190. Skincare Musts, Tips, Advice with Industry Expert Margot

In this episode I chat with skincare expert and Elizabeth Grant Skincare Vice President Margot Grant-Witz. We chat about all things skincare: what products to look for, what ingredients, what's the deal with acids, retinol, vitamin C, tallow, sunscreen and MORE! 

Find Elizabeth Grant products at:

https://elizabethgrant.com/collections/margots-favourites

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:18

The majority of people don't make their own products. So the majority of products are all the same. Like the expensive one and the cheap one. It's usually the same stuff in the bottle with a different name.

SPEAKER_00 0:29

What should consumers or people interested in skincare, what should they be looking for as far as the active ingredients?

SPEAKER_01 0:35

And then the gold standard that everyone can legally say will make you look younger is a accutane one. It's like um, it's like a pause button for acne. So what that means is while you're on it, your skin can be clearer, it might be dry. The second you stop it, it all comes back.

SPEAKER_00 0:55

Acne is just if your skin is freaking out, what makes it freak out? What about beef tallow? What's your take on that? And vitamin C, is that an essential thing? Would like to hear your skincare routine? Because as someone who works in that industry, I feel like we'd all love to hear. That's interesting. And thinking of aging is sunscreen. I've heard that's like the number one thing that you should be using every single day for your skincare. Is that true? Yes and no. Welcome to the Knight Fit Podcast. I'm your host, Emily Knight. I'm a running and strength coach whose primary mission is to help runners reach their goals and maintain their strength without sacrificing their true health. On this podcast, we talk about all things health and fitness so that you can stay up to date on some of today's latest research. I host inspiring guests, drop solo episodes where I explore pertinent topics and get to the heart of many of our questions around what it means to chase our fitness goals and prioritize our wellness. So sit back and get ready for an awesome conversation. Hey everybody, and welcome back to the Nightfit Podcast. Super excited to have you guys here today. Today I am chatting with Margo of Canada's Elizabeth Grant skincare brand. We're going to be chatting about all things, skincare, an area that I'm super passionate about. So, Margo, welcome to the podcast.

SPEAKER_01 2:13

Thank you so much for having me. And I'm really grateful for the opportunity to be here. It's not just to talk about my family's company, but to help make people feel better about aging and skincare and all that.

SPEAKER_00 2:26

Yeah, no, for sure. So I always start by having my guests introduce themselves, sharing personal, professional, and then what I find to be the hardest fun facts.

SPEAKER_01 2:37

Okay. Uh I'm Margo Grantwitz. I am the third generation of Elizabeth Grant Skincare. Elizabeth is my grandma. She started the company about 80 years ago, 80 plus years ago. And uh we have been making, manufacturing, and formulating every single product in-house in our privately owned manufacturing facility here in Toronto, Canada. My mom is uh the president of the company, but she is my grandmother's daughter-in-law. They're not related by blood, just by marriage. And we have been the fun, I would say the fun version of the Brady Bunch, but we're not really the Brady Bunch. It's just we work and play and eat and retreat together for the past, at least for me, 20 years in counting.

SPEAKER_00 3:25

That's awesome. Okay, cool. And how did your, I'm curious, how did your grandma get into skincare? That's such a cool area. So she didn't want to get into skincare.

SPEAKER_01 3:34

My grandmother was a makeup artist at El Street Studios in London, England. And unfortunately, she suffered from a bomb blast during World War II. And all she wanted to do was go back to work. She was fiercely independent. She was making her own money. She was comfortable and confident in her skin, and it was all taken away from her. And she just wanted to go back to work and she wanted to feel good and comfortable in her skin again. And she always said she couldn't, she felt like she couldn't make someone feel beautiful if she didn't look beautiful. It was hard to, it's almost like going to a personal trainer who is more on the unfit side than the fit side. You're kind of like, How can I take your advice? And so she was just on a mission to fix her skin. And so she went to her doctors every single day to say, Hey, what do you have for me? Because she was very lucky. She had the gift of the gap. And she didn't let them. What they used to do is they used to take a sticker, put it on the skin, and rip everything out, like an assembly line, like, okay, off you go, off you go, off you go. She said, Please, please don't. And somehow she convinced the doctor, and the surgeon took every piece out individually. So it minimized the sort of extra damage that could have happened in the process of trying to repair. And then every day she would go back to her doctor and say, What do you have for me? Like, do you have something today? What do you have? And he said, I have nothing for you, but I'm just gonna go see a patient. I'll be right back. And it was tea time. And she always joked that there wasn't a Vogue magazine in the doctor's office. So she was nosy, she was bored. So she went up to the journals and she picked up a book. She always said that her father, who passed away when she was seven, was always looking out for her. She opened up the book and it said war wounds. And she scribbled it down the term because she said, I have a war room. And as she came at as she was writing it down, the doctor came back, closed the book, and said, You really wouldn't understand those big words. So don't even bother. Let's go have tea. And she went off to a friend of hers and said, Do you know what this is? And he said, Yeah, it's a type of substance that they use from the front lines to the hospital to minimize the burn, to minimize the damage. She said, Will you make it for me? And he said, Elizabeth, it's not going to help you. She said, I didn't ask you if you thought it would help me. I asked you, can you make it for me? And it is lovingly known as the essence of Trisulum today. It's been around for 80 years in counting. It was the very first serum for at-home beauty use in the market. It was launched in 1948 because it repaired her skin in about eight to 10 months. Scars went away, but she's still deaf in her left ear. Wow. And uh she went back to work and she was working on Miss Vivian Lee, the actress from Gone with the Wind. And Miss Vivian Lee looked at her and said, You have gorgeous skin. What do you use? And my grandmother fell off this chair. She was like, What are you talking about? And she sheepishly went into her bag and she took out this teeny tiny vial and she's like, This is what I use. And a few weeks later she came back because they didn't film in a continuous motion. And she said, I love it. Where can I get it? And my grandmother said, I'll be right back. And she like batched it in her bathtub and she just kept going.

