EPP: Meet Sue (Can Classical Piano and Jiujitsu be friends?)

This week I got to sit down with my friend, Sue. Sue’s story is a testament to the beauty of integrating different passions in life. By exploring the connections between classical piano and jiu-jitsu, she demonstrates that learning and growth are lifelong journeys filled with joy and discovery. So, whether you're a musician looking to try something new or a martial artist seeking creative expression, remember that the harmonies in life often emerge from unexpected places. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:05

Hi everyone, welcome to Emily's Pajama Party. I'm your host, Emily, and I'm so glad you're here. Here at Emily's Pajama Party, I love a good story. I love to hear how women got into jujitsu. I love the little special world they have carved out for themselves. I love how it can turn into something magic and gigantic. So today on the episode, you'll hear ways of improving jujitsu games as well as a wonderful story with a friend of mine. So sit back, get cozy, and let's begin. This week, when I talk about how to make myself a better grappler, I have to remember that grip fighting is self-defense. It's one of those things that is very underrated, but so important. If you can control someone's grips, you control their distance, their posture, movement, the attacks. Grip fighting is stand-up survival and guard survival. I tend to be one of those reactive players, and for so long, I have always had someone kind of grab on, then I try to get away, and then I try to get out of it. And just recently, I've really been working on establishing grips early. Yes, this is more of a ghee thing more than no-gee, but it is just so important. It's gonna look different. That's fine. When I make a point to control grips and find my rhythm and feel in control of the situation. Well, not really in control because it takes me a minute and I'm learning, but at least I'm making an effort, right? So that's something to be said. And now on to the interview. In today's fast-paced world, finding balance in our passions can feel overwhelming. How do we integrate different aspects of our lives, such as music and martial arts, in a way that enhances our personal growth? In this episode today, we are going to dive into the inspiring journey of my friend Sue, a classical musician who took up Jiu Jitsu later in life. Through her unique experiences, she uncovers the profound connections between her two passions and shares valuable insights that can inspire anyone looking to explore harmony in their own lives. So sit back, get cozy, and hear my conversation with my great friend Sue. Sue, thank you so much for joining me on the podcast. I'm so glad you're here.

SPEAKER_00 2:23

Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_03 2:24

Yay. Okay, my first question has become a very consistent one over time. If you were to meet somebody for the first time, how would you introduce yourself?

SPEAKER_00 2:34

Gosh.

SPEAKER_03 2:35

It doesn't have to be jujitsu related at all. It can just be you as a person.

SPEAKER_00 2:39

You know, usually I say, hi, I'm Sue. I'm very tired. Nice to meet you because I feel like I'm always lacking in sleep. And jujitsu has not helped, but that's okay. It's worth it. You know.

SPEAKER_03 2:51

That's funny. So you do lots of different things. And how long have you been playing the piano? Because that's going to be a big part of what we talk about today.

SPEAKER_00 2:59

Gosh, I did, I started kind of formal training when I was about 14. And I'm about a hundred years old. So if you do, if you do the math there, so it's been like, gosh, I 20 some years. I'm 42. So whoever's good at math, because I'm not, that's how many years. So it's been a long time for sure.

SPEAKER_03 3:22

Now you started formal training at 14. Did you kind of play around with it? Is there music in your family?

SPEAKER_00 3:26

There's no music in my family. And I say formal training because I wanted to start earlier, but piano is very expensive, especially classical piano. And I'm first generation Asian American. So my parents did the best they could. And I didn't really find a, you know, proficient teacher until I was about 14 when I went to arts high school and I found her. And she's from Poland. So I kind of got into that real quick and real fast and hard.

SPEAKER_03 3:54

I'm curious what drew you to classical piano at such a young age, because I think a lot of parents are like, let's pick an instrument, see how it sticks, go from there. And to hear a child passionate about music, you must have been like every parent's dream.

SPEAKER_00 4:09

I don't remember when I first heard piano, but I do remember wanting to make music. You know, I I didn't even go to my first concert, I'm sure, till like much later. Okay, because concerts are very expensive. But I heard a lot of music like in church, you know, hymns and then choirs. And I think that drew me to music. And then piano seemed a lot more accessible because it seemed like everyone had a piano in their home except for us, you know.

SPEAKER_03 4:37

Okay, so the big piece is going to be a music piece and a jiu-jitsu piece. And so how did jujitsu then enter your life?

SPEAKER_00 4:44

So I started jujitsu when I was 38, around 38. And I decided to do it during the height of the anti-Asian hate movement. And it was like during COVID, and I came across a few situations where I realized very quickly that I couldn't protect my family, my daughters. And they were very young at the time. And after kind of a few nights of mulling over, I actually contacted one of my friends who I knew did some kind of fight sport, and he recommended jujitsu. And he said that most of the fights end up on the ground, then I that I should try it. So it it took me another, I think, two weeks after that to commit to it. Because as a, you know, classical musician, I can only speak for myself. We're very isolated and we're used to that. You know, even like the way we work, we're very kind of one-on-one, or maybe with a couple of chamber music partners. So to enter an arena or a sport where it's just so body contact immediately was very scary. And, you know, but I felt like I didn't have a choice at the time.

SPEAKER_03 5:53

There's a lot of there's a such a bravery piece to that because we could see meet adversity and cower and hide and kind of build up walls around us. And if you're with the music piece and you're already, you're right, like the isolated piece to be able to step out of that and to see the value. I can only imagine, like I wanted to do it and it was scary. I can only imagine going into it. I'm scared, this is scary, and I still have to do it anyway.

SPEAKER_00 6:20

Right. Well, they say necessity is the mother of everything, right? And I felt like I didn't have a choice at the time, you know. But I was lucky that my kind of first experience with it was was very welcoming. My my first gym was very open and the atmosphere was very relaxed. So it did, it was as easygoing as one could, you know, enter into a contact sport where and I had no background in combat sport at all. Like I, I haven't even picked up a hammer before or like done anything like, you know. So to kind of go into that was, you know, a big push. But like I said, it was it's been a wonderful journey so far, you know.

