EPP: Meet Erin (The Brutal Viking With Grit and Follow Through)

I love that every interview is its own journey. Sitting down with Erin I expected her to share about her path to black belt. I quickly learned that her belief in herself to accomplish audaciously big goals is her superpower that has led her to much success. There is no substitute for time on the mats and she brings so much wisdom to the show. I hope this episode also encourages you to dream big because you are capable of big things.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:15

Hi everyone, welcome to Emily's Fajana Party. My name is Emily and I'm so glad you're here. Whether you're a returning listener or a newbie, it's fantastic that you found the party. My hope is that all that want to try Brazilian jujitsu get a chance. If you're already into sport, that's awesome, and I hope that you can glean some things from my funny little facts along the way or from my inspiring guests. So let's sit down, settle in, and get cozy and hear what happens on this episode. This week, while looking at different ways that I can get better jujitsu, I found it really important knowing the goal of every position. And I know that sounds silly because obviously there are dominant ones and ones you need to get out of, blah blah blah blah. But if you don't know what you're trying to accomplish, you're just moving. I think it can be really easy to say, like get in De La Hiva or get in Lasso or Spider, but knowing why it's important sounds silly. Like I shouldn't we all? But sometimes I get so busy I just don't think about it. When you're in close guard, you're you want to break their posture. In side control, you're trying to isolate near side arm, mount, climb high, isolate arms back. You want to control the hips first, choke second. Formidable people are intentional. Sometimes I like to fake my way through life and just say, Oh, I'm intuitive. I'm intuitive. I'm moving the way I'm supposed to through life. But that's not very, I don't want to say calculated, it's not organized. And then when good things happen, it's just by luck. I want my jujitsu game to be stronger than luck. I want it to be intentional. I'm so excited to introduce you to our guest today. Her name is Erin. She goes by Brutal Viking on Instagram. If you find her all over the place, I had met her at a seminar and we had a chance to talk a little bit, but we really didn't talk about our game so much. She was grappling with other gals, I was all over the place, and so that chance encounter a few months ago set us up for an interview today. And I'm so excited I got a chance to talk with her. Everyone has a story, everyone has a mindset, and I love the diversity of all of the guests. Erin will show you her laser-focused type A intensity that is so inspiring to see on the mat. Without further ado, meet Erin. Erin, thank you so much for joining on the podcast. We're so happy you're here. So, Erin, if people didn't know you prior or life outside of jujitsu, how do you describe yourself?

SPEAKER_01 2:59

I'm a very type A person and a little kooky. Like I got my hair cut today, and uh the hairstylist was like, relax. And I'm like, telling me to relax is like telling water not to be wet. Like, I don't, I'm a very intense person. So if you know me well, you can see more of the goofy side of me, but um, I'm usually uh very intense, and I think I scare a lot of people off sometimes.

SPEAKER_00 3:28

It's like when you go to do a massage and you're laying there, like every single muscle is tightened, and they're just like think of something relaxed, and you're like, I don't even know how to do that. I'm like, what does that mean? So that ends first of all, I love a good, like, kooky, quirky person. I think we come with the best stories when we think out of the box and we just kind of bring a pizzazz. There's this children's book called Tacky the Penguin, and I always think about just like what color we bring to the world by being our authentic selves. So I'm here for it. I'm here for the kookie. Type A would be really interesting in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. How did that happen? So, how did I get started in in jiu-jitsu?

SPEAKER_01 4:12

Yeah, I love the story. I actually did not even know what jiu-jitsu was. It was my husband who had always wanted to try it, but just never did. And we were doing kickboxing at a UFC gym, and he was like, Oh, they're doing Brazilian jujitsu over there, and he points to the mats. He's like, I've always wanted to try that. And I'm like, How long have I known you? I've never heard you say these words before. I don't even know what that is. There's a bunch of like sweaty dudes rolling around on the mats. I'm like, hard no. And so I did. And funny enough, he loved it and I hated it like from the get-go. Like my after the first class, I was like, nope, yeah, my initial instinct was right. This is not for me. Going back to kickboxing. But he loved it and he kept kind of doing it. And we were we were training to try to do something like productive together. And so I remember it was actually causing like some marital fights because I was like, we are supposed to be doing this together. I told you I don't like jujitsu. Stop forcing me to do this. And uh anyway, ultimately, I don't know if it's Stockholm Syndrome or something, something uh got me like obsessed. I actually think what it was was like I really knew nothing about jujitsu. I didn't know anything about the belt system, I didn't know about like getting stripes, I didn't know about competition, I knew nothing. And I stuck I stuck around long enough to get my first stripe. And when I got that first stripe, that I think that was when it was like all over. I was like, oh, I like this. Like, I want to get that black belt. Very goal-oriented, and if I was like, there's a reward system, I'm all there for it.

SPEAKER_00 6:01

I love that you're like, Ghee, no, rolling around with men, absolutely not. Sweat, yuck, I don't like this, but wait, there's rewards, there's little little stickers and prizes. Sign me up for a black belt that's gonna take me a decade or however long.

