EPP: Meet Lisa (Stories from the mats, white belt edition)

Most of us shy away from activities that feel intimidating or unfamiliar. Lisa J, a Miami-based therapist and new jujitsu enthusiast, reveals how she finally took the leap—and what it’s taught her about fear, body image, and resilience. From nervous first classes to surprising victories on the mat, she shares how embracing discomfort is transforming her mindset and even her therapy practice.

Perfect for anyone curious about trying something new, those looking to break down mental barriers, or martial artists inspired to embrace size and diversity—this episode will leave you inspired to face your fears and find strength in vulnerability. Whether you're a seasoned practitioner or a complete newbie, Lisa’s story proves that the most unexpected journeys often lead to the most powerful growth.

Join us to rethink what discomfort really means and discover why your most authentic training partner should be yourself. And remember—every black belt was once a beginner. Are you ready to start your own journey?

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:04

Hi everyone, welcome to Emily's Pajama Party. I'm your host, Emily, and I'm so glad you're here. This is a podcast fueled by a lifelong love of jujitsu, the sweat, the growth, the community, and all the lessons that spill their way onto the mats. Whether you're a seasoned grappler or brand new or just here for a good conversation, I'm so glad that you pressed play. Today's episode is full of stories and perspective and that magic that happens when people show up as they are. Let's jump right in. My little fact or my little blurb today about how I'm going to become a better grappler is that as a bluebelt, it's important for me to build a real escape plan. It's just that spazzy white belt, the I'm drowning, I need to get out of here. That just like bleeds over into bluebelt unless I do something about it. Bluebelts often no moves, but not survival. So I need to remember that I need to focus on mount escapes, side control escapes, back escape, hand fighting. A dangerous blue belt is really hard to hold down. And that just reminds me that I need to get out of fight or flight and really start thinking about what I'm doing. Otherwise, I'm going to be a spazzy blue belt that will probably never make it to spazzy purple belt. So I would like to learn some things and grow. So there we go. This week I was really excited to sit down with my friend Lisa. I think time is a thief in so many ways, and we forget the nuances of what we were as a beginner, even what life looked like a couple years ago. And so I'm a couple years into jujitsu, and it's easy for me to remember two or three things that I really loved about my first couple months of training. But when you're in the thick of it, it's so new and so fresh. So I was on Instagram and I saw Lisa post about how she was starting jujitsu and it was kind of scary. She's a therapist and she challenges her clients to do things that are difficult. And she took her own advice and jumped into jujitsu. I was really looking forward to an opportunity to talk to someone right in the throes of all the new to hear about what jujitsu looks like in their lives. My goal always with this podcast is to make the sport more accessible to all. And getting a buddy that's starting right along with you seems like a great entry into the sport. So I'm really thrilled that Lisa said yes. And here we are. Listen along as I talk to my friend Lisa. Welcome, Lisa, to the show. I'm so glad you're here. Yay. Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here. Okay, so for people meeting you for the first time, who are you and how do you introduce yourself? What kind of things do you do?

SPEAKER_01 2:43

I will get to that, but I do have to say something funny. I should have said this a second ago. Even the fact that you reached out to me was cracking me up. I was telling the people in my life, I'm like, somebody asked me to be on the jujitsu podcast, and they were all like, What? I was actually telling the professor yesterday I saw her, and she was like, it's amazing. But it's a it is a little funny to me, but here we are. I'm so I'm excited to talk about this. I love talking about this. I'm a therapist. I'm in Miami, licensed mental health therapist. Every time I say that, people are like physical therapists. No, I'm I'm in my office, and I work with a lot of young adults, teenagers, I specialize in eating disorders, I work with queer people. That's a little bit about what I do.

SPEAKER_02 3:25

Nice. What kind of things do you have for fun?

SPEAKER_01 3:28

Well, now jujitsu's on there. I have way too many plants. I even have plants in my office. I like to go walking, I like embroidery, but right now with the baby, it's not really happening. Things like that.

SPEAKER_02 3:41

Nice. Okay, so how did jujitsu come onto your radar?

SPEAKER_01 3:46

Okay, I can't really I can't remember exactly, but I do remember this goes way back. I was actually I had graduated college, and at that time I had like studied abroad. I was really coming into myself, trying new things, I had gone into like yoga and meditation and all the all the good stuff, and for whatever reason it really interested me. So, but I was too scared to actually go to a class. So I actually bought a DVD at the time. This is DVD Times, and I put it on in my living room. I'll never forget this in like my childhood home. We my mom still had it at the time, and I like padded the floor with all these pillows. This is way more than you asked for, but I'm just telling you, I love it. And I remember one of the first moves was to do like a roll, and I couldn't bring myself to do it. I was like, and I and then that was the end of it. Then I never like I didn't revisit it for until last year, and I was 36 at that point, and that was probably when I was like 21. Like a good 15 years went by from doing that DVD to like actually attending a class.

SPEAKER_02 4:53

I love that. So, what made you jump last year then to like try this thing out? Because you went from like pillows and padding and rolling, like on your own. I love the solo activity of home practice for a partner sport.

SPEAKER_01 5:06

I was too scared to go in person. So I was like, I got some like, I don't know, jujitsu 101 DVDs or something like that. What made me do it last year? So a few years ago, I was at my little cousin's graduation, and somebody like kind of related, not like you know, one of those my my cousin's stepsister. See her at a family party, and I had been telling her, like, I really want to try, I really want to try. And she had encouraged me, come to our gym, there's a women's class, blah, blah, blah. I still was too scared to do it. And then last year I had class pass, and there was like a one-time class. So to me, that was pretty low commitment. I was like, okay, if I go, if I hate it, like I just never have to go back again. And then also, this guy who was doing my headshots at that same time is he trains and he was telling me, Come on, go, go, go. So one day I was just like, you know what? If I think about this anymore, I'm just never gonna go. It was like within the arm, like, you know what, screw it. I just signed up for the class and I went. And that's not the gym that I attend now, but they were very welcoming, and I was glad that I like finally jumped in. Yeah, it's there's a lot of people. I could be talking about that, but I'll wave because I I I don't want to just like overpower with all the things I want to share.

