Creme World
Comedian and host Creme Brulee actively trying to figure out what their podcast is gonna be.
Creme World
Megan Thee Stallion got cheated on, 2 former cheaters tell you why - with Xaii Kuu
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Nba goofball Klay Thompson cheated on hall of fame baddie Megan Thee Stallion and two n-words with checkered pasts are here to smoke newports and yap about the patriarchy and how weird dudes online are. That's the whole hour, I actually think it's one of the more interesting conversations we've had bc it's unfortunately extremely vulnerable. Please leave a like and subscribe and comment if we dated in my 20s.
It's that's cool. Uh uh fucking brilliant. You can like or you can hate. I want your bag, which you look great. Yeah, it's cracking brulee.
SPEAKER_01It's so crazy. Just middle of the conversation after be like, okay, you want to start talking for real now? Um, not talking for real, but uh this is the whatever, we both get it. Um yeah, welcome to the crime world podcast. Uh episode whatever. I am half your host. I'm Krim Brolet. Uh here we have I'm Zah, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_04I'm outside right now, and I'm able to be outside because as you see on the neck, we got the mic set up. This why it still sounds crispy, and I'm moving around. You know, I'm not locked in front of the computer screen and shit.
SPEAKER_01So Yes, I I sent Zai a mic, and I was I thought I was gonna send uh the you uh the one for the phone and also a computer one, but I was like, you know what? Let me just send the computer one right now and we'll we'll cross the getting you an iPhone one when we get to it. And the very next week, you're like, all right, I'm gonna be in Vancouver for a month, and it's like, all right, cool. This could have been one box, but it is what it is. Uh glad to have you being crispy. Uh we were just talking about what the the big thing I think we're gonna talk about. I I want to talk about Michael Jackson too, because I feel like there's a lot there. Um, and I'm sure we'll find a way to segue uh at some point to
Klay Thompson, Meg Thee Stallion, and the NFL Cheating Drama
SPEAKER_01that. But the first topic I wanted to talk about is cheating, because cheating is very I don't want to say in right now, but definitely it's always been in. Um but it's definitely um been talking a lot. Yeah, the topic conversation with Klay Thompson and Meg the Stallion, uh Klay Thompson cheating on her. Have you heard anything about this NFL cheating scandal at all? No, what's going on in the NFL? Okay, so the cliff notes, because I'm sure a lot of people who are listening haven't heard either, but this has been like the biggest story in the NFL the past two weeks. Um, this reporter named Diana Rossini and this NFL head coach named Mike Rabel, who used to play for the Patriots, uh, won a Super Bowl and now coaches for the Patriots. They are both married to other people, and they basically pictures came out of both of them at a resort. Uh not not like kissing or anything, but like interlacing fingers and like doing a lot of real heavy, romantic-looking, intimate shit. Um, these pictures come out, she denies it. He basically is like, I gotta go to rehab. Um, which is the as I'll bring up later, because that's also a move I've pulled.
SPEAKER_04So I I need to go to rehab for cheating or just other things.
SPEAKER_01You he just he just said he was seeking counseling, so he just so he doesn't actually acknowledge it at all. Um, but yeah, says he's seeking counseling. After you know, they have both kind of he she she's outright denied it, he's kind of tried to brush it under the rug. Then photos came out of them six years ago, uh, in 2020, at a club making out after she already tried to say it wasn't real. People have been going through all of their internet history, their digital footprints, if you will, and they have been extremely messy with this. The best example I can give you is this woman, Diana Rossini, uh cheating with this man, Mike Vrabel. Her son that she had with her husband, she named Mike, Michael, after this man, and she put out a tweet while she like the day after she had her kid, just being like, Wow, sitting here with my son Michael, just thinking about who are the best NFL head coaches slash players to ever have the name Michael. A tweet that can only be about him. So, yeah, so that's what's happened in the NFL concurrently with this Klay Thompson NBA cheating thing. What's your what's your reac quick reaction to that story? Sports are down, bad. Sports are down. I mean, sports are where they've always been, if we could keep it a stack.
SPEAKER_04That's that's well, I will say this that more more women are now gonna be in tune in sports, you know what I mean, which is like for basketball and football based off of stories.
SPEAKER_01I know, I know you think you think some woman's like, hey, I heard I heard this nigga cheated on Meg. Let me tune in.
SPEAKER_04You think no idea how many posts I've seen of people putting up clay stacks and like putting up whack he ain't even he ain't even leBron, you know what I mean? Like, and it's all coming from women, like it's all coming from the stallions, you know what I mean? And so uh they're all like he ain't even LeBron, he ain't he treating no Meg like he fucking Kobe or something. Like, look at his numbers. I'm like, do you I don't know his numbers, so do you know his numbers? No, they know his numbers, and so I feel like as much as as facetious as it is, I do believe that like because athletes like dating and like being with an athlete has always kind of been in as far as like like the nigga you want type shit. I feel like now more women are gonna be checking, maybe not in general, but the women who may have access to these guys, you know, the men who are like they're gonna be more up on like what they doing and how they perform because performance in the NBA and in the NFL determines celebrity, you know what I mean? And so if you're performing better and you're getting paid more, your numbers is better, you probably got more pussy being thrown at you. And so that's a little bit more of a red flag for like people who want to date you to be on the lookout for, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01And so, but personally though, like I feel like with the whole clay
Unpacking Infidelity: Access, Guilt, and Personal Histories
SPEAKER_01and meg thing, like Yeah, before you before you jump in, just break down the clay and meg thing as you see it for people who may not be up.
SPEAKER_04So we pretty sure everybody knows who Megastallion is, and you may not know who Clay Thompson is. He's one of the he's the second best shooter on the Golden State Warriors, honestly, the best if you look at recent numbers, but like he is he is like Steph, Steph number two. You know what I mean? I'm sure you know who Steph Curry is. Clay Thompson is like if Stara Curry had a brother who was also could do light skinned.
SPEAKER_01Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_04Light skin Steph does, but wasn't Steph. And so um though Steph does have a brother in the NBA, doesn't he?
SPEAKER_01Like a brother, yeah, they're on the same team. Steph, set Steph and Seth, which that's a freaky thing to do as a parent.
SPEAKER_04That is, you know, people do that when they have they're not twins, are they?
SPEAKER_01No, yeah, no.
SPEAKER_04People, people, you know, names aren't people aren't as creative with names, you know.
SPEAKER_01I mean, they do have a white mother, so there's gotta uh we gotta uh I can't stand for that. I cannot I I simply I would love to stand for that. I simply cannot stand for that in good conscience. But um um so Clay cheated on Meg, apparently, and Meg left him in did she make a song about it, or like she made No, so yeah, they had been dating for a couple of months, and it had it just became this really social media popular relationship. Um, if I could say you know anything about the nature of the relationship, as far as we know. There was a lot of cute pictures and posts that they were putting up of each other that were going viral. There was a picture of like Clay in the background of one of her uh photo shooters, like with holding a big ass stick that people were like making fun of. There was videos of like her cooking all his family, uh Thanksgiving dinner and shit. So not only were they dating, but they did it seemed like they were making an effort to like, you know, be kind of everyone look at how happy we are about it, which uh I to be honest though, those those relationships typically I won't say like end in infidelity and necessarily, but always be wary of the relationships that are you know seem performative for sure.
