Words, Healing & Self-Expression for South Asian Women

In this episode, Nisha is joined by author and poet, Charni Gill.

Together, we explore what it really means to find your voice as a woman - especially when you’ve grown up without the space to be fully seen, heard or emotionally validated.

This conversation goes beyond surface-level self-expression. We talk about the subtle ways we learn to perform instead of express, dilute our truth to feel safe, and carry the weight of being misunderstood when we finally do speak honestly.

Charni shares how writing can become a powerful tool for self-expression and healing- not as something polished or performative, but as a raw, honest space to process emotions, validate your own experience, and reconnect with your inner voice.

We also explore the role of storytelling, metaphors and poetry in making sense of complex emotions, as well as the importance of breaking cultural silences around topics many women were never encouraged to speak about.

This is a grounded, honest conversation about identity, expression, and what it really looks like to come back to yourself - one word at a time.

As promised here's the earlier episode I mentioned from Season 1 -  Fairytales, Myths + Stories that secretly shape us & our view of the world, as children. 

Keep in touch with Nisha

• Work With Me: Request Your Consultation Call

Keep in touch with Charni

• Instagram 
• Website + Purchase her collection of works here 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to another episode with Minnie Nisha, your host of the Inner Space Podcast. Thank you for joining us again, and if you're new here, welcome. Before we get started, just a quick note. I was really pleasantly surprised this week when I was reviewing the podcast stats with a colleague of mine. And I found out that we've got listeners tuning in from all over the world, from America, Europe, India, even Australia and New Zealand, and it genuinely made me really happy to see so many of you listening across the world. So a huge thank you for being here, for listening and for sharing as well. And if you find these conversations helpful, please do subscribe and share them with anyone that you think might benefit. Okay. Today I'm joined by Chani and we're diving into a really important conversation topic around South Asian women, writing and self-expression. Today we're going to be exploring what it means to find your voice and when you didn't grow up with the space to fully express yourself or have your emotions seen, acknowledged or validated, and how that shapes the way we communicate, the way we show up, and even the way that we understand ourselves. We'll be talking about writing and even reading as tools for self-expression, not from a performative place but as a way of making sense with our internal world and how we see ourselves reflected in stories, metaphors, and language. And how that can also help us access parts of ourselves that we've learned to suppress. Stay tuned to the end because we'll be talking more about journaling as a practice and how you can actually start expressing what you feel in a way that feels natural and not forced. Just to add, I explored a little bit of this topic in an earlier episode in season one where I talk about writing, metaphors, storytellings, fairy tales, and archetypes, and how they shape our perception of the world as we grow from children into adults. I'll link that in the show notes below as well, as it ties in really beautifully with what we're discussing today. So, Chani, you are an author and a poet. Welcome. Thank you for joining the episode today. How are you?

SPEAKER_02 1:56

Thank you. Thank you for having me, Nisham. Good, thank you. How are you?

SPEAKER_01 1:59

Good, good. I'm really well, thank you. This is a pretty important topic, right? We're talking about when your voice wasn't validated and you, as children, learn to self-edit, um, where we don't have to where we weren't where we learn how to filter um ourselves before we learn that it was safe to express. Um yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_02 2:19

I think obviously when your children, um, I think probably that's when we're most expressive. Um, and then obviously, parenting, social conditioning, we learn to censor ourselves in a certain way, uh, what feels appropriate and what sort of social situation, who we speak to what about. All of that sort of evolves as we grow up. Um, and I think sometimes we maybe self-edit, sometimes to even our detriment to the point of suppression, um, where there's just certain things that we won't talk about or won't talk to certain people about. Um, so it's been interesting to have the writing to fall back on as a form of self-expression. Of yes, it's important to find different ways to communicate. Talking definitely has its place in terms of direct communication with other people. Um, but I think writing for me has always been a practice for self-reflection, um, as a means of processing and just getting your ideas down, and almost the same way that you would talk it out with someone, you write it out and you sort of, you know, maybe just process or um sort of deal with the thoughts that you're having or what kind of feelings come up for you, that sort of thing.

SPEAKER_01 3:47

Yeah, I think because when you filter what you have to say, that forms a gap between how you feel and what you want to say. And I think for a lot of people, they live within that gap that they they have an opinion, they have something to be expressed, but it either feels unsafe or they don't feel supported enough to be able to express it. And I think within that, feeling safe and supported is so important developmentally for young girls and boys as well, alike. But it has a huge impact on how they see themselves as an adult. Things like my body don't matter, or I'll just shrink, I won't say much, I'll stay small because I don't know how this is going to be received.

