Does artistic authenticity equate to good art? with Xaii Kuu

Xaii didn't get to make fun of Jack Harlow so obviously.. We also use that topic as a jumping off point to talk about artists who are authentic vs "culture vultures" and how it is some culture vultures make great art and some "authentic" artists are kinda mid. As always please like and suscribe. Love you. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:02

It's me. Mm-mm. It's me. That's cool. Uh fucking brilliant. You want to talk about the Jack Harlow thing? You do it. You do it. That had to be it. It's a good time. It was no other topic it could have been.

SPEAKER_00 0:32

So I am probably going to get cooked for this take, but I personally don't think he was out of line for what he said.

SPEAKER_02 0:39

For sure.

SPEAKER_00 0:40

But I do think the album name, I think it's all like the optics of it are kind of sketchy.

SPEAKER_01 0:45

So it's like Do you Okay, so let's rewind for a second. Because I'm not really gonna explain it. Cause I spent I talked about it what I thought about it last episode, so I don't want to bore people. Hello, welcome to the Krim World Podcast. I'm your host, Krimberley. This is your co-host Zai.

SPEAKER_00 1:05

What's going on?

SPEAKER_01 1:06

Um we're talking we're talking about the Jack Harlow album again. You knew what happened. Zai didn't get a word in. Um yeah. I so did you have you listened to the album?

SPEAKER_00 1:17

Nah, nah, I'm not going to.

SPEAKER_01 1:20

I'm not going to. I I I would implore you to just because I mean at this point, you're not whatever. But I was listening to it just just just now before this, and I was actually thinking, like, if he not that it isn't RB or isn't like in the same, you know, lineage as like Neo Soul music. Um, but if he do you know who like Jack Johnson is? Yeah, yeah. It's not different that different from like Jack Johnson. You know what I mean? So it's like if he didn't go out of his way to label it as like an RB thing and he wasn't in the interview talking about Neo Soul and shit, I think people would just be like, yeah, this is just a white guy singing on some guitars. Yeah, yeah. Because that's what that's what it is.

SPEAKER_00 2:12

You know what I mean? I haven't listened to it, but I've seen enough clips of it to know that I'm not gonna listen to it. So um, but I do think though, like like the conversation around it, I think that like him, like we have to make a decision, right? Like, do we want white artists to like blink like to be more authentic or like to lean more into black culture as they make our music, or like what do we want? Like, do we want I I don't know, because you know I'm a strong MM hater.

SPEAKER_01 2:42

So it's like I'm actually surprised by this opinion, not because I I ultimately hold the same opinion, but you are typically much more staunchly protect about protecting black people stuff for black people, which you know, valiant, like correct. Um but yeah, I ultimately it's so funny. Have you so did you listen? How much of the like full interview that he did? Did you listen to?

SPEAKER_00 3:12

I listened to uh like the first 45 minutes of it. I went, I got to the part where he said, like, oh, I went blacker because I had seen all the clips of it. And then there was like maybe another what 30 minutes of the interview after that, but I kind of got what I needed to get from the first 45 minutes of it. And uh, my whole thing about the whole I got blacker thing is I think that it optically it's a wild thing to say with no context, right? Well, given the context of it, I get what he was trying to say, and I also understand that like he was saying that to two white guys, but that's what you have to say to get them to understand what he's saying, you know what I mean? So it's like if he was talking to black people, he wouldn't have had to say that. You know what I mean? Like we would have, we would have just kind of known like, oh, you're leaning, you're clearly leaning more into our culture, you know what I mean? But two white guys telling you, like, hey, a lot of white artists tend to get in hip-hop and then sway away from hip-hop to safer white genres, but we see you are doing that where they didn't have, they couldn't figure out the words to properly say it without sounding problematic. And he was like, We just gonna say this shit. I'll say it. Fuck you. Yeah, like just I'm not media trained at all. So he's like, I got black or but I also feel like in the content, I don't know, man. I feel like that that at the interview was just a bad somebody, his publisher should have been like, look, there's not enough black people in this room to talk about this album because of what you're doing with this album. So, like, no, don't with these guys, don't talk about the album. Just talk to them about whatever they ask you. And of course, he's an artist, so they're gonna talk about the album, like they're gonna ask him about the album. But I feel like there's a way to like he should have maneuvered that conversation, like consciously, knowing that he's talking to two white guys and knowing that he's getting he's getting blacker. Like, you know what I mean? Like, there's a way, if that's where your mindset is, there's a way to talk to other white people about that. We're like, there's a there's a way to do this shit. He just didn't do it well, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 4:57

Yeah, the irony of the situation is like I listen that's like a podcast I listen to all the time anyway. So like I listen to the whole thing, and the first time I listened to it didn't even raise an eyebrow at what he said. Um and the ironic part is because like you were saying, he's responding directly to a question about being a culture vulture, you know what I mean? And he's trying to say, and they, like you said, are they can't really figure out how to say it in a more politically correct way. And like they couldn't figure out how to say what he said in a way that wouldn't make them all go viral. And he was like, No, I'm fine going viral, I'll just say it. Say like it's he's kind of saying the quiet part out loud a little bit. And that's it's like I said, it's ironic because the question is literally like, hey, you know how all these other contemporaries, MGK, Post Malone, Miley Cyrus, or whatever, have done this thing where they come into black split spaces and then gone back to being whiter. It's kind of weird because you've gone to being the natural thing to say is blacker, right? Like it's not. That is if you were trying to under that's why I said it didn't raise an eyebrow, because he's explaining pretty like pretty on point about what it's like. Yeah, pretty on point. And it's but at the same exact time, it's it it's indefensible optically. You know what I mean? Like I was like, I tried to come on here and I was like very tepid last week. I was like, listen, y'all, I know I'm not gonna post a clip about this or anything because I will be called a coon online. I know how it goes, but he he was trying, and like you said, we have to make space. I don't even I don't know, because uh I I feel I just don't the optics of it, like you said, his his media, PR people, whatever, they all should have known a question like that was coming. Like he the first conversation is how are we gonna address the culture vulture allegations? And he should have had something ready to say that wasn't I got blacker. Because the optics of again, three white dudes, I like all the white dudes, all white dudes I approve of, but still of three white dudes being like, let's talk about what white people's place in black culture is, is ultimately the conversation three white guys are having, which as the three white guys, two of which are like New York Times journalists, like you guys should have that awareness a little bit. I don't want to say they set him up, but if you go to it feels like they kind of did it. The title of the episode on their like podcast feed is how Jack Carlo got quote unquote blacker. So it's like yes, yes, I think he knew I don't know. I feel like he knew there would be a backlash almost. Because again, they're not gonna like send out the episode without like sending back to his team or whatever, like, hey, this is what we're gonna run with as the title for the article. So I don't feel bad at all.

SPEAKER_00 8:15

Yeah, I don't I don't necessarily like feel any like sympathy for him. I think that where like it kind of gets ugly is like we I feel like as a we're starting to do this thing where we are disingenuously laughing people out of the culture. Because it's like if we're gonna laugh anybody out of the culture, why didn't we why has why haven't we laughed post Malone out of the culture? Like, why do we allow him to just leave the culture? Well, he's gone.

SPEAKER_01 8:39

I mean, how can we laugh him out of the culture? He's not here.

SPEAKER_00 8:42

But like before that, we he how why did he stay so long? You know what I mean? Like that's kind of where I'm at with this. Like, if post Malone can stay that long and Eminem can stay that long, then like why is like how to say this?

SPEAKER_01 8:52

Like, with respect to M, M's a different category than that. No, you M is M is a different category than that.

SPEAKER_00 8:58

No, he's no, just because he's from Detroit and a nigga grew up on Eight Mile don't mean nothing.

SPEAKER_01 9:03

It's not about from Detroit, it's about like all these other artists moving in and out of hip hop. Eminem, you can like him or not. He's never pretended to be anything other than a rapper.

SPEAKER_00 9:14

This is fair. This is fair. I do not like that nigga at all. No, like this.

SPEAKER_01 9:17

Clearly, we know.

SPEAKER_00 9:19

But uh I feel like there's a lot of like, there's just a lot of other artists and opportunities we had to like really stand on this that we chose we're choosing, like we're choosing an easy target. You know what I mean? Because like Jack clearly wasn't properly trained on what to say in that moment. And then it's like, like I cut the nigga some slack, but like, god damn, we call people call that nigga. I seen the A's, like the NWA fucking.

SPEAKER_01 9:45

All of the nicknames are funny, all of the Photoshops are funny, all the jokes are funny. Like every thing. It's like I can't even be like that mad because it's like he said a silly thing, people are roasting him.

SPEAKER_00 10:00

Yeah, that's and I feel like what makes it what makes it worse is the fucking optics of the album. Like the whole the whole outfit and the whole like style change, it's like, god damn, bro. Just make the album. You know what I mean? Like, you don't gotta do all of this, bro.

SPEAKER_01 10:17

Just just make the album.

