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Therapy, Coaching & Dreams
Therapy, Coaching & Dreams is cohosted by Dr. Jim Shalley and Dr. Selden Dee Kelley III, a therapist and a coach who love talking about how inner work can help you live with more awareness, purpose and freedom.
Therapy, Coaching & Dreams
S1E10 Initiating Energy Part 1: Getting Things Done
Ambition can build bridges or burn them—so how do you keep the fire without scorching your team or your relationships? We dive into the Initiator, a personality expression defined by dynamic masculine energy: goal-first, action-forward, and relentlessly independent. Think founders, crisis leaders, and the people who move when everyone else hesitates. We unpack the real strengths—decisiveness, clarity, and momentum—alongside the predictable blind spots: shallow listening, impatience with process, and a tendency to miss relational cues until it’s too late.
Across the conversation, we map clear signals of Initiator energy and explain why others often “ride the wake” of strong leaders, outsourcing risk and then resenting the outcome. We get honest about projection—how teams and communities crown Initiators as heroes, then flip them into villains when reality fails to match fantasy. You’ll hear practical ways to avoid the bait, hold boundaries with both praise and criticism. If you’ve ever wondered why people stop “hearing” you when you push hard, or why applause can turn to anger overnight, this breakdown will help you read the room and adjust without losing momentum.
We also talk about reclaiming agency if you’re not a natural Initiator. Instead of latching onto someone else’s drive, learn to spark your own small acts of initiation—send the draft, start the hobby, set the micro‑goal—so you build courage and reduce dependency. And for Initiators trying to grow, we share simple listening tactics that don’t stall the project. The result is sustainable leadership, teams that feel heard, and relationships that don’t get sacrificed for the next win.
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You can connect with the cohosts through their respective websites:
AFCCounselors.com (Dr. Shalley) / www.InYourDreams.Coach (Dr. Kelley)
Welcome to Therapy Coaching in Dreams. I am your co-host, D. Kelly, and I'm here with Jim Shaley, and we love spending some time talking about those things that take us toward the inner journey to give us a little bit more clarity and self-awareness and freedom in our living. And this particular week, we are talking about a particular personality style. For those of you who have been following along, you'll know that we've looked at a Jungian model of personality styles and looked at the four major quadrants that divide themselves up between masculine and feminine expressions and static and dynamic energies. And this particular week, we are looking at the initiator, which is a dynamic masculine energy. We have referred to this personality style many times and given some characteristics in the past, we're going to go a little bit deeper, try and give you some examples and see how it might display itself in your life, even if this isn't a primary style for you. If it is a primary style of yours, we hope you recognize yourself in the midst of it and gain some insight as to how to use it to great advantage and the cautions that go along with having this style if it's not balanced. So we're going to spend a little time in that. Jim, welcome. I'm glad you're here.
SPEAKER_02:Thank you, Dee. Along with that, it is interesting that if you're a natural initiator, to sit still and listen to a podcast may be challenging because you're you're out initiating things. Even though if someone suggests a good podcast, an initiator probably, if they're intrigued by it, would listen to it. Would they listen to it all the way through? I don't know. Because initiators, they love to keep moving, moving forward and setting goals and accomplishing things.
SPEAKER_00:So if they are driven by objectives and goals, maybe we ought to frontload this podcast with things they can accomplish and do to bring about the change they want to bring about.
SPEAKER_02:Absolutely. If you listen to this podcast, your relationship will be a 100% turnaround and it'll be great for an initiator.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Jim, one of the aspects of your work over the decades that you've done this, you've been invited into several settings to work with people who are initiators, people who are in charge of companies. Sometimes in the health profession, there are particular individuals that carry a lot of that initiating energy. So give us a couple of examples of what you notice in somebody that gives you the clue that this is probably their dominant personality style. That's a great question.
SPEAKER_02:Usually they're encouraged by family or co-workers that they respect to examine some of the reasons as to why people aren't listening to them anymore. Oh. Of because usually they've they keep moving forward so much so and they set goals that they're so focused on that that listening to other people's feedback can be challenging because they so uh they are so movement-oriented that if they have a direction and they're in a role of leadership, oftentimes their blind spot is truly, and I say truly in quotes, really listening to feedback from others around them. They sometimes will give lip service and they'll they'll ask great questions, but it's almost like they're going through the motions, letting people express their opinions, but they've already got their mind set. So in that context, usually, obviously in the relationship, they aren't listening very well at home. They're they're goal-driven, so of course, maybe accomplishing things like buying a new house or a car or things like that, they're very good at. But sitting and listening to their kids or their wife or their partner, that's always more challenging. So e either of those scenarios, typically it means that I figured some things out, and if the group would just go along with me, we'd be we'd be okay.
SPEAKER_00:So then it's probably fair to say that with an initiator, they're probably good at seeing and responding to a crisis that's in the workplace or in a project because they can kind of envision the direction they want to go quickly, but they are maybe the last to notice a crisis in a relationship.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, yeah, I would definitely say that. Yeah. And that's again, that's why if you're in an emergency situation situation, that personality type will always show up because they just naturally think they know and oftentimes do know exactly the things that need to happen. Uh but yes, they're also the last one to know that you've offended all these people because they would say, I don't I don't care that I offended these people. We needed to get the job done.