SPEAKER_01 6:18

Exactly. I mean, it's crazy, but it's true. I once I learned that like we could compete in this, and then like the whole like how I felt getting the stripe, I was like, this is great. And I never want to do anything else but jujitsu.

SPEAKER_00 6:33

It's so interesting in life because there's certain things I just want to learn for the sheer joy of learning. I think the capacity to try something outside of my wheelhouse, overcoming challenge, wonderful. And then I also have team competitions at work where we get like there's a group of us, we had to be separated, we're not allowed to be on the same team anymore because we're fiercely competitive. And I don't need a prize, I need someone just to tell me that I won. That's all I need. I need someone to tell me I'm the best and I will like tear through the school in a pair of like teacher converse and like an apron, you know, just give me the prize and I'm happy. So I'm glad you found your motivation to get you started, but also knowing that one strike took you all the way to Black Belt, you had to do some serious work to get there. So that's exciting.

SPEAKER_01 7:24

I mean, it's a good thing I got obsessed with it because uh there really is no substitution for mat time, and I just compounded a ton of mat time in a really short period of time because, especially in the beginning, I was trained like every class available, I was there. I would, if they had back-to-back classes, I would do them back to back. I was lit, I was literally obsessed. So I was training, you know, at one point, I think I calculated it out, and it was almost like a part-time job. I was training like six days a week and you know, close to 20 hours a week. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:02

I can just like imagine your co-workers. You like one day you're talking about, I don't know, the weather or your latest hobby that you started with your husband, and now you're like, oh, there's things with jujitsu. It's my most favorite thing ever, and I spent all my time, and it's going to be my singular focus for the next rest of my life.

SPEAKER_01 8:20

It's it's funny. Um, at work, I I didn't tell many people that I was doing jujitsu, but I think it was maybe close to about a year in. Oh, well, also I started losing a lot of weight. It was probably about a year in where people are like, something's different about you. Like, what are you doing? And I also was, you know, again, my type A intense personality. Like I had no outlet really before jujitsu. And so I think a lot of that came out at work. And then jujitsu, I think, in a way calmed me down a lot. And so people are like, What's what's going on with you? You're different. I like working with you now. And I was like, Thanks. But I mean, it's it was real, like jujitsu really changed my life in a lot of ways on and off the mats.

SPEAKER_00 9:08

And I think we hear it's hard when you're in a mental, like in the head space of like life is really hard right now, and someone says, just like, just go for a walk, or just go punch a bag, and you're going to feel so much better. And you're like, really, really, can a little bit of sunshine make that much of a difference? And then you get into like jujitsu because there's a mental part of learning something new, but just the sheer physical exhaustion every time you step off the mat really does something for me. And it just calms me down in a way that I don't know many other things that do.

SPEAKER_01 9:43

The learning a skill set like makes it easier to stick with it because if I was just going to the gym and running on a treadmill, like I would get so bored and I would stop doing it almost as quickly as I started. And so jujitsu learning a skill set and being able to see progress and to, you know, I don't know, it's just it's like it keeps it exciting, right? In terms of like doing physical exercise. Um, so I've really enjoyed that aspect of it as well.

SPEAKER_00 10:14

I found recently in my training that you kind of go through, like I go through plateaus where I just feel like my wheels are spinning, but nothing is catching. And then all of a sudden it can just be like a regular day. And I go to one class and it feels like spin, spin, spin, and then they catch. Like the cog finally catches and unlocks like a different skill. And you're like, oh, the game just got fun again. It was really frustrating for even months. And then you're like, I have now figured out the next step. And then soon you're you'll in a couple months I'll be spinning, spinning, spinning the end, and then the next thing will unlock. And sometimes they unlock like two weeks in a row, and it's like, oh my gosh, so much new fun Debbie had.

SPEAKER_01 10:57

Yeah, yeah. I think like for me, I in the beginning, it was such a big learning curve, and I was training so much, and so like constantly new just new things were coming into my repertoire, right? But I've noticed like as I've gotten it to higher belts, it's and especially because I'm such a competitor too, I I train for competition. I have such a tight game, and I've I've what am I trying to say? As I've gotten to a higher belt, I'm actually finding it very challenging to expand my game because even when I'm in training and I'm trying to do a different move, a move I'm I don't normally do, it's just like I play a lot of half guard and like all roads lead to half guard. Even when I'm trying to actively not play half guard, I in training wherever I just end up there and I'm like, no, I'm trying to do something different. And so I feel like it's it's gotten harder as I've gotten, you know, more into it to like expand my game and have those clicks, but it doesn't deter me. I still I still enjoy it nonetheless. So, how long did it take you to get your black belt?

SPEAKER_00 12:09

Um, I think it was a little over seven and a half years. That's awesome. But truly, time on the mat. If some people are training two, three, four days a week, you know, same for hours, like two, three, four hours a week, that's one thing. But when you are dedicated almost your secondary occupation to the pursuit of this, that would make sense. Yeah. Wow, yeah. Congratulations, that is quite an accomplishment.