SPEAKER_00 10:22

Bro, I seen a clip of a music video of him. He looked like he was straight out of a Jill Scott music video. You know what I mean? Like, it's like, uh again, like just make the music. You know what I mean? Like, let make the music and let the people hear the music and then let black culture tell you you were got you've gotten black. Like, don't put on the aesthetic to sell that to us. You know what I mean? Like, because like everything is marketing, everything is like not necessarily an agenda, but like no artist puts out a body of work without having some kind of rollout in mind. You know what I mean? Like, how am I gonna get this to the people and how are the people gonna consume this? And how do I want them to consume this? Like, let's say all of those questions were asked, and he answered all those questions, and this is what we got bad look, you know what I mean? Like, just objectively a bad look. But I'm I from what I've seen on the album, everybody's like, oh, well, the thing about the album is too, like, I haven't heard any black people speak good on it, but I've heard like every white boy that makes any type of like clip content talk about how these are the top whatever tracks on the album. And I'm like, in all honesty, there really can't be no top tracks on the album because the album is what like eight songs. Yeah. What does that mean? There can't be a best of eight. Uh yes, there can, but I feel like if we're talking about like, like I feel like black people have to decide that. You know what I mean? Like, let us decide. Let us decide what the top songs are. I feel like, I don't know, man. I feel like there was a there's a line in there, or there's another interview he did where he talks about his girlfriend's black. And I I hate, I hate when white dudes do that. It's like, oh, if she loves you, she likes you, that's cool. We don't need to know that. Like, we don't really care if she do or don't, you know what I mean? Like, as long as you're not abusing her or like appropriating, using her to appropriate further, we genuinely don't care, bro. You know what I mean? Like, we don't, don't, all of these things that he's done to like sell the album have cheapened it. You know what I mean? It's like, bro, because like if he was going to try to genuinely make a Neo Soul album, which apparently it is, but again, I'm not listening to this shit. I'm not going to. Only because I'm not gonna listen to it because it's called Monica. And the whole narrative of like Monica being a joke that is like white people saying because like it's close to the, he's like close to them saying, My nigga. Do you think do you believe that? No, that that is a thing.

SPEAKER_01 12:37

I know, I I know that's a thing, but do you believe he named it like that on purpose?

SPEAKER_00 12:40

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't think yeah, I think he's not, um, I think he's too young to not be socially tapped in. You know what I mean? Like you, he is like the same way we've seen it somewhere, he's seen it somewhere. You know what I mean? So it's like, you gotta, you, you, you, you gotta do better, bro. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 12:57

Like, no, it's it's hard for me to believe that, but I will say, again, they asked him in the interview what the name was about, and he's like, I just like the sound of it. And it's like, oh bro, you got you gotta come harder than that.

SPEAKER_00 13:09

Yeah, like just like the sound of it, it's like, God, you he's like he is the white Drake because he does things where it's like, fuck, bro. I want to be a fan of you, but you make it so hard.

SPEAKER_01 13:22

He's playing our faces a little bit. Yeah, your fans make it so hard, and I just need you to just make it the interesting thing is I went and checked out, like tapped into his subreddit the day after it came out because I was like, What do Jack Harlow fans think about this? Mostly they hate it. I've a lot of they really think he is like, they're like, we waited five years for this, where are the bars? Like, they Jack Harlow fans really think he's one of the hardest rappers. He's a good ass rapper. He's a good at like we we don't have to do this every time we talk. We both like him. I've I actually like the RB album. That's probably my favorite album is put out. Word? I mean, I don't really like any of his other albums at all.

SPEAKER_00 14:02

So I don't I I will honestly admit, I don't think I've listened to an album. I think I've only heard his mixtapes. I don't think I've listened to any, like I didn't listen to the what the kids like come home. Yeah, that's the only one I listened to. I haven't listened to anything. If it wasn't, if it wasn't uh Gazebo or fucking the Ghost album, or no, confetti is what it's called. I only listened, I've only listened to like his early mixtapes and then confetti. I haven't listened to any.

SPEAKER_01 14:26

Why'd you hop out? Why didn't you come home, the kids miss you?

SPEAKER_00 14:30

Because he started uh the what is it? What's that one song? What's poppin'? What's poppin' got on my fucking nerves. And I was just like, I just I'm not gonna do it. I don't want you to think, I don't want you to take this any further and make it. I can't approve of this. I can't approve of this. Like, I can't give you my stamp. Um but yeah, like I feel like, I don't know, man. I feel like he he could have had something if he had just let it come out. Like, I feel like this has been one of the best albums to not do any like rollout for. Like, let your faith let this album build its own virality, like let it build its own steam. You know what I mean? Like, don't you go out of your way and say shit like I got black or I like the sound of the title or whatever. You know, like that shit just cheapens the album. And then with the whole title, I feel like if it was genuinely about a girl, he could have named the album like a meshes to Monica or something. You know what I mean? Like there could have been more words added to it than like just the name. And so it's like, yeah, man, it's just I don't know. It's just so many things about it where I'm like, ah, I wanted to give him grace because that interview, the clip that people are taking from that interview, I do think is genuinely out of context. And when we look at the context of the conversation that was being had, I don't think there was another way for him to say that to them dudes. I don't think that was another way for saying that.

SPEAKER_01 15:44

People are really hopping out. Like he just was like, they were like, How do you like what's your inspiration for this album? And he's like, I'm black now. I listened to D'Angelo. Like, that's how people are treating it, like, which is very disingenuous to me. Yeah, yeah. It is what it is. That's the internet age we live in.

SPEAKER_00 15:59

It is what it is. Um, have you said have you been keeping up with Atlanta News?

SPEAKER_01 16:04

Uh, what specifically?

SPEAKER_00 16:06

The Roscoe Dash interview with Boom. What about Boom Man? No, what was So Roscoe Dash did an interview uh with Cam Newton, and um he I I didn't know shit about Boom Man until this series of conversations happened.

SPEAKER_01 16:20

But apparently there was a hate Is that someone I'm I should know? Uh you'll get into it.

SPEAKER_00 16:27

Yeah, so Roscoe Dash, early, early manager before him and Travis Porter linked up, and before No Hands Came Out, and before before he really took off, there was a manager that he had named Boom Man who from what Roscoe says um was pretty much had his hands all in his bag, you know what I mean, and like from publishing and distro and all these other things. And then before Roscoe really knew what was happening, Boom Man sold his contract. Like he sold his signing to a bigger label. And then in that selling, Boom Man was basically like the selling basically was like, I want to get residuals on everything. Like, I want to get he so Roscoe signed to a 360 to Boom Man, and then Boom Man sold his 360 to a bigger label. But he didn't get himself cut out of the 360. And so it's like, oh, whatever, everything that Roscoe was doing after that point, he was getting a piece of. Let Boom Man tell it he wasn't. You know what I mean? But let everybody around him tell it. And like, nah, that nigga was heat. We not finna act like that nigga wasn't heat, not for that shit. And then Roscoe was kind of like, you know, people out, like when he came since the Metro take came out, everybody's like, oh, where's Roscoe been? Where's Travis Porter been? Like, no, they're coming back hot. And then Cam apparently is a huge Metro Boomer fan. Cam, apparently, Cam loves everything about old Atlanta. Like that's that part. What he says is that's his bag. That's where he was, that's where he grew up at. And I totally feel him because like me, Cam's so much older than me, but I'm like, I grew up with that shit too.

SPEAKER_01 17:50

I don't think Cam is so much older than you. I think Cam's, Cam probably like, I don't think Cam's 40 at least.

SPEAKER_00 17:57

You know, is he isn't like 40? But if he ain't 40, then it makes sense. If he ain't 40, then it makes sense. But yeah, that's apparently Cam's bag. Roslo is basically on there saying, like, hey man, like, I y'all been wondering where I'm at. I've been struggling to get back on because I signed a stupid ass deal when I was 19. And the person that I signed the deal to knew that it was a dumb deal and knew that I didn't have a lawyer present, but they still, they, you know, they flash money at him. You know what I mean? And because Bullman, from what the streets are saying, that he's always kind of been one of them ones where it's like, if you seen him, he never was broke, he never was really down bad. But again, you let him to, of course, when he speaks his own story, it's the exact opposite. But there's another artist named Euro Got it, who I just start listening to his music because of this conversation, also kind of in his bag. Um, but Booman signed him too, and they kind of had a similar falling out where Euro was like, man, that nigga scamming people, bro. Like that nigga is getting in your bag, signing you to the janky deals, and then selling your janky deals to bigger, jankier deals. You know what I mean? And so it's like, it's one of those things where like you sign to a nigga that signed to a nigga that signed to a nigga that sold you to a nigga. Yeah, it's like a Ponzi scheme. Yeah, exactly. Like a hip hop Ponzi scheme. And then he runs this um, I forgot what the label's called, um Authentic Entertainment, something like that, Authentic Entertainment or something like that. No, Authentic Empire. Um But yeah, they like he was on um Big Facts Podcast with Bank, and I love Big Facts Podcast, because like they get on there and talk to our have artists like that like not necessarily street niggas, but they get them on there to talk bigger than their music, like bigger than the sales, and it's like, oh, not that I thought you were just a dumb nigga, but like there is more to you than this what I've heard from you or what I've seen from you. And so it's just really cool to see that podcast. But he's also a master conversator and allowing, like, allowing niggas to snitch on themselves. Like he'll ask, he'll ask one question and be like, let you answer the question, then he'll hear your answer and then like inverse the question to see if you're gonna change your answer. Because like the whole podcast, Boom Man was like, I didn't sell Roscoe, I just got, I got, I got bought out of the deal. And then it's like his first, the first 40 minutes of him basically saying, like, I got bought out. Then somewhere in that conversation, though, he's like, when he starts telling the story like on his own, he says that immediately, like, I sold Roscoe, and then Bank is like, You sold him. He's like, No, no, I got bought out. Like, nah, nigga, we heard what you said, nigga. Nah.

