Episode 45: Client Episode - Burnout to Purpose: Carissa's Story

In this episode of To Our Core, Katie sits down with client and guest Carissa for a powerful conversation about growth, identity and what it really means to step into self-leadership.

Carissa opens up about the season of life that led her to coaching: postpartum burnout, overwhelm, and a deep sense of numbness while balancing motherhood, partnership, work, and the many responsibilities she was carrying. What started as a free connection call became the beginning of a 12-month transformation rooted in honesty, discomfort, and a willingness to challenge old patterns.

Together, Katie and Carissa explore:

• How Carissa first found Katie through word of mouth and social proof
• The moment Katie named exactly what she offers and why that mattered
• The difference between holding many responsibilities and wearing “many hats”
• People pleasing, control, martyrdom, and validation as hidden patterns
• Why honest feedback can be an act of respect
• The contrast between one-to-one coaching and group coaching
• How certainty in self changes the way we handle uncertainty
• What Carissa now believes is possible for her future

This conversation is full of honest reflection, mindset shifts, and practical leadership lessons for women who are ready to stop surviving and start leading themselves with more clarity, devotion and choice.

Key takeaways:

• You do not need to be everything to everyone.
• The language you use about yourself shapes your reality.
• Coaching can uncover the root cause, not just the surface behavior.
• Self-leadership begins when you choose yourself without apology.
• Growth often comes through discomfort, not control.

If this episode resonated with you, it’s a reminder that your life can shift at any point when you decide to choose differently.

Resources & Links

• Katie Murray Coaching
• Ways to Work with Katie
• Katie's Free Resources
• Katie's Instagram

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Welcome. This is to our core with Katie Murray, and this is the place where we peel back our layers to uncover who we really are at our centre, at our core. And think of it as a chat with your bestie, the one who can make you laugh until your belly hurts, who is ridiculously unfiltered, and will lovingly call you forward to help you cut through the noise and get real with yourself. Around here, nothing is off limits. And we are mixing this up with equal parts humour and heart. So let's dive right in. Hello, hello, and welcome back to To Our Call with Katie Murray. And it's not just with Katie Murray today, it is actually with a beautiful client of mine, Carissa, who I've been working with for now about 12 months. And this woman is an absolute powerhouse. I'm gonna let her introduce herself. Welcome to the podcast, Carissa. I'm so happy to have you here.

SPEAKER_01 0:52

Hi, thank you for having me, Katie. And thanks for all the listeners who jump in to listen to, I guess, us together talking about our uh coaching journey this spar, yeah, over 12 months. And I guess you've been supporting me in many ways as a mother of three, balancing, juggling life, as well as being a partner and a guide with my partner who owns the the Yard Jim Kingston and also me. I'm a a woman who's worked in executive leadership for the last, I don't know, decade or so. And for me, I'm um yeah, I'm just excited to share more about the way that I show up for myself and also for the people that I um that I work closely with in the community and that I work with because yeah, I'm just about being an advocate and about people having agency for themselves and their own leadership.

SPEAKER_02 1:46

Yeah, and that's why I was so excited to have you on as a guest, because, you know, I don't think your journey in itself should only be witnessed by me and your close circle. I would love it to be witnessed by all the listeners of this podcast. And we didn't know each other at all. Like I didn't even think you were following me on Instagram when you just jumped straight into my DMs. And so I'm really curious because we've never really had a conversation about it. How did you find me? And what was it about my work that appealed to you enough to at least book that free connection call with me to ask more about what I do and how it could potentially benefit you?

SPEAKER_01 2:30

Yes, I actually'm looking forward to telling you this because this is um, yeah, this is a nice way for you to, I guess, see the success in in yourself and how you present so that people trust in you to to work closely with you. I I feel like when you're um you're going through motherhood and whether you've had one, two, three, however many children you have, that there's always this time after my I don't know, my son was maybe 12 months old. And there's always this time where there's a part of you that just has this niggle, this let's move to the next level, let's create something, let's get out of what the funk that we might be in, or I just know that there's a another expansion of me that's available. And it would have been right around his one-year birthday. And I was also feeling very burnt out, very stuck, very, but like I had a fire in me. I just wanted, I just I knew that I I wanted to work with someone closely. I want to be able to work with someone who can find the best parts of me and be able to, yeah, I guess, elevate what what I do to show up every day. So I remember putting a a story out on my own personal Instagram actually saying, you know, I'm in I'm interested in self-development. Um, you know, I listen to podcasts of and I listed like four different people that uh motivate me. And they're people that work through like energy, behavior, leadership, and uh, you know, I listen to their podcasts a lot and read their books. And I I said I want someone who can transmute those types of um energies for me. And I had a couple of responses from people in my DMs, and two of them were about you, and you were obviously local to the gym. Um, so people knew me and through that community, and that's how I found you.

SPEAKER_02 4:27

So that was it. Thank you so much. That just goes to show, again, and I hope that listeners can actually translate that and map that across to their own lives, that you actually never truly understand or realize the impact that you're having in ways that may not be seen or maybe able to be measured. And so never underestimate the impact and your energy that you carry into any room that you are in. Um and I'm not even sure whether I even had the podcast going when you first started working with me. I I don't think I did. So it this was not a message that was landing in a lot of people's ears. It was more in the circle of like my direct clients. So thank you for sharing that. Thank you for, you know, once again reaffirming my belief in social media that it can work for good. And so you saw the DMs coming in, you saw the recommendations to, you know, to give me a go or to that I may be a good fit for you. What do you remember most about that first connection call? And what was the turning point that told you that this was going to be the right move for you?