SPEAKER_04To be honest though, I don't think that the that error like the narrative of them being so happy together isn't true just because he cheated. Because like that isn't like people don't always need to be unhappy to cheat, you know what I mean? Like a lot of times for for men like that, and just for like masculine people in general for the most part, it's just access, you know what I mean? Like if it's put in front of you and like the person is attractive or whatever, then like not eight times out of ten, you're gonna fall, you know what I mean. And so it's like especially when like the person that I imagine I would want to hope to believe, but the person that uh Clay cheated with is also a Meg the Stallion-esque woman, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01When we get to like talking about beauty and like status and like just the person, I mean, and so I we could hope that and there's rumors about it, but I think it's kind of a trope, and in my own experience, I guess I'll say after this, we can we should both uh talk about our own experiences in this. Um but in my experience at least, the person that gets cheated on, you the the the mistress, usually less of a baddie. You know, I nine times out of ten, in my opinion, the mistress, you're it's you're rarely cheating up.
SPEAKER_04You know, that's that is like you said, a trope, but that in my experience has not always been true, at least from my perspective who is talking or who is observing, or like what somebody but you're not wrong, that tends to be like the normal, that tends to be the norm, you know what I mean? Like nobody nobody really cheats up. Most people cheat down, but um I I want to believe Clay got I would I like to be a for what like what do you what do you get out of believing that he cheated up? Just because like my nigga, it's Meg the Salian. Like if you're not cheating up, what you doing? You at least cheat sideways, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01Like at least cheat parallel. So well, a lot of cheat and so now is at the point where I think it's not important to say, but I feel necessary to say, and you could talk about it whatever comfortable, uh to whatever length you're comfortable, but not currently. That would be crazy if I was literally currently, but um I've I've cheated before. Um, it's been it probably was uh issue for me in my 20s. I say that now as someone who's only 30. Um, but like, you know, I went to treatment for alcoholism and I've been clean since, and I mean that in multiple capacities. Um so I don't, you know, I don't know. I don't think people are gonna judge me too crazy on that. If you know me, you know, I have uh a checkered past, to say the least. Um
Is Monogamy Natural? Choosing Satisfaction in Relationships
SPEAKER_01but I do think it's good context to give uh going into this conversation because I do also want to turn this or like have this be a conversation that examines like what we think about monogamy as a concept, right? Yeah, for sure. So I mean, how much do you feel about it?
SPEAKER_04I mean, like, um, like you said, like I have a checkered pass too, and just to keep it above 50, I think every relationship that I've been in, I've cheated. Like, you know what I mean? Like, and that's just as from a young man, from a preteen to a teenager to uh uh in my 20s and stuff like that. Like I guess I could say I had a problem, but I feel like my problem was never like, ooh, I'm unhappy, you know what I mean. My problem was always like, damn, she's fine too. You know what I mean? Like that, and then like like that being the case, because also every time I cheated, like I was very like with the person I was cheating with, like, I'm in a relationship, you know what I mean? And so like the ball is in your court, you know what I'm saying? I'm telling you this because clearly I'd fuck you, you know what I mean. But like, like, if you don't want to do that, I'm not finna sweat you either, you know what I mean? I'm not finna put the pressure on you knowing I'm in a relationship, you know what I mean? And so like, but that's like you said, like that was in my 20s and being being 30, I turned 32 this year, yeah, being 32 or 31. Um I have grown past past that in a sense, though it took me a minute, it took me up until the stroke to kind of figure out what it was for real, for real. Like what was like what the nature of what where that came from within me was, but I've learned to kind of see past my lust in a sense, you know what I mean? And so it's like trying to behave around that, and I say this as a like I don't want to be like I'm reformed and no shit, but like as a man who definitely struggled with like monogamy and laws here, and like in my early 20s and in my 20s in general, but especially in my um my preteen and teenage years, I don't feel like um I don't feel like I deserve any like credit or whatever for maturing past that, you know what I mean? I feel like a lot of I feel like a lot of men at some point do. I also feel like for every person, man, woman, whatever, if you have an issue with monogamy, you do eventually find the person where you're like, you know what? I don't really want to jeopardize this, but for for my sense of lust. Because she never fulfills anything, you know what I mean? Like you never you never get up from whatever and feel better about it, you know what I mean? At least in my case, like after doing it, every time I would think, like, oh, my girl or my partner or whatever, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, it's I'd say it's stressful even during the whole time it's stressful. It's just like a werewolf kind of driving the car, if that makes sense. So it's like, mm-hmm, do I wanna and that's not to absolve myself any of our shelves of accountability of our actions, but but that's just how it feels.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, exactly. I feel like though, you know, like yeah, it's just you feel it it immediately is followed by guilt, no matter how much pleasure it is, you're immediately flooded with guilt. If you actually care about the person you cheated on, you know what I mean? A lot of people don't give a fuck and that's why they cheat. But if you care about the person you cheated on, you're immediately flooded with guilt. And it's um, yeah, I feel like it's uh, at least for me being a man, like it's um, it just makes me question so many things about myself, you know what I mean? Like, does this make me a bad man? Does this make me a bad person or a bad partner? Am I a safe man to be with? Am I the stand-up guy that I want to be? You know, all those other things. And so I feel like I don't know if that's everybody's struggle or everybody's like mindset around it or behind it. But for me in particular, I was I'm always like, I don't think this is the guy I want to be. You know what I mean? Like, I don't think that this is the person, this is how I want to carry myself or how I want to move. And um it just takes a minute to like commit to that in a way, you know what I mean? So it's like again, just speaking from my own experience, for me, it took me a long time to choose to be satisfied. And I feel like like that is a real thing because like you're never gonna find the perfect person, you're never gonna find the person where you're like there is nothing that I wouldn't change about you, you know what I mean? Except for yeah, I don't I don't think you'll ever find that person. I think everybody has like, you don't you don't think you're better than anybody, but everybody would would want to make a tweak, you know what I mean? It's like if I can make you perfect, which you can't, it doesn't exist. And so it's like you're always gonna, the grass is always gonna be green on the other side, and everybody that you don't know, you don't know their struggles, you don't know their turmoils, you don't know the nature of their behavior. You just most of the time you're just going off the look of a person, you know what I mean? And so it's like you may think the grass is green on the other side, but then you actually entangle with this person, you're like, you know what, this is more stressful than just being in the relationship that I'm already in, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01And so sorry. Go ahead, no, go ahead.
SPEAKER_04What are you gonna say?
SPEAKER_01Well, I was so back, you what you said, which I think was like rang the truest for me, is like at some point you make a choice to be satisfied. Yeah, be satisfied, right? And I think that can get to like a question of like, do you feel like monogamy is natural versus being, you know, kind of the social agreement we have, because not to again like excuse our behavior by saying it's natural, you know, like this is what we're supposed to do, that kind of rhetoric. But I don't know. I think I still philosophically fall into thinking that at least for me, and based on the experiences I've had, because I grew up in a situation where like I saw my mom go through bad relationship after bad relationship. I saw almost everyone in my family be in some kind of relationship that I didn't view as what I wanted out of life, I guess I could say to be most basic about it. So that has kind of shaped me into having a more nihilistic view of our ability as humans to be monogamous, which I don't think is necessarily like true, but it is my view of the world. And I think the times I cheated, you know, some of them were even in, I think most of them were in situations where I was in a non-monogamous situation, but I was still being dishonest and yeah, not uh respecting boundaries, I guess, that my partner had put up.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, no, I think that that is like even outside of monogamy, like boundaries, like once you cross the boundaries, you're cheating. But do I believe monogamy is natural? Not at all. I believe that it I do believe 100% that it's a social agreement, but I also feel like it's only polygamy is only really difficult, and monogamy is just easier because like the boundaries, like dealing with multiple boundaries, and nobody is ever, from my perspective or my experience, nobody's ever gonna feel the same about the same thing. But uh, what I was saying was um it's just so much easier. And I do believe like satisfaction is a choice, you know what I mean. I believe that like you do like at some point, you just be like, you know what? I'm good on all this turmoil and all this extra, you know what I mean. And that's kind of where I came to with it. I'm like, you know what? All of this is a lot, you know what I mean. Like trying to juggle this and like trying to make myself happy and myself satisfied while also having this partner that I want to make happy and satisfied as well, and those two things like like not converging like you think they would, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01Like, and so it's like like your expectations and your partner's expectations, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_04And so it's like I always felt like um I always felt like what made me happy and satisfied was tough on my partner because like I don't get full easy when it comes to love, you know what I mean? Like I have a very high capacity for intimacy and like being able to be within myself and have multiple feelings for multiple people, you know what I mean? Like that's just not as difficult for me as it is for every for what it seems to be everybody else. And um I constantly hear this thing like, oh, you can't love two people, you can't love two people, and I don't I don't believe that that's true. You know what I mean? I don't believe that it's true that you can't love two people. And so um, why did it say zoom?
