Ep 27 - The Truth About Neurodivergence in Midlife: ADHD, Masking, and Finding Yourself Again with Caroline Maguire

What if the way you’ve been navigating life… isn’t wrong — it’s just wired differently?

In this powerful episode of Midlife Audacity, I sit down with ADHD coach and author Friendship Skills for Neurodivergent Adults by Caroline Maguire to unpack what neurodivergence really looks like in midlife women.

We dive into the realities so many women are quietly experiencing:
 • Masking behaviors and the hidden exhaustion behind them
 • Why ADHD and neurodivergence often go undiagnosed in women
 • The cycle of overthinking, rumination, and social anxiety
 • How identity gets shaped around coping… not truth
 • And what it actually takes to reconnect with your authentic self

Caroline brings both professional expertise and lived experience, offering practical, real-life strategies (just like she does in her book) to help you better understand your brain and build skills that actually work in everyday life.

This is a real, honest conversation about what happens when you’ve spent decades trying to “get it right”… and suddenly realize there’s another way to live.

You’ll walk away with a deeper understanding of your patterns and how to begin shifting from survival mode into a more regulated, aligned, and empowered version of yourself.

If you’ve ever thought, “Why is this so hard for me?” — this episode will meet you right where you are.

✨ You’re not broken. You’re becoming aware.

🔗 Resources Mentioned in This Episode

• Learn more from Caroline: Caroline Maguire Official Website
• Support for ADHD in adults: ADDA (Attention Deficit Disorder Association)
• Support for children & adults: CHADD (Children and Adults with ADHD)
• Nervous system & self-regulation tools: Dr. Kate Truitt

Soulful Sunday Newsletter:  Each week, you’ll hear from me in a way that’s simple, intentional, and easy to stay connected to.

Book Study Seminars:  Soul School has opened up new room called, Book Study Seminars.  This room meets four times a year to read, study and unpack not only the words, but our lives, together.  Our summer theme is identity FLOW and we start May 7th. For four weeks, we’ll study together using, The Artist's Way by Julia Cameron, as our anchor text. Together, we will explore reconnecting to creativity, intuition, fun, movement, and authentic expression.  

Soul School: A curriculum for midlife women who are ready to remember their wisdom, protect their energy, project their power and come back into alignment. You don’t need fixing. You need to remember. Open for enrollment NOW.

Follow @the_conscious_coach_ 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hey, hey, welcome back to Midlife Audacity. I'm your host, Celeste Dona, teacher, writer, speaker, and guide for women who are ready to rise into their next chapter boldly, soulfully, and unapologetically. I am thrilled to have Caroline McGuire on my show today. She is the author of her new book, Friendship Skills for Neurodivergent Adults. She is an internationally recognized expert in social, emotional learning, ADHD coaching, and relationship development. She is the author of another award-winning book called Why Will No One Play With Me? I mean, that title right there just grabs me. And I'm excited to talk with her today because she also is a person who has experienced firsthand ADHD herself, dyslexia, and learning disabilities. And so when you experience it yourself and then you bring your own professional expertise to the table, it's like that combination, I just think is a really powerful tool to help others. And so welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_01 1:17

Thank you so much for having me. That was a great introduction.

SPEAKER_00 1:22

Well, you know, it's funny because when we were chatting earlier before we hit the record button, I was saying how I too could relate to so much of your bio because I um I struggled in school. You know, I was diagnosed with a learning disability back in third grade. Um, it was primarily with reading, but also there was some components with math. And I mean, back in the 80s, I'm not sure that they really had all of the tools that we have today to officially diagnose me with dyslexia, but definitely the more that I have taught, because I'm a teacher, um, the more that I've taught, the more that I've read, the more that I've experienced in my life, pretty sure that I'm dyslexic. Um, and now as a parent of three kids, two of whom also have ADHD, and a daughter who also battled with a lot of relationship issues when she was younger, I can kind of see this topic from both sides, both as the person dealing with them and then also as a parent trying to help navigate her children, you know, with this. And, you know, I think that it really impacts everyday life, you know. So I'm curious, like when someone is neurodivergent, and maybe not everyone in my audience even knows what that term is. So maybe this is a good opportunity to explain neurodivergent. What does that actually look like for a person in real life? Like from day to day, like their everyday life, what does that actually look like for them? And there's a whole spectrum, right?

