EPP: Meet Jo (Just Stand Up; Rising above and overcoming challenges)

In this episode of Emily's Pajama Party, I sit down with my friend Jo to talk about resilience, healing, and the incredible strength it takes to move forward after life's most difficult moments. Jo shares her journey through Brazilian jiu-jitsu and how the sport has played a role in rebuilding confidence, finding community, and discovering strength she didn't know she had.

Please note: This episode includes discussion of sexual assault. While the conversation is not graphic, it does address sensitive subject matter that may be difficult for some listeners. Please listen with care and take the time you need if this topic feels personal to you.

If you or someone you know has experienced sexual assault, you are not alone. Support and confidential resources are available. In the U.S., you can contact the RAINN National Sexual Assault Hotline by calling 800-656-HOPE (4673) or visiting RAINN.org to connect with a trained advocate 24 hours a day.

Jo's story is ultimately one of courage, resilience, and hope. We are so grateful she was willing to share it, and we hope this conversation reminds listeners that healing is possible, and no one has to walk that path alone.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:04

Hi everyone, welcome to Emily's Pajama Party. My name is Emily and I'm so glad you're here. Each week I interview inspiring amazing folks to talk about their entry into Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu to make it accessible for everyone. Before we jump into today's conversation and the fun facts we'll learn along the way, I want to share a brief content warning. This episode includes discussion of sexual assault and healing after trauma. The conversation is thoughtful and not graphic, but the subject matter may be difficult for some listeners. Please take care of yourself and feel free to pause, skip, or come back to this episode whenever you're ready. As always, thank you for being here. We all find ourselves on the mat for a variety of reasons, and unfortunately, the world is a very unpredictable place. So let's pop into today's episode, talk about ways I can become a better grappler, and then I'll introduce you to my great friend. In my pursuit to become a better bluebelt and really be a formidable force on the mats, I am working on chaining my attacks. I often talk about jujitsu as learning to read. Right now I'm learning a ton of words, but I need to put them together, make sentences, just like I need to learn to chain my attacks in order to create a goal. So better grapplers will attack, they'll force a reaction and transition immediately to something. For example, you can go from a triangle to an armbar to an omaplata, the magic in the transitions, because there is always a counter to everything. So thinking about the big picture will serve me better than just one step ahead. And now for the meat of the episode, I'm thrilled to introduce you to my friend Jo. I met her at the beginning of the year in January at a seminar, and she was such an instant friend. She was funny and quirky, and on Instagram we share very wacky, like bug and bone like paleontology things, and she's just my kind of fun. And I was really excited to share her story. When I approached her, I was excited because she's done so much work, tremendous amount of work on herself to grow as a human, and really the physicality of it. She's swimming in ways that she's never swam before, she wrestles, she lifts weight, she is a wonderful no-gee gal. And I thought, what a great story for the personal investment she's created and the adventure her life has become. As we sat down, her story was much deeper than I anticipated it being. And it reminds me that I truly will never know the past lives and current lives really of my training partners unless I hear the story. I don't always get to because sometimes I'm rushing to the mat, jump on, we roll around, we goggle goggle, then we go home. And so the podcast has given me a chance to hear all the stories. Unfortunately, her story has been experienced by lots of different people, but her redemption, her rise above, her thriving, and just her love of the life she's created and the people she reps she surrounds herself is just such a thing of beauty. And I'm thrilled that she sat down to talk with me. Because, like I said, lots of people have had similar stories, and she is living proof that we do not let our past define us. So here, let me introduce you to my friend Joe. All right, Joe, welcome to the podcast. I'm so glad you're here. Hi, thanks. Good to be here. So, how would you introduce yourself to someone who's never met you?

SPEAKER_00 3:32

Jose, I'm Joe. I am a nature enthusiast slash quasi-environmental scientist. Not actually doing the science part, but doing the like regulatory compliance in my day job. Yeah, it's pretty fun and interesting, keeps me engaged with like the local wildlife and environment, all different aspects of it and environmental regulations. But outside of that, I just like all things nature, athleticism. Also, art, like I'm pretty, I'm not like into like different artists. The same thing as with jujitsu. I don't really follow specific practitioners or artists, but I appreciate it and I appreciate doing the thing. I'm more of a doer than a knower, if that makes sense. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:21

I think there's so many ways to experience the world. And I you strike me as a child that like jumped into the puddle instead of sitting back and watching the droplet call on it.

SPEAKER_00 4:31

Yeah, curiosity is uh it's it's a blessing and a curse, and I still have tremendous curiosity. I think that's what gets me into all the things.

SPEAKER_02 4:41

There was this really interesting podcast with Esther Perel and his name, John Huberman, and she was talking about curiosity, and her phrase that's really caught me was curiosity is the act of engagement in the unknown.

SPEAKER_00 4:56

Yeah, that's in a nutshell.

SPEAKER_02 4:59

I just love the knowing and the finding out, and I love the like the learning curve at the beginning because it's so fascinating. We could study like the flowers in front of us or big world stuff, or you write art, like getting a chance to experience in the part of it. That's really cool. Yeah. What does life look like right now on and off the mats for you?

SPEAKER_00 5:20

I like the thing I would say the most is my life is peaceful and fun and full of love. Like those three things, I feel very blessed that that's what my life is like at this point in time. It's not the life that I thought I was gonna have or I saw myself having, but it's everything I I want it to be. And to me, that looks like the best friendships. I have the most supportive, loving friends, like chosen family, and even like my family's very loving and supportive. Yeah, and I'm unmarried, no kids, and I get to do whatever I want. It's freaking lovely. Aside from making money, uh doing you know the normal nine to five work. It's just it's balanced, and there's always room for growth and um and curiosity to explore the unknowns, like we were talking about. Yeah, on the mats and off the mats. I've been dealing with some like cyclical health issues that I'm trying to figure out. So that's really unfortunately hindered on and off the mat training and different things that I like to do. So that's kind of been sucky the last year or so, but just trying to figure it out and you know, working through that, and that's kind of the the biggest hurdle I have in my life right now. Um I'm very again, very blessed.

SPEAKER_02 6:41

Yeah, I love it. So, like you've made it.

SPEAKER_00 6:46

Fun. You have all the good things. You know what? I I have that thought all the time. Like, I want it life. Like it's and of course, winning looks different from for everybody, right? But like I'm exactly where I want to be.