SPEAKER_01 5:34

Well, I remember you saying to me, I'll just tell you flat out now, Carissa, I'm not like the four people, but you know, you wanted to, I like different parts of those. I'm not like those, I'm I'm I'm me, and what I offer is this. And even though that was completely opposite to what I was seeking, it was the power in your ability to to state that from the get-go, to actually step into your own uh to step into your own alignment of what you do. And that was that was really, I guess, helpful for me because I think too many sources we went, and we can talk about social media like if we if we get too through that, but too many sources of information are coming to us all at once. And it's about how we can connect back to our own internal, like compass behaviors and and vision and and values to really hone in on what it is that we are seeking. And during that call, you asked me a series of questions. Um, some of them required pondering, some of them required me to actually go in a little bit deeper. But I think it was me being able to see that, hey, this is going to probably push me a little bit so that I can actually move the needle. So I I I already yeah, found that out through that call. And I think at that time of where I was, at that point of life being very burnt out, postpartum mum, juggling a lot of things, wearing a lot of hats, that I just needed a bit of turbo boost to to stop feeling. And I used the worm numb a lot. I don't associate with that word much at all, really now, 12 months later, but I remember using that word a lot. So that's what it was. You you holding firm in who you are as a a coach, but also as a woman. And then the questions that you were posing on me and how I was thinking was yes, this is what I needed. I needed someone who was going to ask me the questions that made me feel like, oh, okay, there's a little bit more that I need to work on here. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:33

Yeah. And thank you for that reminder because there was a time in my life where I would have absolutely emulated other people and thought, how can I be more like them? And it is through my own growth journey that I have become so concrete in that is like a futile mission to be more like someone else. Because really, underneath, all I've got is my superpower, is my uniqueness in who I am. And there was so much of the storytelling through my younger years that was about fitting in and morphing into what everyone else was doing as a sense of security and safety and not standing out. Because if I stood out, there is a high probability that I'm not going to be everyone's jam and that I'm not going to be accepted by all. And so I thought if I was more palatable, if I became more like everyone else, then that would lead to success in terms of safety of being accepted. And over the last, I would say, five years, I have become really clear about that will make me the least memorable person ever. Because I will just literally camouflage into my environment instead of being, wow, I actually lived a life that felt true to me. And the only way that I can do that is to have an opinion. There's the only way I can do that is by actually standing out. And that is going to mean that I am not everyone's cup of tea, and that that was okay. So me claiming that in that connection call with you was a real testament of that growth journey of wow, probably, you know, three or four years even before that, if you had of reeled off a series of names, um, and I remember someone going, you know, I can see you being the next Mel Robbins. And I was like, Yeah, I can see the compliment that's intended in that. And also, fuck that, I want to be the next Katie Murray. Like I only have an obligation to sit in my own name. And so yeah, it was a real testament to evidence, and I thank you again for the reminder to reflect back on that we can in any point in our lives shift focus and start claiming it more as our own. And so you've talked about briefly about kind of where you were at in your life and burnout, lots of hearts, but still probably within that cloud of postpartum. Can you tell us a little bit more about where were you in your life just before we started working together? You don't associate now with the word numb, but speak more into that and what were you facing and how are you feeling about life and about yourself?

SPEAKER_01 10:25

There was a period of time where we were just in uh well, I was in this moment of going from having a third son and I have three boys. So it's a very energetic, high-paced, loud and sometimes, you know, aggressive um household. And um the the fact that I was holding a lot of that a lot of the time and also uh working, balancing work, balancing being a supportive wife and also really having a that flame underneath me that I I just felt like there was more to what it was, but I just couldn't work it out. Um I felt I like I was abundantly clouded with too many decisions, too many tasks, too many things to manage. And I found it really hard to ask for help. I found it really hard to, you know, sometimes just get up out of my out of the lounge to do the tasks that I needed to do. And I knew I knew everything. I knew everything that I needed to do. And I would do a lot of them. I was supporting my husband a lot through the business. And yeah, there was just so many hats that I was wearing at the time. And I also held this persona that I can do it all, you know. I I'm a martyr in some ways, and that I I didn't know that it was the reason that was also causing the complete opposite of that of being numb and I'm unable to make um the decision or the next move. And I felt like I had changed who I was in such a, you know, short period of time. And that I yeah, I just disassociated so much. I didn't have it's hard for me to reconnect back with with all of that because it has been some time now and I'm very different. But yeah, I I just felt like I was drowning in a lot of things, whether it was financial, whether it was um the the mess around the house or my relationships. And I yeah, there was a lot of me yearning for fun, for connection, for organization, for wealth, for health, all of these things. So yes, there was a time there that all of that felt unattainable, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 12:48

