Episode 36: The Blame Game - Moving from Finger-Pointing to Connection

Humans are wired to make meaning out of what happens to us, so when something feels bad, we go looking for a reason (in an effort to avoid it next time). In relationships, that search often turns into blame…which devolves into criticism instead of the actual result we're hoping for.

In this episode, Dr. Rebecca Howard Eudy (relationship & sex therapist) and Dr. Alex DiGrado (pelvic floor physical therapist) explain why blame and anger are usually secondary emotions covering something else underneath, and how naming that feeling gets you closer to real accountability and change than pointing fingers ever will.

Dr. Rebecca also shares how this all shows up with her own kids, plus a personal update on 40 days of yoga nidra that's changed how she handles the heated moments.

What you'll learn:

• Humans being “meaning makers” is a survival instinct that sometimes goes awry.
• The difference between truly taking responsibility…and just taking the blame to keep the peace.
• Vulnerability will always get you further than blame.
• Kids learn to stop blaming each other by watching us take accountability

Tune in if you've ever thought:

• "Why do I get so defensive the second something comes up? Am I just being too sensitive?”
• "My kid blames everyone else for their behavior. Is that normal?"
• "Why is it so hard to talk about how I feel instead of what they did wrong?" 

Helpful resources:

• Find a pelvic floor PT near you: pelvicrehab.com or Pelvic Global Directory
• Parents in Love: A Guide to Great Sex After Kids by Dr. Rebecca Howard Eudy 
• Learn more about Ali Schmidt's yoga nidra practice; check her out on Insight Timer; and listen to our UTH podcast episode with Ali here! 

Connect with us:

Dr. Rebecca Howard Eudy
Website: rebeccaeudy.com
Instagram: @rebeccahowardeudy
Newsletter: Parents in Love Substack

Dr. Alexandra DiGrado
Website: bostonpelvicpt.com
Instagram: @bostonpelvicpt
Newsletter: Under the Hood

Under the Hood Podcast
Instagram: @underthehooddocs
Website: underthehoodpod.com

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:02

Welcome to Under the Hood. I'm Dr. Alex DeGrotto, your pelvic floor physical therapist. And I'm Dr. Rebecca Howard Uti, your sex and relationship therapist.

SPEAKER_01 0:14

Hi, everyone. Hi, Rebecca.

SPEAKER_02 0:16

Hi, Alex.

SPEAKER_01 0:17

I am excited for this topic. There's so much for me to learn about this, and it's something that I work on. I'm a student. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 0:25

Student of it myself, Alex.

SPEAKER_01 0:26

And so the subject today is blame. Oh, yeah, blame. And relationships. And also, I think it was so helpful earlier this morning when you said that it's part of the human condition, that this is what we do as humans. We try we're meaning makers. We are, yeah. And so can you explain to those listening a little bit what that actually means?

SPEAKER_02 0:42

Yeah. So humans are meaning makers. It's a survival, right? Okay. We we want to be able to make sense of our world. Yeah. We're thinking creatures. Yep. And so one of the ways that we make sense of the world that makes us safe is when we identify something that doesn't feel good, that didn't work well. We try to figure out why.

SPEAKER_03 1:04

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:04

And so that's a good thing. Yeah. And also in relationships, we often that often comes across as blame.

SPEAKER_01 1:14

I see.

SPEAKER_02 1:15

And blame usually lands wrong. Yes. It lands as criticism or, you know, I told you so. Yeah. It's not a relational.

SPEAKER_01 1:27

And it and it doesn't get us the outcome that we desire.

SPEAKER_02 1:30

It definitely doesn't. The outcome that we desire when we blame is we want the person that we're in relationship with or ourselves too. I mean, a lot of times people who are big blamers of other people are also blaming themselves. Yeah. Blame and shame. And what we really want is for the person that we're in relationship with to change their behavior. Yes. We want them to understand what happened so it doesn't continue happening. That's going to make us feel more safe. It's going to get us the outcome that we want. And so it comes from this place of really trying to have things be different.