SPEAKER_01 20:24

Nah, we got two cameras rolling right now, buddy. We're good.

SPEAKER_00 20:28

Exactly. So it's like, uh, I just think it's uh, you should, you know, you should catch, you should uh check up on it. It's uh it's pretty, pretty good, interesting stuff considering who's being talked about, and then like how how pivotal these artists were during that time, and then seeing what was happening to them during that time. Because like I asked for a long time, like what happened to Roscoe. Because like for a minute there, it looked like bro was finna take off and take over, like Soldier Boy did. Like it looked like he was gonna be the next Soldier Boy, like, and I just what happened? You know what I mean? Like it just did he just disappeared. I think the same thing happened with Travis too.

SPEAKER_01 20:59

Like, I was gonna say, there's if based on like the Metro album, all pretty much all of those dudes, it's like, huh, I wonder why I I think like I don't know. Obviously, you know, based on what you're saying, and you know, what on what we know, a lot of niggas do get like hoed out by labels and bad managers and this or that or crashing out because of whatever issues they have. But I mean, niggas also just fall off a lot. So it's probably a little bit of both, you know, it's hard to imagine. I think like, have you heard Wale talk about uh his verse on No Hands? He Wale talks about how, at least I saw in one interview, about how he pretty much hates that song because it's like his the song that like he's most known for. And he said he's like, Roscoe came in, played me the song when it was just him and no uh walk on it. I did my verse in like 30 minutes and then. He dipped out and didn't really hear him from him again until boom, the song's out. It's a hit. Now everyone talks about it all the time. And it's like the verse he put the least amount of effort into in his entire career.

SPEAKER_00 22:10

That's what's so crazy to me. Cause like Wale also gets like, he gets like the black Jack Harlow hate. I I feel like I feel like because he gets like this weird like hate because he's like uh what's the word I want to say? He's like, to me, if Neo Soul was a rap genre, that's what I get from him. And I feel like to be, we gotta be honest, motherfuckers wasn't really feeling Neo Soul unless nobody is really feeling Neo Soul unless it's sung by a pretty black woman or D'Angelo. You know what I mean? Like there's no real middle ground there. And so um I feel like Wale gets the same treatment where it's like, ain't nobody really checking for your music unless it's attached to something else, you know what I mean? Which I think isn't fair because bro is probably one of the best pimmons in the game. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 22:53

Yeah, it's a shame. He really is, like as a complete hip-hop artist, one of the best we've had for the past 20 years for sure. He just never had his. I mean, honestly, if he came up just not at the same time as like Drake and Big Sean and J. Cole and all these other dudes who had like crazy mainstream appeal. But I I don't I don't know. Wale Wale's a weird one too, where it's like, man, why did he fall off? Because it really, I don't really feel like his sound ever got like bad or inconsistent or he changed it or anything.

SPEAKER_00 23:28

It was just one of those. He did too many things optically. Like there were too many. There we saw him too much. We saw him and we saw his emotions too much. Like he was never, he was never mysterious. You know what I mean? Like he was like, because like that's one of these things that do help these niggas like take off. Like, I I guess the opposite of that would be Jake Cole, but Kendrick. I was gonna say, right. Like Kendrick's whole thing for the longest has been that like you know him, but you don't know him. Like you know of him, but you don't know him. And then every single album, you get another piece of him, and it's like this every time you get a piece of him, you're like, oh, there's more to unravel here, you know what I mean? But it still has this air of mystique, and it's like, we don't know what then they're gonna say next, or we don't know what he's gonna talk about next. But with Wale, you do know because all he's gonna talk about is black. And all he's gonna talk about is his emotions and his struggle in the industry and then being black. And then, like, to me, you don't really gotta talk about much more. You know what I mean? Like, that's why I like the music so much. It's like I don't really need you to get like philosophical or like fake spiritual, like, I don't need you to grift like Kendrick. Like, I just want you to just rap, you know what I mean? Like, give me your authentic rap. I still to this day stand by the fact that Kendrick is one of the most successful grifters of all time.

SPEAKER_01 24:39

Like, oh man, you're gonna make me you're gonna make me ask about it. Hey, before before I get into it, I'm just gonna predict how I'm gonna feel after what you say. Based on whatever your parameters are gonna be for that, I'm gonna say we could also apply that to Drake and any other big rapper. Oh, yeah. Okay, okay, okay.

SPEAKER_00 25:01

Now, now cook. So I feel like Kendrick, um, he's like a revolutionary that doesn't revolutionize. Like he doesn't, he doesn't do any of the things. Like, he just puts on, like he puts on the persona of a revolutionary. But like he has never really stepped out of capitalism, he's never really challenged capitalism, he's never really challenged anything when it comes to like protecting the culture, other than saying shit like we don't let white comedians talk about black women. Like, that's to me the most direct line of like protecting the culture that he's ever dropped. You know what I mean? Like his early music was extremely problematic. Like a lot of his early, like if you go back to his early, early music, a lot of his music is homophobic, transphobic. He does address that in Mr. Morale's and the big Mr. Morale and the Big Steppers. But like, that's what 10 albums down the line, nine albums down the line, like that's years down the line of his career before he even, before he takes the time to reflect on the music that he's put out so far. And then like he does it in the album that does that sells the least. I don't think that's his fault. I think that niggas don't want to hear him talk about being introspective and shit like that. Because we we wanna we wanna buy the grift and kindred, but and it was the least interesting album, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_01 26:10

Really? We do, we do. This is one of those ones. This is one of our like five core conversations. But yeah, Mr. Morale is just the least interesting album.

SPEAKER_00 26:19

It's his best album ever, though. Like, it is objectively his best body of work ever.

SPEAKER_01 26:25

See, once you bring objectively into it, it's that's just objectively his best body of work is Tapemba Butterfly. I don't like it, but it's the highest rated, most awarded, yada yada yada.

SPEAKER_00 26:35

Yeah, I guess you got a point there, depending on what we're we're basing it on.

SPEAKER_01 26:38

But I feel like Will Kid Mad City is just one of the five best albums of the entire genre, period. And really?

SPEAKER_00 26:46

I bet people say that shit to me all the time, and I'm like, bro, I like Section Eddie so much more.

SPEAKER_01 26:51

I'm not saying Section Eddie is bad. Section Eddie just has some really weird moments on it. And some he says some weird shit, and there's some weird, you know, song. Well far from home, on the Hollywood.

SPEAKER_00 27:08

I just feel like, man, I I I don't know, man. I feel like good kid Mad City is so overrated.

SPEAKER_01 27:14

Cause you'll just be like, man, I hate Kendrick, not a rapper, I like, and then we'll just have like a full-on discussion about like ranking his discography, and you'll be like, no, these are great. What are you talking about? And it's like, I have you even you finished describing how he's a grifter, so just that he takes on revolutionary aesthetics without actually being revolutionary with movements.

SPEAKER_00 27:38

Yeah, I think that's why I think that that's why he is so profound, you know what I mean? Because he says the thing, he says the quiet part out loud, but he don't really say nothing. You know what I mean? Like he not really people say that to me at the time, like, oh Kendrick's Kendrick's saying what they don't want to hear. I'm like, that nigga they he's saying that. Nobody wants to hear it.

SPEAKER_01 27:55

Would you say when you finish your list first listen to Tapember Butterfly? At the end of that, you're like, he ain't really saying nothing.

unknown 28:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:05

But I mean really he ain't saying nothing.

SPEAKER_00 28:11

He wasn't saying shit, bro. He wasn't saying shit. Can't tell me otherwise. But he made all right. He made what's is be humble over there? Is humble over there?

SPEAKER_01 28:20

No, that's on damn.

SPEAKER_00 28:22

See what I'm saying? Damn is better than honestly.

SPEAKER_01 28:25

I think humble's maybe my least favorite of his songs, period. So that doesn't smoke to me.

SPEAKER_00 28:31

Um yeah, nah, he wasn't saying shit on to Pimper Butterfly, bro. He wasn't saying shit.

SPEAKER_01 28:36

So the whole metaphor about the butterfly being in the Tupac poem, and none of that, you felt none of that was substantive.

SPEAKER_00 28:46

That shit didn't mean shit. It's like nigga, who were you talking to? Like that's who he was talking to. Park somewhere in heaven, like, stop it, nigga. Stop it. You're not convinced me of the bullshit. I think the only the worst, the only bigger offense to Pac than that to me was what Drake did.

