Ep. 19: Bold or Soft — Why Women Don't Have to Choose

For years women have been told they must choose who they are.

Be bold and driven…
 or be soft and surrendered.

In this episode, Crystal and Laken explore the tension many women feel between ambition and softness, unpacking the all-or-nothing patterns that keep us swinging between girlboss grind culture and rest-and-receive messaging.

Through nervous system awareness, identity work, and honest conversation, they show how sustainable growth actually lives in the middle — where drive and softness can coexist.

Because the truth is, you don’t have to choose.

Follow along, tune in, and let’s get into your next mindset shift!

It means the world to us if you would rate, like, save, share, and most importantly hit that subscribe button! And if something you heard today hit home for you, share it with your world. There is plenty of room at our table.

She looks like she has it together.
But inside, she’s tired of being the strong one.

Peace. Play. Love. is for her.

A retreat where the armor comes off,
the nervous system softens,
and self-trust becomes the loudest voice in the room.

June 2026.
This is your pause and your pivot.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to the Low and Slow Podcast. We're your girls, Crystal and Lakin. If you press play today, trust. You made the right decision.

SPEAKER_00 0:09

And know whenever you're listening to this, it's exactly the right time. We invite you to pull up a seat to the conversation, get curious about your current perspective, and lean in for the opportunity to see yourself in another woman's story.

SPEAKER_01 0:24

We created that girl magic because we've been where you are.

SPEAKER_00 0:28

Here, the talk is real and the breath is steady. Let's get into your next mindset shift. Hey guys, welcome back to the Low and Slow podcast. As usual, it's Lakin and Crystal, and today I want about I want to talk about something that has been uh it's been coming up with clients, but also like it's it comes up for me quite a bit personally too. And it's this idea of like women being told that it's one extreme or the other. So the idea that you either have to drive and like go hard and persist and push past anything that's uh a disrupt to that on your way to success, or just surrender and rest and be at ease and let things come to you and like be in receivership. And I don't think it's that simple, and we you know, we we have a hard time with cognitive bias, but are you you know, you have to choose like are you bold or are you soft? Are you a girl boss or are you a manifester? Are you like grinding or are you in your feminine flow? And I just want to address that because it's something that I uh I rub up against a lot personally.

SPEAKER_01 1:55

Yeah, I'm sure that lives like rent-free in a lot of women's minds or like different versions of themselves where they've seen I've I've been in this space before and now I'm here, and like how do I marry the two to where like what is actually me now and what gives me the results that I'm looking for? And I think that topic specifically is um something women don't talk about enough because there's a lot of like that's the evolution of what being a woman is and it's gonna change in every season. I mean, think about when you be even like moms that become a mom, like yeah, you're not um you're not consistently in the same place that you've always been. So yeah, we're diving into that today. Um, I think one of the main things with this topic is like giving yourself permission to figure out what what both looks like. I think there's like that spectrum that we've talked about and where like the pendulum swings far back and like finding the balance in the middle is what feels challenging because it's like, is that really me? I know that like it pushes up against a lot of people's identity.

SPEAKER_00 3:00

Mm-hmm. Yeah, it didn't come from nowhere. Like I get where this recent, more recent messaging around leaning into softness comes from. Because for a very long time, due to women being introduced in the workforce and then being told and conditioned, like you can do it all, you can do anything you want to do, you can do it, you can be anything you want to be. And that comes with expectations because you're still supposed to fulfill this role of being able to nurture and provide and be there for other humans in your life, but also because you want success, you should be able to do that. And and and a lot of women felt like I either have to do it all or I have to choose, and it can only be one or the other. So it doesn't come from nowhere. There is a reason why, and we see this with a lot of things where the pendulum will go all the way over to one direction and then have to come all the way back to overcorrect, but it is rooted in a real place. So I do want to name that. It's not, you know, a bunch of women didn't decide we're we're done with working, and so we're just gonna sit around and receive, and that's it, we're done.

SPEAKER_01 4:05

Yeah, yeah. And yeah, it didn't, yeah, it didn't come from anywhere, and I think it's like when that comes, right? And it does maybe press up against your identity. It's like, what is the main thing we hear from women, what they talk about? There's like a lot of shame around it. Um, guys, Cruzy is here, he is here with a bone marrow in the back. So if you hear it, that's what that is. That's like all I can hear. Yeah. Um anyway, so yeah, it's like when can we name that, right? The shame that's around that, the shame that's when you, you know, find yourself really wanting to either pick one or the other. And can can you allow yourself to like what if I was both, right? And like you're gonna be both in different areas, right? And what if there's this thing of like, I don't have to choose? Like, I think that's all I think that's also like a societal um expectation or conditioning, like, for example, with becoming a mom, like if you know, do you have to choose whether you're bold or soft in that point in time just because you had kids, right? Or if you started a business, bold or soft just because you did X, Y, and Z. And so what if we refuse to pick and just allow ourselves to um like redefine even what both of those statements look like? And being bold or soft, there's a there's a happy medium in either of those.

SPEAKER_00 5:24

Yeah, and because we had this generation of women that were told that they had to push boundaries to overcome previous generations in order to feel validated in what they were doing and what they were putting into the world, I think that created a pattern of those women needing permission to be able to rest, like to be able to receive and not have to perform all the time so that they could feel validated in that. That it because it does, it feels very uncomfortable for those women.

SPEAKER_01 5:58

Yeah. Yeah. And I think like it the validation is what is nor I think part of what is the hardest part, because it's like if you haven't seen that around you, especially with other women, maybe being like your mom, your aunt, right? Like women generations before you, if you haven't seen that in your friends, if you haven't seen that in like your workspaces or in places where you want to be. Um it's like, well, how do I like how do I create that? But then how do I how am I also given the permission if I haven't created it yet? Right? Because a lot of times when you're creating it, it's like then that is the permission you're giving to other people, but who's giving you that permission? If you're sure, you're gonna be able to do that.