And you've mentioned it a couple of times already on the podcast about I wore many hats. And that was a statement that I really challenged for you. A lot of the work that I do with clients is yes, unpacking what the root cause is and what we often find, even with podcasts and the shelf help type work that people often access in the community, and that can be hugely beneficial. It's not the same as coaching though, because it's not gonna acutely pick up on the nuances in the stories that you're telling yourself. And what it's gonna do is it might snap, if you thought of it as a plant, it might snap the top of what you can see above the soil, but it's not pulling it out from the root. It's not taking away the core belief that's underpinning and running the actual pattern for you. And so it's kind of like what you were saying is I I knew the knowing, like I I knew what I needed to do, and you might have snapped it off at the top of the soil, and so there was nothing visible, but yet the root was still deeply embedded and would sprout again, which was where the pattern would reform in your life. And I started working with you, particularly around language that you were using. So things like I wear many hats, and I was like, what if one hat just said Carissa and it held all of you? What if you were looking at your house from a bird's eye perspective and you could see all the walls in there, and then you allowed the walls to sink down and you were standing in the middle and of every room in that house, which was now very open plan, it was all of you. It was the mother in you, it was the wife in you, it was the executive leader in you, it was the co-owning a gym, it was all of you, and that you just got to stop the exhaustion of taking off a hat and putting on a new hat. And that's the benefit of coaching is that someone can hear your exact phrasing and uh start unpacking what the root cause might be. And as part of that root cause, what keeps that root healthy is that we often water it with a secondary gain. We often put fuel and fertilizer, and because in some way showing up as the martyr, some way of being the person that comes in and saves the day and rescues and seems to have it all together can actually be super affirming at times. And I'm really curious to hear your perspective in the work that we did around that martyrdom and the language and stories that you're telling yourself in order to maintain a secondary gain there.

SPEAKER_01 15:39

I think that as I was doing things, I was always critical, self-critical, like, you know, you're not doing this the right way, or, you know, come on, Krissa, there's people that have got their shit together and they're in these circumstances, or and I'm I'm I'm not immune to knowing that there are many people around the world that probably think that way. But it was that that's not the way that we should be operating, giving ourselves a little bit more grace, a little bit more support, and showing up so that acknowledging where I was where I was at and how capable I actually was actually helped drop down a lot of those walls rather than showing up differently in a lot of the spaces that I'm in. And it was definitely around changing my internal communication, my internal language and how rather than yeah, thinking about how I wasn't coping or yeah, that I wasn't that I was comparing myself a lot to other women, uh, whether it was other women who weren't even mums, other women who were mums to, you know, um multiples, and and it just it's not helpful. And it's it's not it's it's not, I guess, my internal capability does not marry with with those. It's more about how I can actually reflect on what it is that I am capable of, what it is that I can achieve, and how much I've already done if I if I you've actually given yourself a little bit of gratitude along the way. And in many ways, it was just breaking down a lot of life into bite-sized sort of pieces and not be being so overwhelmed by things and and realizing that hey, you are the one that's actually in control here. You are the one who can ask for help or set a boundary or have a conversation that might not feel comfortable, but it needs, I guess it needs to be said and have have yeah, just all those things that just take more leadership and self-ownership in in my own life. And that made making decisions a lot easier. That made me, if I was feeling a little bit exhausted or a little bit, you know, um, burnt out, it was more, okay, what is what does that actually, what is that actually looking looking like? And what is the root cause, exactly exactly like the root cause of all of that? And how can I actually take control over it so that, you know, I'm not leading in with this energy of I'm a busy mum with three boys who yell and scream and fight. That's not my reality. My reality is I have three beautiful sons who love their mum and want to spend a lot of time with us as a family, and that is a privilege. That is in alignment of exactly who I am. I nothing else makes me more happier than seeing my my children every single day. But I also know that I need extra things that are gonna fill me up, and that's okay too. That's naming those, aligning with those, and doing them out of devotion, self-devotion for me rather than obligation. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:02

What secondary gains did you discover that was keeping those problematic behaviors or thoughts in place? So let's use the martyrdom as an excuse. What benefit did you get out of continuing to do it all and try and look like you have it all together?

SPEAKER_01 19:21

No, there wasn't much benefit to up, to be honest, apart from it was more that I felt like I was I felt like I was in control, but that wasn't at all the case. It was, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:34

So control was a key theme that we talked about, and also like validation. Like validation is a number one reason why people will keep in place behaviors for themselves because often we're praised for it. When you go above and beyond, or you're easygoing and you don't speak up and you don't like rock the boat, or you're selfless and you're always putting others in front of your people in our society often praise that. And so there can be an unconscious holding on of, well, if I let go of these behaviors that are actually driving me into the ground, then you know, that whole acceptance piece that I talked about earlier in my story of like stepping into my own identity as I'm not in competition with anyone, that can feel shaky to step away from, believing that, whoa, you know, some people may not like this new version of Katie or this new version, Carissa, where you put in place a boundary and you actually hold it. So I heard you talking just then about like is actually my choice and I can actually do this. And which leads me into asking you, what was one of the most challenging things that you had to face in coaching?

SPEAKER_01 20:52

Look, every every every time you and I jump on a call together, there is a point in time where I'll say something and you'll catch me on it, and I'll sit there and like look up, like I'm looking into the back of my brain and go, fuck, that was it. That was the moment right there. It it happens every single call, and that's because it's the evolution of me. And I feel like those moments are the challenging moments because it's getting me to actually question sorts, behaviors, and patterns that had actually been imprinted on me from some period of time, whether it's, you know, the high performance that I expect of myself, or if it's the people pleasing me, or if it's, you know, all of those patterns. So it's it's those ones where I'm having having to challenge those, and whether it's the way that I communicate, or if it's the embedded thoughts, behaviors, and patterns that I am moving away from. Choice, control, people pleasing, procrastination, they are all like really strong themes for me, uh, have been challenging. And, you know, to some effect, there are still. Some that do remain challenging for me. Ultimately, I think we've talked about this a few times. A lot of the things that I feel really uncomfortable with generally is people pleasing, where I feel as though I want to make a lot of people happy and I want to bring a lot of value into people's lives. And blurring that line has been detrimental to me in some ways. And I'm, as I was saying to you, that line is getting a lot firmer now I have the opportunity to bring value to people's lives, but not to my suffering. So yes.