SPEAKER_01 29:05

Obviously.

SPEAKER_00 29:06

You know what I mean? It's like at some point, we gotta let that nigga stay in the grave, bro. Like, let that nigga get his let that nigga.

SPEAKER_01 29:12

I like to imagine Pac was in heaven. Like, actually, nah, that shit was hilarious. Kendrick's kind of corny. I hate that he did that whole talking to me shit. Uh that shit, and that shit, bro. It's I can't I mean, this is gonna be. I don't I hate that I'm gonna say this, but Tupac is probably more of a grifter than Kendrick is.

SPEAKER_00 29:35

No, you're not, you're not, you're not wrong. I don't disagree with you there. I think that like every like if you're gonna call me a coon, they're gonna call they're gonna Hey man, if you think that that's coonery, you just don't know culture for real. Like that's if we're gonna be we're gonna be honest about this shit. I feel like what we need to do is we need to stop taking these. Like I get that like these artists have these huge impacts in culture, but I think we need to stop like cheapening our culture to allow niggas to be grifters and let them mean so much. Same with Drake. Like, I feel like Drake showed, he should, he should have shown a generation how much we don't really care about the culture, you know what I mean? Because we let this nigga come in and granted, he came in and changed the game. He will, I give him that. Take care, change the game. Niggas will never convince me otherwise. Niggas started sing rapping after that. We niggas knew who the weekend was after that. Like he changed the game.

SPEAKER_01 30:25

Give niggas permission to be sad.

SPEAKER_00 30:27

Exactly, right? It gave it, but all be beyond being sad, he empowered a generation of fuckboys.

SPEAKER_01 30:33

Like for duty.

SPEAKER_00 30:38

He empowered a generation of fuckboys. But I do feel like we do this thing in the courtyard where we allow people to, because they their sound is so good, we allow them to pull the veil over our eyes over who as to who they really are. Because it took, I don't even know how long into Drake's career I when I found out that nigga was a Jewish Canadian. And like, not to say that that like devalues his whatever, but it's like, nigga, I thought you was a nigga. Like, I thought you was one of the niggas, but you not. Like, yo fucking you. Every time I hear him talk about his uncle, I used to, I used to envision his dad every time he talked about him. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 31:17

Like I used to think, like, oh, this is his uncle in Memphis or his dad in earth.

SPEAKER_00 31:21

Yeah, his dad was his dad was in Memphis, yeah. Um, I think his name, I can't remember his dad's first name, but yeah, the his dad was in Memphis. His uncle is a white Jewish man. But if you listen to um, what's that one song where he talks about taking a car over my dead body? If you listen to Over My Dead Body, you think he's talking about a real nigga. You know what I mean? You think he's talking about a real cool uncle unless you take the whip, slide around town in the whip, and go get some play. But you're talking about a Jewish white man, it don't hit the same. It don't hit the same at all, you know. And so it's like, it's one of those things where I think that we, because the music is so good, because Over My Dead Body is such a good song, you know what I mean? Like, and it is objectively a good song, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_01 31:57

But it is uh Over My Dead Body's got a shout out to Asian girls, let the lights dim some. Yeah. Hell yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:05

Yeah, I'm glad that that's the bar you knew too.

SPEAKER_01 32:13

Like that's one of those bars that I like a bar I never thought about one time as like weird, and then I got on the internet and everyone's like, this Drake bar is weird as hell. And I was like, oh yeah, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Wait, what are you saying?

SPEAKER_00 32:27

Yeah, I feel like I feel like didn't Gambino say some of the same shit though?

SPEAKER_01 32:33

His entire discography is him saying weird shit about Asian women. And unfortunately, as a teenager, I'm like, I guess this is edgy. I'm not engaging with this part of it. I relate to you as a whole, but you know, shout out to my Asian sisters. I'm not, I'm not what he I'm I don't got what he's got. He's got uh some other shit going on.

SPEAKER_00 32:59

Bringing it back to the grifter conversation, I think that we do allow people like to be monumental while not actually doing anything monumental. You know what I mean? Like, and I I think back to Pac, where like I get why people were attached to Pac so heavily during that time, because there was nobody talking about what he was talking about. Like, nobody was making Brenda's Got a Baby, nobody was making Dear Mama, you know what I mean? These are songs that like in a as a generation you can feel, you know what I mean? Like these are songs that like regardless of how street you are or whatever, whatever, you have seen this somewhere in your real world. And it doesn't really matter how honest the Tupac's character that that is, you know what I mean? Like, I don't Nigga could be a fraud, but the song is real to me, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 33:45

And I think that I don't think he's a fraud, by the way. I hope that was clear. I wasn't trying to say he's a fraud, but just in the same way that he's like, I think he's the fraud. I think he's he's more fraudulent than Kendrick for sure. Cause he Pac came from like, you know, art high schools and shit. Yeah, man.

SPEAKER_00 34:02

When I see that nigga in that fucking Leotard, bro, that dinotaur, I was like, oh, this this is thug life, my nigga. Like, nah.

SPEAKER_01 34:09

Yeah, but uh fucking Jesse Jackson should have got that scrubbed from the internet.

SPEAKER_00 34:13

But but um what's also what's also crazy about the Pac thing to me is that like I didn't know for the longest growing up, I didn't know that he actually wasn't from the West Coast. He's from like North Carolina or something. Something like that. He's from somewhere on the east. Um, but like like all of these things, like it kills me when I know that how much the wet the West Coast claims him. Like, bro, he is one of y'all later in the game, but he is not, he ain't tall. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 34:40

Like, yeah, I mean, he ain't I mean, he is though, you know what I like the entire West Coast, East Coast rivalry was big, you know what I mean? Like Biggie and Tupac stood for symbolically the East and West and were accepted by them as such. I think like uh like Kanye's not from Chicago, Ludacris is not from Atlanta. There's a lot of people. What? Wait, wait, wait, wait, what? Kanye was born in Atlanta, Ludacris was born in Chicago. Swear to God, I didn't. Swear to God. A lot of people, yeah. That's what I'm saying. People, you can be like, God forbid, uh I any not either of us. I blew up now. Like, I would probably claim the West Coast just because that's where that's where niggas know me from. That's where I started doing my shit at. And that's fair. If if I claim Atlanta, people are gonna be like, you weren't from Atlanta? Like, where are you? Where you where was you?

SPEAKER_00 35:34

Yeah. But like literally though, nigga, I am. Yeah, no.

SPEAKER_01 35:37

But it's like, not that I won't won't claim it, I'd claim it forever, but it's just like, where are you out of type shit?

SPEAKER_00 35:44

Yeah, that's fair. That's fair.

SPEAKER_01 35:46

Yeah, I don't, I just uh I don't know. I think there's like some sort of line, and I don't know where it is, between like creating an art like as an artist, a musician, a creative person, creating like a character that is, you know, the person who sings the songs or who acts or who does stand-up comedy. Like, I think we all do that to an extent, but it's hard when you're deciding, you know, how far do you want to push that line? You know what I mean? Do I do I want to be like, okay, me as Krimberley, the performer, is just a heightened version of myself, or is it a heightened version of myself that you know, I'm like, let me throw on, let me throw in some more black slang, let me, you know, be more connected to XYZ black things. You know what I mean? So it just looks more.

SPEAKER_00 36:44

Um I feel like Gambino is the perfect example of that. You know what I mean? His whole career is essentially like he I feel like we watched his whole career struggle between being Donald Glover and Childish Gambino. And it wasn't until the end of his career where he's like, I'm just Donald Glover. Like Gambino's dead, and I'm I I can't do that anymore. You know what I mean? Like I that's I don't have the capacity to walk that line or push that line anymore. Like at some point, you do, if it if the character outgrows your identity, at some point you do kind of gotta trash it. You do kind of gotta be like, I don't, I know y'all love Gambino, but I'm Donald Glover. You know what I mean? Like, I like how much do you love me and my music, or how much do you love the character that I've made music behind? You know what I mean? And so it's like at some point, you reach a burnout zone, you know what I mean? And like, I don't I don't know what that line is, or I don't know what that point is either, but I do I do get what you're saying. I think at some point it just happens. I think you just it just clicks and you're like, you know what, I'm tired of this, bro. Like I'm exhausted.

SPEAKER_01 37:41

Thinking about it in relation to an artist like Kendrick, it's like, you know, Tupac, obviously, from discussion we've had, he's clearly like pushed that further than anyone else we've discussed so far. But with an artist like Kendrick, where I'm like, I I don't get the feeling that the person Kendrick Lamar and the artist that he projects as Kendrick Lamar are that different. Like I'm obviously everyone's performer, you're gonna, you know, heighten whatever to sell records. But I don't know, I don't get the dis I don't get the feeling that there's that much distance in between it. And I say that because like he, I mean, like you said, with the whole the whole point of the album, Mr. Morale, is him talking about how he doesn't want to be seen as this savior, right? And it's like, so it's hard for me to call him that much of a grifter where I'm like, he he is incredibly pro-black, incredibly like he centers black stories and blackness and the black experience in America and the issues that black families have and all these other things, and he does that, but I don't really I haven't seen that much of him being like, Ayo, I am a revolutionary, Ayo, I want to overturn capitalism, Ayo, I, you know, am in a lineage of Black Panthers, like Jay-Z is out here every month being like, I'm Fred Hampton, you know what I mean? But it's like I really don't see Kendrick as an artist that does that. It's like it's the nature of being in America where being pro-black, you are inherently perceived as uber political because but like where does he where do you see him really being like I just don't see how he can be that much of a grifter when to me he doesn't really claim to be a revolutionary as much as he just claims to be pro-black and working through what he sees as like the issues affecting him and his community.

