189. Running Dietitian Speaks: Proper Fueling For Running & More with Amy

In this episode I chat with Amy of @the_running_dieitian (runningdietitian.com) about all things running and fueling: pre, intra and post fueling strategies, carboloading, hydration, the "refeed window", why fueling is important, some snack and meal ideas and MORE! 

Find Amy at:

Instagram: @the_running_dietitian

Website: runningdietitian.com

Amy's FREE snack guide: https://runningdietitian.myflodesk.com/snackguide

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:18

I completed a 100-mile race when I was one year postpartum and I was breastfeeding at the time. I really got into an unhealthy relationship with food. And I would say running was even unhealthy too, because it was all about burning calories and how small can you get? And it's interesting now. I weigh a lot more than I did when I was struggling and I'm so much faster than I was back then.

SPEAKER_02 0:52

Um let's just talk about parameters around different things. So before we talk about intra-run, let's talk about before a run. So when should athletes fuel before a run? Any run? I recommend. Now let's segue into the running during. So fueling during a run. What's the kind of current recommendation? Where does the science kind of stand right now on getting fuel in post-run? And what would you recommend that be?

SPEAKER_01 1:16

Yeah, they kind of mentioned that fueling is always called like this window, that it might be more of a garage door versus the window. But the big thing about So carbo loading now.

SPEAKER_02 1:26

Let's talk a little bit about the strategy with that. What should a day in the life of fueling look like for someone who's generally training consistently? Let's just put it that way.

SPEAKER_01 1:35

Training consistently, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:37

I think a big part would be looking at hydration during a run. Um, how important is it? Is it always necessary? Let's talk about intra-run fueling options. What are your favorite gels? And then I also want to talk about natural fueling options. Welcome to the Knight Fit Podcast. I'm your host, Emily Knight. I'm a running in strength coach whose primary mission is to help runners reach their goals and maintain their strength without sacrificing their true health. On this podcast, we talk about all things health and fitness so that you can stay up to date on some of today's latest research. I host inspiring guests, drop total episodes where I explore permanent topics, and get to the heart of many of our questions around what it means to fix our fitness goals and prioritize our wellness. So step back and get ready for an awesome conversation. Hey everybody, welcome back to the Knight Fit Podcast. Super excited to have you guys here today. Today I have the honor of chatting with Amy, aka the running dietitian, about all things running, training, and proper fueling. Amy is so passionate about helping runners fuel properly so they can reach their true potential. I'm so excited to chat today. So, Amy, welcome to the podcast.

SPEAKER_01 2:43

Thanks for having me, Emily.

SPEAKER_02 2:45

Of course. Yeah. So I always start by having my guests introduce themselves, share personal, professional, and then the hardest part, fun facts.

SPEAKER_01 2:55

Oh, yeah, fun facts are always, always difficult. Well, my as Emily said, my name is Amy. You may know me better as the running dietitian. I am a registered dietitian who works with runners, helping them learn how to fuel their body on and off the run. And I'm also a runner myself. And really why I started to specialize in runners is I saw what a big difference that nutrition was making in my own running journey and helping me become such a stronger runner that I wanted to help other runners feel the same difference.

SPEAKER_02 3:31

Yeah, that's amazing. So if we're gonna dive into that, I feel like we have to start by hearing more about your running journey. So, how did you get into running? Tell us more.

SPEAKER_01 3:40

I participated in cross country starting in junior high and just did it because it was something to do. So I did, but I what I didn't take it very seriously. Like looking back, I feel that I could have been a much better runner if I would have put more effort into it. And so I started getting really more serious about running in college. I completed my first marathon. I think I was a junior in college at that time and just have been running ever since.

SPEAKER_02 4:15

That's amazing. Good for you. Um, and I noticed on your website, I was just reading through the services you offer and things like that and your story that you did at one point struggle with the idea that thinner is makes faster. And I think a lot of runners sadly go through that trajectory. So, can you explain a little bit about maybe the lows that you experienced in your running career? And then we'll kind of talk about the highs as well.

SPEAKER_01 4:39

Yes, I was definitely in the mindset of if you want to get faster, you need to look a certain way to perform a certain way. And so I really got into an unhealthy relationship with food. And I would say running was even unhealthy too, because it was all about burning calories and how small can you get. And it's interesting now I weigh a lot more than I did when I was struggling and I'm so much faster than I was back then. And I think it's important to know that weight can be a factor in speed, but it's not the only factor. And I think a lot of runners are showing that it's not even the most important factor when it comes to how fast you can perform.

SPEAKER_02 5:31

Oh, yeah, and proper fueling changes everything, right? Um, and that kind of leads to the highs. So tell us about some of your highs in your running career.

