Ep. 25: Trying to Solve Feeling Problems with Thinking Solutions

In this episode of Low and Slow, we explore a pattern so many of us fall into without even realizing it: trying to think our way out of what we actually need to feel our way through. When emotions rise, the mind rushes in with solutions, logic, and fixing—but what happens when the real issue isn’t a thinking problem at all, but a feeling one?

This conversation introduces a new and deeply loved woman of our coaching team, Melissa Curtis. Melissa is not only an incredible addition to the work we’re doing, but also a longtime friend—and the very connection point where Laken and I originally met. Her presence brings a grounded, embodied lens to everything we talk about in this episode, especially the importance of nervous system awareness, embodiment, and creating spaces where women can actually feel safe enough to heal.

Together, we unpack how often women get caught in cycles of self-doubt, overthinking, and “fixing” themselves instead of slowing down long enough to listen to what their body is communicating. We talk about healing as a spiral rather than a straight line, the power of women’s circles and community, and why vulnerability is not a weakness—but a doorway into real transformation.

At the heart of this episode is a reminder: self-acceptance doesn’t come from solving yourself. It comes from learning how to be with yourself. And sometimes, the most powerful shift happens when we stop trying to think our way out—and start allowing ourselves to feel our way through.

Follow along, tune in, and let’s get into your next mindset shift!

It means the world to us if you would rate, like, save, share, and most importantly hit that subscribe button! And if something you heard today hit home for you, share it with your world. There is plenty of room at our table.

She looks like she has it together.
But inside, she’s tired of being the strong one.

Peace. Play. Love. is for her.

A retreat where the armor comes off,
the nervous system softens,
and self-trust becomes the loudest voice in the room.

June 2026.
This is your pause and your pivot.

Check out our Women’s Retreat we are hosting —The Peace.Play.Love Retreat 

Deets: https://offers.thatgirlmagic.co/ppl-retreat

Request A Remix! If you’re stuck or in a situation you want a new lens on, submit your dilemma anonymously below for a mindset remix from us on a future podcast episode!

Follow us on IG: @thatgirlmagic.co - @i.am.crystal.clear - @coachlaken

www.thatgirlmagic.co 

Ways to work with us: Book With Crystal - Book With Laken 

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Welcome to the Low and Slow podcast. We're your girls, Crystal and Lakin. If you press play today, trust, you made the right decision.

SPEAKER_04 0:09

And know, whenever you're listening to this, it's exactly the right time.

SPEAKER_03 0:14

We invite you to pull up a seat to the conversation. Get curious about your current perspective.

SPEAKER_04 0:20

And lean in for the opportunity to see yourself in another woman's story.

SPEAKER_03 0:24

We created Blackgirl Magic because we've been where you are.

SPEAKER_04 0:28

Here, the talk is real and the breath is steady. Let's get into your next mindset check. Welcome back to the Low and Slow podcast. As always, it's your girls, Crystal and Lincoln. And today we have a special guest. We are very excited to introduce our newest coach to the TPM team, Coach Melissa, our newest mindset practitioner. And today we're just gonna have a little girl chat. Get to get to know Melissa a little bit better for the audience that you guys can get to know her and also share some stories.

SPEAKER_03 1:02

Yeah, thank you so much, Melissa, for being here. We're so happy to have you. If you haven't already met Melissa, when you meet her, it's like I'm so glad you exist. And it's just so nice to be able to like do life with you. And you know, you impact so many women, including ourselves, and we're just excited to have you.

SPEAKER_00 1:23

That's the best intro I've ever had.

SPEAKER_04 1:28

Don't forget it. Don't forget it.

SPEAKER_00 1:31

Um yeah, I'm I'm very grateful to obviously be a part of the team, but also here today for this conversation.

SPEAKER_04 1:38

So before we get into all the good stuff, let's um tell us who you are, but like not the bio version. Give us give us the real talk version.

SPEAKER_00 1:47

Oh yeah. Um I am a teacher at heart, I am a learner at heart, I'm a nurturer at heart, I'm a mother at heart. Um, and I'm really lucky to have a lot of those things play out into my actual life. Um, you know, how I make money, how how I get to have a family. Um and so yeah, um I'm I am a mom. Um, I guess that's part of the bio version. Um, but becoming a mom has really changed changed who I am and been the biggest growth experiment of my whole life. Um I've been on a growth journey for about 10, 11 years since my daughter was born and hasn't slowed down. Um and yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:41

Buckle up, the fun times are just um yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:47

I love I love nourishing people with food. I love being outside. Uh I love reading a really good book, mostly trashy romance novels these days. You and Link and relate in that.

SPEAKER_04 3:00

I just got into romanticy, what I call fairy smut, uh, for the first time in my life, like uh, I don't know, a couple months ago. And I'm like, oh my gosh, like I have been doing it wrong. I've been reading self-development for over a decade, and this is this is fun.

SPEAKER_02 3:18

Yeah, I'm like, I see her, I'm like, dude, those are some dick ass books, but I y'all are having fun while you're doing it, so I'm excited for it.

SPEAKER_00 3:27

Yeah, I'm less about the fairy fantasy and more like rom-com, like on the beach reads with real people.

SPEAKER_04 3:36

But I also have the dragons and the war and the thing.

SPEAKER_03 3:39

Yeah, she likes the fiction. Like, give me the yeah.

SPEAKER_04 3:42

Yeah, yeah. Love it.

SPEAKER_02 3:45

The fun in it.

SPEAKER_04 3:46

Yeah. What do you feel like is uh like when did you realize for you that um mindset was more than the perception that it was, you know what I mean? Like I feel like mindset's such a buzzword, right? But what what was the moment for you that you felt like it shifted something for you, or that you knew that that was part of what you wanted to do or part of your purpose?