SPEAKER_01 12:34

Thank you. I, you know, I have a knack for making goals that aren't always within my control. And the goal I made in regards to jujitsu was because I started jujitsu when I was 32, and I was like, I'm gonna get my black belt before I turn 40. Which of course I have some control over, but not really. It's really up to the professor. Um, but I was just like, I'm gonna train as much as possible and compete as much as possible and do everything I can to try to make this happen quickly. But I remember when we moved from the UFC gym to the gym I train at now, which is like a very um high-level like competitive academy, everyone was like, Oh, he promotes so slow, like it's gonna take you know 12 years to get your black belt. And I'm like, I was like, Well, I'm still gonna try. And so I still kept like I kept the same course and I was like, I'm gonna do this. And then ironically, I I honestly didn't think I was gonna meet my goal, but a week before my 40th birthday, he gave me my black belt. Wow. So that was pretty cool. Yeah, and I don't think it is a really that goal I had.

SPEAKER_00 13:50

It's interesting to me because when sometimes when people set goals like bar before 40th, they kind of just like move along at the same pace. It's kind of like when I'm running late, but I have to take a shower, but I don't speed up what I'm doing in said shower to make time go by faster. And then I end up like late because I got in late, you know what I mean? Like everything kind of falls. But if I have a goal, but then I change my outlook to make it happen, like you're putting in the work and it's I don't want to say you're not peer pressuring yourself, but you're holding yourself accountable to something larger, and that's pretty commendable to work to something. You're like, I know this is outside of what people typically do. I understand that this is a big ask, but I'm gonna do everything in my power to get it.

SPEAKER_02 14:41

That's really awesome.

SPEAKER_01 14:43

Yeah, and I it was honestly, it was that crazy goal. And like I said, I'm so goal-oriented that once I have the goal, it's like hard to deter me from it. But like I was actually off the mats, I was like inconsistently training at best for almost a year and a half during my brown belt because I had a pretty bad back injury that I like was having a really hard time coming out of. But it was that crazy goal of wanting my black belt before 40 that I was like, I need to figure this injury out and I need to get back on the mats, like, because otherwise, like it's not gonna happen. And there was there were moments there where I wasn't sure if I was gonna ever make it back to the mats, you know, and but it it was definitely in part that crazy goal to get my black belt before 40 that forced me to look at different like healing paths and whatnot to get myself back.

SPEAKER_00 15:39

So, would you say one of the questions here is most people talk about like the challenges to get the black belt? And sometimes it's time or commitment, or sometimes gyms close, or we move, or the demands of our family, work, whatever gets in the way. Did you find that there were challenges? You talked about the back injury. Were there anything else that kind of came up as hurdles that you had to navigate, or was it pretty smooth sailing once you like iron like laser focused on it?

SPEAKER_01 16:09

It I wouldn't say it was smooth sailing. There was definitely some uh roller coaster rides along the way. One that I actually don't talk about it too much, but when I started jujitsu, part of what not only like the belt system and the reward system and the competition, but part of what kind of kept me in invested in it in the beginning was this sense of community, right? Because I'm kind of the black sheep. I don't really fit in quite anywhere. Um, I always have my whole life. And when I started jujitsu, it was this weird like sense of community, and I felt like it was just, you know, a bunch of misfits that fit together. And I felt like I belonged, which was really cool. But I was also training at a very recreational gym, and it was, you know, everyone was very kumbaya. When I went to a competitive gym and I was competing a lot and I was doing very well, I don't I can make assumptions about why that sense of community changed, but I won't. I'll just say that I stopped feeling that sense of community, and there was a lot of like animosity amongst some teammates and a lot of issues, and you know, I don't know. I just I think when you get sometimes a group of women together, they can be clickish or catty or whatever, you know, me too. And I just again got that sense of like not belonging, and so that was rough. That was around my purple belt days, and it it actually got so bad. I I did talk to my professor about potentially like leaving the team to try to find a team where I felt like I fit in better. Unfortunately, like he was very open to the conversation and very supportive, and um he could help me kind of work through it and offered suggestions, and so I stayed and and I'm glad I did. But yeah, that was definitely that was a hard time. And so that was at purple belt, and then that the injury at brown belt where I was like not even sure if I was gonna be able to make it back. It was there were some devastating moments, so it's it's kind of cool to be able to sit here now and like kind of say I made it in a way.

SPEAKER_00 18:18

I hate that you had to go through that, and I like wish I could send like the big hugs because I I haven't talked about it in an episode in a minute, but one of these things they say the opposite of belonging is fitting in. And I find that in my life I felt so similar. Like not that I've been different, I see the world through different eyes, and not everybody shares that same view as I do. And I've had to adjust and chameleon myself in so many different situations. I've really I've gotten to be a pretty good master at shaping myself to make people less uncomfortable. And then when you find like I finally fit in here, this is a place I belong, and then those uh familiar feelings start creeping up again, and you're like, wait a second, this was my safe space and it's not anymore. I I'm impressed that you were able to stay through because that like for me, it brings up so many past feelings, and my first thing is to either change myself or run away. And you had bigger goals that it sounds like kept you there, and I can't change the feelings or opinions of anybody around me, but it's really hard when you have to work so intimately with those around you in this sport.