SPEAKER_02 7:01

So I learned to play the banjo a couple years ago. I always give the disclaimer and say just how bad I am. Like, oh, okay, I still appreciate it. My banjo has a name. No, it's better. Banjonio bandanas. Oh my gosh. I mean, that's too funny. Oh my gosh. So, so I so when I was playing Banjonio, so the whenever I would meet with my tutor, instructor, whatever guy, he would say, like, oh, have you been practicing this week? And as an adult, we're like really busy. I'm like, oh, this week was crazy because I had X, Y, Z. And then I'm like, next week I have to do better. And the next week was like, oh, new crazy A B C. Like, and every week I found I'm like, well, it's not gonna get any like less busy or less chaotic or whatever. I just have to find the time. But I feel like that's with health too, and just like as we get older in our bodies, we're always gonna have things come up, but what are we doing in the moment to like make the best of what we have?

SPEAKER_00 8:06

Like it's yeah, yeah. It's it's been like difficult. So, like when I can't actually get in and do the training because I'm not feeling well or or you know, whatever is going on. Um, I'm still making a point as much as possible to show up and take notes, at least watch. I do, I feel like I learn a lot from watching and maybe like taking notes or not taking notes. One thing that really helped recently, I forgot, I forgot what was going on at that specific time, but I was drawing some of the like techniques and or like different guards. So I was drawing those just using very basic. Is my notebook right here? My notebook is right here. So yeah, I have like very basic thought. I'm like, oh, my life drawing classes in City College like came in very handy. I love that. Yeah, trying to like obviously, you know, I'm asking my coach, like, did I draw this right? Are my key concepts and stuff like on point? Like, what did I mess up? So, like just finding those ways to still get in and make time for training jujitsu. Obviously, I haven't been able to like, well, not obviously, but I haven't really been able to lift or swim. We can get more into that recently. So haven't figured out a way to still incorporate those things in my life, but at least with training, I'm still trying to prioritize and make time for it, whether or not I can actually roll or or drill.

SPEAKER_02 9:36

So just and I think it's so important everybody has their own understanding and peace with it. Like I've been in my boot. I go tomorrow, crossing my no Wednesday, I go to find out if I need surgery or not, or if I get to start I know, then I'll start the rehab part, and I'm probably not gonna be live rolling for another three months, like active. I know, and so I haven't gone into class. I know, like so many feelings attached to it. So I haven't gone into class to watch yet. I needed, I felt like I needed space to like put myself together because I was I was really rough.

SPEAKER_00 10:11

So I don't even how did you injure it? I don't remember.

SPEAKER_02 10:15

So we met in January, but I heard it back in December. I you know, Tomanagi where you like fling someone over your head. Have you seen that before? So if it's really bad. Sorry, really bad with names. So here comes your like drawing, it'll look crazy. So I was working with my partner. That one is a single leg that hoists a person over. So I was working with him. I had to put both of my feet under his like armpits, and then I did this whatever, and I as I rocked back, I was supposed to like backward roll with him. So I was supposed to push him into a forward roll, and I was supposed to follow him so I would end up on top of him. So we would just like roll together. But when I did that, you let your feet pop out so you can come up and to mount, but my foot got stuck underneath that. That's right. Okay. And when he fell on it, like my big toe just basically touched, and I heard a lot of popping. I know I thought I heard a lot of popping, and I thought it was just like like knuckles cracking, but it was all the tendons tearing off my toe. So I didn't realize at the time I got an x-ray because my foot swelled, and they're like, uh, it might be a questionable break, just like take it easy for two weeks. And so I did, went to training in January, and then by late April, it still wasn't better, better. I was still taping it all the time, and it just I ran a lot, it was still achy. And then I finally got an MRI. Yeah, and I went to get the MRI, and the guy's like, What have you been doing? I'm like, everything, and he's like, Well, that's not great. And like, well, did I make it worse? He's like, No, they were already torn. And I said, Well, the boot doesn't come till tomorrow because I'm just gonna Amazon it because I'm not waiting for entrance. Can I go to class tonight? He's like, No, have you listened to anything I've said? Don't do that.

SPEAKER_00 12:03

Oh my gosh. So, yeah, it sounds, yes, it's such like a dagger to the soul when you hear like you can't be on the mass or you can't train. It's just once you once it becomes so deeply ingrained in your life and your day-to-day and your like mental health, like it's it's the worst when somebody tells you you can't train or you can't because of whatever you have going on. Like, even if there's like a fun event that you get to go to and you're like, crap, I have to miss class. It's always like that little like sting, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 12:32

Right, right. Yeah, it's not it's hard to do it all and feel like I'm getting the most out of everything, but that's that's another story. But we're we're living it. We're and I I guess the long the piece is that I know that jujitsu will be in my life for a long time. This is just one piece of it. Lots of people will get injured, but I also could get injured just like walking down the street, or I could trip on something in my house, and so I'd rather be doing something cool. Makes a good story.

SPEAKER_00 13:02

Yeah, I agree. So, how did you get into jujitsu? There was multiple things going on. I I think primarily at that time in my life. So I have a long history of sexual abuse, assault, uh, all of those things that many of us women have, and you know, uh men as well, it's just less talked about. And I just I always felt so vulnerable and unsafe. And you know, I had like watched UFC and stuff, and I I was just like, that looks fucking awesome. I want to learn how to do that. I want to, I want to feel that strong in my body, but I also smoked a lot of weed and drank a lot in high school, so like brain, brain isn't firing on all cylinders these days, so I don't really need to get hit in the head. So I was like, what can I do that's not striking? Okay, I'll try jujitsu, and it just it always just looks so fun. Um yeah, so I I finally conquered my fears and stepped on the mats at the first gym I went to, and the first I'll never forget the coach paired me up with a student, uh a child, to see, you know, like what I had, what kind of skill I was coming in with, and it was zero. And this kid proceeded to beat the living shit out of me, and I thought it was the most hilarious thing ever. It was just like, this is the best. I love this. This is so funny. I have a lot of work to do. I was hooked immediately.

SPEAKER_02 14:38

Yeah, I love, I love it's getting getting like my cheeks handed to me by like an 11-year-old. I'm like, that was fantastic.

SPEAKER_00 14:48

I don't know what you just did, but that's so cool. Yeah, I was like, it's this weird conflicted feeling of like, oh my gosh, I'm pathetic, and also like I'm so proud of you, child. Like, that was incredible. I want to be like you when I grow up. Like, it's this weird, you know, this weird mix of feelings. But yes, that's what that's what got me in there.