SPEAKER_00 4:09

Yeah, that's such a great question. Uh so I I went to school to be a PE teacher, have masters in exercise science. So I have a background in the body. I understand the body. I owned a gym for almost 15 years. And through my evolution of like training people and exercise and um just learning more about people, um I got further into hormone health and I had people and nutrition, and I had women and people come into my office at the gym and start telling me like intimate stuff that had nothing to do with anything else. And I knew that I didn't have the tools to really help them beyond what like I was already offering. And so, and I knew there was more to it. I, you know, for a very long time, my story was you know, you're healthy if you exercise and you eat well. And then, and then I didn't even know about mental health for a very long time. Uh, and it wasn't something that I necessarily was even aware that I was struggling with, that I had conditioning and stories and fit patterns and things. Like I didn't, if you had asked me that 15 years ago, I wouldn't have even been able to tell you the things that I have now experienced and been able to unravel with myself. And so um it just seems like the logical next step to learn more about mental health. Um, my sister-in-law is an art therapist, she's been in my life for over 20 years. So, like, I've had that therapist kind of you know, interjection and conversation, and she's brilliant and brings beautiful perspective. And so she was a little bit of an influence of that, but also just wanting to to be able to come to the table with a full rounded like offering for people that I understand, and you know, you know, I know trauma is a buzzword, but that picked up in my life also, like recognizing, you know, being what trauma aware even is and how that affects people. And and so yeah, doing doing the enlifted certification was really a wonderful um eye-opening experience for me. Um, and it's led me down so many other paths. You know, my my passion, my current passion right this minute is the nervous system and how all of these things, especially words, can affect your nervous system. And so that's what I'm bringing to a lot of my calls is offering these women, you know, that it's all connected. It's just all connected. So it was just it was just a logical next step for me to to continue doing that. And then I've done it for myself and it's been life-changing.

SPEAKER_03 6:56

How has um because you're an avid like student, teacher, like you know, absorber of all the things like you said, like that all ties into it's all connected. How has what transformed or like what you saw within yourself, how is that translated into the type of coach that you are today, or like uh how you show up for the woman that you work with?

SPEAKER_00 7:21

Oh, I mean, it it's everything, right? It's it's me being able to see myself in every single person that I work with in some capacity. Um, it's also having the tools to not trauma bond with them or not interject my my story onto them or take on too much of what they're speaking. I think that I've really been able to become a beautiful hollow bone in these moments where I'm able to hold a lot of a lot of yeah, like a lot of heavy stuff. I can sit with people in the muck, um, in the messy, and really um not allow it to truly affect me, but also have that person feel safe and feel like I care, but I'm not attached, right? And so um I what I love about what we do is that it can be different than some of the therapies out there where we are quote unquote allowed to offer a little bit of our story back. And so when I do see myself in someone or I see a story that resonates, I offer that perspective in that you're not alone in it. Um I also recognize that you know, for a long time I thought that I needed to be a 10 in order to help people. And I think, you know, there's a there's a beautiful opportunity for you to be a seven and to help threes. Yeah, like you don't you just need to be a step ahead of the people, the individuals that you're helping or that you're supporting or that you're teaching. And so um that's been a huge growth experience too, is like I'm constantly learning along the way. And I think, you know, we're all mirrors of each other in some capacity. And so my clients are huge mirrors and reminders of things I've gone through or things I'm currently working through again, right? Like because healing is a spiral, growth is a spiral. We come back to those opportunities over and over and we get to we get to choose differently. And that's when growth occurs, where we're we're in the same experience, but we're doing something different. We're responding differently, we're speaking differently. Um, so yeah, it's been it's been everything in my in my sessions.

SPEAKER_04 9:40

That speaks of the relatability too, right? Because yes, there comes a time where we want to, you know, look to the person on stage and hear what they are talking about from miles and miles away from where we are currently in our life's position. But there's also something really beautiful about seeing someone that feels much more resonant because they're not too far removed from what we're currently going through. And it's like, hey, I'm gonna keep walking on this journey. Like, can you want to take my hand versus like I'm over here on the island when you're ready, get a boat, you know? But I'm not gonna teach you how to how to do it. So yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:16

Yeah, I think that's a perfect, perfect analogy. And um that is how I try to lead in my sessions is like I'm two steps ahead of you and you can still reach my hand behind, like come come with me. I want to be here next to you. Um, I see things a little bit different, you know, like the the best thing a client can say to me in a call is wow, I've never thought of it that way.

unknown 10:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:41

Like, oh my god, you know, like if I can just like just nudge you a little bit in a different direction, um, how cool is that that I get to do that?

SPEAKER_04 10:51

Yeah, can you see can you see the opposite side of the same coin, right? It's like there can be both. So speaking of that, and we specifically work only with women, and I know uh historically you have also worked with predominantly women before you came on with TGM. In your history of the work that we do, what patterns do you find that you tend to see over and over again? Like, where do you feel like women are the most stuck?