SPEAKER_00 39:50

I feel like, you know what, hearing you say that it may not even be so much him, it maybe it's fucking fans. For sure.

SPEAKER_01 39:56

But that's why I said you should you should get it. That's what the whole album's about.

SPEAKER_00 40:00

I thought he's fucking fans. And so um, you know, how to say this. I feel like he speaks in a way that is so like conscious and like aware, or like not gonna say conscious, but like that is so self-aware, where it's like if you really, really, really don't want to be perceived as that, like I feel like you gotta go more out of your way to challenge that. Like you can't don't let the conversation continue running off in that direction of speaking on you like you're a revolutionary. If you don't feel like that or you don't want to be one, you know what I mean. I feel like if Mr. Mike, Mr. Around to me is one of his best bodies of work and is one of his most introspective bodies of work, but it's also the one that he did the least rollout for. Like he did the least amount of promotion for, he did the least amount of anything for. Like that shit dropped almost like a quiet Tuesday or some shit. Like that shit just kind of came out and nobody really knew about it. I mean, unless you was like you're a Kendrick fan.

SPEAKER_01 40:54

No, nobody knew about a Kendrick Lamar album being released.

SPEAKER_00 40:58

But like, let's let's be real. Like, where did you see any advertisement for Mr. Riley and the Dick's text? I mean like I saw GNX everywhere before it came out, you know what I mean? And so, like, same with Dam. I saw Damn everywhere before it came out. The Pimper Butterfly came out during a time where the the protest and like the George Floyd movie was happening, it's like that because Kendrick was who he was dropping the album during that time, it's like you can't not hear about this nigga finna drop an album during all of this. You know what I mean? So it's like, well, Mr. Morrell, I would have liked for him to be like, hey yo, this is the album I need y'all to listen to. Like, I know y'all love me, whatever, whatever, but this is my album. I'm talking to y'all like this is me. Just listen to it. Good, bad, or whatever. Just listen to it. Like, I'm not here to, I'm not, I don't want to sell you a narrative anymore. I want you to listen to my music, hear what I'm saying, and then devise your own understanding of this shit. I'm not here to push you in a direction with a narrative. I'm not here to take you away from a narrative. I'm not here to do anything. I just want you to listen to the music. He didn't do that. I feel like J. Cole does that more than Kendrick. And you know, I think J. Cole is obvious. I think it's both me. You know, you know, you know my.

SPEAKER_01 42:04

I mean, I think Kendrick is. I think there's something to be said for letting the art speak for itself. Like, I obviously hear what you say in terms of promotion, but like it's hard to do promotion for an album that doesn't really have any accessible popular songs. You know what I mean? Like, there's no, you know.

SPEAKER_00 42:27

Rich Spirit is a banger, but that's the only one.

SPEAKER_01 42:29

There's cool songs, and like the Kodak one is cool, but like there's no, hey, this is gonna be a hit that goes big on TikTok that every I mean in 95 kind of got big on TikTok, uh, because they edited that Radiohead song with it. But yeah, I don't know. I guess uh I what is your point?

SPEAKER_00 42:51

He should have been more intentional about yeah, I just feel like he should be more intentional about the album rollout.

SPEAKER_01 42:56

I because like how does he you're really you're really picking nits here, but uh do you?

SPEAKER_00 43:03

I just maybe you're right. Maybe maybe I'm just a hater.

SPEAKER_01 43:06

Maybe yeah, I was like maybe I'm just a hater, but it's like you're right, but he didn't tell us that.

SPEAKER_00 43:16

But no, for real though. For real though. Like, I feel like like how to say, like, it's not to say that he doesn't know how to capitalize on the spotlight or he doesn't know how to lean into the moment. Because like, that's all that um not like us was was him like destroying Drake and then for the next year just leaning into the moment of destroying Drake. You know what I mean? So like you clearly know how to do this, you clearly know how to like get behind the message or get behind the uh mode or whatever and push it to the people. But you choose, to me, you choose the most shallow, empty ones to do so. Cause like it's I think Kendrick is mid, but I will say he does have a a thick discography. So it's like if you do want to take the time to go through the nigga music, You know what I mean? But like he don't he doesn't he doesn't put the music out there for you to be like, oh yeah, this is this is some pal.

SPEAKER_01 44:07

There's no mid artist where you've heard like five of their albums. If they're mid, you're not listening to as many albums as you clearly listen to. I've only listened to any mid like I've only listened to two J. Cole albums. That's how I feel. Because he's mid. Yeah, you're right. You're right. So I'm about two for seven with him. But Kendrick, even though he's not my favorite, I I'll listen to all the albums.

SPEAKER_00 44:30

I feel like as a black artist, you have to listen to his albums, though. It's like it's one of those things like with Drake. I feel like people like Iceman ain't gonna sell. Iceman probably not gonna sell, but I'm gonna listen to it. You know what I mean? Like, let's not act like it's not gonna get plays or some shit. The same way um sexy songs for you got plays, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 44:46

I haven't listened to sexy songs still.

SPEAKER_00 44:48

Well, I mean, honestly, you're not you're not missing out. You're not missing out. It's just it's just it's just a Drake album featuring party next door. Yeah, that's all it is.

SPEAKER_01 44:58

I'll get back into it. Uh, I'm not gonna get, I mean, I might. It depends. If Iceman moves me, then I might get it.

SPEAKER_00 45:05

I think Iceman is gonna go crazy, yo. I think Iceman is finna go crazy because what did I miss already as a banger? I got I'll play one of what did I miss like on repeat. Like, I fucking love that song. I ain't gonna even hold you. I like the transition to the second half. I think the second half, I hope the album sounds like I like the second half, because the second half is such a bop, bro. Like, it's like, I don't know, it's just the ultimate, like, that fuck you song, but it's like, oh, so you so you hating now, nigga. So now niggas hating. Okay, okay, nigga. Like, I just I just fuck with that energy. Like, I just want the album to be. I want the album to be oh niggas hating now. That's what I want the album to be. Like, but uh I think Iceman's finna go crazy. I think it's the album that we're gonna have to listen to for the culture. Like, granted, everybody's like, oh, Drake's dead, Drake's not the culture anymore. I'm like, bro, can we stop the cat? Can we stop the cap? I feel like, no, I take that back. Drake definitely got laughs out of the culture, rightfully so, because he's the same.

SPEAKER_01 45:56

I don't know about out of, but definitely would you think he's out of the culture?

SPEAKER_00 46:03

I think that I think that we'll see that based on how Iceman performs. Like if Iceman, if his if he drops the album and then the music videos for the album don't do uh upwards of a million, like greater than a million, like tens of millions, but then like the first week or so, then yes, we can say he's out of the culture now. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 46:20

I think I I like I can rock with that from like uh like the uh I think people talk about Drake like he's out of the culture, but there's been like twice this week, like I can't even remember what the full song was because it was like uh a song on maybe Scorpion, but it it was just like a dude in a car singing a Drake lyric that was just like you were real mad last summer and now we're something together because you know he had like spun the block on his ex or whatever. And he the TikTok was just him singing that line or singing that part of the song and laughing. In the comment section, like thousands of comments, people just being like, Drake really got a song for everything, and being like, you know what I mean? Just just talking really positively about it. I'm like, yeah, there's still so many spaces and people who just don't give a fuck. And so I I it's hard for me to be like he's out of the quotar. It's like I think it's a thing like uh, like you know, how uh before the last election it looked like Kamala's gonna win. It's like, yeah, because people who are voting for Trump aren't telling you that, you know what I mean? Like that's how I feel about Drake fans now. It's like people are still like look at the streams. We're still people are still listening to Drake. He's not talking about it publicly.

SPEAKER_00 47:39

I'm a loud Drake fan. The only sad part about that is that niggas make it hard. Like niggas make it hard. You know what I mean? Like, like, god damn, bro. I that video I sent you, that nigga dancing a Drake. I'm like, bro, that is the epitome of being a Drake fan. Like, how hard it is to be a Drake fan, because I gotta defend shit like that.

SPEAKER_01 47:56

Like, I I don't know if we've talked about it. This, yeah, I actually have another point. Um, I don't know if we talked about I I feel like being a fan of anyone is terrible now. I feel like everyone's fan, not like not people that like the artist, you know what I mean, but people's like, I'm a this person fan. If you claim like I'm a Kendrick fan, you're annoying. You know what I mean? If you're Drake annoying, like any people who have like, yeah, I like this person, that person, this person, cool. But any of the Drake, Kendrick Cole, any other big, like, even the pop stars. Stands, yeah, the stands are you open up a comment section about them and you're like, I wonder whose stands are in here, you know what I mean, throwing chairs and shit. And they do be, man.

