Your Gut Controls More Than You Think | The Truth About Gut Health

Did you know your gut is constantly communicating with your brain?

In this fascinating episode of Forkin' Good, Simon Gault and Kate Fenwick sit down with Alice Fitzgerald, CEO of The Gut Foundation, to unpack the science behind gut health, the microbiome, and why what you eat affects far more than just your digestion.

From mental health and immunity to bowel cancer, inflammation and even your mood, this conversation explores why looking after your gut could be one of the most important things you do for your long-term health.

You'll also learn practical, affordable ways to improve your gut health today, including the importance of fibre, prebiotics, probiotics, diversity in your diet, and why expensive supplements aren't always the answer.

Whether you're interested in nutrition, preventing disease, or simply feeling better every day, this episode is packed with simple tips backed by emerging science.

Learn more about The Gut Foundation and access their free resources:
https://www.thegut.org.nz/
https://gutcheck.co.nz/

In this episode:

✔ What gut health actually means

✔ How your gut communicates with your brain

✔ Why fibre is the most underrated nutrient

✔ The difference between probiotics and prebiotics

✔ How your microbiome influences your mood

✔ Why New Zealand has alarming bowel cancer statistics

✔ Affordable foods that improve gut health

✔ Simple ways to eat more fibre every day

✔ Why diversity matters more than perfection

✔ Small changes that can improve your health in days

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Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:04

So I was thinking about how to introduce today's guest Simon, and I was like, we're getting really into the guts of things right now. And we we're known for talking a lot of shit, right? So today I'm absolutely stoked to welcome welcome, to welcome, that would be good, the beautiful Alice from the Gut Foundation to talk shit, guts, get into it. And I'm excited because even just when we had a catch up on the phone, I was like, we were straight away, we're like, this is there's so much synergy here. I talk rubber, she talks shit.

SPEAKER_00 0:41

And then it combines the both, it does.

SPEAKER_05 0:47

But you know, we all we're all talk about our gut feelings, right? But maybe it's actually time to start listening to those gut feelings. Absolutely now. I've got a bunch of questions for you. And I'm saving the best one until last. I'm excited about my last question.

SPEAKER_04 1:06

Don't be nervous. We just we just go with the flow on our podcast, don't we, Simon?

SPEAKER_00 1:12

Like it, like a good digestive system, should.

SPEAKER_04 1:14

Oh, exactly. Oh, listen to our puns. Oh, we're punning it as well. We've already started.

SPEAKER_05 1:21

I mean, we've all heard about gut health, right? But what really is gut health? Can you summarize it for all our listeners, me and Kate as well?

SPEAKER_00 1:32

Absolutely. And I'm glad that I can summarize it now. So prior to this year, there was actually no recognized kind of consensus from the medical community on what is gut health. Right? So now we have a consensus from them and a definition. And I won't give you that one because it's really boring. But essentially I've translated it into gut health is how happy your insides are, from everything that goes in your mouth to everything that comes out the other end. And it affects everything from your poo's to your mood.

SPEAKER_04 2:07

Yeah, that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 2:09

Pretty simple, right?

SPEAKER_05 2:11

I mean, gut health or gut bacteria have kind of become celebrities lately, haven't they? But it's relatively new science that we're now discovering that, you know, your big brain is that gut feeling. This little brain on top of our head is actually listening via neurons from our gut bacteria. So explain how it actually works.

SPEAKER_00 2:36

Sure. I love this because you know, I I fangirl out at the celebrities that we've got inside us as well. And I think that, you know, you're right on the money. The science is so new. You know, 15 years ago, if you asked a, you know, microbiologist if your bacteria down here had anything to do with your mood or, you know, your your mental health, they would have said no. So it is kind of that, you know, frontier science, but essentially we have this ecosystem inside of us, and it's called our gut microbiome. And where it's housed is in our colon. Do you can you point to your colons? It's not a dirty question. Yeah. So your your colon or your I love the kind of like waving. Yeah. So your colon is your uh big, big sausage that sits on top of the pack of squiggly small sausages, which is your small intestine. And that's where about 90% of your microbiome is housed. And what that is, when we say microbiome, we talk about this whole team of gut bugs, right? Bacteria, virus, fungi that live inside there, and they all have their own specific roles to play in talking to different parts of your body, but also, as we've discovered, to your brain. And they communicate through a whole lot of different pathways, chemicals, hormones, but also uh physically through the vagus nerve. And that's a nerve that connects our brain to our gut and it runs from the base of our skull down into our gut, and they call it the wandering nerve because it wanders around in the gut. It picks up electrical signals or communication, sends it upwards. Now, out of that hundred percent of communication that's going on between our gut and our brain, how much do you think as a percentage is coming upwards versus going downwards? What would you guess then?

SPEAKER_05 4:41

I would say that 90 plus percent is going up and very little is going down.

SPEAKER_00 4:47

And you can't.

SPEAKER_04 4:49

Um I know it's just a stab in the dark. I'd be like, I don't know, 70%.

SPEAKER_00 4:56

Well, I I love that Simon, you're going high because you're like, I'm I'm loving the gut. We're in the we're in the middle, so 80% from the gut upwards to the brain, and 20% from the brain downwards. So the whole gut feeling, you know, we talk about, you know, we have butterflies in our stomach, you know, we are shit scared of things, you know. All of these, this terminology and language that we have, it's actually rooted in the science.

SPEAKER_05 5:26

It's more real than what we realize.

SPEAKER_00 5:28

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_05 5:29

And it's massive, isn't it? Because we've all got about 1.2 kilos of gut bugs inside us. And they're trillions of cells, and we're made up of trillions of cells. But my understanding is that actually, if you said you're a hundred cells, 90 of them are gut bacteria. So we have so many gut bacteria inside us, surely we should pay attention to them when they give us those gut feelings.

SPEAKER_00 5:58

Yeah, so we have a hundred trillion microbes. So microbes are little single-celled organisms. We have a hundred trillion of those on or in us at all times, and 95% of it is in our gut, in our gut microbiome. And you're spot on, Simon, that we have far more bacterial genes than we do human ones. Right? So I always say to people, you are in fact more bacteria than you are human. So when you go to the toilet and you do your number twos and you shed some of that bacteria, you are in fact becoming more human.

SPEAKER_01 6:43

I love that.

SPEAKER_04 6:46

So every morning ablution that you have or whenever you have it, but mine's always a morning situation. Yeah. It's like, oh, in that moment you're just more human.

SPEAKER_00 6:56

And you feel more human, don't you? Yeah, you do.

SPEAKER_04 6:58

It's like you well, they say you, you know, you lost a load. So there you go. Yeah. Lost a load and gained some human back.

SPEAKER_05 7:05

So if we've got a healthy microbiome, we're probably going to be in a better mood. And if we've got an unhealthy microbiome, we'll be a tad grumpy. And possibly our immune system is impacted. Can you talk about that? Because our immune system is massive to our day-to-day health.