SPEAKER_01 2:07

Okay. But and kind of wanting that person to take accountability, sort of for their actions. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 2:13

That's exactly right. But what ends up happening is when we either, whether it's in our relationship with ourselves, where we blame ourselves, or when we blame our partner, usually what the what comes up that what we're met with is defensiveness. Yes, of course. Right. And defensiveness is shame. No, no, no, no, no. I didn't do that. I don't want you to think that of me. And shame and anger go really closely together. Yeah. Um, and so it it really almost never gets us what we want. Interesting. Which is accountability. Yes. And behavior change, virtually.

SPEAKER_01 2:47

Yeah. And this is just making me realize that even the blame in the first place is so that we ourselves don't have to be taking accountability for whatever happened. Yeah, that's true. Right? So it kind of starts starts there. It's like, oh gosh, I can't be the one that yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 3:01

And it even on like a very basic accountability level, it gets us out of being accountable for our own feelings.

SPEAKER_01 3:10

True. Wow, yes, so true. Right?

SPEAKER_02 3:12

So if I say you did this thing, that did this, or whatever. Yeah, you made me feel this way, it's like we're just piling it onto somebody else. Yes. When really the the way that the the antidote to blame is being more vulnerable. Saying, you know, you it really hurt my feelings when you said that. Yeah. I'm sure you didn't mean to. But it really, it really made me feel better. Yeah. And that, it's like God, yeah. No, I feel like, I mean, even when I just said that, I was like, Yeah, same.

SPEAKER_01 3:42

I was like, I don't know that I could say that. Yeah, I'm not sure that I would be able to. Yeah, that's hard.

SPEAKER_02 3:47

It's hard. It's hard. And so, and so we blame, and so we, you know, we ask other people to take accountability.

SPEAKER_01 3:55

But in a way that doesn't really encourage them to do so.

SPEAKER_02 3:59

No, it's a tough I mean, sometimes it works. Sometimes it does. If we're in a relationship with someone who has done some work themselves, who's pretty comfortable. Sometimes if we say it in the right way, you know, it doesn't never work.

SPEAKER_01 4:14

So that's what I was gonna ask you. Is there a way? Like it sounds like maybe this is adjacent to constructive criticism or something.

SPEAKER_02 4:19

Yeah, I mean, there there is a way. You know, it's if we just follow everything, no, right. That's not good either. But I think one of the traps with blame is that every once in a while it knows a little bit better. Whether it's because we say it a little bit differently or whether it's because the person that we're in relationship with is having a day where they're really have a little bit more capacity and they can kind of meet us with seeing our underneath with total compassion, our underneath message. Or maybe sometimes what we say just really lands and the person's able to say, Wow, yeah, no, I did do that. But that's really what we want, I think, when we blame is for the person that we're in relationship with to say, Oh God, you're right.

SPEAKER_01 5:06

Yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_02 5:07

I'm so sorry, I won't do that to you again.

SPEAKER_01 5:10

And so what can we do instead of blaming the person?

SPEAKER_02 5:14

Well, we can start because a lot of times blame it's like an immediate reaction where we feel angry.

SPEAKER_01 5:22

Yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_02 5:23

You know, and so if it comes out of anger, you're probably gonna get a defensive reaction back. But we can start by getting curious with ourselves about what's under the anger. You know, anger is a very important and valid emotion.

SPEAKER_03 5:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:40

A lot of people are very uncomfortable with anger. It feels unsafe.

SPEAKER_01 5:44

It's you know, especially for women who've been conditioned not to feel it. Yes, exactly. So it's like an inappropriate feeling. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:50

So a lot of people are uncomfortable with anger. So I'm not trying to minimize the importance of anger. It's very important. But it is a secondary emotion. I see. So usually, and what I mean by that is usually there's something underneath it. Yeah, like hurt. Yeah. Heart. Exactly. That's a great example of often what's underneath it. Shame oftentimes is underneath anger. You know, all kinds of different things. This is so interesting because it's bringing disappointment.

SPEAKER_01 6:14

The thought of like perfectionism, you know. Yeah, scared.