SPEAKER_03 7:04

What surprised you most about it?

SPEAKER_00 7:07

I think what surprised me most about it was that at least for the few the first month, because I I made a kind of a contract with myself that I couldn't quit for 30 days because I knew I was gonna hate it. And was I thought the first couple classes, they were just giving me extra attention, and that's why they were so close to me. And then after 30 days, I'm like, oh, they're just always this close to you. This is not going to stop, you know. And I think slowly as time went on, I I realized this is actually what the sport is, you know. And that surprised me, I think, for at least a few months before I really accepted what jujitsu was. Because there's so much information being thrown at you, you know, you're not, it's it's a very like nebulous thing when you have no knowledge of it. And I wasn't looking it up on YouTube or anything, I just kind of like went into it, you know. So but also like how fun it was, honestly. I think as we get older, we become, we can be become fixed in our ways and even our body movements. And all of a sudden, you know, I'm doing like roles and I have to be like a panda bear, and and it gives you kind of the openness allows you to become a child again and like roll around, roll backwards, you know. And it's that was also an element that I did not expect because you know, things were very heavy, the atmosphere was very heavy, and there would the the levity that jujitsu brought into my life was very welcome at the time.

SPEAKER_03 8:40

I love the childlike aspect of play. And like you don't, I'd say nowadays kids do watch others play online, but there's like this little part with like two, three-year-olds that just find something new. I remember my son pretending a little stone. He had what a stone in each hand, and one was a horse and one was a hat. And like obviously they of course they were to him, and he's running around like, what are you doing? And there's that piece of like just not knowing what is right or what is wrong, and just that movement and fluidity of it.

SPEAKER_00 9:14

Absolutely. The exploration and allowing yourself to explore, you know, is something that is really lost, you know, as we grow up older, you know.

SPEAKER_03 9:27

I like that the closeness of it sometimes when I'm in mid-roll, I don't see what anybody else is doing. It's almost like the world shuts down and there is a it's nice because you're like, I wonder if I moved this way, would have happened. Oh, I that now I know what happens. Yeah, rolled into the choke.

SPEAKER_00 9:43

Yes. I experienced that too many times. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:49

Was it intimidating learning something completely different than music? Because that I would imagine that has been such a main focus and drive because you turned into a profession and all these pieces to learn something new and to be such a beginner again.

SPEAKER_00 10:03

It's been, you know, it was definitely a big learning curve, you know. I think because I had not been a beginner for so many years, I knew it was going to be difficult. But I didn't know to the extent of the layers of jujitsu. And as, you know, now four years into training, I realized how similar, almost parallel jujitsu is with classical piano, in that you think you get to like a high level, and then that's actually where you start your journey. And I know that sounds so cliche, but it's the same exact for piano, you know. Once you're able to learn the language, then you want to start speaking it. But before, you know, all of these other, you know, the pieces and the technique is to prepare you for your expression, how your your poetry, your language, your your jujutsu, you know, like the way I play piano, no one else can play like me. Not that I'm better or worse, it's just me. It's the way I touch the keys, the way I phrase the notes. And that's what I'm I want in jujitsu so badly right now. And and, you know, I my husband, Andre's my main training partner, and we we talk about this so much. And he tells me that, you know, you want to be playing pieces already, and you're just learning the notes literally on the piano, like this is doe, this is Ray, this is me. And once in a while, like I feel like I can put a phrase together, but it's very like maybe two or three notes, you know. But then I see people around me, I'm like, yes, that's that sounds good, that looks good, that's how I want it, you know. And at the beginning, it is a lot of like copying, right? Like, I like the way this person rolls, you know. I remember my um one of my main professors, John Crencia, sent me like footage of the Mendez brothers rolling, and this was like two and a half years, uh three years into training, and I'm like, what is this? This is this this is jujitsu, this is beautiful. And I feel like before then I thought of jujitsu more of like, how can I not die in my rolling, and how can I defend myself, and not as like a form of expression, you know, and then I started looking more into that style, and then I saw like Margarelli, I believe her name is, and then like following her, and then just seeing this whole new layer of jujitsu that as a white belt, you know, my first year or two that was I was completely unaware of, you know, and then I then I started seeing the parallels in the you know piano and jiu-jitsu, like how does Marcelo Garcia roll versus like one of the Mendez brothers, you know? And I could see the different styles of piano players also like that. So it was just like really fascinating, especially in the last, I would say, year and a half, I've started drawing more and more parallels with that.

SPEAKER_03 12:52

I love the phrase. The more I know, the more I realize I have like no idea. I just butchered it because I was panicking on the spot. But it's just the it's the unwrapping. You're like, oh, there is a whole possibility I didn't even realize. And right then you get there. Oh, now I know a little bit more and I realize there's an entirely larger world that I have never even considered. It's so exciting to see all that. And yeah, what made you decide to keep coming back? Because it can be pretty daunting in the beginning to feel like I I've been working so hard and it feels clunky, or it doesn't feel like me, or this is not cohesive.

SPEAKER_00 13:30

It was the feeling after rolling. I always joke that I'm actually driving the speed limit after I train jujitsu. You know, and that's something to be said in LA. You know, I I feel like we have so much tension in our lives that to have a safe space where you can be chaotic, but like safely, and then have this kind of you know, hand-to-hand combat, which is, you know, obviously been around for thousands of years, but it's been kind of like taken out of our society, you know, really it's it's a very cathartic experience. And because of that, you know, I I kept coming back because I just like that feeling after, and also, you know, the progression. I like that you have to work for progress and that there is no end in sight, kind of like music, right? There's no like, hey, I'm gonna, you know, work from. I remember my young daughter, my youngest, saying, When is your piece done? Because I was working on a piece. I'm like, it's never really done. Because in 10 years from now, I'm gonna play this piece and it's gonna be completely different again. But I like that aspect of the never-ending, the constant growing and evolving. And when I realized jujitsu was like that, that's why I kept coming back.