SPEAKER_01 5:40

I would say my biggest high is that I completed a 100-mile race when I was one year postpartum and I was breastfeeding at the time. And so to be able to do that, like I look back now and I I cannot, I cannot fathom. I'm like, how did I get through training? How did I get through race day? Um I had a very complicated pregnancy. My daughter, I ended up in the hospital for five weeks. My daughter had a NICU stay and a few hospitalizations post-NICU. And I think I was using running at not, I think, I know, I was using running as a way to prove to myself that my body, my body is still worthy, even though it felt that it failed through the pregnancy and it failed her, and it really failed our whole family that my body was still like an ally, still on my team. So I think there was a lot of motivation from that, which got me through it. But I think looking back, being in a much, much better place now, I can I can see that again, maybe not the most healthy relationship at the time, like using it to prove something. But I'm still just so proud that I was able to do that.

SPEAKER_02 6:56

Yeah. And obviously, it goes without saying you did not fail your family, right? Like you grew your daughter, you did such an amazing thing, you brought her into this world. It's such a gift and such such a beautiful miracle. Like there's nothing failure involved in that whatsoever. But um, that isn't insane. A hundred miles. I'm just picturing that in my head right now. What does training look like for that? Like, I can't, it's not my area of expertise, I should say.

SPEAKER_01 7:23

There were a lot of 20 mile runs that were in there. I think my biggest day ended up being 38 miles and then a 12-mile run the next day because I knew I was gonna have to stop and pump. Like the 38 miles was broken up. So I did like a 20-mile run and then I waited a couple hours, and I think it was uh 10 or something mile run, and then some more miles later that night. But I was really trying to replicate, like forcing myself to take breaks and knowing that I wasn't going for a certain time. I just really wanted to be able to get my first buckle and complete the 100 mile race.

SPEAKER_02 8:06

That is truly incredible. And the fact that you were pumping, I mean like I'm breastfeeding right now, too. Like that is literally the epitome of women can do everything, right? You are breastfeeding, you are stopping to pump, you are running a hundred miles. And that makes me also think about the amount of fueling that you had to do, which is a great segue. Um yeah, the amount of fueling that that must have required, especially because you need breast milk as well. You need to produce breast milk.

SPEAKER_01 8:31

Absolutely. I think that was also something that was really important to me is that the race was important, but I didn't want to stop nursing because of this other goal. Like it was really important to me to do both. That my supply didn't dip at all throughout training. There was definitely a dip on race day, but it never completely went away. And I think that's something that really shows that I was running a lot, but I was also fueling a lot. Like I was able to support these two things at once.

SPEAKER_02 9:03

And I'm doing that right now. I'm running and breastfeeding, and it requires a lot of food. No, hydration.

SPEAKER_01 9:10

Yes. I have a video from the Hundred Miler at One Aid Station. I have my pump on and I'm like eating a grilled cheese sandwich. It was just, it's like one of my favorite, like looking back at the videos and stuff. It's like, this is pretty awesome. Like I'm in the middle of a hundred miler sitting on a chair, I'm covered, but I'm like doing doing these things all at once.

SPEAKER_02 9:30

Yeah, no doubt. And you're making me want a grilled cheese now. That sounds really good. Um, okay, so let's talk about fueling and nutrition and all those things because that's a great kind of transition. So, what inspired you to be an RD? I have a sister who's pursuing that right now. So I'm I love that area.

SPEAKER_01 9:46

That's so cool. I feel that my story to becoming an RD is maybe a little bit different. I was heavily involved in 4-H as a kid, and one of my junior year projects, I compared homemade brownies to store brownies, and part of it was the nutritional information, and I found it very intriguing. And I knew I wanted to go to Iowa State. I grew up as a big cyclone fan and I wanted to go there. So, of course, I needed to find a major that was there, maybe a little backwards. And I saw dietetics on there, and it sounded really interesting because it was in the healthcare, it's helping people, but it wasn't, you know, kind of that typical nurse that position that you might think of.

SPEAKER_02 10:30

Yeah, no, for sure. And it's not backwards. I feel like when we get to college, sometimes we have no idea what we want or we know exactly what we want. Um, so very common. Um, and you mentioned earlier kind of the thinner is faster kind of struggle that a lot of runners go through. What has your relationship with fueling been like just over the years, especially as you learn more about nutrition from the education background?

SPEAKER_01 12:36

Yes. I always talk about on my page a lot about how I made all the rookie mistakes during my first marathon. And that wasn't necessarily because the thinner equals faster mindset. It was not knowing and just having no idea. I didn't do a cardload. Like we had some pasta or I had like a veggie lasagna the night before because I was a vegetarian at the time. And then even during the race, I remember they were handing out gels and thinking, what is this for? But I took one because everybody else was, and I got half of it down and I threw the gel away because I'm like, this is the most disgusting thing I've ever tasted. It was like one of the cliff gels and everything. So just yeah, I made so many mistakes in the beginning just from a lack of knowledge.