SPEAKER_00 22:33

So that one's been a bit uncomfortable. Um yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:38

And that's so true because the word people pleasing, and we were talking about this only recently together, it it's given quite a bad rap. And also, there is nothing wrong with pleasing people. The problematic fear of it is when you do it at the detriment of your own well-being, and you do it when it is either consciously or unconsciously being run by fear. If I don't do this, I will be less loved. If I don't do this, I will be less worthy in their eyes. If I don't do this, I won't be accepted. That's a fear narrative that's running, and you may not have any conscious awareness of that. And that's why when you're talking about every single call, you pick me up on something, it's because we can't necessarily see our own blind spots. I am acutely listening in. There is not a moment that I'm not giving my clients in 100% attention when I'm online with them because it will be potentially one tiny throwaway comment, or even the non-verbal kind of stuff where someone will say something and then shake their head at the same time. And I'll be like, There's not congruence there. You are literally saying something, but your unconscious mind is literally making your head shake your head from side to side in disagreement. And or you might do a quick eye roll, or like my coaching is trained in eye patterns. So I watch where you are recalling the information and are you creating a picture in your mind of what that looks like? You know, are you going to a place in your emotions and your feelings from a kinesthetic kind of position in terms of how things make you feel, which will tell me so much about how you communicate and how you process information and memories, so that then I can communicate more effectively with you too. And so I hear you when you say that there are things that you're still working on and also as am I. This perception that we're gonna get to this perfection or this standard where we get to close the door and go, I am a perfect individual now. Um there is nothing that I could grow in, or nothing I could develop myself in, is a total farce. It's a total farce. And your commitment to your growth and your development has been so inspiring. We were talking about this the other night. Despite the discomfort at points in time, you always lean in. You always like you actually verbally say that like you got me. You got me. There it is. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:22

I think that's exactly what I say every time. There it is.

SPEAKER_02 25:25

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it's like, that's what you're you, I'm here for. Like that's what I'm here for. So when you look back over the last 12 months of working together, what are some of those key moments that you felt really supported you in this process of growth? And to continue to lean in.

SPEAKER_01 25:42

Yeah. I think one of the ones, and I I talk about this a lot with, you know, the managers that I work with, is about, you know, there's a lot of there's a part of me that wants to be able to support people, like please people, uh, bring a lot of joy to people's lives. And a lot of that comes down to manipulation. Uh, I think that was one of the biggest ones that I felt like I was always trying and giving, giving more, like buying things for people or giving a lot of people my time or expecting the best of people. And it was never met to it, it never met to actually fulfilling me because it wasn't reciprocated or appreciated, or it became just an expectation on their side. And that was a big that was one of the biggest pivotal moments where you said, Chrissy, you realize that you're manipulating people into liking you and it hit me hard.

SPEAKER_02 26:39

Yeah, I can I can almost hear the listeners going, ooh. But yeah, people pleasers are master manipulators because you're trying to control other people's perceptions of you. It sounds harsh, it's also really truthful.

SPEAKER_01 26:52

Yep. And so I show up very differently now in the way that my expectations are for myself. And doesn't mean that I can't bring joy and happiness to people's lives in the way that I enter a room, in the way that I communicate and in the way that I represent myself, because that is my my essence, right? It's more how I can, you know, I had a conversation yesterday with someone to say, hey, you know, you're letting me down a little bit here and what the impact is and let them know. And that was a great, that was a great conversation. That was a, I totally can see that. I don't think I'm doing my job properly. And that's just one example of, you know, previously I would have been like, oh, how is everyone? How's the kids? Like, and that's all all great and everything, but understanding how if I continue to allow for like pick up their 25% and I'm I'm up here, you know, there's there's it's my detriment. It's it's it's my expectations that aren't being met. And I need to let them know that so that we can fix it. And for them to also have their own self-reflection. It's it's I'm doing them a disservice because I yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:56

So it's also hugely respectful. It's hugely respectful. We often demonize having really honest conversations with people, like, I don't want to hurt their feelings. You know what? You know what's gonna hurt their feelings more is deception. If you have identified that there is a gap that it needs to be corrected, and you sit on that in quietness, how are you helping them? How are you helping them? And if you can say right up front to people, I am here to help you, and you will never ever have to question if I'm worried about something or if I've got something I need to talk to, I'll just come to you. Yeah. And it's never gonna be with the intention of confrontation, blame, shame, or punitive. It's just about like if for us to have true honesty and therefore have true relationship and intimacy in even professional settings, to have a true knowing of seeing each other, then we have to go first sometimes and lead with that. And in that they can feel incredibly respected.