SPEAKER_03 14:42

It's interesting. I love, I love the story, and I love the passion in people's eyes when they talk about a story. Like, I don't, everybody loves their own things. I found out one of my parents in my class, he's a numismatist. And of course, I have to go look it up, and it's a rare uh collector of rare coins, correct collector seller of real coins. Like, and he would talk about it, and his eyes would shine bright because he was so passionate about it. I have like very, very limited knowledge of the musical world, but you make it so digestible. I could just listen to you talk about this all day. This is so awesome. I love to hear how people's lives are integrated in such a way so differently than my own. So this is I I love it so much. I just had to note out for a second. What are some of if you thought of like a couple of the large takeaways, what are the similarities between learning piano and jujitsu?

SPEAKER_00 15:36

You know, I actually had a breakthrough about, I don't know, five, six months ago when I was, because I teach a lot of classical piano. I realized that my playing was changing. And this was very, very strange to me because, you know, with two young kids and then actually training jujitsu, my actual practicing the piano has really gone down like drastically, like 90%, because you know, there's only so many hours in a day. But then I realized the way I moved and the way I distributed weight was different. And I realized it was because of jujitsu. And then I've been taking judo with my husband, and and I realized I was playing more efficiently on the piano, like um very fast passages, difficult passages. I was able to dissect it in a very different manner, and I was thinking differently, even though I had not been touching, you know, the keyboard. And it was because it was, you know, because jujitsu is so tactile, it's literally changing the way I am as a pianist. And I always thought it was going to be the other way, where, you know, oh, I'm a pianist, so I'm gonna roll the way I play, but it's it's it's an absolutely, you know, they're just feeding off of each other, you know. And like I mentioned before, you know, there's I play a certain way, and then I realize now why I like this specific style of jujitsu, because it's the way I play. It's this very like flowy, you know, the the phrasing, I would say, even when I see people roll, I can almost hear the music, you know, and where the staccatos are and on the crescendos and the stopping, and then you know, the breathing, and then the pushing, and then like the sweeping. You you literally can write a piano piece if you watch someone.

SPEAKER_03 17:16

I love how we can look at the world and through such different eyes and see. Like I I went to my son's prom he had prom pictures the other day. I have a high school senior, my oldest, and that's just like an experience within itself. But I would remember stepping back and the quiet that comes over as like the scene unfolds in front. And I saw these beautiful young women in distresses and the expressions on their faces and how they interacted with each other and the boys and how handsome and proud, and then the parents and the interactions. It's like you sit back, or like when I watch children play, there's like a beauty to it. And when we can take ourselves out of it and just kind of get lost in that moment, yeah, I could imagine mine is death, deathly, deathly silence, but I'm sure the sound comes around yours. But both ways, it's such an appreciation, it really slows down the moment to make it memorable or special, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 18:12

For sure that silence, you know, in jujitsu is when you go into the flow state, right? They always talk about that with any, you know, job or art or whatever you're doing. And I've only gotten in a few times, you know. They say, also runners high, because I remember you telling me you do marathons, right? You just get into this amazing state where you're not thinking anymore, you're just living in the moment. And in jiu-jitsu, you have to, right? You you have to, you can't, or or for me at least, I'm not technical enough to be planning the three moves ahead. I'm just like, this movement, okay, don't die here. Okay, you know, and same with you know, piano when you're performing, if you're overthinking it, you're the music does not go. It doesn't flow anymore. You know, there's almost like a rigidity that you have to push past. And uh with jujitsu, I feel the same way with that.

SPEAKER_03 19:04

I have a tendency with my running to pop in and out of presence. Sometimes I'm the observer, and sometimes I'm in the moment I find myself trying to do that in jujitsu, and it absolutely does not work. I'll be like rolling with someone new, and I'm like, whoo, they did this move. That's like, oh no, I'm being choked, or like there goes their arm over my leg or their knee around my neck. I really need to be an active participant. I can't do that. So it definitely like ropes me in, like that big hook brings me back into the presence because there's no other option.

SPEAKER_00 19:39

I remember speaking to a friend a while back about they she trained, her coach had her in uh blindfolded, and which is so interesting because you know, you see a lot of musicians are performing and they're closing their eyes, you know, and they're just kind of feeling, you know, where their fingers are going. And it's I I maybe I'll try that, but maybe in the maybe in five, six more months. Right now, I feel like I would just face plant.

SPEAKER_03 20:04

There's a couple of my friends at the old gym, and the guys will roll with their eyes closed. And they're so much better about it. Like I played the banjo for a number of years, and I was always yelled at for it by looking at either hand because you just have to feel it. And it stinks in the beginning, but it's like once you get it, you get it, and then you don't have to think because you notice where things should be. And I I hear the same thing about rolling. You can feel when someone's weight is shifting before you notice it with your eyes.

SPEAKER_00 20:32

Yes. I'm not there yet, but hopefully, not there yet. I can feel when my weight drops into the ground very, very hard.

SPEAKER_04 20:41

My feet leave the ground. Oh, there I go.

SPEAKER_03 20:44

Free rides. Uh so it oh, interesting. Now, how important is repetition for both?

SPEAKER_00 20:53

So repetition in classical piano is paramount. You you you have to, but it can't be mindless repetition. You have to be very kind of aware of your weight, your technique, you know. And then uh I think this is one of the downsides of classical music is everything is based off of perfection. And because you know, everything is recorded, a lot of the audience members expect the musician to play perfectly. So all of a sudden it's not about expression anymore, but about perfection, you know. So that is one thing that I've learned in jiu-jitsu. It is important for me to repeat everything again and again, but I realize it does not help me. And maybe this is the way my brain works now that I'm older, but I've been doing a lot more like CLA training where instead of you know, they basically gamify everything. Like one class I recently took was just standing, and you just have to touch your partner's toes. That's it. You know, and all of a sudden we're doing moves that we would. Never do instead of like you must do this and you must do that, and everyone reacts so differently, you know. And then the next one was like, put your hands behind your back and do it, you know. So I in we so we would repeat these exercises, but you see, every single time the exercise is different because your partner changes, and then you change depending on them. So I have not figured out how to do that with piano yet. With uh classical piano. The the the closest thing I can do that is if we're repeating a phrase in like a Chopin Waltz, I ask my students to play it four different ways, kind of like speaking a sentence four different ways. You know, we're humans, we're we're not gonna say it completely the same, even if we try to. You know. But that's kind of where I am with the repetition right now, honestly, with jujitsu for me at this point in my jujitsu career, if you want to call it. My my glorious hobbyist jujitsu career.