SPEAKER_01But um I think it's like go ahead. Yeah, I think the idea of you can't love two people is like just from just from like an aspect of like community is so weird. I think well, I I think first of all, like the way we use love, and I've talked, I don't think I've talked about this on this podcast. It used to be something I ranted about a lot in person, but just the way we use love societally, um, is we all mean different things, and at every different time, like I use I use love in three different ways, like multiple different ways. Everyone uses love in multiple different ways, and we all are just assuming we know what everybody means, if that makes sense. What I'm saying is we should have more specific terms for the type of maybe we should have more specific terms. I don't know. Perhaps it would be more easy rhetorically to have more specific terms for love. But in terms of like intimate, romantic, forever quote unquote love, the idea that that could only be one person doesn't make sense if you just look at people who like have really long, fulfilling like marriages and then someone dies and then they continue. The person who's left like falls in love again. Like, boom. Why is that not possible while without someone dying, essentially?
SPEAKER_04Yeah. I think that um I think that it's it is, it's just like I don't know personally. Like I feel like some people when they get when they they like lock in on that one person and they don't open they don't allow themselves to remain open to that you know what I mean like it took that in that marriage example it took that person to die before they before that person like ventured on or whatever you know what I mean and like I don't think like you're saying like I don't think it has to be until somebody dies but I think that until once you're like locked in with that person until that person's not there anymore you don't you're not really open to locking in with somebody else you know what I mean and it takes time for that to hap for that to happen time and or some kind of definite like it will never be again you know what I mean like like that person's dead you know what I mean or like there's there is no way to get back to that person there is no that person's gone you know what I mean and so that kind of is what it is but I feel like that's not always that's not always the case and I don't think that's always necessary because I feel like the only thing that's truly necessary for that to like be accepted is like can those two loves exist within the boundaries of each other you know what I mean like and that's like that's the real difficult part about it because it's like one love may have this set of boundaries and that set of boundaries might encroach on the needs of the other love. You know what I mean? And so like one of your partners or whatever the case may be like I don't want this level of intimacy between y'all and then the other partner might be like I need that exact level of intimacy. You know what I mean? And so it's like you run into those problems a lot when it comes to like multiple loves or whatever the case may be. I think that boundaries beyond specific terms I think boundaries need to be established within the term you know what I mean like what people saying which probably is more specific terms but it's like all right when you say love what are what is the boundaries of that for you? Like what does that actually look like what does the the edge of that love look like for you before it's it you before it tips over you know what I mean and so which I don't mean you know push people to the edge or whatever you know that's not what I'm saying at all. But at the same time boundaries vary person to person and interaction to interaction and experience to experience and so it's like I think you just have to be open to the sense that you can look like you have to that that just has to be something in your brain that your like your brain computes easily and I don't think a lot of people do. I think that whether that be societal like structuring or whatever the case may be I don't think a lot of people are just open to that you know I mean like the idea of like oh I am able to love multiple people like I think a lot of people like you see the movies and you see all the things that the media and the world puts towards you it's always one-on-one. Even back in the this the Bible Adam and Eve was just one on one so it's like whenever you see something that's not one on one you're like that can't be right. Like there has to be something that's not there has to be something lacking there. You know what I mean like it can't be everybody can't be satisfied or happy in that I think that's when when polygamy took off not took off but when it became a more mainstream concept that was the number one like thing that people try to point out right somebody and they're not happy you know what I mean and like the idea that everybody is happy and satisfied is just hard for people to grasp. You know what I mean like I was watching uh Kevin on stage he does this tour with Tony Baker called the Ball Brothers tour and they stopped in Dallas um and in the episode there was a lot of polygamous relationships and it was just you could just tell by the conversation and the crowd reaction it was just really really hard for people to grasp the fact that everybody in this space is happy you know what I mean but optically looking in and based off how they were explaining their situation or whatever it did genuinely seem like they were all in the space of comfort with it you know what I mean or in the space where being satisfied in it. And again I believe satisfaction is a choice. I believe as much as we say we don't have any control of the heart and how love sways us I believe a majority of it is a choice. I believe you have to stop with yourself and be like all right I'm about to make a decision that's going to lead to this outcome am I okay with that decision or like can I exist comfortably in that decision or do I choose to exist comfortably in that decision. You know what I mean? Like am I going to make this choice and rock with it and like stand 10 toes on it. You know what I mean? And I feel like when that choice is one person, then you're choosing to be satisfied is not settling. You know what I mean? Like I feel like we have this concept of settling I don't think that I think choosing to be satisfied is not settling at all. Like that you are you found something that fills your cup and like you are choosing to not need more in your cup you know what I mean or to like like say somebody like in that same analogy like somebody gave you a cup of water you know what I mean and maybe the cup's not completely full but you're choosing to take what they've given you and you're choosing to drink that and be quench your thirst with that you know what I mean and so it's like I think that monogamy and satisfaction work the same way. It's like all right your cup may not be full and that's okay. You know what I mean? Like are you going to make the choice to take what you have and enjoy what you have and quench your thirst with that. And if you're not gonna make that choice then the consequence of that is the cup never being full. You know what I mean? Like you're probably never ever going to get to the brim of what you want. You'll probably never have all of what you want. You'll probably always be missing something in regards to I feel like well it's a deeper the deeper philosophic idea of like you know learning to be grateful for what you have is the only way to counteract wanting just having desire infinitely projecting out of you and never truly being satisfied I feel like that's a hundred percent true but I also feel like like is that wrong to never be satisfied and to always want more because I feel like maybe it starts assistic but the most successful people you know what I mean like they never stop you know what I mean like I mean it dep it depends what your metrics of success are.
SPEAKER_01Is your metric of success like inner peace or is your metrics of success money? Because those are those you know what I mean like if you if you choose to not be satisfied then sure you can go crazy trying to be the greatest of all time but all the people who are the greatest of all time as we'll get to are crazy. So pick your
How the Patriarchy Shapes Relationships and Online Discourse
SPEAKER_01poison. I think in terms of what you were saying about like uh people not being able to like people looking at and judging and not understanding how people you know could exist in polyamorous or polygamous relationships is how and big apologies. I wanted to make sure we said uh we addressed the patriarchy up top for this discussion we have we are too far in I'm embarrassed how far we are in you can see on my notes it says clay and meg right under it just says patriarchy I was like we gotta we gotta start by addressing the patriarchy because especially coming from like two negative so we've just understanding and especially when it comes to Meg in the scenario and the discourse around Meg that we're having to go through I don't even know how many times we've had to go through this level of discourse where like j just this woman who's done nothing but be successful and beautiful is kind of constantly the target from like a specific sort of internet person or just person, uh generally man, but also women in general because of how hard the patriarchy cooks is constantly uh the target for just ire for the sake of hating her because yeah because she's this successful independent woman who is like confident and doesn't really and is like well aware of the patriarchy and is trying to like openly fight against all the ways in which she's being oppressed as a black woman specifically looking at even things like her label deal initially and how she was kind of fucked up with that. So acknowledging the patriarchy and all this but that is to say um we live in a society where the relationships due to the patriarchy are so much about possession and the idea to some people that like the person so many people look at relationships like the person I'm with is mine.
