S2E17 A Sexual Dream Can Be A Map To Your Inner Life

A sexual dream can feel like your mind just exposed you, especially when the dream partner makes no sense or the emotion is stronger than you expected. We slow that moment down and reframe it through dream work: sexuality in dreams often points to psychological integration, where you are trying to connect with parts of yourself you have ignored, feared, or kept too controlled. When we treat sex dreams as symbols instead of literal instruction, shame loosens and insight shows up.

We walk through questions we use in therapy and coaching to help you interpret sex dreams with clarity: What does sex represent to you? What do you want it to mean? What stands out as the strongest moment in the dream? We also look at the dream partner as a mirror, exploring how their traits may reflect undeveloped or emerging aspects of your personality. Along the way, we name an important caution: some sexual content in dreams can be tied to trauma triggers, and it deserves careful attention rather than quick symbolism.

Then we widen the lens to couples counseling and intimacy. We talk about the familiar standoff of emotional connection versus physical connection, how masculine energy and feminine energy can collide, and why externalizing the solution often keeps couples stuck. Using the STIR model of personality (Stabilizer, Transformer, Initiator, Responder), we highlight blind spots that shape desire, safety, spontaneity, and the courage to say yes or no. The goal is a healthier “dance” where both people negotiate honestly and build a norm that fits their relationship.

If this conversation helps you, subscribe, share the episode with a friend, and leave a review so more people can find thoughtful, practical tools for dream interpretation, sexuality, and relationship growth.

You can connect with the cohosts through their respective websites:

AFCCounselors.com (Dr. Shalley) / https://www.inyourdreams.coach/contact (Dr. Kelley)

Transcript

Section A

SPEAKER_02 0:12

Welcome to Therapy Coaching and Dreams. My name is D. Kelly. Jim Sally is here with me. Good to see you, Jim. Good to see you, Dee. Thanks. We've been spending a little time this season on connecting dream work to the STER model of personality. And I'd like to dig into that a little bit deeper in the context of one particular subject, and that is sexuality. There are often times where a client will come in and they've had a dream that they're a little embarrassed to talk about. Sometimes it's a little easier for them to write it out. And would you read this so that we could talk about it? And that's perfectly okay. But often those dreams center around some type of sexual interaction that maybe was more enjoyable than they thought they should have experienced in the dream, or very unsettling because who the other person was. Absolutely. All kinds of emotional responses people can have. And probably my first go-to line is well, let's talk about sexuality in the dream in terms of psychological integration between you and other parts of yourself, which makes sense. You as well, if that were to occur, would that be your approach?

SPEAKER_00 1:29

Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Because it it takes away a little bit of the anxious energy that it has to do with the god guy or the woman I dreamed about. Right. Right. So I don't even I don't even like that person. What would I why would I want to yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:44

Yeah. No, I've had people that have had that, you know, that are repulsed by whatever took place. We we also I should also acknowledge that there's time when trauma from many years ago can find itself into dreams. And that's important to explore the kind of triggers that would create that dream response and to pay attention to that aspect as well. So I'm not negating that as a legitimate avenue of kind of intervention or conversation, but when it's not triggering something that's trauma related, to talk about the integration of the different parts of ourself, which can be a real positive indicator for the person that you're talking to of what's happening in their life and to alert them to some good things. I think that sometimes that can result in really good conversations of how can you keep doing what you're doing that produces that kind of response.

SPEAKER_00 2:52

Yeah, I think one of the foundational questions to ask is what does sex represent to you? What does it mean to you? And I think in that answer, but you begin to disclose what's going on or what the need is.

SPEAKER_02 3:04

So I thank you for saying that. Could you expand on that just a little bit in terms of the different responses somebody might give? So on the landscape of that question, what does that represent to you? What might be a response or two that might come out to kind of prime the pump, so to speak, of uh somebody's journey?