SPEAKER_01 29:01

Absolutely. And if you go but like if I go back to, you know, whenever whenever I first started my working career, and that was very young, but I still remember my best, my best leader. And it was because she was always willing to ask better of me. And, you know, that probably comes down to why I I have such a high performance kind of mentality. But I think that it it also plays out in so many of my relationships. And whether it's whether it's at home or whether it's me like working out with someone or if I'm at the gym and I'm sitting down having a conversation, it's just like, what do you think about that? Like, where can I get more, where can I actually ask really good, solid questions for your benefit, but also to, I guess, everybody to get a better picture of of a scenario. And that people pleasing sort of yeah, that's it's really kind of been clear and and transparent along the way. And I guess that also comes down to a lot of that being about control as well. We talked about control a little bit because, you know, if I can just do it all, I know the, I know the the the things are being met, or I know that, you know, it's like when the dishwasher isn't stacked exactly how you like it because things get clean, but then, you know, I'm I'm upset because no one's helping me do the dishwasher. Or that's just one example, right?

SPEAKER_02 30:29

I truly had a client and she would not mind me saying this at all because I think it resonates with the womanhood that are probably listening to this. She actually, in her first coaching call or connection call with me, named the dishwasher as being a great source of rage for her because and that exact story that you just told of I'll do it my fucking self, and then why the hell is no one helping me? So it's this vicious cycle of look at me and how I'm managing it all. It makes me feel brave, it makes me feel strong, it makes me feel resilient. Other people might even respect that of me, and then also this deep resentment that's starting to brew about no one stepping up and going, and you don't have to. In order for them to do that though, we have to be willing to receive. We have to be willing to go, if they step up and go, you don't have to do that, take a seat for you to go, thank you, and step back rather than no, it's fine, I'm halfway done. Like, I'll just do it, you know? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:32

Yeah.

unknown 31:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:34

So thank you for bringing that up because I think a lot of people will resonate. I'm hearing this dishwasher analogy a lot, and it it's such a great metaphor for how women are feeling about their lives.

SPEAKER_01 31:45

Yeah. The di it's a dishwasher, it's having conversation, it's yeah, it's it's it's so many different things. Um and if I'm not actually articulating what it is that I'm wanting or what help I am seeking, or anything like that, how can I expect for though that to be even met even if it's at 70%, you know, that's that's what we, you know, the control part.

unknown 32:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:09

Yeah. And releasing, like loosening the grip. So my way of coaching isn't to come in and say that's the wrong way of doing things, or you shouldn't do that. I don't tend to use in my language a lot of shouldn't, because that's just my perception. Often looking at the outside world and determining a right way or a wrong way. And if we could hold that space of there not being a right or a wrong way, there just being multiple different perceptions of how to do life. I really thank you for sharing that experience because what I practice doing is asking lots of questions about whether or not the things that people are bringing up for them is actually supporting them. Is that helpful for you to think in that way? Is that helpful for you to hold on to that belief that you're the one that has to do it all in order for things to get done? And by asking the questions, my objective is to loosen the grip on the idea that this is the only way to be. Because then what I'm asking people to do is step into having choice over their own life. And it might be that they still choose to do things exactly how they've always done it because they've considered then the other choices, then like, no, this one works best for me. And it's neither here nor there for me as to what they choose. It's just about starting to loosen the grip that this is the only way. And you've experienced my coaching both one-to-one and in group coach coaching programs. And I'd really love you to talk through your experience in each of those and how you found them to be quite different.

SPEAKER_01 33:45

Coaching one-to-one, I guess, is this opportunity for me to really tell you a lot of my stories so that we can like yeah, talk through like the the the repetitive thoughts, feelings, behaviors, and those patterns that I'm seeking change for. So, like, you know, I talked to you about this the other day where I said, like, I've been in many different coaching circles, women's circles, um, leadership circles where we talk about themes, we talk about scenarios, we talk about, you know, solutions, but we don't actually talk about how to change behaviors and how we can challenge and lean into a little bit of discomfort in order to do that. And I think that that's one of the benefits that I've definitely come across just working with you one-on-one is the ability for me to. I think I said this to you the other day. The clarity that I have in many parts of my life from just taking these steps is huge. So it's having less control on all of the things because it's all just working for me, because I'm a lot more open. I'm a lot more. I'll give you one plain example before I talk about like the group stuff is like I remember there was a time last year where I would be doing all of the kids in the morning, dropping them off to school, dropping off to the next place, getting the groceries, going, trying to go to the gym, trying to have a meeting, then working from home, then doing the towels. Like, you know, you know what, you know what the the life isn't. You know, I talked about the word monotony. And I felt like I was just clenching the whole day and like driving really close to the steering wheel all the time. And then getting to the end of the day and my husband being home and wanting to connect with me and feeling really just numb and like don't, I don't, I don't want to talk. I don't want to do anything, I just want to numb out. I just want to be like, you know, and like I was so dissatisfied in it. So I knew that there was the route that I needed to change. So even though I'm still doing all of the things and still racing around and still doing a lot of those, those things, it is me, like even just voice noting my husband at midday going, hey, I've just done this, this, and this, you know, I've just been and and done all of this. I can see how I'm I'm feeling a bit tense at the moment. So I just want to like let it out. I want to talk about it. And he knows he's aware. And the rest of the afternoon, he's a game and how we then reciprocate within with one another. And I wouldn't have had the capacity back then to have even thought ahead to do that. But I have more capacity now because I'm taking more control of it. So that's just one example. The other parts of like the group is just the solidarity, like the solidarity of women who may not have similarities or may have many similarities, but we each understand that we're on this journey of life of you know, frequent change, frequent questioning, frequent wanting expansion, growth, and understanding how together we can share stories to learn from each other. So if you know someone has experienced something that I relate to, and I just find that those it's similar things have like generally occur for people and you can learn from them, but it's also in how you teach others that you can learn from the teachings. So that's the experience that I've had. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:19