SPEAKER_04This is my item it's I know it sounds like black and white but if you look at how especially heteronormative conservative traditional relationships work the wife is in particular the wife is the husband so polyam I am definitely um like uh what's the word I'm at fault with that you know I mean I've definitely had that in my nature before especially with uh a former partner of mine who you know very well I was very much so like that's mine you know what I mean and like I don't want nobody else to have it have her or want it or nothing like that you know what I mean and so um that's strictly the patriarchy and like my even when they tried to venture into their lane of the open aspect of our relationship like I was very much so like offended almost you know what I mean like my feelings were really hurt which I imagine the same goes for her you know what I mean but I didn't like I felt differently about it as a man you know what I mean like it felt just it just registered different for me which is strictly due to me not being outside the patriarchy within my behavior in those moments you know what I mean but look like you said to address it up top I'm well aware I have been a proponent of it myself and so it's like it is I don't want to say inevitable but the same way like racism is kind of ingrained in our society it's something that like you have to actively like be self-aware of and like push against and it's like if you don't do that it's going to show up in your behavior regardless of if you consider yourself that or not is if you haven't done the work to understand what that is and push against that in your behavior it's gonna be what it is.
SPEAKER_01You're gonna show it's gonna show its face no matter who you are no matter what the context is which I am a proponent of you know what I mean so I can speak to that directly but I also feel like um in the say in the space with Meg I feel like people just like black men just love to hate black women for whatever reason you know what I mean like it seems to be like a pastime like and I feel like the black red pill space is like I want to say more destructive than the conservative white red pill space because black men have more desire to get a one up on somebody or to be able to be like see you also not shit you know what I mean well I also say the black red pill niggas have more social capital in the black community than the white red pill niggas have in the white community if that makes sense. Like the black red pill niggas are like low-key not too far off the regular way niggas think but like the white red pill niggas are seen as like crazy you know what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_04Exactly exactly and I think that's I think that speaks to like in the communities like the amount of power that we give the tears of women because like we all know as we know as black people the tears of a white woman are the most powerful force on earth you know what I mean in regards to like the tears of a black woman being like the the the weakest tower like that's just even for sure just a crazy thing to have to hear but yeah. Nobody cares about when black women cry or when black women hurt and especially within the community of of blackness or of black people black woman starts crying people like why are you so angry like facts but a white woman starts crying it's like oh my god Sarah what can we do? What can we do? Are you okay you know what I mean who needs to go to jail so it's like I think that um in that space I feel like like that's why the black red pill niggas have more platform because black men it's like all men are very much are very quick to dismiss the tears of their female counterparts whatever whatever demographic it is you know what I mean I feel like that's the patriarchy and the patriarchy exists. I feel like the patriarchy exists like before nationalism was the thing you know what I mean before like we could like regionalize cultures and like demographically separate cultures like it's like before we was niggas and before we was Latinas or whatever patriarchy was already there. You know what I mean? It was already like doing its thing. And so I think in the space with Meg and sad it is to say niggas just don't care what she's talking about because she's Meg the Stallion you know what I mean and because she has a body count of whatever the fuck like as if it's just so weird to me to hear that because like we said that about women as if like being able to tell your homies oh I fucked this many women this week isn't like a badge of honor. You know what I mean? Like like it's just it's just weird to me to like when that is a point of conversation because it's like bro let if regardless of what her number is or her body count is it don't matter like she's a lot of the conversation has been about like people being like wow clay smashed a lot of baddies like that's been like part of the conversation you see on the other side it's cool.
SPEAKER_01It's like the perfect example of like what we're talking about.
SPEAKER_04He's been the option you know what I mean like that's um that's just weird man that's just weird I feel like though let me let me not let me not
The Nuance of Body Count and Relational Accountability
SPEAKER_04cap I feel like it there does have to come a level of accountability even with men I feel like if you are very free with your body you have to be comfortable with somebody having whatever feeling about that you know what I mean like like like let's say you know you have a partner and you have a body count of whatever you know what I mean and your tendencies in the past were like oh I was moving like this with my body and I was moving like this in my relationships if that person chooses to be with you or not be with you or whatever like that your body count then becomes relevant.
SPEAKER_01You have to be like even if you don't want it to be like if if the person chooses not to be with you based on your body count yeah yeah I feel like if like that's valid are you saying that's just valid? I I think yeah I think that everybody has the right to choose I feel like that's valid in like in the space of like I personally feel like it's weird but I I I think it is anyone's right to feel weird about a body count.
SPEAKER_04I don't think that it I don't think that it's weird. I think that um I think the only time it gets weird is when you use it as a fuel for like internal resentment within your relationship. Which is another thing we need to talk about too where like Do you care about body count?
SPEAKER_01Um like like let's let's be clear here like clearly there are certain uh things that could come with a high quote unquote high body count that would be deterrent that we're not talking about yeah you know different STDs STIs children uh having a lot of niggas just being around a lot of niggas all the time if that is the case things like that sure but just pure on its face high body count you have a problem with no I don't have a problem with I got questions though I'm I'm a I'm a type of person You were asking about body count on a date okay not like not on a date but like if we're finna lock in in a relationship I do want to know your past you know what I mean I do want to know your relationship past I think relationship past is a different question than body count though.
SPEAKER_04No I feel like if your relationship past is like you've only been in three real relationships that you were considered but your body count is 10. Like we got something to talk about you know what I mean like what was were you just were you just like what was that space you know what I mean like where what was where were you at when you were not in a relationship and you were still in a like interacting or intertwining with people on an intimate level you were y'all were fucking like where where were you at what was the even for me like I don't think you know like that's a a wrong thing to be curious about or want to ask because like I from my experience like I have only been in maybe five relationships but I I have a relatively high body count. You know what I mean? So it's like if my partner asked me about that okay I'm not grossed out by you but like I have questions because you've only been in five relationships but you've had relations with this many people what was what were those relations like were y'all just was it these blurred lines of like y'all were friends and like that line got blurred and do you have an issue with that? Is that like something you tend to struggle with with your level of intimacy with your friends like what you know what I mean like it's not even about like what your body count is like what were the boundaries within yourself when you were when this was happening you know what I mean like for me to kind of be aware going forward like again like is this something what I need to be are these boundaries and behaviors something that I need like that you still struggle with and that I need to be privy to or aware of in choosing to interact with you or engage with you on that level. You know what I mean? Because like going back to what we're saying about choosing to be satisfied with in monogamy like if I'm choosing you to be my person and you have a tendency to be like for your boundaries to be rather weak and not you don't stand on them firmly when it comes up with people like like I need to know that you know what I mean like by if I'm like do I need to worry like just keep it a buck 50 do I need to be worried that you're gonna cheat on me because you you a little loose you know what I mean like is that some sure but let's let's keep it a buck here could you not turn that same thing back on yourself? No no that's like that's for my like I was saying earlier for my partner like I've only been in five relationships and I have I have an and uh a pretty high body count so if my partner was to be like hey what was that and like is this something I'm gonna have to be like is this a behavior pattern that you have based off what you were feeling or like what was that you know what I mean like help me understand who you are and where you were in that time in that was that like a rough space in your life where you were kind of just not caring about yourself or like what was it? You know what I mean? Because a lot of people who tend to have high body counts tend to have trauma associated with their lives you know what I mean sure do you know what I mean like you know so it's like you tend to enter a phase where it's like I didn't give a fuck you know what I mean like I didn't care about my body I didn't care about the people that I was with none of that meant anything to me and it's like okay that's entirely valid have you worked through that or and or do you need help to continue to work through that because with that being said and known I still want you to be my person because I still love you for the person that I know you to be but if that is also a part of your personality and I'm aware of that and I still choose that do we need do you need to continue to work on that like where are you with that you know what I mean and so it's like but also that's a very nuanced way to go about it because like most people not giving a fuck like that. Most people like you as a hoe you out here you for the community you for the streets you just throwing dick around just throwing pussy around and we're not gonna talk about where you were as a person or like what had you to that point. You know what I mean? Like I don't give a fuck about that your body count's just high and that bothers me. But like for me like you said turning it back up to myself I care but not to the sense where I'm gonna be like you know what I mean it's like but you know what I mean like I got questions.