SPEAKER_00 6:39

Well, I think we seek it, like we seek it from seeing what's available to other women, but the that's like the unfortunate thing about that is from what I've seen, and maybe this is just what my algorithm is tuned to, right? It's the women that are positioning themselves from a place of take it easier, slow down, rest and call in what's meant for you, just manifest it and it will come. Um, all of these messages that are coming through. We're seeing the highlight reel a lot of times. And my opinion, those women did a lot of really hard work to be able to get to the place to say, yes, this is how I'm doing it now. And I do think it does a disservice to say you should do it, you should do this too, because we're not seeing what it took in order to get to a position to be able to just receive, to be able to just call things in, to be able to say, yeah, um, it doesn't have to be that hard. Life can look like this. Well, your life looks like that now, right? But what did it take in order for you to be able to get there? Because I don't believe that that is something that just happens out of the jump.

SPEAKER_01 7:52

Yeah, but I think that's the thing is like when women are there to show that. Like, for example, even the masculine and feminine polarities, right? When a woman goes through, you know, operating in both of those spaces, she has to have experience or where she's done it this way before, like when we talked about discipline and devotion. We've done it a certain way before where that didn't really get us the result we were looking for. And so it's like, yes, a lot of it is the um not seeing the work that's happening behind the scenes. Why? Because there's shame or sometimes um vulnerability around that and expressing that. But I think like even in like the wellness space of like, you know, do this, it's I don't think it's people saying, like, oh, this is what just worked for me, like do that. They everyone has to have your own experience to do the like have that threshold of where they're pushing, pushing, pushing, they're still not getting what they want. Um, or they're falling like again back into that other extreme where it's like, oh, this isn't actually allowing me to take action, be available in this way. And I think it's it's the it's the missing vulnerability in both of those expressions where because that's not shared, that's why it looks like, oh, well, just do this and then you'll get this outcome. But it's like, I don't know. I like when I see things like that, I don't think it's this person saying, This is the only thing that you have to do to make it come. I think it's like they're seeing I've had this experience of what wasn't working, and now I'm doing this because this has been the thing that's helped me to get this on the other side of it. Um, and that's gonna look different from everything.

SPEAKER_00 9:31

If it's gotten them to where they are now where they're able to say, Yeah, just slow down or yeah, like soften now. Say that again. Was it what? Like, is it that what they were doing when they were, you know, pushing or driving or you know, they had the discipline, was it that was it the case that that wasn't working for them if it's put them into a position where now they are able to call in that rest where they're able to soften, where they're able to slow down?

SPEAKER_01 10:00

But that's the thing. I think that's what's not talked about enough. It's not that it has it like didn't work. It's that they pushed up against the new edge there where it's like, okay, yeah, I got all of this, and it's still like not that it's still not enough, but this is still like this is not it. Like this is still the feeling I don't want. And I think it's like in that in-between where it's like all the things that you know get you the praise, get you the um what seems like the outside success, and then you get there and it's like, oh, this still doesn't feel good. That's the missing piece that nobody's talking about. And then it's like you try it a different way, and it's like, oh, now this must be the thing. And I think that's I think that's why it's perceived that way of like um operating in both extremes, and it's like you have to everyone's gonna hit a different edge that says, Well, when I hit here, I know that this is where something had to change, whether that be like, you know, the cost of their health or the cost of a relationship or a cost of whatever it is, and that's usually the piece that's not shared. But I I think when people are sharing things from that place of like this is what works for them, it's because they've had so many examples of like, well, this is what I said used to work for me, and that also wasn't working, and that's not what they're vulnerable enough to share. It's like the what's missing is the vulnerability.

SPEAKER_00 11:18

Yeah, and I yeah. I think the messaging that it has to be one or the other. Right, and at the end of the day, the whole point is you don't necessarily have to pick a side. It's like, can you find your own pace in that? Can you not have to lean all the way into one or the other? Like, are you able to, I guess, be vulnerable and and that be rooted, that be the softness that's keeping you in in that momentum of that drive, or when you're um in your softness, like what areas of discipline are you still incorporating to create a container for yourself to be able to flow within?

SPEAKER_01 12:02

I think it's also like what happens when you're operating in that space and everything that's gotten you to where you've gotten before, if you were to let all of those things go, who would you be? Right? That's where the vulnerability is. It's like if you were to let all those pieces go that essentially built the identity, right? Because it's like, think about like a man's expectations or things. It's like I'm always this way, right? And I do it this way. But there's gonna be different points in times where that has to adjust. And if I was to let all of that go, and this is where sometimes like the both sides gets confusing, it's like if you've been on both sides, how can you operate in a sense where you let it all go and then you can pick which pieces you want? And that's like what you're saying of like what pieces of discipline did work, right? That do create a foundation and a container for me, and then have this message be like an internal message from what the woman needs, aka your intuition of like, all right, I'm not just going to override my body and myself just because this is what I know gets me the results, right? I'm gonna, I'm gonna be more in tune with that so that I'm not um I'm not making these decisions based off habit or based off like uh a pressure and I'm I'm flowing more with the intuition to say, okay, like like that's where everyone wants to think it looks effortless, but it's because like she has this internal, like that internal compass has been built because of where both of those spaces have gotten her. So it's like I'm I'm picking from each side what works and leaving what doesn't. Um and it's I think it's just overall having the conversation that that's gonna look different in each season. Like if you're started the business, right? Or if you just had a if you just had um a baby, like you're a new mom, right? Or um, you know, you just got your bot, like you just got your body back to how it you you know was before, and then now it's like up, well maybe I'm gonna have another kid, right? It's like every it looks all different, but I think it's like the expectation that's there of like that it always has to look the same just because that's a familiar place you've been before. It's like you that intuition has to come online somewhere from pushing a new edge.

SPEAKER_00 14:09

That's where I think that cycle comes in, right? So every time there's a new season or there's something, a new thing that somebody wants to add to their plate, or if they get inspired to do something new, it's like, okay, I'll go, I'll go all in to get the thing, right? And then it works for a period of time, but it's not necessarily sustainable because they're not incorporating any of the other pieces of the rest and the softness and like being able to be intuitive and listen to themselves. And then they'll get results, but at some point they'll crash because the nervous system will like tap out. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:42

Yeah. Or like even even before the crash, like what normally happens, like it's like I'll return to what was comfortable before so that I can avoid crashing out. It's like I it because that's safety, right? Um is there is there something like maybe a specific, you know, I think I was thinking about this. Um a lot of times, like where we're talking about we don't have that specifically around us, or if this is something you know you're internally navigating within yourself if you're listening to this. I think like how we've seen this be handled of what um what it means to be a woman, like from like movies or from like in music or like in upbringing and um in your family dynamic, right? Like I think is there an example that you've seen that maybe that comes up with clients or personally with yourself that um that has you see where like where this not like where the struggle is, but like where um at what point in time is like a a common time that you see women struggling with this um being on one extreme or the other.

