S1E22 Four Styles, One Self: Season Summary

What if your biggest arguments, stalled projects, and late-night worries aren’t personal failures, but energy mismatches you can learn to navigate? We break down the STIR model—Stabilizer, Transformer, Initiator, Responder—through two lenses: dynamic vs static energy and masculine vs feminine expression. 

We dig into competing anxieties that fuel conflict: one partner wants comfort while the other rushes to fix; one teammate needs consensus while another pushes for speed. You’ll hear a grounded case study of pandemic-era drinking reframed as a Transformer in distress, and how activating Initiator discipline and Stabilizer routines created real change without shame. From boardrooms to living rooms, we explore when to widen the circle and when to give a clear directive, and how to build complementary strengths so creativity doesn’t die on the whiteboard.

Then we open an unexpected door: dream work as a practical tool for integration. Dream characters often embody neglected parts of ourselves—masculine or feminine voices, or specific STIR energies—acting out what our waking self avoids. By asking “If that character is me, what is it trying to do or protect?” nightmares become maps. You’ll leave with simple practices to identify your default energy, choose the one you need next, and translate insight into daily action.

If this conversation sparks something useful, follow the show, share it with a friend, and leave a quick review with your favorite takeaway. Your notes help others find the podcast and keep the work growing.

You can connect with the cohosts through their respective websites:

AFCCounselors.com (Dr. Shalley) / https://www.inyourdreams.coach/contact (Dr. Kelley)

Transcript

Section A

SPEAKER_00 0:12

Welcome to Therapy Coaching and Dreams, where we invite you into a space to cultivate greater awareness, clarify your purpose, and expand your fulfillment by exploring the inner landscape of personality. I'm your co-host, Dee Kelly, and I'm joined by Jim Shaley. Together we bring our experience in coaching and therapy to help you do some of your own work in self-understanding and personal growth. So, Jim, let's go over the four personality styles that will be for different individuals. They may resonate immediately with one. It may be that as they've listened to us talk, that they still struggle a little bit to try and identify where they fall in this system. And sometimes it's helpful to ask somebody else, maybe listing some of the characteristics. Does this sound like me?

SPEAKER_01 1:05

Yep. I think it's great to do a little bit of review. Because if people have listened, they might go, what the crap are they talking about? So we've been kind of all over the map on some of them, I know, but I think it's great to do a general review. Again, the way I the way I conceptualize it initially, or that we've talked about it, is that is the word stir?

SPEAKER_02 1:26

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:27

Because as you kind of come to grips with all of them, there's a stirring inside typically. And stir I've obviously stands for the stabilizer, the transformer, the initiator, and the responder. Those are the four quadrants that we kind of talk about throughout the our discussion.

SPEAKER_00 1:43

Aaron Powell And let's break them down into the two dimensions that we talk about all of the time. One is the dynamic energy that is really focused on movement, action, accomplishing things, productivity in many ways.

SPEAKER_01 1:59

Yeah, those that's the initiator and the transformer.

SPEAKER_00 2:01

Aaron Powell Great. The initiator and the transformer are both expressions of that dynamic energy. And the static energy, sometimes referred to as a stabilizing force, organizing force that brings order and systems to the world or to a family or to an organization. Those two are a stabilizer and the responder.

SPEAKER_01 2:24

Right.

SPEAKER_00 2:25

Yeah, those two. So the other dimension that we often talk about is the masculine expression and the feminine expression, which we've said many times, but is always worth repeating.

SPEAKER_01 2:35

It's always worth repeating. It's not male, female. Absolutely true.

SPEAKER_00 2:38

Yeah. So all of us have within us an expression of masculine and feminine approaches. And let's do that same division. Those that would look far more masculine in nature concern themselves generally with what kinds of things?

SPEAKER_01 2:56

The stabilizer and the initiator?

SPEAKER_00 2:58

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 2:59

Yeah. It's basically bringing structure to things or uh the initiator basically would implement a plan. The interesting thing about that is oftentimes the initiator needs to work cooperatively with the transformer who sees who sees new ways of doing things. And so the transformer is very creative but have a hard time following through. So they actually need the initiating energy. And some people are are gifted enough to have both those, so then they're they're able to really implement the things that they create. Whereas some people are idea people and they'll surround themselves with people that that initiate and to and and implement. So and then the stabilizer kind of all does the same thing in a different way where they they it put in place structures and systems to get to of order to get things done as well. But they all but again, that's why it's so important to see how they work together. Because without the the nurturing of the responder and the creativity of the transformer, lots of times the initiator and the stabilizer don't have anything to do.

