Tennis Australia (Australian Open)

Step behind the gates of Tennis HQ and discover how a Grand Slam designs for joy, speed and inclusion at massive scale. 

In the latest episode of The Art & Heart of CX, Georgie Stayches sits down with Karen Clydesdale, Head of Customer Experience and Customer Relationship at Tennis Australia, to unpack the Australian Open’s human‑centred blueprint. They talk customer segmentation, service design and data – and how to turn a busy precinct into a place where fans see more tennis and feel less friction.
 
KC walks us through some of the AO’s core segments, Tennis First, Family Fun, Entertainment Seeker, and how the team maps journeys across physical and digital touchpoints. 

KC and Georgie chat all things CX and what makes the AO a leading international event, from the larger strategy to the smaller detail. They explore how:
 
  - Small choices make big differences. 
  - Biophilic design cools and calms queues with shade and greenery. 
  - Clear comms and itinerary tools help fans plan their day. 
  - Brand sound deepens memory across arenas and socials  
 
Crucially, the AO preserves the human touch: opt‑in facial recognition for express entry sits alongside friendly staff and legible signage because choice builds trust.
 
If you lead CX in any industry, this conversation gives you a practical playbook.
 
Tune in now to get behind the action of this iconic event.

To find out more about the Australian Open, visit https://ausopen.com/

Georgie Stayches, host of The Art & Heart of CX, brings a human lens to how businesses design Customer Experience (CX). She explores how every little detail impacts how a customer interprets, experiences and recalls a situation - from our senses to the built and natural environments - and how this can impact brand loyalty, word of mouth marketing and revenue.

Each episode she invites a special guess from all works of life and industries to share what they consider the art and hear of CX.

Want to hear more from Georgie? Her keynote presentations inspire audiences with real-world strategies to elevate CX, understand human behaviour and build lasting audience loyalty. 

Find out more at georgiestayches.com 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 1:41

Hello, and I'm thrilled to welcome listeners to the latest episode of The Art and Heart of CX. And I am on site at TennisHQ, the home of the Australian Open, and very excited to chat with Karen Clydesdale, Head of Customer Experience and Customer Relationship at Tennis Australia. Hello. Hello, Georgie. Now we last caught up in person at AIM earlier this year, where we ran a panel on customer experience. And I think when people think of customer experience, the Australian Open is kind of the pinnacle event that we all look to on how the AO are doing it. So I'm really excited to chat with you today. And we're sitting in a little booth because I mean the site is really ramping up, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 2:26

Certainly.

CX As An Enterprise Discipline

SPEAKER_01 2:34

And we'll talk about shade in it, I'm sure during this conversation, but that was one thing I looked at, and you can really feel this event come to life. And I'm really excited to chat to you. Similarly, I chat to Jane Tuckwell, the event director of the Badminton Horse Trials, because your customer experience is for a part, like you have to build it for a part of the year, and then it gets bumped out, you know, the infrastructure, and then you build again. So really keen to sort of find out what that's like when you're building a customer experience journey where you've only got people for a short amount of time. But before we jump in, I guess the first thing I'm keen to sort of ask you is what does customer experience mean to you?

SPEAKER_00 3:16

Yeah, good question. And I mean customer experience is not just led by the customer experience team, it's an you know an enterprise-wide discipline. And so certainly that's our role within the business so that everyone thinks customer, so that we're customer-centric in our thinking, so that we are designing experiences, both physical and digital, but we're designing them based on our customers' needs. So what do our customers need? What do our customers want? What are their needs, their behaviours, what are our previous pain points? And then the teams go away and design those based on the insights that we've got from our segments, which we might have got a range of them, but for example, we've got tennis first, family fun, entertainment seeker, for example, and they design specific spaces, physical and digital, for those customers. So it's it's not simple, but then again, it's not rocket science.

SPEAKER_01 4:07

Well, I think you're downplaying, you know, the work that you put in, and that's really interesting. I love that you say you work across the departments. I was chatting with James Warman from the World Experience Organization. He was talking about, you know, the experience should never be a standalone department. It's got to work, you know, horizontally across the departments. Is how do you find that working with department, and and obviously you're kind of, I guess, in a consulting role, if for one of a better term, but departments that, you know, customer experience isn't always their focus.

SPEAKER_00 4:40

Yeah. And I suppose when you think about the teams we work with, it would be the digital team, the ticketing team, the marketing, and operations. Now, predict those three, which I just mentioned, ticketing, digital, and marketing, they're pretty customer focused because they need to be to get their bottom line, right? So I think they've become more and more customer focused and they're already on our journey. In the past, operations were less, but they're certainly coming on board, and that's becoming a lot more part of their vernacular. Whereas previously it was bollards and CCB, you know, barriers that were outside, you know, entrances. And we were told, I was I was told by an operations person, Karen, what are you doing here? This is about operation, not customer. Now we've really matured since then, and that was like about eight years ago. Whereas now everybody's very much more customer-centric and focused around what our customers need.

SPEAKER_01 5:31

Yeah. Well, that was actually going to be a question of mine because my first job out of university, which I think we've talked about before, was at the Australian Open. So I started off at the end of 96 for the 1997 Australian Open. And I mean, it was a different era there. It was a very small team in the AO office. And while everything obviously was about creating the best Grand Slam, you know, you hadn't heard the term customer experience. You know, there was the player management and marketing and accreditation and media and you know, one site manager kind of. When did you know when did your role really ramp up in the terms of customer experience? And when did the open start really putting a focus on it?