SPEAKER_00 15:55

I mean with health and wellness always, right? That's where the all or nothing mentality comes in, where they decide on a new goal or they decide that this is this is the season where I'm gonna really dedicate energy towards the the body composition that I want or the fitness goal or the performance thing that I want to do, whatever it is. And they get all amped up because there's a lot of marketing and a lot of messaging and a lot of things that say, you know, do XYZ. And uh if you meet these metrics, right, like KPIs at an office, then you're gonna get the result that you want. And they'll do it based on the template that someone else has set, even though their experience and their uh their life up until that point is not what's being showcased when they put their container out there, like, oh yeah, what works for me is you know, training five times a week and walking 10,000 steps and drinking this much water and eating this much protein. And so they say, Oh, well, that's what I have to do in order to have what I want. And so they try to do all of that, but they don't take into account their current capacity and their current needs about what intuitively their, you know, amount of rest or what the other demands that are in their life. And then they're able to withhold that or sustain that for a period of time until they can't, and then they decide, oh, that doesn't work for me. So I'll go back to either a familiar pattern or what's what I see is happening now is um, oh, well, I push too hard and that's not what I'm supposed to be doing. Right. What I'm supposed to be doing is listening more to my body, but in a way that to me, like creates a lot of excuses too. It doesn't have to be all or nothing, it doesn't have to be, well, I'm just gonna listen to my body, and that means, you know, I don't actually feel like doing this today, and then tomorrow, I don't actually feel like doing it today either. I, you know, I'm just going through something right now. I get that, but I also I'm a firm believer that every that also breeds mediocrity and everything worth having almost always comes from a little bit of resistance. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 18:05

Is there any other place like I'm I'm thinking back like when this has come up with clients and I just keep going back to like a season of someone becoming a mom or maybe having another child, or um like I know it's talked about a lot with health and wellness and like you know, making these changes in your life, but outside of that, where it's like yes, a little some resistance, there's a difference of the resistance of not wanting to do something because you just don't want to do it. And like it's like I think it's this idea of when we talk about both of these extremes, is like not everything has to be hard, not everything has to be like um, for example, like 75 hard, right? Where you're pushing yourself to the extreme. Um, but it's because like we're talking about like your cherry picking of like, well, what's all worked for this? And I think that's where a lot of times, and sometimes pushing yourself to do the thing even though you don't want to do it, it's then it's it cuts off the line to your intuition. It cuts off the line of like what um like what is it in this moment you need right now and becoming really familiar with that because you're pushing past just to get something done. So I think like on both sides, um, yes, it's like you have to, it's not an equal balance of both, but you have to like you have to be willing to see where it's like what works for someone else isn't gonna necessarily work for you. And um I think when it's like you can operate more in that space of like, you know, asking yourself, like, am I doing this to avoid the uncomfortable, right? Or am I doing this because um like I genuinely, like, for example, like with what you're saying with um like working out per se or whatever, like am I am I doing this no, because I'm just not in the space to do this right now and I can revisit that another time. Like, I think a lot of times this is like that balance is like it because it mimics another time where you've been there before, where you have disregarded or you have avoided. And I just think like there's not enough permission that comes when you're trying to figure that out that allows you to just operate in what really works for you because you're just comparing it to what worked for someone else.

SPEAKER_00 20:23

I think the same thing happens for moms, like they'll see, you know, breastfeeding regimens or sleep schedules or behavior work with babies, like all of these things that they look at and they say, Oh, well, I want the outcome that that person is portraying, right? So I'm gonna do this thing, even if it doesn't necessarily fit with my lifestyle, and I'm gonna essentially try to mimic this as identical as possible until I hit a brick wall where then I'm like, Well, I failed and now I'm gonna shame myself for it. And then I'm gonna go back to whatever it's like, it's always like it's a big slide to, well, whatever I possibly can do, as opposed to can I, can I, if that's the outcome that I truly want, could I just challenge myself a little bit outside of what was, you know, available to me at the time.

SPEAKER_01 21:17

Right. But even in that perfect example, like you said, right? It's like this is where it's like before, like because we see the result of what happens here, it's like comparing of like, oh, I must do that. And then where the shame and all that come and the judgment of like, well, I didn't do it like this, right? So I failed, I must be wrong. But it's like that mom cut herself off, and just in the example, cut herself off from being available to what actually could work for her and her baby, because it's like I'm I'm taking on and I get it, it's like we learn from what is happening around us that to seek the result that we're looking for. But I think that's where like we fall into these extremes because it's like we're not actually going back, well, what could work for me here? Let's just try it out. And if I need help and I'm not getting the result I want, then I seek out these other things. Um, but I think it's it's in always seeking out the result from somewhere else that it's like you cut yourself off from that, being able to, you know, figure out what that can look like just for you.

SPEAKER_00 22:19

But if that was the case and you were only ever listening to your intuition it's like if we were never exposed to anything outside of ourselves, would we would we push for anything better?

SPEAKER_01 22:31

No, no, that's what I'm saying. It's not one or the other, it's not that we're only seeking out out here and that we're only doing the intuition. I think it like you can go back to what is like what works best for you because you can see that it's being done different outside of you. And I think that's where these extremes fall is because people want to operate in just one or the other. But it's like as you're can can we start to build that um even if something is happening outside of you that it's different than how you would do things, it's like, can we build that actually what in your body and like what you need that that comes first? And I think that's where why women fall into these extremes, is because there's not there's not that solid foundation there within themselves, and then they only learn through by doing the other things, which is like again pushing that new edge. Um, but then it's like it's also the other side of that coin is like okay, falling into the when you're operating in one of those extremes, it's like that it only has to be this way. Like, if I don't do it like this, then it's wrong, like you were saying. Um just like that all or nothing.

SPEAKER_00 23:40

Yeah, and then it it creates this familiar pattern where it's like you'll have this big peak in the this valley where you're like dip and fall and dip and pop fall, and then you're you're always like pushing past your current tolerance, so you're always gonna go back to the set point of like what is most comfortable for you, which is usually what's most comfortable for you is not gonna get you where you want to be.

