EPP: Meet Diana (How to keep rolling for a lifetime)

Jiujitsu is a physical sport that is incredibly demanding on the body. This week Emily sits down with her friend Diana. Diana Wang is a seasoned physical therapist with nearly a decade of experience and a passion for Jiu-Jitsu. She has dedicated her career to helping athletes understand their bodies and prevent injuries, particularly in the BJJ community. Through her work at Open Mat Physio, she offers tailored services that cater to the unique needs of Jiu-Jitsu practitioners. Take a listen and learn about the important choices on and off the mat that will keep you training for the long run.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:04

Hi everyone and welcome to Emily's Pajama Party. I'm your host, Emily, and I'm so glad you're here. If this is your first time listening, welcome. I hope you enjoy what you hear. If you're returning, thank you, thank you, thank you. We have another awesome episode ahead and let's all listen together. I always talk about ways that my game can get better, and this one comes straight from the mat for me. I talk a lot about floppy limbs and all sorts of things. And my takeaway this week is I can't play lazy jujitsu. Nothing is gonna come from me flopping around. And the earlier I learn that and the more that I practice it, the better off I will be. It is such a workout on the mat. My arms are pushing and pulling and my hips and I'm bumping and all parts of me are moving all at the same time. And I always remember there are like a host of muscles I generally don't think about outside of jujitsu. But as much as I think I'm moving, I can do an even better job. So stay, I have to really remember to stay sticky and stay engaged. My core is always engaged. I'm surprised how much my triceps and my traps and my lats are working. If I finish a roll tired, of course, am I conserving energy, whatever, fight or flight? Yes, but I need to remember that the stronger I get from keeping my core engaged or not being lazy, the better I will off I will be, not only to make me a formidable opponent, but also just a good training partner that people want to train with. It's really hard to drill techniques when the other person doesn't react as they would in a real life situation. So stay sticky, y'all. I'm super excited to introduce you to my friend Diana today. In the world of Brazilian jujitsu, we are just in the throes and thrill of rolling and mastering techniques, and can sometimes that can overshadow the importance of injury prevention. As athletes, we push our bodies to the limit, often neglecting the necessary precautions that can keep us on the mess longer. So today we're going to talk with Diana, a sports physical therapist, and she's going to talk about what she does through open mat physio and all the important ways that keep us on the mat for the long run. I was interested going into this conversation because I was thinking, are we going to talk about the proactive or reactive approach? And it's kind of all of it. And if our goal is to be on the mat as long as possible, she shares the really important structured foundation that will keep us rolling for a lifetime. So listen in to our conversation with Diana. Diana, thank you so much for joining me on the podcast today. Hi, Emily. Thanks for having me. As we jump into our conversation, how would you describe yourself outside of jujitsu, just in life, all of that stuff?

SPEAKER_01 2:51

Oh, that's a good question. Nobody's ever asked me that question in that way. But I guess, okay, multifaceted. First things first is that I am a daughter, I am a sister, I am a physical therapist, I am a friend, all these things. But um, I think the biggest thing if we were to look at kind of my how I identify is being a person who really cares about helping people. And I think that has really shown in the path of profession that I've taken as being a physical therapist and also being in the business that we've created called OpenMet Physio, which is all around being able to serve a community that I saw was underserved when I first started as a physical therapist. A community that was very much misunderstood almost and dismissed in a way, just listening to my training partners, listening to friends who have gone to doctors' offices, and doctors did first of all did not know what jujitsu was. And then, second of all, had no idea how to help them. So that kind of led me down the path of starting open metaphysio. So I think to answer a question is just I really care about helping people. I really want people to get better and want people to live the life that they want to do want to live, and and that's like where what has guided me, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 4:24

I would imagine you are that noticer, like at highly observant as a child and even growing up, like looking and watching and then anticipating.

SPEAKER_01 4:33

I am the oldest eld well, I'm the eldest daughter in uh in out of three. So it's uh it's it's uh in my blood, I guess, of being very observant, also being the one that has to make all the decisions in a lot of ways as I've grown up. But my siblings are also really great and have done really very well for themselves. But I remember as a child that was like my main role.

SPEAKER_02 4:59

And that is a big decision for like as a child, because they tend like the four and five year olds I work with are very egotistical because that is inherently how we survive, right? As if we were cavemen, you had to worry about yourself in order to go forward certain and then grow up, make more cave people. But to be able to, I'm sure, like look out for people's best needs and recognizing that as a child, that was a big responsibility, but also something that it sounds like you melted right into or were created for, however, we look at it.

SPEAKER_01 5:32

I think it's you know, I when I look back to my childhood, I don't know if this is a good or bad thing. I think maybe there's been good outcomes and uh maybe some things that I had to work through as an adult. But my parents always told me since I was little, after my sister was born, at an age where I could understand words and understand concepts, that I had to always lead by example. They always said that whatever I did, my siblings are gonna look at and think it's okay to do, that I had to always try to set a good example for them. And I think as an adult, I realized that could have been a lot of pressure put on me as a child because I wasn't really given the space to just make decisions without thinking about anybody else. Um, but at the same time, I look at it in a way where it's really led me to a place of being very intentional as well as very prideful in being somebody that is reliable, somebody that is um people can come to if they need something, people can look at as like a um not someone who has all the answers, but somebody who is who can figure it out with you. And I think that has really shaped me as a person for sure.

SPEAKER_02 6:51

I love that. So then getting into jujitsu, did you play sports growing up? Did who introduced you? Did you just like on a whim decide to go for it?