SPEAKER_00 7:25

Yeah, absolutely. So when we are first born and we go through the birth canal, we pick up our first ever bacteria that then kind of it's like the big bang, right? It seeds our microbiome to start evolving. And at the same time, our microbiome is evolving, our immune system is evolving. And they evolve in tandem. And our gut bugs act like a bit of a personal trainer to our immune system. So they teach our immune system what to look out for in terms of, you know, what are the nasties that we need to go and attack and destroy, or what are the good things, i.e., our own cells, that we need to leave alone. And so that that conversation and that communication is going on constantly. And I read a really quite terrifying piece of information the other day from an oncologist in the States who said every day we have a whole lot of microscopic cancers that form within our bodies. How many do you think happen in a 24-hour period? How many microscopic cancers do you reckon happen in our bodies?

SPEAKER_05 8:37

God, I'd have no idea.

SPEAKER_00 8:40

100, 500, 1000.

SPEAKER_05 8:42

I have no idea. Put us out of our miserable. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:45

Well, he said it probably 10,000.

SPEAKER_03 8:49

10,000.

SPEAKER_00 8:50

Yeah, this is what this doctor was saying: 10,000 microscopic cancers. And and you know, for the majority of the time, we don't notice and they don't evolve into anything. Yeah. Because our immune system has been taught what to look out for and what to seek out and destroy.

SPEAKER_01 9:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:07

Now, when we are not looking after our microbiome and helping it be as you know strong and resilient as possible, then the conversation between our microbiome and our immune system gets interrupted. Yeah. And our immune system becomes a little bit crippled and unable to fight off things like cancers, but also things like colds and flus and all the other bugs. So the two are very much in tandem. And one way to support our immune system is through a focus on our gut and making sure that that's strong.

SPEAKER_05 9:44

Okay, so how do we know? Like my gut bacteria doesn't send me a text message and go fed me some more fibre or start looking after me. You're just feeding me all this rubbish all the time. So how do we know?

unknown 9:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 9:56

What are we what are we looking for?

SPEAKER_00 9:58

Sure. So I would say the the best thing to focus on is the things that we know to be the right supporting, the right supports for our our microbiome. So things like fiber. Yeah. So in New Zealand, you know, we maybe eat on average sort of anywhere between late teens to early 20 grams of fiber per day, right? Just depending. We need to be eating at least 30 grams of fiber a day, at least. And fiber is just the most underrated tool that we have for not only feeding our microbiome because that's what our gut bugs eat, right? So you cannot digest fiber, your body, that's what your gut bugs digest, right? And they ferment fibers and they create all kinds of like great things for you, like short chain fatty acids and help support your immune system. They also keep your gut lining strong. And when your gut lining isn't strong, then you get things like inflammation. Now, when you have inflammation, that can show up as symptoms of depression in our minds because of that communication that we talked about, right? So when we have an unhappy gut, it's sending through things like inflammation, it's sending unhappy messages to our brain, which our brain is then interpreting as depression. So if we are eating 30 grams of fiber a day, we're actually creating really strong resilience in terms of our immune system in that conversation. We're creating a strong gut lining, which is helping prevent inflammation and therefore that unhappy communication to our brains. And we're also decreasing our risk of things like cancer. So they say that for you know thir if you're eating 30 grams a day, you're reducing your risk of bowel cancer by 30%.

SPEAKER_04 11:57

So what does 30 grams of fibre look like? Like that, because I I I look at my diet and go, am I eating enough? Like, well, I don't know what fibre it, like so. What does it look like for me? Like, for example.

SPEAKER_00 12:10

That's a really great question and one that we get asked all the time. So firstly, I would say it would be the the best thing to do is head to gutcheck.co.nz. That's our new website that we've created, and we have put together a whole lot of resources on 12 ways to increase your fibre. High fibre lunches, if you're out, you know, on the go or you buy your lunch every day, uh, high fibre snacks and things like that. So all we have spent so much time and energy creating resources that will hopefully be as easy as possible for people to go, okay, I can increase. Just as an example to your question, Kate. If you added two snacks in to your day and you did, you know, two kiwi fruit and a handful of walnuts or mixed nuts, even better, diversity, in the morning, and you did the same thing, but you had, say, a slightly green banana in the afternoon with some nuts, you would be adding about 12 grams of fiber just in those two snacks.

SPEAKER_04 13:12

Because that doesn't feel like a lot, though, eh? Like two kiwi fruit and a banana and some nuts, and you're getting 12 grams, which is what you've got to get 30 grams.

SPEAKER_00 13:21

So I mean, that's only a fair game. That's only two snacks, and then you've got breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, so I'm just, I guess my example is it's not too hard. It's just information. Yeah. You know? I think that there is a poverty of information out there, and that's what the Gut Foundation tries to address. How do we get the info to people in the most digestible format? And in a way that people will actually engage with, because that's the point.

SPEAKER_05 13:50

Yeah. So another thing you can add, half a cup of blueberries is 10 grams of fibre. And it's been shown that if you can do that for regularly, you're going to add an extra 10 years onto your life.

SPEAKER_00 14:04

And blueberries are also really high on something called polyphenols, which are kind of like rocket fuel for your gut bugs. So found in like dark fruits, like blueberries and leafy greens, spinach and kale and things like that. Also in very high concentrations in one of my favourite foods, which is olive oil.

SPEAKER_04 14:23

Ah, right. So but raw, not cooked?

SPEAKER_00 14:27

Uh well well, both, but you'll you'll get um you'll get more in the in the raw form.

SPEAKER_04 14:33

Because also that's the thing as well, like I would it it's also in the full, like eating two kiwi fruit, not in a smoothie with some blueberries.

SPEAKER_00 14:43

Yep, you can put it in a smoothie. So that would still give you the same fibre intake or yeah, as long as you're not um like so if you are to juice something, it takes some of the fibre out. If you just whack the whole lot in the smoothie and you blend it up, you're you're not losing any fibre. Okay. Yeah. And you don't have to eat the skins. I've I've tried, you know. My child eats the skins. He also eats mandarins whole.

SPEAKER_03 15:10

Oh yeah. How many of those ever happened?

SPEAKER_05 15:16

I tell people you've got a family living inside you, and it's called your microbiome. And a three-star Michelin restaurant for them, you know, real fancy restaurant, is taking them to fiber.

SPEAKER_01 15:30

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 15:31

Feeding your family, your microbiome, fiber is the key. So we should talk more about fiber as I say, I call it a team.

SPEAKER_00 15:40

That's only because not everyone likes their family. Not me. You're very hard.

SPEAKER_05 15:50

Right, let's go there. I think everybody takes a look in the toilet after they've been. Do they?

SPEAKER_00 15:57

I'm and I do, but not everyone does. Right.

SPEAKER_05 16:00

So they should be right.