SPEAKER_00 48:41

They do be. That's my thing too with the whole Drake thing, is like I've seen people like like get angry about other people's like perceptions of him or whatever, or like how they don't like him. And I'm like, bro, you ain't gotta get mad about it. Like, if you still rock with the nigga, just still rock with the nigga, you know what I mean. And you also don't gotta be quiet about the fact that you still rock with the nigga, but you don't gotta be, don't be holding the nigga nuts like a trophy. You know what I mean? Like, that's that's what you gotta do. So, like, like just say you a fan of the music, you know what I mean? And I but me personally, I feel like I hate stands too, you know what I mean? Like, I feel like a stand of anybody. I feel like my first initial hate for stands started with Eminem. Obviously. Yeah, I feel like I couldn't stand stands, not even because of the song. Like, I feel like niggas was really, really fans of Eminem like that early in his career. You know what I mean? Like, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:33

Well, it's also the like, I don't listen to rap. Eminem has the most, I don't listen to rap, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:42

Exactly. But I've seen a um, it was something I was looking at earlier where somebody was talking about how I think it was they were talking about J.I.D. And how J.I.D. gave them a similar vibe of of uh Eminem, and somebody was like, Don't you dare compare him to Eminem. Eminem is this type of lyricist, and J.I.D. is here. I'm like, just say you don't like black people. Yeah, I was about to say just say you don't like black people. Like it's J.D.

SPEAKER_01 50:08

and no shade is clearly stealing Eminem flow sometimes. Yeah, that's like the when he goes to the the Popular Poper, the Pope of the Papa, it's incre incredibly indebted to Eminem. And I think they like he's acknowledged that and they've worked together. So yeah, if you're like I like fast raps, but I don't like GID, probably racist.

SPEAKER_00 50:28

Yeah, I feel like I feel like if Eminem is your favorite rapper, I'm just assuming you're racist. Like I'm just assuming that you're racist, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 50:36

Yeah, if Eminem is your favorite rapper, Larry Bird's your favorite basketball player, you like there's people who say they like college basketball better than NBA basketball, and it's like what why? Yeah, because there's more white people, because you could watch a whole team of white guys and maybe they'll actually win a game in college. Yeah, right. Or do you watch them get trash?

SPEAKER_00 50:56

You can watch them dug on for fucking 60 minutes.

SPEAKER_01 50:59

I like fundamentals. I like play the game the right way. Anyone who's doing something the right way, racist.

SPEAKER_00 51:06

I was seeing that literally on um, and I can't remember uh what game that was, but I was I just happened to be um on like the sports end of YouTube going through my awkward because I had just started watching. I'm really, really big into the MMA, but I refuse to pay for the UFC pre like I refuse to pay for that shit because they trash and they're paying their fighters. But I will go on YouTube and just go through like the highlights of a fight. And once you start doing that, YouTube's like, oh, you like sports? What about this sport? What about that sport? And so it was a video of um I can't remember what team it was, but it was this team, majority of the white kids, majority of white guys in college, but they were getting done the fuck in by this other team that was like majority black. And one of the first comments was it was like, oh, it's it's okay. They don't, those guys, they're doing all those dunks or whatever, but they just they don't know the fundamentals. They don't, they don't, you know what I mean? Like they don't they don't have the core foundation of basketball or whatever. It's like nigga, don't be mad because they put nuts in your boys' head. Like all them fundamentals clearly ain't gonna be a good thing.

SPEAKER_01 52:02

Fundamentals don't give a yeah. If you can dunk, fuck your fundamentals, brother.

SPEAKER_00 52:08

Facts. But um, yeah, I think um I I've been on a recently on a Mac Miller kick. I've been getting back into his bag, but I I faces is still one of my favorite mixtapes of all time.

SPEAKER_01 52:18

I faces is perfect.

SPEAKER_00 52:19

Every time I listen to Faces, I'm like, I thought I was the only one who felt that way.

SPEAKER_01 52:24

I just probably is I mean it is his best body of work.

SPEAKER_00 52:28

There's no there's no debate about it. There's no debate about it. There's no debate about it. What can you say? Maybe balloonism?

SPEAKER_01 52:34

I wouldn't put ballooner. I like balloonism, but it didn't have that much staying power for me. I still miss to it. It's comparing different things, but I do think swimming is really, really, really good too. It's not the same thing though, but he the songwriting on swimming is really I'd listen to swimming whenever. Also, kid, like we could really, if we're really doing this, kids. Yeah, kids are out there too. But in terms of like being an interesting, you just do good rapping, it's basically out with the blue slide park for easily. Yeah, yeah. And he was I I mean, that was at a moment where he was like, you know, their trajectory of Mac Miller in retrospect is so crazy because like being outside for kids and best day ever, like he was clearly on a different trajectory, and blue slide park is kind of when we realize like this is as far as that's gonna go. This is as far as swag white boys gonna go. Maybe maybe you can get depressed and then come back.

SPEAKER_02 53:39

But you did.

SPEAKER_00 53:41

Okay, okay, now that you're sad. Um, it's funny that you say that because I went, I was going back through, I went back and listened to uh Best Day Ever, which I rem I remember where I was when Best Day Ever dropped. I remember the mode that I was in and how much it resonated with me, only to then see that same transition with faces. Because I remember where I was when faces came out and how much it resonated with me. I was doing drugs, I was fucked up, but when uh best day ever came out, I was still a kid. I was still a party loving teenager, you know what I mean? Like I hadn't, I hadn't gotten sad too.

SPEAKER_01 54:14

You know, that's what I'm saying. It mirrored all of our experiences so perfectly because we were in high school, like, yeah, a party, woo. And then like eight years later, it's like brother, things have gone bad. Mistakes were made along the way.

SPEAKER_00 54:29

Facts, facts, facts. Well, yeah, I've been on a um a heavy Mac kick. I do feel like, I mean, maybe this is just my like I because I'm not tapped into white culture like that. I feel like white people do not support Mac enough. What does that look like? I don't know. I feel like because I have like I don't I haven't heard a single white guy ever in my life say that Mac Miller was the favorite rapper.

SPEAKER_01 54:57

Yeah. I have, I definitely have. Uh I feel like some of my friends growing up at Peak Mac Mill, I mean not Peak, but at Peak Kids Era, Best Day Ever Era. I feel like that was a lot of my homies' favorite rapper. But a lot of my homies were the white homies. But I think that's the point.

SPEAKER_00 55:19

Yeah, I was like, I feel like that also doesn't count. Not to say, not to dislike disregard that part of his discography, but like I honestly feel like Mac didn't become himself until watching movies with the sound off came out.

SPEAKER_01 55:31

Well, I think the first one he really becomes himself is uh Macadelic, actually.

SPEAKER_00 55:39

I can give you that one. I can give you that one.

SPEAKER_01 55:41

Because that's the one where he says Fight the Feeling with Kendrick and Yeah, Fight the Feelings was so good. He had that fucking that's the moment where you're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa hold on there.

SPEAKER_00 55:54

Hold on there, Chief. One through eight is honestly one of the best tracks I've ever heard. Like, not even to be like to gas like that, but I think the as a person who makes music, the what one through eight is actually him doing is like practicing the cadence of the eight count, like and making a song built around that. It's super cool to me. You know what I mean? Because it's like I just everything about the song is like either existential or like very, very honed in on the artistry. It's like those perfect, um, those two extreme ranges. It's like if you really listen to the album or the song from an artist standpoint, you can hear him honing in on the artistry of like making a song, like crafting the chorus, crafting the three verses. Like you can hear him doing that. And if you listen to the lyrics, he gets he's getting mad existential on that. And that's one of his first songs where he's getting existential like that. That and Angels Cry.

SPEAKER_01 56:43

Um Yeah, that's like the Xanax version of Let the Be Build.

SPEAKER_00 56:48

Yeah, yeah, that's the perfect analogy, yo. I never thought about that. That's the perfect analogy, but I think that um going back to listen to Faces, man. I don't I man, Faces touches me like it gives me like good and bad flashbacks. I'm like, bro, there was at this particular song, there was so much cocaine in my nose.

SPEAKER_01 57:10

You know what I mean? It's too. It's too.

SPEAKER_00 57:13

Yeah, exactly. It's like, yo, like I feel you, brother. I feel you.

SPEAKER_01 57:19

Like no, it's hard for me to go back and listen to like Angel Dust. I'm like, uh I love Angel Dust. I love the song, but it's I'm just like, uh maybe maybe actually don't fuck with it.

SPEAKER_00 57:33

Maybe my favorite song, my favorite part about faces is either um it doesn't even matter, or faces with dash and earl, and that part on um uh Angel Dust, where he's like little Stuart hasn't been in any movies lately. He's been his paychecks on cocaine in late checks, his agent working hard to try to book him a commercial. When I first heard that shit, I'm like, nigga, we going crazy, nigga. Like, we going crazy, like, but yeah, man, like I like I hear what you're saying when you go back and listen to it. It's like God, the whole album is like definitely a cry for help.