SPEAKER_02 13:26

Mm-hmm. No, for sure. And I think that's the most common trajectory. I feel like it's pretty rare that people know right away what they want to do and how to do it. So when you started to fuel your runs, what did that look like for you?

SPEAKER_01 13:41

It still wasn't enough. Like when I ran CIM in 2017, I fueled it off of three or four applesauce pouches. So it was much improved from not taking in anything, but it's still nowhere near because why applesauce pouches are somewhere between 16 to 19 grams each. And I've had marathons where I've taken in over 70 grams of carbs per hour. So there has been this huge swing in what I was doing before versus what I do now and what I recommend for clients to do as well.

SPEAKER_02 14:18

Yeah. And would you say when you were making that switch from basically nothing to up to 70 grams of carbs per hour, was that a smooth transition? And we'll obviously talk more about your recommendations, but how did that transition go for you, especially because I know there's a lot of people listening who might be under fueling?

SPEAKER_01 14:35

Yeah, it definitely wasn't smooth, and it's been a lot of trial and error. I think after the applesauce pouches, I went to the Honeysinger Gels, which I believe they're like 22 grams of carbs. So probably taking that every 30 minutes. So improvement, but still not where I am today. So it was trying some gels kind of that are average, and then trying some of the higher carb gels. I've also used e-gels, which is 37 grams. I like the SIS beta, which are 40 grams of carbs. So really just trying some higher carb products because I would prefer to fuel not every 20 minutes if I don't have to. I would rather space it out.

SPEAKER_02 15:18

Yeah, no, for sure. And we'll talk more about like parameters around for people listening, like how much they should be, how many carbs they should be having in an hour and why you went from just the 20s up to 40 and things like that every 30 minutes. Um, but let's first address common mistakes that you see as a running dietitian.

SPEAKER_01 15:37

I would say not fueling enough during the run. And I think part of it goes back to not understanding what those parameters are, understanding how much that you need to fuel in order not to bonk in order to support your body. And then I would say also not practicing taking in your race day fuel at race pace. A lot of times your long runs can be at a slower pace. And great, you still need to take fuel during them. But if you're not having a lot of race pace during your long runs, it's okay, even though I can quote unquote get by on this five, six mile run without fuel. But since it's at race pace, I'm gonna fuel during it so I can train my stomach to be able to handle this gel, but also get used to being able to open it at this faster pace too.

SPEAKER_02 16:29

Yeah, okay, that's fascinating. And I definitely want to dive into that a bit more, but first, um, let's just talk about parameters around different things. So before we talk about intra run, let's talk about before a run. So when should athletes fuel before a run? Any run? Let's kind of dive into that.

SPEAKER_01 16:47

I recommend, if you can, fueling before any run, especially if it's been more than an hour or two since you last ate. I know a lot of times we think of those early morning runs, but if you're doing an afternoon run, if you have it eight for a couple hours, it's good to add in some pre-run fuel. General guidelines would be if you're running for less than 60 minutes, aim for 25 plus grams of carbs. An example of that would be like a nature's bakery big bar would be an easy digestible option to have before.

SPEAKER_02 17:22

Yeah, I actually just got a bunch of those from Costco. Um perfect. Obsessed with those. I'm obsessed with those.

SPEAKER_01 17:28

They're so good. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:30

And what if someone has, let's say, like a 60 plus minute run in the morning? Well, how many carbs would you recommend?

SPEAKER_01 17:37

If you're between 60 to 90 minutes, I would aim for 50 grams of carbs. If you can get in a few grams of protein, that would be beneficial as well. That could even just be a smear of peanut butter. You're getting some protein from that. I think the big thing is needing an asterisk with that because it's how much time do you have? How does your stomach handle it? I've had clients that could eat a full spaghetti like a meal and immediately go for a 10-mile run and they would be perfectly fine. And other runners have more of a sensitive stomach and then they can't quite handle it. So a big thing is to try different things, figure out the timing that you need. And I always say that, you know, if you're going to be going for over 60 minutes, but you can get down a gel and an applesauce pouch, it might be under the needs, but that's going to be better than not doing anything at all. And then you can also consider taking some fuel during the run, too, even though it's maybe outside of those guidelines of when you typically need fuel.

SPEAKER_02 18:39

Yeah, no, absolutely. And what about a speed workout? So I know that's kind of a it's different. We have time, right? And then we have effort. What if someone's doing a less than 60 minute speed workout?

SPEAKER_01 18:51

I would still kind of aim for the 25 plus grams of carbs before. And then seeing how you feel during it. Are you starting to get low energy towards that last couple efforts? Then take some fuel with you. And again, it can be really good practice for a race day. If you're training for a race that you're going to be fueling during about taking it during those faster pieces.