SPEAKER_00 6:51

That's incredible. Can you explain what's in it? Like what and the name again, because I you said it quickly.

SPEAKER_01 6:58

So it is our number one selling product. It is called the Supreme Essence of Trislam. And Trislam is our proprietary compound of vitamins, nutrients, minerals, amino acids, peptides, and all the good stuff that's good for your skin. But what it comes from is a particular type of sea kelp that we harvest twice a year from northern ocean. We replant it. Don't worry. We're not here to remove everything. And we bring it back to our laboratories and we just put it in a giant kitchen aid of goodness. And it's in every single one of our products except for our perfume. And the essence is the purest form.

SPEAKER_00 7:37

Wow. Okay, cool. So she took something that she didn't originally understand and she started making it herself. And then she ended up working with that actress. And then it kind of became that's how she started getting into it. Okay, amazing. And when she started getting into skincare in the manufacturing business, what did that look like? Did she go off in different directions? Did she focus on this one product? Or how did her brand evolve?

SPEAKER_01 8:03

So my grandmother had different products, but she wasn't involved in the manufacturing. Because I think it's important to remember what decade it was 48, 58, 68, 78, 8. Women were not allowed to own a business. My grandfather was actually the one on paper as the owner of the business. My mother couldn't even get a credit card without my father in the 80s. And so it was one of those things that she just sort of said, someone else will do it. My mother in 1999, when we relaunched in Toronto, Canada, because my grandmother retired in 92 when my grandfather passed away. She came from South Africa to Canada. And my mom one day said, Let's relaunch Elizabeth Grant. And my grandmother said, That's cute. I'm old. No, I don't want to like knock on doors anymore. And there was something for the shopping channel here in Toronto, and that's very much like QBC or HSN or all of those types of Omni channels. And at the time it was just pictures and voices. And then all of a sudden it was live people. And my mother and my grandmother were both watching it and they were like, oh my God, there are people. And they called each other and they said, Let's try it. But my mother, she said, the money is in the manufacturing. Because when you go to another manufacturer, you pay for their overhead, you pay for the supplies, you pay for the material, you pay for the lights, you pay for all of it. So a product that potentially could have cost you $3 to make, it's going to cost you anywhere between five and $10 to make. And so my mother said, the money's in the manufacturing. And I want to ensure the quality of the product. Because when you go to another manufacturer, what happens quite often, and this is, I love to demystify this for people, is the majority of the world's skincare, about 90% of the world's skincare, isn't made by their brand. It's all outsourced. And we're one of the only, if not the only, privately owned companies in the entire world, privately owned by three generations of women who make, manufacture, and formulate everything in-house. So we were able to maintain the quality. We were able to say also from a woman's perspective, how our skin is aging and changing and how we're responding. And also from a woman's perspective, we weren't meant to, we weren't made to feel bad about that aging. We weren't sort of said, like, this is what you should look like, or this is the numbers of candles that you should have in order to be beautiful. We just appreciated that myself at 41, my mom, who's now 73, my grandmother, who's 103.

SPEAKER_00 10:45

No way. Yeah. Wow, that's amazing.

SPEAKER_01 10:48

It's nice to sort of talk from us versus you should be this way.

SPEAKER_00 10:53

Yeah. Okay, wow, 103. Okay, that is absolutely incredible. Um, and I kind of want to dive into this because three generations of wisdom in skincare, right? And as someone who loves skincare myself, there's things I want to know. Um, and I try like many different products, but what are some truths that you wish more people knew about skincare?

SPEAKER_01 12:58

Well, the majority of people don't make their own products, so the majority of products are all the same, like the expensive one and the cheap one. It's usually the same stuff in the bottle with a different name. And if you sort of there's this, uh there's always the conversation, you know, you follow the money and then you see where the goes, right? But you should also follow the owners. And when you sort of turn around and go, I know that Estee Lauder owns all of these brands. I know that LVMH, for example, owns Sephora, I know that LVMH also owns Dior. So all of the brands that are in it, you're kind of sitting there going, Wait, if they own this and they own this and they kind of feel the same, and you look at the back of the ingredients, you go, Oh, it's it's the same. And so what happens is when people sort of fall for the marketing or they fall for the trendiness, or they fall for the um the fancy face who's like telling you this is the best product in the whole wide world, it's almost like that person, your crush, who comes up to you and goes, Hey girl, how are you? And they've never spoken to you before, but all of a sudden there's a test coming up, and you know you're smart in that subject, right? It feels disingenuous. And so I think when a lot of people can appreciate you can just look at the back of the product and read the ingredients, you can see if there's a parent company who owns it, and then be smarter with your dollars, you know, be smarter with the product you like to use versus the one you feel that you have to use, or this is the trendy one and I have to buy it, but it's $300, and I don't know if I can afford it, but everyone's talking about it. It's one of those things, use the if you if you're not gonna use it, it's not gonna do anything. So find the product that you like that feels good for your skin, that you're getting the results that you're hoping for from your skin, and just keep being the smart, incredible consumer that you are.

SPEAKER_00 15:10

Yeah, no doubt. Okay, that's good to know. And I think food industry is no different. Why wouldn't the skincare industry be different? Um, okay, love that. And then if we're actually breaking it down, so getting into all these things might contain the same ingredients. They might have the same list of active ingredients, especially the things that are making a difference on your skin. What should consumers or people interested in skincare, what should they be looking for as far as the active ingredients? I know there's things like hyaluronic acid, or like you mentioned the serum or things like that. What should consumers be looking for?

SPEAKER_01 15:46

So I think a lot of uh I tend to say this because even though I know uh community members and men can feel the same way, I feel like a lot of women are terrified of looking older. And so they go for things like, oh, there's collagen. I need collagen. And it's like you're 25, you don't need collagen, right?