SPEAKER_02 4:23

Yeah, and I think um that self-expression is would probably be appropriate, or in the most healthiest places where you are made to feel safe and secure, and you can talk about anything, and it's not from a judgmental place, it's just just listening, just taking in the information and um hearing someone out. Um, and from a developmental process, yeah, like even even especially when you're young, you do need to be seen, you do need to be heard, you do need to feel like you're being acknowledged, that your your voice or your opinion matters.

SPEAKER_00 5:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:02

Um, and I think, especially as like South Asian girls, we're sort of like socially conditioned, is like raised or in our upbringing to be like quiet and speak when you're spoken to. Um, and so that self-expression isn't really encouraged. Um, it's almost talked about in a way that it's it is a positive thing, and it can be a positive thing, absolutely. Um, but is finding the appropriate places and people to be able to talk um and not sort of shrink yourself in environments. Um, and inevitably the places that you do is because you don't feel as safe or as comfortable as you could be. Um, you know, the same people that are like, I'm really scared of doing this, you put them in a different environment and they're completely flourished because they feel safe, safe enough to make a mistake and not be judged by it or the people around them. And sometimes in different circumstances, they're like, No, I absolutely wouldn't do that. Um, just depends on the context and the environment and the people that they're around.

SPEAKER_01 6:09

Maybe yeah, because these environments feel unsafe. There is a threat there whether they can consciously acknowledge it. Um, and I think it speaks to needing to, and we all have this need to be acknowledged, to be accepted, to belong to something.

SPEAKER_00 6:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:24

And quite often when the environment at home uh growing up doesn't feel safe, we will do anything to fit into that sense of belonging and acknowledgement, whether it is speaking up or not saying anything at all.

SPEAKER_02 6:37

Um yeah, I think there's definitely the difference of safety between talking to people and writing it down is simply that the page doesn't judge you. You can write as much or as little as you want. You don't feel like you're chewing someone's ear off, you don't feel you're not censoring what you're saying or how you're saying it because it needs to be socially appropriate. When you write it down, you write it in its probably its most rawest form. Um and that can be quite cathartic and very therapeutic, and you've got everything down and it's there. And if you still decide that you want to share that with someone, you absolutely can. But sometimes most of the work is in just getting it out, getting it down. Um, and anything that happens after that is is as you deem necessary, whether you whether you think it warrants a conversation, whether you think it needs an extra sort of um an after process, if you like. Um, and I think yeah, the page is always patient, the page has got time for you, the page has got the time, the space, the that sense of acknowledgement, that sense of validation is already there. Um yeah, it can seem like a big deal sometimes. You can deal with big things, you can deal with little things, um, but the process of doing it is exactly the same.

SPEAKER_00 8:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:05

So having that structure, that infrastructure as a means of way of dealing with something, um, I think can be quite a healthy way of dealing with it.

SPEAKER_01 8:15

Yeah, and it's it's multi-layered in that. Sometimes uh some people feel like just need to write to get this out. Other people need to get a step further and talk to somebody, maybe a friend, trusted uh um anybody, really, anyone they trust, even a professional. Um, and then also taking it a step further for some people as well and feeling it in the body as well and the somatic release as well. It's a multi-layered um approach based on what that individual needs.

SPEAKER_02 8:39

Yeah, and it can be one of those things, it can be all of those things, and all of them can run in absolute tandem with each other. Um and I think sometimes people it can take a like one-directional approach of I'm just gonna write, or I'm just gonna focus on therapy, or I'm just gonna do one or the other. And I think it's probably more therapeutic, probably the most healthiest way of approaching it holistically.

SPEAKER_01 9:11

Yeah, yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_02 9:14

And I can speak It's not saying one is better than the other, it's saying they're all they all have their bits, they all do their own thing.

SPEAKER_01 9:21

Yeah, yeah, in the way that we need Yeah. Yeah, in the way that we need, definitely. And I can speak from my personal experience that I use all three.

SPEAKER_00 9:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:30

I have used all three as well. That the journaling for just the evenings when things feel a bit heavier, um, even in my own journey of needing to to go out and get therapy. Um, but then embodying that as well, feeling the the the feeling the emotions to be able to feel it, to heal it as well. And um I think there is a a yeah, I think my hot take for this this uh episode as well is that there is a trap where people can get caught in the I'm journaling, I'm doing this, and this must be helping. I've been told it's helping, and social media says that you just journal and that's your kind of catch-all as a self-reflection. But um I think therapy and even just speaking to other people with a different view and perspective on that.