SPEAKER_00 4:10

So the initiator and the stabilizer, this masculine expression of who we are is often concerned with simply accomplishing tasks. And uh both relationships with individuals, but sometimes also relationships with the world, with nature, with those kinds of things. It's relational-oriented. Yeah. So those individuals can accomplish tasks, but it's also pardon me, it's always with relationships in mind. I'm accomplishing things.

SPEAKER_01 4:53

Whereas the initiator and the and the stabilizer, they don't tend to the relationship as much. Now they would say, it's like the classic thing with couples counseling, is that the the feminine or the woman in this case will want to vent frustrations and the man will want to fix it. They'll jump into the masculine mode. I mean, their intention is to help. So they would say, no, I'm trying to help. When really they're just trying to get the thing solved. So they don't have to have anxiety about it, probably if I had to do a deeper dive of that. But again, that's masculine energy. I just want to take care of it. Whereas they would make a case that, no, this is trying to help her. Whereas a feminine would go, no, you're not helping at all. I just want you to listen. They want they want you to actually go into the responder mode and just listen and nurture. And so if you pay attention to the dynamics, you can see where you're trying to push each other to the place where you want them to be because you haven't developed that side of yourself yet, or it could be a number of reasons.

SPEAKER_00 5:52

Yeah. I feel like I often have to when working with individuals who are in relationship and they're struggling with conflict, or when I'm working with couples, that I often have to bring up the issue of implied intent, that we get very frustrated at individuals without taking just a breath, a moment, and saying, you know, their intent is likely not to hurt you.

SPEAKER_01 6:21

Absolutely true. So everything in them says that's not true. They're trying to hurt me.

SPEAKER_00 6:26

Yeah, yeah, because they are hurt. And they have to place that hurt somewhere. And so you made a comment about a person wanting to solve a problem. Like I'm trying to do something good here when another individual in a relationship, I just I just want you to hear me. All I want you to do is listen and be compassionate.

SPEAKER_01 6:48

But again, that's why I go way back to one of our other conversations. That's competing anxieties. If I have to sit and listen to you, my anxiety is going to go up. And if if you hear me fixing it, your anxiety is going to go up. So yeah, that's why I always try to frame it as positive as you can when it comes to couples counseling, is that it's it's competing anxieties. We want the other to help us. In other words, in our context, it's like I want you to move to this side of the of this structure to tend to me or to help me. And then sometimes, yes, I want you to have a to solve a problem. So you have to be more deliberate in in expressing that need as well.

SPEAKER_00 7:26

I'm sure the number of times both of us would be difficult to count where where we have brought to the attention of an individual that they are doing something that is just consistently frustrating. And the response is, well, well, that's not what I meant. Absolutely true. Yeah. All the time.

SPEAKER_01 7:46

They want the their partner then to believe that. And so there isn't the growth gets stuck because that's why, okay, who who's going to shift here? If the partner believes it, well, then the guy gets to continue to fix everything. Right. And if the other person believes it, well, then I just have to sit here and listen to you, which more often than not is the correct answer. Anytime we try to push each other to a place that's not comfortable, it's, as I say all the time, breaking those patterns or integrating what we're talking about is just an ongoing thing. I mean, I had an example last night I was working on a piece of equipment here at my property, and I was trying to fix it, and yet I was it was just not going well. And at one point I had to stop back, and the the way that I show the responder is to scream. So I I screamed what I just took a break, stepped away from it, and then went and got the what I thought would be the right, the right bolts, and was able to put it in. But it was the same thing. I had to I had to nurture myself through this exasperating place where I couldn't fix the problem like I was hoping to, but I needed to take a break and get my wits about me, which is which is the responder side, to just take a break from it. You don't need to solve this and then go back to it. So my point for bringing that up is it's that's the internal journey. If we pay attention all day long to those four quadrants of how to access them, that's an example of it. Like when do we need to step away? When do we need to take a break? Sometimes we do that unconsciously, but again, obviously our desire is to make it more conscious so that you can, you know, the phrase live intentional, which is kind of what we're talking about. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:31