SPEAKER_01Yeah it made me realize it's it's really more of a semantic thing we're rubbing up against where for me it's like the idea of asking the literal question what is your body count is just it's it's immature feeling to me but what you're describing isn't that it's having a conversation about someone's relation relational and emotional history which is not j which is a lot deeper than just being how many people have you fucked and I think we both agree that you know an in-depth conversation about your like relational history and like boundaries and why you have certain boundaries and what's happened with them in the past and what your expectations are yeah that's like standard for sure.
SPEAKER_04I feel like if you've only been in oh shit somebody just shot a gun it's heating up I hope so shit I hope I hope they heating up themselves though don't be you know we ain't got no issues over here my boy keep that shit up but um but um I feel like like let's keep it a book like if you've only been in let's say two or three real relationships and your body count is 25 maybe we got something to talk about. You know what I mean? Like maybe maybe we got some maybe there's a space in your life where you were dealing with some things and like going back to what I was saying like that's where I'm at with it.
SPEAKER_01Like my first question and I will flat out ask like how many people have you been with you know what I mean but like but do you okay so that's the where I rub up with that question is once it gets to like 20 is you really keep in track me personally maybe this is like the super hoe in me coming out once it hit 20 however many years ago that was there's no way I could keep all that in my head without having like a list and I think once you start having a list listen I had I made the list one time in my mid-20s and then I was like I can't just be having this on my phone like you know I'm gonna die and there's gonna see a list and it was like no it says uh I yeah no so that's my that's where I I rub up against it where if someone asked me that at this point in my life I'd be like your guess is as good as mine to just I feel like yeah once you get once you get towards your 30s and like your late 20s I do believe it becomes like bro we're 30 like you know what I mean like we probably been having 30s and also we did the whole episode about drugs and I've been an alcoholic like there's some numbers exactly and so it's like I going back to what you said about remembering I do believe at a certain point you do not to say you start remembering but you do start you do kind of start keeping track and like I feel like I don't know like that I say that but like because I am I got the list you got a list you got a list it's fine.
SPEAKER_04Yeah but I I remember you know what I mean like I remember and it's like in the sense where it's like I am I care, even though I was using my body with very much with no regard or whatever, like I cared about what I was doing in those moments. I still loved myself to the point where I'm I'm I know what I'm doing, you know what I mean? Like I'm not this is not some weird emotional haze where like I'm not gonna remember any of this. Like, nope, I'm going to clearly remember this moment, probably for the rest of my life because
When Attraction Fades: Sex, 'The Ick,' and Confrontation
SPEAKER_04of what you never fucked in a weird emotional haze.
SPEAKER_01That's some of the best fucking, bro.
SPEAKER_04I honestly never have. Like, whenever I have fucked somebody, like I was I was there, you know what I mean? Like, because I wanted to fuck them, and like that's kind of where I'm at with sex in general. Like, I have to be there with you, you know what I mean. Like, we can't you can't just be fine or whatever. Cause like I'd have fucked a good number of bad bitches, and my shit just didn't get up. It's like I am I'm not here.
SPEAKER_01Now, baby, we're really podcasting now, baby. But like, you know, no, I mean, I'll I'll get in the water there with you. That it happens to the best of us, yeah.
SPEAKER_04Like, even beyond, like, you know, just being sexed out or whatever, like, there have been times where like I really was I wasn't sexed out, you know what I mean? And I was on go, but then it's like I'm on go, and then you pull up and we get to talking and we get to vibing, and I'm not on go no more. You turn you made me, I'm on stop now, you know what I mean? And so there have been what do you mean? Like I have like there have been times where like people have put me off, like I guess the ick in a way, but like there have been times where like I have the person was beautiful, like objectively a bad bitch, you know what I mean, by the terminology of which we use that term or the standards in which we use that term, and like that wasn't regardless of all that, like I still wasn't there, like I wasn't locked in, you know what I mean. Like they didn't have me on that way to be so you're saying you have or haven't fucked through the icked what through the ick.
SPEAKER_01Like, have you gotten it convinced like I'm still never, never.
SPEAKER_04Even as a bisexual man, like when I was like struggling with that in my youth, like I if I got the ick from any moment, I'm out of there, you know what I mean? Like, regardless of whatever, whoever it is, you know what I mean? Like, I was like, this would have been fun until you said and did what you did. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01Like, sure, sure, sure. Yeah, no, I'm very non-confrontational in a way that's put me into uh put me in into something. Fuck me, then I was just like, oh, I'm not having a good time, but I feel like being like, hey, you're weird, I gotta go, is like harder than just going with this.
SPEAKER_04This is for listening, whoever's listening. Maybe it's the narcissist, maybe it's the former narcissist in me, but I'm like real, I hey, I'm real quick to be like this ain't it. Like, you know what I mean? Like, I'm real quick to be like, yeah, no, I'm not feeling it no more. Like, I hope that doesn't hurt your pride, but I kind of hope it does. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01No, I've I've straight up had people be like low-key mean to me and still been like, Well, you're at my house.
SPEAKER_04Same, yo. Um, back when we lived in a townhome, man, there was this one kick that came over one time, and like I got into it in downtown at one of the protests with this guy because he fucking spit in my face. So everybody swears he didn't spit on my face. And maybe it was an accident because he was he was on go and talking fast, but still, spit hit my face, and I spazzed, you know what I mean? I was like, Yeah, that's what we're not going for. I fucked him up. Not really, I didn't really do too much to him, but I hit him one really good time and he fell into this car and I think kind of cracked the window, and everybody was like, Oh my god, like oh, like that was intense, man. Like, it really wasn't. I only hit him one good time, and then he tried to rush me after that, and I pushed him to the ground and I almost footballed his motherfucking head because I was pissed off.
SPEAKER_01Has the statute of limitations passed on this?
SPEAKER_04Uh well, yeah, it wasn't no criminal charges pressed. It wasn't like you know what I mean.
SPEAKER_01Proceed. I'm just looking out.
SPEAKER_04No, it wasn't it wasn't nothing like that. But yeah, me and him had gotten into this little tussle or whatever, and I rocked him one good time, he fell back, and then after that, I guess his ego was on go and he was amped up, and he tried to bum rush me from the back. I just happened to turn around in time because I heard his feet coming, and we started like grabbing each other, you know what I mean? Because he he was going to hit me with my back turn, but when he got turned around, he went for the grab. And so we was we grabbing each other or whatever, and I finally rolled him to the ground. And when he rolled us to the ground, my instinct was like, to give him the good old field goal punt kick. But I didn't. I was like, the crowd was too big, and I was just like, man, somebody get this dude before I do it, you know what I mean? Somebody get this dude before I do it to him. And um, but a chick came over after the fact a couple days later, that after like maybe like a week or later, a week later or something. No, it was a couple days because she was mad about that. So she came over, we hooked up, and she was that was her homie, that was somebody in her friend circle, and she found out after the fact. She found out after we hooked up, and me and her, like, she was mean to me and all that stuff, you know what I mean? But she still wanted to do the dude, and she was hot. I was like, she, you know what I mean? Like, I'm not, I'm definitely not ever saying no if you want to come through again.