SPEAKER_03 22:52

Hey, we're not all of us are meant to be pro athletes. Like if we want to get there, awesome. But also I like being able to move and I like being able to learn, and I like a safe place to fail.

SPEAKER_00 23:05

Yes, absolutely. That's one thing that, oh my gosh, that was one thing in jiu-jitsu. I I really and I'm I'm still working on is failing so much. You know, I think I think coming into a sport where you're kind of an expert, and I say expert with huge quotes in piano, I didn't know I would bring so much ego into it. And like I said, I I knew it was gonna be hard, but I didn't know how hard it would be when they're like, no, you don't know how to roll even properly. You have to go back and learn how to roll. And I'm just kind of like rolling like a crab, and I'm like, I can't roll though. You know, you really have to learn how to fail over and over and over again. And again, that's one of the beautiful things about jujitsu is like it it forces you to work for that, you know, that move that finally you hit it during a roll, and you're like, yes, one out of three thousand times. Amazing, I'm gonna celebrate now, you know. And but that's that's still a win in my books, you know.

SPEAKER_03 24:13

So it's hard, you're right. Like when we've had so much success. I not jujitsu related, but I went on a date once to an axe throwing place. Oh first of all, it was very funny because don't wear open-toed to open-toed shoes to an axe place because you I ended up having the poor guy was nice enough, he let me put on his sneakers in between like my bare feet in his shoes. So, step number one, fail. I was, I'm a pretty athletic person. I am terrible at axe throwing. I thought I was gonna be so much better. This girl comes up and like whack and gets it right away.

SPEAKER_04 24:45

I was so mad.

SPEAKER_03 24:47

What am I doing wrong? But like I'd say the jujitsu. I always say my biggest nemesis of it is a 12-year-old right now. She like waxes me.

SPEAKER_00 24:57

My first in-house tournament and my only geek competition because I've been so traumatized, was by like this prodigy 15-year-old. She just she killed me so quickly. And I was like, I'm gonna take her down. And she let me take her down, and then she killed me like three times. And she was so nice about it after, and I was so confused because she's like, Thank you so much. I'm like, Why are you thanking me? You just killed me three times with things I didn't even know existed. By the way, I'm I'm still friends with her. She's she's amazing.

SPEAKER_04 25:25

I always love that when they get done, and I'm like, how did you even? What just happened? I know you grabbed my deck and I think you like pulled it like a lawnmower, but I don't know you show me that just because I would love, not that I'm ever gonna do it again.

SPEAKER_03 25:39

I'm just really impressed.

SPEAKER_00 25:41

It was it was a very interesting experience, um, very humbling.

SPEAKER_03 25:45

Yeah, I would say it's it reminds me of like the cats when they bring you lizards because they just think that we're really bad hunters, and they're like, we're gonna give you this dead lizard because obviously you can't catch your own lizard. That's how I currently feel like my that's my analogy for my jujitsu. Everyone is like moving my limbs. They're like, no, no, you fell the wrong way. I fell on the ground. Is there a possible way to fall the wrong direction?

SPEAKER_00 26:12

It's it's it's you know, it's so hard to. I I don't know how you manage your training. Um for classical piano players, I know that we get burnt out really quickly. It's all about like competition, competition, competition. And then at some point they just quit piano altogether. I've been lucky enough to, I don't know how, to regulate myself at some point. And I did like stop playing for a few years and then come back and then kind of enjoying it. Um, but with jujitsu, like I've definitely gone through at least a few burnout sessions already. What about you? I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 26:44

I mean, as I'm like sitting here with my boot on because that has been really hard to like talk to people, even interviewing. I'm like, I just want to be on the mat. And I just got her grappling Denny, and I'm like, okay, what am I gonna do? And they're like, step one, Torreando pass. I'm like, can't use my foot. So I could just like basically lay across and practice Americanism. I'm like, that's that's cool. That's really gonna help me. Yeah, I really struggle with being 44 and should have done this before. I did it, I had a background in martial arts. I thought I was gonna come in here and no step. And guess what? My little bit of knowledge has gotten me half a percent on anybody like in my growth. And I had to, I would say it was more of a detriment. Like, as we talk about going in with childlike innocence, I had so many bad habits I had to break through, and ego was absolutely my number one issue, and I still struggle with it. So I feel like I am a people pleaser star earner, and so I'm like, I must do the move this way for it to count. And then you're like, actually, there are lots of different ways to make a triangle more effective for you, and learning what's okay for you, and then also knowing that even if you do your very best triangle, there's a lot of people that can even get out of it, even if it's your best, and that's okay too.

SPEAKER_00 28:01

And so, it's a lot. 100%. There's so many outliers that I know where my husband being one of them, where I'm like, I did the move perfectly. He's like, Yeah, but I know things, you know. And what frustrates me, but I also love him to death, is we've been training for almost the same amount of time, and he just learns just differently. He learns faster. And it's the same in classical piano. I can be practicing 10 hours a day, but an eight-year-old prodigy from Russia is gonna be like, hey, I learned this when I was five, you know, and you you're just gonna have to shake your head and you're like, I just have to keep going. This is my own journey, and I just have to discover it my own way, you know.

SPEAKER_03 28:41

Well, and it and and what I understand belts and I understand stripes, and I and like I'm I'm glad I'm at a point in my life where I don't need that for validation. I kind of wish I could just stay a white belt forever. If anything, then if they beat me, then I wouldn't feel so bad about it. But I'm like, I've been trading for a long time. As you're right, it's someone has just they are just this comes very easy to them. And I feel like I really have to work at those things because maybe it's that self-discovery. Like I'm still learning where my strengths are and where what I can do well, and that might be very different than anybody else at my gym. And you're right, finding your own signature, your own expression, your own language, your own spin on things. And I just want a little bit of success sometimes.