SPEAKER_01 3:06

Yeah. So, and you know, who am I to be the person who define, defy, you know, narrows and defines neurodiversity, but I had to for the book. And so I defined it as um ADHD, autism, out EHD, you know, learning disabilities, OCD, anxiety. And part of that was that um I am qualified for those things, right? So I didn't, I never leave my lane. I don't believe in that. Um, and there are people who would include other things like uh bipolar disorder and stuff like that. But um, you know, when people talk about neurodiversity and when we talk about the community, that's generally what they mean. And um, and also, you know, anyone could pick up this book. I mean, really truthfully, anybody who's struggled socially and who's unsure of what's going on, it might relate to it. Um, and daily life-wise, you know, we have these sort of spectrum of traits, right? So, you know, really strong in some areas. I have learning disabilities like you. Um, I also have ADHD, but to be truthful, and I sometimes get, you know, controversy by saying this, but truthfully, um, my ADHD, there's so much information about how to manage. Um, and also I've been trained and things and I have a master's degree. I really struggle the most still with my learning disabilities because there really is no hack to help with that, right? It's more like I can't back a car uphill into a space. I just can't do it. I don't care if my car talks to me. It's just not something I can do. So, you know, I think there's a lot, you know, on a daily basis, a lot of times you're looking at people who are, you know, really brilliant in an area and then might struggle with self-awareness, struggle with organizing themselves, struggle with making friends, struggle with um, you know, so there's that contrast, right? Like you could build, you know, some folks, you can build anything, but you don't necessarily know that um when you when you're with people come off as as sort of um a little too um bossy, or maybe you're you're like super introverted and you know, not really able to have a conversation with folks and everything is sort of a little awkward, um, you know, or just absolutely um takes a long time to warm up, you know, and sometimes people aren't patient enough to let you warm up or to be the right environment, um, or maybe have a lot of sensory issues. Um, and a lot of us, uh, you know, your podcast is midlife. Um, you know, we grew up in the 80s and 90s and early 2000s, and we really didn't have um knowledge of our brains. And so, you know, we didn't really have a guide or help for this. There was no, I mean, think about this, Celeste. There was no Google. Yeah. Yeah. Really?

SPEAKER_00 6:05

I mean, we had like Britannica encyclopedias that someone came to my door and sold my parents on, and we had them stacked in our living room. But that was like as far as you got in terms of like research. And then you had to go to the library and like dig through like microfiche film in order to find like articles, you know, on a particular topic. So we didn't have access to nonstop information and the research that, you know, is available today. They're making, they're making headway in all different areas.

SPEAKER_01 6:38

Right. No, I mean, it really wasn't. And so for a lot of us too, I mean, there's probably people listening who say, you know, I think I may have a little ADHD or I think I may be on the spectrum, but it isn't something that that they had access to. And and also as a woman, a lot of times those characteristics um were masked because um, you know, we were told how to behave. And if you didn't behave, you got in trouble. And I don't know about you, but I never wanted to be in trouble. Yes. Um, so I, you know, I did my homework. Like a lot of ADHD people struggle with getting homework in. You're a teacher, you know. Yep. Um, I always did my homework because I I'm not saying I did the best, but I didn't want to be in trouble. Like, and I don't think my parents even cared, but I I just would never have wanted to be like thought of that way, you know. And so there's a lot, there's sort of a boolease there of different things that go on. And one of the sort of overarching things is for brain-based reasons, neurodivergent people often really struggle with making and keeping friends.

SPEAKER_00 7:44

Yeah, it makes sense. It makes sense because of that self-awareness piece, right?

SPEAKER_01 7:50

Yeah. And it's it's so hard because no one means not to be self-aware, right? No one means to say the wrong thing at the wrong time. Um, and I think we're growing so much in our understanding of that. And I talk a lot about it in the book and about the fact that like we have to end the shame cycle. It is what it is. And um, and now we're, you know, we know what we know and we're gonna build skills and move forward. But, you know, there is that like, how do I present? And and also just like some of my clients don't even think to respond to folks, or they don't realize that they're not really making conversation, or they're keeping um conversation at a very deep level and that it's off-putting to people because people don't really know, like, oh my God, we're into we're into this deep conversation and we just met each other. Um, and so that all goes back to that other piece um that's hard for for neurodivergent people, which is self-monitoring, right? Being aware of what you're doing in the moment. Um, and you know, I think we have to practice self-forgiveness, like it is a weakness, and we can learn from and we can learn how we show up and and how we want to be. We can choose now that we're older.

SPEAKER_00 9:05

Yeah. Yeah. And that's one of the things that I loved about your book was that you make it so easy to um use it as a guide, almost like a manual, where you could continually go back to it and have sections like marked and papers folded over. And you can use this as like a reference guide to yourself. Like in the moment, like, oh, I'm experiencing this. Let me go back. She said on page 37, try this. You know, you have these, like, you know, one thing you can try today sections, which I loved because those are such practical ways to implement. And I find that so many self-help books, and I've read many, many, many, um, will give you all of the information, but they don't necessarily give you the application and how to implement it into your life. And you do a great job of like meshing those two because there's a lot of information in here about, like you said, masking and adapting and you know, social cues and all of those things. But then also, well, here's one thing you can try today and see how that works out for you. And if it works, this is something you can put in your toolbox, you know, and continue to use. And that's so practical for people.