SPEAKER_00 11:22

Oh, I had this conversation the other day with someone. I think it's so incredible that we can line up 20 women with 20 different stories and 20 different experiences, and they all funnel down to I'm not good enough. I mean, I think that that is the biggest one I see, and that's men and women. I mean, I've worked with men, I've worked with couples. This, this just I'm not good enough. And it's so interesting that it can come from a traumatic childhood, it can come from a great childhood, it can come from mom being there or not being there, it can come, it doesn't matter. Somewhere along the way, it's ingrained in humans that they're not good enough. And they and I think that there's like some sort of purposeful reason that we're meant to figure that out for ourselves at some point. Um and I I'm just touching that. Like, I'm that's been my journey for a long time is just this showing up as authentically and being that permission slip and and just being able to honor me for truly me. Um, but that's a huge one. I mean, the I'm not good enough story runs deep. And I feel like no matter what we unlayer, if you keep unlaying it, what's under that, what's under that, what's under that, it's it means I'm not good enough. Um abandonment, obviously, is a really big one as well. Like, um, and that plays out in so many ways of like being unable to commit to themselves, being unable to commit to relationships, um, deserve believing that they deserve to commit, or that, you know, I had a client the other day talking about like nothing seems important enough, which which means I'm not important enough, right? And so um there's a lot of that I see. Um I think the um the belief that they're behind in life, you know. I think society has a lot of rules and expectations around like what lives are supposed to look like and what women's roles in those lives. I yeah, I mean, I think if women can step out of that comparison and they can really look at you know, what they want um versus what society's telling them to want, it's often different. Um, and so um that I see a lot of obviously body issues, and that I'm seeing a lot of that in the the obviously this program and and the women that we're working with, um and and how much of that is just handed down in like a backpack from generation to generation and women are just continuing to put it on, and can they really assess, you know, is this mine? Um, you know, I I think that if we can if we can look at a a story or a thought and we can genuinely ask ourselves, like, where did this come from and why am I carrying it? If the answer is because I was taught it and because it's all I've known, like that's a huge red flag to be like, let's change, let's change this, you know. Um so yeah, those are some of the big ones that I see.

SPEAKER_04 14:35

With the I'm not enough story specifically, what do you think? And this is just you know a subject to opinion, but what do you think the I'm not enough story keeps us attached to that keeps us feeling safe?

SPEAKER_03 14:50

Oh these are fire questions, y'all. I'm over here like, oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 15:00

And I love it, the death. I'm like, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:03

Um at the end of the day, I think that it's protecting us. I think there's a protector inside of us that is um, whether it's for ourselves, like what would it, what would it actually look like if you were your most abundant, most biggest, most vibrant, most authentic self? Like what could life actually look like? And I think that some people are holding themselves back because it's so different than what their life currently looks like, and it would mean making major change, leaving a relationship, leaving a job.

SPEAKER_04 15:39

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_00 15:40

And I think people just get uh stuck and they stay because that's all they've known, or that's better than they think than having to go out and figure out a whole like start over, right? And so I think there's a protector piece in there.

SPEAKER_03 15:58

Um I guess almost like they're protecting themselves from all they know who they actually could be. From their own potential. Yeah, their own, yeah. It's like it's protection from um the idea that seems so far out of themselves, but is actually who the fuck they are.

SPEAKER_00 16:18

Just like, oh I think there's a there's a deserving piece in there. I think I think people think that they deserve, like, yeah, there's a worthiness attached to the I'm not enough. So I've been told I'm not enough, I've been shown I'm not enough, people are leaving, my parents didn't show up the way I needed them to. How you know, I've had a lot of like, if my own parents couldn't love me, what does that mean about me? How does anybody love me? You know, so there's a lot tied into it. Um, but I think there is a huge worthiness piece in there as well. And then that that requires the overdoing and the people pleasing and the you know, like the having to prove their worth um to themselves and to other people.

SPEAKER_03 17:10

Yeah, because almost like then it's like we connect collected all this negative evidence and we're like on like we're on jury, like with ourselves, like trying to prove otherwise other against all the all the evidence we've collected. And it's like, I don't know, I was talking about this with a client where um, you know, that's what she was basically saying of like I've collected all this negative evidence from from my parents, from you know, everyone outside of me. And then it's like I just fall into what do I like how do I prove that all wrong? But then I'm not actually giving myself what I need in the moment or like how I want to be living. And it's like it's those aha moments in the unlearning that you don't even realize sometimes when that's happening until work like this, and it brings it into the forefront of like, oh, this is what's actually happening here.

SPEAKER_04 18:00

And it's also perpetuated by society, right? It's like everybody else benefits, everybody outside of me benefits from me hustling and trying to prove myself all the time. Like no one's gonna be like, you know what, you don't have to do that. You should probably slow down and like you're just fine the way you are. You know, that's not that's not usually the case, is what's happening.

SPEAKER_00 18:19

I think you just really touch on something like an it it creates patterns that are um beneficial outward and it's really destructive inward. And so things like, you know, always saying yes or people pleasing or keeping the peace or making sure that you're monitoring your emotions so everyone else feels safe around you, right? Like all of that is really that's why when people start to unravel that and they change it, they're going to be met with friction before they're met with acceptance. And and that's a lot of the the hesitancy, I think, for for people as well is recognizing like what I would have to do and how much, like we said before, like how much change would actually need to happen and the barriers, the hoops I would have to go through to continue to show up for me in this way.

SPEAKER_04 19:10

And what's so crazy is that everybody that is going to give you friction is also experiencing the same thing for the most part, right? Like they're all just doing shit based on the perception of what other people want or like meeting the demands of others. And it's it, you know, I love a fitness metaphor. And it to me, it's the equivalent of, you know, like when women say, like, oh, I'm so self-conscious in the gym, like I just worry what people are gonna think of me if I don't know what I'm doing, or like everybody's self-conscious in the gym. When you go in there, everybody's only worried about what they look like, right? But they're all acting like they have to be a certain way based on the perception of other people and what they think they're gonna judge them based on. But really, everybody's just looking in the mirror or worried about what they are, or they're all secretly self-conscious. So it's like just focused on what you want out of the situation. And if everybody could just do that, there wouldn't be any friction, but then we wouldn't have that job.