SPEAKER_00 3:25

For for I would say, you know, a little bit universally, men would say it it means connection. And I think for women, uh probably would uh uh in a healthy way they would probably say connection as well. And then I have to you have to expand that a little bit and say, okay, well then then in the dream, what's the lack of connection? What are you what's what are you really trying to connect to uh in that sense? Um uh it it it's it's interesting, number one, is that a lot of people find it challenging to even talk about.

unknown 4:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:01

They get very uncomfortable with it. Because they again think it has to do with, I don't know, the actual act of sex when it really, to your point, has to do with what am I trying to integrate into my life? What's missing, you know, where where do I not experience joy that I want to experience joy? Because a lot of people will say, then I'll ask the next question is what do you want it to mean? And then a lot of people will say, Well, I want to meet I want it to mean joy and and and pleasure, and but it doesn't, or whatever that is, it gets into the deeper parts of it. And so from that perspective, highly sexual dreams typically I ask again in any dream, what's the strongest part of the dream? What stands out the most? And that gives you another insight into what they're what they're really struggling with.

SPEAKER_02 4:50

Uh for my interactions, I think that's a wonderful approach that you just said. I also focus in on the partner in the dream, whatever, whoever that was, if that person represents a part of you, describe to me what that part might be. Or before I get to that question, I might say, so tell me some of the characteristics of this person in your life. And that then gives me some clues as to how then I can ask a leading question. If those characteristics are actually parts of you, tell me more about that side. Do you feel like that's developed, undeveloped, that side of you? Yeah, that's a great. So then the the issue of sexual interaction then becomes this. I mean, it could be flirtatious, it could be like uh incredibly painful or difficult. All of those adverbs that somebody might use in describing how the dream occurred then get applied to that part of you and just asking the question, so is this integration of this side of who you are, giving it a voice in your life? Is it enjoyable? Is it hard? Does it feel awkward? Are you experimenting? What does that mean to you? So it's all great. Yeah. Let's then do, though, what is the next step? If if you begin to change what's inside, it begins to change your outward behavior, like living from the inside out. There is just for many relationships, the sexual side of things is a difficult thing to address. And I have no doubt in your decades of experience that that's been a conversation that has happened many times in your office. And I'm not wanting you to go down any particular pathway just to say when that is a subject that's starting to come up, how do you get past the defenses that seem to always automatically go up between individuals that are in a relationship if you're doing a couple together, or if you're working with an individual trying to push past the first layer to get to some of the things that are behind that? Any comments?

SPEAKER_00 7:11

Yeah, the the yeah, I'll just jump in. I'm not sure this fits directly with what you're saying, but I'll just I'll just start with this. So with couples, I would say after, I don't know it it it it varies obviously, but after 10 or 15, 20 years, they've reached a different level of their relationship. And for me, talk and touch are essential. They're metaphors of of the relationship. Again, the masculine energy will probably emphasize the physical aspect, the feminine energy would emphasize the emotional or the talking aspect of it. So a man typically will come in and say there just isn't enough sexual activity. And the woman will often say, well, there isn't enough emotional activity. Now, again, that's uh I want to pull it out of male-female into masculine and feminine. The feminine energy will always want to feel emotionally connected, and the masculine energy will always want to feel physically connected. So as you integrate, you integrate your life, that's the challenge. It's like, okay, if I'm if I'm erril on one side, I'll want my physical needs met and completely accepted. I think we've talked about that in the past a little bit, that the masculine energy wants their sexual desire and drive to be completely accepted. The feminine energy wants their emotionality uh completely accepted. In my opinion, neither are realistic. No external factor can truly do that for me. Short-term, yes. That's why people pay for sex. That's why people pay for emotional connections sometimes. But that's short term. Long term in a relationship, you don't meet that need. That's why we talk about what we talk about. It's an internal journey of how do I do that. So oftentimes the standoff is for the feminine, they will say, I just don't feel emotionally connected, so I can't respond physically. And the masculine will say, I can't really be emotionally available because my physical needs aren't being met. That's a really classic dynamic in couples counseling.

SPEAKER_02 9:25

Go ahead. Yeah, would you would you say that it's fair that in most cases that will never be resolved if it remains externalized and it has the potential for some resolution if you wrestle with the internal dynamic?