SPEAKER_04 16:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:07

Um, but if you know the science of how your skin is aging, so what your skin type is, what your uh responses to are. I mean, if you have combination, by the way, everyone has combination skin. I love I always say normal with like uh air quotes because everyone has combination skin. Some places are drier, some places are oilier, like if you know you have reactive skin, sensitive skin, if dehydrated skin, these are the terms to know about your skin, which will then lead to the right ingredients. But for example, if you go, oh, I need a peptide, nine times out of ten, if you ask someone, do you know what a peptide is? You go, no. So peptides are short chain amino acids that feed your collagen. So it gives you the right diet that later on in life it's actually helping to rewire the fibers of that collagen that's breaking down. So things like amino acids, peptides, um, ceramides, all exceptional ingredients to build the reservoir of your skin. Because the biggest aspect that you want for your skin, and everyone poo-poos this, it's so funny, is hydration. Because the difference between a grape and a raisin is dehydration. And your skin starts out as this beautiful grape. And whether it's based on environment or diet or age, you start to become a little bit more raisin y and you go, wait, well, why not? And so everyone goes, Well, I drink so much water. And I love that. Well, your skin's your largest organ. And so water goes to a lot of other places before it's going to go to your skin. It's going to go to your liver, it's going to go to your kidney, it's going to go to your circulation, it's going to go where it needs to go. And then to cover your skin, you need to give it that inside and outside. So I love hyaluron, which is a larger, well, there's different molecule sizes, small, crosslink, and uh large, but it holds a thousand times its own weight and moisture. I love glycolic acid or alpha hydroxy acids or polyhydroxic acids. And people hear acids and think, oh my god, I have sensitive skin. No, it's not like that.

SPEAKER_00 18:18

It's not acid.

SPEAKER_01 18:21

Yeah, it's the ones you buy over the counter are smaller in terms of percentages, but nothing should ever hurt to work, nothing should ever burn or anything. So those are amazing. And then the gold standard that everyone can legally say will make you look younger is a retinol, but not all retinoles are created equal. So you have to sort of learn about them and learn about how your skin responds to them. And that's the perfect blend. I always say hydrate and clean. And that's how I look at acids, like those deep cleaners, those deep exfoliators. Gotcha. You want to get the gunk out, you want to get the dead skin off. You want to get them, you know. I always say it this way when you leave winter and you go into spring, you change your clothes and you get rid of the jackets, and you're like, oh, it just feels lighter. That's what the acids do for your skin. It just sloths off the gunk.

SPEAKER_00 19:15

Gotcha. Okay. So peptides, ceramides, those things that help with the collagen, hyaluron. So getting kind of that moisture and retaining moisture, and then acids. And obviously, there's there's acids like you mentioned that are very harsh. Like for me, as someone who does have sensitive combination skin, like everyone, like you mentioned. And I actually didn't know that for the longest time. I thought I had oily skin, so I was drying it out all the time. You were stripping your sebaceous glands. Yes. Turns out I actually needed hydrating stuff, and now my skin is wonderful.

SPEAKER_01 19:48

It's like you do it's my favorite lesson I tell people. People go, wait, I have oily skin. I go, Yeah, but you still need to hydrate it because like if you strip the oil, your skin's still dry.

SPEAKER_00 19:58

Absolutely. So things like salicylic, I don't even know how to pronounce it. Salicylic. Salicylic acid, which is so commonly prescribed in different medications and also just over-the-counter purchasings that you can buy, like through um more popular brands. What's your take on that? Or really stronger like oxy? I don't know if you ever saw like the oxy wipes for your face or things that are like oxymipes. Yeah, they literally burn your face when you're using them. What's your take on that? And should people with acne or things like that use those types of products?

SPEAKER_01 20:31

Okay, so people with acne, we have to discuss what kind of acne. That's there's a lot of levels there. Right. But when I say it's the worst, is people are trained that if my skin is red, if my skin is burning, if my skin is tingling, oh, I guess that's working. It's right, perfect. But it's actually your skin is freaking out and being like, get off of me, because you're actually damaging your skin more than you're repairing your skin. So, for example, you said salicylic acid is tough for you, right? So then I would say to you use a polyhydroxic acid, which was under locking key from Johnson and Johnson for 30 years with a patent. And they didn't allow any other company to use it. And their patent expired, and then a lot of other people were able to use it. But polyhydroxic acid is the sensitive skin's best friend. It helps to it helps to repair damaged skin cells, it helps to be nourishing, it helps to prevent sun damage, it helps to exfoliate, but it's almost like the gentle big sister who's seen it all. It's like, I've seen it, I don't need to be, I've lived my lesson, I've learned the harsh, I don't want it for you. So I always recommend a polyhydroxic acid for someone to dip their toe into. But if you're talking about acne, acne needs the resurfacing because you want to remove what's trapping the oil, what's trapping the dirt, and to let it breathe. But there's different levels of uh acne, right? There's hormonal acne, there's uh environmental acne, there's just like what happened to my skin today acne. Right, right, right, right. But if you use acids or retinol or retinelles or retinates, and you're in a big cystic acne journey, that means you it's under your skin, it's painful. You go to a dermatologist and you go, hey, what is the best treatment for my skin? And that doesn't mean ingesting steroids, that doesn't mean taking something like Accutane, even though that's really easy. Accutane, once it's like um, it's like a pause button for acne. So what that means is while you're on it, your skin can be clearer, it might be dry. The second you stop it, it all comes back. Acne is just if your skin is freaking out, what makes it freak out? What time of the month is it freaking out? What am I doing that's making my skin freak out? And listen to your skin because your skin's talking to you. Pimples can all be removed. Cystic acne can all the cycle can stop by going on the right regime by understanding your triggers and where the acne is forming. Like quite often, for example, if it's just on your chin, it's hormonoacne. But then someone will say, But I just got my hormones in check and I'm not on my period. I wonder why it's happening. I go, Do you sit on your hand like this? And they say, Yeah, I always put my hand on my chin. I'm like, Do you know how filthy your hand is? You know, when was the last time you cleaned your phone?

unknown 23:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:37

Sitting right here, right? No doubt. And it's almost as soon as you say that, people go, Oh my god, I don't even recognize I'm doing it.