SPEAKER_01 7:02

So yeah, that's a that's a good question. When I was in high school, so I've been uh I played sports for a very, very long time since I was young. My dad, I had a theory that my dad didn't think that he was gonna have a boy because my brother came third. So uh he was like, I'm just gonna put her in all the sports and see if there's anything that she likes. And so when I was young, I played a little bit of tennis, a little bit of golf, a little bit of I swam, like I played a bunch of instruments, um, and I like eventually landed on basketball. So I was probably in middle school and I started playing basketball a little bit. And the coach at the time said, Oh, I think she's like has like a natural talent for this sport. So joined the team in high school. I played four years on varsity, which was pretty like at that time a big deal. And I decided after high school, I was like, okay, I'm kind of done with competitive sports. I was uh had a couple offers to like D3 schools to play basketball, but I also in the back of my head knew that I wanted to go into sports medicine just because I've always been interested in sports, but I didn't really want to go down the path of being a doctor. So I was like, oh, I want to go into something like PT. So instead of taking the athletic route, I ended up taking the academic route. And so ended up going to PT school, finished PT school. During PT school, a lot of us were big in the gym. We loved going to the gym together and all that. So I think that's where I built my foundation of lifting weights. And then after PT school, my first job out as a physical therapist, I did it really love just because it was that traditional insurance-based clinic. That long story short, they had a lot of empty promises of giving me a lot of opportunity, and then it was underdelivered as well as they ended up making me do more than I agreed to in the beginning. But during that time, some some pros that came out of that time was I made some really great friends who were uh physical therapy aides at the time and now they're all PTs, which is really cool. But the other thing is that I found jujitsu. So when I was working my first job, I was also in the transition phase of looking for something new in terms of like physical activity, just because I didn't have much of a goal. I was going to the gym, I was lifting weights, but I didn't really have a goal of okay, I have something to work towards. And so one day my friend was like, Oh, why don't you just like check out there's like a local MMA gym, just go check it out. They have some kickboxing classes, and I said, sure. So we went, I took my first kickboxing class and it was a lot of fun. And I felt like I got a good sweat, and I was like, Oh, yeah, this is great. But then I remember there was like maybe like my third week. I looked over and I saw this guy teaching, like these people are like putting on their gis and they were about to get on the mats, and I think it was an open mat. So they were like rolling. And after class, I went over, I was like, Oh, this is really interesting. Like, what are you guys doing? I was a little nervous because I'd never seen those people before. But then the coach was like, Oh, I'm actually teaching like a trial class like tomorrow or something, if you want to come. So the next day there were maybe like three or four of us, and we jumped on the mats, and I was like, ever since then, I'm like, I think this is something I really want to continue doing. So that's how I found jujitsu.

SPEAKER_02 10:16

I love that, and what perfect timing because I think something intimidating about jujitsu is that when you go to something like an open mat or you see 20, 30 people in a class and everybody looks like they know what they're doing, it would be really hard for me to be able to jump in blindly and say, throw me in! I have no experience because everyone else has five years or whatever the case is. Because I feel like everyone in jujitsu has been there for like 15 years to my two. Yeah. But I love that the idea of having three or four brand new and like learning kind of all the basics together. That'd have been that was great.

SPEAKER_01 10:51

That was awesome. And I think that's why nowadays, when um like this morning, we had a girl that she said it was her third jujitsu class, and so she joined us and uh, or at least third jujitsu class with us, but she was like very excited and and all that. And I just remember every time I meet a white belt, I always remember back to my white belt days and not knowing anything and feeling overwhelmed and all. So whenever people come, I at least try to be a little bit more welcoming, but at the same time, hey, you don't have to learn everything today. You all you have to take away is maybe one or two things, and that is gonna at least set the foundation for you because eventually you're gonna learn more, but you can't rush the process, you know. But she was really nice, she was really great. We did some um some like games and stuff to help her with garbage tension, and it just every time I meet a white ball, I always remind remind myself of what it felt like in the very beginning.

SPEAKER_02 11:44

How long have you been training? I've been training for almost seven years now. That's awesome. And it's funny, it's funny to me because you could have also told me that working in PT, you just had a lot of clients that came in that were from Jujutsu experiences that you couldn't work for. I'm like, oh, that would make sense as well. And so I like just because so many parts of the body and we are turned into all sorts of pretzel and spaghetti noodle shapes, yeah, that I'm sure that you get to see a lot of different clients that come in. But I would imagine that working in physical therapy, you're used like all those nuanced muscles and the soleus and the this and the that, you're like, ah, I know that that's used, I know how to strengthen it, I know how to prevent injury. That must really come in handy for you.

SPEAKER_01 12:35

For sure. I think um we were on a podcast yesterday, Chris and I, and he was asking us about how being a PC has it changed the way that you see um jujitsu and has it impacted it? Because I've been training jujitsu for seven years now. I've been a PC for almost 10 years, so it's kind of like crazy to see the how the journey has come with both of those uh endeavors. But I definitely think being a PT has allowed me to be a little bit more empathetic about the things that we go through as jujitsu athletes, just because if I weren't a PT and I heard somebody say, Oh yeah, like I hurt this or I hurt that, then I probably would just brush it off, be like, Oh yeah, just like rub some dirt on it and just figure it out. But as a PT now, it helps me in a physical standpoint of when I'm in the middle of a role, if something doesn't feel right, or we're in a like position that just feels like it could be on the brink of something bad. I usually stop and say, Hey, are you good? And the person's like, Oh, I'm good, and then we just keep going, right? Just like a quick check-in. But on the other end, it's been such a great experience of being able to learn about the jiu-jitsu specific lifestyle, but also everything that goes on psychologically, everything that goes on emotionally and spiritually within the practice that can affect somebody's ability to come back from an injury. So I think overall it's been such an organic blend. Like I didn't think about moving in this direction immediately after PT school because I discovered P I discovered jujitsu during my first job. But at the same time, I think my instinct was, oh, I was training and I met a bunch of people who were always injured. And they would always complain to me that they would go to the doctor or go to PT and they didn't get the proper care, they're always like chronically injured. So it led me to believe two one plus one equals two, right? Like if I just decided, hey, let me see if there's any way it can create a space and a service that could speak to the jujitsu athlete that can help jujitsu athletes feel understood, actually have a tangible plan to get them back to training. And then also I can do this and have fun with my friends. Like, isn't that the best case scenario? So that's kind of the birth of Open Map Physio, and I I'm very grateful. It's been four years of doing this full time, so it's been like such a journey.

SPEAKER_02 15:04

I have kind of a behavior background. And so when we look at behavior, there's something that happened before that triggered the behavior to get a concert, like get either get something, get away from something. Do you find yourself more proactive or reactive when working? Because I know that if I I can do things to prevent injuries by like lifting weights, really working on body stability, single-leg things, really isolating movement. That will create a better base in order to keep me healthier. But I also know that oh, I broke my toe. I need to tape it like this to get better. But also in the meantime, these are the some things I can do. So are you more proactive, reactive, or kind of a mixture of both? Or does that even make sense because I do not have a doctor brain?