SPEAKER_02 10:08

Approach, yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_01 10:09

It's so helpful because um they will mirror back, you know. I I say this a lot with my clients that I'm here to walk alongside you, I'm here to hold your hand, but I will also mirror things back to you and your perspective of things, um, just to gently challenge or just to widen um the box in which we live in to offer different uh ways of thinking and seeing things.

SPEAKER_02 10:29

Yeah, and I think as someone who because you practice it actively yourself, um I suppose you have different metrics of measurement of this this needs journaling and this I need to speak to my therapist about, and this needs a somatic release. Like you probably have like a way of distinguishing what those features are. Um, I guess for me, my default has always been writing. That's not to say that I don't talk to family or friends or anything like that about it. As I said, it just depends on what the context of it is about. But yeah, writing is always my default. In my head, it's like once I've written about it, it's processed in a way it's kind of dealt with. That doesn't mean I don't return to those topics or those themes or those ideas or those thought processes, those feelings. Um, I might approach it again at a later point, perhaps in a slightly different way. Um, and then it's always refreshing to see how that changes over time.

SPEAKER_01 11:31

Absolutely. And I like what you said a few moments ago about the page, the page is kind, the page is patient, the page is judgment-free, because um, I think many women communicate in a ways that maintain connection but not true to who they really are.

SPEAKER_02 11:44

So it's that um approval over authenticity, but yeah, it's almost you know, you could even go as far as calling it performative um sometimes, depending on the context and the level of safety that you have with the people and with the people that you're talking to about it. Um yeah, hey, the page doesn't have those issues.

SPEAKER_01 12:08

Yeah, it doesn't have those limitations, those constraints.

SPEAKER_02 12:11

It doesn't have those limitations of yeah, you can write what you what you like, um, it's got time for you, it's got it might not have the answers, but you'll probably get to them yourself if you write about it long enough. Yes. Um, the same way that a therapist would ask you questions to try and unlock a different layer in you, um, writing it out can sometimes do the same thing. Absolutely or you could be mid from a somatic release point of view, you could be mid-exercise mid-way through doing something, and then it occurs to you, you're like, oh hey, this is the thing. It's in my moment of epiphany and it's beautiful because you're like, oh hey, here's the thing that I was looking for.

SPEAKER_01 12:55

Yeah, absolutely. And I think what writing offers is a space to express how you feel, and then you can come back to it and notice. I keep saying this thing in different ways over and over again. What is this? You know, whether you want to highlight it or circle it in a different color pen, and you notice there was something in this, how can you pick this pattern recognition, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:16

I think it's just a written way of doing that, the same way um a therapist might connect the dots with a client, or they do that if they're self-aware enough, they have the ability to do that themselves.

SPEAKER_01 13:28

Yeah, absolutely. And it takes time to train that skill as well. Because when we talk about something, I'm sure you've had this as well. When we we rant and we talk about it and talk and talk and talk, and we're so angry and frustrated about whatever it is. Um we don't have the space to kind of step back and think, oh, hold on a second. It takes time to be able to hone that skill of noticing, oh, I'm looping here, I'm spiraling, I'm just repeating myself. What is underneath all of that that I need to get to to be able to sit with that the crux and the core of what's coming up for me and the way that I'm feeling or the belief that I have and to understand it better?

SPEAKER_02 14:00

Yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_01 14:02

Yeah. So I have a question for for listeners. Um, as as um Chani and I talk about this, what are you expressing that's true for you and what feels safest to say? Because there is a difference within those two things. Right? Expressing what is true for us, um, how we honestly feel about something, versus maybe censoring what we say because it feels safest in that environment.

SPEAKER_02 14:29

Yeah, yeah, I think having that distinguishing uh point, uh yes, it is the same when they're two very different things. Um, and I think writing whatever you want to say is very liberating. Um, and I think from a point of view of it being read or performed or anything like that, um, that has to take a slightly different angle because you have to find a way of making it palatable or rigging the algorithm or however you want to phrase it.