SPEAKER_04 23:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:46

So it's understanding what your acne is responding to. And then once you understand the triggers, once you understand what's happening, it's easy to start treating versus Responding. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 24:02

And I think a lot of people, like you said, don't think about the things they're doing with their face. I'm someone who cares about skincare. So I'm the type of person who changes their pillowcase like every other day and like never never sits with my hands on my face. But I have an eye mask and I wash it very frequently. And some people don't think about that. And it's like, why am I breaking out where my eye mask is? My husband went on a fishing trip and he wore a hat for like four days straight that he did not clean. And he came back with a band of acne across his forehead. And he's like, I don't know what happened. I'm like, I know what happened. It's just that friction, the contact there. Um, so I love that you address that. Just those little things like where you're constantly having contact with your face. Um, and you briefly mentioned retinols, right? Which is a whole topic. And I think it's some people know a lot about it and some people know very little. Would you mind explaining kind of what a retinol does and then maybe how people should go about understanding if they should or shouldn't use it?

SPEAKER_01 25:01

So everyone should use a retinol. Every single person on the face of the planet doesn't mean you use the the same level, meaning the same percentages. So, for example, if you were to walk into a dermatologist's office and you're like, I'm here for the retinol treatment, they go and they bring out all their vials. Right. And you see all these vials and you're like, what are these? They go, Well, this is two percent, this is three percent, this is five percent, this is ten percent, and goes all the way up to eighty percent. You're like, wow. Wow. And they go, What are you starting with? They're like, Oh, 100%, we're starting with 2%. And this will make you freak out for your skin, right? But it's a building of a tolerance that goes up. Now, when people turn around and they go, Oh, I got retinol on my product, it goes, did you get retinol palmate? Did you get retin A? Did you get retinol? Like those little tiny letters change it. And retin A is one you need a prescription for. It's a higher dose that you get from a dermatologist or your doctor's office or whoever is treating your skin. But it's not something that you can just walk across the count and get, if this makes sense. Because it is something that you have to use with good awareness. Um, I think the easiest way to explain it is if you use a retinal that's too harsh, it's almost like getting a laser treatment that's too harsh for your skin. It genuinely, like a peeling of an onion, will take off layers of your skin to let the brand new skin from the uh below the surface depth come to uh come to meet everyone, you know. So for example, most people the way I can also say it is people will use it a lot specifically with melasma or sun damage or hypopigmentation in a spotting treatment because you know in that way. It's my pop, if you can hear my apologies. Um and he he uh wants to come into the interview, but he uh but retinals are not for the faint of heart. I wouldn't recommend a retinal being the first aspect that someone goes to put on their skin. I would recommend someone learning about their skin, as mentioned, what kind of skin type they have, how many products they like to use, what consistency of products will they use, and then figure out the right time to add in a retinal because not all retinals are created equal. Some retinals can lead to photosensitivity, which means you can't go into the sun, things like that. Certain retinals you can only use during in the evening, but it's about making sure what's good for you. And then, for example, if you're older, 40 plus, and you have the ability to get trepan, like brilliant, phenomenal. That's just a little pea size. And I when I say a pea size, I mean a literal p size for your entire face and neck. And that should also tell you something.

SPEAKER_00 27:53

Yeah, I feel like people overuse products absolutely, and that can be damaging. Um, okay, so aging, right? And you've mentioned that as well. And that's something that a lot of people, obviously, women specifically, but men as well, we worry about being visible on our face. So there's no shame in that, right? And I feel like we're kind of talking about that again as we're seeing more actresses kind of age naturally. But what products should women, let's focus on women here, um, should they be interested in looking for if it if they're trying to avoid the more common looks of aging. So maybe wrinkles and things like that. And I know retinol will be a big one there, but what other products?

SPEAKER_01 28:32

Retinol's your gold standard, but like let's turn that question on its head. Because this is what we do and what we've been doing for 80 years, is we've helped to change the narrative around aging. Um, all those wrinkles and crinkles are attached to a moment in a memory. You smile and you get cross feet because you're moving your face. Your face is a muscle, right? So if you're always frowning, you're gonna get those deep number 11s. If you're always looking surprised, you're always gonna get those. So how you move your face also is what determines how deep set your wrinkles and crinkles can be. So, for example, if you're always bending your neck because you're always on a smartphone, you're gonna get deep lines across your neck. So the concept of what can I add to stop aging is not sort of the right concept. The right concept is how can I look in the mirror and love what I see? And what does that mean for me? And is it things that I don't love? Is it the wrinkles and crinkles? Is it the crow's feet? Is it the discoloration? Because wrinkles and crinkles make up 3% of the aging process. 97 other 97% is breakdown of elasticity, lack of uh radiance, breakdown of firmness, breakdown of um a hydration in your skin. And I'll say, like, if you have a cold, for example, if you have a sickness, if you have the flu, you get sallow, you get run down. There's something about you, you're like, oh, you don't look well, right? And as soon as you're healthy, everything's circulation and like you're flush again. So we always say the opposite of aging is not being able to age at all. So if you're complaining about aging, what's the opposite? You didn't get to complain, which means you're not here to live it, right? Right. So if you're looking at what can I do for my skin, get products that you're going to consistently use for your skin. I always will say add in a retinal, add in an AHA or a BHA or a PHA, just because it's a nice What are those? Polyhydroxic acids, PHAs, BHA, beta hydroxy acids, AHA, alpha hydroxy acids. So for example, salicylic acid, glycolic acid, citric acid, these are all different types of acids, right? And they all do different things. Glycolic acid is a natural derivative of sugar cane. Um, so it's a great exfoliator. Uh it doesn't wind up on your hips. So, for example, if someone's pregnant and they have concerns about wrinkles or crinkles or melasma or aging or acne, you use a glycolic acid because it's safe to use during pregnancy versus a retinal, which might be difficult for your skin and difficult for the fetus because your skin is the largest organ and it absorbs and you don't really know where things are going. But so it's the products you're going to use consistently and knowing that if you change up your skincare routine, it's also great for your skin as well, depending on the season. So, what I mean by that is your skin can become plateaued, your skin can become very used to something, and the ingredients don't work the same way. So it's not like it shocks your skin being like, oh, what's that?