SPEAKER_02 19:15

Yeah, love that. So now let's segue into the running during. So fueling during a run. Um, what's the kind of current recommendation? Let's start with a run that's less than 60 minutes.

SPEAKER_01 19:27

Less than 60 minutes typically, if you're fueling properly beforehand, you're usually okay not to take anything during. I will say there are times when I have recommended fueling. It's when they're struggling to eat enough before, immediately heading out the door. Or I've had clients who were struggling with disordered eating and really not eating enough. And it became that I don't care how far you're running, you're not eating enough throughout the day. Like if you're going to be running, you need to fuel during it.

SPEAKER_02 20:03

So I think it's it'll probably come down to like your relationship with fueling and how you're taking care of yourself. It's probably kind of complicated. And that's where working with you.

SPEAKER_01 20:12

Yeah, that's why that's why everything is so hard because it's like, well, it depends. And it's like, I hate saying that because it's it feels that it's not giving someone an answer, but it really is so dependent on what you're training for, what you're used to, what your goals are, like all of those things.

SPEAKER_02 20:30

Yeah. And if a run is over 60 minutes, what's the current like scientific recommendation?

SPEAKER_01 20:36

So 60 to 90 minutes, I found is a little bit of a gray zone. So some runners perfectly fine to not fuel during it. Other clients feel, especially in that like 70 to 80 some minutes, is like I can get through it, but I end up not feeling the best. I'm pretty fatigued after like the rest of the day on shot. And it's okay, then we need to fuel on every run over. And it might not be we need to fuel every 30 minutes like you typically would during a long run, but let's at least add one fueling in, maybe halfway through, maybe closer to 45 minutes. That is what I would typically recommend. And then anything over 90 minutes, it's definitely recommend to fuel during, and then how many grams is really going to be based on what your goal race is. Are you training for a half marathon? Needs are closer to 30 to 60 grams of carbs per hour. Are you training for a marathon where we're wanting to get closer to 60 to 90 plus grams of carbs per hour? So it's important to think about not only what the distance is for that day, but also what is the end goal. Like, are we in a place where we're building up to a higher amount of carbs? So we might take in more during this run just to kind of start that building process.

SPEAKER_02 21:55

Yeah, and I like that approach too, because we're thinking about how long do we need to sustain this energy? If it's if it's a half, it's different than someone who knows they'll be running 26.2 and they need to get their body ready for that and the glycogen ready for that and prepared during the race, right? So it's it's totally different. Um, okay, let's talk about after a run. So, how should runners, and I've heard different things, right? I've heard like within 30 minutes, and then I heard, I think it was a couple years ago, that the window actually is much broader. Where does the science kind of stand right now on getting fuel in post-run? And what would you recommend that be?

SPEAKER_01 22:33

Yeah, they kind of mentioned that fueling is always called like this window, that it might be more of a garage door versus the window. But the big thing about thinking if it is a garage door, the most important factor is like how much are you getting in total throughout the day? And always find if you're doing a long run and you're not getting done with your run till 10 or 11 a.m., you have a lot shorter time frame to get all those calories in if you're not fueling immediately. So if you're done at 10, you're not hungry till noon, like you have that smaller time frame. And I also think about all the clients I've worked with, most of them, they're feeling better, they're recovering faster when they're fueling within that 30 to 45 minutes of finishing the run. And as I tell my clients, we have your ideal guidelines, right? If you can get that one to three ratio of carbs to protein, so like aiming somewhere to 40 to 60 grams of carbs, 10 to 20, 10 to 20 grams of protein, great. But in a perfect world that doesn't always work out. And I'm like, I would rather see you get in something. I don't want you to stress about is it this perfect ratio? If you can, great. But if you're stressing about it, or if it's like I drove to this trail run, I have this protein shake, maybe it doesn't have the right ratio or it doesn't have quite enough carbs. Okay. Start with that, but then we're really going to focus on carbs for that meal that you're going to get in when you get back.

SPEAKER_02 26:28

Right. And there's probably, I would guess, differentiation between people who successfully fuel during the run with carbs and people who don't. And then they end and they're like, wow, I really need those carbs. Um, is there a differentiation there and how much carbs would be needed afterward?

SPEAKER_01 26:45

It there would be a difference because thinking that you kind of went into your glycogen stores, emptied them a lot more than somebody who was continuously taking carbs in and able to use that for energy. I don't know if there's like gonna ever be a specific number that they would know exactly what to hit for. But I think as long as you can get in a good amount of carbs, you're getting some protein. I always recommend chocolate milk. If you're somebody who can handle dairy, it's got the perfect ratio of carbs to protein. It's a fluid, it's also gonna help rehydrate you. It has electrolytes, it really kind of checks all the boxes. And especially after a long run, sometimes the thought of eating something is the last thing you want to do, but it can be a little bit easier to drink something. So, like a chocolate milk, a smoothie, even a protein shake, like milk with protein powder. Again, probably not enough carbs in it, but there's some, and that's gonna be better than not doing anything at all.