SPEAKER_02 6:23

Well, it's all about you. My my big goal of the podcast is to make jujitsu accessible, and frankly, just finding a class and thinking, like, what does a warmup look like? I remember we had a women's class I would go to at first, and we would there was like two or three of us, and we would do moves, whatever, whatever. But then there was a follow-up class, like a mixed gender class after that was much larger. And all this the first time going to that class and seeing everybody do the warmups, I didn't know how I could like roll, but not like the right way. I didn't know how to shrimp, and I'm like, all these eyes are gonna be looking. I just remember panicking, thinking, just get across the room as fast as you can and don't look like a fish out of water, like literally flopping around on the ground. And so it was just the idea of warming up could be scary, not even to mention then I would have to be with a partner and doing things. So I I feel that, but also that's a huge barrier, like I said to so many. All the eyes on me. What are people going to think? And how many times will someone actually like point and laugh? It's like all those like nightmare things we grow up as children, but never, I've never had those experiences in real life, like a carry moment or anything.

SPEAKER_01 7:34

Right, correct to that. And that's something you know I talk about with clients, right? It's like there's, you know, your anxiety, your mind tells you these things or fear. There's also this acronym. I didn't come up with this or anything. It's false evidence appearing real, right? Like, how many times has somebody actually been like, ha ha ha ha ha ha, you know, you look so it's never happened. But yet, like when I went to this gym, it was the extreme opposite of that. They were so welcoming. I had that I didn't expect that I didn't know anything about jujitsu culture, like zero. I didn't know how welcoming they were. So, of course, I get there, I'm super nervous, and then they're like, Oh, it's a gi class, and I'm like, oh my god. So then they're lending me, it doesn't fit right because I'm super short and curvy, and it's like I have to like fold it and fold the pants, and I'm like, oh my god, this is not what I thought I was getting into. But even like these teenage boys wanted to help me. It was so cute. It was a mixed gender class, but as you probably, as at least in my experience, the mixed gender classes, you're lucky if you get one or two females. It's like mostly guys. They were so so wonderful. My fear was there were a few fears, but one of the things, like the first couple classes that made me uncomfortable, but I was like, okay, keep pushing through, is that I was worried I was taking away from other people's like training because they put a lot of attention to the new person. Uh but everybody, and I would express that because I'm kind of like, you know, very vocal and open. I was like, Oh, I'm so sorry, like this is your class too. And they'd be like, no, please, like, we're so happy, welcome. They made me feel like so cool and so good. I was like, okay, great. And from there, I actually tried through class past, you could try like different gyms. So I went to about three in the area that were like mostly all men, you know. And all the guys everywhere were so sweet, so so sweet. Uh until eventually I found the women's class, and I've stuck with that just because I like rolling with women, and it's I don't know, a different energy, but not because there was anything wrong with rolling with the men, which I didn't expect that. To me, it was like so cool and such an odd experience.

SPEAKER_02 9:44

It's funny, I've heard it said two different ways. Like, once you get real into it, like years years in, people say, Don't break your toys because then you can't play with them anymore. So, like, you want to be careful with your training partner, but also the more toys you buy, the more toys you have. So, like by getting more people in the gym, it's more opportunities to roll. And especially after being in the same community for so long, you learn like, ah, that spider guard guy. Uh, she always does single legs. Like, we all kind of have our flavor. So when someone new comes in, you're like, I wonder how they're gonna move. That's like it's so fun getting to do like an open map somebody somewhere else because they don't know your secret move that you do 17 times. So I don't have one day.

SPEAKER_01 10:28

I'm whiter than white, white. I'm the whitest right now. I love her. Yeah. No, so I actually I did it last year for like a couple months where I was bopping around trying different gyms, and then I finally went to the women's class and I did maybe like 10 classes there, and then I got pregnant. And obviously, my gyno was like, Yeah, you're not gonna do that right now. And I was like, Okay, that's probably a reasonable thing, which I know you can keep training, but I didn't want to take any risk. And and she actually made a really good point. She's like, You're just gonna be nervous and ruin the experience for yourself. Why don't you just put it on pause and go back and not have any worries? I was like, okay, that's that's fair. So now I've been back a couple months and having so much fun with it. I love it, it's actually very out of character for me. So people in my life are like, You're doing jujitsu. And I'm like, I know it's I surprised myself that I'm enjoying it so much. I don't, I'm not one to be all up in people's space, but when you're rolling, I'm like, bring it on, girl. I don't care. Get in my space. I'm gonna get in yours.

SPEAKER_02 11:30

It's so funny when you can use your head as a post. Like the idea that I'm dragging my forehead either into their neck or we're like cheek to cheek and I'm smashing their. No, in my perfect world otherwise, would I ever want to be that close to somebody and like feel stubble, like and not think it's weird at all. I can feel their heartbeat through their skin. But when when I roll technique practice feels a little bit more vulnerable because it's kind of slower and purposeful. But anything goes, I feel like during the live rolls, I don't think of any closeness as being uncomfortable, which is so strange.

SPEAKER_01 12:05

I know I'm the type of person that if somebody's too close to me in line, I'm like, why are they so close to me? But when we're on the mat, you know, like all of a sudden, you know, we're put paused and our legs are intertwined and we're looking at the professor, and I don't think twice about it. You know, it's just so much.

SPEAKER_02 12:20

I have a friend even that I so I teach and I have a partner teacher, and I just even said, like, oh, we're all barefoot, and she's like, ugh, all those feet. I was like, I can't even that's like such a beginning-entry part to it because you're like, yeah, but I can also like see their toes next to my head. Sometimes you're really, really close to other people.

SPEAKER_01 12:41

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's that's so funny. I don't know. It's a different, you're like in a different headspace, none of that matters there.