SPEAKER_01 10:32

Well, thank you. I really wanted us to be snackable and practical. You know, I learned a lot from from writing Why Will No and Play With Me for how, you know, it was and and using it all these years. And I also had more autonomy this time, right? I was a second book author, so I could kind of call the shots a little more. And I really wanted those. I'm very practical. Like as a person, I am, well, I'm a little bit of a lottie da girl and I love my makeup, but I I, other than the my slight obsession with hair products and makeup, I really am a very, very practical person. And it kind of annoys me when I read a self-help book because I like you read everything. I read every parenting book, right? And I'm like, okay, you just told me all the problems. Like, what do I do now? Right. Like, and you know, I just really wanted people, you know, to come home from a social situation and they start their post-event rumination and they're like, wait a minute, wait a minute, a minute, wait a minute. I read in a book how to stop this and like be able to go to that area and like see the strategies and actually practice them. Um, and I I did the one thing you can try today because, you know, this is a this is a hard thing for people, right? And it's hard to sometimes once again try to make friends after you've tried before. And I wanted something that could dip people's toe in the water. Like if you were like, I am not on board with like fully doing all the things in this book, but like I want to try something or I'll do some thinking exercises. And then maybe the next time you read the book, you do a little more, right? I wanted that opportunity for people because I know um another group that's part of neurodiversity is social anxiety. And I knew that folks sometimes like the thought of just all of the things that go into this is too much, but maybe we could have a little a little bite, right? A little dip your toe in the water.

SPEAKER_00 12:27

Yes. I think that I think that that's fabulous. I loved the way that it was laid out. It makes it very easy to find those sections and then to try that little bit and see if that works for you. And maybe today that's the only thing you can actually get your head around, right? And that's okay. And like you said, the next time it's like, oh, I can do that and one more thing she said that I can do. And then those start to build. And I'm always talking to my audience, and I talk about this with the women that I coach, habit stacking, you know, so you start very small, something that doesn't feel really overwhelming, and you get really good at putting that into something that becomes a habit. And then once that becomes a habit, stack one more thing now on top of that, and then stack something else. And before you know it, you have this whole routine. I'm a I'm a very structured routine person. So Me too. I am totally a routine person. It's ridiculous. So to me, it makes perfect sense, right? That like then you then you now have an established routine where you maybe have like three or four of these really good strategies stacked on top of each other. And before you know it, you have a morning routine that like sets your day off on the right foot. Or maybe you mentioned like ruminating, you have a three-stack habit of like, how do I stop the ruminating after like I just got into this social interaction with someone and it was really uncomfortable? How do I stop the brain from going over and over and over again and talking it out? I used to do that, by the way, a lot. I would always ruminate. And it wasn't until I got with my therapist and we talked a lot over why I was doing that and how I and how I could break that cycle. But I'm now very aware of when I do that. And it's it's interesting how many people actually do do that.

SPEAKER_01 14:24

Oh, yeah, absolutely. And and don't have words for it or don't know that they can stop it. And, you know, I'm a champion ruminator and I I definitely am so much better than I was 10, 20 years ago. Yeah. Um, and I really think um, you know, also my clients do something. I don't know if anybody listening will relate to this, but my clients will enter a session and say, I had the best time, Caroline. I went with someone, I did this, I did that, but then they ruin their ruminators. And so by the end of the session, they're like, it was a disaster. They don't like me at all. Yeah. And so you can change what was a pretty positive interaction or even just neutral. And then you can ruminate yourself into a story, as you know, that loops around and then just destroys anything positive from that event. And so again, I know that that this is who's reading the book, right? And so, and I've been there, and I want people to have strategies to end that misery because it really can end. And it's also being so hard on yourself about something that maybe nobody else even cared or noticed either, by the way. Oftentimes, right? Oftentimes, oftentimes. And so yeah, no, I think it's um, I mean, think about how that changes your life to not ruminate anymore or to ruminate less. It's it's life-changing.

SPEAKER_00 15:52

It was life-changing. I didn't realize how much time I actually spent doing that. And it wasn't until it was brought to my attention that I was like, wow. And then I started the first thing she taught me to do was to sort of notice that that was happening. Um, that was kind of life-changing for me. And I have to say, honestly, I don't, I don't not do it at all, but I definitely am much better. And I do do it, I realize, oh, here we go. You're going down that silly rabbit hole again. You know, let's stop.

SPEAKER_01 16:23

100%. I'm the same way. It's not that I don't do it anymore, but I definitely recognize it and I have strategies to change it and I can stop the cycle more now. And I also think I am less, I think just from a lot of work that I've done, I'm less affected by um then the opinion of others. Like there are people who have an opinion about something, but you know, I don't necessarily consider them a friend, and I don't necessarily need to care about their opinion. Right. Um, and so that, but that's a huge shift. That is not Caroline 1993, you know, in high school would not have done that. No, nor celeste. Nor Celeste. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 17:07

Yep, yep, yep. So let me ask you this: what does a diagnosis actually do for someone? Do you think that a diagnosis creates clarity? Or do you think that sometimes it can quietly become like a limitation and they like over-identify with it and it actually starts to define them?