SPEAKER_01 15:46

No, no. It 100% makes 100% makes sense. I think when it comes to messaging and what we want to spread to the jujitsu community, it's heavily proactive. So a lot of the things that we talk about are some of the things that you mentioned already, which is lifting weights, managing your recovery, taking care of your body in a very proactive way. But at the same time, we have to think about what are ways that we can do that on the mats and things like picking your training partners intelligently, uh training with people that you feel comfortable with, not being afraid to say no, and at the same time, managing your volume and intensity. This is the biggest conversation we have with every single client. I don't, I can't name one client that we have not had that conversation because jujitsu athletes are so prone to wanting to train all the time. And that's fine. Like if you want to train all the time, it's not a big deal. I tell people you want to train every day, I can help you train every day. But we have to learn how to manage your intensity and volume. Because if you can't manage your intensity and volume, you're constantly going to be stressing your body and you're not going to be able to recover from it. So if you can't recover from the stress that you're putting on your body, then you're always going to be stressed. And that's not a good state for us to be in. So we are very proactive when it comes to that side of these are intentional things that you can think about and the biggest rocks that you have to move in order for you to put yourself in the best position to be as injury-free as possible. However, we also acknowledge that it's impossible to avoid injuries 100%. When people say prevent injuries, I hate using the word prevention or prevent just because it's not something that we can really tangibly say is true because it's things happen, right? But we can also give, be reactive in a way of if something were to happen, we have tools and ways to help you get back around. And then that's where the conversation comes in about pain management, building a foundation, assessing and figuring out what is missing in the foundation, rebuilding that foundation, and then ultimately bridging that gap back to sports performance, athletic development, getting back to jujitsu. So a bit of both, a lot more proactive when it comes to the message that we send, but we provide the service for when things inevitably happen.

SPEAKER_02 18:04

I think you there were so many really important parts in there because ending with it's inevitably gonna be happening, it's a sport where you are rolling around with someone and trying to submit them. I mean, regardless, and then strength involved, technique, someone gets hurt, and not that other sports don't. It's just kind of you have to expect it anywhere. I guess, and I would rather get I don't want to say I ever want to be injured, but doing so on a mat because I was working really hard with somebody sounds better than I was turning when I was carrying a laundry basket and I fell and hurt myself. So I choose a life where I'm going to be taking risks. But I love that part about knowing your body and knowing who to work with. Like my background is I I ran, I've run a lot in my lifetime and blah, blah, blah. That is a very solo activity. And yes, there are outside factors, maybe uneven pavement or terrain or time of day. Injuries can happen that way. But in jujitsu, it really is a sport you have to do with somebody else. So I can be finger quote safe for myself or even for the other person. And sometimes just things happen, but I have to be smart on who I choose. And sometimes I can get heady where I'm brave. I can work with anyone. But it that's not always smart. Like I can be thoughtful, I can be brave and smart at the same time.

SPEAKER_01 19:27

Yeah. And and uh to your point, I think sometimes we forget that jujitsu is such a trust-based sport. It's something where you need to have a lot of trust in the other person to have your best interest at heart, you have their best interests at heart, that you're gonna get a good round in, you're gonna practice your skills, but at the same time protect each other, right? Maybe because jujitsu is a bit of a more like a male-dominated sport, so it's like, ah, yeah, ooh, yeah, we're here to fight. You know what I mean? Like, there's not there's less of that conversation, but I think it's starting to happen more, which is cool, seeing a lot more of these higher-level men who are talking about, hey, like, I'm gonna say no if you come at me in a weird way. Like, even Craig Jones, he's like, if you try to disrespect me, I have no choice but to hurt you in that way. You know what I mean? It's like unfortunate, but I think the message he's trying to get across is like we have to be intentional about the the way that we are with the people that we train with. Because if you're gonna try to come at me and make it dangerous for me, then I have no choice but to protect myself. And we never want to put each other in this position. So, especially if we're in a training room with our friends, with people that we love being around on a regular basis, it is our responsibility to not just choose the right people to train with. Like, you're not gonna train with somebody, it doesn't make any sense for you to train with like a 250-pound man who has like is like six inches taller than you. You know what I mean? Like it just doesn't make any sense unless he is extremely, he's proven to you that he's extremely good at working at your pace or doing things like that. But at the same time, while we're choosing our training partners intelligently, we also have to be intentional about being a good training partner. So understanding that we take both responsibilities. We, the more that we can have this more uh um comprehensive approach, I think we can start to build safer training rooms, especially with everything going on in the jiu-jitsu world about like unsafe training situations, men and women, and all these boundaries being crossed, that opens up a whole conversation about like, okay, well, we don't want men to feel like they can't train with women, but we also don't want men women to feel like they can't train with men. But how do we come and create an environment where both feel comfortable? And I think it comes down to culture, comes down to culture, conversations, uh, communication. And I can say, at least for myself, that the training room that I'm in, all the men are super like really good to train with. They're all very respectful, we're all good friends, we all listen to each other. Our goal is just to get better, and um they're always very like transparent. About things if they're maybe uncomfortable with brolling with certain people. So it's it's nice, but at the same time, I know that's not a reality for everybody.

SPEAKER_02 22:07

Yeah, I think represent that representation and stewardship that I bring as a female on the mat. I have a responsibility to keep myself safe, keep my others safe, keep others safe, but also show it and be the example to the men. Like, here's a girl that is confident, she's trusting, I can trust her just like she's gonna trust me. But you're right, like everybody needs to be stakeholders and understand that they play a bigger role in that. And that gym community is so important. And it doesn't mean that we are all best friends and that we're hanging outside outside the gym together. It means showing up on the mat. And this is quality training, intentional training, I can learn from anybody I roll with if I go in with the right attitude and the right expectation.