SPEAKER_02 12:48

So there's a part that you started training, you found a couple classes, you got your toe wet, toes wet, and then you took a pause. And again, some women train through pregnancy, some women don't. I've heard of some not their first pregnancy, but later on they might. It really is like anyone else. What is your comfort level? No one's making you do whatever or look on you. What was it like then when you're like, okay, I went through that, I grew a human, it's amazing. I want to get back to all sorts of things. Did you look at jujitsu through a different lens? Was it excitement then to be like, yay, now I'm ready?

SPEAKER_01 13:26

Different in the sense that I guess there's an added emphasis on wanting to have something for me. Before, you know, before having a baby, you don't have to think about that. Everything, you know, of course, I'm married and I have a career, but you're like you don't have a kid, you know, it's very different. So now that I have an almost seven-month-old, everybody tells you, like, you know, make sure to not just burn out. I can't losing the words for it right now, but like, take care of you, basically. Um, so I was really excited to get back. I've I often tell people, like, my goal is to one day like go to a training, like me and my little girl. I think would be so cool, and like have her in it with me. So as soon as I was done breastfeeding, I was like, I'm going. And I actually I lie. I hesitated again. One of my hesitations going in was my body size because I'm in a bigger body, and you don't see that too much in the sport from the little exposure that I had. At least where I was going, I'm like, everybody is like on the smaller side, and then after having a baby, you tend to be even bigger than where you started, you know, which is fine. But I was like, oh crap, like, what if I'm really uncomfortable? I am really uncomfortable on my body, my body's changed. And luckily, my therapist challenged me on that. And I was like, I'm just gonna go. And also, shout out to the coach professor, Natasha. She's so sweet and like really never has made me feel any sort of way. If I need a modification, she's like, Okay, we have two different body sizes, how can we modify this? Like, she has made it such a chill, warm, like inclusive environment that I never feel like, oh, I shouldn't or can't do this because of my body size. She made she's like, Okay, yeah, that's the point of the sport, Lisa. Like, guys don't think about that. It's you know, so she challenges me on that, and I and I love it, and I need that.

SPEAKER_02 15:28

There's some really cool Instagram, like I always think accessibility. Like I'm reaching out to an online community, some people I meet in the wild because we want to find where we belong. And there's I've had a chance to interview some really cool people, like Tori O'Neill Strong, she's in Florida, she runs Mighty Dames, it's a group for heavyweights, and it's international, so she is super awesome. Um, Brutal Viking is in Southern California, and she's really embraced size and heavyweight, and she's a black, she got her black belt in like seven years. So she's been amazing. Mom's looking to be training and all that stuff. Like I said before, jujitsu mom, the jujitsu mom. She's fantastic. There is a camp. Jody Shields does bodied jujitsu. So she'll do day-long events. She did one in Southern California, she has another one coming up East Coast this summer where it's focused on all body size acceptance, and it's primarily hubbed towards again, that size inclusivity. And so, yes, and like what a sport to be in, because we use all that we are. We're I've heard it said like a person that's really flexible is not gonna hold back that. A person that is really strong, that's one of their strengths. And so we have the body that we have have, and each one has its positives, and what how it can help us positively work in this sport. It's really cool. I love that about jujitsu.

SPEAKER_01 16:58

Yeah, and I I mean, that's a lot of the work that I do. I I told you I specialize in eating disorder, so I work with body image, disordered eating, and I very much practice from a weight-inclusive, body acceptance, anti-diet lens. So it's really had me like put it into practice. I'm like, okay, here I am in this sport, like, talk about exposure. What would I tell a client to do? You're gonna do it, Lisa. And um, and it's cool how it's all framed in like the context of just how does it work with the sport and the differences in bodies without any negativity or stigma, just very neutrally. Like, okay, if somebody's bigger, this, that, or the other, and I'm like, okay, cool, we're doing it.

SPEAKER_02 17:45

And I think to say that there are certain things that will lend itself better, like some moves are better than others for different body frames. And it's kind of like we are our own paintbrush. I'm not going to use a watercolor brush for like painting posters because it will get the job done. It's the most not the most efficient. Just like I know that I'm barely five feet tall. So I'm not going to be playing some of these long-legged grasshopper games because that's just not where it works for my body. Doesn't mean I cannot. I just have to use and adapt in a different way. I love that. Here's the goal of this technique. How are you going to make it work for you? And if you don't know, we'll give you lots of ideas and try it out and see if it's something that you find yourself falling into. And sometimes you can find yourself playing a game that you're like, I never thought I was gonna be a Spider Guard player. And now look at me.

SPEAKER_01 18:39

I never thought I was gonna be able to do an arm bar. And then she modified it for me, and I was like, I felt so good when I got that arm bar. I was like, oh, I didn't think that was in the cards for me, honestly. Because when I saw her do it, I'm just like, my body's very different. I don't know that my body can do that. And here I am being able to do it. And it's interesting. The you know, the professor talks about like she's like, you know, I have shorter legs, so what works for me? And then the other day I was rolling with a girl who's really tall in her spider guard. I was like, whoa, girl, you are tall, you know. So it's just fun to see it. And to yeah, see it from a neutral lens, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 19:16

So how you've been training for a couple months now, you're jumping into the classes. What does training look like you on a weekly, monthly basis? Where would you like to see yourself going with that? How is it being how is it incorporated into your life? How's that going?

SPEAKER_01 19:30

So it's my Thursday night, like on the calendar, Thursday nights. I go to jujitsu, and then it's twice a month on Saturdays. I would love to be getting in more. Now that summer's coming around, I'm like, okay, maybe I can try to get to some more classes since there isn't traffic and work tends to slow down in the summer. People are on vacation, so they're not coming to therapy as much. But just because of the baby, you know, it's hard to get some, to get more classes in at the time.