SPEAKER_01 19:35

Yeah, for sure. I uh it was like it was a very lonely feeling for a while, but then I kind of realized, you know what, I'm not here for them, I'm here for myself, and it did change the way I felt about jujitsu because I before I would move mountains and you know do everything I could to train as much as possible, and then after that, that change, I kind of instead of just obsessively wanting to train because it was like that safe space, that place that I just felt really good at, I really had to start more like actively thinking about how I was training, which I don't think was necessarily a bad thing. I think it was a good thing because especially as I got older too, like the amount of training I was doing was putting a big toll on my body. And so it gave me an opportunity to really like adjust the way I train and and why I was training and how I was training. So I feel like everything happens for a reason.

SPEAKER_00 20:35

Absolutely. And here you are today, and not only with the belt that you can show that you put the work in, but really those experiences I know from my past ones have shaped me to who I am. I'm more empathetic, or I understand that my people pleasing nature is only going to get me so far. And at the end of the day, but they always say, like, name one person please with you. Like one of those things, like at the end of the day, it only matters if I am proud or confident or whatever the case may be. So exactly we will inevitably, as women, find ourselves in those situations, and I hope those that are listening to the story that have ever been in something see Erin as an example of someone that's pushed through and really found a huge success in the sport.

SPEAKER_01 21:25

I think we just have to remember like what our goals are and just unapologetically attack those goals. And if people have a problem with it or don't like how you're doing it, or what like that's that's their issue. It's not yours to take on. So just you know, I always say too like the people who talk poorly about what you're trying to accomplish probably haven't accomplished as much. And so why why listen? You know, why let them

SPEAKER_02 22:00

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 22:00

Pull you down. It's not worth it. Do your own thing. I heard a quote the other day. I'm going to botch it. It was something like it's hard to compete with somebody that's having fun. So if you enjoy, if you're on the mat because you love to be there, you actively want to learn, you're rolling, you're smiling. It's it's really hard to be somebody that's going to be negative and put that down because you're you the joy is so intrinsic and it comes from within.

SPEAKER_01 22:29

I think that's a really important point is doing what you do not to seek approval from others. Do what you do because you want to do it and you want to you want to be there or you have a why. And that that why should have nothing to do with other people. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 22:46

Yeah, and I think our why can change over time. And just I like checking in with myself like every couple months, really in all areas of my life, financially, with work, with friends, relationships, sport, like what's going really well for me right now? What do I want to continue to get better at? And what are some things I'm ready to let go of? And that's okay to change those things. Okay, so when I was looking, I was we met at the seminar, women's seminar in Brea, and then I was we like we started chit-chatting, and then when I shared our Instagram or we did the Passover, and your name is Brutal Viking, and I'm like, I have to know the story behind because that is so tough. And I love it.

SPEAKER_01 23:26

Not as good of a story as you think it would be, but at the UFC gym, they sent out, I've been training jujitsu for like a matter of weeks. I knew nothing. I was a newbie. They sent out an email to membership, and it was like, find out your fighter name. And it was this little survey, and it was like, what type of grappler are you? And like all these questions, and I really didn't understand what they meant. And I was just like picking answers, and brutal viking is what spit out. And as soon as I saw it, I was like, that's amazing. I'm keeping that. And then, like, from that moment on, like, everyone just started it. It really, I guess other people thought it was perfect too, because everyone just started calling me Viking or Brutal Viking. I remember one of my competitors, I think at Purple Belt, she was like, What's your name? I only know you as Brutal Viking. She's like, What's your real name? And I'm like, you can just call me Viking, and she's like, No, I want to know your real name. And I was like, Okay, it's Aaron. Like, yeah, I I actually um I think it was at Blue Belt. Someone recognized me out in the wild. I was at a Starbucks, and I'm like, it's early in the morning. I haven't had my coffee yet. And I'm walking through the parking lot, I just hear bigging. And I was like, what the hell? And yeah, it was someone who trained jujitsu in the area, and they were like, Oh my gosh, it's Bruno Viking. So caught off guard because I was like, How do how do you know who I am? It was funny.

SPEAKER_00 24:57

I love the story. It's like from I love how silly they can be. Like sometimes it's like an online quiz where it's like, what's your wolf name or what's your elf name? And some of them are just so silly, and I'm so like brutal Viking sounds tough and it works. It's something that you know. I love that you're like, Oh, you can just call me Viking, it's fine.