SPEAKER_01 58:05

Yeah, I mean, it was it was pretty cry for helpy from that point on, unfortunately. Yeah. Like there's a I don't want to say it's like a uh a bad album, but a lower, like good AM is definitely like lower on the just because the top five-ish are so good. Um, but Perfect Circle, God Speed on um Good AM is like the hardest track, I think, there for me, period, for him to listen to. Because it's just like, yeah, I think I'm gonna die. And what happened would happen if I die, and how would my friends feel if I die? Because I think I'm gonna die. And you're like, hey man, yeah. Don't don't please don't die. Yeah, yeah, it was, yeah, man. I don't you say uh to our white listeners. If you take nothing else from this episode, heed what Zy had to say and please put on for Mac Miller more. We're not gonna.

SPEAKER_00 59:05

Yeah, I we I can't. I can't I can't do more than what I've already done.

SPEAKER_01 59:09

Like it's all y'all now. We're at our capacities. I'm already worried about being called a coon for several transgressions. Um I was thinking today, it's just random more random hip-hop thoughts.

SPEAKER_00 59:30

Is Isaiah Rashad the best rapper in TD? Uh I've been asking myself that for a long time.

SPEAKER_01 59:40

Every time I turned on an Isaiah Rashad album, I'm like, this is perfect.

SPEAKER_00 59:45

Yeah, this is fair. You know, I've been asking myself that a long for a long time, and I feel like the answer is unequivocally yes, if Abso wasn't in TDE. Oh, yeah, I forgot. If Abso wasn't there, unequivocally yes. You know what I mean? But like, nobody, nobody's ever been better than fucking Abso.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:08

Nobody's ever done it. What I'll give to say about Zay that I definitely wouldn't say about Soul, but teach their own. He is the most for me. I've never a bad 20 seconds of a song, never a bad song, never a bad verse, never a lazy hook, never a mid beat. Every song he puts in is so well crafted, it's so like there's never a song that's just like, I'm rich, I got money, haha. It's like, no, every song is like, I'm gonna take you through something.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:40

Um You know what's crazy? Do you remember when the whole the whole bye video came out about him and how he just disappeared after that?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:48

Yeah. Well, I mean, like, disappeared is so weird because he always disappears between albums. Yeah, but I I don't that's When was the last time you've seen Zay do anything anywhere besides perform his music?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:02

This is fair. This is fair. But then I'm saying, like, is he dropping another album? Like, is there another album?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:06

No, he he put he because I'm a fucking internet hip hop nerd. He posted in his Discord recently that the album's turned in. Um so I think we that's why that's why I started uh putting him in back in rotation because I was like, oh, let me go back to the last one. I was like, let me go back to the Sun's tirade. And I was like, let me go back to Sylvia demo. And I'm like, Sylvia demo is crazy.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:29

Yeah, Sylvia demo is one of the best mixtape. Like, I gotta stop saying that because I'm such a mixtape head, and like mixtapes to me are always better than albums, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:38

But I feel like there's more hunger, like every mixtape is like this nigga's trying to get on still, and there's no like exactly yeah, but I feel like before Sylvia Demo came out, a lot of those songs were on this mixtape that was released.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:51

Uh like a DJ had put together all like a lot of his tracks called Welcome to the Game. And Welcome to the Game is Sylvia Demo on crack. Okay, if you've never heard Welcome to the Game, there are songs that are on Sylvia Demo that are fucking fire. Like there's this rapper that he wrote he that he had in the house label that where they had the little end of the indie label that they had, named Michael Da Vinci. Bro, he has some of the best features on any on any Isaiah Rashad song ever. Like, like that, and then YZ Tut. YZ Tut was doing his own thing doing that. Yeah, Tut nice.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:24

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:26

But um, I feel like that's who I wanted to see get more features besides the one that he got on The House of the Burning. I feel like the the house had uh everything that TDE wanted from Isaiah, but like in uh in multiple artists. Like, you know what I mean? Like they were like, they did a thing where I feel like they picked him out of the group or out of the label, but they're like, we want you to do everything your label does just by yourself. You know what I mean? Like we want that sound just from you. We don't want them niggas, we want you to sound like the niggas a little bit, but we want you to still be you. We do not want all of them niggas, though, because there's a lot of it's a lot of niggas in the house. But um, and that's why the album, his second album is called The House of Burning, which I feel like isn't an analogy for the fact that the label is dying. Like, you like, no, I don't think anybody is still assigned to it anymore. Oh, TDE? No, the House of Burning. Oh, the House, okay. Yeah, but what label? The House. That it was called the House. Oh, okay, okay, okay. It's called the House. Um But uh yeah, it's like that, like Welcome to the Game was probably one of the best mixtapes. Sylvia demo is definitely one of his best bodies of work, and it's one of the best ways to get introduced to him, I feel like. Like, if nobody's heard of Zara Shah, you gotta play them Sylvia Demo before you play them anything else. Like, listen to this, my nigga. Like, listen to this shit. And Soliliquy, bro, Soliliquy is one of the best, just straight bars songs from that nigga ever, bro. I got four white girls all arrogan, wonder what they daddy think. Fuck a Mr. Revolution. I'm like, nigga, we cooking. Nigga, we cooking, nigga. Like, I was like, bro, there's there's just so many lines on that album, or yeah, on that album where it's like, like, who is this nigga? You know what I mean? Or like, where is this coming from? Or like, you know what I mean? Like, who is he's due to the game, so unique.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:10

Yeah, it's so unique, but so the best things in like hip-hop and music are art, period, where it's like, this is so unique and also so in homage to like hip-hop and southern hip-hop in particular.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:25

Yeah, nah fact. You know who I who I'm heart still kind of heartbroken about, bro? Big crit. Yeah, I don't know. What is he still putting out albums? He's gotta be, right? No, he's not putting out albums anymore.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:38

He's dropping like you're gonna we'll we'll see. Cam Newton was only 36, by the way. Who? Cam Newton.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:45

He's like 36?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:46

Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:46

That's a big ass nigga for 36? I mean, he was an NFL player.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:52

He wasn't an NFL player.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:54

Nigga's a fucking giant.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:55

Well, you think you think only like 50 year olds get bit? You understand being big isn't really like an age, aged thing.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:03

I hear what you're saying, but hey, I would have not thought 36 in that field nigga.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:07

I would have definitely thought that. You gotta be at least 50 being six foot five at all.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:14

I mean, hey, if you if you six foot whatever under the age of 40, you look like an old nigga. I'm sorry. Like it is what it is.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:22

Uh there was a new crit album in 2025. Uh, what is it called? Digital Roses Don't Die? Dedicated to Cataly Bier Biryatz. Digital Roses Don't Die is 2022. He's put out two cents that then.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:38

Huh, I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:39

Yeah, he's got it. But certainly none of this has crossed my desk.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:45

Yeah, I'm saying, like, I feel like there's like the last thing that I seen from him that he was a part of that I was really, really into was full court press for him and Dizza and Whisk Lethal.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:54

Yeah, especially on a Meg the Stallion song.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:58

I I could totally believe. But yeah, no, um, fucking um Full Count Press is such a good mixtape. I just there's so many artists from that time that I'm like, where are they now? You know what I mean? Like, what are they doing now?

SPEAKER_01 1:06:15

Like, like where's schoolboy at? Oh, for sure. I mean, school boy's playing golf. Every time School Boy is so good, bro. Last time he popped out, because he put out an album beginning of 25. Yeah, so like a year, uh maybe a little bit more than a year ago at this point.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:32

What did he put out what came after Blank Face? Blue Lips. Mmm, okay. You listen to Blue Lips? I honestly don't tap into Q. I don't I only fuck with Q. Not to say I don't like him, because I do love setbacks, I do love habits and contradictions.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:46

Like, I do love you really, you really will be like, I don't really fuck with that nigga. However, his first four albums, pretty much.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:53

Hey, man, hey, I I own that. When the nigga come out and he's hot, I'm checking for it. You know what I mean? But at some point the heat die off. And I'm like, I I just ain't really checking for you no more, bro.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:05

So it's like Nah, Blank Face, he definitely lost me with Blank Face. No, not Blank Face, not uh what's the one with the Tudor Coop popping out like I'm gonna box, nigga. I'm gonna shoot if this for you is all that I got, nigga.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:19

I think that's blank face.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:20

No, that's the one after. That's crash talk. Crash talk is where I hopped out. Blank face is great. Um and then Blue Lips came out in 2024. You like Blue Lips? Blue Lips was uh it's interesting. It's I think it's definitely solid. It's inconsistent, but the highs are high. He's got like alchemist production on there. He's got like just really it's a really cool West Coast album.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:47

I just know Absole feature, it's not a Q album. You you this is I'm gonna throw Absole in every time we talk TD.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:55

Just so you know, there is an Absole feature. Oh, I might have to listen to it. So I might have to listen to it. There you go, Absol's manager.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:02