SPEAKER_01 24:01

Yeah. I think you know, the comfort zone too, it's like the comfort zone is you have to like you, yeah, you have to be willing to put yourself in other things to even test what that comfort zone really actually looked like. And I think it's all the things that get created in in the in-between when you're doing things that you've never done before, when you're um like when you're being able to operate in spaces of like, oh, this is where I uh abandoned myself, or this is where I, you know, pushed discipline away, or this is when I was like so in my feminine that that didn't um and that still didn't get me the result that I'm wanting of like all of these things start to press up against your identity and where we talk about like creating the stories, right? It's not that you're lazy, it's not that you're not doing enough, it's not that you're um that you're bad at new, like you know, creating new habits or making change, or that you're not serious. I think it's there's just so much judgment in when you're trying to figure this out and why, because there's so much externally, which is why I'm like, oh, okay, like can you even go back to what it is internally that you're needing or um maybe and not even needing, like maybe not even paying attention to because it's so much noise outside of you.

SPEAKER_00 25:16

Yeah, well, and then all of the all of the big flashy things are the ones that are affirmed and get celebrated. So if I only if I only recognize that, and I'm gonna do it too, because I'm gonna mirror what's outside of me more than likely when I'm interacting with other people. But if I'm only celebrating or only willing to recognize, or only willing to affirm the big things, not any of the in-between stuff, then that's where it's gonna feel like failure anytime that I'm in that in-between. But the in-between is where all the progress is made, and that's where you're able to learn the most about yourself because you're able to do the things that feel small for a longer period of time and iterate and learn how your body responds to them and be able to, like you said, create space to listen. But without being okay with being in the in-between for a period of time, you won't be able to get that really valuable data. And the misconception that I see most often is that the in between, and when I say the in between, I'm talking about essentially like our comfort zone and then a boundary that's in place where we've tested before where it's gone too far, and anything in between that, in between the comfort zone and the boundary, and pushing against that boundary to see are we available for a new boundary every once in a while? Not constantly, but testing it every once in a while to see if we're ready to expand, to see if we're ready to shed, to see if we're ready to grow. But everybody wants to mark only what happens outside of that boundary line, the big stuff, as the stuff that's worth it or the stuff that's um like showcase worthy, the stuff that I'm willing to show to the world and proclaim, and all of the stuff in between, they see that as the mediocrity, but the mediocrity is actually only what's in the comfort zone that's keeping you exactly where you are right now. Anything in the in-between is where the magic happens. And then that's where we can iterate and push a little bit when we're ready and then iterate and try to push again. And that's where that progress is made over time, not like leaping outside of it and then being like, Look at me, I'm here, but then I'm gonna crash back down to here.

SPEAKER_01 27:16

Yeah, yeah. And I think that to your point, it's the like meaning. I remember there was a point in time where I vividly remember making this post about myself. And it's like I was starting to really learn to love myself in the in between because when I was pushing those new, like when when I was pushing those new edges, that's like the missing piece that wasn't happening. And I would keep pushing and then like going back down, right? And coming, um, coming back down of like, oh, well, I'm not, I'm not really, I didn't get to where I wanted to be, and now I feel like I'm further like a setback. But it was because like in the in-between there, like I couldn't, and that's what I why I bring up intuition there of like in the in-between is when you're really going to learn how to like love yourself doing it messy. Love yourself, and it's so cliche of like love yourself. No, like you're gonna start to meet different parts of yourself that come with doing the work, kind of like you don't know, um, like when someone says about being in relationship, right? It's like the the work you can do on yourself, great, but then you get in relationship and that's a whole different ballgame. And so it's like in the in-between when you are pushing up against the boundary that once kept you safe, or or really like when you start to see that, like, oh, I handled that differently last than last time, right? It's like that's a piece of can you go back to as you're learning to meet yourself where you've been before, but respond in a different way, where it's like then that's when you can expand. And it doesn't always feel good, right? It doesn't always feel good because what? It's vulnerable, it's raw, it's honest, it's also saying I have another mark of time that I have past evidence evidence of, and I'm still choosing to like play in this arena, like put myself back in the place that doesn't feel so good, even if I didn't have even if I had an experience of that before. Yeah, it feels risky. Mm-hmm. Right, and we've talked about that, like even like the help, but we talked about the help, um, the why asking for help is hard, right? Because it feels risky, but it's like the only way you know is like by asking for help. It's like I'm wanting to expand on this area, so I'm having to put myself back into the arena there, and I think it's in the in-between that if we're not vulnerable enough to be able to um hear or address or respond differently, then it's like that's what creates the loop. That's what creates, and then you just keep collecting evidence from that one place.

SPEAKER_00 29:51

I think my version of this is from my perspective a little bit different than what I've been told by other women. And I think it's worth recognizing both sides that I feel that my like right now with all the messaging that is out there of like what's being shown, and maybe this is just um, like I said, it could be just what I'm what I'm subject to based on um like female business entrepreneurs. Right.

SPEAKER_01 30:34

Because what you most resonate with.

SPEAKER_00 30:36

Yeah. But the the messaging that I am receiving a lot is oh, don't, don't like essentially like shaming the the work ethic, right? Like shaming like the the drive. And it has been really frustrating for me because the more that I lean into my intuition, the more that I do play with that in between. For a long time I was trying to find out, okay, like, you know, what is my superpower? What is it that that I bring to the table that is, you know, my innate gift. And simultaneously I was I was getting all of this information or all these downloads that were like, you need to, you need to take it easier, you need to slow down, you need to rest more, you need to um, you need to call in what's meant for you, you need to be able to receive. And the more self-aware that I became in trying to slow down, and that's where that, that's where the beautiful thing of that, right, is that's what that gave me, is it gave me the space to be able to do that. But I recognize like my superpower is my work ethic. It is my drive, and that is where everything that I want happens.