SPEAKER_02 6:17

All of these can come out of anger. Why is it bringing up perfectionism?

SPEAKER_01 6:22

Just thinking about, I think, well, I was t saying about one of my kids who blames literally anyone and everything for any problem that's a good thing. It's a tough watch, isn't it? Yes. And so then I am like, take accountability as a s as if a six-year-old would understand what on earth I'm saying.

SPEAKER_02 6:38

Even yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:38

Yeah. But you know, you're blaming the dog who's 12 feet away, and it's like just it just is too scary to have it be on you. Yeah. And really what you're saying is actually what's scary is the feeling underneath it. That's right.

SPEAKER_02 6:51

Yeah, it is. And so I think that for kids, we can help them to practice this by really lowering the cost of failure. Okay, people make mistakes. Yes. It's okay. We can show them that by taking accountability for our own mistakes truly and truly. Like the mistakes that we make that we feel really bad about, taking accountability, genuinely apologizing to kids.

SPEAKER_01 7:14

So that's this is like that whole rupture and repair, right? Which seems fairly new.

SPEAKER_02 7:18

Well, blame comes from a rupture.

SPEAKER_01 7:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:21

We blame because we've felt like someone's ruptured with us.

SPEAKER_01 7:24

Yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_02 7:25

And they don't know.

SPEAKER_01 7:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:26

And we want them to know.

SPEAKER_01 7:27

Yeah, totally. And that's what you were saying earlier about like making meaning about things. You know, we're trying to sort through why did this happen.

SPEAKER_02 7:34

Right.

SPEAKER_01 7:35

And it's too scary for it to be our fault.

SPEAKER_02 7:37

Yeah, it is. It is really scary for it to be our fault. And so, you know, the other thing, especially with kids, that we can do is we can help them to name the feeling.

SPEAKER_03 7:45

So when they say, the dog, blah, blah, blah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:50

Freya, that was your fault. And I'm like, what? Yeah, she's like way over. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah. So saying it's not the dog's fault, take accountability is so relatable. I mean, I do that too. And not that helpful. No, not helpful. Then you get the angry reaction they did in. Yes, 100%. It makes it so much worse. You're blaming them for the thing. Yes, exactly, yes, behavior. So one of the things that I've found to be helpful with my own kids is to have compassion for the emotion underneath and sometimes to help them to name it. So, oh, it's so disappointing that that just you know, that that thing that you really wanted to eat, or that fell on the floor and now it's so disappointing. Yeah. Oh, I'm sorry that happened. Like, so trying to name whatever interesting might be underneath as opposed to responding to the blaming behavior, because the blaming behavior, it's it, I mean, it's kids do it because they see us do it, but they do it because it feels really natural. Yes, of course, right. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 8:50

Like you were saying, it's a human condition. We all do it. Yeah. Yeah. And so is frustration so is there an underlying like earlier when you said about the anger being a secondary emotion, I've never even heard of primary and secondary emotions. So is frustration even an emotion?

SPEAKER_02 9:06

I don't know. Yeah, it is definitely. I have a feelings wheel. Yes, I need to see it. I need to see the wheel. It's I know. The pillow. Yeah, it's in downstairs. Okay. Yeah, when Lee and I were in couples therapy, I got it for him because I thought he could use a little bit of help identifying emotions.

SPEAKER_01 9:23

Can I interject for a second? Growing up, we would joke that when we would ask my dad how he was feeling, and this is true. This is what he would say. How do you feel? He would either say hungry or thirsty.

SPEAKER_03 9:34

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:34

Yes. And so that was a running joke in our house because it was like, what do you mean? You know, hungry or thirsty.

SPEAKER_03 9:40

Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:41

Maybe tired. But those that was the extent.

SPEAKER_02 9:45

None of those listeners are feelings.

SPEAKER_01 9:48

And so, yes, I need the wheel. Yeah. I need the wheel.

SPEAKER_02 9:51

It's it's extensive. Okay. So this is a total aside, but I bought this pillow and and also recommend it to all of my clients. It's like the pillow comes out a lot. I say, how does that make you feel? And they say, Let me just get my pillow. And I'll tell you every single time it happens, the partner of this person who's using the pillow is like, Yes, oh my gosh, look, right? Because then they come out with something that's super legit.