SPEAKER_00:We need to move forward, we need to complete the project.
SPEAKER_02:Aaron Powell Absolutely. That becomes the most important part of it. So of course they minimize the impact it has on others because that's not significant to them. And I as we talked about in other in other podcasts, they're typically in relationship in their personal lives with a responder, someone who to the extreme enables that personality type to keep functioning because they take care of things. And it's the and it's easy to rely on them in that sense. But when it comes to relationships, that's where they obviously have blind spots.
SPEAKER_00:So give us a list of some adjectives that characterize an initiator so that initiator might be able to see it in himself or herself. Or if I'm in a relationship with a person that would give me a clue that this is somebody who's a relationship. You g you gave us that they were very goal-driven, problem-solved. Sorry, but what are some of the other characteristics that might be labeled that way?
SPEAKER_02:Aaron Ross Powell Yeah, I think there are the the basic expression is back to is goal-oriented that accomplishes goals. So that's the basic kind of expression. The primary task of that personality is to differentiate differentiate themselves from the group and and to really be more individualistic driven. That's why they don't focus on the relational dynamic. They're just simply uh this is what I need to this is what needs to happen. And so they're they initiate, they they to use a kind of a strong word, they they conquer things. They go into something wanting to accomplish and conquer and and on some level bring order to things, which is the other side of it as far as a stabilizer in the masculine energy. But on the surface, it has to it has to set a goal and accomplish that first before it can oftentimes they have a hard time staying in place because they see the next goal to accomplish.
SPEAKER_00:And uh conquering isn't just conquering people, it's conquering problems, conquering challenges.
SPEAKER_02:Where people feel yeah. Colonialism or any of those things has that has that tenet to it.
SPEAKER_00:You used another phrase that I just want to ask about. You said that there is a drive to differentiate from the group. Is that just another way of saying that they are extremely competitive? Yes. Okay.
SPEAKER_02:And again, it's like, you know, the the the classic example in our history as a as a nation are those individuals that saw the West as a as an opening to go conquer. And so they would have their families and but they had a dream of they wanted to go west, you know, go west, young man, go west. And so with that individual focus, there are other lots of other people that will follow that initiating energy because they see something no one else sees and they have the courage to go after it.
SPEAKER_00:And and one of the ways you could maybe highlight in somebody that this isn't their dominant style, to ask the question, do you enjoy when you win? And if the answer is yes, that there is a tinge of initiator in you that you like that feeling of winning. Absolutely. Trevor Burrus, Jr. Even though you may not be by nature an initiator, you can appreciate how somebody has that feeling maybe to more of an extreme.
SPEAKER_02:And back to our belief that these expressions are in all of us. And so to your point, if I can identify just a small way in which I initiated something and I and I had the feeling of winning or competing or whatever, that then you can say, you see, it's it's in there. It may not be natural, but what how can we bring that out? And to your point earlier, it's like that's this is the expression that creates change. Because it can be, you can express something, you can explain something to someone, but until they get a real sense that they have to have movement in a direction that could feel pretty selfish to make the change. Well, I I I can't do that. That will what would other people think, or how would they feel? Well, that expression doesn't care about that. So you'd have to really work hard at wanting the goal so much so that you would have to you would be able to block some of the other expressions to be able to accomplish the change that you want.
SPEAKER_00:That's an interesting example or situation that you just described where you want something in life, but you find it incredibly difficult to pay the price of what people might think. And so you become stuck and you can't figure out why there's no movement. And you have that initiator within you, but it is squelched by that people-pleasing sli side or the difference. Yeah. Yeah. It is it is interesting.
SPEAKER_02:Again, that's but again, that's why so many people my expression would be they give their power away to that individual because they will strike out on their own and do some things that the other person other personalities don't want to do, but they will attach to them. And that's the the delicate part of that is I can follow an initiator someplace, but if they if it doesn't turn out like I think it should, then I can start criticizing the initiator and then become a malcontent and you know be upset by them. But I didn't have the courage to do it on my own. I'm using their energy, which again, back to the overall expression of what we're talking about. It's so common to use someone else's energy that I have inside of me but I don't want to acknowledge to accomplish tasks or to to uh to do things that I may not may think I want to do, but don't have the courage to do it. That's that's why I'm saying internalizing all these expressions is so profound because I really can accomplish the things that I want to accomplish and not have to rely on somebody else's energy. I don't know if I said that as clearly as I intended, but that's that that's I loved that, Jim. That's the value of all of this from my perspective.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. We are just a heads up for listeners, we'll be talking a little bit more in depth on projections in a future episode. But we project onto initiators both the good and the bad. We project the hero image onto them when they are doing things that bring about what I'm hoping wants to be accomplished. And then I also project the villain on them.