Hey, I hey, there you go. I would if I'm gonna stand for anybody, it's Lupe Fiasco and Absol. You cannot tell me nothing bad about these niggas, it just doesn't exist. There's not a bad song by this nigga, there's not a bad verse by this nigga.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:16

There's not a bad song by Lupe Fiasco. You're gonna look at me in the eye. You're gonna look you're gonna look me in the eye and say there's not a bad song by Lupe Fiasco. He thinks there's a bad song. There, he doesn't, he doesn't like lasers. He doesn't, he's talking about it.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:28

I mean, the whole that whole album doesn't count, bro. It doesn't count. It doesn't count. Of course. That was my get out of the deal album. You know what I mean? Like, I'm gonna turn in some trash, because fuck y'all. I want to do that.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:39

If we can punt every album, every artist's worst album, then sure. Everyone's great.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:45

No, I don't, I'm not saying that. I'm not saying that, but there's definitely like no get out of the label album is going to be trash. That's the whole point.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:54

Not the first Drogas, Dragas, but like one of them was kind of mid, right? Uh Dragas, Dragus Flight's kind of mid.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:02

So what are we doing? So what are we doing? I still listen to it in cool. You know what I mean? I still, I mean, there's one of the there, I'm not gonna lie. There is um, there is like two tracks in there where I'm like, I kind of force myself to listen to because it's through. I'm like, I gotta hear this album all the way through it when it's and so I'm gonna do it. You know what I mean? But there are definitely two tracks on there where I'm like, ah, I wish you had to put these on there.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:28

I really, the thing is, I really tried when uh FD put out the most recent uh lupe, or not the research, but the lupe video he did. Yeah, I like tried again to really hard, like listening to murals, listening to the uh drogists. I just, it's just too many words. And not even on some like me, like I'm not on some any intellectual shit and not on some hater shit. It's just if I'm listening to a lupe song and I like tune out for like two bars and then I come back. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. I'm like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. So I can't, I just I maybe I don't have the attention span for a lupe song. Cause I'm like, you're no doubt barring up, but I'm actually not sure what we're talking about.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:15

I feel like I feel like that is like after Food and Liquor 2. I feel like every album after Food and Liquor 2 is kind of that where it's like going crazy, but what are we talking about again? You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 1:10:27

It's like there's clearly a lot of things, like you were touching on a lot of things, but the actual like message or succinctness, it's like I think you just read a lot of stuff and you're like you have all this floating around in your mind, and you're, you know what I mean? That's obviously a talent and cool. But in terms of being like a listenable or even like a follow-alongable narrative for a song, I'm like, hey, bro, I will say four and a half minutes in.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:54

And I will say though, though, like I don't think that he's ever dropped a bad bar. I feel like if you take the time to tune into it and like actually pay attention to it, like, because I'm not gonna die. It's a lot of words and it's hard to keep up with it in a cohesive manner. But like if you do keep up with it cohesively, he like it, it there's never a bad bar. You know what I mean? Like, there's never a bar that's like, oh, what do you like? Why is this in the song or whatever? And I feel like the same can be said for Abso. I feel like there's not a single Abso song that I've listened to where I'm like, oh man, this this doesn't make sense. Why did you say that? Like, you nobody can give me a bad Abso song, and I've been waiting for somebody to give me one for years. And if you give me one, I'm gonna tell you why you're wrong. So it's like there's that. Like, there's no bad. Come on, come on with it. Uh what is the what is the struggle? You see the struggle?

SPEAKER_01 1:11:45

No, I'm I'm thinking of the song. I'm trying to think of the full bar. Because the second half of the bar is kicked it, then I scored soccer game. She was a phony goalie. I gotta create a what's the it's potty train. Uh let me put your mouth where you potty boo. Them niggas piss ne the potty train they movement shit. I mean, it is bars, but that's not a bad bar, bro. Kick the the night scored soccer game is it's it's very, you know what it is? It's very young money 2010s coded, like Nicki Minaj, Tiger level bars randomly.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:27

I feel like my bias took over because when I heard that, I was like, yo, kick the night scored soccer game.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:34

She was a phony goalie. Like, what? What are you talking about?

SPEAKER_02 1:12:39

I was like, I was like, we cooking.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:43

Literally, what is he cooking? I am probably one of the most biased hip hop fans. I I own it. Like, I'm literally.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:50

I mean, everyone is biased. Your biases are just more obtuse than the regular, uh, our regular biases. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:58

Um I'm one of the most I'm one of the most bias. I own it, I own it, I own it.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:05

Uh all right, before we get off, you gotta listen to the Mike Will made it, just put out an album. You see that? No, I didn't. Who's on it though? 21 Savage, Mona Leo, Travis Porter, Saw Baby, Thug. Uh Leo is on a generational run. Yeah, she's kind of she's kind of tough. And the song she's on, which is a it's a her and Travis Porter song, it's pretty tough.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:29

Oh, yeah, that's the is that the OMG?

SPEAKER_01 1:13:31

Uh Standing O. Standing O.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:33

Yeah, Standing O, yeah, yeah. Hey.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:36

There's a Teezo and Ludacris song. That's tough. Yeah. Uh there's a Chief Keefe and Youngboy song, the J. Cole songs, whatever. There's a OJ the Juice Man song. Uh, there's a little new little Keed song.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:50

Did he do the Metro booming but better?

SPEAKER_01 1:13:53

Uh funny that you just automatically assumed it was better based on nothing. Uh the the shade at Metro based on just reading the track list is crazy. But um it did get it, this is gonna open up a whole nother conversation, and I unfortunately don't have time to do it right now. Maybe we can next week do the Mike Will versus Metro.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:19

Uh does anybody on the Mike Will album say shit your whole ass up and make some drums?

SPEAKER_01 1:14:25

No, I don't I don't think so. Drake's not on there.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:28

I'd say they missed a good chance.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:31

I'd say it's like I'll I'll save like comparing Mike Will and Metro for uh because I think that's actually an interesting conversation we could have. But I will say, um I mean it's hard to compare because Metro's done like three solo albums at this solo, but three produced excuse me, three my albums at this point. Maybe four, actually, because he did the Spider-Man soundtrack.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:58

Yeah, that whole thing was uh produced by Will.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:00

So he's done three or four at this point, and Mike Will's done one, so it's hard to compare, especially considering like Metro's pretty much had hits on all the ones he's put out, and it's probably too early to say uh about this Mike Will one, though I don't really see any of these songs being hits, just because uh no who knows what songs are hit anymore, you know. So I who cares? Um, but no, it's tight to see a Mike Will and B, the collabs. Like there's Travis Porter and Monoleo, there's uh Chief Keefe and Youngboy are on a song.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:33

Um that's what that's why I'm like, I I don't know how I feel about Youngboy, man, because I keep hearing that he's this he he sails out of arenas, and I just it blows my mind when I hear that. Kind of like, who the fuck is listening to Youngboy like that?

SPEAKER_01 1:15:45

I've the there's two songs I like now, and I think I'm gonna try and find more songs I like. Because he's he's a really good rapper, and he's very it's like clearly southern. You know, like all the it has all the component parts to songs I should like. You know what I mean? So I'm gonna do the same thing. There there's got I'm gonna maybe we'll do a a young boy episode. Uh maybe we'll both pick a young boy album and listen to it or something. Because he does have like 75 albums, too. So we can't just be like, hey bro, let's just go listen and report back. We gotta pick something similar. So maybe we'll do that. Um in addition to talking about Mike Will and shit. Any uh any closing thoughts?

SPEAKER_00 1:16:31

Um white people need to stay at Mac Millimour and Kendrick's a grifter.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:37

Uh I love how you just shake your head like I'm gonna do that.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:40

No, you can't engage with that. Uh uh black or what would what did we decide? White people with Tourette's still can't say nigga. Um that's gonna be we're gonna stay signing off with that. There was one more. What else are we fucking talking about? Oh, uh it's so mean. Let me put my mouth where you potty boo. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:03

I feel like Safio sexual removes all of that. I feel like Safio sexual.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:28

I'm making wit. I'm in a dick, I'm on the face, you want a lake, I'm gonna cut, I'm the packs, I'm the pick, I'm the bitch, I licked a switch, look at the wrist, trying to have kids, trying to grass. She wanna pick, I'll get your bat, she wanna kiss, I'm gonna lie, the bitch, I'm a pack, pick a bitch, black. I'm with your pack, I wish you on the highway, but on the driveway, bottlene like the brown job, that's hiring, white bitches like my like me because I'm waify, white chat on a glass, black and silver spiky, whiskey in my chai tea. As you need to tie me, I buy her some herb meat. Baby, it's your birthday. I want you to broadly come and sit on my face, even if it's a big cramp, fucking relax. Ain't like or you can hate, yes, cram, for that. I want your bag, I should look, yes, cram, for that, and watch your backs, and my shit white. Yes, cram, fucking relax. Yes, cramp for like or can we cram for your bag, cushion the crack, yes, cramp for your bags, and my shit wake. We have to come out, crime role, come on, crime role, and then we're gonna be able to do that.