SPEAKER_01 10:19

They're like, wow, that is.

SPEAKER_02 10:22

Oh, I felt insecure.

SPEAKER_01 10:23

And then you're like, They have so much compassion.

SPEAKER_02 10:25

One hundred percent. So the pillow natur actually never made it up to my office, even though that was the intended place for it. Because my kids, when it came in the house, they spent about two weeks acting out every emotion. I love it. I need to get it. I need to get it. But I'm gonna get it. So to answer your question, frustration, yes, absolutely is an emotion. Okay. It tends to be a very strong emotion. We see it in kids a lot. Yeah, right. Level of frustration that the kids have. But usually it is a secondary emotion. So underneath might be something like inadequate or disappointed, or, you know, there's something that's that's deeper. Yeah. Right. Usually underneath anger and frustration, but they are perfectly valid emotions. And a lot of times what we end up seeing is when people allow themselves to naturally move through their emotions, they may start with something like anger or frustration. It's like their first sort of like whoosh of the feeling. And then once they start expressing that feeling, then they might start crying.

SPEAKER_01 11:31

Yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_02 11:33

You know, it's like something else underneath it.

SPEAKER_01 11:36

Wow. I think because I have noticed, you know, if my therapist is saying, you know, how are you feeling? I I struggle. You know, how does that make you feel? And I'm like, can you just tell me the answer? You know, please. Just tell me the answer.

SPEAKER_02 11:48

Don't you know? Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:49

I'm like, I know you're trying to get at something. Can you just tell it to me? Because I don't know what to tell you, you know. And I so I definitely clearly I need this wheel.

SPEAKER_02 11:56

Yeah. It's super helpful. Yeah. It's got a lot of words on it.

SPEAKER_01 11:59

And I would love to teach my kids the nuance of those different feelings so that way it's less scary because then you understand what's happening and you can kind of ride the wave and flow through it.

SPEAKER_02 12:07

Yeah. And so the good thing about this is that when we have access to more of our feelings, yeah. And and the feeling wheel pillow too, it's like sometimes we really genuinely do feel really pissed. Yeah. That is what we feel. Yeah. And it's only once we give ourselves the chance to slow down and say, okay, yes, I am really angry. Just because anger or frustration is a secondary emotion, it doesn't mean it's not a valid emotion.

SPEAKER_03 12:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:38

But when we slow down, and one of the ways that looking at the feel wheel is helpful is that it is like lets us consider what else is there, then we do start to take accountability for it. Just noticing is taking accountability.

SPEAKER_01 12:54

And then it gives you a chance to respond instead of react.

SPEAKER_02 12:56

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 12:57

Sort of kind of choose what you're going to as opposed to just an outburst, essentially.

SPEAKER_02 13:03

Yeah. And the thing with the blaming is you're talking all about behavior. Yeah. You talk all about what somebody else did that made you feel a certain way. But a lot of times uh when we're when we're deep into our blame cycle, we're not even talking really about what we feel. We might say, you made me feel so, you made me so mad when you did that, or you hurt me when you did that. But it's not, we're not really connected with what we felt, yeah. Because we're talking about what someone else did.

SPEAKER_03 13:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:38

And we but what we want is for them to be impacted enough by what we're telling them that they won't do it to us again. But in order for us to expect people to be impacted by us, is we have to allow them to know that they impact us. Right. And so if I were to say to you, which is more vulnerable. Way more vulnerable. Way more vulnerable to say, you know, when you did that thing, it really made me feel so insecure. Right. I worried that you didn't love me anymore. Like that's like, whoa. Yes. Yikes. Yeah, totally. But genuinely, it it may be underneath there. Those are typically the type of deeper feelings that are. Yeah. And I'm not I'm not expecting that people would go and do this and like work or like a certainly not. No, this is for your deepest intimate, most intimate relationships. Yes. Whom we tend to blame the most.