SPEAKER_00 16:01

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_05 16:02

At what stage when the poo changes? Yep. Shit, whatever you want to call it, should we actually not be going, she'll be right, I've just eaten something bad, I'm okay. You know, how long before we should be going, I need to go and get checked out.

SPEAKER_00 16:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 16:19

And we should be looking at our poo in the dunny, right?

SPEAKER_00 16:23

Absolutely. You know, that's one of the things that we go out and educate about so much because we teach people how to first of all know they're normal. So it's about understanding sort of where your, I guess, baseline sits. Um, and we we do that based off the Bristol Still chart. And again, all these resources are on gutcheck.co.nz. So we have a poo tracker, review your poo, hashtag givea shit. Love it. And we will put a link to the website below. And and basically people need to track their poo for about 30 days. 30 days is a good time frame to understand what your baseline is, because our poo does change depending on you know what we eat, if we're traveling a lot, if we're stressed, things like that, we get little sort of blips here and there. But once you understand, you know, if I look at the Bristol Store chart, okay, I'm about a three or a four, generally speaking. Then if you notice that you have then gone to say a one, which is severe constipation, you know, a one or a two, and that that has gone on for say two or three weeks, that's what we call sustained change. So it's not that that blip, or as I, you know, I do a lot of work into construction. So I say to the guys, it's not like you've gone out on a Friday night and had 17 beers, and the next morning things are a bit number seven sloppy. You know, it's that has something shifted and then stayed shifted. And when that happens, you need to go and speak to your GP.

SPEAKER_01 17:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:57

If you have done the poo tracking chart, take a photo of that chart on your phone so that if you notice something shifted, you can go to your GP and you can say, Hey, I know what my normal is. I've actually tracked it, and now this is where I am, and this is how long it's been shifted for. Because the more information and data we can give GPs, the better on getting people a diagnosis as quickly as possible.

SPEAKER_04 18:25

Yeah, and I and I know, like for myself, I ended up, I was talking to you about it on the phone, I ended up with diverticulitis, and I had no idea what that was. I thought I had stomach cancer, it was so painful, and then I felt really ill. And it went into the doctors, ended up in hospital on IV antibiotics, did all the scans and that. And I had no idea what diverticulitis was until I got it. And then when I started telling my, because I tell everybody, you know, I've got diverticulitis, you know, and they're like, What's that? So then I explained what I had. Turns out I've got a whole bunch of friends who have it as well, but we didn't none of us knew that we'd suffered from it. And like I've got a friend who's been in hospital multiple times for the same thing. And we both of us are suffering and didn't know, you know, and and even in that time, I think my first attack was about four years ago. And and even the information changes, because back then they were like liquid diet, do don't eat popcorn, don't eat berries, don't eat this, don't eat that. And now it's like, no, eat all of that, is just sometimes it just happens and you know, for whatever reason. But I and that's when I think that whole talking about it and and being open to talk about what's going on.

SPEAKER_00 19:46

It's so important.

SPEAKER_04 19:47

Because we don't we often like posed is such an um yeah, we don't talk about that.

SPEAKER_00 19:52

And just digestive issues, you know, like we did a big campaign in May this year around gut check, and people may have seen our anus beef billboards up around the country. Certainly hope so. And before we did that campaign, we got some research done, which was looking at New Zealanders' understanding of and attitudes towards gut health. And, you know, that was quite eye-opening in that only 17% of us can actually explain what gut health is, which is why I like to give that really simple definition that I gave at the at the start.

SPEAKER_05 20:29

Say it again.

SPEAKER_00 20:30

So, gut health is how happy your insides are, uh, from everything that goes in your mouth to everything that comes out the other end, and it affects everything from your pose to your mood.

SPEAKER_05 20:40

And the most important reason to actually watch this podcast is because New Zealand is the worst in the world for gut health.

SPEAKER_00 20:51

Yes, and things like bowel cancer. So we are we have one of the highest rates of bowel cancer, but we now unfortunately have the higher, well, the fastest increase in young people, so those under 50, getting diagnosed with bowel cancer.

SPEAKER_05 21:07

That is the scariest thing that New Zealand probably has heard, and a very good reason why you should be watching the Falk and Good podcast with Alice from the Gut Foundation.

SPEAKER_00 21:17

Yes, absolutely. And the problem, the even more terrifying part of that, is that the younger that you get bowel cancer, the the less chance of survival you have because your body is very virulent, which means things spread really quickly. Yeah. So if you are, you know, if you are getting something like bowel cancer young, you have to be so aware of your normal and changes to your normal and just be in tune with your body because we need to get you tested and diagnosed as fast as possible to give you the best chance at an outcome. And unfortunately, we don't have public testing until 58, even though the globally recognized For testing or screening, your population for bowel cancer is 45.

SPEAKER_04 22:04

Wow. And it because it must have a lot, because I notice in the last few years especially, there's a massive increase in people with autoimmune and like all these different sort of and and it really sat with me when you were talking about the vagus nerve in the bacteria and what signals is uh going around. And and surely like there's that must be somehow linked to like what is it in New Zealand that we're doing so wrong? Is it because we eat so much fast food? Is it because of the have we got preservatives in our food that we shouldn't have that killing? Our gut bacteria, because I personally, for me, I don't I've never really thought about the fibre stuff until I met Simon. Mine's always been like, oh yeah, I take a probiotic every day, you know, I'm doing good for my gut. We could I could talk about that. Yeah. Well, that's why I'm saying it, because I think a lot of us think, oh, yeah, we take a probiotic, woo-hoo, we're we're doing our gut health something.

SPEAKER_05 23:02

Let's circle back a bit here. So we should talk about probiotics, prebiotics, the difference between the two of them. Yeah. You've raised diverticulitis. It'd be great to get your explanation of what actually is diverticulitis, because I think there's a lot of people that go, I've got diverticulitis, and then you say, Well, what is it? They have no clue. Well, I think Can you tell us what diverticulitis is?

SPEAKER_00 23:25

Well, I was going to say Kate should explain to us because she she it's her experience, you know?

SPEAKER_04 23:31

Well, mine is was ended up I had because I didn't realise I just the it's a pocket in in your bowel lining, and you only need a bit of food, any type of food, to get trapped in that little pocket, and then it gets infected, and then it makes you really, really sick. And I ended up both or well, I think I've been hospitalized for it three times. I ended up in on IV antibiotics for like three days to get the infection down, and it's only like it's tiny, it's not even it's not even huge, but the impact on your body, my my body was massive.

SPEAKER_05 24:06

So if you've got diverticulitis, then you should be having a colonoscopy every three to five years.

SPEAKER_04 24:12

Well, no, no, it doesn't really, once you know that you have it, it you can't, it's not like polyps.

SPEAKER_05 24:18

But don't polyps come core get caused from diverticulitis?