SPEAKER_02 20:00

I feel like when I first started, well, I should say first started, I still feel the pressure. There are some folks that are in the gym six days a week, and I feel like that pressure of, you know, the keeping up with the Joneses. I'm like, I want to get better. They're learning a new thing every night. I should be here every night, but holy cow, if it takes me 45 minutes to get to class, I go to class. If I stay for one, if I stay for two, then it's another 45 minutes home. That's an hour and a half just of travel. If I'm working, if I I have three kids. So I was gonna ask you that. Yeah. I'm in a co-parenting situation, so it's like in every other week. Kind of because they don't kind of a long story. It's like you can't ever really turn off that part of your brain and sports games and things like I can it's that visual of you know, family is like the big rocks and then in a jar, and then work is the smaller pebbles that fill in, and then you have like self-care, like am I eating and sleeping? Those kind of meat have priority in there. And then I fill in jujitsu. How does it look? Sometimes I have more room for sand, and sometimes there's very little room for anything at the end of the day. So I'm showing up to the best that I can now, and that's okay. Am I going to get my black belt in six years? Absolutely not, and that's okay. What belt are you? I have a blue belt, and also I've been injured. So I have not been on the mats in like six weeks and losing my marbles. But here I am still talking to people about all their cool training. And I'm just like, I love it. Tell me about class.

SPEAKER_01 21:40

Yeah, just like a couple weeks ago, I was, you know, it was Thursday. I'm excited, okay. I'm gonna get to class, and the baby was having a really bad day. And I was like, I can't, I can't go. I need to be home with the baby. Um, and I'm glad I stayed behind because it was like a two person job. She was had she was having a fin. And I mean, she's little, what do you expect? She's teen. Breathing, her stomach hurts, all the things. But I would love to get to a point where I can go twice a week. Eventually, maybe when she's a little bit bigger, three times a week. But like you were saying, you know, the gym that I found that I love in the women's program that I love, it's actually not the closest one to me. There are a lot of gyms that are closer to me, but I'd rather drive. It's not horrible, but I'd rather drive to that gym.

SPEAKER_02 22:21

So I like the idea of the longevity of this sport. So many people I've talked to or have been training seven nine, seven years, 12 years, 20 years. I'm not looking to crash and burn. I don't want to have all the injury. Mine was like a freak injury, but I don't want something from overuse or something I'm not taking care of. If I want this to be sustainable, I have to be able to digest it in chunks. And so, yes, could I push harder? But then I'm sacrificing time with my teens. They're not gonna be in the house for much longer. And so that's something I have to take. I know my oldest graduated from high school last week. Oh wow, so exciting. It's a new chapter for him. Oh, congrats. That's a big deal. Is he going to college? He'll he'll stay local, which is nice, which I think I like. Hopefully, I can get him in the gym. He's he was a high school wrestler. I always say he's like the antithesis of anyone I would ever want to train with because he's 18, he's strong, he can wrestle, but he doesn't quite know jujitsu and he likes to do things that are surprising to see how it turns out. I'm like, you are going to snap all my lists if I work with you. I will not, but there's guys at the gym that will just be perfect.

SPEAKER_01 23:34

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That'd be cool to bring him in.

SPEAKER_02 23:37

Okay, so how does your perspective as a therapist then enter into your jujitsu? Do you find that you can leave your therapist hat, or do you feel yourself using some of the strategies? Sometimes my life mixes in a way that I don't expect, and other times I'm able to kind of compartmentalize.

SPEAKER_01 23:55

It's a good question. Yes and no. I yeah, I not that I'm going around life with my therapist hat, trust me. Like when I'm not working, I'm just I'm not thinking about, I don't know, therapy-related things. Although it's hard for me sometimes to term, it's become part of who I am, you know. It's like it's it's part of you. So when I'm there, what I do love about being there is I'm generally not thinking about other stuff. Like I'm so focused, which is also surprising because I usually need music to like do anything active, but there's not music playing and I'm fine. I'm really into it. So every now and then I'll think about like, oh, I hope the baby's okay, you know. But yes, in that, like I mentioned, I do feel empowered being there because as therapists, right? Like we're just humans, so sometimes we tell clients to do things and we're not actually doing them ourselves. Silly example of like sleep hygiene. My sleep hygiene sucks. Can I talk to somebody else about sleep hygiene? Yeah, of course. Am I practicing what I preach in that? Definitely not. So it does feel good to be in a space where I am practicing what I preach. So there's a little bit of that. And as a therapist, you know, I'm like probably a little hyper-aware of my thought process. So I see the thoughts, you know, and I hear the thoughts, and I know what some of the thoughts are. And I I have tools, you know, they've become part of my life of like, okay, you know, self-compassion, the ultimate tool is talk to yourself as you would talk to your best friend. So that's something I can lean on. So it's a roundabout answer to say yes and no, you know, like it's it's become a part of me, but I'm also like not being like a therapist, I'm just like a girl rolling.

SPEAKER_02 25:43

I think the interesting thing about jujitsu is that there's so much failure that you I fight fail 9,000 times more than I succeed. And sometimes the failure is just understanding what the coach is saying, and you're like, I don't know how to fall in the right direction. How am I possibly going to master this technique? Because as a I'm not even doing the thing, I'm just helping the person do the thing, and I'm still messing up. I'm a mess and thinking that way, but there's so many opportunities. You think, Mo, oh, I might get tapped, but I'm really challenging myself to learn through those experiences and like letting it go. It's such a good humanity piece that you just get in very, very concentrated form. We're not spreading out these life lessons over years. They're like 37 in a 20-minute period.

SPEAKER_01 26:36

We're just gonna do it quick for real. It's a practicing humility, right? Because you look so silly a lot of times, or you don't get the move, or like you said, they explain it to you, and you're like, Okay, okay, I got it, I got it. And then you get partnered up and you're like, I don't got it. I don't know what to do, you know, or you do one thing, you're like, Wait, what are we supposed to do next? So at this point, when she's like, you know, any questions? And I'm like, I'm sure I'll have a question once I start. Like, and then it's patience because you know, there's like we we you know what you want to do, but yet you also are training your mind and body to do it in unison and do it with somebody else. It's like you can't just study it like something else, and like, okay, studied it, got it. It's the practice and the practice and the practice. And I'm not somebody that's ever been into a sport, so I guess I mean, so somebody else is like, yeah, duh, like that's how ballet works or whatever. No, I've never done like a sport, I'm not a sporty girl. I mean, I did it when I was younger, but it's it's yeah, you gotta be patient with the process, and I'm not the most patient person, so there's that lesson in that too.