SPEAKER_03 20:01

So it's like those things uh when you see people in the gym filming, it's like uh evidence that no one's actually fucking thinking about yourself. Yeah, yeah. Melissa, share with us um some more about the let's like kind of let's get to some story time here because with the work that you do prior to TPM and that you've been doing for years, even alongside your husband, and um, you know, how we all met, like we met in your work, right? We met you and I um in our work on a woman's retreat, right? Um share with us, like share with us um with your personal journey, like how how did that happen where you started then getting into more of that retreat style work and um like what led you there?

SPEAKER_00 21:01

Yeah. Um I feel like I've always been an I'll go first type of person. It's in my human design. It's a um, and I feel like the um the way the way is through for me. So when I recognize that I'm trying to work on something, um, and for me it was specifically healing my relationship with with women, um, I'm like, well, I need to start a women's community. You know, like I just need to create it. And um, and so that's what I did. Uh, I recognized that I was I was struggling with relationships with women. I was living in competition with women, I was constantly comparing. Um, I was worried about my body, I was worried about what everyone thought about it. I was worried, I was just so many things that had to do with women specifically. Um and to think back to five, six years ago. Not like loving women the way I love them right now, and like how we can all like just celebrating women the way I celebrate them now is crazy to me. Um so it started because I needed it, and um I also wanted to prove my worth because I was in that era and I wanted to be the leader of it instead of. But actually, we met at someone else's retreat. Um, and Rachel was actually honestly a beautiful permission slip for me to step into that work. Um, because I had this, I had this story of I had to be a certain level or I had to have experience or who am I to run a retreat, or and I walked into that retreat and I was so welcomed and I was so it was so um just a beautiful reminder that we can be everyday women and we can do cool shit. Like I don't need to be anything anything bigger or more special than I already am. Um and I don't need to learn more, I don't need to read more books, I can just bring who I am, and that's that's the offering, um, which has been really cool. So um I started with how do I get into the room with other women, like-minded women, how do I, how do I see how other women interact with each other when they're not in competition, when they're not comparing, when they're when they're actually loving each other and connecting with each other and celebrating each other. Um that grew into creating my own community, doing some online like courses and things like that. And then just the the next step was in person. Like, I love this. I love that you can be in Virginia and I can be in New York and we can have this conversation. Like, this is amazing to me, and this is like the junk food of connection, as Chad said. Like, you know, like um, so it it's on one hand, I'm so grateful for it because it's so accessible and it it's it's amazing. And it doesn't no, I mean I want to be I want to be in your energy, I want to physically touch you, I want to hug you, I want to love on you. Um, and so that was the next, that was the next step was getting women together in rooms um where we could do healing and growth work and just witness each other, hear each other's stories. And at the end of the day, what I've learned in all of this is like no matter where we came from, no matter what our stories is like our, we're all the same. Like we're all working through a lot of the similar stuff. Um and it's just beautiful to be witnessed in it and to be held in it. Um and so yeah, I've held women's circles. Um I'm working with a different business partner now, but her and I have another have done retreats as well. We call them sleepovers because I'm trying to get away from like retreating from our lives and like actually bringing back bringing some play. That's another one. I think that well, people in general, but women are really having a hard time accessing play and joy, um, myself included. And so um, in it in our sleepovers, we're really like bringing back that nostalgic, like what it felt to be a 13-year-old girl, like laying on the floor, like listening to your friends laugh while you're trying to go to sleep. And um, we're gonna be in beds, but it's still yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:27

You know, what you know what's funny is like for the audience listening, we all went to, you know, when we had Laura, our other coach on, um, Laura and Lakin met at a retreat. Lakin and I met at a retreat, your retreat. Um, Melissa and I met at a retreat, and Lakin, Melissa, and I went all on the same retreat but at different times, right? So the like shout out to Rachel, shout out to Rachel and Ken like that, the goddess getaway. And you know, even when I hear you talk about it now, it's like, God, the goddess getaway seems so freaking far away. And that was before like stepping into anything with retreat, before starting like the idea of, I mean, I didn't even know Lakin then, right? Like it's just so it's so wild to look back on. And when when you said you said something that stuck out to me around like, uh, I needed to get myself in the room with other women where I could see this, so I could see that that was evident. And Rachel is really a good permission slip. Like, like I know when you and I have talked about that, you know, that was similar feedback when you went to the goddess getaway. Um and I remember all of us standing in the kitchen, Melissa, and it was after, I think it was after all of our performance um and performances and stuff, and we were like, um, because we did liquid motion and things, and we were making um like chocolate covered strawberries, and it we were just like, you know, like in yoga pants and like just like totally chill, like nothing like it was like uh the feeling of like every woman that came, like if that one woman wasn't there, it's it wouldn't be the same vibe. And we were just it was like it was different. I'm like looking all around, and I'm like, oh my god, like how did I not know all of these women before? And like this is just like this is so cool. And um when you were there, the what what was one thing that stuck out to you about maybe that revealed something to you about like your magic or your energy, or like when you did put yourself around those other women that then you gave your permission, you gave permission to yourself to really like own and be.

SPEAKER_00 27:34

Yeah. I mean, you mentioned liquid motion, like that was a transformative thing for me. Um, that was me getting back into my body in a way that I have, I don't know if I've ever been in my body in that way. I mean, I felt in touch with my body as far as my intuition. I obviously exercised, like, did strength training. I was very like I was a good mover when it came to exercise. Um, I'm a good dancer, but like I wasn't sensually in my body and from a non-performative place. Like, and we were obviously like performing for each other, but it didn't feel like I needed to be anything or do anything because there were some women that literally like went out and did something silly and we all clapped. Like that was just as great as like a full-on performance. Um and that really like changed something for me, like recognized that I was missing that piece of that connection, that type of connection with my body, and then the the willingness to sit in that room and not judge and not feel like I was judged, you know, like you know, like and and not even judge myself. Like I had on this like see-through song thing, like you said, I would like I don't think I've done anything since like that, you know? And even on video, I have a freaking video of it. Yeah, so pull out the archive. Um but me, even that, even then, would have picked apart like the cellulite on my legs, or like look at that role as I'm trying on my back as I'm trying to go this way and flip my legs over, and like, and I didn't. I looked at that video and I was so proud of myself. And then I watched all of you, and there wasn't any of that of like, oh, she doesn't have any body fat, or she has more body fat than me, thank God. Or but you know, like there was none of that in that room, none of it. It was just pure celebration of who each of us were, and like, like you said, gratitude to be there. Like, it's amazing when you bring women together, the magic that happens, and like how all the right women just get put in the same place for that experience. Um, I've witnessed it over and over and over.