Bringing Operations Into Customer Thinking

SPEAKER_00 6:12

Yeah. And I yeah, it's an interesting question because I think it's gone through various phases. So when Paul McNamee was the tournament director, he would have been super focused, of course he was, or even Colin Stubbs on the players. So it's always been because we know we need to look after the players because otherwise they won't come from the other side of the world, right? So, and we're a long way away, so for them to come, we need to really look after them. Um, so that's always been paramount. The fan experience I think really started to hit, obviously, probably since Craig Tyrley came in. And obviously, Craig is super player focused, but also fan focused. Yeah. But then I think also then we've probably gone to another level again when we did a digital and tech review and identified that we really needed to be human-centred design in our way of thinking. So we brought in a human-centered design capability, and so we've recruited experienced designers, UX designers, but particularly these experienced designers that map the journey end-to-end. They're thinking about it physically, digitally, the touch points. And in some cases, like for example, at the moment we're doing in-seat service, it's very much service design. It's then, you know, how does the catering company, how do they bring it to life with all the work? Because that's actually paramount to the end user. So I think we've just got better and better, and we continue to innovate. Yep. And to innovate, you need to think about the fan, you need to think about the business. And yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:33

And one thing I know I remember you talking about the in-seat service, and I might get you to explain a little bit more about that. And that was introduced at this year's open or last year's. Good question.

SPEAKER_00 7:45

We did during COVID, we actually did FB online food like ordering, right? So we did that during COVID. Yes. Because we thought that was the best thing, and that was without in the precinct. Yes, and that's where you'd sit at your seat, QR code, the meal would arrive. Yep. However, the challenge between that is you're using the same kitchen, so in actual fact, it wasn't any faster, even though we thought it would be. And and again, it wasn't actually, you know, this is a good thing, right? You learn, you test and iterate. So in the end, we've decided that in-seat ordering makes sense because people are sitting in their seats. People come to watch the tennis, a good number of portions, not necessarily the entertainment seeker, they might just like to see it on the screen. But our tennis first, predominantly, they want to sit in that arena and just absorb the tennis. And so getting up and leaving and in between mat, you know, in between games and then having to come back is a pain. So for them to do that and watch more tennis, let's provide this in-seat service. So that is where that's come from. And they tried the accessibility cohort, and that was really well appreciated because, as you know, it's a lot more challenging for people with accessibility needs to get down a lift, up a lift to get the food. So that's been very well appreciated by that cohort, and we're rolling that out across three arenas this year, so expanding it. So and that all sounds simple, but you've got to think about all the different elements to that experience. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:02

And I remember when you were talking about that, and and you sort of just touched on it before that it's it's not just the fan experience, it's the kitchen experience of delivering it. And I remember you talked about testing it with the workforce because that'd actually be delivering on it. So, you know, your stakeholders aren't just the customer, well, your customers, the players, the workforce, the sponsors, the suppliers, the providers, all those elements. Why is that? You know, what have you found has really worked from that testing and bringing everyone in and not sort of a bright idea of we should do this and often running and planning it before you've actually tested it out?

SPEAKER_00 9:41

Yeah, certainly. And we did that last year with virtual queue, and we're going through that again, testing and training. Testing and training is December and January constantly. But certainly in-seat service, I think we did do that last year, and the team did some training, and I think they realized that they brought the ice cream out, and then it actually just did not make sense because by the time they did, even though they did it as fast as possible, it actually just wasn't you know feasible. So that was, you know, a very simple example. We probably intuitively knew that may not have been the right thing, but then to test it, and then for everyone to realise that no, that's you know, you don't want a sloppy ice cream.

SPEAKER_01 10:14

You and how fast do you change that? So when you know the you see that the ice cream like is that kind of okay, we're cutting that part of the menu?

SPEAKER_00 10:23

Well, that was testing, so that was before the actual events. So I think that's why I would be a strong anything like that, do testing, especially if there's something a bit of a question mark that might be coming from either ops or from another team, it's worthwhile testing that out.

Human‑Centred Design And Service Mapping

SPEAKER_01 10:36

It just reminds me of an episode of an American sitcom superstore set in sort of a Walmart style store, and they decide to do click and collect. But of course, it you know, it's the the register is just flying out tickets of orders, and of course, they can't keep up, but it's just that classic someone has had a good idea, rolled it out with no testing of the functionality.

SPEAKER_00 10:57

Yeah, and I've just come out and I'm mindful I might be sharing some in-house rules here. Yes, this is a public uh podcast, it is. But I think it's an example. If you don't map out the whole experience, if you don't ask and you say, people, oh we will send you, you know, click and collect, and we might send you your package. If you haven't collected the right address, that sounds like really, but if you haven't thought about that, because it might be an address that's connected with their credit card, that may not be updated and it might not be where they are, because I, you know, like so it's it's thinking through all that, and I think that's the beauty of, and I'm sure you know, Georgie, they're one percenters, they add up. And if you yeah, with throughout the whole day going in and out, whether it's physical or digital, if you're thoughtful about each one of those touch points, that will certainly add up.

SPEAKER_01 11:44

Absolutely, and I was in the UK, and I think I've may have talked about this on a previous episode. I was in the UK in June, just before Wimbledon, and went and saw Andy Murray at the Hammersmith Apollo. Uh so it was in conversation with Andy Murray, and we had to put our phone, we couldn't have our phones. So we were given the pouches that you had to put your phone in. They locked the pouch and you couldn't get it unlocked until the end of the show. I'm sure if there was an emergency, they would have made an allowance. But what happened was so we all queued up very, you know, like the British, all very neatly. And we went through and we got sent to the place where we lock our phone. Well, where's everyone's ticket on their phone? So then we couldn't get to the door with our ticket, so then you'd had to go back, get your phone unlocked out of the pouch, then go to someone, so you're backtracking now against the masses coming in. Go to someone at the door who had like a it was like a raffle ticket book, and he looked at your ticket and then hand-wrote your seat number and your door and your aisle, gave that to you, and then you went through the process, then you went back, put your phone. And there just there was no thought of hang on, most people have their tickets on their phone. That's what we've been trained to do.

SPEAKER_00 12:58

And if they had a thought about putting a pocket at each of the seats, and people would have felt comfortable because people may not feel comfortable leaving their phone either. Correct.