SPEAKER_00 15:06

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 15:07

Um because that's the bit where the you're imagining people's eyeballs on it and how people are going to respond and that sort of thing. And I think when I'm writing, I think those are two different hats. One of them's the writing hat, one of them's the editing hat. Um when I'm writing, I'm writing it in its most truest, rawest form. And then I have the decision afterwards of yes, I need to edit it to hone in on exactly what I want it to say. Is this, you know, the best way I want to say? Is this the best word? Is this the best phrase? Whether that be word by word, line by line, punctuation, like anything, is this the best way that I can say the thing that I've said? Um, and then it's having the decision of okay, would I post it? Um, and that's a vulnerability question that you have to have within yourself of like, would I feel comfortable sharing it? Um, whether that be like across social media or if that was published in a book, um one of the things that I have to think about is if someone was to ask me questions about it, would I feel comfortable answering about them, about those, whatever I've written about? Um, because a lot of my poetry is quite personal. Um, so yeah, it's that whole idea of writing from the wound, not the scar, of your writing about experiences that you've had that you've dealt with, um, and it's okay for you to write about, it's right for you to talk about it. Um writing from the scar is a way of processing it, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's ready to talk about. Um, so it's having those distinguishing points in your own level of comfort and vulnerability of, you know, would I be able to, you know, if I can't talk to my family or my friends about it, um, but would I be okay with saying it to a room full of strangers? You know, where where is your sort of boundary between all of those sorts of things um and finding a way of talking about all of that?

SPEAKER_01 17:22

Yeah, and I I I love what you say there about why writing from the the wound and not the scar. What would that be? Um, could you give us an example of what that might look like in real life? What what is a scar? What is the wound?

SPEAKER_02 17:35

Yeah, so for example, um everyone writes about their own experiences. Um, like if you go to an open mic or something like that, sometimes there's there's poems that are for you, and there's other poems that are for public consumption. And sometimes I think what happens is someone you can write something that is your way of processing, healing, dealing with something. Um, but it can be quite traumatizing for the audience without sort of knowing, and by sort of re-talking about it or sharing that poem, and if you haven't dealt with it or healed with it properly, um then you're sort of re-triggering or re-traumatizing yourself by doing by talking about it or reading it, sharing it, whatever. Um, and if you share that in a public space, um people might want to ask you questions about it, and then it gets really uncomfortable. Um, so it's like letting your art beat article but in a healthy way, both for yourself and for your audience. Um I've written um, like for example, I've written poetry about grief after I lost my grandparents, um, but I had to wait um in a space a certain amount of time till I felt like yeah, okay, I can talk about it now. Um and sometimes it will be even things that have happened a while ago. Um I write write, I don't sometimes I don't write about things raw in the moment. Um sometimes it will take some time, and then when I get to a headspace where I'm like, yeah, okay, I can talk about that now, or it will just come to me quite naturally and I feel comfortable enough to write about it, to talk about it and to share it. Um whereas if I did if I tried to do all of that live in the moment, I'd probably find it too overwhelming. Um and I've never really forced myself to be in a situation where I'm going through a hard thing and I force myself to try and write about it. Um I don't like to do that. I try to keep it as natural as pro as possible. So if it comes to me and I want to talk about it, I will, I'll write about it, I'll post it. If not, then no. And I think it's a great way of honouring yourself and your boundaries and who you are, as well as your your artist and your creativity and honouring the space that in that creation phase as well.

SPEAKER_01 20:18

Yeah, absolutely. And I know um I harp on about this in every episode, but it's about trusting yourself, going with your intuition and what you need. Sometimes we just need to feel the rage and we don't want to write. Maybe we need to hit a pillow a few times to have a good scream or a cry and let everything come out. Other times we might think, I process this enough now, I can put pen to paper and and and allow all these emotions to flow. Um there is a vulnerability um in all of this as well. And what you said about writing from the wound as well, I think um when it's not when the wound hasn't been healed. Yes, it can also then becomes an identity in and of itself for some people.

SPEAKER_00 20:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:59

And that can be um, and there's absolutely no shame or or criticism uh or judgment when I say this, but it can be a tricky place because we're stuck. And I speak from experience where I've um parts of my life I lived in that place for a long time thinking, oh, this just must be it then for me. Realizing there is more to it, there is a healing where it doesn't become our identity.

unknown 21:20

Right?

SPEAKER_01 21:20

A bit like you know, I could say, um, I suppose I did used to say this a lot when I before I became a therapist as a lawyer. Um I it was oh, I'm I'm Nisha, I'm a lawyer. That was my title. The lawyer was my entire identity.

SPEAKER_02 21:34

No, no, yeah, it becomes your whole identity, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 21:38

Um but now I'm Misha, I'm a therapist, I do a group facilitator, I do lots of different things. And my, you know, I'm a dog mum, I um I'm a sister, I'm a daughter, I'm a granddaughter, I'm lots of different things. My title no longer um is my thing. Absolutely. And it's the same with our emotions and and these um feelings that come up as well. We don't live from the wound, we have to live who we are. And that has become that that wound, that pain, that trauma that we've been through, becomes part of our um the the the I guess the tapestry is just a thread that has weaved itself through our life that we hold in our heads.