SPEAKER_01 25:19

Fine. Honestly, when I moved to the academy I'm at right now, my professor called me, well, he said Viking, Viking because of his accent, for probably about six months, and I I've found that I don't think he actually knew my real name. It's the first time he called me by my real name.

SPEAKER_00 25:37

I was like, I've made it, he knows who I am. It's uh it's so funny too. Like when someone calls you, like, I don't have many people in my life that call me Emily. And so when someone does like You're like, what? It catches me off guard. I know. I'm like, this sounds so weird. I just don't get my name called very often.

SPEAKER_01 25:56

Same. Even at work, like people call me EQ. EQ is my other like I mean, it's just my initials, but my other nickname. I rarely get called by my first name.

SPEAKER_00 26:07

My little fun thing that I like to do with like close friends is if I hear like a very strange phrase or whatever, I'm like, that's my next band name that I'm gonna come up with. So there was one we were in a meeting and we were talking about microaggression. And I'm like, that would be really funny to do. I took that idea of microaggression as like a punk band, but like you have I'm only 5'1, so I'm like not that big. So I'm like, can you imagine like a punk band called microaggression? But then it got better because I teach little people and I said it could be micro regression, so we're all small and we sing punk covers of like nursery rhyme kids songs. It would have been so funny, except like I barely play the banjo, and that's not super punk, but here we are not at all. No, but then I have like these ideas of like the spice girl's heels, like those really big boots, but I have great ideas and they just never go anywhere. Anyway, don't we all? I know, I know. Okay, so the cool part about the mats is that everyone can find their space, and that really I don't want to say body type matters, but really games are shaped by what our strengths are. And how did you how was it recognizing your body type? How did that play a role in how you do jujitsu?

SPEAKER_01 27:32

I'll actually tell you a story from from White Belt, and I think maybe this will be helpful for some other, you know, heavyweight women who are starting jujitsu. I was about six months in, and the professor had taught a move, and it just would not work for me. I'm like, you're crazy. This, this, I can't do this. I don't know why it's not working. And he's like, do the move on me. Let like let me feel like what's happening. And he was like, Oh, I know what the problem is. And I was like, What? What's the problem? He's like, you're not putting your weight on me. And I was like, Well, I don't want to. I don't want to squish you, and uh, I'm gonna keep doing it this way. And he's like, it's not gonna work. He's like, I can handle it, put your weight on me. And I did, and the move worked perfectly. And I was like, oh my god, I had this like light bulb moment, and I again it took me six months to figure this out. That I was like, a lot of moves in jujitsu require you not to basically apologize for your body, you know? And so it was from that moment on that I realized I had to use my weight and and put pressure on people and be okay with that. I think, especially as women were taught our whole life to be dainty and to be light and to, you know, be small, right? And so I was now being asked to utilize everything I have and put my weight on someone, and I was like, oh my god, I don't know if I can do it. Cause I just it was so against everything I'd ever been taught. And I like I did ballet and stuff when I was younger, so like I already have issues with my body size, and uh, but I I grew to really appreciate and love the fact that jujitsu was you know, it was okay, and not only was it okay, but it was an asset to be big and strong, and so I I love that. But back to like finding jujitsu and moves that like work for your body, I really think that any body type and any person can do any move and they can play any game they want to. Yes, it won't look the same as someone with a different body type, or maybe it won't look the same as someone who's less flexible or more flexible, but I do really believe that you can play whatever game you want. You just gotta figure out how to fit it into what your body offers you. So that's also really cool. I think at the lower belts, I felt very, I felt very much so that there is like a little people game and there is a big people game. And like you needed to stick to your your that game. As I've gotten, you know, as I've grown up in jujitsu, I don't believe that anymore. Um, and like for instance, well, first of all, I'm a super heavyweight who pulls guard, so that speaks for itself. But also I'm like very, I'm like very flexible. Like people don't realize how flexible I am. And so like I really like playing Spider Guard and things like that. Um, which is I don't know if that's super typical for a jujitsu player of my size. So I I catch people off guard with it because I don't expect it.

SPEAKER_00 30:49

It's so interesting, like in my head as a rule follower, it's like you're supposed to do the move this way to this way to this way to get this response. I I came from like the karate where like you turn your punch a certain way, your knuckles are shifted a certain way, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And jujitsu, you're like, this is the move, but it might look different for you, but you still get this as long as you get the same outcome. Now you can't do it wildly different. Like, there are going to be fundamental pieces that are going to be what they are, or like Spider-Guard looks a sp more or less a specific way. And so knowing like what are the fundamentals that are trying to be achieved for that move and then doing it. But it took me a while to understand how I play Spider Guard might be nuanced differently than how you do play it, but it still can be, you're right, accessible for everybody. I remember learning um deep half guard from a coach, and he's like a big guy. And then we went to do like a free roll afterwards, and he kept getting into deep half. And it's funny because I'm like child-sized, and he's like, whoop, and he would like get underneath just the same. And so he's like, I can use this on anybody. I am! I was buying shirts today. I said, like it's the yeah, so like if I'm shim in the target section, I can wear kids-sized like shirts and things because well, the kids at work are so messy, like I don't want to worry about getting paint on my clothes, but if I only spend five dollars for a t-shirt, then I don't feel so bad. So yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 32:22

Yeah, like there's a woman I work with that's child size too, and she buys kids' clothes, and I'm like, that's insane.