SPEAKER_02 15:11

I could just imagine the amount of like figuring out how to be safe in such a vulnerable sport because we're like all in each other's business and yeah, moving past it because you're we all bring our own story to the mat. And so you have such a history. Wow. I never also fun fact, like I did not know this is where the interview was gonna go. We kind of go in mind, and that's the point of jiu-jitsu. You show up as we are, and it's okay if we had a hard day. I won't say it's okay if we had a hard life. That I don't want to diminish anything, but we all are coming to the mat for different reasons.

SPEAKER_00 15:47

We definitely are, and like I had known through like repeated assaults and just so many different incidences of like you know, being very vulnerable and unsafe that my natural reaction nine times out of ten, especially if it was with somebody I knew, was like the freeze response or the fawn response. Um, and so I wanted like essentially like exposure therapy. I knew going into it it was gonna be extremely triggering and it was gonna take a lot of mental work to stay there and to keep practicing and and lean into the the fun and the joy as opposed to the the re-triggering. So it was like it was it was a psychological exercise for myself. Like, I don't want to freeze or fawn response if something slash not even not if when something happens again, because that's just how my life has gone. It's just gonna be a matter of time. And I don't want to freeze, I want to be able to fight back. Like, not that I'm gonna go looking for fights, but when the situation happens again, I want to know that I'm at least if I go down, I'm going down swinging. You know, I don't want to just like I guess this is what's happening and disassociate and let whatever happens, happens. Like, I didn't, I'm like, no, I've no, I don't want to do that again. So it was it was a psychological warfare, self-inflicted, and yeah, like of course it comes and goes, and yeah, it's uh it's still always a struggle, but less so, and happy to say, when things have happened since I got on the mats, like I didn't freeze, I actually stood up for myself. So yeah, which is kind of surprising because sorry, if you like when you train with men, it's so like you you already go in knowing that you're you know, like uh we're smaller women, we're like we already know we're weaker through lived experiences, right? And so to be faced with that day in and day out, like I'm not leaving jujitsu going, I'm a fucking badass, like I wish somebody would. I'm leaving going, oh uh first mission, if something were to happen, escape at all costs, escape. Don't engage if you can't, if you don't need to, get away, just get out of there. Don't even try to fight. But if push comes to shove and you are forced with no, like you have no other option, at least I know I'm not gonna freeze.

SPEAKER_02 18:26

So I definitely know when um my first gut, if there's space, I'm a flighter. Like I pew, I run. I just I go, and and that's just my I love that for you. Like the roadrunner. I just take off like too much. I don't know, I get myself lost a couple times. But it's just like I just go, but I've seen other situations where it's like, how safe am I in this moment? And I haven't said anything because I don't know, even even in just like weird social interactions. I've had people say some pretty awful things, and they're like, Why didn't you like other people like, why didn't you take anything back? I'm like, I didn't feel safe if I engaged in an argument, I didn't know how it was gonna turn. And I would rather someone say something awful to me than me getting taking it to the next level and seeing where it's gonna go. And I hate that. I I hate not being able to stand up for myself, but there's like a long-term plan here of survival.

SPEAKER_00 19:25

Yeah, yeah. A lot of people don't understand that, unfortunately. Yeah, sometimes the best reaction is to not react, even though you want to stand up for yourself or you wanna, you know, like let this person know that they're out of line, whatever the situation is, sometimes your best survival and your body knows is to not react and just let it go because you don't know how how much worse it's gonna get if you push back. So I definitely empathize with you on that one. I do wish I was a runner. I'm not I'm not saying I go far.

SPEAKER_02 20:01

You'll see me like 20 miles down the road. Marathon training does not prep you for that. This is like an all adrenaline ride. Adrenaline is key. Oh, yeah. Okay, so then that's so much to work through in the month. How did you find a space? Did you have to try out a lot of gyms to find space? Did you go with friends? Were you in women-only classes? What do you look for in a trusted gym? All of that.

SPEAKER_00 20:29

Um, well, I'm now at my third gym. The first gym I was at, I immediately um, well, I wouldn't say immediately, but like very quickly felt comfortable there. I remember right off the bat I was partnered with a new person and he was touching me. Like he was like a young guy and touching me very inappropriately. And I can't remember if I I think the coach just saw and was like, that's not okay. Because I'm like, I'm brand new, I don't know what's appropriate or what's not, but like I felt uncomfortable. But it was addressed, and like that it was a pretty quick development of a safe relationship with that coach and members of the team. So yeah, I felt pretty safe at that first gym, and as time passed that changed. I still felt safe with a lot of the people and stuff, but there like COVID happened, and I saw, you know, it in global events like that, you really learn who people are, and I didn't like what I saw to put it very simply, um, with a lot of that group. Some people obviously like, you know, you cling even tighter to those people. You're like, you're incredible. I want to keep you tight. But yeah, I ended up not going back there. And then at the next gym, I was at I just like I was older because a lot of years had passed. I was older, I'd been through more, and I think I just had less tolerance for like anything less than a completely inclusive environment, and it can't be male dominated, like there has to be a strong female presence there, and I didn't quite feel that. And then yeah, more time passed, and I was like, okay, let me try something else. It's kind of like a last ditch effort to keep me in the in the sport. So yeah, it takes a lot of trial and error to sum it up. That was long-winded. We don't have to use all of that.

SPEAKER_02 22:38

I think um I've heard from other guests. It was like, oh, my first place was amazing. And the second place was amazing. I'm just surrounded by amazing, which I am so happy for them. But I don't want someone to listen or be on this, you know, in a gym and saying, like, I this just doesn't feel right. I don't think this sport is for me. When you could have gone to Gymstown or you could have gone to an event and made a friend, and then you went back to their gym. There's so many opportunities for women, but I think it's important to hear all the stories because my life experience, again, is so different than yours. I'm gonna look for different things. I looked for like I don't want to get picked last. So for me, it was important for me to have a friend in the class when I went in the beginning that was the upper belt. So I knew that I could relax. And then I also knew that there was a safety part involved because we already knew each other and the boundaries.