Yeah. And I think one of the great benefits of learning the different styles is that you have provided yourself with additional resources to face problems that don't naturally fit for your natural style. Yeah. And sometimes those shifts are crucial for appropriate outcomes. I was talking with somebody yesterday, and I used an example that I've used with businesses often, because there's a correlation on the masculine side of this between those who in their leadership style tend to be more autocratic and those who are more consensus building. And in many ways, that would correspond to an initiator tends to be more autocratic and the stabilizer and the responder, but the stabilizer would be far more consensus building. Well, if I'm in an organization, often employees, not all, but often employees like more consensus building because it gives everybody a voice. But if the building's on fire, I don't want somebody to say, okay, let's everybody come on in. Go get your hoses and your water bottles and bring them in. We're we're going to put some things up on the whiteboard here. Everybody's opinion is important. You want somebody who comes in and says, the building's on fire, go to the exits, get out of the building now. And so to be able to access different parts of who you are.

SPEAKER_01 11:04

Okay, your pants are on fire. Write that down the board. Pants are on fire. Okay, good. Any other ideas of what we ought to do about that?

SPEAKER_00 11:12

Okay, sorry. No. So being able to access these different aspects that are within all of us actually gives us many more resources to tap into when we are facing issues.

SPEAKER_01 11:26

And what's interesting is in those uh in those uh really uh emergency situations, you'll find the natural initiator.

unknown 11:33

Great.

SPEAKER_01 11:35

They will always step up and they'll take charge. And that's why it's so interesting and you know in emergency situations, who sets back, who d who delays just enough, who takes charge, who stands up. It's just fascinating to see how your natural energy will show itself pretty quickly. I don't want to be in those, I don't want to really put I'm not recommending you put yourself in those positions in order to diagnose yourself.

SPEAKER_00 12:03

I agree with that. So give us some clues. You work with so many people on this model of how you help an individual become more aware of different voices within them, different ways to address problems. How do you raise that awareness level?

SPEAKER_01 12:25

One of my probably if I if I uh think about it, my one of my more successful cases was a couple that came in during just after the pandemic was kind of getting better. I mean, as far as we were getting back to normal a little bit. Because a lot of couples really struggled because they were home home together, and this gentleman, he started drinking too much. And I was quiet about it, didn't didn't talk about it, but obviously it caused a lot of interference. So when they came in for for counseling, I had seen him before the before the pandemic, and then they started seeing me again. And I had introduced this masculine and feminine energy to the gentleman, and he was kind of like it made sense to him, but he wasn't really wasn't really getting it. And so we talked a little bit about finally his wife brought up the fact that he had been drinking, he's he had given it up, he was doing better. And I said, You know, you know, you do know why you started drinking, right? And he goes, I was bored. I go, okay, you're bored and you couldn't work. And and I said, Well, that's your transformer. That's the negative side of the transformer. And he goes, Oh, I mean that stuff you talked about before you have all that stuff. And I go, Yeah. So that's a perfect example of you were bored, you needed energy, you couldn't go out and do much, so you started drinking. It gave expression to this, the dis I would say the dysfunctional side of the transformer, because you couldn't go create, you couldn't work, you couldn't do those things that was a natural expression of that, you couldn't go hiking, all that stuff. And he goes, Oh, so that's a good thing. I go, no, no, it's not a good thing. I'm just saying that that made sense to him as to as I go, okay, that was what you're talking about. And yes, when I was drinking, I didn't think about anything, I was just in the moment, you know, whatever. He he was he looked at as a positive. Wasn't all that positive. But again, I think the the quicker you're able to make something that that seems negative, and you reframe it and you say that's what that expression was, then it's you're not shaming them. You're not necessarily saying it's a bad or good, you're just describing it. And for this guy, he was able to get it. Plus, his masculine energy really needed to be developed. And so I said, Why'd you how'd you get to the point where you stopped drinking? He goes, Well, it was it was affecting my life. I couldn't, I couldn't hardly do anything. And I said, Okay, so you realize you'd gone to the extreme. And he said, Yeah. I said, that's what happens. And any of these quadrants we talk about, in the masculine and feminine, they have an ex they have an extreme expression. And that's what the and that's what you were doing by drinking too much. So you had to get in touch with the initiator or the masculine side of you to stop drinking. And he went, Oh, okay, that makes sense. So when you start putting it in real life context, I think that's what really helps them realize it. And you you kind of take it out of the realm of the couple so that you don't they can't blame the other one or they did this or didn't do that. But you start really emphasizing the internal work. Because then I got him to the point where he could say, Oh, I needed to be over here then, right? And I go, Yeah, you need to be in the initiating. Or you needed to be now, you need to not drink every day. So that's a stabilizer. You got to implement what you know. So that really helped him from that perspective. Yeah. That was a long explanation, but No, that's a great example. I think that's that's the challenge, really, is to put it so realistically into their life experience. Another great way to do it, you may do a lot of this where in the context of their work, it takes it out of the realm of being at home and the the contentiousness of the personal side of it, so they can kind of get it at work more as far as how they interact. And then you get the the the the enjoyable part is once they get it, they can start identifying people at work that carry those energies. And they now know how to talk to these people more effectively.