SPEAKER_01 31:48

Yeah. And I want to I want to pause you intentionally right here, because this is where maybe I don't know if this was coming out as clear as it was earlier, but now that we have like a specific example where it's like, this is where, like you're saying, it's like, oh, well, all of this, my work ethic, my superpower, right? It's like that's where it presses up against, well, this has been the shit that's built me and that's gotten me here, like you're saying, of like, of course. Um, and it's like when it presses up against what all of these things of like the foundation of like what you've built as your identity, right? Your character, like your all all of the things. Um, and when then the outside messaging of like, oh, okay, well, you're here, right? So then like do it this way, where it's like, then your intuition is even louder of like, no, I know I'm I'm convicted. Like, I know that this is what's gotten me here, but there's still something about that that this isn't it, right? And I think it's like when you can internally give yourself that permission, then I think you're more available to seek out like what outside is telling you. Can I try that on? Oh, okay, I'm gonna try that on, but ultimately I don't feel good when I do that. And that's the messy in-between where it's like, as I'm figuring that out, what works best for me, right? Can I can I love my like around rest? We've talked about this a lot. Like when with a to-do list is hanging over your head, right? And it feels like it doesn't feel good if I don't get things done, but it doesn't feel good if um I also push myself and then I'm exhausted, right? It's like it can I can I start to love like the peace in the in between that's really trying to figure it out, right? And that like invulnerably showing up in those spaces where like I don't have to keep choosing one or the other because then that keeps me in the extreme. And that it's gonna look different, may uh, you know, where you're on your cycle, it's gonna look different. What the hell's going on in your life at that point in time, in that moment? And I think that's just even more where then you like as women, we start to then be the thing to give ourselves permission and stop seeking it so much externally because it's like I'm I'm meeting myself in the messy in between rather than when the messy in between's happening, like seeking, okay, well, what do I do now? You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 34:04

Yeah. I think you do the idea of uh understanding yourself is gonna be the most important, in my opinion, because only from that place are you gonna be able to not self-abandon in that process because I'm still met with shame at the amount of drive that I have now externally, and like there was a time where I was like, oh, like maybe you know, maybe that there is something wrong with that, or maybe um I need to look at it differently. But when I look at it comparatively in seasons, it's like I I have adapted and I do operate at a much slower pace than I used to, and I do um listen to myself, I do, I do not override as much as I used to, right?

SPEAKER_01 34:59

It's like I do feel like I'm meeting myself in that, but because it's like if someone else is comparing to their journey, and then they're like, oh, well, that that still seems like really hard, you know, and it's like speaking on that for them, you know where I'm like, well, that's not that's not my version of hard. But but but that's the thing. Like, I think that's where things get misconstrued of like when like you said, you know your previous self of where I have slowed down enough, right? I have those, it's kind of like the mile markers when you're driving on the highway, right? It's like I have these mile markers where I have this past experience where I know I've slowed down more, right? Or I have this past version of maybe um a uh previous version of yourself you still see that, oh, like I remember when I used to be that way, but again, it's it's it's something that is just more of like an internal comparison for yourself, not necessarily about the other person. It's just like, oh, I can see when I felt of what this person's experiencing that that personally didn't feel good for me. And so then it allows you to question, like, does that feel good to them, right? And I think that's maybe where things get miss of like if it doesn't women only know um how to relate to each other by what is familiar or what is um like what resonates with both, right? Like if you both have an experience of this, but you have a completely different experience because it's your own. But I think that's where like most women can relate. And so it's I I think it's not a conscious comparing, right? Because it's like again, people's like trauma and stuff, like right, like what someone someone goes through may not be as traumatic to the another person as what your trauma was, you know what I'm saying? So I think it's like I think it's just a thing of like where, um like in the advice or what other people are giving, like I think it's just it's like uh that's how they're relating. They're thinking of a time where they felt like that so that they can relate to something you're experiencing, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 37:06

Yeah, like everybody has like a default setting, and they're gonna look at other experiences through that setting versus recognizing, okay, how does that feel in my default mode? And do I want my default mode? Um, like essentially like that that setting always is iterating and changing and adjusting based on what's going on in your life at the time, or your own personal growth and development, or you know, uh external factors that are at play. And being able to just say, okay, again, that self-awareness of being really familiar with what is available to you at the time. Okay, this is what my default looks like right now. This is what I would like it to look like. What's the route to get there as opposed to I need to be having a yesterday? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:58

Yeah. And I mean, I think this is where, you know, it's like when we talk about um projections, right? We did a whole episode on that, right? I mean, women are natural projectors. That's just we are why? Because we want to relate. We want to have the space where, oh, I have this experience, and even though it's very different than yours, I think this is woman's superpower and sometimes of their downfall, right? Because it's like you're wanting to relate why. It's a bid for connection, right? It's a bid for to create a space or container that is vulnerable, that allows um you to be seen and the other person to be seen, heard, felt, supported, all the things. But it's like, I think that's sometimes what is the breeding ground for where, because they have an experience of their own that can get projected onto the other person, not intentionally, not consciously, right? And that then when we think about it in that way, it's like, can I actually, I think it's just it's women's um beautiful opportunity to say, even though I'm experiencing something, I have an experience that's very different than yours, can I create a space where it is vulnerable, open, honest? I can hear how the other person's feeling, and I don't need to relate to it, but I can sit here to listen to understand it, and then also um like not take on well, it's like what we were saying with productions that it means anything about you, but just to to have awareness around that that's what that woman is experiencing here. And like I think this is where like when you have people wanting to relate and like give each other advice, it's like they can only give that based on their own um their own experience or perception, right? And I think that's sometimes where that gets lost of like, can we just listen to understand, even if we don't agree, even if we don't agree or even if we don't really feel that, but I think that's what creates the space that's different within women because there's a level of vulnerability and every woman is not at that same place. But I think it's like the more that you start to put yourself in those types of conversations or um places to be met in the vulnerable, where it's like then you really start to see something different about yourself as well. Yeah. Cause I think the vulnerability and like the vulnerability is what the in-between is. The vulnerability is the um allowing to have the other people see parts of yourself that you quite don't know what that looks like yet, right? Or because it's like it's new to you, it's vulnerable to you, it's vulnerable to share with the other person. Um, and I think it's like in the in the spaces of extreme that the middle or the messy or the in between, like you said, it has like it's like m the most risk because that's where it presses up all against all those I don't want to say wounds, but all the things that have um those previous boundaries that you've set, those previous m uh mile markers, right? And then it's like what normally happens. It's like, oh I gotta take this exit, like this is too much. Let me circle back around. And then it's like then you go back to where it was before. And I and I think this is what is um, I don't know, just a special part about what being a woman is, is that like when when we lean into like the vulnerability, especially with a number none that another woman, it just it allows us to um like recreate what that previous bold or that previous soft looks like. It like creates a new version every time. It's like a it's like a s a snake shedding its skin. Like, okay, I just shed that one and now I'm building a new one, but it has different flavors of what bold and soft look like. It's like a completely new skin, and then until that one doesn't work anymore, or not doesn't work anymore, but like doesn't resonate because we're constantly evolving. Like even who we are today is not who you were two months ago or you know, or two weeks ago, or our last cycle, it looks different every time.

