S2 E22 Pt1 When Work Breaks You (Jim & Dee)

We dig into vocational trauma and why job loss, demotions, workplace upheaval, and feeling trapped at work can shake your finances, relationships, and sense of self. We walk through what helps in the first wave of shock and how to rebuild control and identity without pretending the pain is not real.  
• definitions and real-world triggers of vocational trauma, from firings to reorganizations and workplace conflict  
• why mid-career job loss can hit harder than early career uncertainty  
• financial ripple effects 
• triage questions for a coaching session, including whether the loss was expected  
• validating shock and unfairness while finding the next best step  
• narrowing focus to what you can control today 
• external vs internal locus of control and how it shapes recovery  
• how vocational trauma can create relationship tension, resentment, and role reversals  
• identity crisis when self-worth is tied to productivity or a job title  
• doing necessary work now to protect long-term options and wellbeing  
Please join us in the next episode for part two. Until then, keep growing, stay curious, and take good care of yourself.

You can connect with the cohosts through their respective websites:

AFCCounselors.com (Dr. Shalley) / https://www.inyourdreams.coach/contact (Dr. Kelley)

Transcript

Section A

SPEAKER_01 0:09

Welcome to Therapy Coaching in Dreams. My name is D. Kelly. I'm with Jim Shalley. It's good to be with you again, Jim. Good to be with you again. We are exploring so many different aspects of life using a model of personality that we reference as the STERM model, looking at four different personality types: stabilizer, the transformer, the initiator, and the responder. And we've made some reference periodically to issues that have to do with vocation. But I'd like to like dig deep into this area of vocational trauma. I know that vocational issues are something you address regularly in your therapeutic practice. I certainly do with several clients in regard to coaching. But maybe it's probably good to start off with just a general description of vocational trauma. Trauma can come in a variety of ways vocationally. It can be because you're fired, or you've had a turnover in ownership of a company, or the organization itself is going through upheaval. It can be a change in job description. It can be a demotion. It can be major conflict in the workplace with fellow employees. So it can come in a lot of forms, but I think anybody who's been through an incredibly difficult scenario in their work life is familiar with the havoc that it can play in your life. But it's also probably important to note, as you did before we got started, that it tends to be an issue for an age group that is into their career for a while as opposed to just starting out in a career. Would you say that that's true?

SPEAKER_00 1:58

Aaron Powell Yeah, you don't know what you don't know when you're when you first start out. So yeah, I would definitely think you're you really can't it's like anything. You can't be aware of what you don't know until you know it. And so you never know the the the the corporation you're working for or anything like that until you get into it. Aaron Powell And yes, there's all kinds of different trauma that happen happens in the workplace from the statistics that suggest the majority of people don't really enjoy their jobs, and so they just hang on to jobs. They feel like they're they're trapped and they they have to have health insurance, they have to have, you know, all kinds of benefits that they can't leave, so they feel trapped. So so trauma can be very, very intense or it can be pretty subtle as far as how you experience it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:45

Well, let's talk. You kind of allude to it in the comment you just made when you talk about health insurance and steady income. When vocational something traumatic happens vocationally, where either there is a significant decrease in pay, you're forced to move from full-time to part-time, or you're forced out, you lose your job, the financial pressure creates all kinds of ripple effects, particularly if you have a family or there are others who are dependent upon your income. And that increases anxiety, stress levels exponentially, it seems to me. Oh, yeah, absolutely. Yep. So one of the one of the questions is you've got kind of three ways to look at this. How do you prepare yourself ahead of time before something like that happens, which very few people do? How do you deal with the immediate stressor? And then what are some of the coping mechanisms that help you to manage long-term movement forward? So when somebody comes just in crisis, I mean you can think about crisis in general, but specifically vocational crisis.

SPEAKER_00 4:01

For example, is give me an example of what you might be talking about.

SPEAKER_01 4:06

Well, so in industry has experienced an upheaval. And but let's talk something very current. A hi AI has caused a great reduction in the workforce at where you're employed, and your job is either on the line or you've already been let go and been given, let's say, a severance package of 30 days or two months or something like that. And somebody comes to you and said, I don't know what to do. I they I don't have any other options, I don't know where to go.

SPEAKER_00 4:43

And the it's like this, thanks for the real simple explan uh real simple problem. Great. Yeah. No, that's really that's really intense.

unknown 4:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:55

That seems and and so what do you address first? Because it hits so many parts of life. How do you help somebody focus in on the next best step?