SPEAKER_02 27:45

Yeah, my ego has been my biggest challenge because I should know better. I expect myself, I have been doing this longer, I'm stronger, like whatever the reason, and I still get tied up, and it's so frustrating. Like it reminds me, like you talk about being new to the sport. I picked up the banjo like in my late 30s. I am, I mean, I'm not good. Like it, I never had played an instrument ever before, and it was so frustrating. And the guy would be like, oh, just do blah, blah, blah, blah. I'm like, you're on step 17, and I'm on negative one. There's like a lot of things, and it's just do it. Just do it this way. I'm like, I can't. Both hands cannot move at the same time in different directions. I don't know what to tell you. I would like to, and I would just sweat. Like for the first year of those lessons, I would just sweat. And I'm paying someone to sit there and sweat, like in front of them. What am I doing to myself? But I remind myself, I teach four and five-year-olds. I ask my kids every day to do things that are challenging for them. And it feels the same way. If I cannot do it, how can I expect them to?

SPEAKER_01 28:50

Yeah. Yeah, that's what it's called exposure work, is what we say in therapy. You know, it's like doing the thing that you're scared of until your brain and body register that you're okay and that you're safe, and then it's not going to be as scary. You know, now when I show up, I'm not as scared anymore. But the first many a time, I was like, oh, here we are. I'm doing it.

SPEAKER_02 29:13

It's so funny. I do a lot with behavior, function of behavior, why we do what we do, what we can change in shape in order to get different outcomes. I look and I do a lot of observation. And it's so funny because I noticed, especially in the beginning of jujitsu, and in fact, in my banjo lessons, I did a lot of escape behavior. I'm like, if I just talk enough, because I'm a good yapper, then I don't have to look like a fool because we're never working. And guess what? If you don't actually practice in the confines of having experts help you, you're never gonna get better, especially when you're on your own. And it's really a hard reckoning of like, oh, I can be my worst like partner because I'm the one distracting myself.

SPEAKER_01 29:58

That's funny. You're talking about ego. I was just thinking about that. I'm like, you know, the ego. I don't think I I mean, of course, I'm human. We all have ego and things. In this, I've just kept the bar so low for myself, like like basement low. Just the fact that I am going and completing a class, I'm like, okay, we did it, great. And I have a lot of people in my I have a wonderful support system, and people that are have told me, Oh, I'm so proud of you for doing this for yourself, and that's so cool that you're doing it. So just going and thinking of them, I'm like, okay, cool. I don't expect to be good. I am probably the worst in the class. Uh maybe not, you know, because if a new girl comes her first time, I could be better than her, but um, I just keep it, keep this the the bar minimum for myself, and that helps me.

SPEAKER_02 30:51

I recently had to make a gym change because I moved and just upwards of an hour to get to a class, I'm like, I just can't do it. And so finding a new class, and there's a lot more like high-ranking females, like on Sunday. Sometimes I go, there'll be a purple, two or three brown belts, maybe two black belts, and I'm like, everyone knows more than me. Phew, I can just go and be me because I don't have the expectation to teach anybody. If anything, I always say I'm like the baby in the group, and everyone is moving my limbs in the direction they're supposed to go. And it's glorious. I love not having the responsibility of having to teach people because so much of my life is breaking down the steps and checking for understanding. And now I'm just responsible for me. So maybe that's the flip side of it too. It can be a double-edged sword for sure.

SPEAKER_01 31:37

Yeah, I like being the new person. Like there was a class recently on a Saturday where there were a lot of like purple and brown belts. And I, to me, I'm like, oh, I feel like I'm getting personal training in because they're all just like working with me and encouraging me to do this and giving me feedback. I love it. It's so fun.

SPEAKER_00 31:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:53

So, what has jujitsu taught you about discomfort? Do you feel like there are parts that are kind of like wonky, or because of that understanding of yourself and your availability to like learn new things, this discomfort, not even a consideration?

SPEAKER_01 32:13

No, I I guess the word that comes to mind for me is like funny. Like I it has it's just tell me how funny it could be. You know, like we have a lot of fun, especially being in an all-women's class, and it's just it's funny to me when we can't get it, or or we do something like that's not how that was supposed to be, or that was the wrong leg, or why is my arm here, and how much like you feel like the connection that comes with it, too. Like it's cool showing up with the same women every week and just feeling a part of the group is nice, versus like just going to the gym and like working out by yourself, you know.

SPEAKER_02 32:52

We talk a lot about jujitsu being such an interesting societal cross-section because we have people from like all ages. Some of my training partners are like 12 and 13 years old, and then I work with other ones that are in their 60s. I work with like stay-at-home moms, professionals that travel. We have kind of just a little bit of everyone, and it's really fun to get outside of my normal echo chamber because inevitably you find so much humanity on the mats.

SPEAKER_01 33:23

Yeah, I agree with that. Our class is mostly, I think, women in their like between 20s and 40s, but it is cool. Like, would I interact with like would I have crossed paths with them otherwise? I don't know. Because, like you like, we go to the same places, you know, we frequent you like you said, the echo chamber that we live in. Although I deal with all sorts of people in my work, but yeah, it's nice. I really love being a part of the group.

SPEAKER_02 33:48

Have you noticed jujitsu skills or experiences like bleeding into either professional or personal life? Or is this something as we like compartmentalize? Because sometimes it's made us kind of sit with the discomfort. I want to say discomfort, but like there is a discomfort when you're having somebody's like forearm in your neck or someone is laying across you. You kind of have to. I know I have to stop and think. Am I in immediate peril at the moment, or can I withstand this a little bit longer?