SPEAKER_01 14:34

Yeah, right. Exactly. Which I do feel, you know, you see all the the advice, you know, this is the person that you're supposed to treat the best. But I don't think that's what maybe typically happens all the time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:46

Well, it's emotionally charged. And when when we have relationships that mean a lot that are emotionally charged, then we really, you know, it it's hard. It's it's hard to be clear about how we actually feel. Yes. Because we feel angry, we feel frustrated, we feel, we feel, we feel. And one of the things that I will often work with clients on is can we be okay with not just feeling one thing?

SPEAKER_03 15:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:17

We don't have to identify the emotion that we feel. Because a lot of times we might feel all of the things at once. You know, I feel frustrated with you that you did that. I feel hurt that you did that. I feel conflicted about telling you that I feel like I it's so many layers of feelings. And so if we were to accurately describe what we felt about something in any given time. Right.

SPEAKER_01 15:44

There's a lot there.

SPEAKER_02 15:45

There's a lot there.

SPEAKER_01 15:46

And also it's the person that we care so deeply about. So, you know, underneath it all is that love that you have for that person. So that's also kind of coloring because they can hurt you the most because you love them the most.

SPEAKER_02 15:58

Yes, that's exactly right. Yeah. They really impact you. And a lot of times we try to protect ourselves a little bit. We try to protect ourselves a little bit by going with anger as opposed to what else is under.

SPEAKER_01 16:12

Oh, yeah. But I would see that the true underlying feeling would be much more effective because they love you too. You know, so then they're saying, Oh, gee, I certainly wouldn't want you to feel like that, you know?

SPEAKER_02 16:25

Yeah, but when we come at them with blame, it is not that. Not that usually. Yeah. I mean, it takes a lot. It takes a lot.

SPEAKER_01 16:34

When someone comes at you with blame, you know, occasionally we're able to do it. Like I have an easy time with my kids, you know, when Tess is like, I hate you, you're the worst mom in the world. I know that that is not true and that there's a lot of hurt underneath that. And and, you know, she's trying to figure out, she's trying to flesh out like, you know, or maybe even have me feel the feeling that she's feeling, you know, underneath it all, you know. As opposed to me being, you know, taking it personally. I I don't.

SPEAKER_02 17:01

Yeah, you don't take it personally.

SPEAKER_01 17:03

No.

SPEAKER_02 17:03

You're able to more able to help her grow. Yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 17:08

Yes, totally. And figure out and get to. That's right. Exactly. That she just needs a hug. Yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_02 17:15

Which is very vulnerable. Totally. To come up and say to someone, I really just need to just need a hug.

SPEAKER_01 17:20

So you start, you know, there. Yeah. For some reason with kids, because we're watching them develop and evolve, at least, you know, it seems a little easier for me to help help her.

SPEAKER_02 17:29

Although I do have to say I also have had the experience where my kids come at me real hot and heavy with the anger or the blame or the, you know, the the emotional contagion is definitely a thing that sometimes it is easy to help them go down through the layers. Wow, you're really feeling a lot less like, you know, sticking with them through that. Oh, yeah. And then usually it does end up in tears or wanting a hug or whatever. But other times it it is easy to get also dysregulated.

SPEAKER_01 18:01

Elevated with them, yeah. I have found now I'm on day 40 of the Yoga Nidra that Ali Schmidt had recommended us to be. That's the that's the uh 40 days the magic number. And so I feel now that do you feel like a changed person? I feel that I don't I have not lately been as dysregulated when they're very, very heated. I feel like almost a little detached from it, not in an unloving way, but just in a way that it doesn't impact me quite as much.

unknown 18:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:25

And so I am sort of able to stay calm through it. And, you know, even when they're really losing it, I don't feel quite as overwhelmed by it. Yeah. And then also I feel that it's sort of given me permission to acknowledge my own needs. I do get really overstimulated. I recently chaperoned a field trip and I was really overstimulated by the bus and the whole thing, and it was so loud, and there was just kids everywhere. And so then just acknowledging that that might not be for me. Yeah, you know, and that's okay. Whereas I think before I would have felt, yeah, I'm just a little more in touch with my own, you know, needs. Inner inner inner landscape. Yeah. Yeah. Through this process of doing the Yoga Nidra every day.