SPEAKER_00 24:23

No, no. So no, so diverticulitis is more of a uh like an sort of inflammatory bowel disease in a way. You know, you've got other inflammatory bowel diseases like Crohn's, ulcerative colitis, things like that. Whereas, you know, when we talk polyps, polyps are mostly associated with, you know, the bowel cancer stuff. And not all polyps are cancerous, but all bowel cancer comes from polyps, which is why when you have a colonoscopy, they take all your polyps out, just to be sure. I just wanted to circle back back quickly to what you were saying about why do we have these issues in New Zealand, you know, and and that's such a great question that we don't have the answers for, and namely because we don't have the research. Yeah. And that's why we exist. To our two mandates are to fund research, both into the disease side of things. So we can actually answer some questions and get, you know, further along, and also into the microbiome and you know opportunities there around treatment and disease prevention. So we fund a scholarship at the Liggins Institute here in Auckland, and they they kind of lead the space in microbiome research in New Zealand. They do some fascinating things.

SPEAKER_05 25:39

And in the world. They're pretty up there.

SPEAKER_00 25:41

They are pretty up there, yeah. And and then we also, our other mandate is education. But there's all these different factors. You know, you look at, and I'm sure Simon could talk to, you know, preservatives and things like that, all the nasties in food. We've got this shift in our eating to a lot of convenience foods, ultra-high process foods, things like that. We've also got the effects of microplastics as well. So I read a paper from Professor Frank Frizel, who's one of New Zealand's top colorectal cancer surgeons and researchers, talking about his sort of hypothesis around microplastics and the irritation to our bowel. You've got, yeah, you've got all these different kinds of factors, and we just don't know exactly what it is. You know? The other thing that you layer into that, and this is something that the Liggins Institute do a lot of work in, is the effect of antibiotics. Because New Zealand has the highest usage rate of antibiotics in the world.

SPEAKER_01 26:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:47

And we have so many kids under the age of five who have been given multiple, multiple doses of antibiotics. And the problem with that, and don't get me wrong, because antibiotics are life-saving tools in in certain situations, right? You've just talked about how you had them, 100%. But the problem that we have is over-prescription and people not necessarily understanding the impact that it would have, especially on a child's microbiome, because that forms in the first three years of life. And so when we disrupt that, we now know from research that that has lasting impacts on their predisposition to things like asthma and obesity and all kinds of different health concerns.

SPEAKER_05 27:34

Crazy, right? So to follow on from that, talking about the difference between probiotics and prebiotics, because I don't think a lot of people don't know. They know they're good. Yeah. But what are they?

SPEAKER_00 27:47

Yeah. Right? Yeah. So prebiotics are plant fibers, essentially. So it's what you find in your fruits and vegetables and nuts and seeds and grains and legumes and herbs and spices, right? And prebiotics are what feed your gut bacteria. Probiotics are the bacteria themselves. So they are certain strains of bacteria that we have in our gut and that we also have in certain food products. So, for example, people will know what probiotic yogurt is. But we've also got things like kefir and kombucha and miso and sauerkraut and kimchi, things that have been traditionally fermented to create that bacteria in there.

SPEAKER_05 28:37

And easy things to incorporate on your daily diet, right?

SPEAKER_00 28:41

Yes, yes. And actually, you know, there is a lot of research going on in the probiotic space around the impact of certain strains of probiotics. For example, the phytobacterium and lactobacillus, which are two of the main strains that we find in in food products, and looking at the impact of those on mental health and things like anxiety and depression. Obviously, very new research, a lot of it mostly done in animal trials, not human trials. But there's a little, there's a not a little test, but there's a test that's called the swimming mice test, which was a piece of research that was done where they put a mouse in a little swimming pool where where it couldn't get out. And it they monitored how long it swam around for before it gave up. They didn't let it drown. So although mice get the raw end of the deal most of the time. But they took it out and they tested its cortisol level, so stress hormone levels. And then they dosed the mice with laptobacillus and biphytobacterium, and then they put them back in the pool, and the the mice swam around for longer with more motivation. And when they took them out, they tested their cortisol levels and they were significantly lower. So there is, you know, research going on in this in that space around microbiome interventions, which basically just means adding or changing the bacteria in our gut to help treat or prevent, you know, things like mental health.

SPEAKER_04 30:17

Yeah. Well, because mental health is really increasing, I've noticed, over the last few years, especially with the amount of stress and things are hard and people well, I even myself, I've been suffering depression and anxiety for for the last probably four or five years, since COVID, really. It kicked in quite seriously and it goes up and down. But then it sort of makes sense to me that it's like, okay, so I take a probiotic every night, because I got told to take it at night, but then I'm not taking any prebiotics, so I'm not actually feeding I'm putting them in, but not feeding them. Well, you will be if you're just eating fruit and vegetables and nuts and but I travel all the time, so I'm not always so I'm I'm actually probably not.

SPEAKER_00 31:00

Now I'm right, I'm gonna destroy your dreams a little bit, and then and then I'll give you and then I'll say something nice. So the thing because I get asked about probiotic supplements all the time. And so at the moment we do not have the um the evidence, the scientific evidence, to show that when somebody like you, Kate, takes a probiotic supplement off the shelf, yeah, that A, you're picking the right strain for you, yeah, because everybody's microbiome is as unique as their fingerprint, right? So everybody's different. A, that if it's the right strain for you, B, that when you take the supplement, that it's actually evading the digestive process. So that the live bacteria in the supplement, if they are live, are actually getting through the stomach acids and then making their way all the way through our small intestine and then into our large intestine, which is where the microbiome is, and then that they're taking root and actually colonizing there because that is the point of a probiotic supplement.

SPEAKER_01 32:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:04

We don't have any evidence to suggest that that is happening for the ordinary everyday person, right? In saying that, uh in saying that, we we would recommend always trying to incorporate the foods that have probiotics because then you're also getting the fiber, you're also getting the other minerals and things like that in them. So that's just a really good way to go. But then if you are taking a supplement, a probiotic supplement, and it's making you feel really good, you notice a difference and it's not giving you any ill effects, then by all means keep taking it, you know?

SPEAKER_04 32:43

I don't know, I don't notice because I just take it every night.

SPEAKER_05 32:46

I'm like, does it like is it I think Alice hundreds of dollars? And focus on the kimchi, the miso, the sauerkraut, all of those things, and think of prebiotics like fertilizing your garden to make things grow better in the garden. Yeah. So if we can be eating those things, we're fertilizing and we're giving our gut bugs in there good stuff, they're back at that three mission star restaurant and they're going to thrive. Your mood is going to be better, your immune system is going to be better. Energy levels as well. But we are the worst country in the world for this gut problem. And, you know, we can fix it. And as a chef, I just want to see people cooking again from scratch where they're buying a pumpkin that doesn't need a label with all these E-numbers and things, or an apple, or a green banana. So I'd love you to talk about am I right about that or am I dreaming? And why is a good green banana better than a ripe banana?