Yeah. And it is so much in those group programs, there's so much healing with womanhood that happens in there. You know, women that may have had relationships and friendships break down and the trust in sisterhood has eroded. And then they start to see themselves in other women's stories. Some women may come in thinking I wouldn't feel comfortable telling, but like deep and personal things. And normally it's like coaching call number two. That people start going, actually, this actually feels incredibly safe. There's actually I can I can see myself in other people. So it's kind of like they are the reflection of me and I am the reflection of them. And that safety is so beautiful to witness. Uh women starting to form true and deep friendships through their own growth, even if they're navigating different things. There are similar themes in witnessing each other through change and feeling shaky sometimes and knowing that whatever is said in that space is held in that space with utmost respect and confidentiality. I'm wondering for you what feels possible now. You are continuing coaching with me in a one-to-one space. You've expressed an interest to join the embodied mastermind as well. What feels possible for you now that perhaps didn't feel possible 12 months ago when you came to me feeling numb?

SPEAKER_00 38:53

Opportunity, capacity, clarity.

SPEAKER_01 39:00

We talked about how I now like it's it's more what am I what am I here on this earth to do? What is my creative energy here to to do to to make impact on, right? And how because I I truly and wholly believe that everybody here on this planet is here for a purpose, of course, and what we all have an impact in some way, shape, or form, and how we decide on what that is and the choices that we make, because we we actually decide what that is, and how the clarity about all of that has been very heart-opening, very eye-opening, like all of the things that I want to achieve are sort of feeling in arm's reach, feeling like I'm capable of them, feeling like I have the capacity for it. Because I think if, like you said to me, w when you're on a mission, like you could run, what was it, four companies? Do you know what I mean? Like if you're on a mission and you have that capacity, and that's how I'm feeling. And I feel very aligned in in many ways. And I think the the main thing is that actually I love the discomfort. I love it in so many different ways. I love it in like you know, when you go to the gym and you get this you're sore, but you know that it's because your muscles have just done, or like you're you're you're you're doing a really hard workout and you just feel like the benefit of it, or if I'm in the sauna, I just love that feeling. And I love when I'm in a tricky situation and it's just like, okay, here are the lessons, here are the learnings, here is the opportunity. Thank you. What am I going to learn from this? And I just the uh the uncertainty that life brings to you sometimes. I've made so much peace with it's all good. Like it's there are so many things that I can do to pivot in the next hour, let alone next week. So it's it's one of those.

SPEAKER_02 41:04

I was talking to Carissa only this week about that certainty versus uncertainty space, and that your brain actually needs both. You need a level of certainty in your life, and you also need a level of uncertainty, otherwise, your unconscious mind will create some chaos in order to create some uncertainty in your life. And for those people that have been following along my Instagram page, going back a few months at least, you may have seen that I went to Queensland to do masters in NLP as another up-leveling of my skills and resources that I could offer to people and my own life. And one of the exercises that we have to do was a board break. And we had to have 100% certainty in ourselves. That was a thick board. Like some of these board breaks that you see, they might have had multiple layers of timber that are kind of glued together. So they're like the sturdiness of that timber isn't there, and that makes it easier to break through. This was a solid bit. Like when they got them out of the boxes, they blew the sawdust off. Like and it was firm. I was knocking on it thinking, like, particularly in the first couple days, I don't think I'm gonna be able to put my hand through this because they kept saying, This is not about force. This is not about force, it's about 100% certainty, and the energy that will come from that will break the board. How can I? And I'm like, yeah, so I need to hit it hard. And they're like, absolutely not. Do not hit it hard, otherwise you'll probably break your hand. And so I was like, oh my goodness, I kind of need my hands. And there was a story running based on fear about the uncertainty of it. Now, through the work that we did in the first half of that 15-day course where we had the board before the board break, I became 100% certain. In fact, when I went to hit the board, I was literally a vibrating energy, like vibrating. And I felt like I hardly touched the board in order to break it. There was no redness on my palm, there was no pain. There, I didn't even really feel the impact. I was that certain. But then the very next day, they were like, now that you have 100% certainty in self, what are you willing to be uncertain about? Because you need both. And so your ability to hold the uncertainty is entirely because you now have certainty in self. I remind people all the time on this podcast with my clients in the real world, so to speak, that they have survived literally their hardest days. Your success rate is 100%. You may not have dealt with it in the way that you would have liked to, you may have stumbled through it, and you also got through it. Is your certainty that that every all of your evidence, if you want to look at how you survived, is there to evidence it. And so when you can realize that you will always have yourself and say, I've got this, then the uncertainty is still present. However, it no longer holds you in a frame of fear where you can't take action around it. So tell me one thing, and I know it might be hard, but tell me one thing that you are most proud of from the past 12 months.

SPEAKER_00 44:33

Probably that. Like I'm good.