SPEAKER_00 42:05

Yeah, I think that's where identity work is really important because it allows you to get really clear on the version of yourself that you are either want to root into currently if you're not, if you don't have the awareness, or that you're trying to activate. But I think a lot of times we put that version on a really high pedestal that's out of reach for us as opposed to being okay with just like the next, like instead of the 2.0, right? Like what's the 1.5? Like what's the in between, or even like point two five, you know? It's like you feel like you're failing if you're not the the extreme or the pedestaled version. But again, it's like the beauty is in the in-between, and can you appreciate the the iterations that it takes on the way to get there?

SPEAKER_01 42:52

Yeah, can you appreciate the the 1.7, the 1.8 before you get to the two, right? And it's like those can you appreciate all the skins that you're shedding or building, right? And not have to because that's like the all or nothing. It's like, okay, and that's that's the piece that's I truthfully I feel like missing with a lot of people. It's like, God, I'm not, I don't, I'm not meeting what this version of myself needs because I'm only comparing it to this version of myself, or I'm not meeting what this new um thing I'm wanting to step into. Why? Because I've I've never done it before. So I need to fucking figure out what that looks like.

SPEAKER_00 43:32

Or you're only looking at the floor and the ceiling. Yeah. Right? Like you're not, you don't, you don't want to look at, imagine like you have a floor and a ceiling and a ladder in between, right? Like you you don't have to just jump and like cling to the ceiling for dear life. It's like, can you work your way up the ladder? But we're so focused on, oh, I'm trying to most of the time I think we're we're operating from a place of I just don't want to hit the floor. And that's right, um a motivator that isn't sustainable, right? Where if if it's being If the root of it is fear and all I'm doing is trying to avoid falling back down to my floor as opposed to keeping my eye on what I actually am seeking and taking it one step at a time and just focusing on the next step in front of me, that's where you can succeed. But I I think for a lot of us, like that pull versus push motivation, right? It's like most women are running from the discomfort of their floor and not toward something that is sustainable for them. And that can be something that genuinely pulls you when you start to collect that evidence along the way. And that's why we talk so much about celebration rituals, right? Because it's those little things along the way that people want to discount. But until we get accustomed to celebrating it, then our nervous system isn't going to register that it's even a thing, right? It's like uh it becomes it's an expectation, a minimum expectation as opposed to something worth celebrating. And I I know I do this where it's like, well, I planned on that happening. I had that expectation already. So when it happens, it's like, yeah, unless it exceeded that that expectation, then it's not celebratory worthy.

SPEAKER_01 45:10

But that's the step, right? Like I think that's a really good analogy. And when the the visual that's going off in my mind as you're saying that is like those um those windy stairs, right? Because like think about like in a lighthouse, right? Like you look like you can look over the banister and you see all the way to the bottom, and it's like, oh my God, that's how much we have left to go and look up top. But like on those circled things, that is that small little skinny part in the towards the middle, and then it's wider on the outside. And so it's like I can, I actually can only focus on the step that's in front of me because I don't want to fall, right? Same thing. Um, but it's like each step that you take, even you get out of breath when climbing high altitudes. So it's like, fuck, I gotta, I gotta take a second. And taking a second, pausing, breathing, you know, celebrating the winds, whatever you want to call it, it's like the analogy, you can everyone's climbed stairs before, so you know what we're talking about. Like as you continue to grow, it's like, oh, I expected to make it to step 50 today. And if I got to 55, okay, exceeded it. But then like the more that you were focused on just each thing and like, oh, okay, I can celebrate as I'm going up, it makes I don't know, I feel like it makes the when you get to the top that much sweeter because then you've celebrated everything that was happening along the way. And it wasn't just like I got here and now let's go climb another stairs, you know, another another lighthouse or whatever.

SPEAKER_00 46:31

Yeah, I think that it's worth touching on celebration because I think most women don't really have a good concept of what that looks like. You know, they they think it has to be something really big or this like great gesture, maybe because of what we see in media or whatever it is, right? But it doesn't a celebration doesn't have to mean that you treat yourself to a whole spa day or that it's like it has to be pretty expensive, or you yeah, or you go out to dinner, or you know, it can be small things. Um, see, I'm gonna let you speak to this because you're much better at celebrating than I am. But what are some like small celebrations that you will do or that you talk to clients about that feels like sustainable over time or something that can be used on a regular basis or for the in-between reps?