SPEAKER_01 22:57

Absolutely. And I think, you know, when we are talking about injury management and all that kind of stuff and talking about how that is such a proactive way to go about things, there's also like the other side where if you want to train hard and you want to like get really hard rounds in, it just comes down to communication. You don't have to always be like, oh, I can't train with this person because they're like a little bit more timid or they don't want to like train hard. You can just find somebody that can train hard with you. It's not saying no training hard. Like I think people take it the wrong way when sometimes we talk about being very mindful of being a good training partner. It doesn't mean that you can't train hard. If me and whoever I'm training with say, hey, like today we're gonna scrap, cool, let's do it, you know? But if I'm like, oh, my back is kind of sore, I'm I just kind of want to go 50%, and they're not the person for me then today, then I can just find somebody else that's willing to go at that pace, you know.

SPEAKER_02 23:51

Sure. And I think when I go into a role and just starting at a new gym, you just don't have anybody safe yet. And that doesn't mean there's not safe people in the room, but eventually you're going to have to allow people in to work with. And I feel like if I'm gonna work with a man for the first time, um, and he's like a colored belt, or even though maybe I would do it more if it was a lower belt, I kind of go in and I make a joke. I'm like, I prefer not to be murdered today. And it's anywhere else, that would be a really odd statement to say to a stranger that on the mat, it's very sometimes you'll get like a little bit of an ego, and they're like, oh, I hope you don't take advantage of me, or blah, blah, blah, whatever they say. But we go in kind of with a if they kind of smile about it, they acknowledge it, they understand. I don't want to hurt them. I would appreciate it if they didn't hurt me just because they can. And so that has been such an easy way to kind of connect and decide, wait, wait, wow, I can now extend my circle. Or if there's a white belt that I am taking a chance on and I see zero stripes and their uniform is very crisp, I might talk about flow rolling and they're like, what's that? And then they're like, that sounds great to go low um low speed. And then they just come with this energy, and I'm like, that's that's not, but if we can kind of work through it, I've had some come back, they're like, oh, flow roll, right? Because they know that they don't have to be so fight or flighty in that moment.

SPEAKER_01 25:16

Yeah, yeah. I think there's also the very, I mean, everything's nuanced base, right? I've definitely been in situations where I've gone to a gym that like when I'm traveling and I don't know anybody and I go on around and it's like a maybe a guy that's maybe a little bigger than me, maybe we don't speak the same language. Like I've been to Korea and I've trained in Korea and Portugal and stuff, but they go super hard, then it's my responsibility to just concede. I don't, I'm not here to play the this game if you're gonna go super hard. My job here, I'm I'm traveling, I'm here to enjoy this country, and I'm not trying to, you know, this isn't like uh an MMA or like UFC belt title. Like I'm here to just get a good sweat in. And if you're gonna go hard and maybe you're not aware of it, we can't communicate, then I'm just gonna concede. And that's okay. That's okay. I'm not here to win or anything. I think that's those are the nuances that come with things where as long as we can recognize that our ego doesn't have to be in every single role, it makes it easier to approach the situation and say, hey, okay, that's okay. And then just like after the round's over, shake their hand and move on, you know.

SPEAKER_02 26:24

Yeah, if I'm rolling with friends, I will absolutely not tap to pressure. I'm like, I'm gonna fight through this until there's nothing else I can do. But I was working, we were doing like cross collars and like bravo jokes, and the coach walked by and my partner was a little nervous. He's like, I thought I had it, but you weren't tapping. And I said, Oh no, I tap early and I tap often. I am not a hero. This is not something if I if my whole body is contorted, can't move my arms, I'm not going to keep fighting because no good's gonna come from it. I don't want to pass out on the mat.

unknown 26:56

What's gonna happen then?

SPEAKER_02 26:58

I think it's fair as I'd like wet my pants or something. No, I don't want to do that on the mat with everyone else. So I'll just step out, live to fight another day.

SPEAKER_01 27:07

Smart. Top early, tap often is a great tip for sure.

SPEAKER_02 27:12

Okay, one of those things we met at um in Brea in January. They had like a women's seminar, and you came in. And what I what stands out most in my mind is that you talk about little snippets and like your your um activity snack, exercise snack, movement snack.

SPEAKER_01 27:26

Movement snack, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_02 27:27

I got there.

SPEAKER_01 27:28

You got it, but I love it.

SPEAKER_02 27:30

I feel like in life, these are the micro learning opportunities that really stick with you, and you've been so great, especially in social media, delivering what people need. What are some of the things that you find that grapplers could benefit most from these days? Oh that's a big question.

SPEAKER_01 27:48

Yeah, I think it depends on the population of the grappler, but we get a lot of people. There's like some other PTs out there who get a lot of competitors or they work heavily with kids, like kids' competitors and stuff. But for open mat physio, we get a lot of people who are just like the daily hobbyists, like they might compete here and there, but they a lot of times they have um a full-time job, kids, a family. They're very busy people. And on top of that, they're sitting at a desk all day, right? And that that's like their job. So we get a lot of people who come to us with chronic pain, like they got injured at jujitsu, they didn't really deal with it for that um quickly enough, they finally dealt with it, but now it's like come became a thing where it's lingered on for maybe four to five months or something. So now we have to create strategies. One of the things that you brought up, which is great, is movement stacks, right? Everyone talks about, oh man, like after work, I go train and then my body's just really sore and painful all the time. Say, okay, well, if we're already doing the right things with rehab and we're making progress, but you're still having this problem, then it probably isn't the exercises that you're doing in the rehab or in the gym. It might just be your lifestyle. So movement snacks is something that is such a tangible, easy, not solution, but tip to give people to say, hey, sitting at a desk, standing at a desk, standing for eight hours is just not ideal. Our bodies need to move and change positions. Motion is lotion. So we just tell people set an alarm, maybe every hour, two hours, and go up and go grab some water or go and do like 10 squats or anything, whatever, whatever pick up, pick of your choosing, right? Of just moving, something different that you haven't done in the last hour or two hours. And it's actually such a great little tip because so many people come back and say, Oh yeah, that achiness or that soreness, that persistent soreness is not as uh um noticeable anymore, which is great. Then they have more energy and feel more confident about their body once they go to jujitsu, which then trickles down to being confident with the rehab and doing all these things just from that small tip. So I think that's one. I think the other thing that obviously is very hard for us to control sometimes, but it's not, is that volume and intensity thing that we talked about. And it's a bigger conversation, but we always give like as tangible, as easy of a tip is a high-low principle, which is if you're gonna have a week of training, you can have a high day followed by a low day, followed by a high day, followed by a low day. And that's how we tell the competitors that we've worked with in the past that this is how you train every day. If you don't give your nervous system time to recover, then you're never going to be able to fully recover. And you can only train as much as you can recover from. So if we give them at least a strategy, then it gives them an opportunity to say, okay, cool, like I can implement this into my schedule. I think the last thing that we uh is really important for grapplers is just the whole larger conversation around like, I just want to fix it, I just want like a quick fix, which I think you know, in the running community too, I think that's also like a big thing. In athletes' communities, it's very it's a big thing. But because you see so many things come out, like um CBD companies or like um bracing companies or red light companies, like they all claim this big thing of if you use this every day, you're we're gonna help you decrease injuries, which is false. It's false advertising because as much as it can help contribute to your body potentially recovering a little bit better, it is such a micro in the macro that people end up focusing on because it feels like it's helpful. There's a maybe placebo, but that's why we have so many pieces of content that I literally just say you can't have there's no such thing as a quick fix. Everything takes time, things take as long as it needs, and some people just need to learn their lesson through injury and all these things, but being able to have that at least open up that conversation that's saying you can't, there's no such thing as a quick fix. If you want an actual longevity fix, you have to actually attack it from a way where you're thinking long term, so it's more of those pieces of advice versus trying to give somebody that they can uh you know get results quickly, you know.