SPEAKER_01And um that's a real Portland uh female thing to do, be like, you're a bad person, I'm on the way.
SPEAKER_04But like, but um, she came back through and we hooked up. And um, I remember thinking that, like, like, damn, like I didn't know how to feel about it. Cause like after the fact, like, it wasn't like she ever became nice to me. You know what I mean? Like, it wasn't like there ever was like not a point of contention. Like, we hooked up, and every time we would talk after, we would be on like different sides of like the protest scene, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01Like, well, that's kind of hot.
SPEAKER_02I mean, for real, like, it's kind of hot.
SPEAKER_04It's tension. It is what it is. Um, I mean, yeah, it was definitely the tension. The tension was like, it's it's kind of funny you say that because like the her aggressive energy toward me was I I was I was new to, I wasn't used to that. You know what I mean? It was like, oh fuck that out of you, you know what I mean? Yeah, exactly. Yeah, well, oh man. Talk about the patriarchy, right?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, we've said we've said too much on this one. Uh, I fear. But uh wait, do you have anything else on on this?
SPEAKER_04Um,
Unpacking Male Fragility and the Red Pill Ideology
SPEAKER_04but yeah, I say all that to say Meg's Meg Meg is a victim here, and I don't give a fuck what nobody's talking about with Klay. And as a man, I've heard all the rhetoric on Klay's behalf, you know what I mean? Like, that isn't not to be disregarded or whatever, but like keeping it the buck fifty, the shit really don't matter. Because like we always gotta let go, we're always allowed to do more in regard in the space of relationship and get away with more, and it just be generally accepted on a more so on like on a grander social scale. But um, yeah, man, I just that's what I got on that one.
SPEAKER_01It's like I think I'm in a similar place of like I don't want to parrot the the rhetoric I've seen about Clay. That is basically some something along the lines of like she should have known yada yada yada. What do you expect from a yada yada yada? I will say, am I as a human surprised an NBA player cheated on his girlfriend? Of course not. Does that make him not a dirtbag? You know what I mean? Like it could be, you could be operating within the societal expectation of you, but that doesn't make it fine.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_01Ultimately.
SPEAKER_04I feel like too, like going back to boundaries and stuff. I feel like if you it don't matter the dynamic, it don't matter your status, it don't matter who you are. If you have a partner of any regard, any sorts, however you want to define it, and they have a certain boundary, and you overstep that boundary, you are consciously choosing to be a douchebag. Like that's just the reality of it. As somebody who has been the habitual boundary stepper, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01So that's that's how we got into this conversation ultimately. That's because that's what I was gonna say to you in regards to well, and we'll close off here. The re I didn't know that that was cheating thing. Like cheating is what cheating is the boundary, you and your partner agree are the boundaries. It could be physical, it could be whatever is less that both of you have plainly stated is your boundary.
SPEAKER_04No, exactly. I feel like um we we exist in this time now where I don't know why it is, but maybe it's because we have so much access to like people's relationships and people that like boundaries are very optional, it seems, you know what I mean? And so it's like like not even like respecting them, but having them. You know what I mean? Like it seems like people are like kind of like, yeah, like you said, like what do you expect? You know what I mean? And it's like like that's become a very common, from what I feel like in relationships, a very common stance where it's like it doesn't matter. Going back to what I was saying about past, it doesn't, if you've worked on you know where you struggle at when it comes to boundaries and you put the conscious work in, there is no what do I expect. I expect respected boundaries, you know what I mean? Like it doesn't matter what your history were, what your tendencies was, the type of person you are, the status you have, and how long you've had it. None of that is relevant. If we're partners and we have set a boundary, there is no what do you expect. I have I have set my expectations. And so it's like, I feel like that only that generally only applies though to men when it comes to like not respecting the boundaries. Because I feel like for more in most cases, women know that they have to carry themselves differently due to patriarchy. They do they know that like if they want to be respected and seen a certain way, they have to carry themselves a certain way, though they may not want to or agree with that. That's just kind of how society is set up, you know what I mean? Kind of the same, but like the racial context, where it's like you don't ever want to be one of the good ones, but you know, in certain spaces, you have to be one of the good ones to just survive. You know what I mean? Like even like even if it's just like get out of there alive, like literally, you know what I mean? I feel like women, especially black women, women deal with that a lot more than men will ever deal with that. And so I just think that like, yeah, like you said, like I don't want to parry none of that talk, those talking points. And I've seen them too, where it's like, bro, fuck his fuck all of that other shit. Like, the nigga can have a thousand rings, my nigga. It don't, I don't give a fuck. You know what I mean? Like, it don't, none of that matters.
SPEAKER_01Like, yeah, I think it's really uh a mirror of like where maybe not all of our society is, because obviously we're only referring to like one portion of this conversation, but it is a mirror of of like what male expectation or even you could say male, like that kind of man, the high value man, the red pill on either side. I'm sorry, but the red pill on either side, man, the even like you could just say just conservative, pseudo-intellectual modern man doesn't the end goal is not Meg the Stallion cooking your family dinner on Thanksgiving. The end goal is as as you you kind of we talked about before, the end goal is being within this cycle of like never being satisfied and constantly, you know. No, I don't think people even like work that out in the long run. Like, like so if this is just your plan forever, you're just you know what I mean, you're gonna be 80s still cycling through baddies.
SPEAKER_04I mean, we've seen it, you know, I've seen it.
SPEAKER_01I mean, for sure, but is that what you want? Is that what niggas really want to be doing?
SPEAKER_04I personally feel like yes, you know what I mean.
SPEAKER_01I felt that's crazy.
SPEAKER_04I feel like the male ego and like the in-grain patriarchy tells you that like as a man, you're never done. And the moment you decide to be done, you're done. You know what I mean? And like that is no man ever wants to be written off, no matter how old he is, no matter no matter how whatever is going on. You know what I mean? Like, every you're supposed to continue to strive and continue to want. And so it's like the moment you stop doing that, you turn in your masculinity card. And like a lot, I feel like for a lot of guys, that's the biggest fear is to turn in the masculinity card. You know what I mean? And that's for me personally, that's why the red pill exists. The red pill exists because it's like you you seem to be lacking your masculinity card. Let me give you some masculinity credit. You know what I mean? Let me put you on a like you can charge this card X amount of time, but you do gotta pay it back by behavior and performance. You know what I mean? You can't you can't cash card in and then not check the credit, you know what I mean, and like not stand up to the credit.
SPEAKER_01It's so interesting you say that. Oh, we're sorry, did I cut you off?
SPEAKER_04Oh, go ahead, no, go with that.
SPEAKER_01Oh, I just saw I was just watching before this, like an essay that I forget the name of the creator who did it, but uh FD Sig was in it, and he said the statistic, or not statistic, but this like you can look back through the American history, and pretty much in every single decade, there's been like a big concern that like men, real men, are disappearing. Like work masculinity and like male, whatever we think is like peak masculinity, male desirability, uh high value maleness, whatever, is uh a treadmill that you never get to the top of. There is never a you've done it, you're the most masculine. It's no you you constantly have to keep going. Yeah, you have to smash your bones now to have the best draw. You have to do whatever you can't make the stallion.
SPEAKER_04You're talking about the clavicre video with uh the FD's deal with somebody. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01I just watched that, it was good.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, um, but yeah, no, that shit like that. You know what I mean? Like looks looks maxing and shit like that, like the constantly, like I'm the gym, bro. Shit, like get like I've you have no many, you have no idea how many times that like I've seen a post of a man being vulnerable or like expressing some kind of hurt or whatever, and niggas in the comments just get in the gym, bro. Just get in the gym, bro. Just don't even worry about it. Block that shit out, bro. Just get in the gym, just get in the gym, bro. Just go like, don't even worry about it. It's like, but that man is hurting.