SPEAKER_03 29:46

Um and it's never it's like a perfect curated thing, right? It's like somehow I just I'm putting all these energies, the souls and beings in one space, and that is that's the soup. That's the magic that's I mean, yeah, to think outside of me.

SPEAKER_00 30:01

To think of the the amount of women on this planet, right? And then eight women get put into a house for a weekend and it and like that's the sum of the real word.

SPEAKER_04 30:10

Eight women for a weekend.

SPEAKER_00 30:15

And like those are the eight women that were meant to be there and had the experience that they had. Like it's it's just yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's a good idea. I give I give I give Rachel a lot of credit for that. I give Kim a lot of credit for that. You know, I'm very grateful for just I I give Hallie a lot of credit for that, you know.

SPEAKER_03 30:34

Like um, yeah, and so yeah, that that has such a permission slip in herself of like just showing what's possible that as a woman that you like to move like that and then be embodied like that, and then to know that what this does for her and like her personal journey, and then to show other women like oh, this is some this is what I've done, and like when you do this, whatever this does for you is like it's impactful in that way, and it's like God. Just even her evolution too, where it's like the um I think it's funny that it started with Rachel's retreat, where it's like just the I the idea of having the retreat is the permission slip, and then it's a permission slip for every woman to then come on the retreat, but then it's a um it's a mirrored permission slip that each of us are giving to each other unknowingly, you know? Like I thought about I thought about that like after when I if I think back to mine, where I'm like, there was that one point where I mean I think I could have, I was I I had I I felt very raw, very vulnerable, and it I needed that push to do that. And it was like, oh my god, I could just be raw, vulnerable, and real, uh emotional, all the things, and it's okay. It's okay to be like that in front of other women. I'm gonna be held or I'm gonna be celebrated even more when I'm like that, which was like, oh my god, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, for the listeners. Oh, go ahead. Oh, I was gonna say, tell us um about your experience on the goddess getaway.

SPEAKER_04 32:13

Yeah, interestingly enough, I almost was on the one that you guys were on, but I was like, nah, I don't want to go to Virginia. I'm already here. I'm trying to go somewhere else. I was like, I'm going to the Sedono.

SPEAKER_03 32:26

That's so funny because when was that? Like uh 2023? 2022, I think. Yeah, I don't know. I can't remember. I know it was in April. I know it was April. Yeah, something like that. Um but it's just funny because then you and I then didn't meet until 2024. For January of 2023.

SPEAKER_04 32:54

No, we meant in 2023.

SPEAKER_03 32:56

Okay. I don't know. All the it's all blurring together, but you get what I'm saying. Like just like it was actually a year later. But had you gone on there, then we would have known, you know what I mean? Like it's just serendipitous of eight women put in a in a room in a house or whatever. Like, what could happen from that then? Um, okay, so wait, you were supposed to go on that one, uh, share with us about yeah, ended up going to Sedona and similar experience, right?

SPEAKER_04 33:22

It we just being able to be in a space with other women, not not compare, not judge, allow whatever came up to came up, share. To me, the biggest thing is sharing stories, right? To and that's part of the reason why we do the work that we do and what Melissa was speaking to earlier is when I'm able to see a previous or even aspirational future version of myself and another woman through her story that she's willing to open up and be vulnerable and share with me. In that way, I'm it's like we're able to form a connection that I think is lost in a lot of spaces and it supersedes the the film that's usually there of comparison and judgment and uh perception and projection and you know, the it's all fear. That's all of that is just rooted in fear, right? It's like the fear of what is it, what is that person gonna think about me, or you know, what it what is um what is this gonna mean about me if I show up in this way, or like what is the consequence gonna be, that feeling of eggshells, right? And it's like when that can be eliminated and we're able to truly just relate on a level of being able to see each other in each other and intentionally be mirrors, I think that that's something that's really, really special that doesn't happen on usual social engagements, right? Because it's often buffered by either substances or surface level conversation or distractions, a lot of distractions.

SPEAKER_03 35:02

Yeah, it's true, it's true connection and intimacy, which is why I think with women, it's like this is it's not to say we can't experience that with men, right? We can, but it's it's different with women because it's not.

SPEAKER_04 35:16

Often my favorite moments that like yeah, I get togethers like that are all the moments in between, right? It's like it's not necessarily like the curated events or like the the workshops or the things that are happening that are on purpose. It's all of the little moments in between of like, oh, staying up late and having, you know, tea together, or like yeah, listening to sound bowls together, or um, yeah, exactly. Like getting up early in the morning and going out and like laying on the grass together and hanging out and having conversation or yeah, just enjoying meals or helping clean up after the meal together, right? It's like it's and that's what I think people crave is like we don't do life with people the way that we used to. And that's what I think we're able to manufacture in those in those environments, right? Where it it should be something that happens naturally on its own, and it can happen in an environment where it's conducive to it. But a lot of times our environments nowadays are just not conducive to that.