SPEAKER_01 47:17

Yeah, I wanna, well, I I'm glad you asked that. And um I wanna pause and say, like, there was a there was a time where I didn't do that. I think I, you know, when we went through and lifted, L2 really was like celebrating the wins, like what the fuck? Like, I think like I in a way like did that with myself, like the internal, like, whoo, you did that, right? But it wasn't in the way like when we ask you, like, what's the coolest thing you've done, like as a kid, right? Or like the things that you're really proud of. Like when you put it in that language, most adults don't do that. Just like most adults don't say how exactly how they feel, like, I'm feeling this, right? So it's like when you start to then get the language for it, it's like then you start looking at it everywhere, like uh perfect uh some even just with my clients of like celebrating. I have my clients text themselves. Like if you have an iPhone, I don't know about Androids, but if you have an iPhone, like I text myself often, and a lot of times I like to share it with people around me. Like that's the easiest way of like I did this today, right? But if it's like if that feels too vulnerable, being able to just share it with yourself or like writing it down, or um, you know, I have this, I like to have this also be like a visual thing, right? Like if something happened today, it's even just writing it down that like this happened today, uh, and that was really cool. Like just putting it in one sentence, like that's where gratitude journals come in, right? Of like three things today that you um were happy about, or like people will implement this with their kids of like what was your high and your low, right? Or like what was like one thing, you know, that you did today that you're proud of, or like just starting to build the language for it, and then eventually then it is that's like you're celebrating it along the way. Because celebrating it isn't always like you said, throwing a party or going out to eat. Like it's not, I think the easiest way to start is a with yourself writing it down or doing something creative or doing something like something is simple. We send a million text messages a day, we're on our phone all the time. What if you got I like this idea of like, and I know we there's a lot of women that listen that and where are in their faith, but like kind of having the like a message that you would have with a high whatever higher source you believe in, right? Of like, hey, guess what? I did this today. And when you start to implement that with yourself, it's like, oh my God, like what is the dialogue back then when I say that? Like, hey, hey, see, guess what? I did this. I I'll give you an example. I had a childhood dream of um singing, and I've been really shy about that. And then I start taking singing lessons, and I'm like, oh my God, like you, I did a really cool thing today, and I threw it and I hit that note and I did the riff and you know, whatever. And then it's like, then that inner voice back was like, oh my God, that's so cool, or like the little me that said something back of like, you've always wanted, you know, you've been singing that song since you were, you know, little singing into your hairbrush. And it's like, I I just I have my clients just start to tell that to themselves. And normally, if they're not comfortable telling it to themselves first, I have them text me or email me, or can you, you know, a lot of times with their husband, right? And I think maybe that's where it's like when we start to share it with other people and you don't get the response that you want, I think that's where sometimes that is also vulnerable. And so that's why I say like start with yourself, like writing it down. Um or also, you know, really I'm just thinking about this, like share it with someone who I'm not gonna say can't give you feedback, but think about like your dog can't talk back to you, right? Or like a baby, right? Like, guess what? I did this today, you know, and like the more you start to get familiar with even like putting that language together, like I had a client um love her so much. I um she was like, every week my coach asks me, like, what's this uh, you know, a win and a challenge of your week? She's like, and I can't come up with one. And I'm like, you know, she feels that she can't come up with one. She had been, right? Even with what we had been working on, she had been. But then we've gotten such in a practice, and for seven days straight, she's messaging me them, right? Like we're starting to build it. And then, like, now she does it, she picks them out and she's like, wow, I'm actually like finding that there's a lot, like she was so shocked. She's like, I'm finding that almost everything I'm doing is like a win. And I'm like, Yeah, because you've started to build the language for it.

SPEAKER_00 51:51

Yeah, you've got the awareness of it.

SPEAKER_01 51:53

Yeah, and like, and your brain is avidly searching for it. So it's like, that's a long-winded way of answering your question. But yes, like starting to start to build the language for it, like one thing, right? I set an alarm on my phone, right? I have them message me, text yourself. Um, you don't need to go get a fancy gratitude journal, but even just something simple, like taking a packet of sticky notes and writing down one thing, right? You take that sticky note off, you put it up on your mirror, that's the one that's there for the day. You rip it off, you do a new one tomorrow, right? Like just putting it in front of you so that you can start to see where, oh, I I acknowledge that today, or oh, I um even if it was cool, like even let's say you don't let's say like you're the most, let's go for the person that's like the most negative, they don't want to see anything in that way, right? And it's like, I did something cool today, right? Or like, um, I got my walk-in today, right? Or I left work 30 minutes early, or whatever. Like something that is like, you have to start somewhere. And even if it's like one that you think is not that big of a deal, but it's something that you can acknowledge, like you can build off of that. But you gotta give it the right environment.

SPEAKER_00 53:06

Yeah, the other reason women struggle to celebrate is because they also struggle to identify their needs to begin with, because I usually put them on the back burner. So another thing that I go through with my clients is looking at when we're choosing a celebration ritual, getting in tune with what do you actually need to feel good? And for a lot of women, that's just time to themselves in any capacity, right? So it's like, could you take a bath uninterrupted? Could you go for a drive? Could you go for a walk? Could you go have a cup of tea by yourself? Right. It's it's literally just time to even be present with themselves, right? Have no noise. Yeah. And again, getting um, getting access to what that slowness could even look like, a version of it or a portion of it or like a snippet of it. And that can be a way to celebrate. Like it doesn't have to be, you know, anything big. It can it can be something small, it can be something not exciting, you know, but really, really valuable.

SPEAKER_01 54:09

Right. Or like, and I think like to your point, when you bring up the like give yourself that time, like I think it's it's those bigger statements of like slow down to speed up, right? It's like, okay, let's break that down for a second. Slowing down is doesn't mean not taking action, doesn't mean not doing the things that you need to do, your responsibilities, but can you slow down enough through the lens of this to celebrate something in your slowdown, right? Which then once you celebrate it, it does allow you not to speed up zero to a hundred, but yes, right, build momentum, build um evidence, like start to start to see that it's like, oh, that wasn't that bad. And I liked a little bit of that. Literally the feeling of like, it's working. Like, yeah, this is like it's it's giving me some juice. Like, I think, you know, we talk about bold and soft in the extremes, but I'm I'm just like, let's just keep it the fuck real. What most women want to feel is fucking alive. They want to feel alive, they want to feel that everything that they're doing is like feels like magic, that it feels like, you know, it's worth it, or it's um, it's not, it's not like the stifling energy. Like they want to just feel that like it's vital. Like they're they're creating, they're lively, they like they have like that's that's what feels like the the draw, right, to keep doing something. And I mean, that's where like purpose and fulfillment comes in, right? They they want to feel um alive in whatever they're doing, building the business, being the mom, like, and I think it's like when we cut ourselves off from putting ourselves in the space to even find what that aliveness looks like because we're comparing it to the last time that we felt alive, right? The last time we felt good in the genes or whatever. It's just like, how can we recreate what that looks like if we're always comparing it to a time where maybe that's what no longer makes us feel alive anymore?

SPEAKER_00 56:04

Yeah, and can you that that's a skill, right? Like I think everyone recognizes not everyone, I think most people recognize that working hard and increasing your threshold in that way is a skill, but they don't always recognize that softness is also a skill. And to access your femininity or your intuition, or you know, doing that not from a place of like, well, I'm burnt out and now I don't have another option and sinking into it, but being intentional about oh, how can I incorporate this with practice into my day-to-day? Can I do it from a place of strength? Can I do it in a way that incorporates what does feel good for me, even if that is like pushing and hard work? Okay, but then can I balance it? Can I, can I iterate and and like it's like go and then slow down, go and then slow down and find finding that pace again. It's like, can I lean into the feminine and also have a really strong work ethic, which is like the dance that that I'm currently doing of like, okay, can I can I be soft and have all the things that I want and work really hard to get them because it feels good for me.