SPEAKER_01 17:33

I think it becomes um an opportunity. I think that to understand your brain is to understand your life in certain cases, if you're autistic, if you have ADHD, um, and to understand what strategies apply to you and what might not work for your brain. And so I think of it like this going back to old game shows, right? You have door number one, two, and three. And if you have a diagnostic label, um, then you're able to say, you know, door number one, it does not apply to me. I'm door two and three. And that way you can find the right information, the right support, and the right strategies. I think there are people who let it define them. Um, I think there are people who enter victimhood, right? But I don't think that's the majority. The majority of people that I meet in this in this community are really just trying to figure out how they can have a happier life and thrive. Yes. You know, and and they're looking to figure out why am I this way and why do things that people say, you know, I should do not work, and to create those kind of habit stacking opportunities. Um and I think so, I think it it creates an opportunity to understand yourself in a way that, you know, and I also think like if you just kind of know, um, you're not as likely to change your approach to life. And I think the fact is that the environment has a profound, I mean, this isn't just a Caroline McGuire idea, this is like an actual studied idea, um, a profound impact on us. And so I think that by knowing and having that diagnosis, you can actually like change uh the water you're swimming in. And I think it makes all the difference.

SPEAKER_00 19:27

Yeah, I think that that's a great point. And, you know, just because this comes up a lot, because I'm in education and I work with a lot of young kids, and I've had three children of my own. How much do you think like social media now plays a part in children, even adults, self-diagnosing where they see something, maybe they see a funny reel. As an adult, they'd see a real, they'd be like, oh my God, that's me. I must have ADHD. Or as a child, teenager, let's say, who goes online, sees a couple of videos on TikTok about some autistic behaviors, takes an online self-diagnostic test, and then automatically starts to say, I'm ex or I have ex. Where do you think that gets sort of messy? Or is that helpful, not helpful? I have so many like things about that that I'm just not sure.

SPEAKER_01 20:34

I think it plays a huge role, right? I think the internet plays a huge role. I think that people, exactly as you described, they see themselves in behavior in posts, and then it affects, you know, they're like, oh, this is me. And I'm fine with, you know, take a take a test online and see, but I hope people go further because some of this stuff is complicated. You know, I just had a a client who was telling me about um, you know, they've they've now been diagnosed with OCD. And so they have, you know, they have um other diagnoses, but now they know that they are OCD. Well, just by taking an ADHD test or uh, you know, an autism test online, they would never have found out the OCD. The OCD is the root of so many of their life struggles and misery, frankly, right? Like that they are feeling so unhappy. And now they can get the strategies and the help that they're gonna need versus, you know, if we're just online taking a test and we don't really get into like, well, you know, it's not actually this because it's incredibly complicated to diagnose, right? Yeah. So I I am but I do think that this explosion of diagnosis is not a Trend. And I don't think that it's a bad thing. I think that we all have that uncle or aunt or grandparent or friend of the family, you know, who's a boomer or who's a World War II generation, who, you know, if we really know about autism, we really know about ADHD or dyslexia, they were that, right? Like in my family, there are people who dropped out of high school, even though I know I knew them, they were brilliant. But they dropped out of high school because they had dyslexia and it was untreated. Do you know what I mean? So I think we have those people in our past, and we just, you know, uh, my great-grandfather left Ireland and basically wrote my great-grandmother and said, P.S. I'm in London now, I'm on my way to America, I'm done with Ireland. I mean, can you hear of a more impulsive story, right? Like, P.S. I've left everything and like I'll be coming for you later. Like, I and we found when my parents sold their um, you know, sort of like house, house and moved into a condominium a few years ago. Um, we found these this information um that I had never seen. And I was like, I have never read a more impulsive thing. Mic drop, diagnosis to the whole place. Right. Yes. So I mean, I think we had those people, and I think they just unfortunately didn't have answers.

SPEAKER_00 23:28

Absolutely. I mean, you would say, Oh, I have my quirky aunt or whatever, but there was, you know, there was always that like, you knew something, but we never really knew what that was. And they didn't either. You know, they didn't either. And so that kind of brings me to a couple of questions. It looks different. A lot of neurodivergent behaviors and um diagnoses look different between males and females. And a lot of them do, and this is why it gets complicated. This is why it's more than just, oh, I identify with that TikToker. It's it's intricate because a lot of these overlap. So for my daughter, I know that she is officially diagnosed with ADHD. She also has anxiety. There probably is some of that spectrum disorder going on. However, ADHD in girls has a lot of overlapping qualities of autism. So there's like that, there's like a lot of that overlap. So it's important to really, I think, meet with someone who's qualified to talk through the different areas and really get the the strategies that are gonna work best for that individual. So how does it present, you know, like ADHD, how does that present typically in a boy versus a girl?