SPEAKER_00 16:20

Yeah. It's a great point. Because if you start talking the language of the other person, it opens up all kinds of doors of communication. It's so true. Yeah. Yeah. I think one of the advantages of engaging in conversation this way is what you've done numerous times, and it's not to place blame anywhere. So often a response is not right or wrong, good or bad. It just is based on the resources you had at that moment. So it could have been that the decision could have been better, but you were likely responding in a way that in the moment, given the resources you had that you thought was the best way to respond. And one of the problems is that if we don't have enough resources, we don't have enough insight, we may not be able to access a different perspective, a different way to look at things. And when you start learning how different people see the world, you go, oh, maybe there's a different way to look at this. It can begin to change your whole perspective on how you interact with others and how you live in the world. It's absolutely true.

SPEAKER_01 17:30

Which I think is the uh the best benefits of understanding that we're kind of all in this together. Although I think we've we've kind of forgotten that a little bit. So Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:41

And that's part of the vilifying of the other person is that which I don't understand or that which doesn't agree with me, I I make out to be the evil side of this discussion, when in fact, in most cases, it's just a different perspective.

SPEAKER_01 17:58

And again, my bias is that's just that's just a projection of the denied aspects of myself. Yeah. Basically, if I'm frustrated externally with someone or some energies out in the out in the world, and I find myself hating or really disliking whatever's happening, my opinion is more often than not, it's an internal struggle I'm having that I don't want to acknowledge. And so I project it out into the world, and then I have I have hate in my heart, and I don't really understand that the hate is coming from within where I cannot access or do not have a do not have a voice somewhere where I want to have a voice. And so then I project it. That's why we follow who we follow. That's that's why we like the the leaders we like. We're projecting an aspect of ourselves.

SPEAKER_00 18:46

That's my belief. Spot on. Spot on. So I'm gonna introduce another pathway for exploration that has been incredibly helpful for me. And when I work with individuals who are open to it, it begins to expose some of those different voices within us that we might be able to access. And that's the characters that appear in a dream. Oh, good. So if I'm working with an individual and they have some dreams that they're willing to share and begin to move toward the place of not externalizing the dream and thinking that those characters are prophetic about something that's gonna happen with their family member that was in the dream. But instead say, let's say that that person is.

SPEAKER_01 19:34

So Uncle George is gonna Uncle George is gonna pass away and he's got lots of money, you know. So That's right.

SPEAKER_00 19:40

So why are you coming to me? I I think you've got this figured out. So the question then that follows is if that person is a part of you, tell me a little bit about what part that might be. Had a client recently that had a nightmare that had been on her mind for a long, long time. Uh months. Uh sometimes we have nightmares that stay with us for years, but uh this one had been for months. And it was all externalized. That was what made it so frightening. And then to be again to pose because she had never considered this before, the possibility that those characters were parts of her.

SPEAKER_01 20:22

Yeah, that's a horror movie. It's a horror movie if you externalize it and you write a movie about it. Yeah, that's okay. Yeah. I think a lot of movie ideas come from dreams. I think you're right. Yeah. Anyway.

SPEAKER_00 20:36

But to begin to explore the male characters in her dream and say, let's say this is the masculine side of you that's trying to express an an option, a direction for you. And in the dream you walk away from all of the masculine characters and go a different direction. Is there any voice inside of you then? And I can list the initiator or the stabilizer if I want to get that specific. Is there a masculine voice in you that that frightens you that you feel like you need to walk away to protect yourself because it doesn't feel like safe space? And why would that be? And the discussion just opened up to this. In some wonderful, wonderful ways. So if you begin to explore the other thing that I do with dreams is things that happen in a dream that you would never do yourself in real life, and say, okay, so if this is reflecting a part of you. Yeah, it's great. A part of you that you would never admit in a disagreement is actually inside of you, what might that say about the journey that you're on? And again, when you have this dream and you point out, you know, this dream was constructed from within you. Absolutely true. So yeah, that's that. Yeah. So let's talk about it.