SPEAKER_00 33:57

Yeah, absolutely. Well, look, I'll answer the first the last question first. The green, if you eat your banana slightly green, and they don't have to be pure green, because that's you know, you've ever done that? Starch. You know, but if they're slightly green, it means they are still a prebiotic fiber, so the stuff that feeds our good gut bugs. Once a banana goes fully yellow, the fibers have actually converted into sugars. It's still a healthy thing to eat, but it's not doing the same thing for our gut. Yeah. And that's, you know, such a simple change, you know, just eat your bananas slightly greener. It doesn't cost you any more in the supermarket as well, but you're already doing something good for the gut. On the cooking, you know, around cooking, I mean, I'm a cook. I love to cook, you know, and I grew up in a household with people that all cooked. And so I was very privileged in that way. There are a lot of people that don't grow up in those environments, and so it's quite difficult. I spoke at Lincoln High School in Christchurch a couple of weeks ago. And one of the questions the students asked was, How do we, as teenagers, help support our gut? And I said, learn to cook.

unknown 35:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 35:09

There you go.

SPEAKER_00 35:10

Right? That is that is one of the things that you can do that will help you support your gut health in the best way. Plus, you'll be like the favorite flatmates. Yeah. You know, when you get into a relationship, you'll have massive brownie points.

SPEAKER_04 35:23

You know, it's just all- Oh, you'll get brownie points as your parents too, if you if they turn up home from work and you've cooked them dinner, I can tell you that, Daniel.

SPEAKER_05 35:31

It's just I going back to childhood for all of us, you know, when we were coming home late from sports, you actually got home and your parents cooked. Yeah. They actually cooked. Now, let's just get Uber-Eats. Let's get takeaways. Or, you know, I've got that jar of sauce in the fridge. Yeah. And it's all full of e-numbers and all of this sort of stuff. We need to get back to cooking. And the problem is time. And then you've got other things, and correct me if I'm wrong, Alice, but stress and lack of sleep is going to have a massive impact on your gut health and your diverticulitis.

SPEAKER_00 36:11

Yeah. Yes. And you know, so we we used to do a lot of education in primary schools around gut health. And we're a very small foundation, so it was a lot of manpower to go in and and educate, but we had such great engagement with kids. We even did things in preschools, you know, talking to three and four-year-olds about their gut buddies, as we call them. We say you've got a team of gut buddies inside you. And we have all these, you know, resources and videos for kids on our website. But we decided, you know, how do we get this message out even further? And so we've partnered with a social enterprise as of last year called ETUCAI. Fantastic founders who have built an online, I guess, module sort of learning system where they go into schools, well, they give the schools access to these learning modules, and they have embedded all the curriculum requirements into these learning modules, but they are teaching food literacy. Because one of the founders, Matt, says to me, Alice, we've now got a generation of food illiterate adults raising food illiterate kids, right? So how do you fix that? I believe, and and Matt believes you have to get in as early as possible, you know? So it's that's a fantastic social enterprise to help teach kids as early as possible about where food comes from and what to do with it.

SPEAKER_03 37:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:43

You know, because that's the only way we're going to change. And if we can do that, we're already doing something good for gut health too.

SPEAKER_04 37:50

Because a lot of kids nowadays, and I certainly see it through the food waste workshops that I do, we get the parents talk about like, you know, a bruise on an apple and their kids won't need it, or like they want perfect everything. And I think that's something that we've lost because a lot of kids now they go into the supermarket, that's where you get the food now. Whereas in I when I grew up, I was we had apple trees, we had like all different we had a kiwi fruit vine, we had all sorts of stuff in the backyard. We could go and pick, and you know, we you'd always be careful how you ate the apple, because you never ate apples in the dark, because you definitely bite the worm. But you know, we're we we used to just pick fruit off the tree. Now we have this polished food and kids don't realise what actual food looks like in real life. Like bananas are not all that perfect curve, like some of the ways. Yeah. But that's but that's what they see is perfect all the time. And that's what they think, and and that's where they think food comes from, is the supermarket.

SPEAKER_05 38:54

Well, there's so many options now for fast food, right? When I was a kid, fish and chips were a trick occasionally, yeah, and things occasionally are okay, but now takeaways are just on every street corner, you've got Uber Eats. These kids are gonna grow up not knowing how to cook and just remembering, oh, mum and dad just got takeaways in Uber Eats, so that's what I'll do. Sorry, I'll you were about to say something.

SPEAKER_00 39:21

Oh no, it's just you know, it's such a big problem to tackle, and there's so many different layers to it, you know, and I think it's really important to, you know, always realize that our perspectives that we're coming at it from are, you know, are ones of you know, certain privilege and certain upbringings and certain generations and all of those sorts of things. And, you know, it's like how do you find a way to, you know, keep up with the changing world, because it is, you know, but try and have some sort of impact. And I think one of the biggest problems that I've recently sort of fixated on a little bit, is this excess sugar consumption that we have going on through beverages. Yeah. So again, Frank Frazel wrote wrote an amazing research piece around SSB, sugar sweetened beverages. So your coke and panta and lemonade and you know, the energy drinks and things like that, which you just see young people consuming. And you've got two-year-olds who are turning up to the dentist with rotting teeth because they're drinking coke and things like that. And in this paper, you know, he he talks about this huge increase in early onset bowel cancer in young people. And you've got a uh 32%, you're 32% more likely to get early onset bowel cancer if you're consuming two or more SSB sugar sweetened beverages per day. And that that could be one of the most modifiable and impactful things that we could do is to remove that, especially for young people.

SPEAKER_04 41:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:07

And you know, I I wrote this very spicy LinkedIn post the other day, which I don't usually get too militant about these things, but I was walking down the street and I saw the bus stop and it had this big ad for Coca-Cola supporting the FIFA World Cup and the two cans with the Kiwi, you know, design and the Australian design. And it was like, you know, kick off with a Coke proudly supporting the FIFA World Cup. And I just saw red because I thought that is just the most misaligned form of sponsorship that I've ever come across. Coke supporting high-performance athletes at a at a sporting event, you know?

SPEAKER_04 41:50

But it's it's as bad as what it used to be like with cigarettes and alcohol.

SPEAKER_00 41:54

Well, it's exactly the same.

SPEAKER_04 41:56

Now this is the new version. It's just even like the V's and the Red Bulls and all of this. Yeah, like it's it's actually like how is that allowed? Yet the other stuff, like we've weeded out all that stuff, because that's smoking's bad for you. Like, you know, drinking's bad for you, so we'll take all of this away, but we'll let all these other things that are not good for you be in there too now.

SPEAKER_00 42:21

Like that's And the worst thing is it's so appealing to children. Yeah. Because it's their sporting heroes side by side with fizzy drinks, and they go, Oh, well, you know, I want to be like this person, and they're, you know, and it they align them in their minds because they've got no filters. Yeah. And in New Zealand, our kids see, on average, 27 ads per day for unhealthy products.