SPEAKER_01No amount of weightlifting that is going to take the pain away, unless he just that man needs to paint or fucking get a sketchbook and some charcoal and just go sit in the woods.
SPEAKER_04Let that man let that man vent, man. Let that man press, and it's like, nah, bro, fuck all of that, man. Go lift, go lift iron, my nigga. 25 25 reps. Get that T up, my boy. Man, man, the red pillar space is a fucking crazy space, man. And I've only I've gone down Red Pull rabbit holes, haven't gone down one in a while. I went down the the first one I ever went down was when Kevin Samus blew up because I couldn't, I already off-rip, couldn't stand him, and I I needed to know why niggas did, and I was like, What about this nigga is speaking to you niggas? That's when I found the whole high value man, you know what I mean, and like found all that shit out. And it's like, I really don't like that shit, man. And this is coming from somebody who like I've never ever in my life been hyper masculine, but like in the space of what the high value man is, I fucked numerous bad bitches, and I'm not, I'm not super, I'm not a high value man or like any like I'm like, bro, what are y'all?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I was gonna say those a lot of low value men are spreading their seed far and wide, respectfully, with respect to that uh whole movement.
SPEAKER_04Be a person, bro. Like, you don't have to be, and I mean not saying be a bum nigga, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01Don't be a for sure. Like, um, one of the things I get at in the video is that like there is truth to the idea of like the way you look in the world and like having money and things like that are like pretty privilege exists, having money giving you more options in life exists. Like, you know what I mean? Having perceived status value to other people in society does exist, but do you want to go about pursuing that through vapid and ultimately like unuseful, like not good methods that are just gonna make you just buff and empty, or do you want to kind of see how you can perhaps you know feel better about yourself and maybe get stronger, fitter, smarter, and just like make your life better in some way that isn't purely for the sake of having more quote unquote money or success, but is for having a happier life.
SPEAKER_04We're talking to niggas and we're talking about niggas who feel like I can't be empty if I'm full of muscles and teeth. You know what I mean? Like, like what is what are you talking about, nigga? I got you see my arms, nigga, empty, nigga.
SPEAKER_02These motherfucking arms are empty, I'm fucking juiced, bro.
SPEAKER_04Exactly, exactly. Like, I'm full of motherfucking testosterone, money, and muscles, nigga, empty wear. You know what I mean? And so it's like, but to what you're saying, like, yeah, like a lot of I a lot of dudes, like, yes, they'll put that's what they protect themselves with. And it's like, if I look like this on the outside, hopefully you'll stop there and you won't ask about what I look like on the inside, which is what I feel like the true sentiment is. It's like, I know I don't really have much on the inside. I don't really have a capacity for like this grandeur thought of like what's going on in the world or whatever, whatever. So to counterbalance that with I know that insecurity that I have with myself, outwardly, I'm going to be this. That way I never have to address the insecurity. You know what I mean? Because nobody's gonna know it exists if all they see is my Ferrari and they see my muscles and they see my Hugo ball suit, and all I smell like Dior Dior everywhere I go. You know what I mean? So it's like, why would you, why, why do you ask me about how I feel? And you bitch, you see how I look.
SPEAKER_01That's the only question.
SPEAKER_04You know what I mean? Like that's the that's the logic. And it's like, you how I feel, bitch. I feel like a million bucks, because I got a million bucks. Like, yeah. And so it's like, but yeah, no, I think that um, I think that um I don't know how detrimental, because I feel like going back to what I was saying earlier, I feel like in the in the black community, patriarchy exists differently. Like I tell people all the time, like if you're not black as a black man, I cannot exit exert the patriarchy upon you. Like I don't have the power to, like, I only have the power to you if you're not what? If you're not black, or if if I'm if you're not a black or brown person, I don't have the power as a black man to exert the patriarchy over you, you know what I mean? Because like if for a white woman, I I she if we go anywhere, she's first, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01She's privileged mogging you, yeah.
SPEAKER_04You know what I mean? So it's like, and I this is gone from being important and being on dates with many, many white women. Like, like I they don't people don't come to me first and be like, hey, how you doing? Is you table for two? Like it's never that, you know what I mean? Like it's always they always approach her first, and that's due to the stereotype of black men just tend to like burleste, you know what I mean? We don't we tend to not have or whatever, and so whiteness whiteness supersedes everything else, yeah, especially in America, and so it's like I don't get to exert the patriarchy over anybody who's not any white person, any white woman in general, but um, and be with that being said, I feel like that that amplifies it within our community because we hear the story all the time. I don't know how relevant it is now, but we used to hear the stories uh of men, black men in the 50s and 40s coming home and beating their family because they get treated like they do at work, you know what I mean? It's like they come home and exert their masculinity and frustration with the patriarchy on the people that they have the power to put that on, you know what I mean? Like they'll never do that, they'll never slap uh Sarah at work for talking crazy to her, they'll come home and slap their wife because Sarah talked crazy to them, you know what I mean? They don't we don't we don't have the space, and like that that's not fucking okay. It's like a symptom of the patriarchy and how it like bleeds into our communities and how it bleeds into our structure and ours in our culture. But all that being said, it starts with the patriarchy and it ends with the patriarchy, right? And so it's like, how do we really like I don't know in the black community? That's why the red pill is so strong. Man, I don't really know as a black man what we do to get past that. Everybody keep like, hold your friends accountable. I only know so many niggas, I only know so many niggas. I can hold all these niggas accountable, but I don't know the 20 niggas that's over there in the other side of town beating bitches. Like, I don't, I you know what I mean? Like, I don't know.
Confronting Patriarchy, Fear, and the Burden of Male Actions
SPEAKER_01So I think there is, and we we should wrap up here pretty soon. Um, you know, something I I spoke about I don't know if it was on the exact previous episode, but one of the last ones we did was like, you know, how much I feel like black discourse online, all discourse online, but in particular black discourse online is being astroturfed by bad actors on any whatever side. I do think you know what I said about red pill niggas having more social capital than white pill niggas, I believe that's true, but I still do believe I still I I don't believe those red pill niggas would say the shit they say online to women in their faces. Does that make sense?
SPEAKER_04Not at all. They would never.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so I I still think it's not it's still I don't know if a minority is the right word, but I still don't think at least that type of language and thinking is like mainstream acceptable.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. I would the the thing is though, the guys that would say that to women and like off the internet are dangerous, you know what I mean? For sure, for sure, for sure. And it's like like that that's not the mainstream, like we're not dangerous. Like, well uh for black women, black men can be pretty, pretty dangerous.
SPEAKER_01I mean, meant like me, let's just you know, absolve black men by just saying men as a group, you know. In reference to the famous man versus bear debate of last year.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, now that that that conversation was crazy.
SPEAKER_01I wish we had. A podcast so bad when that was happening. It's we can't relitigate it now, but that was the best time to have a podcast.
SPEAKER_04All the dudes in the like like dudes were tight. Dudes were YouTube that would just eat you and just destroy you and maul you. And it's like you kind of would do the same thing.
SPEAKER_01Dudes proved the point immediately with their reactions. With the reactions, it was like exactly, exactly.
SPEAKER_04Like, man, that that whole debacle was hilarious. And like it's stuff like that, bro, where men, we just get down bad. Like, we we are we hurt ourselves the most, like, regardless.
SPEAKER_02We can't, men can't take a joke.