SPEAKER_01 13:06

So it's it's such an And it it was so interesting because all the pockets are identical, and you take your pocket with you, but it's got like um like a security on that you'd have on a clothing item. But I dropped mine at one point and I thought, if my neighbour had had his on the floor, you you wouldn't have been able to tell who's like you could just see where this hadn't really been thought out, you know, whether they needed a clear pocket so you could go, oh, that's my phone. But it was that experience from when you came, you know, queued up to they just hadn't thought through the order of how things needed to happen.

In‑Seat Ordering: Tests And Trade‑Offs

SPEAKER_00 13:41

And I think given in event mode, we work at pace. Yes. And so sometimes decisions are made without being without without thinking, and especially operationally when you're in event mode. So I we do hope now moving forward that when we are making operational decisions, it's a CX operational and we're always looking at that lens.

SPEAKER_01 13:57

Yes, yep.

SPEAKER_00 13:58

And most in most cases, a good operational decision actually enhances the CX experience as well, but it's just thinking it through, and we're constantly doing that back and forth at the moment with right at this mode.

SPEAKER_01 14:09

Yes. I find some people hear customer experience and they think it's this big lofty term, and it is really just about the good experience that will create that loyalty, bring people back, have them tell their friends, you know, get the most out of this, that builds that engagement and constant, whether it's sales or ticket sales or repeat business. And there's a lot of research that not only does good CX increase profits, it reduces costs because your good CX means you're you've got, in theory, happy customers, which in theory means you've got happy staff and you don't have that turnover. Do you can you tell when a good CX thing is working? Can you see the change in the staff?

SPEAKER_00 14:52

Yeah, certainly, and I think I can see it. You can see in my own feeling during an event how how things are going. And certainly the last number of years at the AO has been so much more relaxing as a leader than what you'd go back five years ago. It was constant and you're in whiplash all the time because whereas we've constantly you know had this you know insatiable appetite for improvement, and so we we manage every pain point and we either address it right then and there, the next day, the next week, or if not, the next year. And we've got a master register. So I think given that we are getting rid of those you know, pain points, they're still there, but there is far less, and we've certainly addressed the ticketing experience. Yeah, um, I think you know, I think Ticketmaster have said our discovery page is probably one of the best discovery pages of all events. Now that's been over a number of five years of research, understanding what inclusions, understanding the challenges. So therefore, when our you know customers are going through, it's a quicker process, it's easier, simpler, and you know, we know ticketing is a bug bear for any event. Yes. So I think they're the things that we really have noticed have improved, for example, but yeah, we've still got many ways to go. We put you know, 1.2 million people on this site in a three-week period.

SPEAKER_01 16:09

Yes. And just picking up on your, you know, the discovery page and the information that you have on the website, because I think often people go, Oh, the Australian Open, well, I don't have their budget and we don't have 1.2 million come to our site, but there's so much that people can learn. And you know, simple things like your social stories and your accessibility mapping and information. And for anyone listening who doesn't know what a social story is, it it steps out in very plain, simple language what to expect when you come on site. And it's usually used by people who are neurodiverse, but I know I've spoken to lots of organizations that say they find actually everyone uses it, you know, and it could be as simple as you will walk in the gate, there'll be a ticket box to your left. You may hear loud sounds because there's a court nearby. It sort of so it prepares people for the site. And you know, I tell say to anyone, if you're listening to this, hop on and have a look because there's so much inspiration of how the AO does stuff well that anyone could apply to their events. They don't need to be this international grand slam.

SPEAKER_00 17:13

No, not at all. And I think we've done a lot of journey mapping for our accessibility needs, and that's off the you know the back of the great work that Kerry Taverow's done. But we've done that and we've integrated that into all the work we do. So whenever we're thinking all our customer groups, like I mentioned before, we're also then thinking accessibility needs. Um so they're not seen as a separate stream, but um we've really given them a lot more thought and and we'll continue to uh across the whole journey.

SPEAKER_01 17:38

Yep. And as you were saying, you you do have multiple customer segments. How do you how did you or how do you, how have you gone about in defining those? Is it and you don't obviously don't give away any trade secrets, but what comes first, sort of the research or identifying you've got that group on site, or we want this group, they haven't come on site, so we need to design for them, or is it a bit of everything?

Learning Loops, One Percent Improvements

SPEAKER_00 18:03

So we probably designed a customer wheel a number of years ago when we were doing our CRM discovery, and we'd had our segments, and I was always keen to really be clear on our definitions and our terminology because internally we flip and we flop, and people come and they go, and we so we've created one that's about people who watch the game and then people who you know participate. So it's all part of the one wheel. It's simplistic, it's not true in representation because you may be a coach who was a fan and also you know happened to be an official or whatever you might be, so um, you might play. So, but the beauty of this is it does create a bit like a trivial pursuit, and I'm using my hands here because I'm but I don't know, it's the wedge. It's a wedge, yeah. So there's in C six wedges, yes, and we've got our our patron, which or our fan, and then either side of that is our partner and our player. Yes. So obviously we need all those three to combine, and then the participation wedge, which is down the bottom, we've got the participant, which is a really important wedge, and the administrator who actually enables that experience, as well as the deliverer, which might be a coach. And we've got other segments such as you know, the tournament support, such as a tournament, what am I saying, a you know, umpire or um tournament director. Yep, but ultimately they're a bit colour-coded on both, they're both participant and event. But at the end of the day, we really focus on the patron and on the participant. So ultimately that's and of course the player. But what then what we did, we went and did segmentation work around those two segments. Yes. We did that about five years ago, and we're just going through a reset of that right now, and that then is where we get our needs, behaviours, pain points. Then and that will be our base, incorporate it with our CRM, and then from that we will then keep learning based on additional research every year and really understand our customers. Then our team design the physical experiences, which they do, an amazing team, led by Peter Jack, our head of precinct design. They design spaces around those segments. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 20:01

And that's so important for people listening that you know, whether you work in events or you work in retail or hospitality, within your customer segment, you have, you know, you may have defined your customers as 25 to 45 professionals, but within that you're going to have different segments. And I know at fetching events, you know, there's an event we work on, and in fact, most of our events, but there's one that really sort of jumps to mind where we have really two very clear segments of people that come to the event. The ones that want to get really involved and the ones that don't, they come with their friends, and they're all they want to do is come to the event, sit down and you know, socialise with their friends. So we've always got to make sure that everything we design around that event, there is something for the different segments. And, you know, I think around hospitality and accommodation, the way a lot of hotels are going with automated check-in. Now, I'm someone that likes to talk to someone when I, you know, arrive. I'm happy to do automated checkout, but when I get there, you know, in a new city, I'm tired, I just want someone to chat to. I want to ask about when does the restaurant open for breakfast, that kind of thing. But I'm sure there's business travellers that just want to get in, that I want to see someone. So it's having that, understanding those segments and seeing how you can build for those.