SPEAKER_05 42:47

And we've conditioned them ready for this with baby food out of a pouch that is more sugar in it than anything that's any good. So they're bought up and they we're developing their sweet palate of loving this sweet food. And as a chef, I can tell you that kiwis have a way sweeter palate than people in Europe or even almost America.

SPEAKER_00 43:14

You're right. I spoke to someone the other day who was who is selling a product into America and they actually made it sweeter before they went because they thought that's what the American palate wanted. And as it turned out, it was way too sweet. Yeah. You know? So I think you you might be onto something there.

SPEAKER_05 43:31

I think that is a massive reason why we have this problem. Food is so sweet here. Yeah. And you know, if we start our kids with baby food that comes out of a pouch and it's mainly sugar, and then you look at athletes that are using one of those, who's probably, let's say, an athlete's like 80 kilos, yeah, and they have one of those and it gives them energy. They've just done a 40k run or whatever it is.

SPEAKER_00 44:00

we're giving that same amount of sugar four month old four month old who weighs how many kilos two or three yeah maybe yeah and do you know what the other problem is and and something that I struggle with and I'm a mum you know and I do not get it right all the time you know but I and I really struggle with the fact that we have this culture around treats. Yes you know and so we put all these things on a pedestal like you know we put McDonald's on a pedestal as a treat after sport or you know I take my son to this free golfing clinic on the weekend you know and they give them hot chips and fizzy drink at the end you know and it of course he's not allowed to have any of the fizzy drink which you know he's okay with at this age but there's no reason to have it because they should just be okay with water. Yeah like why do we feel like we need to give them sugar as a treat.

SPEAKER_04 44:53

But that's what it's become now and it's happened really quickly. Yeah like I know as a kid the only time you had lollies or cheese or anything like that was at somebody's birthday party and you look forward to it and it was a treat. It was a treat. Yeah but now like you can buy little packets of lollies to put in kids' lunch boxes as a treat which now they're having cheeses and and chippies and lollies and like even those muesley bars are like having a chocolate bar. Yeah. And that's like that's lunch now which is all high sugar high process high everything and it's just nuts like but it's happened really quickly like I I'm 49 nearly but that's in my lifetime we've gone from like how I grew up and that's why when you're talking about like the privilege and stuff I totally like we had nothing when I was because our like we had speedy on toast we had to tough times. But I always remember on the verges of the like on the way to school and people's hedges and at school we always had fruit trees and that's all gone now because people go to the supermarket buy some apples and then they pull out the apple tree because they're sick of bloody cleaning up the damn apples that keep falling off the tree. And I wonder about from a even from a financial standpoint like how do we get our schools, our communities like in and you have these beautiful park spaces where there's a bench why is that not like an orchard?

SPEAKER_00 46:22

Yeah well there's an amazing charity here in um Auckland that we've done some work with called Oki. Paul is the the founder and they build gardens for primary schools. Yeah. Right? And they do them as either sort of a garden where you grow the food or as an outdoor classroom where they can do science and learn about the soil and you know things like that. But you know what an amazing what an amazing project and charity to have because we have the space and we have the you know we're an agricultural nation every primary school in New Zealand if they can should have a garden. And college.

SPEAKER_04 47:00

Because they've got the hawk departments in all these colleges and I know our local college I walk past that you know when I'm going for a walk sometimes and I look and there's sometimes there's something growing so there's obviously a class doing something but I'm like why isn't that just becoming a community garden where the people who can't afford to buy food can go get some silver beetle you know like why do we not and I think it like there's a lot of work in it with councils. I know I work with a lot of organizations doing especially composting and like all that but where where is all of the the the free accessible food that we can grow without having to buy it like that planting an apple tree in a part in a ground or a Fiji and and having people be able to go and help themselves makes so much sense. At college at primary you've got all these useless trees that do ever do nothing that we could actually grow some food that actually do something for people and we have one of the worst outcomes in New Zealand for gut health.

SPEAKER_05 48:06

So this is why it's so important. And you know you've talked about all those foods that these kids are eating now and adults it's affecting their mood, their immune system but what it's actually doing is when it goes inside you you've got that gut team buddies in there you've got microbiome all those gut bacteria and it's like flying over a rainforest and throwing an napalm bomb out and half the rainforest gets destroyed but the rest of the rainforest can't thrive by eating these foods we into our tummies they don't go oh the N numbers will stop working now and the preservatives will stop working. They keep working go into your tummy and destroy the infrastructure and then what happens? Your mood deteriorates your immune system goes down your sleep will be worse you'll be more stressed it's just a circle. So we've got to feed our gut microbiome healthy foods.

SPEAKER_00 49:11

And it doesn't have to be expensive you know and that's what I mean when I and I said at the beginning you know there's a poverty of information which we are trying our best to you know counteract because I understand if you don't have a lot of money to feed your kids and and the cheap stuff is the ultra processed stuff, well you're gonna feed them that because everyone wants to make sure their kids have food. We have to I mean you just that's what what parents do. And unfortunately it is that food that is the cheapest you know so there is just this yeah the this real issue that we have to try and solve there because there's no such thing as cheap food. Yeah because someone pays the price. Yeah whether it's in their health or whether it's in the environment or both there is always a cost to be born for that type of food. And instead of being so reactionary as a government you know and as a nation if we if we focused more on how do we make really good food and the food that feeds our gut microbiome more affordable. Accessible yeah that would have a massive impact on our healthcare system and the burden that we face 100% and you're right you know we need to feed our microbiome and oats are really good right high in fibre really good for our gut buddies not expensive. Yeah things like you know just knowing about eating bananas slightly greener you know doesn't make the banana more expensive things like chickpeas chickpeas and lentils and things like that in a can that's fine you know really good for our gut. So and can be affordable and affordable that's what I mean yeah so there's lots of those foods that are very good for our gut. It's not about chia seeds and goji berries it's chickpeas and green bananas twigs and berries and I think all of them not nothing against chia seeds and goji berries at all but I don't like goji berries just saying yeah but you know it can be very simple very affordable food. But even just apples right like apples apples are one of the best fruits that you can eat for your guffs.

SPEAKER_04 51:24

The fibre and yeah like and that's the thing like instead of buying usually bars get apples or something you know like we we can and I'm really I'm aware of it now a lot more from a waste perspective. So I'm buying more whole foods in bulk and then putting it into the lunch box and in smaller quantities and and also because not giving them too much either because that's also you know you don't need a lot of a lot of food and I actually make it like with Lewis my stepson he I he makes his lunch and then I know he'll eat it. Yeah. But it's also I'm watching what he's putting in there. So it's not like highly processed highly you know all the it's always we've always got some dry mango or some different things that if that's a sweet treat is dry mango instead of those stupid snake things which are lollies.

SPEAKER_05 52:17

I feel a lot of people you know we say it's too expensive. And yes there is no such thing as checkpoot. But I hear a lot of people blaming it on being time poor and I question that because if we can't organise ourselves to do some preparation, do we have time to scroll on our phone? Which is everybody seems to have time for that now, right?