SPEAKER_02 22:11

Yeah, and I I think part of it is the way we identify with ourselves, but then it also becomes the label that other people will refer to you as. Yes. And then uh when I get when I decide that I'm gonna write for a little bit, I'll revisit all of those ideas and I'll handwrite whatever that is. Um sometimes I edit as I go along or after I've after I've written all of it. And the other part of that process is I'll digitalise that. So after I've written it, I will type it. So it's another form of getting to edit it again. Of am I really happy with it like that? Um just doing like another check through. And then when I get to the point that I want to post it or I want to publish it, then um I'll revisit it again and then be like, yeah, this is the poem I want to post today, and that's that's what will go out. Um, when I'm working on like a creative project, um, then it will be the case of um, you know, would I want it in a book, like a poetry collection, or would I, you know, if there's something else that I'm working on, if it's a big part of a bigger, broader project, how would that fit in? Um, that sort of thing.

unknown 25:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:07

And I love it.

SPEAKER_02 25:08

That's my sort of process.

SPEAKER_01 25:09

Oh yeah, yeah. I love what you say about putting pen to paper, because I think that's such uh it's it's really lost its um importance. Yes, art over the years. Everything has become digitalized, and yeah, we, you know, I just think there is something really beautiful. And I think was it I watched a short clip, I think it was an actress. It wasn't Hannah, is it Hannah Waddingham? Who was it? I remember watching a clip of this actress, and she said that there was something, Emma Thompson, I think it was, and she said there was something so important that happens when you put pen to paper. You can't just type things out. I mean, you can, but it's the process of letting your your mind engage with your hand and what you're writing and the feel of the poem. And I think, especially for for um our generations and generations above as well, putting that pen to paper is cathartic, it's very uh nostalgic as well, but there is an importance behind that process in and of itself that has to be on it.

SPEAKER_02 26:11

I think because we live in a very technological, digital-based, quite fast-paced lifestyle, there are a few quote unquote analogue things that I hold very dear. And re writing pen to paper, what would what you know some people would consider old school, um, is one of those things I will still read, I will still read physical books. Um, and again, from like a cognitive perspective as well, like you you you you take in more information when you're reading it physically than when you do if you were to read it as a like an ebook or on your tablet or anything like that. Um, and I'm the same with writing. I feel like when I from an understanding point of view, when I'm note-taking or I write things down by hand myself, I take that information on so much more than if I was to sat there typing away. And I know there's loads of research and studies on this, but I found that to be true for myself. Um, but I guess for the next generation who've grown up with the technology first, um, that's their ultimate default. Um, and so you know, right and writing and doing all things like that does seem a bit old school for them.

SPEAKER_00 27:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:31

But those are certain like traditions, rituals, you know, that I I still hold very dear, and I think they're very important. And in some like I don't I don't know how you want to phrase it, but it you know, it's like it's being a writer, you have to write like it's it's it is very it feels like you're being a writer when you're sitting there writing away and you've got notebooks and notebooks of stuff.

SPEAKER_00 27:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:58

Um, and you know, yeah, I'm a bookworm because I have a whole library full of books. Um, and it doesn't take away from a writer who writes on a laptop or a computer or anything like that.

SPEAKER_00 28:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:11

The same way you're still a reader if you read on like a if you listen to an audiobook or if you read via ebook, you're still a reader. I'm not saying that, but it's just in its truest ultimate form, that is the art of the way that it was done. And I think it's I still find that process very helpful.

unknown 28:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:32

And we have to honour it as well, because um, I mean, I even I feel as a consumer to some degree, and a reader um and an author as well, there is I have an obligation to buy a book. We have to keep this alive for as long as possible. I love writing cards and letters, like it's just so wholesome. And I know my inner child, she absolutely loves it as well. But there is you know, something about going to the bookshop, picking up a tangible book. You know, I love bringing it back. I will highlight books, and I know some people think this is really controversial, but I'll highlight, I'll I'll make notes, I'll tap it up, I will destroy the spine of that book. Yeah, I will absolutely destroy the spine of that book because I mean it it's it's the process for me. Yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_02 29:16

I mean, I'm I'm the same. Like, for example, I I since I was since I was a kid, I've been very lucky that I've grown up 10 minutes from our local library. Um, and I that I've been going to that local library since I was about six or seven, and as many books I was allowed to take out on my library card, I would, and I'm still like that even as an adult. Um, but and I I cannot take away how much that was such a contributing factor in me, a developing that love of reading when I was a child, and then secondly, becoming the writer that I am now today, because I've had the access to be able to do that. Um and that is like I'm so grateful that that's been such a big part of my life.