SPEAKER_02:Absolutely true.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And then I can blame others for I can blame others that it didn't go well. Yeah. Rather than rather than not taking not taking accountability for the wait a minute, I didn't want to go do this, but I did it, and it didn't turn out like I thought. Well, okay. You want all the con all the power without the responsibility.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Yeah. I I don't know this has ever been looked at in terms of research or statistics, but it just occurs to me that those who are true initiators probably carry far more projections than any other characteristic personality style.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I'll never forget the election of President Obama when he was standing there at this one scenario. I s I remember thinking there's so much projection on him that we were so hopeful of something that's going to happen. And that had to be such a heavy burden because it's it you do. I mean, on some level you may want it, but man, it it can turn on you so quickly.
SPEAKER_00:And it did. It did. I mean, it carried the opposite projection that neither one of which were his responsibility by Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. And I think that's why it's so important for our leaders and all of us to have some sense of that, of knowing when we're carrying a projection or when we are projecting ourselves. And that's accountability. It's like it's like the balance is between compassion and accountability. If you have too much compassion, it's it's it's too extreme. If you have too much accountability, it's dictatorial. So what's that balance look like? And I think that's what we're striving for internally, and each individual's that balance.
SPEAKER_00:And the thought, just because I had trained myself for my own survival, to listen with this sense of, oh, I'm just the projection screen right now. This person is dumping all over me. I'm the villain. I am the embodiment of everything that they don't know what to do with inwardly. And it changes your ability to receive it. I mean, I I I can you can set a boundary and say, yeah, this isn't about me, which sometimes is very appropriate. There are other times where you just nod your head and hope that they feel good about unloading and say, great meeting. It's so true. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:But so because what they're unconsciously trying to do is to bait you into being the opposite. So they can so they can defeat you, so they can argue with you. And if you don't argue, it's like it's it's like through the election cycles in therapy, it's been so interesting as people come in and they'll project their anger and frustration, and they they're frustrated on some level because they never know what I think, which is how it's supposed to be. But they'll say, What do you really think? And I go, Well, I don't I don't have any thoughts right now about this, but you do, so continue. And yeah, you're right. They'll feel better at the end of the session on some level because they've vented it. But some of them will get so frustrated because they'll keep projecting. I know what you think. I know you're thinking this. And I go, no, I'm really not. They want somebody to really be the opposite because they, in my opinion, unconsciously want to be more balanced. Uh-huh. But they also make it really hard to have that conversation because they're so certain and aggressive.
SPEAKER_00:It is interesting, though, that they want to be in balance, but they are trying to accomplish that externally instead of internally.
SPEAKER_02:Aaron Powell Absolut. Which is the whole thing we're talking about.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Yeah. In contrast, I I mentioned sometimes being the one that is the villain. You have to also have the discipline when somebody comes in and does overt praise on you and go, yeah, this it's nice to hear, but it's not really about me. It's so true. It's like that's equally hard.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, it is. I mean, that's why I used to say working in some nonprofits, that those that praise you the most are the first to turn on you. Because they both project. You're gonna say you're gonna save this, and then when you don't, or you don't save it the way they want you to, then they're the first to criticize. And again, that's all projection. Yeah. And it's a lot of people. It's a fascinating trait. I mean, it really is. If you think about it and you're you're self-aware at all, you'll see so much that takes place of I don't want to take responsibility for this, but I'll I'll tell you to, and then I'll criticize you if you don't do it the way I want you to do.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:When you raise your own internal self-awareness, which is part of what we're trying to bring about in this podcast and in our conversations, you're able to walk through life with a little bit less roller coaster ride of what other people think and to receive people as being on their own journey and respecting that they they have a lot to learn just like you do. And it it changes your ability to engage people that others have a tough time engaging because you know it's not about you in terms of their journey. So the initiator, there is this great energy that they bring. We've mentioned in previous episodes that a lot of people ride the wake of the energy, the the wake they leave behind them, like a boat that leaves waves. They they can others can ride those waves or attach a ski rope and be pulled along by that individual. And again, it's we describe it as a masculine dynamic energy, but it is not male or female. There are both men and women that contain this energy that is so strong and potent, and it is a moving force within the world that gets things done.
SPEAKER_02:Absolutely. I mean, uh again, that's why back to your point I made earlier, to try to try to identify it in each of us, it's as simple as a hobby. I mean, someone who all of a sudden has a need to woodwork, where'd that come from? That's initiating energy. Uh, it brings some fulfillment, but they also have to start a project or they have to have an idea of what they want to make. That's all initiating energy. It's it's an individualistic driven kind of thing. I would do this regardless of what anybody else is going to do. That's that's it initiating energy. I see something I want to do, I don't care what people think, I'm gonna do it.
SPEAKER_00:Well, that's it for this episode of Therapy Coaching and Dreams. If you're enjoying the podcast, we'd love for you to share it with someone who might appreciate it as well. And if you are interested in working with either of the co hosts, you can do so at their respective websites, Dr. Shally at AFCcounselors.com or Dr. Kelly at inyourdreams.coach. Thanks for being here. And until next time, keep growing, stay curious, and take good care of yourself. Yeah, no, that's good stuff.