SPEAKER_02 32:18

I know it's not directed directly at me, and I'm sure everybody listening feels the same thing. It's like I'm so attacked, you know, because so many of us just push through. I would say as a mom just pushing through, as a woman just pushed through, as a runner, as a someone on the mat, something will happen, and you're like, well, just tape it up, it's fine, or throw a brace on it, or whatever. And it's like certain, like diet nutrition. It doesn't have to be sexy and flashy. We don't need all of the fancy kitchen gadgets. It's like whole foods, eat some protein, please get fiber and drink water. Like, there's like some very, very basics. If you want to add in some like Dubai chocolate sprinkles here and there, go for it. But you don't need to spend that much money, you don't need it to be in the fancy Tupperware. You just gotta do it for a long time and not expect change overnight.

SPEAKER_01 33:13

Mm-hmm. That's literally the same thing when it comes to rehab. And I think people um social media has created an incredibly interesting landscape for content because nowadays the way that you get clicks is you say things that are either inflammatory or you try to be flashy with exercises and one thing to fix your back pain, one thing it's like promises that you can't really uphold. Now, I understand I can always come from an angle of understanding why people do that because they want to build a brand or things like that, right? But does that really align with my morals, my integrity of like the message we're trying to bring behind Open Map Physio? It doesn't, right? So I think what it comes down to is being able to create content and make it something where it's relatable, but when people come to us for rehab, they always go, Oh man, like this is pretty basic stuff. And I say, Yeah, we don't do anything that's crazy, nothing is crazy. What it really comes down to when we do our assessments and build our programs for our clients, it comes down to being able to identify the things that are really holding them back, whether that is a structural thing, whether that's a muscular thing, or even more important, a lifestyle thing or a mindset thing. These are things that if we can identify very early on, it gives us a place to start. Now, sometimes we're tackling multiple things at one time. Maybe their mindset is, I just didn't know my body was capable of this. Okay, well, we proved to them in the first session that they're able to do more than what they're they think they're able to do. And that gives them confidence. Now, confidence trickles into being more willing to do more exercise, you know? And then on top of that, maybe we find that their shoulder is just really weak in certain positions. Well, you need a strong shoulder to get back to jujitsu. Cool, let's work on it. That's something that feels tangible to them. A lifestyle thing. Okay, well, let's manage your volume intensity of your training and maybe implement one strategy to sleep better. Okay, cool. We'll tackle all those three things that don't feel overwhelming, that feel like you can make the change right now. And if you really zoom out and look at these things, they're not rocket science. It's just all the things that are available on the internet, all the things that you probably hear all the time on social media, even the doctors are talking about them, but they're hard to implement unless you know what your entry point is, which is commonly the hardest part. We our our main job in the beginning is just to find an entry point. There is a big spectrum of rehab and performance. If we can figure out the direction or or what where to put you as an entry point, then it it makes it easier for us to create a plan. Most people have no idea where they are, that's why they're in like this gray zone of like lost, because they don't know where to start. And so we prov provide that starting point and then the guidance that makes it feel a little bit less uh um confusing and then eventually get them back to training. So nothing we do is is fancy or flashy or anything like that. It all looks like the same stuff every single time you look at people, but it's the nuances of managing everything else that allow for out the outcomes that we get.

SPEAKER_02 36:46

I would imagine even someone that knows so much about the body, even someone that knows it, it could also be challenging to stick with it. And If it should be like, you know what I mean? Like as a teacher, I know I should do these things because it would make me better, it can help them teach learn better, but some days I just don't want to do it. And so I can imagine that mindset, but I could also see almost like most of the general population doesn't have your headset, the whole thing, and then also not knowing where to start and seeing the value and not knowing why the value and also the projection of longevity that this could create. And so what a great service you have to help somebody say, I know it sounds basic, but here's the results that can come from it, and it's not crazy, and you can do it, and here let me help you. That must it must be so gratifying for you, but also for those clients who are like, oh my gosh, a couple extra squats and my leg doesn't hit hurt anymore, or whatever the case is.