SPEAKER_01 30:07

Yeah, yeah. And I I think growing up, I mean, I always enjoyed reading, but I didn't see the value of things like the storytelling and metaphors until I became much older. You know, things like the Aesop's fables and the Lady Bird books, and just taking a moment to just think about all these stories that we grew up with. I saw something came up on Instagram um a few days ago, and it was like you ever see those reels that crop up, and it's like the nostalgia of the 90s. And the books, the Biff and Chip books.

SPEAKER_02 30:34

I used to love it, and I was just I had to take a moment to think, oh my goodness, the the magic of those books as a kid and spot the dog, but yeah, and you know, um let me click at books. They still have that those warmth and that magic and all of those things that you loved as a kid, they're all still there, and I think you know, a lot of those children's books do have those moral messages, the yes, all of these things that you don't really appreciate until you get older. Um, and then you you know, you you do have a different level of appreciation when like no, Dr. Zeus really did tell us everything that we need to know. Um, we just didn't understand it at the time because we just thought it was a fun rhyme.

SPEAKER_01 31:19

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 31:20

But yeah, like But we feel it through the stories, don't we?

SPEAKER_01 31:23

The language through the story, the imagery, the process, anything that you can do. Or we don't understand, or it's overwhelming for us as children. We unconsciously we see ourselves in that character or in something, and that might shape why we do like a book or why we don't.

SPEAKER_02 31:40

Yeah, and I think part of one of the greatest things that reading gives you is the empathy because you're putting yourself, particularly in storytelling, um, you're putting yourself in circumstances, maybe worlds that you wouldn't know of, people that you wouldn't perhaps be able to meet in real life. You put yourself in all of these circumstances and put yourself in that person's shoes and navigate your world through that character's life, whatever they're going through. So, yeah, the biggest thing that you develop is empathy, um, and that becomes your sort of superpower as you get older and navigating the world in as as we get older. Um, but it's it's like encompassing all of that in a book, which sounds crazy that you know someone's developed a world in 80,000 in 80,000 words, and um apparently we play a big part of it because we're able to imagine it and do all of those things. And even if you know it's not fiction-based and you're not into storytelling, um, there's so many different genres, so much, so much diversity in what you can read that all of it has its place in helping you to understand all of those types of things, how to navigate life, what to deal, how to deal with things, developing you as a person.

SPEAKER_01 33:06

Yeah, and the wisdom that comes with it, and how we can then improve ourselves as well, because it's it's never just a story, right? We'll resonate with something because we see ourselves in it as well, you know, especially things like the the Disney princesses and the fairy tales, right? We have these like archetypal figures within that space as well. So, and this is what I talked more about in my other episode, but it's just it's so uh still so fascinating to me. I don't think I'm ever gonna kind of get over it. And I to be honest, I hope I don't because there is a magic in it.

SPEAKER_02 33:35

Definitely, and it's the magic that we don't want to lose that innocence of childhood, yeah, and the limitless thinking and the freedom and the joy that comes with all of that. Yeah, that as we got older, we sort of have to be a bit more realistic and sensible and you know reasonable and adult and all that boring. Yeah, it loses all of that. It loses all of that. If you've grown up on books and Disney and Bollywood films, yeah, your what your expectations of life are very different than someone who doesn't, um, but we don't necessarily acknowledge that in the same way. Um but yeah, it just um is creating that platform and that foundation for what we what we build on and how we grow.

SPEAKER_01 34:26

Yeah. Um I'm curious, what were your favourite books growing up? I'd say under under 14, what were your yeah?

SPEAKER_02 34:34

I mean, um all of those books that we we've talked about already. Ladybird books, the fables, the fables, uh Aesop. Yeah, yeah, uh Biff Chip and Kipper books, yeah, um, Spot the Dog, Elma, The Rainbow Fish, The Hungry Caterpillar, all of the Dr. Zeus books, um, yeah, all of the Roll Doll books.

SPEAKER_00 35:02

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 35:02

Um, Harry Potter came out while we were still young children, so we saw all of that live. Um, which I think is a bit mad when you think about it now. That like, you know, The Order of the Phoenix came out when I was in like year five, but it's just little things like this. Um uh yeah, so all of the Narnia books. Yeah, um, yeah, you sort of grow up with all that magic and fantasy.