SPEAKER_01 57:26

Yeah, I think it's this idea that I mean, think about like an automatic car and a st and driving stick. It's more of the driving stick because the automatic is keeping you there like the whole time and is switching the gears for you, but it's like you know when you can. I mean, I don't even know how to drive stick, but when you give it the gas, when you know, like it's like it's it's the you get what I'm saying, like the yes, you have to find the balance of the two in order to have the thing go. Yeah, of your of your clutch and your gas. Yeah. I'm like, I know I I I've been taught. I've seen it done. I've seen it done. I know what's happening with all the things down there, but uh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 58:08

Yeah, but that that again, like you said, it doesn't always feel good because it can be very vulnerable, but that's gonna happen in the spaces of like being witnessed and voicing your needs and setting your boundaries and being in touch with giving yourself the things that you need and celebrating the small things in between. And that does require intentional practice, it's not something that's going to just happen on its own. And when it happens from a place of collapse, when it happens from a place of I just can't do this shit anymore, so I'm gonna just do nothing, that's not really accessing it either. That's that doesn't usually feel good either.

SPEAKER_01 58:49

Yeah, right, because it it removes the choice, right? That's like uh I oh I'm here, well, this is the only way then, right? But it's like if before we get to that point, can we try something different? Um Okay, let's I want to give them, I want to leave the listeners, our listeners, with something. Um, because we've been, you know, we've been like riffing back and forth about this, but like what could this look like if you tried this for the next 30 days? Like just let's just take the next month. Like, can you start to put yourself um can you start to put a put yourself in a place of like, what does, I don't know, like take a week that you have coming up? Like what does next week look like? And how can I start to like audit what's been happening, what I like, what I don't like, so that I could start to build some momentum without like blowing my shit up, right? Without going like feeling like I'm creating something that's not sustainable. But even if it's just like for the next week, can I take a look at, all right, what didn't feel good from last week, like trying to have these check-ins with ourselves, and then what up with what I have coming up this week, can I implement this one thing, right? Can I sell it? Can I just start looking for the wins, right? Or can I when something comes up, can I just write that down for the next week? And maybe this looks like a if an intentional practice over the next 30 days for you, or maybe this looks like um kind of like having this audit with yourself. And then once you have more awareness around this, then it's like, oh, okay, well, now this is what you call like what do you call it? The lowest viable rep. The minimum viable. Yeah. It's like, can I just take something that is that I know I will do that doesn't feel like it's um too much or too extreme? And I mean, it's kind of like when you're warming up with lifting, right? It's like you you you need the warm-up rep. You're not just gonna go all the way to your working weight. Like, can I just do the one that feels like I know that I can do it? It's you're stepping out on the on the step that you know is solid before then creating all these other wobbly steps, right? Like I just need to pick the one that gives me evidence to show me I can keep going with it.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:01

Yeah. Can I pick like one, maybe one area that you're willing to push on within what's reasonable for what's going on for you right now? And then that's like the that's the push, right? And then on the other end of that, can I also create space to be able to reflect on that and see how that felt and learn like what can I learn about myself in that arena? What felt okay? Is that sustainable? Do I need to pair it back a little bit? Am I celebrating when I when I succeed, right? In these small ways. And that's the balance, that's doing both. That's the softness and the push, right? And so if when you can do this and you practice those small moments, then then you don't have to choose. It it just becomes both over time in small doses.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:50

Yeah. Yeah. So if if someone who's listening to this today is feeling like, damn, like that's me, or I'm feeling very called out, or I'm feeling like I'm operating in one of these places, right? And I don't know where to navigate this, like that's okay. Like if something, if something you heard today uh hit, it's because it landed in an opportunity for you internally that's saying, like, I would like to like can I just try this? Can can I just see uh what what meeting myself in the middle can look like? Um and if that is alive in you right now, like I encourage you to follow that, encourage you to write, write a little bit about that, see what comes up from it and not shame it right away, right? Because shaming it right away is gonna keep having it come up somewhere else.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:44

Yeah. Yeah, it's remembering that one step at a time you can choose to incorporate both. You can choose to incorporate softness while you are doing things that propel you forward, and that can look completely different from falling into it out of a place of burnout.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:08

Yeah. And as you're and as you're doing this, like as you're doing like an audit, as you're seeing like what came up for you in this episode, can you start to like think about what you want this next version of yourself to look like as you're, you know, shedding, shedding the skin that you currently have? Like, what do you want this next one to look like? How do you want it to feel? How do you want it to um, like how do you want to show up? Like, can you be even very clear on what that is, even in just a couple words? And then as you're doing these things, right? Like you're it's like you're operating from a place of like, I know where I'm wanting to get to. I'm not just throwing um wet spaghetti at a wall, like I this is the thing I'm working towards. Like these are the this is where it's like, oh, the things you're calling in, right? Like what new um what am I trying to say? Like what new like characteristics or like attributes does this next version of yourself have? And can you get really in tune with her? Like, can you know what she feels like? Do you know what um like what she looks like? Like what she like what are the things that she's doing on a random fucking Tuesday? Like, I don't know, like can you start to can you allow her to become alive in your mind or in like a writing practice or in like a dream or something that allows you to then say, okay, like I've seen it, right? And now how do I take little pieces of that and start to create that for me? Yeah. So bold and soft, not just bold or soft, or bold's not right, or soft's not right. Like it's like it can be an and thing. We don't have to be bold but soft on the inside. Like, I think it's like I don't know, I I resonate very much with this. It's like there was a part of myself that was so hard before, and then it's like, oh, you know, you've said this about me before. Like you get to know her, she's soft. It's like I don't want to be either of those, actually. Like I know that there's times where I could be, you know, like needing, I guess hard, right? But then there's like, no, it innately, yes, there's softness there. And I don't I think it's like really nice when you just don't have to choose. Like it it's bold and soft is also a part of you, it's an and thing, and you get to exercise like when that comes out. That that is something you can give yourself permission to do.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:30

Yeah. So if this resonated, please like and subscribe. Please hit us with that review. We really, really appreciate it. If you know somebody that this would resonate with, please share it with them. That would mean the world to us. Subscribe on all channels, and then we'll see you guys next time. Yeah, we'll see you in the next episodes.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:49

Drop in the request the reframe your words or what 2.0 version of you looks like. We'd love to, we'd love to meet her there. See you next time. Bye.