SPEAKER_00 5:07

The first thing you have to have to assess is were they expecting it on any level? Because the trauma's more intense, obviously, if it happens out of the blue where they didn't even expect it. And so you you you assess that initially. And lots of times they'll say, well, you know, people talked about it, there was an inclination to it. And then occasionally there'll be completely surprised, like, you know, somebody came in and bought the company and everybody was let go, or and that that kind of shock, it's almost like dealing with sudden death in some ways. And that's always the hardest thing. And what are your options? So you have to really spend a lot of time just being with the individual and and trying to get trying to help them be so I mean, the the the balance is sitting with it while not getting caught up in it and trying to process through the pain of it again without feeling like it's the rest of your life. So always you try to reframe it in some way that not right away, but at some point you start pointing out things that have survived, things that have happened to them to give them a context that life. But initially it's just validating the incredible trauma, surprise, unfairness of it, whatever how however their emotions are, experiencing it, to let them express express those. That's great, Jim.

SPEAKER_01 6:31

I I think that in those moments, whether somebody puts these words to it or not, there is a a feeling that you have lost control. You've lost control of the storyline, you've lost control of your destiny, you've lost control of things that you thought were stable and and steady.

SPEAKER_00 6:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:54

And so is is not part of the journey to kind of methodically, I guess, begin to identify what they still control, like the things that you can do in these moments.

SPEAKER_00 7:08

Right. Yeah, exactly. You have to address something to break it down. Because a lot of times they are they're overwhelmed. How am I going to pay the bills? What's going to happen to the kids' insurance? All that stuff begins to kind of overwhelm you. So you have to break it down and say, okay, what can you control today, to your point? And you know, the other part of it is at some point, when people finally kind of have a perspective, at some point, most of the time they'll say, you know, it's really interesting. We really have very little control in our lives, don't we? And that that's the ultimate angst or existential crisis is realizing what really do we have control over? And of course we have control over some things to manage, but ultimately things can happen out of the blue that that will set our course a different direction.

SPEAKER_01 7:55

I think it comes back to something that you brought up in a, I think, season one, but is the significant difference between what's called an external locus of control where you think that everything is out there to an internal locus of control where you believe that nobody can take away my sense of self, nobody can destroy my identity. And and there is in moments like this, an internal locus of control seems to add to the recovery in a much more significant way than somebody who is being overwhelmed by the outward circumstances and what they can't do or can't control.

SPEAKER_00 8:39

Which is a really larger conversation. Like, can you move someone from being externally locus of control to internal? I think you can, but I think it's and life almost always does that to it, is if we're growing and developing into a a full human being, we take responsibility for the choices we make as best we can. And yeah, that's the internal. But if you're really an extrovert who just lives to please others or is just externally driven, that's pretty tough because the external circumstances dictate the quality of my life to some degree. And so to get them to understand that wait a minute, what do you what do you have control over? Well, the corporation did this, the boss did this, you know, then it's it's a fine line between that and going into a victim victimization or victim mentality to where life just happens to me and I have no control. Much as why I think people do well if they to seek some form of therapy or coaching to help them through that. It's so easy to just uh to kind of for lack of a better way of describing it, feel sorry for yourself and kind of wallow in it, uh, as opposed to thinking, okay, wait a minute, I gotta do something here.

SPEAKER_01 9:46

Yeah. Yeah, it's easy to become stagnant to give up and to kind of stop trying.

SPEAKER_00 9:54

I have no control. So especially if and this is the uh a tough case, but it especially if your spouse has a pretty decent job and you're just discouraged and you just kind of like, you know what? Okay, we'll we'll survive here. I'm just gonna like not worry I'm not gonna not gonna focus on much right now. Then it can become more of a lifestyle. Like, why would I try again? It's again, depending on your age.

SPEAKER_01 10:20

In that scenario, you then have one of the many ripple effects of vocational trauma, and that is that the tension that begins to exist within relationships where resentment can set in. You're not even trying, could be the viewpoint of a spouse.

SPEAKER_00 10:38

Absolutely. Absolutely true. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:40

And and then that becomes another layer of conflict and pain and difficulty.

SPEAKER_00 10:46

Yeah, let's say I'm a let's say I'm a guy who, you know, pretty a nice guy, pretty passive, kind of fell into a to a job, pretty good job. I'm I'm selling some stuff and it's just going pretty well. And but I'm not passionate about it. It's just something I do, and then I lose my job. I lose the job. And I'm now, you know, 52 or 53, and my wife has a pretty good job, and I'm thinking, you know, I don't, I don't, I don't want to work. And yeah, that can absolutely cause great stress. Because he's not gonna admit that, number one, probably. But the movement would suggest he's kind of comfortable and I didn't really like my job anyway, and I'm kind of relieved. And now I'm just out, you know, cutting grass and having a good time, which isn't a good or bad. I'm just saying, to your point, depending on the spouse, the wife could become, well, you're not even you're not gonna work again? Well, yeah, no, no, I'll work again. Yeah. So it could cause a lot of and again, that's that exposes the expectations of any relationship. And that's really what trauma, usually what trauma does.