SPEAKER_00 29:33

You know, what if you go to the kids' gyms? Maybe we can kill some kids there. No, actually, they actually they would definitely kill us too, these kids these days.

SPEAKER_03 29:41

They would. They're like, oh, and that's what I was gonna say earlier. If I ever thought it jujitsu was for sure like a weight discrepancy thing, the 12-year-old, I easy have 40 pounds on her, and she just spins around my head, and all of a sudden it's like, what?

SPEAKER_00 29:57

I'm literally gonna be a white belt forever. I don't care what belt I am, I'm blue right now, but I'm very happy being a white belt. I don't need to, I tell my goodness, I don't need to be promoted because every time I get promoted, I feel like I regress. My brain's like, ah, you gave me a stripe. This means I can go to vacation with my brain for six months, you know. It's like, please just let me be in my corner and like try to figure things out.

SPEAKER_03 30:21

I'm like the opposite of sandbagging. I'm like, can we just keep removing the things from mine because then I'm gonna just feel better about myself because there's less expectations? Yeah, maybe that's the thing too, because that ego comes in thinking I should be able to the to the to do this thing or recall, and then I start to panic and I forget everything, everything.

SPEAKER_00 30:41

Oh, everything. I've had so many instances where, like, what is jujitsu? What am I doing right now? I went to a new gym recently. I'm like, oh, all right, it's gonna be one of those days. And you know, I've had so many of those days where I just let go and just do my best, you know.

SPEAKER_04 30:57

I was working with this brown belt. I'd never worked, I've never seen her since it was the first time eating her.

SPEAKER_03 31:02

I rolled and she's like, I thought you would know more than you did.

SPEAKER_00 31:06

Oh no.

SPEAKER_03 31:08

I have to laugh about it now because I was in full panic mode. I didn't, and so I know when I'm like that, like caveman lip lizard brain takes over, and I don't, I can't do anything. So, did I perform exactly how I thought I would under pressure? Yes, but I came back, so that's a good thing.

SPEAKER_00 31:26

That's that's what matters. And you know, I feel like, you know, we're in our 40s, we have kids, we have a job, you know, we're trying to juggle so many things, and on top of this, a very, very intense sport, you know. So, you know, half the time when I do go into my gym and I I literally walk on the mat, bow, and then just like lay flat like a starfish. Like they know why they've accepted that. And so I'm okay with whatever progress, you know, or not progress that I have because sometimes it's just showing up and not dying too hard, you know.

SPEAKER_03 32:01

I used to really get on myself for not rolling more, like at the end, I'll get like two, three, four rolls in, and I always leave gas in the tank, and I didn't know why. And I really have been on myself to push more, but I've been listening and hearing a lot more. Like there is a sweet spot where the learning happens. Once you hit a point of exhaustion, a lot of injuries happen. Weird things happen when you're really tired, and so maybe that's a secret sauce of me lasting a little bit longer. I don't know, we'll just see.

SPEAKER_00 32:34

I got shoulder surgery a year ago, and I pushed too hard with one of one roll that was just not safe, and I dislocated my shoulder and then they kept dislocating because I didn't take a break like I was supposed to. That my physio told me, Diana. She was like, You need to take a break. And I was like, Okay, I'll try. But ever since getting surgery, I've actually my brain has switched into preservation, right? It's not a sprint, it's a marathon. It's like, yes, I'm 42, but I want to be doing this when I'm 62, you know. And I'm also lucky that I'm I'm around professors that are like, hey, if you're training and you have to take three days off after, maybe you're training too hard. Just take it easy, you know. And it's so refreshing because in the in jiu-jitsu, you know, there's a culture of just like just push, push, push, push until you just break. And it's like, okay, maybe if you're 16. But I have a job, I have bills to pay, I have people to take care of, you know, but I also want to get my fix, right? So you're right. I I'm still trying to find that like balance. Like today, I really wanted to go train, but I'm so tired and broken. So like I went to go get a massage instead. Like that has taken me literally 42 years to go up to that point. You know, my husband's like, good job, good job on like knowing that you have zero in your tank today, you know. But like it it takes time, right? And I think jujitsu does attract people like you and me, like the personality where you just want to push harder. It's like, and where is my breaking point? I don't know until I break it. And then it's like, and then we kind of put pull back a little. And it's not a bad thing, but you know, just have to keep an eye on it.

SPEAKER_03 34:14

You don't want to land on the sun, but Icarus can start to get a feel for how close to get. Sometimes we get a little too close to the sun, and then we're like, those were the three days off after that I needed to take.

SPEAKER_00 34:26

But you know, it it is what it is. And if I'm, I guess, in the mood now to go hard one day, then I'm gonna know I'm not gonna be walking straight or training for three days after. And that's where I am, where I'm accepting of that, you know. But yeah, recovery is so important. You know, I I feel like when I was competing a lot in piano, recovery was not a thing that was even talked about. I was in my 20s and we just kept pushing, pushing, pushing, pushing until you have like a nervous breakdown.

SPEAKER_03 34:53

You know, how many hours a day do you play the piano? Or okay, I guess as your as a bell curve would go, and what would be the height of, oh my gosh, this was living, eating, breathing piano. And now where you are now, how long?

SPEAKER_00 35:08

Oh, now I I maybe if I'm lucky, maybe one hour, you know. But back then, if I was competing and performing, it was like six to eight hours like minimum. And then if I wasn't at the piano, I would be like, you know, looking at scores, humming, oh, constantly thinking about like there was no break. I would be sleeping and I would be practicing my sleep. And you can see how burnout can happen very quickly that way. But you know, the good thing is I was so toxic with piano, I transferred it right to jujitsu. And I just spent hours studying jujitsu. And then when I would dream about roles and wake up and be like, that was not the way I wanted that role to go.