SPEAKER_02 19:07

It's so helpful. I've been doing it too.

SPEAKER_01 19:09

Yeah, it's wonderful. I'm so grateful to Ali. And I I feel that I have much more presence with my just general. I'm much more content with presence. Part of that is getting rid of social media too.

SPEAKER_02 19:22

Yeah. So do you think next time your therapist asks you how you feel like you're gonna do it? Yeah, maybe I'll have to pull it up.

SPEAKER_01 19:26

No, I need the pillow for sure. You need the pillow. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:29

I'm not there yet. Come on now. It's only been 40 days. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:35

It's a work in progress.

SPEAKER_01 19:37

Okay. So any other major things on blame? I feel like you covered it beautifully.

SPEAKER_02 19:40

Yeah. Well, blame is tough. I mean, from a therapist's perspective, blame is tough.

SPEAKER_01 19:45

You said something earlier that it was corrosive.

SPEAKER_02 19:47

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:48

So that's a strong word.

SPEAKER_02 19:50

I mean, it is. If you feel so the thing is, is when we feel blamed by our partner.

SPEAKER_01 19:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:56

It it's criticism. It's criticism, yeah. You know, and it it really is, it's tough to be vulnerable and open when you feel like you can't get anything right. And so it does, it it is corrosive to a relationship over time. It's natural.

SPEAKER_01 20:15

I was about to say, so it's both. It's both natural and corrosive. Problematic. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 20:20

It is. It is definitely. And and what usually ends up happening is when you see a lot of blaming in a relationship, you also see a lot of defensiveness or a lot of correct, of course.

SPEAKER_01 20:32

Shutting down, pursuer, withdrawer, all that. Exactly. And so what I will say is it sounds like the tools, the initial tools that you can use to try it and mitigate this or improve it is getting to your own underlying emotion. Yes. And then utilizing that to more accurately express how you're feeling.

SPEAKER_02 20:52

Which is as a therapist, usually what I try to do. You know, if I have somebody who I'm working with who is really struggling with blame. And people who are really sort of entrenched in the position of blame do not experience some themselves struggling with blame. They experience that they are struggling with their partner. I see. Their partner's behavior. So it's all about the external experience of you did this, you know, you know.

SPEAKER_01 21:19

So probably even self-reflecting is that's hard to approach that topic.

SPEAKER_02 21:24

Well, but the thing is, is that the way that we have to break that down is to really be very, very, very valid. And I wouldn't expect a partner to be able to do this from but from a therapist's like a therapist craft perspective. Very, very, very extremely validating. Wow. And naming feelings. Wow. Like they did that and it made you feel. How did that make you feel? Wow, that's so terrible to feel that way. That your partner who you love and you wanted them to be there for you, they really were not there for you. Your experience of this was really, really challenging. And so the more you're able to validate, not so I don't let people fight during session. And I don't let people blame each other. Like so, if the partner, the blamer, is turning and blaming their partner directly, I will ask them to tell me about it. You know, don't talk to talk to me. Tell me what's going on. And then usually we can get to the underlying feeling, which sometimes involves tears, sometimes not, but it's not real hot anger. It's something deeper than that. And and what the person who's really in the position of blaming wants is softness, empathy, is sympathy from their partner. But when they're coming at them with blame, they're just not gonna be able to do that. You can't get that. You can't know it's defensiveness that you get back.

SPEAKER_01 22:50

Which I think is also sounds pretty natural.

SPEAKER_02 22:52

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, it it doesn't the intention behind the blame is never, it's it's never landing right.

SPEAKER_01 23:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:03

It comes out with this twist that actually gets the person less of what they want.

SPEAKER_01 23:07

Right. Okay. Wow. Thank you so much. You're welcome. Thank you. Thank you for listening to Under the Hood. If you liked this episode, please take a minute and leave us a review. And we'd love to hear from you. If you have any ideas for future episodes, please let us know.