SPEAKER_01 37:45

For sure. I think you bring up a great point that we're all human at the end of the day, and I don't expect people to be perfect. Sometimes it's it's like kind of weird to me because sometimes my clients will be like, I'm so sorry I missed a workout this week. I said, That's okay. Like, you you don't have to apologize. You never have to apologize to me. To like, oh my god, I'm gonna get yelled at if I don't do five days a week of the PT or something. Like, and they have they send me all these things, like trying not to let me down. But I always have to communicate that, hey, my job is to help you get to where we need to be. Sometimes I will over-index on giving you more exercises because I know that you have a busy life and that if you can fit these in, that's great. But that's why in the beginning, now, like I've I've I've learned that setting expectations. I'm gonna program five days a week for you. But if you can't do five, three is better than nothing. And so I'll take the pressure off and say, oh, okay, cool. Like I don't have to do five out five days out of the week. But I also understand, like people have lives, things happen, people get sick. Like, I'm not, I'm never going to make someone feel bad if they're going through something and they're able unable to stay on track. Now, my job is to understand that that happens and to help you get back on track or to help you navigate these things because we all know that rehab injury management is very sometimes feels lonely and sometimes feels like like mentally stressful. So if you have somebody like myself that's sending you messages saying you could do it, like we could totally do it. Like even those small messages make a really big difference because it's encouraging. And um, when we when the the big thing that I noticed recently is like when I work with clients who have been in chronic pain, it's hard for them to see their progress themselves because they're with themselves all the time. Now, if I see you once a month virtually or in person, I can see a dramatic change, but I can see it from an objective lens, not a subjective or emotional lens. So when you are in front of me and your leg is able to move further than it did last month, or you're able to handle more stress than you did last month, I'm obviously gonna call it out. Like, oh my god, that looks so much better than last time. And they'll be like, oh my god, are you sure? Like, I don't notice it myself. But these comments and having somebody who can not only guide you through the process, but show you the progress and encourage you through the process. I think that is the combination that we have been able to create that allows people to feel okay, encouraged through the entire process, even during the inevitable lows, which flare-ups happen, things happen, and it it's very common because we get back to training. Maybe they train a little too hard, they have a flare-up in their head. Okay, how do we navigate that? That is the actual definition of resilience, which is being able to encounter hard things and bounce back quickly. The longer you stay off the path, the harder it is to get back on. So we try to provide an environment where we can say, Hey, it's okay. Like, that's like normal. Some people feel like I've gone all the way back to square one. I said, No, you've built this entire foundation, maybe you've taken one step back. Okay, cool. Let's take that two steps forward. And it's just like a very encouraging thing of, okay, you believe in me. I believe in me. Okay, cool. Let's let's figure this out.

SPEAKER_02 41:07

So it came up the other day, and my listeners will now hear it twice, but it's that important. When uh I said to a friend the other day, I believe in you. And when that came out, it meant not just I believe in you, I believe you're capable of it. So sometimes I lose that faith in myself and knowing that I can. I think maybe I don't know if it's a me, it's an Emily thing, it's a woman thing, but growing up such a in a people-pleasing environment, if I got the gold star and someone patted me on the head, I did a good job. And I wasn't quite sure if I got if I didn't get the pat or whatever. And to help, so yes, you're helping fix someone's body, and it's like sometimes that's the head thinking, that's like the robot in me. It's like structural, I can get behind it, but like the heart and humanity piece, I don't have to make per perfect choices all the time. I can still make progress. Sometimes, if like in the past, I had on the schedule to run seven miles. I'm like, oh, but I only have time for five. I'm not even gonna do it because I can't hit the whole goal. Who did that help? It didn't help me. I would have still I would have made an effort and still in the right direction. It didn't have to be perfect. And by telling your clients, it's okay, and it's neither good nor mad that it's just where you are and being able to coach them through that. I think you're helping give opportunities for resilience in a very structured and guided setting. And frankly, regardless of jujitsu or humanity, we all kind of need that. It's okay because there's no judgment attached to it. You can decide if you're consistently hitting 20% of what you should be doing, your results will reflect that. That's neither good nor bad. That's just the path you're taking taking. But if you evaluate enough that you're going to put more effort in, you're going to see that. But at the same time, burning yourself out 120 all the time is not going to get you very far either. You need to find that balance between it all.

SPEAKER_01 43:04

Yeah, longevity, longevity and having uh the ability to, well, this just reminded me. Now I have like an intrusive thought. It's not an intrusive thought, but it's just like a tangent in my brain that um Chris Howder always said in the jujitsu world that it's not the best, it's not who's the best, it's who's who lasts in the world of jujitsu, right? So who can stay around long enough for them to be able to develop the skills and all that kind of stuff. I kind of think of it that way in terms of business, in terms of like our lives, is it's not you don't have to be the best all the time. You don't have to be the best anytime, but as long as you try and you put in effort, something is better than nothing, and you're gonna stack those those reps, and the reps are gonna eventually turn into an outcome, and you can be proud that you can at least do that. And another thing we tell our clients all the time is the rule of thirds. I I really like this for like a lot. Life philosophy, but rule of thirds as in a third of the time you're probably gonna have great days. A third of the time, you're probably gonna have bad days, and in a third of the time, you're probably gonna have meh days. So 60%, 66.6% of the time, you're probably gonna have days that are like imperfect or suboptimal. Now, are you going to take 66% of the time and say I'm just not gonna do the thing? Probably not. You're gonna still try. Now, on the great days, you can capitalize on that, but the rest of the time, you can still capitalize as much as you possibly can. And even if you need rest, you know there's like so many nuanced takes of like if some days you need rest, you just have to do it. These are all things that are gonna get you closer and closer to your goal. But it's more of being able to stack the reps little by little, and ultimately that's gonna be what gets you to where you need to be.

SPEAKER_02 44:51

That feels very honest, and what's the word I'm looking for? Not safe, but sometimes we expect I should feel great all the time because I live this great life and I have so many things going for me that if I'm not feeling great, this must be an off day. But sometimes you just don't realize how often you kind of use it as an excuse. So I think knowing it's not going to be easy all the time is freeing, and knowing that on those days showing up, there's always going to be something good that comes from it. I read something the other day that we've all had like the worst year of our life, whatever that could be, or like a really rough year, those years still had some beautiful sunsets, those years still had a couple really great meals, those years had some laughing with friends. It wasn't completely bad. On the days where I really, really, really don't want to do a workout, just showing up and doing part of it is a success within itself because I knew it was worth it. And there are days when it just gets so late, I keep putting it off. Tomorrow I'm gonna fight another day, I'm gonna come back stronger, and that's okay as well.