SPEAKER_00 35:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:33

Um, and that really taps into, like I said, that childhood innocence and um that freedom to yeah, even from Peter Pan, like all of the Disney books, the films, um, just escapism, basically it's just escapism.

SPEAKER_01 35:50

Yeah, in a way that we see ourselves and we can resonate with that character as well. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Are there any stories, books, or metaphors that have helped you understand yourself differently? Anything that's given you a new perspective on things?

SPEAKER_02 36:09

Um, I think there's always things that you return to, either consciously or unconsciously, things just happen like that.

SPEAKER_00 36:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:16

Uh, like for example, one of my favourite films is Rocky. Um, and I won't go out of my way to watch them, but by I don't know, the universe deciding I need to see a clip or a certain bit when I'm going through something, yeah. Um, it will I'll just come across it, I'll turn the TV on and it'll be on. It'll be one of the films, it will be exactly what I need to see. Yeah, um, or you'll have a memory of something and it will just sort of trigger it back to that that point. Um, and I think there's always things like that that you can return to. Um, Harry Potter has always been a like a home comfort, so it's a Christmas marathon, but there's I think even as you get older, there's always certain things that you learn as you get older. Things change and evolve and you take things in differently. Um but yeah, there's always things that you come back to.

SPEAKER_01 37:11

Yeah. And I wonder if that's even more magical for you as a published author as well, because you've written three books.

SPEAKER_02 37:18

Yeah, so I've written three three poetry collections. So this is my first one called Impression. Impression, yeah. Uh that was my lockdown baby. And this one is called For the Moment, which is um life poetry. And my my latest one, Pray Tell, is a book about like faith and spirituality. So, yeah, three three poetry collections, very different topics and themes, but they're sort of chronicling, I guess, different areas of my life. And yeah, just I guess amalgamating all of those experiences and putting them into a book.

SPEAKER_01 37:57

Yeah, yeah. Okay, so let's talk a bit more about um the wisdom then behind writing, because things like journaling is uh something we we can do for ourselves. And I always say to my clients, if you've never journaled before and you'd like to start, make it a ritual. There's something really important, I think significant but magical as well. About take yourself out to a nice bookstore or even Smith, get yourself a nice notebook or a journal, pick yourself out a nice fancy pen, make it something you can remember, something that way you can say this is where my journey really began, where I was able to sit with myself and express how I feel and honour myself and the pages on which I wrote. So journaling doesn't need structure, it doesn't need prompts, it doesn't always need perfect wording, right? It's about the honesty of it, not presentation. So I always say, um, go with what feels right for you, go with your intuition. It can be keywords, it can be long essays, it can be something in between as well. Um, I also with people that are artists as well, so I'd recommend bringing your like your natural gifts, bring in your creative side if you want to draw something. I like I love scrapbooking and journaling and um collaging things. So I'll always, if I feel like I need to let something um out onto the page, I'll grab a whole, you know, I'll grab my journaling stuff and I'll just sit there and get my glue stick out and you know, put all these different things on a page. And there's very few words, but it speaks volumes about how I'm feeling, right?

SPEAKER_02 39:24

Yeah, I mean the point is it's expression, isn't it? So in whichever way resonates most with whatever you're trying to say.

SPEAKER_01 39:33

Absolutely. And nothing to get right, but a space where you can be as messy as you want, as unclear, but you're still unfiltered. Yeah. And I think even a few lines, just again, it doesn't have to be this whole like dear diary, today I did this, this and this. Just a few lines about how you felt. So that just to bring it back to yourself and connecting with yourself as well. And that's that's really where we want to be. It's how do I feel about it? I want to be angry, then that's fine. I can honor myself and being angry with this, or I want to feel really sad, that's okay. Because when we talk about regulating emotions, it's not that we have to be regulated that everything has to be perfect and we can't feel anything, it's about how we want to feel, being able to honor our emotions is a way of self-regulating, not what other people expect from us instead.

SPEAKER_02 40:22

Yeah, definitely. I mean, there's so many different things. Journaling is obviously a great way, but it doesn't necessarily have to be the only way. If you are a more traditional deer diary, this happened, that happened, you know, you can outline a list of activities, tasks, how you felt about them, what was running through your head, that kind of thing. Yeah, but it can also be just um, you know, just asking yourself like some journals do have prompts and you can answer it accordingly. But sometimes it can even be just answering like asking yourself really hard questions, um, the same way that a therapist might challenge you to think about something in a particular way.