SPEAKER_01 34:23

I guess it has well when I put on my gi, I feel like a badass. I'm like, wow, check me out. And I love that because I always people are always like, Oh, you're so cute. I'm like, I don't want to be cute, I want to be tough, you know. So it does, I feel like that energy kind of sticks with you a little bit. You're like, oh, I could do that, you know, I can like grapple with other women. I guess that that we can surprise ourselves. Like, I would have when I tell you this is really out of character for me, it's really out of character for me, you know. So, like stay open. I guess it's kept me a little bit more open of like, oh, you never know, maybe you will actually like that. Because I would have not expected to like it so much. But here we are, and I'm really into it.

SPEAKER_02 35:11

Have you started inviting your friends to classes? I feel like I've always like, hey girls, we could go to this thing on Sunday. They're really fun and we all match and we roll around together. It's great.

SPEAKER_01 35:21

Not really, because it's already so like finding the right time for me to get there that it's like I can't, I don't want the like, I don't, yeah. Like I feel like that would have added like a stressor of like having to coordinate with somebody else. But I guess I should maybe see if they want to come on a Thursday or something like that.

SPEAKER_02 35:41

I think that speaks to I had a friend when I was a new mom told me the phrase of like don't shoot on yourself. Yes, like that was such a hard lesson to accept just because I should be spending more face-to-face time, I should be sleeping more, I should be creating more engaging activities for my newborn that's like still seen cross-eyed. Like, like there's so many things that we had these high expectations for ourselves. And I think, yes, could we invite friends? Yes, maybe our friends, this is not their jam. Maybe like I last year I was going to do a tournament on my birthday, and I was really nervous about it. And I ended up not competing because there wasn't no one else signed up. And I was not gonna just show up and get my I know I was so disappointed. But like my girls came by the house because I was gonna go to dinner and I was like, a little storm cloud, and all of a sudden they showed up on my doorstep and they had like confetti pop. They were all gonna go and cheer me on. They don't know anything about jujitsu and the idea of them like wandering around the convention center, and then there's like the check-in area where there's all these like nail clippings on the ground because people forget to cut their nails short enough, and they were gonna go and watch me do my little I say my little thing, do my thing. Yeah, meant a lot to me, but but they're not jujitsu girls, but they can be like fans of it. They listen to the podcast, which is funny because they don't know what arm bars and guillotines are, but I'm like they they support me in their way, and that's really fun.

SPEAKER_01 37:15

Yeah, that's really sweet. You know, I the friends that I think would be interested are male friends. Like, so the guy that did my headshots, he needs some video for me for work. He's his great name is Alex. He's you know, when I was also like hesitating about coming back, I would text him and he would like just encourage me. He became like my little jujitsu cheerleader. It's funny. Um, I've met up with him to take a class. I don't have any girlfriends that are, I think it would be their jam. And I'm not gonna lie, I'm kind of okay with that. I kind of like it being my own little thing right now. Like I'm sure once I had a friend there, I would probably love it because I I'm very social and an extrovert and it would be a fun thing to connect over. But I'm kind of cool, just like it being my thing for the time being, I guess. That could change. And maybe it's because I'm a new mom and it's like I give so much that I'm like, this is my thing. Like I feel protective of it almost like let me do me. So yeah, that's where I'm at.

SPEAKER_02 38:12

I love it. I love the sport because yes, you're there's a community piece and like the competition piece. You are the only one on the mat for you. So, like, we can take in all the words of encouragement, we can hear the coaches, but at the end of the day, it's like, what am I made of? What how have I grown and what can I do in this given moment? And there's something, like I said, that that's super empowering. It's like, it's me. I did it. It's not with the help of others, it's I showed up to class.

SPEAKER_01 38:40

I the other day I got an Americana submission and I felt so good. I'm like, I did that. Like, that's amazing. I didn't think I could do that. But yeah, we're we're getting there. It's I do sometimes get a little bit frustrated, impatient in that when I'm grappling, like I get frozen. I get in my head of like, okay, what do I do next? And that's you know, the practice and the life lessons that I'm learning of take it slow, of learning the moves and integrating the moves. And I want to just have them already. I want to be able to get it, but in the moment I'm like, oh wait, what did I learn? How do I do this? So that's you know, so when I do do it, it feels really, really good. That was my point. Now I'm curious to see. I think when something you had asked me, you know, how it's affect me as a therapist. The jury's still out on that. I I'm curious to see. I will like kind of in the in the vein of like surprising myself of being so into it, and you know, also what your body's capable of, things like that, which I had kind of learned that lesson with yoga in the past of like thinking I couldn't do a move, and then I get it, I'm like, okay, like it was my head getting in the way, not my body. Um, I feel like that's maybe bleeding into my work a little bit of like wanting to push a little bit more, like, no, just give it a try, jump into it. But I'm not sure yet because it's still too soon to tell. So I think it that that's an interesting one. You had me thinking with that one, like, oh, I wonder how that will impact me as a therapist. Because they're all parts of ourselves and it's all connected.

SPEAKER_02 40:14

Oh, definitely. Like when we started the episode, you had said, like, even before you introduced yourself, you're like, I got asked to be on the Jujitsu podcast, and we were all surprised or whatever. We're gonna feel inside. Yeah, yeah, but also sometimes we forget what beginner us looks like. I always tell myself as a teacher, this year I had three-year-olds start my class because we took them even younger. So most of them were most of them were five, a couple of them ended the year at four years old. It is a very different experience on day one of class versus day 180. And sometimes, just like labor, we all hear about women and you forget about those pains in the beginning. I wanted to talk to you at the beginning because all of those feelings are new, and you've gotten a chance to like that. You I would say brave because we're all brave, stepping into any new thing, stepping out of our comfort zone to try. What advice do you give to women? They're like, ooh, I would love to try it, but the butt can be for all sorts of reasons.

SPEAKER_01 41:14

What would you say to a newcomer? Get out of your head, don't listen to your head. I had somebody reach out to me on Instagram that was saying like that they're thinking about it, they were debating it, blah, blah, blah, dah, dah. Uh, you know, body size was something they were worried about. And I instantly voice noted them like, you are fine, go do it. Trust me, you will not regret it. If anything, you will regret not going. So, yeah, a lot of times what really gets in our head gets in the way is some of our own fears. And the solution to fear is often tackle it. It's not so simple to do it, but eventually, you know, we do have to take that step. And you'd be surprised. Like, again, I have been blown away by how welcoming the community is. I think that's the coolest thing. Even I had that reel that blew up, and I got so much love on the comments. Of course, there's a few haters, there's always gonna be a few haters, but it was so cool like how many people were just like cheering me on. And that's that's also been my experience at every gym that I've been to. They've been really sweet.