SPEAKER_00 32:30

Yeah, and then like again, the pros and cons of all of it because there are just certain moves I can't do. And I don't know how many times I've seen the reel where it's like getting out of side control, and the girl does like all these things, and then somebody else just takes that same girl, just throws her.

SPEAKER_01 32:50

I'm like a chocolate ball, just like fling me. I can tell you from rolling with some very small girls, there are ways to get out of a tough side control because it's happened to me, and I'm like, how did you squirm out of that? I don't know. And then you little girls can get elbows and knees into places that I don't expect.

SPEAKER_00 33:11

And then if it's a Nokie, it's just at that point, like everyone's just kind of slipping and sliding, and yeah, yep. It's like a whole new world. So, um, let's say you talked about Spider Guard things. Did you ever try to play a game that didn't fit your body? Or like have you always used it? Well, let me try this again. You say you play a very specific game, you're a big half guard player, and you've been trying to expand. Are you able to get like the nuances, or are you just like really refining what you have? Because I guess I could see benefits of both, like adding to the repertoire, but also I know that these moves, there's always like a better way of doing it, just like reworking it over time.

SPEAKER_01 33:55

Yeah, so I I originally, maybe a couple belts ago, was trying to add like entirely new games. And I quickly realized that's probably not the best path to success. So what I'm trying to do is build on the positions that I naturally end up in. So refining the moves that I do, because there's like about five of them that I do all the time really well. So let's like work on those and do them better, but also like realizing the areas where I get stuck, or you know, even if I do pull off the sweep the way I intend to, like adding on positions from there. Like, where do I land and what you know, and just expanding on the game I already play. I think when I was trying to just incorporate a completely new game, it was it's almost like system overload is overwhelming, and it's like you I don't end up in those positions to implement that game. And so it was kind of, I don't want to say it was time wasted, it's never a waste to learn new things, but I wanted to like see the benefit of the training I was doing quicker, and so to build on what I was already doing, I think was a smarter move.

SPEAKER_00 35:17

It's funny I can think of my life examples. Like for a while there, I was really geared up. I'm like, I should be like a car camper, and I'm like, I know nothing about car camping, so I'm going to get all these things. I was researching it. I started making my own like dehydrated, dehydrated food that I could put like in a baggie that I would add to like a jet boil. And I thought, like, one day I'm going to access all this stuff. And then when I had a realization, am I just sold on the idea of what my life could look like? Like it sounds like it's gonna be this great plan. I could do it right now, but have I once taken my car out for car camping? No. And also, do I have room to store all the things? Is this realistic? I don't, I don't really like the idea of any of these things. It just sounded really cool. But I can imagine, same in jujitsu. Like, I don't think I'm gonna buggy choke anyone ever. So I kind of don't want to waste my time trying to learn how to do it. Everyone goes for the buggy choke, but I don't know anybody that actually gets it.

SPEAKER_01 36:15

Yeah, and this is my thing. I always tell people too, it's like, even if it's a move that you yourself will never implement, it's good to learn it so you know how to defend it. Because it's, you know, just because you won't do it doesn't mean someone won't try to do it to you.

SPEAKER_00 36:32

You know the other day we were working on arm bars and the coach was like, instead of falling straight across to three o'clock, you're more like 1.30. If you're gonna do it, like it's better to clo fall closer to four o'clock, like overextend, because they're if they do the hitchhiker thing, it'll be more, it'll be harder to get out of. But if you fall at 130, they're already halfway out. So it might not be a move that I do often, but then if I find myself landing in that position, like, oh, they're closer to my head, then it's it'll be easier for me to get out of. That's really sage advice to know the counters to it because how to do it well. Yep, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 37:10

I remind myself that I suddenly have to like train day La Heva because I hate Day La Heva, but I'm like, no, it's good. I need to know how these moves function and what they're trying to leverage. And because the more I know about it, even if it's a game I won't play, it will help me in the long run.

SPEAKER_00 37:27

I have such a relationship right now with Day La He. It's a position I find myself in often, but I'm not good at it. So that means that's like my next step. I either need to do a De La Hiva something or something similar, because that's probably gonna be a pathway for me.

SPEAKER_01 37:44

But one of those positions where when I find myself in it, I immediately end up in Hammer.

SPEAKER_00 37:50

I'm just like, oh I just throw all my limbs out, and the coach said, you know, you're not picking anything, you should pick at least something. If it's not your A game, it does not matter. You just need to do something like noted. I like it. Okay, so you said as as you transition from kickboxing to jujitsu, did it change how you move your body, see your body? Do you feel like you how long it took you to kind of find that rhythm? Was it really after that six-month point that you learned to use pressure? Did everything really open up or did it take a while then? Like a new hurdle.