SPEAKER_02 27:47

Right, absolutely. Carbs are key, and also there are brain's fuel. I feel like you can totally feel in your brain when you haven't had enough carbs, it's like, oh, I need a snack and not just protein, but I need some carbs. So we've talked a ton about the fueling around your run, right? Why is it important before we dive into carboloading, which is a whole different can of worms? Why is fueling before, during, and after even important? And why is it kind of blowing up on the internet right now?

SPEAKER_01 28:13

It is definitely blowing up. I feel like we're slowly moving out of the thinner equals faster and more into the fueled equals faster, which as a dietitian in the running space, I love to see it. I think it's, you know, seeing it as it's your body's energy. And I will sometimes describe it as like your body is a car and you're gonna go on this cross-country journey. You're not starting off with your car on E. No, you're gonna keep it filled up, you're gonna start with the full tank so that you can kind of go as long as possible before really needing to stop for gas a little bit different because we want to keep things like topped off. We don't want to dig yourself into a hole, but I always kind of see like that fuel as your body's fuel tank.

SPEAKER_02 29:03

Yeah, absolutely. And I I always joke because I always run my car to empty, and my husband's like, why do you always drive it till it's literally on E? And he's like, You shouldn't do that. It's bad for the car to drive it that far. So now it's kind of I have my husband in my head all the time. It's like, yeah, we gotta, we gotta stay fuel, we gotta keep the energy.

SPEAKER_01 29:20

Same thing with your body. I mean, think about how you feel like when you're super hangry, you're not happy, you're in a crappy mood, you don't feel good. It's like putting your body through that same thing.

SPEAKER_02 29:33

Yeah, and it's you know, you've been there, I've been there, and the thinner equals faster mindset, it does so much negative, negative things to your body, right? The hormonally, especially that's an area of passion for mine, for me. I hormone health and things like that. It's so bad for your hormone health. But not only that, the benefit the things that we see with cardiovascular health, lung health, digestive health.

SPEAKER_01 29:57

Hormone health, all of that. And you don't always know that it's happening. Like you can't you can't see it happening, and you may not feel it or it feels it to the level that it's impacting you.

SPEAKER_02 30:09

Yeah. And some of it's hard to reverse, right? And we could dive into red S and that's a whole different um area. But yeah, I just wanted to touch on that quickly for the people listening who are like, oh, this fueling, like, why is it so important? Um, because it is. So carbo loading now. Let's talk a little bit about the strategy with that. Um, I feel like some people who are newer to running as they get into it, they might just start with like a 5K or maybe a 10K if they get a little further along. Is carbo loading necessary for those types of events?

SPEAKER_01 30:40

No, typically you're not going to need to carb load for a 5K or 10K. You'll have enough glycogen stores. Now you might want to increase your carbs the night before at dinner. Don't need to do anything extreme, but having, like if you're having rights, like adding another half a cup, adding another spoonful, things like that could be an easy option to help have a little bit more carbs to help with glycogen stores, but carb loading really comes into play for the half marathon, marathon, ultra marathon distances.

SPEAKER_02 31:14

Yeah, let's talk about that then. So carbo loading for half, what does that look like? How many days, how many carbs, etc.?

SPEAKER_01 31:21

Typically for a half marathon, I would recommend anywhere from a one to a two day, sometimes a three day, but most of the time you're gonna be okay with a one to a two day, and you're gonna aim anywhere from eight to twelve grams per kilogram of body weights. And it's gonna actually be the same amount for a marathon. It's just I would recommend the two to three days versus the one to two days. So like adding in an extra day for the marathon. Gotcha.

SPEAKER_02 31:51

And I know people too are always tapering around these races and they're like eating more carbs and they feel a little weird. But once you start running, it's you feel that energy. You notice that, yeah. Wow, you're like, this feels so good. Um, so it's totally worth it for everybody listening. Okay, great. And let's talk a little bit about now your opinions on nutritional composition outside of all this we've just talked about, right? So carbs around running, things like that. What should a day in the life of fueling during, let's say someone's training for, and it's probably different if they're training for like a really fast 5K versus a marathon, but what should a day in the life of fueling look like for someone who's generally training consistently? Let's just put it that way.

SPEAKER_01 32:34

Training consistently, yeah. I think a big part would be looking at your carb intake, especially if you are in a high level of training, making sure like ash training is increasing, you're increasing your carbohydrates with it because again, your body is utilizing it so much for energy, you need it for other bodily functions as well to make sure that you have enough to support your body. And you know, sometimes I'll think about like what your plate looks like and how it's gonna adapt versus being in the off-season versus light training, moderate high training. And the really the big difference is the amount of carbs cut or the amount of calories coming from like starchy carbs is increasing as you go from like off season all the way to like your high training.