SPEAKER_00 21:20

Yeah. And I weirdly, I'm gonna say it's I I don't even know where why I've even thought of that. But as we know, horoscopes, you can't put a whole group of people in the one group. And and I know that segmentation is nothing like horoscopes, but I feel like it's just popped into my head. But that's the nuances with each of those segments and knowing that that's just a way of trying designing, but there are very special needs for every person of what they require, and people coming to the Strain Open have a different journey. I don't think there's one person that would have the same journey. There are three different entrances and there are so many things going on. But what we've learnt is that people love the event, but sometimes what we're really finding is that because there's so much going on, we want to make sure that we're really providing that value and serving up what's on. So we're really gonna make a great focus this year. So I'm hoping anyone who's listening, who's planning to come, we are really trying to serve up to you whether based on the precinct and the where you are, we're gonna serve up that content so that you can maximize or optimise your day.

SPEAKER_01 22:18

And is that because you find that people get so overwhelmed sometimes? They just don't even they kind of get caught and don't know where to actually go or what to do because there's too much choice and they're not sure how to design their own experience.

Accessibility, Social Stories, Inclusive Design

SPEAKER_00 22:33

Yeah, I struggle at a at the supermarket buying, you know, like buying toothpaste, so you know, and there's that's just you know, so and I think it's the same. You come here and there's so much sensory overload, and it's such a big precinct. And if you haven't been here before, it did change nearly every year. At least now we've got a clear precinct, and it hasn't changed the last number of years, and most of the things are staying. Your ballpark's in the same place. We've got top um top court for the second year in a row, garden squares, a really great place to enjoy and relax and watch the and watch the tennis and enjoy all the beautiful, you know, food, culinary offerings. And then if GSO, you can have your you know a great party time there. And and this year we're going up and in higher because it's a great opportunity for you know people to really enjoy at a at another level.

SPEAKER_01 23:17

Yeah, absolutely. So when you start planning, I guess if it and we you talked about it before around the testing, you know, implement test, tweak, that kind of thing. How much of that testing is based on you know customer feedback coming in, how quickly you can change things, and then I mean, you know, I know you said you can sort of act on it at the time one week. How much of these new things are driven by that feedback that comes in?

SPEAKER_00 23:46

Yeah. Our AO Reserve team are just all over research, and I think that's why it's gone from strength to strength to strength. They've realized from all the insights they want to be closer to the players, that you know, want to have a more premium experience, they want to be watching the tennis, but also you know, so they have designed and an end-to-end experience and curated for them. So they've really, really leaned into that, and that's a credit to Fern Barrett and her team because they've listened to those insights. And and Peter Jack and his team, and all the producers, experienced producers, they do the same. They can't get enough of those insights to design that experience. Now, sometimes the customers, as we know, they don't know what they want as well. So it's not being a hundred percent on all the insights, it's also thinking, well, what's that innovative work that we can do? It's surprise and delight. But no, I couldn't be prouder of how the team are using those insights to drive. And they give those segmentation profiles to our third-party vendors. Yes. So that they're also part of the whole journey as well.

SPEAKER_01 24:46

Yes. And how much do you you know, I mean, so you have the research coming in, but at event time you I think you heat map, you might heat map, you actually start to see behaviors and how you know, you thought everyone was going to turn left and they actually all turned right. How much do you use from sort of those observations at event time?

SPEAKER_00 25:08

Yeah, so with a lot, we've we're getting better and better, and I think this year I'm really excited that we're setting up a customer operational insights hub, or that's the name I'm calling it at the moment. I'm sure it might come up with a name. But that is going to be an opportunity for us to be able to see the crowd intelligence. Yes. To be able to also map that with what we're hearing from our customer research, because we have a post-attendance survey and a voice of customer, as well as our customer support. So we'll be able to triangulate probably heeks are gonna on late, if you know, all that data and making decisions. But with the live data, which will be the crowd intelligence, we'll be actually able to see where people like you see the heat mapping in certain areas for the first time. Once again, not sure this is maybe I shouldn't share this, but we're gonna be able to provide something that you're gonna be able to see court availability on the seats. So we're really excited about that because that has been a pain point because you might be over at the village and you want to go to court 15, you've got to make your way all the way over there, and you realize that no, I can't get in, there's too many of too much of a crowd. So if you can look at your phone or an app to be able to see what that court availability, we're really excited to serve that up to our our patrons this year.

SPEAKER_01 26:14

I love that because it's it is seeing what people are doing, isn't it? And as I said, while we're talking about this major international event, it applies to anything people are doing. And if I just think, you know, look at conferences, the amount of conferences that lose their delegates at lunchtime on the final day because they're catching the flight home and you have your keynote speaking to 10 people in the plenary at sort of three o'clock. And the the conferences that don't try and fight against that but understand that behaviour, so rework the program. And then, you know, a lot of the conferences we work on have a grub and go lunch because we know people are going to scoot off, but we also have an area where they can sit down because not everyone is gonna scoot off. So what you you know, you can observe anything, you can observe it in retail, as I said in hospitality. You observe how people move and how you can, you know, make sure that customer experience is tailored to that instead of fighting against it.