SPEAKER_00 34:01

Right. You know? Interesting. It's like workouts. You gotta constantly change it up so that your body can adapt differently. It's the same thing with your skin. Exactly. That's interesting. And thinking of aging is sunscreen. I've heard that's like the number one thing that you should be using every single day for your skincare. Is that true?

SPEAKER_01 34:21

Yes and no. What do I mean by that? Yes, you should not be suntanning, you should not be faking baking, you should not be in the sun because your skin is like chicken. So it starts off one color, and when you become tan, you're like, ooh, it's so nice. You're also cooking your piece of chicken, right? So when you think about it this way, you're like, oh, I just cooked my skin. What does that look like, right? When the grill marks are gonna come out. Look at those little like hypopigmentation marks. When did that happen? Because you cooked your skin, it's a piece of chicken. I think sun awareness is very important, and that can look very different to a lot of people. So sunscreen, I'm back to the top of the hour, uh, is made with a DIN number, drug identification number. And drug identification numbers are really, really expensive to get, and they're per SKU. So if you have a manufacturing plant, it's not like you get a DIN number and you can put it on anything. It's like this product in my hand has a DIN number, this other product has a different DIN number. Each one of them can be $20,000, $25,000 each, and your facility has to match up with it. So there is one company that comes to mind that makes, I would say, 60% of North America's SPF. And you go over to them and you say, This is what I want it to feel like. And you open up the book and you bind her and you go, that's the one I want. And you put your name on it. So this concept of, oh, if something has to have a drug identification number, how safe is that for my skin? Right. Then there is NPNs, natural product health number. And NPNs are different types of sun blockers, zinc oxide, titanium zinc oxide, for example. That's a very physical blocker of your skin. And a lot of natural product health products have those types of I'd say sunscreen without being able to call it a sunscreen, sun deterrent. But for example, all your makeup, if you wear makeup, foundation, cover sticks, that all has titanium dioxide. So people have their own version of sunscreen already built in. I think if people are going to use sunscreen, use it on the very, and this is always controversial to people, which I love. It's the last step. It's not the first step, it's the last step in your beauty routine because you want the good ingredients to go into your skin, and then you want to sort of put a seal on your skin to block the environmental damage, to block the UVAs, the UVBs. I think it's important that people know that the sun damage comes in places that are very unexpected. And your car is the biggest place because of all the windows. It blocks UVAs, but doesn't block UVBs. So people on the driver's half of their face or their hands will get it. I love UPF clothing. Um I love it's a utility prevention functional fabric, which allow like for your hats, for your clothes, for things like that to not allow it in. Because a lot of people only put sunscreen on their face, maybe their neck. And they'll only think about the rest of their body when they're lying at the beach or at the pool. So that doesn't make sense to me either. So I think if you're a sunscreener, you should do it all the time. I really think as long as you're consistent with it. And but with that, make sure you're having a really great cleanser at the end of the day. Gotcha. So that's what I say.

SPEAKER_00 37:58

Yeah, no, I like that. And I like how you explain that it literally is just a layer we're putting on our face that we found through trial and error keeps the sun from damaging it more. It's something to think about in that perspective. Um, something I wanted to talk about with you because I experienced this was a skin barrier issue, which I mentioned earlier. Um, I had been destroying my skin barrier for so long that I thought I had oily skin, was treating my skin as such, and that just caused further issues. And I know a lot of women probably out there have the same problem, and they're using things like salicylic acid only or really strong face cleansers and exfoliators every single day, and they're just tearing their skin down thinking that it's helping. Um, what are some signs someone might have a damaged skin barrier? And how can they go about what kind of products could they start using to address it?

SPEAKER_01 38:50

So a really easy one is the wind hurts my face. Like you go outside, you're like, oh, okay, that's a little spicier than I wanted to. Why is that? And it's because you're stripping your skin. Another one is easy. Take your fingers and you just drag them across your skin. And if you feel ridges, you have dehydrated skin. And that's usually also a breakdown of barrier as well, because uh, and moisture is being evaporated from your skin. I think it's really one of those things that I think women have to lean more into their self-awareness. Women are exceptionally self-aware of everything, of all of our good, which we might not compliment ourselves so much on our good, but we're very well aware of our bad. We're very well aware when we don't look good in an outfit or we have a breakout, or this this is accentuating something in a positive way. We know so much about our skin, but we don't have the confidence to listen to our skin. So we're always looking at the person next to us, or this famous person just came out with their skincare line, and oh my god, look at their skin. And it goes, okay, have you seen their skin up close with no makeup, with no filters, with no with no touch-ups? And is that the skin you're looking for? Because quite often we're looking at outside versus inside, and what I mean by inside is what do I want for my skin? Not well, my mother had dark circles, I obviously have hereditary dark circles. Not really such a thing as hereditary dark circles, it's just something that we feel that we have to live with. But when you start understanding what your skin responds to, or what is making your skin freak out, or what your skin is stripping, or how this product made my skin feel, all the dominoes start to fall down. But a lot of people turn around and they go, Oh, I need like 3,600 products, because that's that's that's what they're telling me now. Korean beauty, I need 30 steps. When really it's because Asian skin is very different than North America's skin, just based on the climate, just based on the oil, just based on the acne breakouts that are happening over there. So it's very different in terms of the configuration of your skin. So people always say to me, Well, what do I do? How many products do I have how should I use? What's going to make me look my best? I go, how many products are you willing to use? How many products every single day are you willing to use? Someone might say two. I go, Great. And you're just gonna use two. And you're gonna make sure that one of those products is a great cleanser, not a wipe. If you are using a wipe, we have a problem because the wipe does nothing, it doesn't wipe anything away, it smears it around. So you need a great cleanser and you need a great hydrator. So what does that hydrator look like to you? If someone goes, I have all the time in the world, I love 13 products. Let's go through the 13 products of what that means for you. It's building your skin's diet, and it's building your skin's diet, not based on the dream and the wish of I am a size 32 waist, but I want to be a size 21. It's what is my skin now and who am I? What am I able and willing to do? Because the habit, the habitual use of skincare every single day is what's going to help your skin. Not I'm gonna start it and stop, start it and stop, start it and stop.