SPEAKER_00 52:42

Well it's choose your heart isn't it by Grant Schofield's great book.

SPEAKER_05 52:47

Choose your heart I'm doing a thing with Grant Schofield tonight actually.

SPEAKER_00 52:50

You know so choose the heart of you know choose time or choose the heart of suffering from XYZ down the track because you're not supporting you know I think the other sort of angle from from the gut foundation is always let's focus not on elimination but on addition you know and we don't want to go out and tell people what they can what they should do because no one wants to be told what to do, right? It's a real surefire way to be told to you know so what we say is look just pick one thing you know and implement it today. Or if you know that you've got 10 minutes in the morning make a smoothie right so make a smoothie and put in you know depending on the cost and and what you can afford but if you have frozen mixed berries if you have frozen cauliflower so if you put some frozen cauliflower in a smoothie and blend it up can't taste it but it's a really sneaky way of getting some extra fibre and a different veggie in there. Good for the kids there just so probiotic yogurt or kefir or something like that. A handful of oats maybe tablespoon of you know peanut butter something like that milk of your choice you might put some protein powder in there you know you can make a really dense fibre rich probiotic smoothie in a very short amount of time and you're already you know you've got a great base for the day. So if things tend to fall off the cliff for you later you're already doing something. We don't have to do everything. You know and it should be in in hopefully some way joyful. Yeah because you know food is joy right and we should enjoy eating and we should enjoy the social connection it brings and I think all of that's really important and it can get lost in the fixation we have on diet cultures you know different diets and making sure we have 40 supplements and you know all of this. Yeah you know same prebiotics and probiotics Alice has saved you hundreds of dollars all the supplements are going out the bloody door Alice for everybody listening out there going actually I need to make some change what are some things you'd like to see in their shopping trolley oh well I I actually thought um you mentioned some green bananas apple berries yeah and then some things like sauerkraut, kimchi, miso soup as well like whatever's in bulk that's you know affordable because one of the other keys to gut health so 30 grams of fiber a day 30 different plants a week that's the sweet spot for gut health right now I say that to people and they go oh my God have 30 different plants in a week right and I get it.

SPEAKER_05 55:47

Herbs and spices count you know all our prebiotics so herbs, spices, nuts, grains, seeds, legumes, fruit vegetables right now I just talk about herbs and spices but wait Simon's got some great Italian season that would that would count that way yes like that would count because they're nutrient dense that's the thing and that's if you look at other cultures they use a lot more spices than we do in New Zealand.

SPEAKER_04 56:19

So things like you know garlic, turmeric ginger you know just genius for a house sorry that's it's a good I've been using it heaps lately and I know I always give you a hard time but it does not sit there. Well I thought I pulled that I have them in all my kids but I have to say like I never thought of these as being like good for my gut. Yeah but I it's like obviously well they're flavour and then I thought of salt or sugar.

SPEAKER_00 56:55

So this is this is I'm glad you brought this up Simon I didn't bring it up for this reason but I brought it up so you didn't have to this is also great though because it's a blend right so and just as you said about you know other cultures so they did a um research piece on spy they gave people in Singapore spice mix for two weeks and it showed an improvement they had an improvement in the diversity of their gut microbiome right so there's two things to this it's diversity which means if you're gonna buy a spice buy a blend right if you're gonna buy a frozen vegetable buy a mix. If you're gonna buy a frozen berry buy a mix.

SPEAKER_05 57:37

Always have you know sort of as many different things in there as possible because that's diversity have you got something smell that's organic ginger ginger is that I mean smell that and then when you go home if you've got ginger in your cupboard have a smell so that's organic yeah and it's not expensive lasts for ages and just smell this turmeric. You know if you think garlic turmeric and ginger are three of the top things for fighting cancer. And it just when you brought up herbs and spices I'm like that's what we need more of in my in our diet.

SPEAKER_00 58:18

Absolutely and I mean I so I have something called a diversity jar and it's you just get a jar and you fill it with you know whatever nuts cost effective that you like you know as many different types as you can you put some seeds in there so I've got you know sesame seeds pumpkin seeds sunflower seeds in mine. You might put you might put some grains in there you know of of whatever type but then if you've got say what have I got in mine I've got peanuts, almonds, walnuts I think I've already Brazil nuts? No, I think I've got um macadamia it's got basically seven or eight different nuts and seeds in there. Now what you can do is you can have one of those that's just plain for the morning and all I do is I take a scoop and I put it on top of my probiotic yogurt and mixed berries in the morning. You could have some oats in there as well some porridge. You can then take your diversity jar ingredients and roast them in olive oil and a beautiful spice blend such as this one. And you can have it for the evening and you take a scoop and you put it on roasted vegetables or you put it on a salad or whatever. And you're able to add you know seven or eight plants just in that scope on top of whatever else you're having.

SPEAKER_01 59:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 59:39

So that's what I mean it's not too difficult. It's just having the information and thinking about it a little bit as to how you you know you go about it.

SPEAKER_04 59:47

I know it's I'm sorry and we're just probably just sitting down and working out what you've got is a really good start. Like so use what you've got first before you go out and buy stuff. Yeah actually take stock of what is in your pantry work out what are all these things I could make because I love that idea as a diversity jar.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:06

I mean chickpeas as well you roast them in some spices in the oven they go all crispy.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:10

I do Moroccan chickpeas for Hazel's lunch same thing I roast them in the oven. And the way I do my diversity jar is on a Sunday afternoon and I haven't done it for a little while but I do do it is I get a mix of all those things different nuts and seeds pumpkin seeds and everything I have a bowl and I drizzle some extra virgin olive oil in there and then I sprinkle in my Mexican seasoning or my rock in and I toss it round and I just put that into a little container and I throw it on the seat of my cart and I make sure I've got a cloth because it's now a bit oily but olive oil is so good for us. But the flavor and you need the olive oil so it all sticks to it so I don't have to roast the nuts because nuts are better if you don't roast them. They're way better for you. So that's how I do my diversity jar. But I think one thing that I think there's gonna be loads of people out there thinking you are doing an amazing job. How can they support the gut foundation? Where do they go? We're not finished yet because I've still got my rapid fire questions and more questions. I know Kate won't have finished yet but how do they support the Gut Foundation of New Zealand? So we've got better grandkids and kids growing up.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:26

Absolutely I mean we are a very small organisation we've been around for 32 years but I'm the only part-timer and then we have two sorry I'm the only full timer and then we have two part-timers. So we are out there doing big Mahi for for such a small team. We don't get any government funding so it all comes from corporate sponsors and we do a lot of education work and we into corporates and part as part of their health and wellbeing so if you have a company or an organization and you want to get gut health into your your team please get in in contact so we can do it in person or we can do it via webinar and what we charge for that then funds the research you know and funds us to be able to do what we do. The other thing is go to gutcheck.co.nz we have so many resources on there that we have thought about how do we make people's lives easier because I don't want to add something more on people's list of things to do. Yeah website again gutcheck.co.nz.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:28