SPEAKER_00 27:11

No, that's right. Yeah. Because humans will be humans, right? So you can't, yeah, they you've got to yeah, go with them.

Segmentation And The Customer Wheel

SPEAKER_01 27:18

Exactly, yeah. We talked about technology and and obviously AI. I mean, I remember being at a conference last year where everyone was sort of talking about AI is coming. I mean, fast forward a year and it was it that felt like 10 years ago, you know, we're well and truly entrenched in AI for good or bad and and the technology. And and obviously that's really helping with like the in-seep dining or in-seep service. But how do you balance that with the human connection? Knowing people do like someone to talk to or at least access to something. How do you sort of balance those when you're designing?

SPEAKER_00 27:52

Yeah, it's interesting. I think it's part of this mapping experience, and you're really understanding well, what are you trying, what's the problem we're trying to solve? Yes. Or what's the experience, what's the target experience we're trying to create? Yes. And so then you go, well, what are the channels and how are we going to do that? So we know, of course, we're trying express entry again for the Australian Open, and that is facial recognition, which people opt in for as part of the ticketing experience, and hopefully then they can have that opportunity just to come in and be recognised by their face, which is you know, obviously a form of AI or or in or obviously technology. So the reason we're doing that is that that may be a testing that what does that look like in the future? Are you gonna be able to go in and out of our courts like that? Are you gonna be able to buy F and B in that in the future? Um, so you know, we're giving that a a second round go this year or our third year into that, and so when we're designing that experience, you're really thinking about well, how what are we trying to achieve? Easy access and allow people to move through our entrances as quickly and safely as possible. So keep that at the forefront. Yes, but that does become obviously that interface is technology, but there are people supporting that. Yes, and so that is critical. And at the end of the day, we have found with some of our research, for example, using whether you want to do a digital map, which we've obviously got a digital map, but people are more inclined to ask a person, look at a sign, or at in the past was a physical map than go to a digital map, especially due to sun, crowds, and the type of demographic. Yep. That being said, we provide a digital map. Yes, and we're really wanting to lean into that because there's so many ways in a digital map that you can pop up and people can see what's on in live and it can be changed and it's dynamic and scalable. So, you know, we're shifting towards that, and that's the technology that we'll be able to do moving forward.

SPEAKER_01 29:39

And but you're not whiplashing people on the journey, you're not, you know, it you're not saying everyone has to do facial recognition when they come through. You're actually giving people choice and kind of that adjustment so they can come at it, you know, there might be a time where it is all facial recognition, but by that time they might be doing facial recognition everywhere. But you're you're allowing some customers to take their time to come on to certain parts of the journey.

SPEAKER_00 30:03

Yeah, certainly. And we did that with digital ticketing as well. So which obviously we're all doing digital ticketing now, but that was a huge shift a number of years from going from paper to digital, but now we're there.

SPEAKER_01 30:13

And so I've just got the image of how people would wear their lanyards with their plastic pocket and their, you know, ticket ticket, you know, their yes, their ticket. I'm not talking about accreditation lanyards, but you know, your ticket seller ticket would be in that plastic pocket and they'd wear it round. And so that's a huge adjustment to then go to digital.

SPEAKER_00 30:32

It is, and we still do now collector tickets though, because people like to keep them. So, you know, you'd think we've gone completely one way, but now we've gone back and gone, okay, well, if you want to opt in for a collector ticket, you can pick one up so because they like that memento, because they've probably had them from 20, 30 years ago. So, you know, and I think that's the the flexibility and that what you were talking about. We allow people to choose their adventure on whatever they yeah, or their channel.

SPEAKER_01 30:57

Exactly. We sometimes don't give our customers credit, you know. I mean, if we think back to pre-COVID, QR codes weren't. I mean, I can remember having a QR code in an event and no one knew what they were doing. I remember trying to download a QR code, I didn't know what I needed to do. And then, of course, and you know, we used to be told from an event point of view, our clients aren't tech-savvy, they won't get online, they won't do this. Well, we were forced to, and behaviors really changed. And so, you know, people, I think sometimes we don't give our client our customers credit for what they are capable of. It's just how we bring them on that journey and create that experience for them.

SPEAKER_00 31:32

Yeah. I actually think in some respects they have their expectations are super high, and our challenge is. Keeping up with those, whether it's the you know the Airbnb experience or whether it's the Uber experience. I mean, you know, they're very seamless and you're going in and out of a physical digital experience. Yes. And so we're doing that all day, every day during an event. So, you know, we have to have those, you know, keep up to their expectations.

SPEAKER_01 31:56

Exactly, and what's going on around. Because they're not coming to this event in isolation to a concert they've gone to or to a hotel they've stayed at or you know, an ASOP store that they've gone into. So I know, you know, they were talking, I remember seeing uh futurists talking about the expectation of you know immediate delivery through like Amazon Prime or you know, people expect if they order it today, they get it tomorrow or you know within a few days. And so those customer expectations change. How have you or have you seen behaviours change over the last five years? Are they changing each year? Do you find, you know, if you looked at 10 years ago, it's quite different to now?

Overwhelm To Guidance: Serving What’s On

SPEAKER_00 32:37

Good question. I think the expectations are certainly higher. I mean, I think that's probably at paramount, and so and our expectation expectations internally are as well. Yeah, if you go back ten years ago, it was just like let's get them in and let's just go to the courts. Whereas now we're really listening to our customer and knowing that they want, you know, they want to be at the courts for as long as possible, or they want to see as much tennis, they want value for money, they they don't want to be waiting in queues, and and we know queues are a a challenge for every event, doesn't matter what event you're running, because generally you're trying to get people into either an arena or a certain space, and we're trying to do that in many spaces all at the one time and moving people around. So yeah, I think probably things have changed, but then again, no, the human behaviour has not. Yeah, but yeah, we're obviously really increasing that to that expectation that it's going to be like an incredible, unforgettable experience.