SPEAKER_00 42:30

And I feel like people who are consistent with their skincare routine, you can usually tell when someone takes care of their skin or they doesn't take care of. Well, however, there are the exceptions where it's just like they just always look like they take care of their skin, but they they don't do that much.

SPEAKER_01 42:44

But that's usually men. Yeah, people say that because their skin is thicker than women's skin.

SPEAKER_00 42:50

Right, right. That's so true. Um, my husband is one of those people, actually.

SPEAKER_01 42:54

Um, but he's like, I put shoe polish on my face and some soap, and it's great. I know exactly.

SPEAKER_00 42:59

He uses like body wash that I like dove body wash on his skin and it looks great. And it's like me angry. My sister actually was one of those people for a long time. She'd use like hand soap or whatever was in the shower just to quick rinse her face. And now she can't do that anymore. But for a while, it really irritated me.

SPEAKER_01 43:17

Because the the ecosystem of the skin is everybody's ecosystem, everybody's microbiome is very different than someone else's.

SPEAKER_00 43:26

For sure. Something I wanted to ask you about too, because it's blowing up right now, is beef tallow. And your thoughts on that. And I know it is packed with vitamins, and we could talk about vitamins too, right? Like vitamin C is talked about a lot. Um, but what about beef tallow? What's your take on that?

SPEAKER_01 43:43

Beef fat. That's that's what it is. Now, the original soap is animal fat and ash. That's was the original soap. And so beef tallow is a great cleanser as long as as long as it's like sort of packaged with other how do I say it? It packaged with other actives, but it is greasy, you know, but it's not bad. A lot of people put it on their skin as a moisturizer, too. Because it works as a it bond because it exactly. Okay, I'm like stumbling over my words. Yes, you can't, because you can, because it binds and it binds to your skin because it's a fat and it doesn't let anything else penetrate it. So kind of like Vaseline, you put it on, it's a barrier, nothing else is getting in. So everything that you're putting on your skin, it just sinks in. So beef tallow, for example, is great, I would say, phenomenal more in the evening than it is during the day, right? But if you have someone who breaks out of both, that will suffocate your skin. And your skin will break out more because your your pores, when people go, Oh, I have such large pores, it's not because your skin is oily that you have large pores. Your skin is uh your pores are big because they're stretching to breathe. Wow. Yeah. So your sky's pores are your skin's filter. That's how it breathes and allows things to come in and come out, right? So when you have large pores, it's because they're suffocating and so they're stretching to get oxygen.

SPEAKER_00 45:12

So people with large pores are probably clogging their skin too much. Clogging or blocking. Interesting. Okay. And vitamin C, is that an essential thing? Is that one of those things where if someone was willing to have 10 steps, they should include it? Is it essential, more essential than that? What's your take?

SPEAKER_01 45:30

Vitamin C is phenomenal. If vitamin C is the only natural brightener of your skin, it's also the only natural producer of collagen in your skin. And what's fun is if you do use a daily SVF, it will boost the efficacy of your SVF every day. It will make it stronger. Okay. However, not all vitamin C's are created equal, very similar to each ingredient, yes. So there are stabilized molecules of vitamin C, which means they won't oxidize in the bottle and they'll do a slower time release formulation on your skin, such as something called THD as a David. Um, it's the most stabilized, strongest version of vitamin C that doesn't sort of irritate your skin because a lot of sorbic acids, which are vitamin C, can irritate your skin. People go, well, I'm using vitamin C, but it's making me sensitive. Why is that? Because vitamin C isn't just vitamin C, it's not just like, oh, you get it from an orange, and there it is. There are different levels of it. Vitamin C is phenomenal. It it helps to hydrate, it helps to brighten, it helps to nourish, it helps to strengthen. I mean, think about it. When the saying is uh an apple day keeps the doctor away. Vitamin C is really healthy for you. But if it's not in an opaque bottle, meaning if it's not in a bottle, you can't uh if you can see through the bottle, run away from it. It's it's not stable vitamin C and it's going to oxidize in the bottle, and that's silly for you. But you want a time release formulation for your skin so that the burst of vitamin C is the freshest on your skin. So, for example, when you squeeze orange juice, freshly squeezed orange juice, in 30 minutes, 50% of that potency is gone. Wow. So the faster you get it on your skin, the better it is. And quite often, vitamin C is a beautiful pairing with retinol, retinol and night, vitamin C during the day.

SPEAKER_00 47:23

Got it. Okay. I would like to hear your skincare routine because as someone who works in that industry, I feel like we'd all love to hear. And also, um, why don't you go ahead and if you want to do your skincare routine, it probably is a longer one. Um, but also your recommended like condensed version for people who are like, I can only do three things.