SPEAKER_01As much as especially like white America, the right wants to say like no one else can take a joke, those niggas cannot. Men cannot take a joke. If you're like men are terrible, they're like, oh, if I said women are terrible, you know what I mean? It's like, bro, like, come on, you guys have the power, bro.
SPEAKER_04I feel like though, the men, like to the to like you saying that they have the power, the men that have that response don't have the power. Yeah, don't have the power and don't feel like they have the power. And it's like, I've never like, I didn't understand that how fragile the male ego was until like I woke up from the stroke and like realized like how shattered my ego was from what happened to me. You know what I mean? Like feeling like, damn, like I am a shell of myself because this happened to me and it stalled me out. And it's like, no, nigga, you just had a setback. Like you are still, you know what I mean? You're still everything that you are, and like you are not a setback or a bad experience or a bad whatever does not take that away from you. And it's like that has to be something, like you have to have that power of yourself within yourself. And I feel like a lot of dudes who fall into the red pill rabbit holes and like you said, can't take a joke and all that shit, don't have that within themselves, you know what I mean? And so I feel like they they look, the internet will supply you whatever you're looking for when you're looking for it, right? And so it's like if I'm looking for somebody to support my I hate women narrative, I can find it. You know what I mean? Like I can find uh and numerous podcast platforms and whatever echoing that sentiment, making me feel more galvanizing that sentiment. But it's like that doesn't really, that don't make you right. You know what I mean? Like all like I feel like people like men don't understand that you can be wrong collectively.
SPEAKER_01You know what I mean? It's like you and hurt feelings don't mean the other person's wrong. Exactly. Just because your feelings are hurt doesn't mean it's not true, or that like you which again is a thing y'all you think you would that that side would get, but um not at all, man.
SPEAKER_04Not at all. But it's like I don't know, man. What do they say? You point a finger and it's three pointing back at you, like that shit is at least as as like childish as that fucking uh rudimentary as that reference is, like that shit is true, especially when it comes to red pill niggas, especially when it comes to angry men. It's like, but you angry because they made a joke about a bear. And like, if you if you with a woman and she loves you, no nigga, she would rather be in the woods with a bear, goofy ass nigga.
SPEAKER_02Like, let them yeah, it's all all the jokes, it's not like women aren't leaving men, like dating isn't over. There's still you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01It's not like women's at that moment, women's choices or actions changed in any discernible way. It's like you just were upset hearing that they sometime, yeah. It's it's I mean, what I deal with it is like and again, we have to go out on this, but uh a thing that I struggle with a lot is like getting mad sometimes because like I walk my dog late at night a lot, and like I it sometimes pisses me off, even because this happened during the day sometimes, where someone will just like see me coming and cross the street, and a woman in particular, and there will be a part of me that's just like what the fuck, you know, like I'm I'm just here walking my dog, like you know, all this like part of me that wants to take offense to it, and I will at the same time be able to hold like the very understandable fear that women have that anything could happen to them late at night, especially like being in an area I'm in. But I still see it, you know, like I see where that comes from, and it's just this idea of like feeling like you're being punished for something you didn't do, and you're not being punished. So there's something you didn't do occurred, but you're not being punished. It's actually not about you at all. This is just someone else moving how they want to move to be comfortable, and you can be upset about it, or you could look at that and then use that moment to reflect on the type of world you've created or you're helping to create.
SPEAKER_04I feel like I consciously, whenever I come across situations like that, I consciously tell myself, like you're just like you said, it's not about me at all. But if it was about me, I'm just bearing the burden that men have created.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Meaning, so it's like I'm not, it's like you said, it's not about me at all. That person's had an experience, but they feel more comfortable crossing the street, which it ain't that who gives a fuck, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01Like I was if I was if I really wasn't gonna talk to them or bother them, I shouldn't care. You know what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_04And so it's like, I feel like in that space, though, um I don't know, like men are like fragile, bro. Like for sure. It's like it's like, yeah, I guess we can end there. Men are fragile, and that's what we have to say about clay and the Meg The Stallion conversation.
SPEAKER_01Like patriarchy is real, we validate it. Sorry, keep going.
SPEAKER_04Like, if you've been up on that conversation and you you're hot about some shit that a nigga said about Clay, understand that men are fragile and this is their one time to be like, get off our back. You know what I mean? Their one time in the recent years, you know what I mean. Like, we haven't had men haven't had one of these, like this hasn't been a conversation for a minute, at least not one that I feel like has been so socially grasping, you know what I mean? Where it's like, like, men always feel that way, like, get off our back. No, no, no, no. It's like, nigga, ain't nobody on your back. One, and two, if somebody was, it's the other niggas around you. Like, you know what I mean? Like, you're talking to the wrong people. So, like, handle that shit at home first, bro. Don't don't come out here yelling at us, like, we ain't nobody did nothing to you. And going back to like, I'm not a hyper masculine, do you? So it's like, I've always felt othered when it comes to like that type of man or whatever, like that type of male ideology, where it's like, I've never really cosigned to that. Like, I don't want to be, like, do I want a shit ton of money? Of course. But I don't want to be this vapid machismo ass nigga. Like, I I literally can't, you know what I mean? Like, I don't have the capacity to be that. And so it's like, if if somebody feels that way about how men have treated them in the past, and they're kind of like, yeah, I hear what you're saying, nigga, but like I you have yet to show it. Like, I need it to be, I need it to be shown for me to like take it into consideration or even into account. I accept that, you know what I mean? Where it's like, I I would be remiss to like see the way niggas around me move and have my own qualms about it, and then be upset that somebody else has those same qualms about men and me being a man, therefore that qualm kind of coming toward me. Because it's like, as a man, I fucking feel you, bro. Men suck. I say it all the time, men suck objectively. Like as a collective, we suck. Hand up.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04But um, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, thank you for listening.
SPEAKER_04Uh, I feel like too many bitches in there for anybody that was listening. If it offended you, I don't call all women bitches, but when I'm talking off the cuff and I'm just talking generally, bitches is my go-to. So, like, the same way niggas is my go-to, I apologize that offended you. You're like, oh, why is she gonna be a bitch? Because she not, but that's just because of what I said. Like, so like I'm I'm sorry. Why is she gonna be a bitch?
SPEAKER_01Uh that's that's how people are at home. They're like, they listen to this whole thing, and then once you started saying that, they're like, Oh, this is distasteful. No. Um I feel like at this point the following Damn. He he just disconnected. We're gonna have no oh, there we go.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I feel like at this point, the the following or fan base, they know what to expect. You know what I mean? They they for sure, for sure.
SPEAKER_01If they made it this far, I I don't think they were gonna be deterred by much in the in the department of language.
SPEAKER_00Um, thank you. I'm a big I want to pick, I want to pick, I'm the bitch, I like a switch, look at the wrist, try to have kids, try to be quick. She wanna pick, come with your butt, she wanna kiss, I'm gonna lie, I'm a pack, yeah. I'm with your back, yeah, it's crying, fucking below, I wish you picked, I wish you whack, I crying on the highway, broches on the driveway, burlin' like the brown job. Why bitches like my like me because I'm waify, white chat on a glass track, black and silver spiky, whiskey in my chai tea. As she needs to tire me, I buy her some her meat, baby. It's your birthday. Won't you have some broad light? Come inside on my face, even if it's a big cramp for lap. Ain't like we can hip. Yes, cram, fucking relax. Yes, can like wake you white, yes, cram, fucking relax. I want your bag, cushion the cray. Yes, cram, fucking relax. And watch your backs, and my shit white. Yes, cram, fucking relax. Yes, cram, for lack. Yay can like working wet, yes, cram, foreign. I want your bag, cushion the crack, yes, cram, for your backs, and my shit wake.
SPEAKER_01We have a crime ruler, creme ruling.