SPEAKER_00 23:32

Yeah, no, it's super important. I think one thing that makes it so hard for like, especially women, we're like, we're naturally not all of us, of course. I'm not, I don't, we're not a monolith, but for a lot of us, we're socially conditioned to like not make waves and you know, just kind of accept what we're given a lot of times. But at the end of the day, jujitsu is this weird, uh what's the word, amalgamation of um community plus a business. So we're paying for a service, right? We're paying for to be in this environment. So we have to like kind of take a step back sometimes, like, oh, I really love these people. That's how you know I was an experience I had at one of the gyms. Like, I really love the people, I love the coach. In a lot of ways, there's so many things I liked about it, but I was paying for a service that I didn't feel like I was benefiting as much as I could have been from. So, you know, it's like it's like this weird, weird toss-up. Like, it's this like pretty cool community, but I'm also paying to be here and I don't feel like I'm getting my money's worth. So it's twofold, and a lot of times it's really hard to separate the fact that, like, or it's really hard to separate the community from the business aspect of it, or you're like the consumer, I guess, because we are the consumer, right? But we're not gonna go to Walmart and get like, you know, keep paying for shitty quality stuff, we're gonna, you know, not shop there anymore or something, you know, it's it's kind of the same concept.

SPEAKER_02 25:07

Well, we can understand if I had a bunch of friends and they had like a dog grooming business. I can use that because I only have a tortoise, so it's not my real life scenario. But it if I was like, oh, I have this shaggy dog, I need to consistently get its haircut because I am not able to get all the knots out by myself. I have to pay somebody to do it for me. And my friends do it, but they don't do a great job, but they're my friends, and when we're there, we can like hang out and talk to each other, but like after I get my dog done there, I have to take him to somewhere else to do it again. And it's really hard because you're like, I don't want to hate twice.

SPEAKER_00 25:52

So I can understand that could be very tricky, yeah, yeah, definitely. So, and I think um building safety uh back to like bringing it back to the safety aspect that we were talking about and like trust, like it takes time and that can be broken so quickly, you know, it's it's really hard. It takes constant communication. I think just being very upfront with your like training partners, and if they're not open to that, that's not the training partner for you. Like, if they're not cool with you coming in and be like, hey, I'm not feeling the best today, or like I'm just mentally not here. Can we take it a couple notches slower? Or if you want like more intense training, that's totally cool if you train with whoever else today, just being open and honest about where you're at, what your needs are, and having a partner that's receptive to that and able to like lean into it. That's kind of it's challenging, but I hope for everybody that they can find that. I feel like I have that now.

SPEAKER_02 26:48

Well, you you bring up such a good point. I think we see UFC, we see flow grappling, we see all these high-level events where these folks are the best of the best. You know, they are professionals doing it, and we're like, wow, their training must be so intense. If I want to get any sort of good, I'll never be professional, but like it, I have to put in that crazy level of effort to get there. And then you're like you hear around the corner like word on the street. Sometimes you might only go once or twice a week, or word on the street is you get really sick and it's okay to stay home because people don't want you coughing on them.

SPEAKER_00 27:23

Like, there's a lot that's that is a big pet peeve of mine. Like, I'll show up like on the tail end of when I'm feeling better, or like I'll mask up, and that's just to watch until I'm like feeling 100%. I'm not rolling, or if I have like a weird thing on my skin, the whole um UFC jujitsu, what was it? Not was it eight or nine? I don't know. The Mikey guy can never remember his name, Mush Medi or whatever I can't pronounce when he competed with fucking staff, like that was crazy to me. I'm like, did it did the competitor that he went up against, did he was he informed and aware of that? And did he consent to this? Or like I had so many questions. Like, to me, that is not okay, but they're professionals, right? Like, so if the other competitor agreed to it, then it that's a risk he was willing to take, and that's okay. But for the rest of us hobbyists, like I'm always like, keep can we keep it clean and like courteous? Cause we all gotta go to work at the end of the day. This isn't our job. Like, I don't know. I'm not trying to catch some weird illnesses.

SPEAKER_02 28:28

My kids at school, I'm always like, or I might actually it happens more at home. I'm like, can you just not can you just not get like I don't I don't want that? Yeah, oh the sport. Okay, so it's all that body stuff. I love it. See, I told you our conversation is just gonna go the way it does. So when we when I was asking you to be on the show, it was because you had I love the positive light that you bring to social media because some people can be, I mean, it's it can be really polarizing, right? We we can amplify all sorts of voices on there, and to see you with like a body body positivity and strength and how you're performing. You came from a place, and I don't know what that was, that now that feels so exciting because that's what we don't always see. We don't see the the child that I was, whether that's uh physically like the I might have not have been a club athlete, but now look at me go. Or I grew up in a really awful situation, and look at me now being able to be independent, capable, proud of myself. What a glow-up that is. And so was jujitsu part of that? Is that part of the change that inspired you? Is it just one of the options that came along with it?

SPEAKER_00 29:54

I knew from a very young age that like I wanted to grow up to be the adult that I wanted slash needed, and that wasn't necessarily an athletic person, but it was a very independent person. And I grew up playing sports and stuff when I was like really young, baseball and then gymnastics, but in high school and stuff, I was just kind of like, I'd rather be just getting my schoolwork done and then going and getting drunk and high and partying. Like, like I was still like, let me get the good grades and do the responsible shit, but I'm gonna go disassociate outside of that and just go buck wild. So I definitely wasn't being athletic in those years. And I remember like here and there I would start to get into the gym and just want to like lift weights and feel stronger, but it wasn't consistent. And then, you know, as time as time goes on, like more so in my 20s, I started running pretty regularly as like you know, I'm maturing and I'm like getting away from like wanting to be drunk and high every day. I'm just like, oh okay, like I can do these other things, and so it just kind of progressed from there, just always trying to be a little bit stronger, a little bit faster and running. I'm definitely not running anymore. I wasn't uh running properly with like the proper shoes and stuff before, so I have like knee damage. So yeah, it just kind of shifted into different things that I that I liked. It would be like working out at home or just trying to lean into different things to like continue to grow and evolve and do things that made my body feel good. And jujitsu just kind of became a part of that, but that was, like I said, like more of a mental like thing, self-induced psychological warfare, but also like the most fun and like childlike fun. And then jujitsu really helped me hone into the deficiencies of my body, I guess you could say, like different weird joint issues and um weak, like muscular weakness. I'm like, everybody is so much stronger than me. Like, I need to get stronger, and also my cardio is freaking terrible, but I can't run. So, what are my other options? So it just kind of like it helped me want to get stronger, more in tune with my breathing, and just overall healthier in my whole body, better conditioning, better mobility, huge. And then at simultaneously, I'm watching my mom really struggle with debilitating rheumatoid arthritis, and like she's most days it's she can't get around the house without a walker. And so I'm watching her body deteriorate, and I'm like, how can I take care of myself now? Because that, you know, I think it has a genetic component, so I'm like, that might be in my future. What can I do now to take care of myself now and maybe prevent that to the extent feasible? And also just get the most out of this now, if that does happen, you know, because disability isn't it's not something that only some of us are gonna face. If we have the privilege of growing old, we're all gonna have a level of physical disability at some point. So it's just it's just kind of a fact of life. So enjoy your body while you while you can use it, right? So I don't know, there's a lot of different factors.