SPEAKER_01 11:49

Yeah. Yeah. Again, this is something that we've mentioned, but maybe not in this context. And that is where we find our identity. I think very often the masculine side of an individual doesn't necessarily need to be male or female, but the masculine side of an individual often goes down the pathway of connecting their identity to what they do. Because the masculine side is task-driven. Right. And so I I am what I produce or I am what my vocation is. And so if there is some type of vocational situation where what you do is removed from you, there is not simply a financial crisis, but there's an identity crisis. Like who am I then? And then that poses an entirely different pathway of discovery or struggle as you try and figure out who you are in the midst of that.

SPEAKER_00 13:01

Yeah, the f the the taking that all the way to a to the extreme, it would be like, let's say uh the feminine, the woman typically has a really good job, making pretty good money, but they don't really want it, they really don't want to do that. And now we have a man who lost his job who I need to get in the more feminine mode of realizing the relationships are really important. So now you have a you you flipped everything. He's in a role that he doesn't like, and she's in a role she doesn't like, and yet and they they can't talk about it. So you have a really, a really tough relationship because she's basically saying, well, get a job. And he's saying, you know, I kind of just want to still raise the kids. And it's like, well, okay, how do we do this? Yeah. So those emotional role reversals are really challenging. It's again, especially if the man is defined that way and loses his job and doesn't want to be redefined as relationally driven and take care of the kids, but he's also discouraged and he's has a tough time finding a job. Then you have a wife who's working but doesn't really want to be working, wants to be home with the kid. Yeah, it there's all kinds of different dynamics and relationships that cause, from my perspective, and I think yours as well, an opportunity. This is this is gonna sound like psychobabble, but but it's an opportunity to really discover who I am. And I think that's where if you can get someone to begin to see that the journey of life is larger than the job, larger than raising a ki raising kids or whatever, it's it's about self-discovery. Then you think, okay, wow, I thought I'd have this job forever, and now I don't. Well, who am I? What am I yeah, how do yeah, what do I do? Very traumatic in that sense.

SPEAKER_01 14:46

Yeah. Yeah. I also think it leads to a very simple conversation that certainly has some complicated outgrowths of it, but that everyone does things they don't like to do so that they can have an opportunity to do the things they do like to do. So if you had a job you loved and you lost it, okay, I get it. That's traumatic. But sometimes the answer is not waiting for five years till you can find a job that you love so much, but is to do something that maybe is not your favorite, but solves several of the tension, difficult problems that you face, financial or relationally, so that you can continue to do some of the things that you love and rediscover an identity that is something different than a vocational identity. It may be that a vocational identity comes back and becomes important once again, which is great. That happens for some people, but it doesn't happen for everyone. It's true.

SPEAKER_00 15:51

It does it can like any trauma, it's how you respond to it. And does it open you up to a broader life or does it shut you down to a more restrictive things? And I think that's why it's so important to process the trauma. I I I saw a clip last night where one of the best questions you can ask when you're dating someone is to have them describe their worst trauma that they're comfortable with sharing, how they've responded to it, and how it affects their interactions with others. It's like, okay, that's that on the first date. Yeah. It's like, okay, that's a little personal, isn't it? Yeah. How'd that go? But but the but the point being, at some point, yeah, that's that's a great question to see how aware you are of how things are affecting you.

SPEAKER_01 16:46

Yeah, because those those moments form you, and to hear the story of what you did with that trauma tells a whole lot about a person and whether you're compatible. That's a great question.

SPEAKER_00 16:59

Aaron Powell Absolutely true. Yeah. The other thing too that I remember I think I think the former CEO of General Electric 100 years ago wrote a book, and in that book, he basically said one of the best gifts I can give you is to fire you from a job you're not suited for. Because it does exactly what you say. It opens someone up then to maybe pursue something that's more compatible. But easy for him to say it. If it happens to you, it's like, whoa. And I think I've worked with some people that have been relieved that they got let go. Because of the very thing they couldn't do it themselves, but it did give them permission to do something different. Again, again, the response is classic, it's common sense, but it's how you respond to those things that are so important.

SPEAKER_01 17:48

Yeah. It it's often when people look back years later and say, yeah, it was very difficult, but it was so helpful to where I ended up being. Yeah, so true.

SPEAKER_00 17:59

You can't see it at that point.

SPEAKER_01 18:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:01

And it's probably not you don't want to say that too soon as a coach or a therapist.

SPEAKER_01 18:07

That's exactly what I was about to say. You might want to avoid commenting about that until several years have passed.

SPEAKER_00 18:16

Yeah. They come in the first session, you go, no, I think it's a good thing. I think it was a good thing.

SPEAKER_01 18:32

Knowing what a horrible fit the job was, or the many times we talked about how difficult the work environment was, in my head I'm thinking, okay, this is the opportunity you've been waiting for, but we can't talk about that yet. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:47

Absolutely true. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 18:59

That's it for part one of this two part series on vocational trauma. Please join us in the next episode for part two. Until then, keep growing, stay curious, and take good care of yourself. Yeah, now it's good stuff.