SPEAKER_01 45:58

Yeah. All of it. It's a human experience. I think sometimes we see on social media such an idealized painted picture of maybe these influencers or people who are online who try to say that you have to grind every single day and blah blah, if you're not feeling 100%, then something's wrong with you. But social media is not reality, and uh that's what I've definitely learned is like so much of Instagram and TikTok and all that kind of stuff is just a highlight reel. And if you can just focus on yourself, focus on the things that are important, understand the philosophies that have been around for centuries, and know that the human experience means that you are going to experience days that suck, days that are great, days that are kind of neutral, like you're able to navigate. I think I I also read something recently that talks about like um, I think it's called emotional flexibility. So just being in a situation where you may feel a certain type of way, but you're flexible with being able to act at least towards the type of person you want to become versus being so engulfed in that emotion and shutting down. So when you have that emotional flexibility, it doesn't matter what conflict or what thing that happens in your life every single day, you have the ability to bounce back and forth and be able to not to bend but not break. And I think that is a very important skill to develop in the world of jujitsu, but also in life and also during um trying to rehab from an injury is if you have that emotional flexibility. I try to like practice this with clients as well, is like emotional flexibility. You're not gonna feel like um you're making progress sometimes, but from my end, I can see that you are. So let's kind of use that win for us to get closer and closer instead of feeling like I'm shutting down and quitting. I'm not doing this again, you know.

SPEAKER_02 47:47

I think something that has been interesting because we all have injuries, regardless of however our lives are, it could be genetic predisposition or whatever, whatever. And a curious thing about jujitsu is that that can sometimes take shape your training as well. Like I've had a problem with like the big toe on my left foot, and we do so much bracing and spreading and like using toes are really important, jujitsu. Like, I who knew, but because that's an area of weakness, I it's changed my game. And like how I'm gonna drop to my knees earlier, I'm gonna move my body, I'm gonna pull my leg through or whatever. And I talked to women that have trained through pregnancy, and their partners or whoever they've been working with have had to change their game because they can't put like me on belly, for example. Just because something's not working at the optimal level, you're not down and out. There's so many opportunities to try something different. Maybe your guard game is going to change. Maybe you're going to you work a more defensive game. Maybe this is your time to shine a Nogi or Ghee, or you're gonna switch it up. But there it doesn't mean the end of the world. That's the flexibility. Oh, a big idea.

SPEAKER_01 48:55

I love it. It's so good. I love talking about all these things, but it's like there's so many layers to it, there's so many nuances to it. You can it what context is what really matters, right? But then being able to have the overarching principle. That's how we apply things to our practice and to my jujitsu and all that is the overarching principle. What is the overarching principle? How can I apply it to this specific scenario? Because the reality is everyone's different, everyone's injuries are different, everyone's bodies responds differently. But how can we have three overarching principles that are gonna guide us the entire time where we don't feel like, oh my god, I'm frantic and I'm lost, right? Instead, it's okay, well, if that's the case, let's see which one applies the most. Okay, if that's the one, okay, we use it. And then we kind of get back on track. Don't get don't get crazy, get back on track, you know.

SPEAKER_02 49:46

I was trying to think of a name for the episode because it's always there's some, there's a reason for every conversation. And at first I was thinking it'd be kidding, it'd be like, I'm hurt doc, or I don't want to be hurt doc. Like, like as both options, but it's like kind of how to live for the long game. I don't know anybody that's gone into jujitsu that's like, I'm gonna master this in two years. Like you, I I talk to brown belts, they're it's like they're 11 years in, and they still acknowledge here they are in their journey, but they have so much farther to go. And I think jujitsu is a longevity, it can carry you through so much of your life in different ways, and your game will change depending on all of those different adventures. And so I love the idea that the advice is planning for the now, but planning for the future. I always think what is future Emily going to be really happy that I did. And if it can sometimes it will take just a couple minutes now is dividends later. 100%. Yeah. And I also have to be very aware of how I prioritize my time. Um my friend Clay the other day was talking about how we live in a yummy culture now. Like all coffee and all coffees are like drippy, sweet, salted, pistache, everything, and everything is like decadent. And understanding that if we save that decadence for really special occasions, it can it can taste sweeter. And so, same with life. So do I not have time to do the shoulder activities, or am I just choosing to spend it in things that are giving me the dopamine hit now or disassociating now? And if that is the case, what else do I need to look at my life to benefit me in the long run? And and am I willing to make those changes?

SPEAKER_01 51:43

Yeah, that's the self-awareness piece, you know, that comes into it is uh that's a yummy culture, that's such a funny way to say it. But I do think everyone's looking for that quick spike of uh what can give me the the most pleasure, whatever, right now, versus what is gonna benefit me in the future. And that's why I think one of the reasons why there's so many people in jiu-jitsu who get injured and they just brush it off and they just keep pushing through because they don't want to stop for many reasons. Maybe they don't want to feel behind, they don't want to feel like they're weak, or they don't want to do these things versus somebody who acknowledges. And I know I think you brought it up like way earlier in the episode, but it takes a lot to stop and say, Hey, I think I probably need help. So when clients come to us, I definitely acknowledge that. I'm like, it takes a lot of effort to stop and say, I can't do this by myself, and I need somebody to help me. So that's why I'm so grateful. Every single person that comes to us and says, Hey, we need your help, and I trust that you're gonna help me and bring me closer to where I'm, I always say, like, thank you so much for your trust because it takes a lot. It's your body, it's vulnerable. You know, everything comes down to that. So if we can start to like bring that back to, okay, the boring things are what are gonna make the biggest difference. I know it's boring. And I always say, I know it's boring, I know it feels like you're not doing much, but trust me, after doing this, after being a PT for 10 years, like these are the things that I've noticed that makes the biggest results. And once you turn the corner and we're able to get you back to training and have like a seamless transition, you're gonna be thankful that you did all those things before. I love it.

SPEAKER_02 53:26

If I was you're talking about the things that we just need to do, and you've talked about some really big overarching ideas in this conversation, which time has flown. It's already been almost an hour, which is wild to me. And I I always tell everyone, I always send a list of questions prior. I had questions that were like most common injuries and what can people do to rehab or different stretch stretches. I was looking at them as we were talking, and I love the big life lesson-the ideas that are gonna make us better humans because following you on Instagram, you have covered so many of these questions. I know I've seen ones where you're going over like the three things, three things you can do to protect your training partner, or like really scary things, don't ever do those on the mat because you're gonna pull someone's leg off the hinges. Whatever. So the nice well, there is again. There are times when I'm looking at someone's leg and I'm like, they're okay, right? And you're like, oh, they're fine. Just checking. So because you had such a great presence with, I love your clips, I love the meat and potatoes that you give and the information. How do people find you and what does it look like? Because I think yes, meeting with people is so good, and you're really creating a really strong community. And I like that you're such a direct talker. You're not going to like fluff it around with the yummy because there are some really important life skills that you're trying to put out there.