SPEAKER_02 33:21

It kind of reminds me of investing. I've said it on the show before. It's like whenever you ask somebody when's the best time to start investing, it was five years ago.

unknown 33:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:30

But you're like, oh, oops, I'm glad I started that at 40, but here we are. But also, like index funds, they're not the sexiest, but over you play the long game, you put in a little over time, you start you know 30, 40 years, and it might go up a little, might go down a little, but overall it's going, you're riding the escalator upward, and then you end up ahead. So exactly you gotta. I am looking at what kind of body that I want to be living in when I'm 18. So I see like my parents and I see my grandparents, like the women in my family have always kept their brains, but their bodies don't always work the same because they I always say they're like bird-boned. They're like this really thin bone, thin muscle. I want to run around with my grandkids and I want to be able to give them piggyback rides, or heaven forbid something happened and I have to get everybody out in an emergency, or carry my own groceries in.

SPEAKER_00 34:30

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think you're completely right about like comparing it to index funds or really most investment stocks, or um it's I always say like so one thing about me is I'm consistently inconsistent. I really struggle with consistency. You know, some people they wake up at like 6:30 every morning and they're at the gym and they're doing this or whatever, like and that that is their day-to-day, and they are on it. Like it's clockwork for them. That's not me. But I'm still trying to meet those goals in different ways. I might show up to a 6 a.m. class, I might show up to 11 a.m. class. Like, I have like, oh, I, you know, I want to train three days this week, I want to lift four, whatever days those end up being, as long as I check those boxes to the extent feasible because life happens, things get in the way. And over time, like you are doing this, but you're gradually going up through time. And that's yeah, it's like I I completely get where you're coming from with that. And like I was saying, like, I want I want to be independent for as long as possible, and I don't want to have to rely on other people, and that means like you have to take care of your body, and it's funny because sometimes I have this thought, I'm like, oh, I'm I'm doing all these things to take care of my body for longevity, but I'm probably gonna get Alzheimer's because it runs in my family. So it's like one or the other, you're saying like the women in your family, they keep your brain, they keep their brains, but their bodies deteriorate. Like for mine, it's both. Like, I'm like, which one is it gonna be? I don't know. We're we're all gonna die some way, right? But um have you done much?

SPEAKER_02 36:13

I mean, bird walking, have you done much about Alzheimer research and things like that?

SPEAKER_00 36:18

I have not. I just know it runs in my family, and I'm pretty sure my dad has has the beginning stages.

SPEAKER_02 36:25

I guess if I had to say like the things that I've learned about it, which is not a lot, but I have a type one diabetic at home, and there is a link they're finding to diabetes and Alzheimer's, and it's a little bit different than the type one, it's more like type two. And so, like walking after meals has been like exponentially different, like helpful, or like they even say, like doing like 20 squats, like just something. And I so I was ad gestational diabetes with two of my boys, and I learned I don't want to say quickly, but I figured out if I didn't eat my broccoli but I wanted a cookie, I just had to go on a walk after dinner and I could get my blood sugar back into range, like in like 20 minutes. So, like little bursts of energy, you're like, Yay, cookie, because I'm gonna find a worker phone and make it work.

SPEAKER_03 37:13

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_02 37:14

That's helpful, and also like eating eggs, but I really think that body movement eating eggs, like do eat eggs or don't eat eggs. I yes, eat eggs, like eat a couple times a week, and you're gonna really help your brain out there.

SPEAKER_00 37:28

Okay, I eat probably too many eggs. It's my cholesterol tends a little bit high, and I'm like, damn it, I love eggs.

SPEAKER_02 37:36

You're like, but I'm saving my brain. I'll just give you more doubled eggs, it's fine.

SPEAKER_00 37:41

I didn't know that, but now I will use that as my motivator. But you know, I balance it out with oatmeal, so I think it's the choline in it.

SPEAKER_02 37:50

I it's one of the things in it that's supposed to be really good. Also, things like line dancing is really great for the brain, too, because it's a motor movement and you're trying to learn something. So those two things together, which basically is jujitsu, we're just on the ground.

SPEAKER_00 38:05

That's so funny because I am terrible at choreographing anything. Like, like if you're trying to teach me dance moves, I'm not gonna remember them, and I'm just gonna want to be like, can we just dance and have fun? Like, I don't want to learn the steps, but I always like I'm like, I would like to go to a line dancing class, but I'm gonna fuck it all up, and it's gonna, but it's gonna be a blast. So it's like a brain, a physical um mental brain game, just like jujitsu, like you're learning the memorizing these steps, and yeah. Just like jujitsu, so once trying to choke you.

SPEAKER_02 38:42

Yeah, that's not how you're in line dancing. Hopefully. It doesn't sound as fun. But wait, there if there's Americana involved, that could be more fun.

SPEAKER_01 38:54

Hilarious.

SPEAKER_02 38:56

So, what a wonderful. So, I like uh today is my first day of summer break, and I have like my little list of all the things I wanted to get done today. So I love that you have kind of it's not time blocking, but basically we're like the same thing. I'm like, what do I hope to accomplish over the week? What are my must-dos? What are kind of my areas? I don't know how it's gonna look day to day. And you're right, like sometimes it's a health thing. My workout today was crap. Like, I've been having some really solid ones, but my like anything lower body today was just so hard. But you know, like maybe I take tomorrow off. If I feel okay tomorrow, maybe I'll do I'll push rest day to later in the week.

SPEAKER_00 39:39

It's nice to have the flexibility. Yeah, the flexibility is super nice, and I I think it's it's essential. Like you have to listen to your body, like like we were saying, we're not professional athletes. You're like, uh, I don't know. I kind of I'm not a professional athlete, so to me, it's super important to listen to my body. If I'm not like performing well in my lift or you know, something's off, I'm on my period, and I feel like shit, and I got a migraine, like I'm not gonna push it. And I think it's just super important to listen to that as like hobbyists and honor where we're at, like push, but not too much. I don't know. Everybody has a different line, right?

SPEAKER_02 40:24

I think that's a really interesting part about the threshold because there's something to be said where I'm just really not feeling it, but I don't have really a good excuse not to. And like those are the days if I can step up and actually go to class, I'm really proud of myself. But if I am like run down, foggy, and I if I stay home and go to bed early, I'm proud. But if I just stay home and then scroll, like was that really the best use of my time?