SPEAKER_02 33:30

Gotcha. And as carbs goes up, as your training goes up, do the other macronutrients go down? Do they shift, or how does that work?

SPEAKER_01 33:38

Yeah, mainly your protein stays about the same throughout the different stages, but your like fruits and veggies, your non-starchy carbs are going to decrease so that you're making room for more of the starchy carbs since your body's utilizing more of that for energy.

SPEAKER_02 34:00

Yeah, and I feel like a lot of the carbs too will come in while you're running, right? So, like in the intra-run fueling, before you run, after you run, and you'll be like, oh, this went up naturally because I have to take so much more to compensate for this amount of load. Um, so that's yeah, that makes total sense. What about for people who enter an offseason? So they're not necessarily training consistently, they're running for fun here and there. Well, how does your plate, if you will, kind of shift?

SPEAKER_01 34:28

Yeah, so like your plate instead of being anywhere from half to three fourths of the starchy cards, it would be more like maybe a quarter of it. But again, it depends what that off season is. Cause I've had runners who are like, I'm in an off-season and they're still running like 35 to 40 miles. And I'm like, yeah, you're still you're still in a high amount of training or like what are your other activities? Maybe your running is decreasing, but are you cycling more? Are you strength training more? So those are all things to look at. And it's, you know, if whole activity is down, then yeah, definitely make that switch down. But if you're trading it out for other activities where you're still needing a lot of carbs, that's uh something I would still want to take a look into.

SPEAKER_02 35:15

Yeah. And as it, that's you know, that makes me think. What is kind of the parameters when you think about how much? Is it how much cardio are you doing? Is that the kind of question you ask? Or how do you measure that?

SPEAKER_01 35:27

Yeah, it's how much cardio you're doing, like how much time are you spending working out? Like what other like strength training activities, like how much time are you spending in the gym? Or are you picking up different activities? Like, are you playing tennis for like three hours on Saturday or pickleball or something? So it's like, okay, they're not one-to-one, but maybe you're still utilizing your cards just in a slightly different way. Right. It's always good to get like feedback. Like, how are you feeling? Do you feel like you have enough energy? Are you like having any cravings? Sometimes we see cravings as bad things. Sometimes cravings can be our key into okay, your body's craving carbs. Like it's not you just being weak and needing sugar. It's your body saying, like, no, I need some more carbs to support activity, to support recovery, to support brain function, whatever it might be. So, not necessarily seeing the cravings as a bad thing.

SPEAKER_02 36:28

Yeah, absolutely. That's a really good way of putting it as well. Okay, so let's talk a little bit about things that are personal to you. So Kent, this is kind of a fun topic. So tell us five foods you never go without, especially as a running dietitian.

SPEAKER_01 36:44

Ooh, okay, so I would say fig bars. I know we talked about that a little bit earlier. I love fig bars for pre-run fuel. I did a story about them a few weeks back, and the amount of messages that people were like, oh my gosh, like I have those, but I've never thought to use them for fuel before. And they work really well, they sit well, they do have some fiber in it. So if you are like very sensitive to fiber, it might not be a good option for you, but it's definitely something I love and I would recommend trying out.

SPEAKER_02 37:18

Yeah, no, me too. Do you have any other foods other than food bars?

SPEAKER_01 37:23

I would also say strew waffles. I like them too. Well, they're kind of like a little bit of a treat before I run. And especially in the morning when I'm not, I'm not always hungry. I'm not always excited about eating pre-run fuel, even though I know I need it. An option like that, where I'm like, okay, I like the way this tastes. It can make it a little bit easier to taste.

SPEAKER_02 37:45

Yeah, no, for sure. And what about um fuel before? We talked about carbo loading earlier, but like great carb sources for a carbo load. Like, what are your favorite?

SPEAKER_01 37:55

My favorites, I like liquid carbs. I always find the first day of carb loading is really exciting. And then by day two, I'm like, I want a steak and a salad. I want anything other than carbs. So liquid calories like a Gatorade. Doing endurance drinks can really help meet needs. I will usually throw a Pop Tart in either every day or at least once during the card load. Again, a really high carb source, orange juice, and then kind of like the typical bagel, rice, potatoes, those kind of things scattered throughout for meals too.

SPEAKER_02 38:32

Yeah, and this made me think of something. So we'll come back to this, but segueing for a minute. Something that I've heard is to like um deter from carby foods that have a lot of fats in them when you're carboading, because that can be hard on the or fiber, as you mentioned, on the digestive system. Is that true just for people who are like, oh, I'm gonna eat a ton of ice cream the night before, or things like that?