SPEAKER_01 33:31

Yep. And I know obviously queuing is a big thing, and particularly on those first few days. I mean, I've got some family members who are in that queue for when the gates open. But what I love, and I've got a picture that I often show in my keynotes of the entry to the garden court arena entry, and it's you know, you've got planter boxes. And if we know anything about biophilic design, is that it well, A, it brings temperature down. We're in the heat of a Melbourne summer, you're on ashevel, you know, concrete as you're queuing. So plants bring the temperature down, but it also calms people. So our our bodies and our eyes are visually built for organic forms. We instantly relax when we see natural. And so there's so many benefits of just putting planter boxes out. And I don't underestimate, I know the cost of hiring plants at events, but you know, you've thought through it, doesn't have to be all high-tech, it can be those little things that can that people wouldn't even notice. They'd notice the planter boxes, but they don't actually realise the benefits they've they're giving them.

SPEAKER_00 34:29

No, agreed. And our our precinct design team are just like amazing at that, and they give it so much thought with so much mood boards and consideration at all levels, and I sit next to them and I hear them talking about seeing it above, seeing it from the side, and what does all that mean? Yes. And particularly this year, we're doing some really cool things and creating worlds within worlds, so sort of like Disneyland meets Coachella type. What does that look like? So each of our spaces, you know, I think our patrons will start to realise that this is the place for me. Yes, and those colours will feel the same, and the signage will be consistent, and how we're communicating that through our all our different channels will start telling that story. But that's only the start of the story. But I think no, that's really exciting, and that sort of links into the whole cycle of tennis. Come to the ballpark, enjoy that with as a family, get a you know, get a racket in hand, um, and then as you get older, you've got top court, get engaged with a bit of tennis, a bit of paddle, a bit of pop, and a few other you know, amazing sort of esports you can get involved with, and then you know, head on once you get a little bit older and you can drink, go over to Grand Slam Oval. It's not just about drinking, but of course, great food, great atmosphere, vibe. And then if you still want to stay around, of course, you know, enjoy it in Garden Square and you can enjoy watching the atmosphere and you're still doing all this in a ground pass for$59.

SPEAKER_01 35:47

Exactly, yes. And I remember last or this year and and previous years, but seeing you know, the popularity of the table tennis table or the totem pole tennis, you know, there's because we know that nostalgia, particularly Gen Z are huge on nostalgia. I mean, I actually think every generation is. So it's not just all really high-level kind of you know, virtual reality, it's sometimes those nostalgic games and those very, for want of a term, old school games that are just as popular.

SPEAKER_00 36:19

And I think our our thinking around that is just like racket in hands, right? Paddle, pop, yes, and then just that tactile kind of thing. Tactile, and then you know, if you get a racket in your hand, well, you you're enjoying the sport in one shape or form, and we're really embracing all alternative formats or alternatively dis or different disciplines of tennis.

SPEAKER_01 36:37

Yes, yep. What would you say? Because I mean, you know, we can talk about sort of the big things that have been implemented from a customer experience point of view, but what are some of the maybe the small tweaks that you've made but you've seen have had a big impact?

SPEAKER_00 36:51

And uh there's so many different things, and I'm I'm a real and probably this is my you know to my detriment, but I do like the detail and the one percenters. But we've done a lot, as I said, on our Ticketmaster Discovery page, so that every per person who purchases a ticket, so like 400,000 people, go through that journey. So we've made that more seamless. And a lot of that has been one percenters and little tweaks over time. Yes, they want to know day sessions, night sessions, how do you make that more clearly? What are those inclusions? But then the other things that we've done is is like the sensory rooms, you know, the feedback that we get and the the people with the appreciation of that. Now, ten years ago, I I wouldn't have thought of that, like we wouldn't have even considered that. So talking about what's changed, I think that's that's certainly the case, and then probably just the comms, our our trying to be more personalized with our communication, and it's still not one-to-one, it's one to many, but we're trying to be a lot more thoughtful with our communications and getting the right hierarchy of communication, and whether that's through an EDM, an SMS, or our you know, what's on page on our website, it's so thoughtful, yes. So, yeah, I think they're the things that have changed. So it helps people plan their day, yes, and then also once they arrive, and our team do an amazing job with our app, and you know, we're continually trying to improve that experience.

Live Insights, Heatmaps, And Court Availability

SPEAKER_01 38:06

Yeah, and it's so true about the comms because if you come to the site feeling prepared, then you're gonna automatically be a step ahead in the experience that you have. You know, when you go to things that you haven't been told all the information and you get there and it's you know, you're spending the whole time wishing you'd brought, I don't know, picnic food, let's say if it was that kind of thing or whatever it is, if you haven't been informed or you know, have your ticket ready or arrive earlier because parking could be a difficulty. I was at an event recently where you know there was cues and the parking was tricky. Now, if you were if you knew this venue, you always know you've got to leave a lot of time because the parking's limited, but it meant some people missed the start of sessions that they'd booked into, but it could have been such a simple conversation. And you can't just tell them once, you've got to tell them several, you know, that old tell them seven times in different ways.

SPEAKER_00 38:58

And the challenge is you're right, they don't necessarily read, but at least you try, and for those that do, then they're one step ahead. I think um I'm pretty uh proud of what the team have done around AO Reserve, which now, if you go into it and you've you've actually got your itinerary, you know, hour by hour of what you can do over that six-hour period so that they are maximising that experience. And you know, hopefully we'll be able to do something like that for our rest of our patrons in due course because plan your day is certainly a focus.