SPEAKER_01 54:57

Yeah, uh, you can find us on social media everywhere, Open Map Physio. If you guys DM us, we answer every single DM. It's usually me in the in the uh in the Instagram, chronically online, talking to people. I think it's very important, you know, with social media is a whole different conversation as well, just because it's such a great way to, if used properly, it's a really great way to beat a lot of people. But, you know, unfortunately, there's like the dark sides of it. But we've found for sure that we've been able to at least cultivate uh a voice that has really helped a lot of people understand PT from a lens that is a little bit different than what they're traditionally used to, which is in a clinic or like all these medical myths, which is also why we do seminars. Seminars give us an opportunity to go even deeper on some of these topics, and then also our podcast that we have too, we go even deeper on some of these topics and trying to create more long-form content because in a world where we are always seeking that three-second, five-second clip, I think there are a lot of people that are craving more nuanced conversations, more specific and detailed discussions around these big life philosophy lessons. And I've always been this type of person that I just really am intrigued by the human brain. I think it's just so fascinating. I think there's so many things that can be picked apart of how that can affect somebody. And I think that's really helped me as a PT to just have a lot of compassion and empathy for people, see people for where they are, and then be able to hone my skills as a PT in the more uh traditional programming and all that way, and then merge them together to help. But yeah, you can find us everyone, OpenMap Physio, contact us, let us know. It's all good.

SPEAKER_02 56:44

And you said, okay, so we're in Southern California. So you tend to work with clients via Zoom in person. Do you have how does that look like and what you you've given such great information? How can people contact you? Like, like I said, is it easier person online?

SPEAKER_01 57:01

Yeah, so for anybody that's local to LA, we're gonna have an in-person option soon because my coach is gonna be opening up a gym in Monterey Park. So anybody who wants to come visit, come check it out, come chat, maybe even you know, work with us, that'd be awesome. We'll be in uh um Monterey Park very soon. So you can follow us on Instagram and see like all those announcements. But if you're not and for further away and you still want to work with us, we've been doing virtual PT for the last three-ish years now. So I think that's also a very uh unique part of what we do is we can get outcomes without putting your hand putting my hands on somebody. And that ultimately comes down to everything that we talked about prior. So symptom management, movement assessments, programming, and then managing everything during the programming part.

SPEAKER_02 57:45

What's your ultimate goal for your clients? What would be the or of like the jujitsu community? What does everyone need?

SPEAKER_01 57:54

I love this because I think this my mind immediately goes to what the success looked like for our clients. And success, what success looks like for my clients is that they won't need me anymore. Is that I've been able to teach them everything that they need to know during the time together and given them all the tools, given them everything that they can put in their back pocket, that when something comes up, they can pull it out of their back pocket and say, I remember doing this a couple years ago, I remember talking about this, I don't have to freak out, this is just a little flare-up, you know, things like that, that they're able to manage their injuries and have their own journey of longevity on their own without me, right? Of course, I tell all of our clients, like, hey, I would love to see you at an open mat, we can train, things like that. But ideally, if I have succeeded, then you don't need me anymore after we're done. And I think that's the ultimate goal for that I would like to have for the people that we work with. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_02 58:54

And how lucky to have those skills and to be coached through them. Because I think a lot of times people are like, Oh, my groin muscle hurts, which there are like 75 of those. I'm just gonna Google how do you make your groin muscle stop hurting? And then it's gonna be like, Well, did you mean when you're riding your bike or this, and then you just find like a random YouTube something, and they're like, just flap your leg like this, and then you try it, and then you cause more problem. So I like the idea of you know what I mean? There's some weird stuff online, and then you add chat in there, and they're like, We surely can fix you, Steve, and then they call you by name, so then it feels like they really do know you, but they don't. So it's nice to have even those basic steps to get somebody like give them a little bit of liftoff so they can be successful.

SPEAKER_01 59:44

The objective of everything that we do is to train to be able to treat the person holistically, and that's covering everything. Uh um a teacher, one of my professors from um from PT school once said that physical therapy is the art of managing personalities. I think that's true in a lot of ways. There's so many different people that have so much, so many different backgrounds and a lot of uh other things that they've dealt with, the history of life. So for us to be flexible, we have to learn how to manage personalities, manage all of these things on top of managing their injury in a way that's biomechanical, structural, and all that. So it's so fun. Like I've I feel very grateful to be in my position. I feel very grateful to have taken the chance many years ago, and also just so grateful that I have an opportunity to make an impact in the jiu-jitsu world in the way that everyone has allowed me to. So I will continue to do this until I can't.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:45

I love that. That sounds like we could have that as just our jujitsu tag. I will do this until I can.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:51

Literally, literally.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:52

Yeah. And maybe by the podcast too. I feel the same way. Getting a chance to hear all the stories. I think if I take all of our guests, we just like threw them all on an open mat together. It would be so fun. But truly, every open mat has like all of those same, same same personalities or gyms, or meetups, or seminars. You know, we all have some really great stories, and it's been fun. Thank you so much for coming on, Diana. It's been nice to like pick your brain. I love observing people and figuring out why they do what they do. And so there is similarity there.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:25

Yeah. Thank you so much for inviting me on. It was such so nice to meet you at the uh the seminar and then now being able to chat with you more in like a long-form content way. That's it's been great.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:36

Well, thank you, Diane, again. It was just so much fun talking to you today. Thank you, Emily. My shout-out this week goes to my meh days. Talking about the rules of thirds, only a third of my days are going to be optimal, or maybe not even optimal, but really great. Those meh days have the potential to be fantastic, but they also have potential to be like the worst. And so I love the opportunities to present with them, and I look for more meh days because I find oftentimes on the mat, those are the days when the most magic happens because I'm just not expecting it. A huge thank you to Diana. She brought such an understanding and knowledge to the podcast. She's one of those people that you can tell how much she cares about what she does because she has such a depth of understanding of the concepts. Getting a chance to see her in person, I knew immediately that I needed to have her on the podcast. I hope you have a chance to follow her, connect with her. She's just such an awesome human. And until next time, I hope you stay happy, healthy, injury free, and I'll see you at the next pajama party.