SPEAKER_01 22:01

Sometimes I'm sure sometimes people believe that the individuals they dream about that that that person is trying to get a message to them.

SPEAKER_00 22:09

Oh, oh, a hundred percent. Yes, yes, yes. And and in some ways it takes away that mystique.

SPEAKER_01 22:17

Absolutely true. Oh, you mean this is about me? Oh, yeah, you're it's your head you're dreaming in. Okay. Anyway.

SPEAKER_00 22:26

But it is a wonderful way to get in touch with the initiator inside of me that feels a little more distant that I don't know how to access. But in the dream, I see it happening, and it's not my ego in the dream, my character in the dream that's doing it. It's this other character. Yep. Absolutely. That character is part of me. So it is a great way of.

SPEAKER_01 22:46

Do they res do they res do they resist that initially?

SPEAKER_00 22:49

So it depends. Okay. Could it be like resistance and therapy? Yes. But what's wonderful with dream work is it's very difficult to disagree with the statement that this came from within you. Oh, yeah, there's that. That's true. So it can be a wonderful tool for exploring new expressions. I find myself very often when I have, for example, characters that are all of one gender in my dream, is in the morning I wake up and I go, you know, I feel like that side of me is trying to get my attention, that I am not paying enough attention to a voice inside of me that is, if it's all female characters, that it expresses that feminine voice in my life.

SPEAKER_01 23:39

What if the female, what if what if the female character you're dreaming about has strong masculine energies?

SPEAKER_00 23:45

So that's fantastic because that speaks toward integration. And so it can either remind me how important integration is or a reminder that integration takes work, but it's happening inside of me. And so there is this moment to reflect and say, where in my life is integration occurring, even though it may be difficult and leading to more creative responses, because integration speaks toward multiple voices in a process, a decision-making, a planning moment.

SPEAKER_01 24:22

No, that's that's great. Given I'm thinking about right now some dreams I've had with a certain person in my dreams, and reframing it that way, they were trying to get me to walk away from some things that I didn't want to walk away from. If I took that symbolism, as you're putting it. Yeah, that's really interesting.

unknown 24:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:45

That changes that changes the whole dynamic of how you think about even the individuals you're dreaming about. It's like, oh, they represent that. And yes, in that context, at that time in my life, I should have walked away. That's why they were walking away from me. Anyway, that's just interesting. That's great. That's great.

SPEAKER_00 25:03

So that's one more way by which you can explore these different voices within you. Yeah, no, I think somebody wants to. Well, both of us, I know, hope that to everyone who's listening, this has been beneficial for your journey. Yep. This brings to a conclusion season one for us, but we're gonna come back in a short time with season two and probably go a little bit more in depth looking at dreams and dream work and examining some of the ways by which we can take that and use it as a tool for personal growth. And we hope you will come join us in that new season.

SPEAKER_01 25:39

So you'll want me to start dreaming more actively, or what would you like for me to do? Start start writing some of them down. No, no, that's I'm sorry, this isn't about me. This is about uh other things. But anyway, that's a great that's great. I'll have to pay more attention in some ways, which would be good for me. So good.

SPEAKER_00 25:57

Well, I I would hate to end the season on something that's not true, because the truth is it is all about you, Jim.

SPEAKER_01 26:04

So you know, I I think uh I now have gone to my negative transformer. I'm gonna start so I guess I'll start uh getting high. Great.

SPEAKER_00 26:20

So be prepared for second season when uh we talk about that with Jim. All right, buddy, thanks. Great to be with you, Jim. Yep. Well, that's it for this episode of Therapy Coaching and Dreams. If you're enjoying the podcast, we'd love for you to share it with someone who might appreciate it as well. And if you are interested in working with either of the co hosts, you can do so at their respective websites, Dr. Shaley at AFCcounselors.com, or Dr. Kelly at in your dreams.coach. Thanks for being here. And until next time, keep growing, stay curious, and take good care of yourself.

SPEAKER_01 27:12

Yeah, no, that's good stuff.