SPEAKER_03 35:45

Well, I heard that about addiction, right? Where just like trade one for the other. And I'm like, wow. And except I will say I could wake up at five in the morning and go run. I have been trying to do morning classes, but when you go, when I go run, it's like I turn off the out of office light in like my brain, and I just like think or listen to podcasts or sing or whatever. I have to use my brain at jujitsu. So those morning classes hit a little differently.

SPEAKER_00 36:11

Oh, they're so hard. I I did 6 a.m. for a year because I I had to, and it was like the worst decision of my life. I would be dead by 11 a.m. And that's like you know, the kids would be home in a couple hours, and they're like, Mommy, why are you so tired? You've been drinking coffee, and it's it's it's just so rough. And you know, 6 a.m. is too early for me to get choked out and my like heel hooked. Come on, guys. This is there should be no foot business that early in the morning, you know. So I stopped that real quick.

SPEAKER_03 36:41

I get and in theory, I was like, I could get more training in, and then my afternoons would be free. In practice, I was like, that wow, that did not pan out the way I wanted it to. So, what what other options do I have? And it's nice to think of different ones. Is there an overlap between performance anxiety and music and pressure in jiu-jitsu?

SPEAKER_00 37:03

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Competitions, I've only competed three times and I want to go back, but the what you were talking about earlier, the expectation to just be perfect is so overwhelming that you just don't want to even human anymore. If you know what I mean. And I'm the worst. When I get under immense pressure, I go into like the primordial fish mode, you know, where I'm just like and I get very tired. And this happens before every uh one of my jujitsu competitions and before concerts. I get super tired and I need to lay down and take a nap. You know, but when it when I do get past that, the kind of breathing, the breathing exercises, and just kind of going in and trusting that your body just knows what to do. Because the overthinking doesn't do well in concerts, nor does it do, as you know, in in jujitsu. And in competition, everything is so fast and everything's coming at you so fast that to think, there's no time to think. You know, and this is where maybe the repetition can come in, you know, that will help. And you just kind of hope for the best, you know. And if you do happen to get into a flow state, I've heard of people getting into flow state even in competition and in concerts, then you just have fun. And you know, one thing that really helped me at the last competition, because like I had gotten like a poisonous spider bite, and I was on antibiotics, and I was like, should I pull out? You know, and I was like, if I win or lose, like they're gonna give me a two dollar medal from Amazon, if that, and my girls are still gonna be there, my husband's still gonna be there. Like, see, just chill, you know, and uh it did help, like, you know, a little bit. I understand it is a learned skill, like competition is a different set of skills, you know. And the more you do it, obviously the better you get at kind of figuring out how your body reacts to that kind of pressure and the screaming, so much like stimuli, especially for like uh in-house tournaments, you know.

SPEAKER_03 39:12

So I remember like the other coach, she's going for this, she's going for this, and thinking well, you shut up. You're that's exactly what I'm going for.

SPEAKER_04 39:24

Tell her what I'm doing, and I'm also showing everyone what I'm doing, apparently. So that was that was hard to get used to because there's a lot of eyes.

SPEAKER_03 39:33

There's there's a lot of eyes, but there's also like 12 rings going on at the same time. So there's like a lot of eyes, like seven pairs of eyes watching.

SPEAKER_00 39:41

It's just chaos, you know, especially I feel like in health tournaments, it's even smaller, and everyone's just screaming at you. And you you hear nothing. I hear nothing, you know. Even at the last tournament, I'm sure the coach was saying something, and it and at some point he was like, I will say one word, just under hook, underhook, underhook. And he kept screaming at that over and over to me because I couldn't digest or process anything he was saying. And you know what? I got the underhook. So it works. I just need one word to be screamed at me 50 times, you know. It's it's very difficult, you know. Have have you competed a lot?

SPEAKER_03 40:21

I competed one time. I need to get back into it. It was like a thing, and as you know, as as a woman and getting older, I joined like the masters. Like, here's the age brackets, but then everyone older than this date is going to now work together. And I'm I could work with someone that's 65, I could work with someone that's 52. So finding people to compete against has been a challenge. Sometimes I'll sign up and I'll be the only one, and I refuse to show up and just get a medal because I want to get in there. I'd rather not get a medal and at least get on the mat.

SPEAKER_00 40:53

See, this is where you and I are different. I will definitely take the medal. They're like, look, girls, I got three medals and I'm gonna keep breaking up the lines. No, I love that.

SPEAKER_03 41:03

No, no, no. Why not? We're at we're again, we're not gonna go pro anytime soon. This is for fun, and that's that that's what happened. It's okay. I like it. What an I so I have I always say I give a list of questions before, and in between I take a look over. Do you think vulnerability is for is important in both piano and jujitsu?

SPEAKER_00 41:27

Yes, I think to succeed in both, you have to have it. And that is where I think it is very, very difficult because it it requires a lot of trust in yourself first, and then for jujitsu in your training partners. You know, trying new things, knowing that they will do their best in their power to not injure you, you know, and then in that space of vulnerability, you usually are able to take more risks, and that's what we want. That's kind of when the growth happens, right? When you're kind of you jump into the abyss and you're like, I'm just gonna try it. Right? A lot of things don't work in jujitsu when it's done halfway, right? When you're like, I'm gonna kind of do it, and then it just doesn't. And you just have to go for it, and then it works, or you just die hard, and then you just try it again. You know, and and getting into that space is is hard, you know, because I think with music, jujitsu shows your personality and like who you are. You know, some of my closest friends are my jujitsu partners, and there's a reason why you're vulnerable with each other, you trust each other, you spend probably the most amount of time with each other versus all other people in your life, you know, besides your kids. And I think that's a really beautiful place to be, you know, and it's very empowering to kind of own that too.

SPEAKER_03 42:50

How often are you getting in training these days in on the mats?