SPEAKER_01 39:26

You are because you're flipping going, okay, who's on what court now? You know, should I go and have a look if someone's hitting up? When do I go and eat? You know, oh, what's the music happening and all of those things? Just getting back to the expectations, it because it just reminded me of a couple of years ago I went to a a European Christmas market in Melbourne. And when you hear the term European Christmas, it was a certain country, I won't name the um the one, but you have a very specific vision of what this Christmas market's gonna be like, particularly because it's from a country that is well known for their Christmas markets. And you know, my friend and I went along with the highest of hopes. I mean, we didn't think it was gonna be, you know, a Munich Christmas market, but we felt, and I mean, it was just I I don't even know how to describe it, sort of a hotchpotch of things. You know, I mean, the food wasn't even relevant to that country, the music wasn't Christmassy, it wasn't relevant to that country. It was kind of a a hotchpotch of a school fate plus a food truck, you know, park plus random entertainment. And I mean, it really played on our minds that but we had, you know, we came expecting a certain experience and we didn't get it. And I was in the queue at another European Christmas market last year that once again, I mean, this one was laid out much better, but there was nothing about it that was Christmassy, other than it was held just before Christmas. And I remember being in the queue for coffee and some girls behind me saying, but there's they're not even playing Christmas carols. They could have just put up, there's not even a Christmas tree, you know, they just so what the expectation and then what the experience you had, because you go to a Christmas market to feel festive, was such a disconnect, and it's it and it wouldn't have cost anything other than a PA system to play some Christmas carols.

SPEAKER_00 41:16

So it is knowing those expectations as well of your customers because they'll they're savvy and they'll they'll see that that that gap and you want to make sure that you exceed that exactly. I think that's you know, what from our feedback that we get, you know, we do that every year. We surprise and delight and blow them away, and there's going to be some exciting things that we're we're doing this year so that more people can watch tennis, they get greater value for money, and and hopefully they stay longer and and they keep coming back.

SPEAKER_01 41:44

And I love that because you've talked about that before. That surprise and delight obviously plays a big part in the CX design here. Do you does your CX design have KPIs like howdy? Oh yeah, yes.

Balancing Tech And Human Touch

SPEAKER_00 41:55

Oh yeah, oh yeah, we certainly do. We obviously, you know, generally our our CSAT, which is our customer satisfaction, and we track really, really well, but we are always stretching that to go, you know, higher and higher. And then we do use NPS, but not as broadly more CSAT, but that's also great for advocacy and and seeing you know that that loyalty factor. And of course, you know, attendance. We of course we want to, you know, look at that attendance and and other CSATs, we will other engagement metrics would be, you know, the engagement to our web and our apps, to our visit section, to our digital map. Yeah, so they're all and we obviously have specific metrics around you know queues or around some of our in-seat service or our yeah, so our specific programs have an embedded sort of opportunity for our customers to give feedback on that experience.

SPEAKER_01 42:45

Yeah, yep. And it always comes back to what the purpose is, because I think people try sometimes try and implement great customer experience without understanding what the purpose is, and then how can you actually measure that? Whether it's to get people through a store quicker or you want them to stay longer. You know, every customer experience has a different design and a different purpose. I remember in one of the previous episodes chatting with Dr. Bree Fallon, who you were on a panel with at AIME at the Holoca Melbourne Holocaust Museum, and she said, you know, we can see that the lingering time of people in the museum is longer because of the redesign of the museum and the natural light and access to fresh air and the biophilic design. Now, for someone else, lingering time would be the worst thing they, you know, for a customer. They, you know, the customer wants to be in and out. So it's understanding those basics before you understanding your purpose, you know, what your sort of North Star is, who your customer segment is, how you're going to implement it and how you're going to test it and measure it.

SPEAKER_00 43:46

Definitely. And we align everything we do from a CX strategy with our overall strategy. Of course we do, because that's exactly what you want to do. So it doesn't sit in isolation. No, definitely.

SPEAKER_01 43:56

For someone who's listening that works at a small event or maybe works at City in Retail, maybe in a a doctor's surgery, you know, and they're looking at how they can create a better experience. What are some, you know, little things or sort of rules that you can recommend that they can sort of go away with?

SPEAKER_00 44:16

Yeah. Um, certainly just the the who. Who are you designing for? You don't have to have big deep deep dives of you know research, and but be clear of what those buckets of the people are that you're designing for. Look at what that experience is and map it. It might be as simple as like, and I was actually weird, but my my son's getting married in a year's time, and I went and had to check out the wedding venue. So it was sort of like last night lying in bed going, oh, we could pop a mirror board together and pop a mood board, but thinking I sort of said got there, well, where are they arriving? They're gonna come through this gate, okay, great. And then they're gonna go to the chapel, great. Then they're gonna walk to here. So just map that journey from end to end so that you're thinking about how they what are they thinking and feeling in each of those stages? That's enough, and then what are those touch points? Yes. I would start there. It doesn't matter whether you're organizing a party at your house, a wedding, or a Grand Slam event, you need to be thinking about that end-to-end journey and what are all those touch points and how can you and then sitting back and going, what are the moments that matter?

SPEAKER_02 45:13

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 45:13

Now, as we know, if you're you know going through an airport, the moment that matters is you're making sure that those, you know, that if you come on a long uh flight and that your you know luggage is going around on that carousel, like if it's not, it's like a holy, you know, your whole world changes. So um, what are the moments that matter on your journey, whatever that journey is, and really lean into those to make sure that that's you know clearly communicated and and met meets the needs or exceeds the needs. And then you know, continually listen. So you've done that, and then after it or during it, if you can, if you've got that, just understand it. Might be a couple of conversations. It doesn't have to be a full-on research. Observe and see where you can improve and just constantly improve that experience.

SPEAKER_01 45:55

Absolutely. And people often think, you know, feedback, they sort of go, Oh, you know, so-and-so's had a word about this. And I always say, but that's gold. Like that is correct, that is where you are learning. I always find the airport one fun because there's so much, you know, when you arrive and when you check in, and then you go through security, and then there's someone at the gate, and there's someone to meet you on the plane, and when you land, yeah, it's you it you're on your own, you know, you're off, and then your luggage is there's no security around your luggage. It's you know, I mean, I picked up someone's suitcase the other day because we had exactly the same suitcase, and and then I saw my actual one come out and I re recognised a tag, and we were having a bit of a giggle, but it's kind of like the the and obviously you just want to get your suitcase and go, but there's just you you it's fen for yourself once you're off that plane at the end. So true. Is there anything that has just completely surprised you that you didn't think would take off in the way it did? Or I mean, there's I'm sure there's stuff surprising you all the time.