SPEAKER_01 44:39

And it's like whenever I feel like I can't do something, it's all that like reframe of like, how can I? You know, that that it's just literally the change in my mindset in many ways, internally, and then how I show up externally. And it gives so much satisfaction in my life that yeah, that I feel solid, I feel good, I feel like if something feels a bit uncomfortable, it doesn't feel like it used to, which is all-consuming numbness, anxiety, exhaustion, all of those things. It's not to say that I don't have days where I'm I'm exhausted. It's how I tend to myself, then rather than going, you know, the the the spiraling of like, I don't have control, I feel, I feel overwhelmed, I'm like, okay, so how can I actually feel out of, get out of this, whether it's telling someone how I feel, at least unloading that off my chest, if it's moving my body, if it's actually going to bed on time, if it like, you know, what am I actually serving myself to to respond better to the circumstances that I'm in? So that the other things I think it's just the general mindset shift, the general uh language shift and the certainty that I do have of self that I feel actually like welcoming of things that might feel uncomfortable for me and the people around me.

SPEAKER_02 46:12

Yeah. Change the way you think and you'll change the way that you experience the world. Simple as that. We only experience this world through our own perception. So if we change the way in which we perceive things, we will literally change the experience of how we are in this world and what is happening in our external environment. And I'm super happy to hear some people might chuggle, but I'm super happy to hear that you occasionally you feel exhausted because you know what? That is the opposite of numbing. You are feeling your life, and also you don't add a whole story about this is my life, I'm always exhausted. It's like, you know what, in this moment I feel exhausted and I'm gonna honor that. Yeah, this is literally not about it's the opposite of toxic positivity where you've got to pretend everything's fine all the time. I'm like, I want you to sit in your shit. And then you get to decide, is this just for a moment or is this how things have been tracking on for quite a while? And that's when I would be like, How is this supporting you? Is there a different way to do it? Could we have a look at choice that's available to you right now? Because there's always choice. And if you could speak to that version of yourself who was deciding whether to book that first call with me, what would you want her to know?

SPEAKER_01 47:29

That there is, yeah, potential on the other side of this, that there is shift, there is change, there is, you know, feeling like I can go from being numb to being all good. Like we're all good here. Like you've got it, babe. Like you you just go love yourself.

SPEAKER_00 47:47

You just go love yourself, girl.

SPEAKER_01 47:49

You just go love yourself. Yeah. You are yeah, that that would be it. Like just on the other side of all of this is opportunity. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 47:59

Yeah. What do you want listeners to hear in your story, given that we are all mirrors of each other?

SPEAKER_01 48:04

We are all mirrors. I think that whether you're it whatever phase of life that you're in, there is any at any point in time you can decide. You can make a like you can actually decide like that, hey, I don't know if I really want to do this anymore. Or hey, I really don't know if this feels right or good for me anymore. Hey, I really don't know if I want to go to that thing or do that thing or see that person or be in this like, you know, space anymore. That is all available, you know. I just want to show up differently one day and fuck it, I can. Like I can absolutely absolutely do that. Or yeah, like I don't need to perform for anyone else but for myself and how what feels good for me, what turns me on and what lights me up, all of those things.

SPEAKER_02 48:55

Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. If there is someone listening that is like toyed with the idea of coaching and yet hasn't taken that leap, what would you want them to hear?

SPEAKER_01 49:13

If you're toying with it, then there's a like that that you're you're seeking something, you're seeking some kind of growth, development shift. And I think that it's, you know, people say like, oh, you know, coaching's not for like not for me. Like, why? Like I just feel as though everybody in this world deserves to have someone in their corner and has someone who can like even, you know, the top coaches of the world have someone who is consistently expanding their mindset because we are not there, there is no there is no person in this world that goes, now I'm all good. I'm all good here, I'm perfect, like because we're not. And coaching doesn't make you perfect, it just makes you understand where you have potential to to shift into what it is you're desiring. And if you are, if you do have devotion for yourself, and if you do have that growth mindset, like it, like that's what it comes down to, like having that growth mindset, like it's for you. And and and it's not only just for you, it is, it's it, it serves you. It I just think that having the right person in your corner who's willing to help you shift behaviors so that you can be the best mom, the best, the best partner, the best owner, the best leader, the best, but the the all of that is actually the leader in yourself, like having your own self-leadership to show up every day in or doing all of the things that you do. So that's what yeah, definitely having that open that growth mindset.

SPEAKER_00 50:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:50

When people invest money to be coached, I want people to hear this loud and clear. You are not investing in me. You are not buying my services, you are investing in yourself. So if the price feels stretchy for you, you've already identified that there is a limitation in your belief of what you're worth because it's got nothing to do with me. It's got everything to do with looking at a price to something and going, I'm not worth that. My prices are very competitive. Very competitive in terms of the coaching sphere because I come from a place of accessibility for my clients. That is most important to me. And that is the sole reason why I run this podcast is not to listen to the sound of my own voice. It is so that even if someone at this point in time can't afford coaching, they can hopefully receive support in some way through the podcast. Same as the free resources on my website, same as the my mailing list where I sent out a free resource and a tool to help people like do a bit of a check-in and update on their own lives and zoom out and have a look at what's working well for them right now. All of this comes from an accessibility point. And also there needs to be a question at some point at what point are you going to say, I'm fucking worth this? I'm worth this. Not Katie Murray coaching, I'm worth putting the money into myself so that I can live my boldest, brightest life that feels fulfilling for me. And that might look very different from person to person. It literally might be you feeling confident, walking into a room and opening the door first to a restaurant. And your shoulders are back and you've got a smile on your face, or putting your hand up in a meeting and using your voice and owning it. It might be as literal as you saying that same scenario as what I had with you in that first connection call, where you I said, I am not those four people. However, I am Katie Murray. And this is what I can offer you. And having that level of self-conviction, whether that's as a mother or as a partner or as a friend or in a career or your own damn life, that's what I want for my clients, is for them to fully take their power back and their choice over their own life. And you have come so far in your growth, and also you realize with that strong belief of there is no end point to my growth and my development because you're worth the investment. What are you most excited about for the next 12 months of us working together?