SPEAKER_01 25:01

Yeah, so ADHD in a girl can often be very much what we call masked. So masked meaning um that girls um might understand social norms, they might understand expectations. And societally, we expect girls to, you know, sit in their seats, turn in their homework, uh, be polite. And so they would suppress, you know, those hyperactive traits, for instance, um, at a great mental health cost, by the way. There's a tremendous mental health cost to this. And I totally did this, by the way. Um I'm actually pretty hyperactive, but um, you know, I never got in trouble. I never had problems. Um, I did get an I did get a lot of feedback about fidgeting and moving around too much in my seat, but I I never had official trouble. And um, you know, girls can often be um misdiagnosed as just anxious, that anxiety is the root of everything because they're compensating for the fact that they are trying to plan and it is hard for them, and they're having struggles organizing and they're having struggles uh, you know, managing the dynamics that are going on and keeping up with things because of executive function, which is the management system of the brain's weakness in ADHD, but it doesn't show up necessarily as purely ADHD. It shows up as anxiety first, um, or a sleep disorder, or unfortunately an eating disorder. Um, and then um you know we find out later. Well, it was the it was that inability to get things done and it was that suppressing of things that was really causing the anxiety. In boys, I mean, there are uh boys who are inattentive, meaning they are um, you know, more dreamy, they're sort of lost in their own thoughts. Um so I don't want to overlook that. But in boys, stereotypically they are more likely to get in trouble, they're more likely to, you know, call out and blurt, they're more likely to um be immature, and that shows up in the classroom in that their humor is much more immature than the other kids, which you know causes social problems because people are like, why are you laughing at that joke? Or why are you using, you know, potty language in you know, you're 12, that's a nine-year-old boy thing. Um, and so their outward behaviors are more stereotypically ADHD and therefore get detected more easily. Um, because honestly, in the school systems, a lot of times the reason you get detected is because you cause problems, right? You can't meet expectations. Right. Um, and so I I do think that there is a swell of understanding of girls in ADHD that's happening. And I think it's very good because um I think that a lot of girls are really suffering and they just nobody really realizes how much they're they're running on the treadmill to hold things together.

SPEAKER_00 28:19

Yes, yes, and they tend to present, um, they're very quiet in class, so they can slide right under the radar if you're not really paying attention to that factor, you know? And a lot of times I find that it's the girls that are quiet in class that have masked their behavior, but underneath, like if you peel back the layers of that onion, their mind is going a million miles a minute because they are trying so hard to figure everything out and plan and adjust and and like okay, if I have to do this and I have to do that, and then what's happening here, and then over there, and then but but outwardly, right? Like it's like a glazed over look, but inside it's like they're running on a treadmill.

SPEAKER_01 29:16

Yeah, and that cognitive hyperactivity is very much a characteristic of women with ADHD, and I completely resemble that remark. Like I remember having entire half days of class where I didn't, I didn't get recognized that I was in outer space. I didn't hear a word the teacher said. Yeah. But I sat there in my little like outfit, and you know, my hands were in my lap and I didn't make any disruption. And so no one really got that. Like, I didn't hear that lesson at all. Right. Like I was totally unaware of what was going on. I remember missing entire chunks of time and sort of what I would call waking up. I would like say, Oh, I woke up and like I would tell my parents, like, I have to someone reteach me that math or whatever, because I missed it. And then I woke up and I realized, like, oh, I've been in outer space for like this entire lesson. And, you know, my parents didn't know anything. So they were just like, okay, we'll reteach you the math. You know, like they didn't know that this was sort of a strange thing. Yeah. Um, and and I think many parents just don't have the knowledge to help their kids. And so they um they begin to support their child in whatever way they can. But really, this is something that we can we can get a diagnosis for.

SPEAKER_00 30:37

Yeah. And I and it's true also outside of the classroom for my daughter, and as she got older, she was able to articulate this a little bit more. But she would say for social situations, because she struggled in that arena, social situations, she almost was like disconnected from the socialization because she said she spent so much time in her head trying to figure out what the right thing to say would be or the right time to interject. Because when she was younger, she had gotten bullied a lot for speaking her mind and being and being very like aggressive with friends. And so as she got older, she learned to pull herself all the way back. And then it became this in her head, how do I do this? How do I do this? How do I do this? You know, and then it presented as like you weren't even in the conversation, you weren't even listening, you know, and and it presented a whole different dynamic and layer to the socialization that she was already having difficulty with.

SPEAKER_01 31:46

And a lot of girls have this struggle and have this hyper-vigilance where then they're second-guessing every cue, everything everyone says, everything that they're gonna say, and it's all in their head. Um, and it's like they have another tab open in their brain, constantly analyzing stuff. And it's very draining. And a lot of women have that as well. A lot of my female clients, people who write to me, people who you know, speak to me, um, they tell me that they have been doing that since they were a child and they really want to stop. Um, but you also become so worried to stop that level of hypervigilance. So I do talk about this a lot in the book because it is something that a lot of people, especially with so much late diagnosis, right? So so many people are getting diagnosed later in life, which means they've developed coping mechanisms. They just aren't healthy coping mechanisms, right? They're the coping mechanisms they developed because they didn't know what else to do. Um, and it sounds like with your daughter, she was doing that, but then she's learned to pivot and to not do that as much anymore.