Expectations Shaped By Everyday Brands

SPEAKER_00 46:54

It's a I I don't know where I say, I'd say it's a roller coaster ride. Sometimes you're up on a high and you think, oh wow, look what we've achieved. And then other days it's like, oh dear, we're back here again. How did that happen? So I think it it and that can be during a course of a day or or a week or over a period of time. So yeah, so I suppose it's those moments that you're down there you're thinking, yeah, that really surprised me. Um and I suppose, yeah, it's just really getting that exec buy-in and that C-suite buy-in to the journey, and certainly I think we're in a much better space than what we were. And and and how important the technology is to that, and also the human element of our people, they both enable the experience, so you can't do it without no.

SPEAKER_01 47:37

I I know when we uh just before we we came in to start recording this, you took me to AO Collect, which is where the workforce can come and you know, where they register, where they pick up their uniform. And I was saying it's so different to when I first worked here. And obviously, workforce are such a big part of you know, a customer. But I loved the story you told about the brand sounds. And I, you know, talk a lot, and I don't know if you're happy to talk about that, but because sound is so important in how it makes people feel, how we respond, and and anyone who doesn't understand or you know validate the power of sound, just think about what happens when fingernails go down a blackboard. You know, it changes your mood, changes everything. Do you want to talk about that?

SPEAKER_00 48:22

The AO sound and this is about three or four years ago. Our marketing team and Britt Weeks, who leads our marketing team, you know, designed this, and I think with Josie Brown as well, I think. But the AO, yeah, brown sound. So they obviously did a lot of work to find out what's the right sound, how's it going to resonate, how's it you know, gonna come to life. And yeah, it it has, and we use it during the arenas, you know, experience, but also in our social media before and after and going in and out and so forth, and what are they called, stingers. But I I was telling you this story and I love it. But kids' tennis day, there was a ball kid, and I just walked and he was there with his family, and he must have been involved with some activation, and I could hear this, you know, humming. And I went, I went up to him and I said, Is that you know the brand sound? He said, I said, No, I didn't ask that. I said, What is that? And he said, That's the AO Brown Brown sound. I thought, oh my god, we've actually had cut-through, maybe just to one child, but hopefully not. But yeah, and I think that is the beauty of it, it brings so many emotions. And I'm gonna say that's another really weird thing, but the ABC, you know, sound to the ABC News. Now that brings back tradition to me, yes, of watching the news with my dad, and it must have some form of safety, but I love hearing that sound.

SPEAKER_01 49:38

Oh, look, I think there's a lot of commentary on how much that sound means to people. I did a post on LinkedIn recently around sound, and we would people were commenting, and you know, anyone who's done a Kentucky tour back in the day, you know, they always played this, you had your one song that got played at the start of every day when you hopped on the bus. And I remember mine was nothing's gonna break my stride. And I can't hear that without being transported back to that Kentiki experience. And you know, days gone by, you'd have your conference song that would be played at the start of every day, that would be played to get you back into the room, played to bring you out, but make that connection with sound.

SPEAKER_00 50:17

Yeah, and yeah, wait for this year. We're also looking at scent as well, and what does an AO scent? So I think they're playing with that in our AO reserve spaces, which are our premium experience spaces. So, and that's always a good test and learn space because it's smaller, yes. But anyway, let's wait and see how that goes.

SPEAKER_01 50:38

I think you can you can not only recall longer, but you recall stronger via scent than you do visually. So I know after COVID, taking mum and dad to a hotel for the first time, and it was only in Melbourne, we're having this. And I remember we walked in and mum said, Oh, I've missed that scent in a hotel lobby. So, you know, and you know, JW Marriott, you know, they have their own scent. Many hotels have their own scent and brand that you that brings you back to that memory. So oh gosh. Well, there's so much exciting for people. I mean, I know some tickets tickets all on sale. I know the pre-sale has happened because I know tickets are one of one of the fetching team always has to take some of a certain day off so she can get her tickets.

SPEAKER_00 51:23

I know we've gone on sale. Um, we're still going on sale for a few more things, which I can't tell you about, but we're we are ha planning an opening ceremony. So if anyone is listening and they can, yeah, that will be in early December. We're going on live, and we've also so got our charity matches. Yes, so opening week is our qualifying week, but that's bigger and better than this year, and there'll be so many ways to get close to the players, watch tennis, see the AO draw, opening ceremony, charity matches, and of course, we're going to have AO Live also at Top Court during opening week. So that's just gone on live last week on sales. Yeah, great. Yeah, they're selling fast.

Biophilic Design And calming Queues

SPEAKER_01 51:58

So if you're listening to our dear listener, go ahead, look at the tickets. We brought the fetching events team down this year, and we just spent the whole day walking around, looking at signs, looking at bins, looking at pathways, and just experiencing it from my point of view, who's known this since it, you know, I think I came to about the second open when it moved to Melbourne Park to people who'd never been. And it was really interesting. Just so walk around, observe, and come and enjoy the tennis too. So a big thank you, Casey, for joining me. It's been so great to chat. And I know we could chat all day, and the tennis always holds such a special place in my heart because it was my first job. And it actually, I came back when COVID well, when we thought COVID was over, to, you know, do was work as a casual again in the open that got shut down, brought back on, shut down. The the mask mandate changed, so I kind of feel I've seen it in all sorts of variations. But it's been so great to chat. And as I said, make sure if you're not in Melbourne, watch it on TV because even on TV you can see the things that are happening. Um, and of course, if you do find yourself in Melbourne over late January, make sure you come down to the site and have a look. So a big thank you again, and we can't wait to see what's in store at the AO in 2026. No worries.

SPEAKER_00 53:17

Thanks, Georgie. Cheers.