SPEAKER_01 36:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 36:15

And what you guys were talking about before of, you know, finding these, or you know, that that this I think it's hard because when we say things like, oh, you know, this is what happens when we get women together. I think for a lot of listeners, that's not their experience, and that's not what's happened. And I think that's really difficult. And so for listeners that have never had an experience like that with other women or are really wanting an experience like that for other women, what would you say is the best way to start to look for that? Like, where would where would you know a lot of women that we talked to is like, I don't even know where I would find anything like that. Yeah, I mean, um, it depends on how did you find it when you were looking for it? Well, you didn't, you created it. You were like, fuck it, I can't find it.

SPEAKER_00 36:59

Oh no, she did find it with Rachel, and then she created I I found obviously peep people, right? And lifted was people that had similar similar values, right? Um there's a like right now, uh, my current business partner, Shanna and I, we work out of a beautiful space called the Align Collective here, and it's just it's a space that you can that practitioners of any kind Reiki, sound healing, yoga, whatever, can pay to be a member of, and then you can use the space however you see fit. And so finding communities like that, I think, are really helpful. Um putting yourself out there, like if you find a women's circle or um, you know, like like I said, getting myself in the room with women um was a a huge piece of that.

SPEAKER_04 37:54

Um what's coming to me is like being willing to stop judging yourself.

SPEAKER_00 38:01

Well, I was just gonna say, Crystal mentioned intimacy. And obviously these moments are intimate when it comes to relating to the other women, but you need to be okay with what intimacy means with yourself, right? Like if you're gonna show up guarded and you're gonna show up judgmental and you're gonna show up, you know, as a critical version of yourself, then even if everything in the room is going well, like you're gonna still not feel like that.

SPEAKER_04 38:28

Well, that's also what's gonna come back to you, girl, because what you're looking for, you're gonna find, right? That that's that's why, like, when we when we talk to clients and when we have these scenarios where they're like, you know, the I hate, I hate that this is like the classic victim mentality, but it just is what it is. So I'm sorry about it. But it's like, you know, every, you know, everybody's out to get me, or they're always talking bad about me, or it's like if you genuinely look at the world through that lens, that is what you are going to find, and that is what is going to be created in your reality. Yeah. And it's like, and what is that? What's really happening there is how are you feeling about yourself? And then that's how you're translating that relation between other people. So it's like if you could stop judging yourself and just embrace your weird a little bit, like the things that you genuinely love that you're not worried about being judged for, that you stop judging yourself for, that's where you're gonna connect and find your people.

SPEAKER_00 39:19

Yes, totally. Um I think it's I think it's just getting yourself in the arena, right? It's finding, it's finding the the circles that you want to be in and putting yourself there. And even if you're not ready to show up, non-just, even if you're sitting there judging everyone, can you at least be in the room? Can you at least witness what it could look like? Can you watch the interactions between the other women? And then maybe you go back again the next month, and maybe you're not ready to share, and maybe the next month you say two words, and then maybe you're able to open up a little, you know. So um it's allowing others to be that permission slip, like we've talked about, and and model the way if you're not sure. And being unafraid to get yourself into the arena, get yourself in the room, get yourself around the women that are modeling how you want to show up.

SPEAKER_04 40:09

And just be curious. Yeah. Like, can you just show up with some curiosity? You know what I mean? Like, what if you didn't know? What if you didn't know everything that you know? You just are like, I don't know, let me see what happens.

SPEAKER_03 40:20

Let's fuck around and find out. Yeah, like allow yourself to be surprised too, because it's like you don't know until you're in that environment. Like, I that's something I will I will die on that hill. You don't know what you would do until you're in that situation or until you put yourself in that situation. And you know, when when I brought up intimacy, it's like with my experience of the goddess getaway, like I needed to have that intimacy. That's why I love being naked. Because that's most when I'm most intimate and connected to myself. Like, that is my that was a way where I could do that back for me that at that point in time hadn't felt in a long time, right? And I think that's it's interesting with embodiment and the practice of liquid motion and just like having more women get back to being in their bodies because so many women are disconnected from their bodies and they stay in their mind and they stay and they think that like it's two separate playing fields, and it's not yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:16

So so many people, I mean, we live in a disconnect. We're in the most connected era of our lives, and we are so disconnected. We're so disconnected from each other. I mean, Lakin, you mentioned like we're meant to be doing life together. Like, this is not how life is meant to be. Like go from your house to your car to your job to your house to your car to your house, never from device to device to device to device.

SPEAKER_03 41:39

Like it's just or more people even living alone, like, or you know, that there's not a lot of like majority of people would not prefer to do that.

SPEAKER_04 41:49

Well, and nobody wants to do intergenerational living anymore, you know.

SPEAKER_00 41:54

And I I think there's a lot of people that are trying to get that back, you know, trying to pull that back in. You know, we're talking about like Chad's mom, you know, once she gets older, like what that will look like. And so there's there's a pull, I think, in certain circles where that is happening. And it's still it's not enough. It's not enough to go to these retreats every quarter, right? Like it's yeah, it it really is like how do you get the people um in your sphere that you can actually count on when shit goes down, when you actually need something.

SPEAKER_04 42:28

Yeah, your tribe. Where where can you build your tribe?

SPEAKER_00 42:30

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 42:32

You mentioned something earlier. Oh, go ahead.

SPEAKER_03 42:34

No, no, you go ahead.

SPEAKER_04 42:35

I was gonna say you mentioned something earlier. You were talking about, you know, I prefer to be able to coach this way. And we get a lot of comparison to therapy, right? But we very much prefer to stay with the coaching hat for good reason. And I would love to hear from your viewpoint, Melissa, how is what we do different than traditional talk therapy or you know, other modalities that are very popular that you're gonna see out there.