SPEAKER_01 38:36

I remember my first few classes being so hard because I was really out of shape. My husband and I both were really we were a lot bigger than we are now, and we were very unhealthy. We like I was a competitive athlete, but I had burned out, and I basically had done nothing for like a decade, and my body showed it. And so the first couple of weeks, it was just almost a slap in the face of like how little my body could move. And being a competitive athlete, I knew what it was capable of, but I couldn't do the things I knew I was capable of when I was in better shape. Um, and so I think that was part of why I hated it so much because it was almost like you know, that mirror that you're looking into and going, crap. Like I knew I had let myself go, but I don't think I really knew until I started trying to do jujitsu, and I was like, I can't move this way. But within, I want to say it was probably about three weeks because I mean I was struggling just to do like the warmups and do like forward rolls and you know the basic movements, and it was I think three or four weeks in that I was warming up, and my coach at the time was like, Aaron, do you realize that three weeks ago you couldn't do what you just did? And I was like, Oh, you're right. It like it didn't even dawn on me like how much I had progressed, and so I'm grateful that like he was knowledgeable enough to like point it out, and he was seeing the progression, even if I wasn't. And it was like having that moment and realizing like my body is responding, and I wasn't I wasn't even obsessed with it yet, and I wasn't training a ton, I was training like a normal person at that time, and my body was still responding quite quickly, and so that was encouraging to to realize like, oh, okay, my body's bouncing back, like I can, I can do this, but then yeah, it was uh it was around that six-month mark where I really realized, you know, to use my assets, and I think that that changed my game a whole heck of a lot, you know, however much of a game you can have at six months. That changed everything, and uh yeah, it changed the way I trained, it changed the way I competed because I started competing, I think, within I want to say three months maybe of starting to train.

SPEAKER_00 41:10

So um, I love so many things because I hear a common reason that women will tell me that they don't want to train, or like when I ask them, because now I'm like part of the cult that I ask every single person I know. I'm like, hey, you should come to the mats with me. It's super cool, fun. You'll meet lots of great people, you'll love it. And then oftentimes it's like I don't do any exercise or I haven't moved. I am my body's not used to moving like that. I'm afraid I'm gonna get hurt. I can't do it. So I love that you talked about yes, and you can still get through because that is a huge barrier for so many. And we are, I think, our worst critics. Like, I don't think anybody else is looking at me as intensely as I'm looking at myself. So I have to remember that. But I love that your coach recognized it because a coach can say, here is the move, you can do it. And if they do it easily, I don't want to say it's low level, but if I can do it, then they can do it. But for a coach to recognize this is hard for you because I know that you're you move differently than I do. I have seen your growth and I'm gonna point it out to you. That's huge. Like those are the coaches we want and the professors that we need in the gym because we all don't fit in the same box, don't treat us as such, but also we all have different wins.

SPEAKER_01 42:27

Yeah, it's a it I definitely think that a huge part of my success and making this far in the journey was because of where I started. I'm I'm grateful that I started in a more recreational gym, a more welcoming gym, and you know, with a coach who who had the time and the capacity to kind of pay attention to those kinds of things. I think had I started at my current gym, because it is so competitive and it is so intense, I could see that being overwhelming for someone like myself who was just struggling to do a forward role, you know? And that's not to say like I think that beginners could start at my gym too. I just think for me, myself, I wonder, given how much I didn't really like it in the beginning, if I would have stuck with it.

SPEAKER_00 43:19

You know what I mean? I think that's an important part because every day I show up, I don't want to say I'm a different person, but if there was it's it's kind of wild to have ended up in the spot that I did. Like this, not that the stars aligned, knowing there are lots of different kinds of gyms with different kinds of focuses. Some are going to be that community, the building, and that collective that's really important. Those gyms are important. The high technical, the high competitive ones, those are important. The really big gyms are important. The more like boutiquey small mom and pop gyms are really important. And knowing that if you don't necessarily find what you're looking for right away, it's okay to keep looking. And you kind of never know where you're gonna end that. End up and fall into.

SPEAKER_01 44:02

No, I was just gonna say, I think it is really important. I think, you know, in the the history of jujitsu, there's been like a negative connotation among like, you know, switching gyms or doing things like that. And even honestly, when we switched from the UFC gym to the gym that we went to, which ironically was the gym that our coaches trained at. So it's not like we really jumped too far. We we went to an academy where our coaches trained at so that I could compete at like IBJ JF and stuff, because UFC gym wasn't set up for that. Um, even that, there was some like animosity amongst like our teammates from the UFC gym. Like it's so funny, like the culture back then was very much like you don't leave where you're at. And I think I appreciate the change in culture, you know, the last few years where it's like you're a paying customer, go go where you want, go where you're happy. You know, it it's not it's not the cult that people make it out to be.