SPEAKER_00 9:44

Yeah, I I would say, yeah, as long as my career has been, I'm more tempted to say, yeah, never. Oh, okay. Okay. But but I also want to give room that it's possible still, like I used to when I first started doing this. But over the years I've realized it's a pretty, it's a pretty dramatic standoff. But to your point, if both people can see that that need may not be met by the other, then you begin to negotiate in good faith because you're acknowledging the limitation. This person may not feel that. So that does that mean I need to to separate from the relationship and try somebody else? Or does it mean I need to really work harder at seeing the limitations, not as a barrier, but as an avenue of growth? Yeah. Wow. I mean, it's all it's all external. It's like, it's like when I work with with men typically that say, you know, I just my wife just won't have sex anymore. So then you go down the rabbit trail of, well, what's sex mean to you? Why is it important to you? Well, it's just my manhood. It's like that's a lot of a connection, it's my manhood. I said, Well, okay, so then you're not a man if you if all of a sudden you couldn't have sex, you're no longer a man? That's always challenging for them to process that. And I said, men emote through orgasm typically, and they feel closer. Well, the masculine does. And I said, is that real true closeness? It's like if you always met the feminine's need for emotional connection, does that fix that? No, to your point. It doesn't fix it, but can you address it in good faith as a couple? That's a lot of words there, but no, no, no.

SPEAKER_02 11:19

That was very helpful. Very helpful. The model that we've had with the stabilizer, the transformer, the initiator, and the responder. We've talked about natural attractions that take place. It seems to me that in addition to what you just said as kind of a universal masculine energy versus feminine energy, there are also unique issues related to different combinations of personality styles. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_00 11:49

Yeah. That's why it's so challenging to speak definitively in one way or the other. There's so many nuances to all of it. It's uh yeah, there's traumas, there's abuse, there's all kinds of things that affect all of that.

SPEAKER_02 12:02

So And I think one of the important pieces is that I don't know how that this always works at all, but when you think about all of those different components, the defenses start to go up. And trying to keep the conversation in a place of kindness, curiosity, gratitude, lower the flame of anger or hostility or resentment or embarrassment or all of those kinds of things changes the conversation. Like it's really difficult to have this conversation if you are in the midst of anxiety or just overt frustration, and to try and step into these conversations when you at least have the possibility of being curious or or grateful that you have somebody that you can talk to.

SPEAKER_00 12:58

I mean, remember, it it seems that that all as a as as the human nature in us on some level wants an external resolution. That's something outside of here. And and and at times that's that's certainly possible, but ultimately for for most things that have to do with self-development, is it it's an internal journey. And I think that's that's the real shift. And how do you how do you get someone to that that place and work through the defensiveness, work through that, you know, it it's it's them, it's them, it's not me. All that resistance things, that's that's part of the art of of therapy and and creating an open environment for somebody to be able to investigate that.

SPEAKER_04 13:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:42

Yeah. I'm gonna, as I've done in many episodes, I'm gonna go through the list of personality styles and just ask you if you could.

SPEAKER_00 13:52

Not to have somebody I'll ask you to.

SPEAKER_02 13:55

Okay. Not to speak about a specific individual, but just to acknowledge here's something to consider when you're thinking about intimacy, uh sexuality, that your partner may think in a different way. So let's just go through that list. The stabilizer. That individual who's struggling with this side of their life's journey, what's one of the issues that might be a blind spot for a stabilizer? And I know it would differ if they happen to be married to an initiator or married to a transformer, which is the natural attraction, being married to the transformer or a responder. But what would maybe be a blind spot for a stabilizer?

SPEAKER_00 14:41

You mean when it comes to intimacy?

SPEAKER_02 14:43

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 14:44

Okay. Enjoying it.

SPEAKER_02 14:47

As opposed to organizing it.

SPEAKER_00 14:53

Yeah, as opposed to it's something we gotta do to check off the list so everybody's happy. Yeah. So they're naturally it's really an extreme way. There are lots of stabilizers who enjoy sex, but they have to get everything done before they can really enjoy it. Oh, wow. Wow. Great point. The stabilizer has that natural attraction. I don't want to speak definitively, but most of the time, yes, tasks come first, stabilizers. So that's why if you're married to a stabilizer and you go away on vacation and they like you still, they'll be freed up to be more, uh, more physical just because they're out of their environment and they don't have anything they have to straighten up.

SPEAKER_02 15:33

Yeah. I was about to say they're naturally attracted to the spontaneity of a transformer. Yeah. It's not because they are comfortable with the spontaneity, it's just because they find that attractive.

SPEAKER_00 15:46

Yes, absolutely. And like we've said many times, the challenge is to integrate that and become more spontaneous to honor the person they're attracted to. And and and vice versa, the transformer to become more aware that I can help them do the tasks to free them up to be able to do things. Whereas a transformer would say, just let's just go have fun. We can do that later. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:08

Yeah. Well, I that would have been the next one on the list. So we've addressed the transformer.