SPEAKER_01 38:53

Yes, it's better to go low fat, low fiber, just because that can slow digestion down and we won't, we don't want GI issues on race day. So maybe like two days before the race, you could, you know, maybe play around with a little bit more fat and fiber, but the day before, I would definitely keep it pretty low. And again, like I always recommend for my clients to do we do a practice partload. Usually it's during peak week, sometimes one other time, just so that we can work out any kinks and figure out what foods work best for them, what's gonna work while they're if they're traveling for the race, so that when it comes to race week, there's not any surprises. It's we know that this works really well for them.

SPEAKER_02 39:37

Yeah, love it. Okay, so back to your favorites. Let's talk about intra-run fueling options. What are your favorite gels? And then I also want to talk about natural fueling options.

SPEAKER_01 39:47

Yes. So my favorite gels are probably the SIS beta fuel. I like those. I also like the Amex. They have this, I think it's lemon lime. It tastes just like Sprite to me. So it's kind of like a fun little treat, and I like the way it tastes. Um, I've used goo liquid a lot last summer too. So I'm not super picky, and again, I prefer some of the higher carb gels so that I don't have to take it every like 20 minutes. I can spread it out a little bit more. And then I also really like salty carbs by Runway, their endurance fuel. I just I love the way it tastes. So that's always an option that I'll put in my handheld or in uh collapsible in my vest.

SPEAKER_02 40:34

Love that. And what about people who like to fuel with natural sources? What are some good ways to do that?

SPEAKER_01 40:41

So, some good ways for that, and I'm gonna put natural in quotation marks because uh this was also on my list. Like, I like Swedish fish too, or sour patch kids. Usually after Halloween or certain holidays, I raid my kids candy buckets and see what I can use for use for fuel. There's also runners that I'll make, especially in the ultra scene. I feel like there's a lot more of the using non-sports nutrition products, uh like rice balls, like the mini potatoes, like boiling those up, putting some salt on it can be a good fuel option as well.

SPEAKER_02 41:21

Yeah, and thinking of candy, what's like a fat level to be aware of when it would come to like that might upset your stomach? Like I feel like Reese's might be or something. Yeah, I know.

SPEAKER_01 41:32

I usually lean towards more gummy candy. I also find that it won't be like messy, especially during the summer. Not try to open a Snickers and it's just completely melted. So I find that gummy candy works really well. So on your next run, even if you're not training for an ultra, like if you just want to have some fun, change fueling up, grab some candy, prefer like gummy candy and fuel with that.

SPEAKER_02 41:59

Yeah, love it. Um, your favorite before-run meals. So I know I didn't ask snacks because I think it would be fig bars, and I for everyone listening, you need to go get some fig bars.

SPEAKER_01 42:09

Yeah, they're like is she sponsored by the fig bar?

SPEAKER_02 42:12

Well, go to Costco, and if you don't have Costco, they're nature's bakery fig bars.

SPEAKER_01 42:16

There's literally at Sam's Club too. Aldi has their own version of it too. So if you shop there, you can have an option.

SPEAKER_02 42:24

And I feel like Fig Newton was the OG one, and now there's so many variations that kind of taste better. No offense to Fig Newton. Um, but what's your favorite? Like, if you had time to have a meal and then you knew your run would be in an hour or two, what would you eat for a balanced meal?

SPEAKER_01 42:40

I would probably do a bagel and do some like jelly on it. That's kind of like my favorite, kind of like a little bit heavier option. I have a little bit more time. I like that. I was on a frozen waffle kick a couple years ago. I kind of got birds out of them. So good. So I feel like I can bring them back now, but those worked really well. They sat well, they're they're delicious, they're fun.

SPEAKER_02 43:06

Truly so good. I grew up on egg a waffle, so I appreciate that. And then after run, your favorite meal.

SPEAKER_01 43:14

Oh, I am especially during the summer, I'm such a liquid person. So if I can have again chocolate milk, if I can make a smoothie, that's definitely my favorite. And then after that, if I can have pizza, especially if it's like a 20-mile run, like I want to drink something, and then maybe an hour later, like I'm like, okay, I'm ready to crush some pizza right now.

SPEAKER_02 43:39

Love that. Love that. Okay, something I also realized that I wanted to touch on was hydration, just real quickly. So hydration during a run, um, how important is it? Is it always necessary? I know we sometimes see people flex that they don't hydrate at all, and that you know, that's not necessarily good at all. So, what's your two two cents on that?

SPEAKER_01 43:59

Yeah, there's people love to flex about doing stuff that's like against recommendations. It's like, oh, I did this 20-mile run and I didn't fuel on it. And it's like, great, what do you want? Right. Congrats on hurting yourself. You felt like crap. So, or it's like you could have felt so much better.

SPEAKER_02 44:16

Right.