SPEAKER_00 45:03

I think it can be. I think certain gyms are, and but again, if you if that is your jam and you want to be part of it, you go be part of it. But not every gym is like that, and you're right, they're very yeah, you're like you you go drink the Kool-Aid, it's it's good.

SPEAKER_01 45:21

No, I gotta say, I think one of the things I really appreciate about my professor, even though we are part of one of those larger, you know, check mat teams. My professor is very yeah, I feel like his philosophy is very different from the norm of some of these big team philosophies. He's very much like jujitsu lifestyle. I just want to coach and I want to train, and I want other people to come train with me. And I don't care if you're from 10th planet or Gracie Baja or he's like, I don't care who you are, where you're from, what patch you have on your gi. He's like, just come train. That's all I want. And I love that. And he also encourages his own students to go and cross-train and go other places, and he he loves it. He's like, come back and tell me what you taught what you learned.

SPEAKER_00 46:08

Jiu-Jitsu should not be like, we should not gatekeep it. It should be something that's available for all that want to be a part of it. I love the beauty of a larger community and knowing if like it's kind of altruistic, I guess. We all want to get better so we can be better competitors, we can be better training partners, we could be better for ourselves. And hopefully we can all have that vision. But if you don't, that's okay, I guess. How many do you do you keep track of how many competitions you've done? And then like moving forward, what's your vision or what do you hope the next five years look like?

SPEAKER_01 46:41

I have no idea. I I just remember at White Belt, I did, I think, I want to say 14 or 15 competitions. And I I competed a lot, a lot through all of the belts, and it slowed down more at the higher belts. Just again, as I get older and I I still compete adult division, so it's it's intense. But yeah, I have no idea how many comp I should I should try to tally it up at some point.

SPEAKER_00 47:07

That'd be amazing. Where do you see what does the next five years look like for you?

SPEAKER_01 47:12

Oh my gosh, I don't even know. I I so I am still competing adult division, and you know, being a 40-year-old competing with the 18 and overs is challenging. I I you know it's it's always been good and and I've done well in that division, but I realize that black belt, it's like a whole new world. But I still want to keep trying to do it until I can't. The goal was always I wanted to be adult black belt world champion. So I'm still like seeking to see if I can make that happen, though I do sometimes feel like I'm racing against the clock. But I feel like I have a uh a few more years to give it a give it my best shot. And then beyond that, I just I really want to, you know, enjoy jujitsu and just keep learning. And I feel like when you get your black belt, like they they always say it's like starting over, and I think when you're at the lower belts, you don't always fully understand that, but it really is. It's like it it's not the end, it's really just the beginning.

SPEAKER_00 48:14

So sometimes I look at like cliche phrases and I'm like, oh, that seems like of course it makes sense in any get theory, like, oh no, it really does make sense there. That really is the vision that we see. You have a lot of influence, like I how do I say that? Like, I saw in your profile you do like coaching and like mental prep for competition. Do you as we start to wrap up our time together? Do you want to give a plug about that or talk about a little bit how that you can help others?

SPEAKER_01 48:45

I've been a competitive athlete my whole life. I I swam all the way through college. I transitioned from swimming to do triathlons, and then I can like I kind of mentioned before, I completely burned out on all athletics, and then I found jujitsu. And so I've competed a lot throughout my life, and I know that a big part of competition is mindset. Even if you are the best jujitsu player in training, that always doesn't always translate to gold medals. Competition in of itself is its own skill set that you have to train and learn and grow with. And so, and a big part of that is the mental like fortitude and knowing how to control your emotions and control the nerves. Everyone gets nervous, just some people handle it better than others. And those are the ones that you see often winning, the ones who know how to handle the mental side of competition. So I I definitely know a lot about the mental side, and I can help if anyone wants some mindset training. Um, I also obviously am happy to do jujitsu classes, and I've never done a seminar, but I would love to. So I'm open.

SPEAKER_00 49:56

Yay, that's wonderful. Thank you for taking the time to talk to me today and throughout all the technical difficulties. We've gotten to the end of the finish line. Of course. Well, thank you for having me. I had fun. Yeah, wonderful. Thanks a lot. My shout out today goes to Grace. I alluded at the end of the interview with Erin about the technical difficulties, and y'all, my wi-fi really was not cooperating, and she was so sweet, and she put up with my shenanigans as I kept trying to reconnect. I want to give myself the tiniest of pats on the back because I think the interview more or less goes smoothly, and you don't see have to see the digital duct tape that I had to add on the back end. But that little bit of grace that we can show others, and maybe a little bit more grace we need to show ourselves. Every time we take those chances to get out to our comfort zone, wonderful things happen, just like pushing through and making this episode come to life. Erin was such a phenomenal guest. There were so many bits to her story that were incredibly relatable, but also gave such a firm foundation and jumping off points for moving forward, not only in jiu-jitsu, but in life in general. Thank you so much for listening to this episode. I know I'm gonna call it a wild one, and hopefully it just seems like another pajama party to you. So thank you for tuning in, and I can't wait for the next pajama party.