SPEAKER_00 43:03

Yeah. Um, I mean, I think there's benefit to all of it. I think there's a time and a place, and I think that there's an opportunity for um those professionals to be a part of your journey. Uh, what I love specifically about what I'm able to offer is that I can pull from anywhere and anything and bring it to our sessions. I'm not restricted by a license. I'm not restricted by, you know, I have to stay in this box because this is where I went to, this is how I went to school, this is what I learned. Um I think that we are a society that's trying to heal feeling problems with thinking solutions. And so I think talk therapy has a has a time and a place to a point. And then I think the embodiment piece needs to be a part of the the journey, or you're missing out. I mean, I have countless clients that are sitting with me for the first 45 minutes ever, you know. The first time they meet me and they're like, that was more impactful because you asked me, where did I feel it in my body? How did how does that affect me? What if I moved with it? What if I breathed with breathed with it? Yeah. And so I think that there's the embodiment piece that's missing in a lot of therapeutic sessions. And so that's what I love. I love the nervous system component that I bring in. I love the somatic component that I bring in. I know we bring in. I just think there's a beautiful opportunity to actually like now it's it's one thing to think differently, but now what do you do with that? How do you actually become that person that thinks differently?

SPEAKER_03 44:41

Right. Which leads me into my question. So it wind up lining up perfect, right? Where, you know, so um so much of this is like you said, of like we're trying to solve feeling problems with thinking solutions, and the parts that once then start to do this of like integration and like how important that is. And you mentioned something earlier around um like this, is it something that you do like field, right? Like this is something that you get to keep practicing as these things come up. And so um maybe if you want to share from your personal journey or just what you are able to, your style of helping women integrate, has that really been the foundation of why you've created all you've created, of like the containers and the space for it to help them do that?

SPEAKER_00 45:30

Um, I mean, yeah, the the journey that I've been on. I mean, once once I recognized that this was more than just me writing down things and changing the words, um I I went down all different rabbit holes, right? And so um I've done a lot of plant medicine work. That's been life-changing for me. Um, and including the somatic and embodiment piece plus the enlifted type story work, like actually writing while on something like psilocybin or mushrooms, um, has been life-changing for me. That has been, that has been like the biggest thing it that has propelled my growth. Um somatic work, like getting, and and all somatic is is just getting the head and the body together, right? And so it's bringing, it's doing the mind work and it's doing the body work, and it's now like, okay, how you mentioned integration, like how do we come together? The definition, if you look at the etymology of integration, it's to become whole, right? So what we're doing is we're taking all these pieces like a puzzle and we're putting them back into ourself and we're we're moving forward from that wholeness, from that one, that solid piece, right? And so um I do a lot of nervous system somatic type work. So lymph work, fascial work, um, rocking, shaking, humming, drumming, jumping, all of that to actually feel what I'm feeling. Um, and recognizing how it's how it's moving through me, how it's getting stuck, what it, what it's actually doing in my body. I mean, I literally had a conversation today with a woman around like, if you keep shoving and shoving and shoving, you are creating disease in your body. And if you break up the word disease, it's this ease. So if your life feels like it's never in flow and you're stuck and it's constant, that's what you're creating. That's what you're manifesting by just shoving and shoving and shoving. And so um, you know, there's been countless times where I'm jumping on a mini trampoline for my lymph health, and I'm just I start fucking, I'm fucking bawling. I'm ball, like all of a sudden I'm just crying and I'm shaking and I'm like, what is happening? And I can't, and sometimes I don't even think there's a necessity to name it. I don't think there needs to be a a reason. I don't think it needs to be attached to anything. I just sometimes it's just I needed a good five minute cry while I was jumping on this trampoline and now I feel fucking great. Now what?

SPEAKER_03 47:58

Yeah, you know, yeah, it's regulating, crying is regulating, screaming, all of those things. Right.

SPEAKER_00 48:03

Uh yeah. And and you know, the word regulation, I think too, is it's a huge buzzword, obviously, right now. And people think that regulation means I need to be this calm, grounded, like Buddha, right? And that's not at all that's not at all what regulation is. Regulation is having the window of tolerance and the capacity to hold all the emotions, to feel all the emotions. And so this is why I have such a to express them, to get them up through your body, right? And this is why I have such a hard time when someone's on something like an SSRI, because it doesn't just numb the hard shit, it numbs everything. You know, I had a client, I had a client once talk to me about like they had to put her like beloved dog like to sleep. They had to put him down, and she didn't, she had no reaction to it. And it that was like a light bulb of oh my god, this is not just this is this is blocking, it's blocking everything. You know, I am literally just numb. And for me being such a feeling person, like so attached to my feelings, that just seems like such a I don't know, I don't want to say waste of life, but like a disservice, like just such a a like a sad life. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 49:16

Yeah. Well, yeah, because it's unplugging you from yourself. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 49:22

Did I answer your question, Crystal? I don't even know what the question was.

SPEAKER_03 49:27

More so about like the integration, right? Of like how that that has been, you know, I I I want to touch on this because I know um, you know, like you're you're a mother, you're this, I've told you this before, this version of uh woman that like I can so appreciate and aspire to be like when that time comes. And like I think, you know, with everything that you've been able to do within yourself, do within you know what you're creating, do within your life work, your purpose, your passion, all of that. Um how what is the main thing you've seen in this translate and how you are raising the next generation, raising your girls?