SPEAKER_00 32:57

Yeah, and that was through self-awareness and that was through therapy, and that was through recognizing and having the diagnosis and learning the things that she was doing to mask and compensate, and then how to like re-navigate her way so that she could teach herself new ways to socialize and not be afraid, you know, to be her authentic self. And I think that's what happens a lot of times is that, especially what you were saying in later life when you get diagnosed, you've already developed a belief system around who you believe you are, right? And your identity has been shaped around those beliefs. And now it's like, well, it's scary to now have to like re-identify, right? Like kind of decide, wait, who am I really? Because I haven't been myself for so long. And I've always been hiding and pretending. Now I don't even know who the real, you know, Celeste is or the real Caroline is. And that's a whole nother world to navigate and enter.

SPEAKER_01 34:13

Absolutely. So a lot of people who are neurodiversion have masked and suppressed that authentic self to the point where they don't know who they are, right? And so there, I do have a chapter on unmasking. I'm actually also starting a course on unmasking that I'm gonna offer to people on my website. Um, and you know, part of it is a journey, right? To start to realize what are my values, you know, what do I like? What am I about? Um, because it becomes something that suppresses your authentic self to the point where it's it's not like you can just say, okay, I'm done with this now. I'm gonna present my authentic self. It's it's much more complicated than that. Um, and it I know exactly why it happens, right? It happens as a coping mechanism. Um, and because truthfully, any of us from the 80s, 70s, 90s, we were told to cut it out. You know, stop doing that. Why are you saying that? Why would you say that to someone? And so, you know, that hypervigilance you're describing, as well as that masking, developed as a coping mechanism because you were basically told to do that. You were basically told stop being who you are, because that person is annoying, and not like, wow, you have these like tremendous strengths and you have a great sense of humor. And I would love to hear that humor more. And maybe we teach you to think before you speak. By the way, think before you speak is like such a lightning rod to me because it is such a hard thing to do. And I talk about how to do it on my website in my books, but it is not a simple thing. It is not a simple thing for people who are neurodivergent. But I think that's why it developed. And then you you you wake up at 40 or 50 and you're like, I don't even know, you know, what I like to do, you know, what would be fun for me. And so it is a whole process um to unmask.

SPEAKER_00 36:07

Yeah, it is. So, what are some things that you do personally to just keep yourself centered, to keep yourself um, you know, tapped into your authentic self now that you've learned all of this about yourself and you're in it every day, you know, listening to other people who are going through these same things. What do you do for yourself, Caroline, to keep you feeling whole?

SPEAKER_01 36:38

Yeah. Well, so I talk about my unmasking journey in the book, and it's interesting because I remember thinking who I wanted to be. Um, because I was brought up in an environment where it was a little, you know, less about the makeup and the hair and the whatever. And I remember thinking, I remember meeting some moms and thinking, oh, that's who I want to be when I grow up, right? Um, and so some of some of me being centered about this stuff is that I I definitely masked in terms of presenting as everything is fine and always making everything fine no matter what. But a lot of my self, I did still, I had sort of created as who I wanted to be. So I wasn't fully, fully masked, just full disclosure in case people are gonna come for me about that and be like, you, you said this. Um, but I definitely have a bunch of things. I have a bunch of boundaries that I follow. Like you talked about habits and habit stacking. I am a ritual person. Like I was, I had to drop my son at karate camp this morning. And I was like twitching because I always wipe down the kitchen counters, I always straighten up the kitchen. I feel like when I have chaos in my brain and chaos in my space because of my ADHD, it makes it very like hard for me. I also have an incredibly busy life, so I have to keep on top of things. And I was like twitching, right? Because it was like I had went and I ran errands and I did some things, and I was so aware the whole time I was like, those counters are full of crumbs, you know what I mean? Um, and then, you know, so I have a lot of that, you know, I have boundaries that I set. I I need sleep. So I don't, you know, I won't record anything else after we record tonight, right? I will go and I will get my sleep. I really have a lot of things like that that I do um to make sure that I am more centered. Um, and I also have a lot of mindfulness exercises that I do. Um, I have like a YouTube channel that I follow um with this woman, Dr. Kate Truitt. She's awesome. You should talk to her. And she has all of these self-regulation exercises that she does. And I literally will feel like I am really anxious, I'm this, I'm that. And I will just go put on YouTube, put on my headphones and like do one of her um her exercises to sort of pull myself into centered. And so I really think part of the self-care piece, um, after I discovered my ADHD when I was 25, I really was lucky in that I got in with a really good psychiatrist who acted more like a coach to me. And she helped me really realize that my environment was so important and that I needed to, you know, curate my environment to work better for me. And luckily, um, I married my boyfriend from college, so he's known me forever. And luckily, my husband was really great about things. Like with my dyslexia and my learning disabilities, um, even if I read directions, which I often don't, I won't retain things. So, like he put in these fancy therm, uh, these fancy you know thermometers and stuff throughout the house. And he has like the lights rigged on Alexa, and I can't ever remember how to fix it when it's broken or whatever. And since our early 20s, he's been making me little cheat sheets that I can post around to fix things. Like I got very lucky in that my partner wasn't like, what's wrong with you? Yeah. He was like, This is something you just don't seem to be able to do, right? Like you don't seem to be able to retain this. And so, like, I will say to him, if you're gonna install that, like, I gotta have a cheat sheet and he will make it for me. So, you know, I got lucky in that sense that he really supports all my little like habit stacking rituals because um he's much more chill than I am, but he understands that's what I need. And I feel like that's a huge thing. Like, you have to have people in your life who get it, and if they don't, um, to bring them into some kind of family therapy to help them to understand, like, this is what I need.