SPEAKER_00 40:50

Yeah, the scrolling is a problem.

SPEAKER_02 40:53

Okay, so what does jujitsu look like? So you're you said you're in a minute of an injury, an illnessy thing, but like can otherwise historically you get in a couple times a week. You're you're uh you're a 10th planet girl, right? You did mostly no gi.

SPEAKER_00 41:10

Yeah, mostly no-gi. I started doing ghee, and I think I was doing ghee consistently for about a year or year and a half when I first started, probably four, maybe five, six times a week, depending on the week. But yeah, I was pretty consistent, and then I got super busy with school, COVID happened, and you know, all of these other things that uh yeah, I wasn't training during COVID, so I was out, like I was not training at all, and I genuinely shut down with the world for a couple of years, and then grad school was pulling me away, and when I finally got like I felt mentally ready to get back in it, and there's there's so much more attached to it for why I didn't want to go go back, it just didn't feel safe to go back to that say that same gym that I started at. So yeah, I was like, where else can I go? And that gym that I started at after that was I I started taking some of their wrestling classes on top of the no-gi and or sorry, on top of the gi and the no-gi classes, and I was like, oh my god, I'm terrible at standing up, which I already knew, but like it was it was kind of my way of like let me refresh my memory of what I remember from years ago training. I think at that point I had been like two and a half, maybe almost three years of like no training, maybe every once in a while. Um, so it was like refreshing my memory and trying to get back into it and expand my no-gi slash wrestling. Like it was all terrible. So it was just like you know, getting my feet wet again and getting comfortable again. And then once I started like really getting more into it and wanting more, I was like, let me, where else can I go to like get all get everything I want? And I just ended up at 10th plan at Fullerton, and apparently I do nogi now. I don't it definitely wasn't the plan. It wasn't, I wasn't like, I'm going to do no gi because I'm like really fascinated by nogi, and it's a weak point. I was like, I'm bad at all of this. Gee, nogi wrestling, I'm bad at all of it, and I just want to have fun, and I I ended up having like finding a great environment at 10th planet, this is specifically the classes I go to, and yeah, so I'm doing nogi and I got my blue belt in nogi, so that's pretty fun. Didn't think I was ever gonna see blue belt, but yeah, once I got to 10th planet, it just like I honed in and I was the most consistent, still consistently inconsistent, but the most consistent I had been in years, and just really found the fun again and yeah, found great training partners and a really fun, supportive group of people there. Yeah, it's fun. All the time. Like, I felt once I really honed in, I was like, I'm getting this fucking blue belt. Like, I I need it felt like I was just on this, like, like get a blue belt or die trying path. Like, I was just dead set on it. I was doing wrestling privates, and I still want to keep doing those, but it's just the years flying by. But um, yeah, so I was doing like wrestling privates trying to get in at least four times a week and making sure I'm rolling and all that. And I got my blue belt, and it was like that was in January this year. So it's a long process to get there, but I just felt like this sigh of relief. Like, okay, I did the blue belt, I did it, I met that goal, and now just like relax. Just relax. Like, you did it, you know you can do it, you know you can keep going. So just have fun with it now. Like, take the pressure off. And it's been kind of nice because, like I said, I've been having like health issues. I'm just getting really, like, really sick every month and a half to two months, like clockwork. And it sh it completely like kicks my ass. I'm bedridden for like a full week, and then it takes at least another two weeks to get back to a level of normalcy, and then I get like a week or so of getting back into my normal swing of things, and then bam, I'm sick again, and it's just keeps doing this, and so I'm trying to figure out why this is happening, like what I'm deficient in. I learned that I'm very deficient in vitamin D. So that's I'm doing supplements and all that now. But so yeah, training has been since January, it's really like died down a lot. So I'm trying to find workarounds and yeah, how do I still get that like mental stimulation of jujitsu without actually training super hard and trying to learn it, teach myself how to swim and stuff and and do those things, but yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:02

They could keep coming back to everybody is different. Some people will never get like ringworm ever in their career, some people will never have an injury, some people will never never tap anyone in a roll. We can even go the other direction too. Some people will never some people will never compete, some people will compete all the time and will never get a medal. And that's okay because if there's not a one size fits all for our training.

SPEAKER_00 46:29

Absolutely. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:31

But if you like it, and if you're happy, I love that when you said like I'm bad at training, I suck at jujitsu. There's like there's so many way different ways we could say that. There's like a trend right now on Instagram that I've seen where it's like you say the same phrase, but you use different intonations. So it's like stop talking. But you say stop talking like in a happy voice, say stop talking in like a disappointed voice, whatever. I can say, I suck, and be like so proud because it takes so much pressure off me. Yes, no one's expecting me to like win the championship.

SPEAKER_00 47:08

To me, when I'm saying like I suck at it, it's not like what's the what's it called, like self-deprecating, like it's not to like shit on myself. It's like I kind of enjoy sucking at something. I don't want to be good at everything, you know. Like the it's they say, like, you know, the journey is the important part or whatever. It's not the destination, it's the journey. And like usually I'm just like, I whatever, you know, it's just like such a cliche thing to say. But that really is true with jujitsu. For me at least, I'm just like, I'm totally okay with sucking, I think it's hilarious. And what's most important to me is that I'm improving through time, even if it's the slowest progress ever, and I never get taps in a roll, and I'm always the one like, uh, that sucked for me, but that was great for you, you know. Like, yeah, it's just about enjoying it and like having fun. And most days I am having the most fun. Some days I cry afterward. And a couple of weeks ago, I almost I did cry on the mats on accident. I was trying to get out of there, but a teammate was like, Oh, you're not rolling, and I was like, No, not having fun. I just got the fuck out of there. But um, yeah, yeah. To me, saying I suck isn't like uh a bad thing, it's just that's where I'm at, and that's okay, and I'm I'm fine with that.

SPEAKER_02 48:26

My favorite is because I'm not good, no one asks me to be the teacher, and I spend so much of my life telling people what to do. I go somewhere and I get to just sit back and learn because like, no, do the opposite of what she does.

SPEAKER_00 48:42

That is so funny. Yeah, I remember feeling like when I got my blue belt, I was like, oh shit, people are gonna expect me to know things down. I'm so bad with the names of everything and and also practitioners, like, there's very few jujitsu names I actually know. Like, I don't even know like the competitor guy who's like super well known, Mikey Mushimedi or whatever. Please please don't show that or caveat it with like I'm sorry to disrespect your name like that. I don't mean it that way. But yeah, I'm I'm really bad with like all those like technical little things, so it's just you know, it's just part of it.