Put a link there we'll put a link there and then it's nobody looks at the link.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:32

Nobody looks at the link. Well we hope they do right if you can uh follow us on social media that also really helps us because our our mission is to really get the information and education and knowledge and tools out to as many Kiwis as possible. Love it. And so if you follow us on Instagram GutFoundationNZ or on Facebook or on LinkedIn that would be we can make a difference to New Zealand by supporting you. Yes and we in turn you know partner with as I mentioned each education so we fundraise so that we can help them deliver our education and their education into high EQI schools as well who maybe can't afford the program.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:17

That's cool.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:18

So we are trying to I believe in collaboration because there is 29,000 charities out there in New Zealand for a population of five million and I really believe that if people work together a little bit more we wouldn't dilute the funding and we wouldn't dilute the impact. So if anybody is keen to collaborate and work together we're always open to that too.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:41

So before Kate and ask our final questions because I'm saving my good one up until last so don't steal it off me.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:49

I don't even know what that is you've been pretty good at asking some of the questions that I've written send it to me or me I'd like to just add to it that just just before we wrap up Simon and I are at the Waikato food show this coming weekend.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:07

Nice.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:08

So we're gonna be there you're cooking I'm talking and I'm gonna get him to talk as well he just doesn't know it yet so we're gonna be at the Waikedo food show this coming weekend and my final thing is I just think you're amazing. I think what you're doing is amazing when I met you on the on the Zoom when we had our Zoom and I was like this is so cool I can't wait to talk shit with you. You know I think it's such an important thing like health we've been talking about health for a long time Simon but you know I'm really trying to focus on my own health and here I am taking a probiotic thinking I'm doing a good thing and and now I'm like it's fine. I've been destroyed by many things. But you know I think that's the stuff when sometimes it's knowledge is power and for me now I'm like right when I get home I'm gonna get a diversity jar I'm gonna go around the Waikato food show and find some good kimchi and stuff and and and actually start looking at how how do I incorporate it.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:13

Because even though you had that kimchi a couple of weeks ago fermentary that tropical kimchi is to die for I'm now putting it in Hazel's wraps in her lunch and it gives that little bit of crumb she loves it teased it with he teased me with it little cracker with a bit of cheese in this kimchi and I'm like oh this is amazing oh so where do I get it?

SPEAKER_04 1:05:34

He's like I don't sell it.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:35

I was like damn it now I've got to go and find it well and they're all like little boutiquey New Zealand companies there's yeah wild fermentary and living goodness as well they do some great kimchi and sauerkraut and things like that. And you know these are people and companies that support us and I'd say you know we're so grateful. Thank you for your you know your kind words but you know I'm just one person. And I We have a great team. I have Natalia and I have Bridget and they are incredible. And then we have our sponsors, you know, our our Astron Life, MG Group, Unimed Purex, and these are organizations that just get it. You know? We have I I have to name them all now. Share New Zealand, Craig, wonderful, Reform Radiology, Alvia Radiology. And we can't do what we do without them because we don't get any other help.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:25

Yeah. And they are shout out to those guys.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:28

They are shit hot legends.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:31

Literally.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:32

And then we have, you know, people like yourselves that invite me to come and be part of what you're doing. And I'm so appreciative of that because that's how we get it out there. You know? And so thank you both for this opportunity.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:47

Can I ask my last question now? Sitting up high and going, oh my God, I've really got to take this whole gut health thing seriously. I need to start today looking after my gut microbiome. If they do the things that we've talked about today, start incorporating that into their life, how long before they will see a difference? Is it a couple of weeks? Yeah. A couple of months?

SPEAKER_00 1:07:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:18

Because we want a goal for these guys out there, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:07:21

Well, the great thing about gut health and about the microbiome is that it's not a it's not a six-month eating regime, it's not even a six-week eating regime. It's a you literally can change your microbiome with your next meal, right? So the next thing you put in your mouth will start to change your microbiome because it feeds different gut buddies, right? So every single choice that you make, and I I heard this from somewhere and I just think it's it's brilliant, is that every day you are essentially 3D printing yourself from what you consume, you know? And so if you start incorporating some of the things that we talked about, you would see a difference in maybe as little as 24, 48 hours, 72 hours. There's a foundation or an organization in the UK called Zoe, Z-O-E, who are world leaders in microbiome research and education. And they just did a microbiome challenge with a group of participants, and in 72 hours they started to see, you know, energy levels increase, uh, sleep get better, things like that.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:40

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:41

So it is gut health is not too hard basket, it's not wellness fluff, you know, it is really the foundation of good physical and mental health. And we can all do it just by choosing one or two things and just starting today.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:56

And and the good thing is that tomorrow morning you're gonna crap out the bad stuff from the day before. You can start fresh and become more human.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:07

Like, isn't that just such a good roundabout way?

SPEAKER_00 1:09:11

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:13

Go on, Simon, you're excited.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:16

I love it for our questions. Okay, are you ready? Okay, I'm ready.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:20

All right, have you guys subscribed out there? All right, everybody's answering. Yes, one food you wish every Kiwi would eat more of.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:29

More Kiwis.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:31

Kiwi fruit? Kiwi fruit. There you go. And there's a little bit of study around a couple of kiwi fruit for sleep and gut.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:39

Triple threat food, Kiwis.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:41

There you go, and we're in the right country. Yeah. Alright. Pizza or pineapple on pizza?

SPEAKER_00 1:09:47

Uh yes, pineapple on some pizza.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:50

Pineapple some pizza. Okay. What's one food you'll never convince yourself to eat?

SPEAKER_00 1:09:57

Never is a long time, and our taste buds evolve, so nothing I would never consider. But if we're saying a drink, coke.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:05

There you go. Best snack, and I know you've talked about the diversity jar. Have you got another best snack that's going to look after our gut microbiome?

SPEAKER_00 1:10:14

Honestly, an apple and a handful of nuts is the best snack.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:17

And one food you'd happily eat every day for the rest of your life.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:21

Olive oil. Love it. Can't get enough of it. Extra virgin olive oil all the way.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:29

All right. Well, there you go. You're happy. You got your questions inside. I could see you're very excited.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:35

You can bring the rapid fire questions next time.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:38

Next time, next time I'll do that.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:39

You can make an effort.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:42

My effort was getting here, right? No, well, thank you guys so much for joining us. Thank you, Alice, for coming along. Thanks, Simon, for you know, getting all the questions that I asked without seeing it. And look, honestly, my tape from today is like we've all you've got one body and you one gut. You need to look after it because otherwise, you know, it shit can go wrong real quick.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:09

So you can't trade that body in and get a new one, or a second hand one even. No. So let's look after it. Thanks for joining us on the Forging podcast with Alice from the Gut Foundation, Kate Fenwick, and Bugalugs here.