SPEAKER_01 53:48

Fury me. I just loved that. Yeah. The thing that I'm most excited about look, I think that investing in me is the best investment for not only me, but for the rest of the people that I'm connected with. Because what it opens up for me is the opportunity for me to see exactly what is on the other side. So understanding that I've got some big fucking goals.

SPEAKER_02 54:19

Like, and I don't care how delusional they may be, because I'm not most people need a bit more Dululu in their life. In their life.

SPEAKER_01 54:28

Yeah. Exactly. You know, and I think that for the impact that I want to make on this planet and having that thought mindset of yes, I can, and having that available, having all of the resources available to me because it's all within myself is one of the most powerful things that I can give to myself and how I can show up for, you know, other people. It's just the same as like people wanting to invest in, you know, like a gym membership, for instance, or, you know, having having that having that confidence to to walk into a into a gym and pay for a membership and have the flow-on effects of investing in your health. It's it then goes into like, you know what? I'm gonna tell the person that I don't like how that coffee was made. I'm gonna go and tell that person that like I I love your fucking outfit. I'm gonna actually give you an oh I'm I just look at that woman and she, did you see what she was wearing? And like in that woman's mind, she's like, why is that person staring at me? And it's like, well, no, I'm gonna tell her, you look fucking good. Like you look hot. Like, yeah, you know you.

SPEAKER_02 55:57

Oh, thank you. And I was like, no, seriously, lit, like that is, and my kids will be like, oh my god, don't say the word lit, mom. It's really but like I was like, that is a vibe, and if no one else has told you that today, then that's their loss because you are literally lighting up this space. And she was like, Wow. And I was like, Why are we not saying more of that? If you see it, speak it.

SPEAKER_01 56:23

Yeah. Because the person on the other side is right, and that's when we start to get a little bit like, oh, you know, people are looking at me or what do people think about me. And while it's none of my business to know, it could be that inside there, like, fuck, this chick's got like got it together, or this chick's amazing. And if we aren't physically wrapping our arms around people all the time, but like if you if we aren't actually exuding and emitting that kind of, you know, what we want to see in the world of I want to be able to tell you that you're you're beautiful without making that make me feel uncomfortable. But because, you know, that's people pleasing in a wonderful way, or you know, the coffee or um, yeah, investing in yourself, whether, you know, you you're doing coaching or, you know, if you're going to the gym or but the things that it opens up for me is like it's shifted in the way that I present myself. It's shifted in the way that I get up out of bed every day and get ready for the day. How what I wear, what I like the value that I see in myself is what I'm most excited in because I'm so worthy of that. I'm so worthy to move my body, I'm so worthy to dress the way that makes me feel good. And I'm so worthy to have conversations that light me up and make me feel good and connect with people and to love myself and devote to myself. So that's what I'm most excited about is like what the future grows. Yeah, bring on more of that, like loving on myself so that I have more capacity.

SPEAKER_02 57:50

Yeah, yeah. So how can I hold more? And if you could describe this experience of coaching in three words, what would those words be?

SPEAKER_01 58:01

Yeah, so self-actualizing, opportunity, and I'm gonna change what I was thinking and say because I've I've used this word a lot in this in this um recording, and I think it is like devotion, like devotion to to me. Devotion, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 58:19

That's beautiful. Thank you so much for coming on here and having this conversation. It is we could literally talk for hours. Might have you back on the podcast if you're willing, because I just think that so many people will benefit from hearing your story and your experience and be able to see themselves in you. And I want to thank you for the time and the energy that you've put into coming on here today. We did actually have some technical difficulties starting off because I couldn't hear Carissa, which was a problem given that uh she was my podcast guest. And so if the visual looks a bit different, you see it on social media or YouTube. We just asked how we can make this work, and we did it via a different platform. So I am so grateful for your presence in my life, in the work that I do, that you are a mirror to me in regards to constantly leaning in to growth and development, and such a great example of how we could all be a little more audacious in our own lives. So thank you, Carissa. It has been an absolute gift to have you with me today, and I'm sure the listeners will agree.

SPEAKER_01 59:33

Thanks for having me, Katie, and keep being amazing.

SPEAKER_02 59:35

Thanks for spending time with me today on To Our Core. If something landed in your heart or gave you a much needed giggle, consider sharing it with a friend who also may need this as a timely reminder. And go on. You know you want to. Give me a five-star review so that this podcast can land in the ears of many, many more people. Because remember that life is too short to stay on the surface. Keep living, loving, and laughing all the way to your core. Go make life great. And if you want support around this, go to the show notes to find out more. Until next time, I'll meet you back here with more truth, laughter, and a whole lot of heart.