SPEAKER_02 42:23

I would, in my altruistic view, I would love for all gyms to be inclusive and friendly and clean. I would love all of all the like really major points, but I do know that there's some out there that maybe not might not fit that same description.

SPEAKER_01 42:39

And so luckily I haven't come across those.

SPEAKER_02 42:42

Yeah, but I I would to think that everything's perfect would be very much to Pollyanne of me. But the words of like, if you happen to strike that unlucky dice and find one of those gyms, just know there's 15 more that are amazing. So I hope, hope, hope that people don't take their first exposure that might not have been ideal and expect all of them to be like that. There's so many opportunities. And if you don't love this one gym, there are it's such a popular sport these days. There's so many different ones to try out. Try out a different class, try a woman's self-defense class, try out, you know, just go pop in. I had a gal, she's in Florida, uh, she started jujitsu at 71. And goodness, that is so cool. She is so cool. I love Martine. I wish she was my best friend. We just live on separate coasts, but she's she'll try out a bunch, and she is a seven-year-old strong woman. But she said she can tell immediately by the vibe when she tries out a class because our gym, she had started one, but then it closed. And so for a couple months there, she was looking for a new one, or she'll find ones on vacation to train at. And she's like, I can tell immediately walking in. And if I don't feel like it's going to be a safe spot for me, she's like, Thanks for the information. I can come back later or whatever the case. Like, we don't have to stick around. Life's too short for that. Like, if you don't feel comfortable or Safe or whatever. There's so many to choose from.

SPEAKER_01 44:03

I'm so glad you're saying that because you know I have this much experience. And maybe I've just gotten really lucky, hopefully. So yeah, I'm glad that you're you're putting that out there because of course it's not so black or white. And on the same note, what I did tell this person that reached out to me is go to a women's class. I think you'd feel more comfortable starting with all women's and then see where it goes from there.

SPEAKER_02 44:25

Yeah, I jumped into women's class in the beginning. I had a friend, my boyfriend got me into it, but he liked I went into the women's class again. There were three, four women. It was fantastic. Then when I would go to the mixed class later, he was always my buddy. He was a brown belt. And so I always called him my emotional support brown belt. He was always my partner. He has a friend, Jenna. And so then she started doing the women's class and I would work with her. And so it was just nice to have like a constant that I knew. For me, the barrier of finding a partner felt really scary. It felt like being picked last a kickball. And so for me, get I don't know. So having someone to automatically work with really was a safe space. Going to the body jujitsu seminar and having it be all women to see, you know, 60 women on the mat that were all willing to work with me was just such an experience. And now I feel comfortable going to other ones. I mean, well, I say comfortable, but like the first first time of anything, I still kind of shake a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 45:23

He's always a little nervous when you go somewhere for the first time.

SPEAKER_02 45:27

I find no gi is nice because I don't know what rank anybody is. And so there's a little bit of less pressure. I'm like, if if I just get walloped or whatever, I'm like, oh, they're just a purple belt, brown belt, black belt. They must, they're high over above me or whatever the case is. So it doesn't feel so.

SPEAKER_01 45:47

That's funny. So right now the class is gi, but I actually was telling they outed me yesterday of like Lisa wants to ask you to do a no-gi class. I'm like, I don't want to be the new girl that's like making suggestions, but it would be fun to be able to also like do some no-gi as well. Just because I have a love hate with the gi. Like, I love it. I feel like a badass when I put it on, but sometimes it's annoying in class. You're like, oh, in the belt, and you're just like, I just want to take this off. So yeah, we'll see. I think she she was very open to it and to incorporating it. So I'm excited for that.

SPEAKER_02 46:18

I I love it. I love my home was in a gi because that's I had like a karate background in my eight, my late teens and twenties. So being in that uniform felt very comfortable, and it slows down jujitsu a lot by having those grips. Then you go to Nogi and it's like you just kind of roll around on each other. It's a very offensive game that I just was not used to. But at the new gym, my schedule worked out where going to Nogi classes was much more between game schedules, was just basically the only option. And so you're like, wow, this is such a different world. I always say they're cousins, not siblings.

SPEAKER_01 46:58

That's funny. I did Nogi with all men at a gym nearby and had a lot of fun doing it, but it it'll be interesting to see what the how it feels differently with in a women's class, because there were two variables there, right? Nogi and all men. So we'll see. It should be interesting. I'm excited for it.

SPEAKER_02 47:21

Yeah, there's so many possibilities. So as we start wrapping up our time, what does that your future in jujitsu look like? What do you see? Do you see one a couple years down the road? What would you like to? It's always like you get that bug. It's like, I want to be in it. But I don't know, some people might be like, mm, this is super fun, but at the end of the season, I'll be done or whatever.

SPEAKER_01 47:41

I'm a person that like gravitates to like it's like programs or systems, you know, like even like academically, I like did everything, you know, followed through into a career. Like when I was younger, I would, you know, train for a triathlon or a half marathon. Like, so this is my like I've been looking for my new version of that, and I found it, you know. So I I'm committed to staying in it for you know, foreseeable future. Hopefully, I don't have, I don't know, get an injury or life gets too complicated, but I I want to I want to get to higher belts. It's probably gonna take me some time given the baby in life, but that's okay. I'm not in a rush. Yeah. I I I would love to move up. I would love to one day get the baby into it. I'm excited for a feature in it.