SPEAKER_04 16:14

That's great.

SPEAKER_02 16:15

Yeah. And the third one on the list is an initiator. What's a blind spot for an initiator in this area of their life?

SPEAKER_00 16:22

Uh just creating an emotionally safe place to be intimate. Because they, you know, it's a, it's it's some to initiate, so let's go. They minimize the uh the old crock pots metaphor to call to call their the feminine side during the day and say, how was your day? And to create an environment where they're emotionally connected as opposed to I'm turned on right now, so let's have sex, which is which is what the initiator would normally do. If the white if the feminine walks in and looks really good, the initiator's ready to go. And the and the uh the uh feminine might be going like, are you serious? We're going to we're going to a party right now.

SPEAKER_02 17:04

Yeah. Yeah. But that raises a a great point that the initiator has a difficult time seeing that other side.

SPEAKER_00 17:22

Right, no, it doesn't, because it there has to be a setup because I'm attracted to you and it's good, let's go.

SPEAKER_02 17:27

Yeah. So the natural attraction for many initiators is to the responder. So what's the responder's kind of blind spot?

SPEAKER_00 17:39

Responder has to acknowledge, but they don't really want to do it. And they're accommodating the initiator, or they're accommodating someone. And they have to get in touch with, wait, do I really want to do this right now? Which is the stabilizer, which is all all the other aspects of themselves, and then to have the courage to initiate by saying, I'm not there right now.

SPEAKER_02 18:00

And and to not to not be overly apologetic. Absolutely. To just state it.

SPEAKER_00 18:06

Yeah. And that's that's a that's a hard one for those responders. Because you'll find lots of couples that will later in their relationship, they'll that responder will talk about so many times I did that when I really wasn't into it. I was just a common. If they get if they if they really grow to a a self-awareness inside, it's hard for them to do that. It's like enablers. Enablers are it's hard for them to acknowledge that they were that they had rights to say yes or no. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:34

Yeah. I think one of the wonderful things about conversations regarding sexuality is that it does expose parts of our personality and characteristics and our traits that don't show up as clearly in other conversations. And if you can step into those conversations and lower the defense mechanisms that would keep you from seeing that, you can learn more about yourself sometimes in those conversations than just about any other specific topic. So it's a great place to acknowledge that this is an important part of our growth and our experience. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_00 19:16

And again, you look at the dance, which is the important part of it, uh to take the transformer and the stabilizer, to honor both, to reiterate what I alluded to earlier, is that for the spontaneous person to just get spoiled in the beginning, because in the dating phase, that happens easily. So that energy is easily accessed for both. And then for the transformer or that that spontaneous energy to to appreciate that if they let's say they get into a permanent relationship and now the task of life and all that stuff gets in the way of that, for the transformer to realize, wait a minute, we're not we're not we're no longer dating. This is different, so how can I address their needs? And then for the stabilizer, typically the natural attraction, to honor that by still being able to be spontaneous at times. In my mind, that's that's the classic dance of intimacy, and it is a dance, and it the dance is much more effective if both can acknowledge how they interfere with the dance.

SPEAKER_02 20:20

Yeah.

unknown 20:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:21

How they interpret the dance, how they see the dance.

SPEAKER_04 20:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:24

And those conversations, I think, become easier the more you're willing to step into them. Yes. I also think that it's possible that couples come to a a norm that may be different than they expected or different than what they think others are. But if it's a norm that's comfortable to them, that's wonderful.

SPEAKER_00 20:51

Yeah, you can't emphasize that enough to where if you really are growing, then you can get to a whole different place and s and put all the baggage behind your behind you in the sense of what your expectations would have been, might have been, wanted to be, because now it's in the moment, and you're really reacting to each other as honestly as you can because you're both being pretty authentic. And that that usually that usually happens in your 90s.

SPEAKER_01 21:21

And and that's a great place to bring this to an end. A nice escape hatch for us. Thank you, Jim. Great to be with you today. Good to be with you. Thanks.

SPEAKER_02 21:41

That's it for this episode of Therapy, Coaching, and Dreams. If you're enjoying the podcast, we'd love for you to follow, rate, or share it with someone who might appreciate it as well. Thanks for being here, and until next time, keep growing, stay curious, and take good care of yourself. Yeah, now it's good stuff.