SPEAKER_01 44:16

Yeah, hydration gets really tricky. And again, not to keep saying it depends, but typically under 60 minutes, if you're well hydrated before, not as necessarily different. And then if it's gonna be like really hot, really humid, bring it with you because again, it's like you'd rather have that to help stay hydrated, help keep your body temp a little bit lower. Maybe you can splash some on yourself. Like that's gonna be important. It becomes a little bit more necessary for the runs over 60 minutes, and recommendations can be anywhere between 16 to 24 ounces of fluid per hour. And I will say most runners, myself included, are not drinking that amount. So it's important to stay on top of hydration and think about even electrolytes. Do you have electrolytes in your gels? Do you have electrolytes in your fluids? So instead of just doing water, you're gonna either do an electrolyte or an endurance drink to help replenish some of that sodium that you're losing. Yeah, is sodium the most important electrolyte for people to look out for? Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's the one that you're losing in the highest quantities. So it's the one that, yeah, that's why it's like all about sodium and how much sodium you're losing, how much is in your sweat and even electrolyte products. Like typically they're containing other electrolytes, but sodium's kind of the big one.

SPEAKER_02 45:44

Mm-hmm. Gotcha. Okay, and Amy, we're gonna round it out with some fact or fiction and then advice from you. So, first one, and I feel like we've touched on a lot of these, but first one is you must eat within 30 minutes of running.

SPEAKER_01 45:58

Yeah, I mean, must is a strong word. I'm gonna say no because you're not gonna come bust if you don't eat within 30 minutes. But are you gonna potentially help recover better? Are you gonna feel better yourself if you do?

SPEAKER_02 46:15

Got it. And I'm gonna change must on this second one then. You should have carbs during any run over 60 minutes.

SPEAKER_01 46:25

Can we change it over 90 minutes? Yes. Okay. If it's over 90 minutes, yes. If it's yeah, like I would rather see somebody fuel when they're when like the recommendations are like, oh, you don't necessarily need to than have somebody not fuel. Like it's it's so much better to fuel than to not fuel.

SPEAKER_02 46:47

Yeah, I agree, I agree. Um, men and women have different fueling needs.

SPEAKER_01 46:55

Yeah, I mean, fueling's so hard because if it's like day-to-day nutrition, like yes, like needs are going to be different based on gender, based on a lot of other factors too. When it comes to like during the run fuel, it's more based on time versus based on weight. Right. Which or even gender.

SPEAKER_02 47:15

So gotcha. Love it. Kind of uh ambiguous again. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 47:22

No, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_02 47:24

It's tough. Like that's that's what you do for a living, is how people answer these questions.

SPEAKER_01 47:28

Yeah. And I wish, like I said, I wish it was simple. I wish I could just be like, yes, it's versus it depends. But yeah, there's so many factors that go into it.

SPEAKER_02 47:39

Yeah, because even among women, it's so different between each woman. So you can't necessarily just put a blanket over it. Okay, last one. Simple carbs are just as important as complex carbs during training.

SPEAKER_01 47:52

Yeah. So yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 47:55

Explain what's the difference between the two for people listening? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:58

So if you think about simple carbs, they're going to be like your white bread, your white rice. Maybe you've seen it labeled and you can't see me, but I'm doing quotation marks labeled as unhealthy carbs versus complex or whole grain. You're gonna see more fiber. And they both have their place. Simple carbs are going to be best for pre and And during the run, complex carbs are going to be important the rest of the time.

SPEAKER_02 48:27

Gotcha. Both are key. And Amy, let's round it out with some advice you have for runners who are interested in performing better by utilizing fueling.

SPEAKER_01 48:38

Yes. I think it's all about figuring out what works best for you. And as I tell my clients, like sometimes your needs might be slightly outside of what you see as sports nutrition guidelines for runners. And that doesn't mean you're bad, doesn't mean you're wrong, or that you need to try to conform. It's that, you know what, this is what your body needs, and to go with what your body needs. Now, if it's way under the recommendations, I'd be like, uh, is there a chance where like maybe wanting it to be there? Or I see it more times with a client needed to fuel more often, needed a few more carbs for their half marathon training. And I'm like, if that's what you need to feel good, then we're gonna go with that. We're not gonna try to cut it down to make you fuel, or especially within I talked about that like gray zone for fueling during runs. Like, no matter how this client fueled before, they were always kind of struggling in that 70 to 80 minutes. So we're like, we're gonna add in fuel because this is what you need to feel your best.

SPEAKER_02 49:45

I love that because each person, there's not a prescribed formula that's like the same for everybody, right? It has to be individualized and every person has different needs, and that's where you come in. So, Amy, where can people find you and work with you?

SPEAKER_01 49:58

Yes, so you can find me at runningdietitian.com or on Instagram at the underscore running underscore dietitian. And if you have any questions or if you want to share my love for big bars, send me a DM. I would love to chat with you.

SPEAKER_02 50:17

Perfect, perfect. Amy, thank you so much for jumping on today. It was such a great conversation.

SPEAKER_01 50:22

Thanks so much for having me.