SPEAKER_02 49:18

Well, there's there's so many jujitsu games, right? You yeah, I read I relate a lot to like four and five year olds, and so I'd like to break down some that's how I think of the world. Like, how how can I explain this to them? I do a lot of like head and heart thinking. Like my head, if I if I'm too much of a head thinker, I become a robot, but if I'm too much of a heart thinker, I'm just gonna explode. So there has to be a balance between the two. Yeah, and so you can't. Some people will go in completely head thinkers into jujitsu. They know all the names, they know all the techniques, they know what the gable grip is versus this. They know all those things because that makes sense to them. And that they're like, oh, move to this one, and then they move into that, whatever that works for them. Other people are like water on the mat. They just flow from one bit to the other, and you're like, I don't know what you just did. They're like, neither do I. They just kind of flow through. It just floats it. Yeah, it just felt it. Yeah, it just felt right. But also, like that game works for them. And so I find I have to be kind of sometimes I'm more than other I try on lots of different skins. I'm like, I wonder if I can play the robot game. I wonder if I can play the water game. What do I need to know in order to get better? And I'm trying to look at now like the bigger picture. Like, do I notice the direction of their feet or their facing? Is it gonna make it easier for the sweep? Are they pushing? Are they pulling? Are they um lighter in one of their points than the other? Like, I shouldn't be going for the base leg if all their weight is on it. That does not make sense. So there's a lot to think about.

SPEAKER_00 50:54

There, yeah, there is a lot. It there everything is so dynamic, and it's like uh one time my coach like said it's like a sphere, it's a three-dimensional sphere, and there's you can move in any of the directions, you just have to feel it, like, and and know what you need to do and know what you want to do. And I'm like, I never know what I want to do. Like, I just I just know I don't want to be where I'm at most of the time. So I'm like, how do I get out of this? But oh yeah, I can move in a three-dimensional plane. A lot of times I'm just thinking two-dimensionally, and I don't I don't know how I should. I'm definitely not the fluid one. I'm definitely not the the like robot. I'd well, I probably move very robot.

unknown 51:45

I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 51:46

Basically, my jujitsu game is like, dang, this sucks for me. How do I not let this keep my jujitsu game is I'm in danger.

SPEAKER_02 52:00

A thousand percent.

SPEAKER_00 52:01

Um, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 52:04

Okay, as we look at making this accessible to others, what would you say to women that might have had similar paths? Because unfortunately, when we look at statistics, like what one in four women have had some had domestic violence or physical violence against them. What would you say to people that are like, oh, I worry about jujitsu? Or maybe that's something for me, but I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_00 52:28

Move at your own pace first and foremost. Safety is like pivotal. Having training partners that you feel safe with, that'll make or break it. And unfortunately, as we see in the jujitsu community all the time, a lot of gyms, a lot of gym owners, a lot of coaches, training partners are not to be trusted. And unfortunately, this is a space where you can be very easily preyed upon and continue um continue your trauma, unfortunately. It's it's really hard to say. It's it's kind of one of those proceed with cautions, like that. That's I would always say proceed with caution and try your best to develop very open communication with your training partners and find the people that are that are open to receiving those concerns. Because not everybody's going to be. And your best training partner could be a guy that you were extremely intimidated by at first. Like they might be your best training partner. You never know. I think some of my best training partners over the years have been some of the guys that originally I was like, oh, I don't know about this one, and just they're like, I'm like, oh, you know, like that made me uncomfortable. And they're like, oh my gosh, like, okay, we won't do that. Like, you never know who it's gonna be, so keep an open mind, but keep your boundaries firm. If you're not comfortable doing something, find a place where you are empowered to say no when when you can say no, to whether it's a role with a certain person, whether it's a specific technique, or if you're having like flashbacks or something and you're having a panic attack in that moment, train with people where you can go, well, we need to stop and let you do what you need to do to like collect, even if you just need to take off for the day, and like maybe you get lucky and you have training parties that I will check in on you afterward or say, like, hey, glad, glad you came back in. I know that was rough, you know. Like it's yeah, proceed with passion.

SPEAKER_02 54:31

Now, do you disclose to coaches about past experiences? Regard not necessarily just like hey, gyms can make me uncomfortable. Like the there's a part of I am not my past, it is part of me. I know that there's certain parts that we carry as an identity, and sometimes we want we just want a fresh start. I don't know, maybe it's what what do you think about that?

SPEAKER_00 54:55

I'm a big fan of that. I don't always like I did that at my first gym. I think I disclose to a certain amount at, you know, not like hey, I'm coming in and I have a very extensive trauma history. I may or may not have done that actually. That sounds pretty on par with me because like I am not my past, but it is, it does shape who I am and how I show up in the world and how I perceive the world. It very much does. I think having a very transparent conversation with the owner of the coach immediately disclosing that stuff is going to be in a fantastic gauge of how they handle that. Because that's a very, very real concern. And if they're not comfortable hearing that from prospective students, they're not gonna be equipped to handle it in real time when you are uncomfortable. And maybe they'll be the kind of coach that's like, whatever, tough it out. And I feel like you have to be able to listen to yourself to make those decisions. Like, somebody can't be yelling at you to do something you're uncomfortable with. Like, you have to be in the right head space to be like, you know what? I am very uncomfortable with this right now, but I'm gonna push through. I'm gonna push past my comfort zone because I feel safe with this person, or or I need to just I just need to get through it. I just need to do it. And like having people on your side that are supportive is is key. So I I am a proponent of disclosing, but again, everything's everybody's different and everything's at your own comfort level.

SPEAKER_02 56:29

So yeah. Yeah, and I think you're right, like no one size fits all. This seems like good advice. I think as a female, if I didn't know people at the gyms that I was going to, it would feel very reasonable to talk to the coaches and be like, hey, this sport really gets pretty vulnerable. There's a high level of trust. The world is a very funny place, and we've unfortunately heard lots of circumstances of women being taken advantage of. What's your policy? How do you address it? What are some circumstances? I don't need to know the details of who, but I want to know that I'm safe because having me on the match is just as valuable as any man or experience. Because what about if it was your sister, your daughter, your spouse, whoever?