SPEAKER_01 47:46

Um I am 100% a brand snob and will only use Elizabeth Grant skincare. I will say no ifs, ands, or buts about it. I know who's making it. That leading RD chemist, our head of chemistry, our head of formulations is a woman over the age of 50. I love it, you know. So I will say that. Do you have to use my range? No. Will it be brilliant? I say yes. But I would always say you can use two products in whatever my product range is and slip it into your routine and you. Get the best of the best. You don't have to check out what you're using. What I use is I will use, and I'm like looking around because I'm like in my studio. And so like I'm just kind of like, do I just run and get all the products? I don't use that many products. And I know that sounds nuts because you go, Well, so many people can use five or 14 or 12. I will consistently, I love a cocktail. That means we cocktail our serums, not alcoholic. Um, so you take a drop of each serum and you put it together. So I'll use two serums in the morning, 100% the essence of trism, every single morning and every single night, and then I'll mix it. And I'll either mix it with a ceramide booster or I'll mix it with a hyaluron acid. I'll mix it with um we have a different product. It's called the DNA booster, which is a different microbiome product. But I like to mix the essence with an active, makes me very happy to do it. So whatever the active is, de jure. Do I want vitamin C today? Sure, I'll use vitamin C. But usually it's hyaluron, essence of trislam, or ceramide booster. So one essence in one of those two. Then I will use a face cream. And the face cream today is the hyaluron face cream because I I love it so much. I love moisture for my skin. I am someone who does have dehydrated skin, and I don't have dehydrated skin just in the winter. I've dehydrate skin 365 days a year. So I like to have that saturation of a lightweight hydration without it being too heavy. And that's essentially every morning and every night. And I'll use a cream cleanser because cream cleanser for me adds more levels of hydration to your skin. If you've ever had a the blessing of going for a facial, 50% of the time is they're cleaning your skin, but not stripping, they're cleaning it with a cream, always to put it in, to put it in a so any given day I'll have two to three serums in the morning, two to three serums in the evening, one face cream in the morning, one face cream in the evening, one cleanser, the same cleanser in the morning and night. But the one thing I'll add at night is my night one to concentrate, which is glycolic acid-based. And it's my little vacuum of skincare. Sucks out the dirt, the debris, and just feels great. So I like to keep it as simple as I can. And that's just that's just me. Yeah. Now, other people, if you wanted more simple than three products in the morning, four products in the morning, like I said, if you're someone who's gonna say, and I want you to be honest with it, I'm only going to clean my skin once a day. Then clean it at night before you go to bed. Clean the dirt off, clean the day off. If you're someone who only showers in the morning, cleanse your skin at night, followed by your your routine. I would 100% recommend glycolic acid. I would 100% recommend the serum. I would 100% cream at night. Three steps. If you can do three steps, you're good to go. If you can do two steps in the morning, do two steps in the morning. If you're using an oil, use it just before your sunscreen. Last step. Because oil and water, they don't go well. So if you put an oil on your skin first, because a lot of people put facial oils on, you've now blocked all the ability for your creams and serums to go into your skin. And that's just silly. But I do love a facial oil. It's just nice. What's in a facial oil? So a facial oil can be macadamia nut oil, it could be marula oil, it can be squalene oil. Um, and these are not oils that make you break out, they're not oily oils, they're like a dry oil. So you place it on, and it's just a different molecule. So a different treatment to st uh to not let your skin evaporate. Because as soon as you're in any environment, whether you're air conditioning, heating, outside, cotton of a pillowcase, everything, all the moisture is being sucked out of your skin. Suck, suck, suck, suck. So, what an oil does is it blocks that from happening.

unknown 52:35

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_01 52:35

And your skin produces oil. So it's a nice sister to what's already happening with your skin. Gotcha.

SPEAKER_00 52:46

Okay, so thinking about that, like protecting from the things of the day, what are some habits people can implement into their lifestyle that's good for their skin? Whether it's wearing, you know, putting shades up in your car or like things that you do or would recommend people do.

SPEAKER_01 53:03

Oh, people my husband would laugh at me. My husband does laugh. Driving gloves. Okay. Third sign of aging. Uh, your neck when you're on your phone, stop crinkling it down. Look at it up. When you're if your eyes are tired, don't rub your eyes. You're gonna prolong break down your ski, I think, your skin. Wear a wonderful, beautiful hat, everyone. Lean into hats and not just baseball caps. Lean into the fedora, lean into the white brim, lean into your era of like the the you're in the car, the coast of Italy, and the hat flies away. Lean into it. And I always remember this last summer. I saw the other side of a park. And my friend's son looked at his dad and said, That's that's my friend's mom. She always wears a cowboy hat. He's like, No, it's not. And he walks up, he's like, Oh my god, it is you. I'm like, Yeah, he's like, My son recognized it was you because of your hat. I will 100% wear a large bring hat all the time. And your sunglasses don't just buy cheapy cheapy sunglasses, even though the majority of sunglasses, and again, sorry to say it. 70 to 80 percent of the world's sunglasses are made by one factory and then repackaged. Wonderful, scary. Isn't it? Um, but your eyes can get sun damaged as well. Your eyes can get uh, I'm not gonna call it skin cancer, but you can get it from UV damage from your eye in your eyes. So make sure your eyes are protected because also if you're using cheap sunglasses and you're squinting, you're just going to over-accentuate. And just watch how you move your face. Like my face tells, like, you know, that whole running meme that it's like your face is telling you what your mind is thinking. That's my face. My face is always you can always look at me and know exactly what I'm thinking, but just try to like not frown, not squint, not tense, not things like that. And just know anything you're doing to uh manage your skin, remember how you're treating your skin, how you're handling your skin, how you're touching your skin. And I think it's so easy to do. And sun, son, just stop it. Stop cooking your skin like a piece of chicken. Just stop it. You know, enjoy the vitamin D, wear some long-sleeve linen, walk a little slower. I love it. You know, it's okay to be hot. I live in Canada, it's bloody cold all the time. It was snowing this morning, and we're like, it's enough.