SPEAKER_00 41:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:04

Um I guess from a writing perspective, sometimes you get writing prompts, and you know, you can use that as a way of explaining how you're feeling, or you know, what happened today, or anything like that. Um, I've also found in regards to other art forms, sometimes like a clip from a TV show or a film that just really it could be like one line or one particular moment in um, I don't know, a character development point of view where something happened and you're like, I literally feel like this, or like that that sort of thing is that level of like that's how much I resonate with this, and it could be completely unrelated, or whatever it is, the context could be completely different, yeah. But it's from a from a like an emotional validation point of view, I suppose you could say that it's like this feels like that is that level to to that extent. Um, but you know, it's the same with like um having a gratitude practice. Um, I think if you are gonna make the decision, like I'm maybe it's just my inner writer of like I want to get a really nice notebook, and you know, you're gonna write with your fancy pen because it's having that novelty, and that's the thing that makes it special, yeah. Of you know, um going out and buying the nice notebook and making the active choice to be, yeah, I'm gonna write about you know, three things that I'm grateful for every day, yeah. Or you know, three three widths or three things that you found really challenging, that sort of thing. Um, just as a way of slight sort of processing.

SPEAKER_01 42:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:58

Sorry.

SPEAKER_01 43:00

Um, and even what you say about the the gratitude journaling as well, it can be big things, it can be small things. You know, some of mine are really simple things, like I'm just so grateful. I found this like amazing rose and lemon tea. Yeah, and it's my favorite tea, but I'm really grateful because it gives me that that pocket of peace, it gives me that moment where I can really just sit and ground myself. Other times I will be grateful for my home, I'll be grateful for family for so much of the bigger things, but not taking the smaller things for granted as well, because they are what makes life special. Like you say, it's a novelty, but there is a magic within it as well.

SPEAKER_02 43:34

Yeah, and I think like I did uh a gratitude practice for a month. Um, and so you do you do you are grateful for the big things, you're grateful for the small things, but it's also finding new ways of being grateful for sometimes the same things.

SPEAKER_00 43:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:51

Um, you'll be surprised at like at the end of the month, I looked at what are the things that I was grateful, like what were the most common things that came up. And you know, I think one of them was slow mornings of not having that rush of and you know, like and it wasn't until I did that whole practice for a month of like just all these small things that sometimes that we take for granted that you're like, okay, I need to find a way of embedding this a little bit more regularly um across your routine, of like just getting a bit of respite somewhere in your day. Um you know, if you can do it as often as you can, great. Um, but it's just finding that balance of yeah, you do enjoy those things, but then it's a balance of the frequency and how long you do it for.

SPEAKER_01 44:43

And in a way that works for you as well, not just doing it because someone and you know some influencer told you you've got to do it three times a day and you have to be super great, you know, because then it becomes a forced exercise and there's there's nothing genuine.

SPEAKER_02 44:54

It's also performative, yeah, yeah. Yeah, like you're you're you're saying you're thankful for this because and I think this is the danger of sometimes the flip side of doing it for too long. Um, because you have to write something, you'll write anything, because you can be grateful for anything, um, and but it's it it's not on list, and what I mean by that is it doesn't come from the heart, it it's not heartfelt at all, it's just it might be it might as well be a list of material things, but you know, arguably sometimes when you're short of ideas, you're like, I'm just grateful for this, I'm grateful, and you can be grateful for all of those things, but you don't genuinely feel it, and I think it becomes a head exercise and not a heart exercise, yes, so it's you have to keep it honest, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:46

And let's make it honest, we'll make it heartfelt. Yeah, wow. Well, this has been such an important conversation because self-expression isn't just about the communication, it's about our identity, our self-trust, and how safe you feel to be seen as you are. If anything resonated with you in this episode, you're very welcome to reach out. I'll leave my details below. Um, and I currently have a couple of spaces available for one-to-one work, and I'll be starting my workshops very soon. These workshops aren't group therapy, but instead they're focused on the emotional education that many of us needed but never received. They build on exactly what we've spoken about today in our conversation: learning how to understand yourself, feel validated from within, and express yourself in a way that feels true to you. And if you would like to connect with Janny and learn more about her work and her incredible poetry journey, um, I will leave her details in the show notes below as well as a link for her website and her poetry collections itself as well. Um, and you can also watch the full video of this episode on YouTube and follow along for Instagram. Again, I'll leave these in the show notes below. If you found this episode helpful, don't forget to follow, share, and send it to somebody who might need to hear it. Thank you so much for being part of this conversation. It's been honestly really cathartic and just really important to me as well. So thank you.

SPEAKER_02 47:06

Thank you so much for having me. Thanks.