SPEAKER_00 57:12

Yeah, asking about policies is extreme, like that could be very helpful. I I have not done that. I should, but part of me, there's a big part of me that's always afraid of being disappointed. So it's like I'm so used to having to be the one to like deal with this, deal with the situation and move on with my life, is which is usually like leave that environment permanently, that I'm like, I'm just used to that. And I don't want to hear that that's actually the case. I'm just gonna assume that that's the case if and when something happens. But yes, please, places with policies, that's super important. And I think something that helped me a lot was asking the higher belts, asking the women who is safe to train with and who isn't. Yeah, and watching how the how everybody partners with each other, like just getting a feel of like, even if you just want to, like when you're first starting, just go watch a couple classes, see the people who are like more gentle and more like playful versus the people that are in there, like they are like, I'm here for blood every training session. Maybe that's not your ideal training partner. Maybe when you get a lot more comfortable with it, maybe that is your ideal training partner and you're in there for blood every class. Yeah, watching, talking with the other students and the coaches and the owners.

SPEAKER_02 58:38

So yeah. My big like starting in a new school or open mat. If I am trusting somebody, I definitely am more choosy. I'm not gonna work with a no-stripe white belt that's in his early 20s that looks like he could like throw me in the air with one hand. Like, but if I do take a chance, I usually I'll go in if it's a stranger and I'll be like, I'm hoping not to get murdered this round, and then you smile. And generally it starts like a funny little exchange. Unfortunately, that has to be a gauge because if they don't smile, don't recognize, they don't go to shake my hand or slap bump, whatever.

SPEAKER_00 59:12

There's no respect or rapport to start with, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 59:15

And then it's like I I'm walking into a situation where I don't know if we're both talking about the same game. Yeah. I don't need to fulfill, like, you don't need to guillotine me off the bat. Like a new person. Like, we're I don't I don't want that.

SPEAKER_00 59:30

What are either of us getting out of that? You know?

unknown 59:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 59:35

No, that made me so happy when you said that because we were partners as strangers at the bodied camp. And I think that something similar, we were both probably like, uh, we're just here. Um, are we gonna have fun with this or are we a here for blood? Like, you know, I and I I don't remember who approached who, but the fact that we that you agreed to partner with me, I'm like, oh okay. And you were a cool call, you had all your friends there, and I didn't know anybody. You guys all matched. So hipping with it. Yeah, they were they were all matching. I didn't have a gold rash guard at the time, but now I do. But yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:14

So it's there's lots of feelings and lots of people, and there's lots of space for the people that want to do this. So yeah, it's great, Gary. Yeah, totally. Well, we're finishing up. You're like, I don't know what we'll talk about, and here we are an hour later.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:31

No, it's fun.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:34

But thank you, Joe, for being on the show. And hopefully, what do you think the next couple months, next year? What are you hoping for?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:41

Some stabilized health. And yeah, more rolling. I miss rolling. Yeah, I want to be able to not have vertigo, and it that's healing quite a bit, but I want to get stronger lifting. I want to get back into swimming now that my ruptured eardrum is healed, healing. Um yeah, just keep practicing, keep growing, and trying new things. I promised teammate that I was gonna go try CrossFit class with her, and another one that I was gonna go do a mue thai class with her, and I want to do these things, but you know, life and health, it just gets in the way. So just and getting out in nature more. I have a couple of travel things coming up, so that that'll be fun. Not jujitsu related, but oh, I should bring okay. Now I gotta find jujitsu places.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:35

Yes, you could totally drop in. Oh my gosh, it'd be so much fun.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:38

Oh my gosh, okay, jujitsu in Iceland, putting that on my bucket list.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:43

Like, if you don't do a jujitsu in Iceland, I'm gonna be deeply disappointed.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:48

No pressure. Yeah. Emily writes herself a note, start Googling Jiu Jitsu places in Iceland. So fun. Oh boy.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:57

Well, I'm hoping onwards and upwards, and life is at weird uh family circus kind of here and there and everywhere. And hopefully we'll work together soon. I'm like hopefully, yeah. Barely. Hopefully, I'll get up back into technique practice maybe next week. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:17

Or at least go watch and draw. If you like drawing, take notes. It's it really does like help. Just being there helps my mood. That's for sure.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:27

I had I had I was in a very weird headspace with it all. But after I go to the Dr. Wednesday, then I find out, and then I'm I feel safer going back because God, if I need surgery, it's like a six-month recovery. But we're just, you know, if that at this point in my life, it's gonna be fine. Whatever's gonna happen, it's gonna be happening. And who knew a big toe could cause so much trouble? It's like a leg, it's like a toe.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:55

Oh, yeah, ligaments are important.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:58

Yeah, even if it's just a toe. Yeah, dang. All right, well, we're gonna get going, and thanks again, Joe. All right, thanks. Speedy recovery. Yeah. My shout out this week goes to not taking yourself too seriously, laughing, the funny of it all, finding joy again, being able to just giggle uncontrollably, whether on the mat or off. It is such a relief to know that life is only as serious as we think it is, and sometimes laughter is the best. Joe and I laughed a lot. Uh it's kind of funny because the filter I use will take away some of the background noise, but it also normalizes volume of conversation, and sometimes the laughs come out quite distorted. But also for the best reason. Oh no, we were laughing too much. I hope you find some time to laugh on the mat, laugh after training, something like that. There is so much joy to be seen. Thank you so much, Jo, for being on the podcast. She was very transparent with life experiences, where she's come from, where she's going, what her future looks like. Sometimes our road takes some unexpected twists and turns and leaps forward and setbacks and all of it. And if we don't enjoy it along the way, we have such an opportunity to miss some wonderful, great things. I never ever wish ill on anyone. I know that I cannot be in control of every aspect of my life. I can only be in control of how I handle it. And so listening to Jo, seeing just where she is in the moment is such an inspiration. She had a tremendous story, and sometimes I feel like I get so wrapped up in the editing process or thinking about the next question. I forget to acknowledge just the power of the statements. Her story was a lot. I hope no one ever has to go through challenges ever, but that's not the human experience. But again, I would never wish it on anyone. But just her testament of human triumph is just so exciting. So, whatever brings you to the mat, I applaud you. Whatever keeps you on the mat, I'm cheering you on. I'm so proud of you for taking this step because life is hard, but let's not make it harder on ourselves and let's find the good all around us. So, today be like Joe, find a reason to laugh, overcome that thing, and be the best that you possibly can be. And always remember come back to the podcast, come back to Emily's Pajama Party. I'm here for you because you are just amazing, and never forget how proud I am of you.