SPEAKER_00 50:07

Oh gosh. Um I think if if you want to be a mom or a parent in general, it is the the biggest honor, the hardest job, and it is the best way to evolve. It's the biggest growth like opportunity I've ever been a part of. Um, my daughters are the ultimate mirrors. So they and I would like to, I I say this all the time. Like, I would like to think that I would be doing all this work for myself if I didn't have kids. And I can't honestly, like you said, I'm not there. I started after I had kids. So I'm not on, I can't say that I would. Um and so I'm so grateful for that because this is who I'm supposed to be. This is who I'm meant to be. I'm literally living, feeling like I'm living in my dharma, and um, it has a lot to do with them. Um my husband is also a huge piece of that. Him and I have been together for a very long time, and we've been able to grow and evolve. Um we've been able to grow and evolve and choose each iteration of each other over and over and over, which I think has been um the biggest flex uh for for that. Um and our girls can see what it what it looks like to go through hard stuff. Well, they didn't see a lot of the hard stuff, but um to just keep choosing each other, even when life feels stressful. Um one of the biggest things is uh two two things I think that we're really, really focusing on would be um repair when we fuck up. Like actually take like showing them what it looks like and what it sounds like to take ownership and actually apologize. Um and and repair so so important because so many so many kids only see the conflict, right?

SPEAKER_04 52:05

They only see the fracture. Yeah, but the repair is often done behind closed doors because it's much more controlled, right? Like the fracture happens and it's uh often either not expected or it it's big, it feels uncontrollable, right? And so they're a witness to that either or it's unintentionally or by proxy. And then the repair is often something that's like, oh, we we're not gonna this is private for it, right? So they don't get the chance to see that.

SPEAKER_00 52:30

Right. And that's and that's with with Chad and I, but also with them. Like, we'll own like that was not okay how I acted, or I should not have talked to you like that, or without the projection of like I shouldn't have talked, I shouldn't have talked to you like that, but you were being a little shit. Like that's not that's not a repair, right? And that's like a lot of people apologize. They're like, well, sorry, you felt that way. And I'm like, right an apology, not a repair, you know? And so um, we really talked to them a lot about like taking ownership, admitting when they mess up. Um, and I think, you know, Chad had a much different childhood than me. So he saw the the fallen idol for him happened a lot earlier in life. Um, for me, it was much later, much later that I recognized that like my parents were incapable of certain things or weren't as in touch with their emotions as I thought they were, or they weren't able to be there in ways that I thought they were able to be. So like that fallen idol piece. And so, like, really also like setting that up for our kids and being like, like, we're we're a mess. Like, I don't know what the hell I'm doing. And like, you know, I'm doing the best I can. Yeah, yeah, you know, but like please don't don't ever put me on that pedestal if you can avoid it, right? Because um, we are very, very falluble humans, and that's what makes us us, and that's that's a cool thing, that's a good thing. That's you know, so um, yeah, we do a lot of recognizing emotions, validating emotions, but also like holding them accountable for like you can be angry about this, but you can't beat the shit out of your sister. Like, that's not okay, you know. Like, really, um, we're gentle to a point, and then we really hold them accountable for their actions, for um consequent Chad's much better at holding consequences than I am. I like turn into like a weird, I'm like, nah, I don't want to do that. And he's like, We're doing it. I'm like, okay. So um, but it's it's really been important. They're yeah, they're they're really cool little humans. So yeah, I'm very grateful.

SPEAKER_04 54:39

They are cool humans, I will say they are they are literally so cool.

SPEAKER_03 54:44

I'm like, can we be besties? We are in my mind.

SPEAKER_04 54:48

One more question. If there was one thing that you wish more women understood about the way that they feel like their mind and uh their nervous system or their mind and their body is working against them, what would you want them to understand?

SPEAKER_02 55:08

Good question.

SPEAKER_00 55:09

Yeah, um, I'd want them to understand that it's a lot scarier inside your head. And this is an unlifted thing, right? Um, it's a lot bigger. It's and this could be like a to-do list or a scary story, right? Like it's much bigger, it's much um harder to manage inside your head. Get it down and write it down, and then once you write it down, move with it in some way. Go for a walk with it, jump on a trampoline with it, rock your hips to it, dance with it, whatever that looks like for you. But recognizing that once it's down on paper, it's much more manageable, it's way less scary, and once you allow your body to actually move with it, it's you usually walk away from that experience with like action steps, right? Like, oh, I can just go do this thing, or I can just be this thing, or I can let go of this thing. Um so yeah, those would be my two things. Write it down, get it out of your head, and then move with it in some way.

SPEAKER_04 56:19

Yeah, like work with it, not against it.

SPEAKER_03 56:21

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 56:22

Yeah. Yep. Awesome. So do you have any other questions?

SPEAKER_03 56:27

I don't know. I'm like, I'm pondering in my mind, but we said one last one. It's like a Rolodex up in here. Um, there's so much that we could ask you for that. I can always come back. Yes, you absolutely can come back. We want to have you back. And I'm sure everyone listening is like, yes, please have her back because I've been writing a whole bunch of stuff down. And I'm like, I need this energy. Um I Melissa, where can people find you?

SPEAKER_04 56:51

Like if they were interested in your in-person offers or you know, wanted to get together with you and and and love on your energy in person.

SPEAKER_00 56:59

Yeah. Um, they can follow me at Evolve with Melissa on Instagram. Um, also, my beautiful business partner, Shanna, and I um our our business is called Rise Align Shine. So um they can follow us there. And then our retreat sleepover is in July um in Honesdale, Pennsylvania. So uh yeah, I could always send some info on that too.

SPEAKER_03 57:24

Yeah, yes, we left here. Well, I'm glad that you're able to plug them in so that they can keep absorbing your lovely management energy, and we'll definitely have you back for sure on the podcast. Um, if you are lucky, if you are a client maybe listening and you're lucky to meet Melissa, work with her. Uh, she has an upcoming workshop coming up this month later on on the 19th. Um, all those details are in our socials, in our bios. And we just appreciate you so much for being on. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_04 57:57

Thank you for taking the time today, Melissa. We really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 58:00

Absolutely. Anytime. Love you guys. Yes, love you. Bye. Bye.