SPEAKER_00 42:54

Recently I haven't been training a lot, like once or twice a week. So but I make those as heavy duty as I can, like doing like the CLA approach and then like rolling, trying to roll a lot after. And I allow myself to kind of go with the flow of my schedule. I feel like before I was so anxious, like I need to train. I'm going, I'm getting behind, you know. I have to, I didn't learn the move of the day. I'm gonna just be horrible. And now it's like, all right, just chill. You wouldn't have remembered anyway, Sue. Just like just go when you can, do your thing. You can I can always ask people what was covered in class, you know. Because once it starts to become like a chore, like what's what what are we doing here? We we we want to be having fun, we want to be connecting with our partners. You know, at the end of the day, I started it to protect my family. So if it starts to take too much away from my family, then I have to renegotiate the timing of everything.

SPEAKER_03 43:52

Step number one is I want to re reframe when I've had a couple guests do this because I would do this, I feel it. Only one or two. Times a week. I feel like that is it's not good, it's not bad. It's just where we are and what we can do. And I it's hard. Like I would hear that when people would sign up for a race. It's like half marathon or marathon. They're like, oh, I'm only running the half. You're also running 13 miles. Like that's something, that's not anything to shake a stick at. Not when someone off the street couldn't just walk in and get that done without hobbling away. Like that's something to be proud of. Once or twice a week on the mat is amazing considering how much of the population has never trained before, or brave enough to even train it before. So I like that. Sometimes I'm super excited if I even got on those two times. I celebrate it because like life is busy and my family needs me, or there's awards and banquets and birthday parties, and there's a lot of things that we do to make it happen. And so you're right, quality definitely over quantity, making the most of the time that you're there.

SPEAKER_00 44:57

And you know, my my girl started training too, so it's become like a thing that we do. Like when we travel, wherever we go, we just find a jiu-jitsu gym, and then we just drop in. And it's really cool to be able to connect with like just literally anywhere in the world, there's a jujitsu gym now. You know, and just having fun and then exploring their style. Like you're literally learning their language. And every jujitsu gym is so different. You know, just like every music school is different, and you're opening yourself up to this new language, and you're changing every time you meet someone. Like I changed when I trained with you. I'm like, oh, this person is different. It's kind of amazing that it's just like constantly evolving who you are, depending on who you come across. I don't think you can say that with like a lot of like art forms, like like so so immediately, you know.

SPEAKER_03 45:44

Well, and I think about how many sports are like that or activities. I should I never know quite how to just uh how to label jujitsu, but like I did karate, it was a style that was dri derived off of showroad roo. We were part of like an affiliate, so there was like three or four dojos that we were similar to, or have that great. I would never have thought to jump into uh United Studios of South Defense or somewhere else and like pop in for a class and they would honor my belt, like it wouldn't happen, or even if I was on a softball team, I'm not gonna go drive by and see a team practicing and jump in and be like, hey, can I throw a couple pitches? It's not quite the same, but you did so you're like, there's a class. I have my belt, I have my things, I'm gonna go jump in. And they'd they're so welcoming, the inclusivity of it all. Not to say that all gyms are super like that, but I would say more often than not, we're going to be met with friendly faces.

SPEAKER_00 46:40

Look, this they they do this in classical piano, they call them masterclasses. I'm sure there's this term is used a lot, where you just study with different teachers. Like you have to to just see what else is out there, you know, and you can also see like what you don't like. I've been to schools where like, wow, I really didn't like that class, you know, and I appreciate my own gym more. You know, so I think this is kind of like this newer generation of jujitsu that athletes that are so open with each other and sharing and brainstorming. Um, I remember uh someone telling me about how Marcelo Garcia was the first one to put online content of his moves, and and they're like, How can you share your secrets? And he's like, Because I want to get better. Because if someone can be better than me, then I have to work on it. And that struck me as like, that's the kind of mentality I want. I don't want to hide or kind of like store secrets. I want to be getting better. And in doing so, everyone around you has to get better too. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 47:38

I would say that you're right. There are definitely the practitioners that have like their signature move or they don't want to teach you the details. Frankly, I'm not good enough to ever even learn from folks that like I'm like, I don't know what you just did. It looked really cool though. Good job. But so often I'll be working with like a purple belt and they'll be like, get your knees in here. And they're trying, they're actively trying to make me better because you're right. Like, if if their toys are better, then they get to have more fun. And also if they break their toys, then they have no more toys to play with. And so there is so much of that attitude of let's rise together. And gosh, I'm always getting feedback from people. And I always say if if I'm going to class only a couple times a week, I can't become the expert at the barambolo or whatever they're doing for the next three weeks. I might never be an expert, like we can face facts. They always flip me around to like a teddy bear, and all of a sudden they are on my back. I'm like, that was really cool. But if I learn, like keep my elbows attached to my knees, or when I'm on my back, try to pick a site, like I'm trying to find like one thing that I could walk away with that's gonna be an aha that can I can carry through lots of moves instead of something that was like super specific to just that technique.

SPEAKER_00 48:49

It's like learning a beautiful song, but they teach you like the three melody notes. They're like, okay, there you go. You're like, well, I don't really know where to put this, you know. So that's why like learning individual moves is really difficult. And like our body types are so different. What's comfortable for you is gonna be super uncomfortable for me, you know. So I always appreciate getting feedback, but also I just know how I learn now, which is like in one ear, out the other. And I just have to learn it myself and then process it my own like slow panda sloth way, which I love. I love being a panda sloth. I am 42 doing jujitsu, so I'm okay with that. I love it.

SPEAKER_03 49:29

What is scary for you? Performing piano in front of people or doing a competition?

SPEAKER_00 49:35

Oh, you know, they both are so terrible. I was just thinking about this last night and they just both suck so hard. You know, I mean at least with piano, no one's trying to just choke me out. But I feel like I would rather someone do that in the middle of a piece, it was going badly.

SPEAKER_04 49:50

And someone just runs off stage.