SPEAKER_02 48:32

Yeah. And I I love when I was younger, I was very belt motivated because that's what I had time for in my life. I was working, I was going to school, but really my free time was mine. And so I could spend, you know, five, six days on the mats because that's what I had the capacity for. And now that I'm older, I can't be the same belt motivated for a variety of reasons. And it's really nice. Like I always say, if I had to stay my current belt forever, I'd be super excited. I would, I always call them like non-stripe victories, like the time that I can show up to class and not worry about who's gonna pick me as a partner. The first time I get into a role and somebody tells me, Wow, that was a really clean technique. That feels really good. Or my coach, he's he's kind of a man of few words. And so if he comes over and says you're doing a good job, I'm like, I did it right.

SPEAKER_01 49:26

Yeah, yesterday we had like a little beach hang, and the coach said something like, Oh, because I trust that you girls like know enough. I'm like, I don't know anything, but I appreciate you saying that. Like, you know, so like little things like that feel good. Like, oh, you think I know some stuff? Wow, wow, that's me.

SPEAKER_02 49:46

I love like my big thing was a the partner picking. And the first time I went to class, I found a partner. I was like, yes, and someone there we had an odd number, so someone asked to join our duo to make it a group of three. It felt so like someone chose to work with in my group. It's just it was a really exciting feeling because and how do you quantify that? It's not like on my checklist of things that I thought I needed for validation, but so funny.

SPEAKER_01 50:13

I don't get in my head about that, but sometimes I do get in my head of like, am I a boring person to like grapple with because I don't know enough, you know? They can't like so I'm like, and I get stuck, and then I'm just like holding it, like, okay, what should I do next? So I'm like, oh, is this boring for them? But then I'm like, okay, stop that, Lisa. That's silly. And like, this is like a few seconds in their class, and also people learn by teaching, so like there's that to it, probably you know, can benefit them as well. That I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 50:42

It's been nice to look to like the purple belts and brown belts as those role models. Because like on Sunday, we have like a warm woman's workshop, and when I see black belts, brown belts in the student role, and they are learning. I'm sure these they're we're going over things, I'm sure they know, but to see them with as intense focus and being in the game and running through them thoughtfully, it really reminds me. I guess when I was younger, it was like a much cockier time. It was like I already fling fling, I already know this. And so why do I have to do it again? There's like zero eye rolling. I and it's really fun to see them also asking questions, refining their game, really taking that into consideration to grow. It's very motivating for me to remind myself just how far I have to go. And it's okay to keep learning and reviewing and refining.

SPEAKER_01 51:36

Yeah, totally. Yeah, I don't think it'll do it over and over because I'm like, yeah, I already from last class don't remember how to do that. I'm like, once you do it where like I will remember, but like right off the bat, I won't remember.

SPEAKER_02 51:53

Even things like um doing it on both sides, like the question of if you're right hand dominant, do you do the techniques that you're learning only on that side? Is it valuable to switch over? And somebody the other day asked in class, and it's something I've always thought about, but I never even in wildest dreams would have thought to bring it up in class. But the coach is like, you should be doing his perspective was staying, practice, practice, practice your dominant sign. And then because things are always cyclical, when you feel super comfortable with it that way, like the third, fourth time it comes around, then flip over to the other side. But he said there are there is one school of thought learning everything on your weak side because automatically your brain, your dominant side is gonna pick it up anyway. So it just depends on can you imagine I always call it the kindergarten side, and like if I had to learn everything, the kindergarten side, I'd break my brain.

SPEAKER_01 52:48

A couple girls in the class are left-handed, and even when I partner with them, I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait, you're left-handed. You just like even when they're the one like doing the move. I'm like, wait, so which way am I rolling? And like, it's like my you just flipped it upside down for me. I'm gonna be in a fight on the street.

SPEAKER_02 53:06

I'm like, wait, wait, can you step in with the other foot? That's my better side.

SPEAKER_01 53:10

For real. Oh, it's been so nice.

SPEAKER_02 53:14

Okay, so you talked a little bit about what you do, and sometimes it's nice to have like a common interest. So if people want to work with you, I would love for you to talk a little bit about if you wanted to even share about life as a therapist. If people wanted to reach out to you, if you're like Matt, I don't even need to do that. I'm fine. I don't know. I like always like to give the guests a chance to shout out and do what they do.

SPEAKER_01 53:38

I mean, life as a therapist is life like any other, but I I have I feel like I have one of the best jobs and the luckiest girl because I'm privileged to, you know, get in people's stuff with them and people share some of their their hardest moments, their victories. I like I am very passionate about what I do, and I'm very fortunate for that. And how to find me? Honestly, the easiest is probably Instagram, Lisa Jimenez Therapy, and through there you can get to or Lisa Humanez Therapy.com is my website. I keep everything really simple because personally I can't remember when people have like mindful son this. I'm like, wait, what's her name again? You know, my Lisa Jimenez, look that up, you will find me. Although actually, there is a Lisa Jimenez in California, not that one. Lisa Jimenez in Miami, and they could always book an intro call and see if we're a good fit, or I'm happy to help people find other referrals if it's not me.

SPEAKER_02 54:34

That's awesome. Thank you so much for talking with me today. And we have to do a check-in and a couple vents just to see what you're up to and what jiu-jitsu looks like. Cool, cool. I'm so glad you reached out. Thank you so much. Yeah, this was fun. This week's shout-out goes to cyclical training. Sometimes the first time you hear about a technique, it's just for exposure. And the second time you're like, hey, I think I might have heard about that. I don't remember anything about it. And then, like, the third, fourth, fifth time it comes through, you're like, wow, I know it a little bit more. And then all of a sudden, one day you might know it well enough to use it in a role. So thank goodness things come up again and again and again. Thank you so much for listening to this episode. It was so much fun talking with my friend Lisa. She shared her experiences and she was so open and honest with it all. I love that the mat is welcoming to so many, and I'm thrilled to hear about the community opening their arms to work with her. Her thrills of success along the way remind me that every class is an opportunity to shine. So if you've never gotten to the mats, I encourage you to do so. And if you are on the mats, thank you for reaching out to be those helpers and those partners to make this sport as welcoming as we can. Don't forget to stay cozy, and I hope you remember to laugh a little bit on the mat, and I'll see you next time at Emily's Pajama Party.