SPEAKER_00 41:02

Yeah. And that's why I think it's important to be um in support groups or involved with some kind of coach or therapist or somebody where you really feel like you are being heard and that you're being seen, and that you are not an oddity. You are a beautiful creature of God who has amazing gifts and talents, and that this is just a part of who you are, and it should be celebrated for all of the strengths that come along with it and the things that are a little more difficult, you find tools and strategies and support systems to install into your life to make that easier.

SPEAKER_01 41:47

A hundred percent. And I think that, you know, not everybody's gonna understand, right? Like, look, I always want everyone to understand, and not everyone's gonna understand. Yep. But I think that if you have a circle of support, if you join a support group, if you have a therapist, if you have even one or two friends who say, yeah, you know, you need your rituals. It's good. Um, I think it is much better. And I think that that's if people are listening and they're like newly diagnosed and they have people in their life who don't understand, you know, I would get some some of those supports because I find that it makes things much better. Um, and then you can figure out what you want to do about the naysayers. But I will also say, you know, families are families, and not everybody in every family. I have some aunts and uncles who are in education and they are so understanding. Um, and then I have other people in my life, in my family, who don't get it. And everyone has those people. So those systems of support, uh to me, that's like day one. That's what you need. Because to have people who say, you know, this is what you need, and to support you, it's it's invaluable.

SPEAKER_00 43:01

Yeah, I agree. I agree. And I also think, and I talk a lot about this in this podcast and also with my coaching, um, you know, regulating the central nervous system is so important. So mindfulness, meditation, visualizations, tapping, really getting in tune to your body because your body is going to stop you from any sort of change that you want in your life. So you've built up these defense mechanisms, you've built up this identity, you have beliefs. And anytime now you learn that you want to go and change that, your body is going to resist it because it's going to feel unsafe. And the minute we go to change, uh oh, red flags start flying, our brain starts going into protective mode. No, no, no. And it's very easy to stop ourselves. Right. But if we're around a supportive group of people, people in our lives that understand, and we have good techniques under our belt to regulate our central nervous system, we can absolutely thrive with all of this rather than just merely survive through life.

SPEAKER_01 44:21

I mean, I couldn't have said it better. I think that that's absolutely necessary. And I think also if you are the parent of an ADHD child or an autistic child, you know, um, I hate to say it, I'm sorry, guys, but it all starts with us. And so the more we can learn that self-regulation, and by the way, it's easier said than done. There's people who can teach you. Um, I teach a course, I teach an entire coaching course. And my other life is that I own part of a coach academy that trains 70% of the ADHD coaches called the ADD Coach Academy. And I teach people to teach self-regulation. Not everybody knows it, so it's okay if you don't know it. But having that ability to co-regulate with your children and to be their source of self-regulation and to be calmer. Um, I find having raised two neurodivergent children myself that it is absolutely necessary. And um, and I it's a hard journey. Like I get it, it's like another thing on our plate as parents, but um, it really helps. And it helps with in the workplace and stuff too, because we all have coworkers and bosses and people who, you know, they're not gonna change. We have to change.

SPEAKER_00 45:38

Yeah. I was just gonna say, even though it's a lot of work, I will attest to that. Um, it has helped me not only parent my children, but it's helped me literally in all areas of my life with my relationships with my spouse, with my relationships with my coworkers, with my relationships with my um clients, you know, and my children. So it betterment is betterment. So when you're working on yourself and you're, you know, trying to um help someone else in their struggle, you're growing also along with the ride. So it's like it's just a win-win for everybody, I believe.