SPEAKER_00 49:52

Yeah, it's like, oh, she passed out, she can't finish the A tude. I'm sorry. You're gonna have to go home. It's like, uh, because there's a lot of mental torture there. But then with jujitsu, at least you're just like, okay, get it over with, and then there's adrenaline, and then you can go eat your you know, fries and in-and-out burger after get it over with. They're both challenging, and I know they're these are two things I'm going to be struggling with my whole life, honestly. But I also know that competition is an important part of my life, and for me to feel the progression, I have to compete. For me, that's just how I was trained growing up as a classical pianist. So I need to kind of um harness that, you know. As you know, like when you compete, all of a sudden you just get super dialed in because you know there's a state that you have to go. You don't know who your opponent is, you don't know how many matches you have. And it's it's great that adrenaline and that pressure. But then, right? Too much of that, then you can you want to just quit jujitsu.

SPEAKER_03 50:48

So it's constantly balancing, you know, that well, it's like I live in my house every day and it's mostly picked up. But if I think someone's gonna come over, I'm gonna like clean, clean, clean. Then I panic clean and just like throw everything in the cover. Eventually I have to clean those out, but it's not sometimes it's good to have people over, sometimes it's good to compete or perform because it helps you tighten up just a little bit, and then we life can go on and we can what did we learn from that?

SPEAKER_00 51:17

Yeah, and how can we literally, it's literally a hiccup, you know. No one I'm you know, I'm happy if we get a gold medal or no medal, but like no one's gonna care at the end of the day, you know. I mean, my girls like the shiny medals, they they put it on their dog, like their dolls and the dog, nobody really cares. Like all the the medals my husband won is just like all over the house, like whoa, whoa, whoa, whatever. You know, the main thing is that I'm gonna do it.

SPEAKER_03 51:42

I just take a picture with it. Yeah, take a picture with it that I like. Can I just give it back? I don't want more stuff in my house, right?

SPEAKER_00 51:48

Of course.

SPEAKER_03 51:49

If your jujitsu game could have a soundtrack, what would it sound like?

SPEAKER_00 51:54

Oh my gosh, I actually have a jujitsu soundtrack. It's so weird. I had Missy Elliott playing, I have a lot of like 90s hip-hop playing and just like grooving. Um, I recently started listening to like D'Angelo, that um I forgot what album, uh the voodoo album. Oh my gosh, just like very lo-fi kind of medium tempo because like I want to roll like that, but I roll more like oh, you know, but I want to roll more like this mellow, you know, flowy type. So that's actually what I've been playing a lot, you know.

SPEAKER_03 52:29

We could just do what is it, tump, tum, thump in. I get knocked down, that's me up again.

SPEAKER_00 52:37

That will definitely happen.

SPEAKER_03 52:40

Uh yes, one day it'll slow down and stop sounding like static.

SPEAKER_04 52:44

But oh, I'm like that sound in between when you're trying to find the radio station of the scratches between songs.

SPEAKER_03 52:52

Nothing makes sense. Oh my gosh, that's so funny. Well, I know that you were worried about time and talking and stuff, but it flew by like rapidly.

SPEAKER_00 53:01

So fun. Thank you for having me. It was really just fun talking with you about jujitsu.

SPEAKER_03 53:06

So, what's what comes next in your jiu-jitsu and piano adventures?

SPEAKER_00 53:11

Uh, we are going to Asia in a few weeks. So, we're gonna be training in Asia with the whole family. There's so much jujitsu, big jujitsu gyms like opening in Asia now. So, it's we're very excited, all of us, to go train. And then um, I think my husband is competing in the Masters International. I will be there, not competing, but eating something yummy while I watch him compete. And but hopefully, I don't know, maybe maybe next year I'll get back into competing. But right now I just want to chill and be a panda.

SPEAKER_03 53:41

So we need all sorts of animals in the zoo, and we can be pandas at times because be you know what, doggone it. People love pandas. I think they're probably like on the top three animals when I talk to little children, like that's their favorite.

SPEAKER_00 53:55

So I love kids' classes. That's probably why I love pandas. Like, I when I when I go to kids' classes, I learn the most, honestly. I'm like, oh, that's how it is. I I honestly is I think it's genius. So like you do the the legs are it's like a rainbow and you pull. I I should just go to kids' classes.

SPEAKER_03 54:13

There the coach was trying to get me to like again as I was falling, like still face my opponent. And he's like, Tony Stark at them. I'm like, what? He's like care bear stare. I'm like, gotcha. Nice. Speak my 80s kid lingo, and I will totally understand.

SPEAKER_04 54:32

That's right. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_03 54:34

Thank you so much, Sue. I'm so glad we had a chance to talk, and I'll push this out soon. I'm really excited for everybody to hear your story.

SPEAKER_00 54:41

This has been fun. Thank you so much. This was a first time in my life doing this, and I really appreciate it. Uh, you made it super fun.

SPEAKER_03 54:49

So I think as you've said, like sometimes when we give a chance to reflect on how our life kind of integrates and works together, it's really they're thoughtful questions. It's it's interesting to think about how they apply it to us.

SPEAKER_00 55:00

Yeah, for sure, for sure. All right. Well, thank you so much again.

SPEAKER_03 55:04

Yay! My shout-out this week goes to the perfect rolling song. What is that song that comes on that you just love? Maybe it's your hype music that you listen to and the bullpen getting ready for your role on the mat. Maybe it is the music that hyped you up on your way to practice. Maybe it's the music that you listen to when you're just kind of disassociating after a rough class. If you're listening to this, I would love for you to send me a text at part of the little podcast, whatever. And tell me what is one of your songs and why. Is it do you also listen to like lo-fi cool mellow 90s stuff? Or are you like thrasher music? I don't know. Again, something that I find totally interesting. What's your jam? As I wrap up the episode, a huge, huge thank you to my friend Sue. I understand that I signed up for this podcast thing, and I've asked people if they want to be on the show, and some people are just terrified. I totally respect that. Not everyone wants to hear them solves yup for the world to listen to. So I think there's a beauty in showing up exactly as we are. And Sue was that person. She was real and honest and funny, and I hope that her story resonates with some of you. Send it to someone that might benefit from hearing it. We get so many opportunities to get better while working with so many different people. So have fun, keep rolling. Thank you for listening to Emily's Pajama Party. And remember, tuck that chin.