like, but the big job is still, you know, we still have a big job is to get everyone out of the car park and the weather can help you a lot of that.
Speaker 2It's a nice evening yes people relax and stay and have an extra drink or go around the trade stands one more time.
Speaker 1It just helps. That's what I was going to ask. Do you sort of intentionally do things to kind of not? You know it's not cross countries over and everyone rushes out, but try and get them to stay on so it drip feeds out it sort of naturally does it itself.
Speaker 2Yes, yeah, perfect drip feeds out. It sort of naturally does it itself.
Speaker 1Yes, yep, yeah, perfect, Before we close, because I've so enjoyed this conversation and could keep chatting to you, but I'm conscious of time what would be your sort of tips for someone that was running an event? When thinking about not sort of the event managed well, it's all entangled, I guess but to make it a good experience for the competitors and the spectators, what advice would you give them?
Speaker 2And it could you know as we said it could be the smallest thing. I honestly come back to the personal touch as much as you can, I mean on a very small event.
Speaker 2You can do that very easily, yes, and I think that is important. I think for the riders, it's knowing that they're coming to a safe as can be cross-country course. I think the facilities for their horse is incredibly important for spectators, I think. Well, we've just already touched on it. I think an easy entry not just not feeling that feeling, I think almost feeling it's not exactly about getting value for money, but it's feeling it's coming here, having a lovely day out, as you say, being able to get home. I mean, they're not always lovely days out at badminton, they can be wet and cold, that's, but whatever, and going home and thinking I enjoyed that. Yes, yep, you know right it's sort of.
Speaker 2I enjoyed it yes and I saw a horse, and I saw this or some people don't want to see a horse. Some people never see a horse. Yes, yes, but yeah, I think it's a very, very simple formula really.
Speaker 1Yes, and I think that's so important because sometimes people get over. Well, they concentrate on the big bells and whistles. They think we need to have these big moments and these. I don't know, you know, whether it's huge activations or big technology or whatever it is, but it's actually those, it's the authentic things that keep people coming back. It's building that relationship. It's the small moments, those small details that make the experience for someone that when they get home they say gosh, I had a good day. You know, weren't those volunteers lovely? Or?
Speaker 1you know, gosh the person on the ticket box couldn't have been more helpful.
Speaker 2And I felt like I was. I saw a rider, exactly the winning horse, yes.
Speaker 1Yeah, and I felt like I was part of a community.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 2And it was that yeah, that connection, I think you know, yep, and we now we sort of we write, you know, we write a blog through the year. Well, I don't do it through the year, I've just done the last one for this year, because people are doing other things. You know, they're not thinking about Badminton now. I think it would just be rather repetitive and not much to say. But I think, you know, I think all of that, just all just taking, I think it's taking people on a journey, yes, and then them enjoying the journey when they come hopefully Fingers crossed.
Speaker 1That's perfect. That's the perfect way to end. Well, thank you so much, Jane, for your time.
Speaker 2No, it's been really good to be here.
Speaker 1I've really appreciated this and to all the listeners if you can't get to Badminton, it can be streamed. I certainly know a lot of my equestrian friends were streaming it this year.