SPEAKER_01 46:21

I mean, I couldn't have said it better. It's totally that way. And I think when um when you're looking at like, what do I do? You know, what do I do day one? What do I do day two? Um, I think, you know, coming to understand your brain and then coming to find a way to emotionally and and and self-regulate is just something that helps everything. And I talk about it in friendship skills for neurodivergent adults. I talk about um self-regulation. Um, that doctor I mentioned, Dr. Kate Truett, um, you know, I met with her, I met with other anxiety experts, I had them read the chapters, I had them help me with the chapters um and you know, make sure that I had everything right since I'm not a doctor um and and contribute. And so there's a lot in this book vis-a-vis that, because it, you know, if you go to every social outing and you're feeling so dysregulated, it's really hard to pay attention to the cues and it's really hard to be present and it's really hard to have a good time.

SPEAKER_00 47:25

Yeah. Yeah. And that's what I meant by surviving. Like you're literally just trying to survive the next event. You're trying to survive the next day, and you're working so hard, it becomes exhausting. You know, and when you learn the tools, right? And when you learn how your brain works, and when you learn how to self-regulate, then literally you can start to survive, not just survive, but thrive in life. And it gets so much happier, it gets so much easier.

SPEAKER_01 47:56

It feels so much better. It does. And that's why going back to our original thing, you said, you know, what's the what's the point of you know, diagnosis, so to speak? That's the point. The point is that the more we know about ourselves, the more we can figure out what we need, the more we can thrive. Right. And so I think um, and I think for anyone out there who struggled with friendship and who struggle with connection and who struggle with their brain, um, that's why this is also, this book is also broken up into so many layers. Because you might be like, well, I'm not ready to take that on yet. But you might have situations where you do need answers socially. So, okay, do the one thing to try today, be on your journey where you are, but then have the book as answers for when you're like, oh my gosh, I have this coworker and I'm not sure what to do with them, or I'm not sure how to handle this situation. You go, you find the answers, and then, you know, maybe the next layer comes. I think it's a journey. And I think if I look back at the past, you know, 30 years, um, I've been layering things on and really have it stacking, as you say.

SPEAKER_00 49:09

Yeah, I love that. I love that. And I love this conversation. I think that my listeners got so much value from it. For the woman in midlife who is just starting to recognize herself in this conversation, what would you want her to understand first? What would be the one piece of advice or the the first thing that she should should do if she's if she's listening to this and going, wow, I'm there. I see a lot of that in me.

SPEAKER_01 49:39

I mean, I would say that if you go to add.org or chadd.org, those are both really reputable organizations. One is ADA, which is the Adult Attention Deficit Association, and the other is Chad, which is the Children and Adults Attention Deficit Association. And I would go to those places. Um, you can reach everything through me too. So if you um are listening to this and you're like, I don't remember any of this, um, at author Caroline M, go to my Instagram, DM me, I will write you back. Um, and if you write me an email, I will write you back. And one of the wonderful things about my email is that my admin monitors it. And so she says things to me every morning like, you know, wonderful Celeste wrote you and you haven't written her back for three days. And I'm like, oh shoot. So I have that in in place. And I would say, you know, getting that support, figuring out your brain, like taking that first step is what I would say. And also understand um that you're not broken. It's just a different way of looking at the world. And I talk about that in the book a lot, is how we process social information versus typical people and why it's important to know that and to know like there's nothing wrong with you. It's just it's a different way of processing information.

SPEAKER_00 51:04

Yep. Yep. I love that. And I will be sure to include all of that in the show notes. So be sure to check those out. Caroline, it was fantastic meeting you. It was great having you on the show. And you guys, be sure to pick up friendship skills for neurodivergent adults. Because, like Caroline said, it can, it's not only just for you, but it can help you in all different facets of your life because you're gonna have conversation and you're gonna socialize with all different people out in the world. Why not have an understanding about everybody and how they and how they actually like operate? So thank you so much. Thank you. Bye-bye. Bye. In listening back to this interview, I'm curious if you felt that it was as powerful and valuable as I did. I immediately thought of three or four people that I can't wait to listen to this when it airs on Monday. All right, here are the five takeaways. Number one, neurodivergence is often misunderstood, especially in women. Many midlife women were never diagnosed because they learned to mask their behaviors. They appeared fine on the outside while struggling internally with overwhelm, anxiety, and constant mental noise. Number two, masking comes at a cost. Suppressing your true self to fit in may help you avoid judgment, but it often leads to exhaustion, anxiety, and loss of identity. Over time, many women don't even know who they truly are beneath the coping strategies. Number three, awareness is the turning point. Recognizing patterns like rumination, overthinking, or social hypervigilance is where change begins. Once you see it, you can interrupt it and choose a different response. Number four, diagnosis is not a limitation. It's a doorway. Understanding how your brain works allows you to find the right strategies, support, and environment. It gives you language, clarity, and direction instead of confusion and self-judgment. And number five, self-regulation and support systems change everything. Healing and growth don't happen in isolation. Nervous system regulation, practical tools, and supportive friendships create the safety needed to move from surviving to truly thriving. Thank you so much for listening to today's episode. And like always, if you know someone that this would really resonate with, please share it with them. I would be forever grateful. Bye bye.