SPEAKER_00 55:39

You know, I'm in Minnesota, so I'm not I'm up there.

SPEAKER_01 55:43

Okay, so I used to go to Minnesota every month for 10 years. Oh, wow, why? Because uh there was a channel there, and I would go on every month in Aden Prairie, Minnesota. Oh, I'm not far from there. Yeah, and I would and I would just go there once a month and I'd go on TV, and that's uh my wonderful skincare. And uh I know Minnesota real well. And I know how cold it is that y'all wouldn't use um salt, you would use sand because the salt would melt at a flash point and you can get black ice.

SPEAKER_00 56:16

I'm aware. Correct. I feel like the one benefit of these regions is it is colder, so a lot of months were inside, and we protect our skin more, so we do have so you protect this you protect your skin from sun damage, but you don't protect your skin from environmental damage or free radical damage or all of the stuff you don't see, and everyone takes for granted on that way. Correct. That's correct. And that actually makes me think about dry environments. So people who don't use a humidifier and things like that. Would you recommend people start doing that to keep their the air moist, or what would you recommend?

SPEAKER_01 56:52

Okay, so I recommend do I recommend a humidifier? I do, but not all humidifiers, because humidifiers actually grow bacteria and you don't really want them. And so unless you're really like weird about cleaning them, don't. There is one humidifier, and I don't work with them, but I am obsessed with them. It's called CarePod. It's designed by a doctor, it's um stainless steel, and you can actually put it in the dishwasher, so like no bacteria. So I'm a fan of that, but I love something called burping your house. And it's uh it's a it's something that comes from Germany, um, and essentially in the transitional season, sort of from winter into spring, even it doesn't matter how cold it is outside, you open up all the windows and all the doors to your house, and you burp your house, yeah, and you get all the stagnant dirt and debris and bacteria out.

SPEAKER_00 57:53

Yes, yeah. My mom does that. She she grew up. My grandma's very German, and she she's literally from Germany, and she that was something she grew up doing in Germany, and so now, like she and then my mom grew up doing it, and so she kind of taught me just open the windows, get the get the air like circulated.

SPEAKER_01 58:13

Yeah, everything that is moving is alive. So your skin cells, your cells in your body, the circulation, the blood circulation, it's moving, it's alive, it's healthy. When things are stuck, that's when things break down. So I do I recommend a humidifier? Yes, but do I recommend having a bowl of water next to your side of bed that acts in a weird way like a humidifier? Yeah, because it adds moisture back into your skin.

SPEAKER_00 58:44

Ah, simple, easy way to not have to buy one. Okay. Um, and to wrap it up, um, I'd love to kind of hear, Margot, your advice for people who care about skincare. If you have to give one piece of advice and they said, I really care about skincare, what should I know? What would you say?

SPEAKER_01 59:03

It's a great question. It also just stumped me. Very rare am I lost for words? I think probably so much to say. There's so much to say, but I think it's a it's a layered question because when people say I care about skincare, I think my first question is why? What do you care about skincare about? Is it I want to look good? Is it I want to not look old? Is it I want to age gracefully? What is the reason you care about it? Is it because I'm my mother has uh skin cancer and I never want it? Like everybody has a different story of why they care about it. And I think if you're caring about it for whatever reason, I hope it's more positive than negative. So if you're your mother had skin cancer, I hope you're not acting out of a place of fear, but you're acting out of a place of knowledge. If you're someone who goes, I don't want to look old, I think you have to re-in re-challenge yourself on that statement because there are a lot of people who wish they were here to grow older.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:07

And I think if someone's making you feel bad about how you look, whether you're not tall enough, not small enough, not bright enough, not blonde enough, not brunette enough, not size two, not whatever you're not feeling good enough about, walk away from them. Because ultimately you were the most spectacular person. Exactly how you are. Can we all improve? Of course. Can we all do a lot worse? Of course. But can we all lean into a bit more forgiveness? A hundred percent. So I think women have to be, if you're into skincare and you love skincare, I love that for you. I just think you have to understand there's no such thing as a quick fix. A lot of people go, oh, I'll just get a I'll just fix that later. And sometimes you can the quick fix always comes with challenges. Like someone goes, Oh, I'll just get a facelift. Facelifts only last 10 years. So you have to keep getting them, keep getting them. If someone's like, oh, I'll just get filler. There's the awfulness of hyaluronic filler that's being put into your skin that continuously absorbs water and changes your face shape. So I think if you love skincare, I love that for you. Love it for the purest of heart. Know that your skin's going to change, know that you're going to age, know that you're not going to look like you're in your 20s again. Maybe you might have the best skin of your life in perimenopause. Maybe you'll have the best skin of your life when you're 70. Maybe you had the best skin in your life when you're 32. But your skin's going to change. And you have the luxury at your fingertips right now that people are invested in changing with you.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:46

Yeah. Wow. Okay. You just inspired me a lot to reframe. This was amazing. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. I loved this chat today.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:55

I loved it as well. And I say thank you so much. And I just say one quick thing on that ending. If you've ever thought about getting a dermatologist, just go see one. I think it's great, whoever it is. I mean, just to even get a mole check. I mean, we are the skin doctors. However, if you were seeing a dermatologist for injections, for things like that, do your research about whatever your treatment is, whatever your treatment, whatever your ingredient, and learn about it as much as you can. Because someone who's performing something every day might be like, oh, it's not a big deal. But to you, it's the whole world, right? You have one skin, you have one face, you can't go to the grocery store and buy a new one.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:35

So it's so true. And especially today when we're putting things in our face more than ever in history. So I really appreciate you speaking to that. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:45

Of course. Emily, this has been a delight to everyone who's listening. Thank you so much. And uh, if you have any questions, I'm always here to answer them.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:53

For sure. For sure. Thank you, Marg.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:55

Thank you.