Ep #7 - Pioneers with Purpose: UHigh Admin on Leadership

What happens when a high school runs inside a major university—and doesn’t even own many of its athletic facilities? We invited U‑High’s principal Andrea Markert, assistant principal Brian Rohman, and athletic and activities director Steve Evans to share how they lead a K–12 lab school that answers to ISU policies while serving students, families, teachers, and pre‑service educators.

If you care about how schools innovate under real constraints, this conversation will give you a front-row seat to the tradeoffs, the wins, and the big vision. Subscribe, share with a colleague, and leave a review with your answer to this question: if resources were no object, what would you build first for students?

Transcript

Meet The U‑High Admin Team

Andy Goveia 0:08

Today we're sitting down with the administrative team from University High School. That's Mrs. Andrea Markert, Mr. Brian Roman, Mr. Steve Evans. They're here for a conversation about leadership, fun, and the joy that it is to lead in this system. I'm Andy Gobay. And I'm Ben Webb. And this is Live in the Lab Schools. We are here. We've got the administrative team from University High School in studio with us. Five microphones today. Ben got it done. We're excited to have them here.

Ben Webb 0:48

Yeah. I'm glad you're excited because I spent a lot of time with these people. So it's for me, it's like, hey, I see you every day. So for you, it's like this is great. New people. Um so uh just kind of going around the room. We've already heard once from Andrea Markert, who's our principal. Andrea, how are you? I'm great, thanks. Awesome. Uh and then we've got two other people who are laughing off camera. Once we do videos, this is gonna get even better. So uh continuing on, Mr. Roman, how are you, sir?

Brian Rohman 1:17

I'm doing well. How are you doing today, Mr. Webb?

Ben Webb 1:19

Oh, it's it's great. I'm doing great. And then laughing the most out of all of us, Mr. Steve Evans, our athletic director. How are you, sir?

Steve Evans 1:26

Great. I don't know why I just waved, but no great. You just waved. Cool.

Andy Goveia 1:33

Uh so I guess first question. Here you go. So we open this is kind of how we always open the podcast. Who are you? How did you end up in this job? Mrs. Marker, we got that from you on admissions. But if you could just really quick remind us who you are, what you do here? Andrea Marker, I'm the principal. Mr. Roman, who are you? Welcome. How'd you get here?

Brian Rohman 1:51

Uh Brian Roman, I'm the assistant principal. Um, I've been in the lab schools for the last uh this is year 11. I was in the English department uh for nine years, and then last year I stepped into the role of interim assistant principal, and then I was hired as the official assistant principal this year.

Andy Goveia 2:08

Awesome, Mr. Evans.

Steve Evans 2:10

Uh yes, I am Steve Evans. I'm the director of athletics and activities. This is my 20th year uh here at the lab schools at UI. First six years I taught biology. I was a member of the freshman program for a while, and then I became the assistant principal for eight years, and this is my sixth year as the athletic director and activities director.

Ben Webb 2:32

So, okay, what go through that?

Career Paths And Roles

Steve Evans 2:34

You started as I so 2006 is when I started. I was a biology teacher, and then about three years into that, we got biology, got moved into the freshman program. So now I was a member of the freshman program, and I taught for six years, got my type signing five, my master's over there at ISU, and then became the assistant principal, did that for eight, and then I switched over and became my current role.

Ben Webb 2:58

So how so the long haul to get to the dream job?

Steve Evans 3:03

I mean, I appreciate using the word dream. So uh, but yeah, no, I'm just teasing. Uh definitely got there. Um, because obviously, for many of us, we were UHI is not our first job. So we we all, especially I've worked with Andrea, her and I taught biology together as well. So we had jobs prior to a different at different schools, but this was kind of the path, yeah. Come in and the education, and then we kind of worked, you know, getting our type 75, and it just worked out to where we were able to be administrators here at the lab schools.

Ben Webb 3:28

Very cool. And so wait, you so wait, you didn't want to be assistant principal, but you wanted to be assistant principal.

Brian Rohman 3:35

We'll go with that. Uh no, so I was working on my uh my administrative license and the principal prep program, uh, and I was the English department chair at the time, um, working and kind of going through both. And then the opportunity came up and I started actually talking to Steve about it because you know, the the benefit in my role is actually the two people I work with on the team have been in my job before. Um, so if I have a question, hey, what'd you guys do about it? You know, they're there. Um, and so that's nice, but just started doing some soul searching um as I was working on that uh admin uh degree, master's degree, and started talking to Steve and Andrew about it when the interim position was posted and threw my hat in the ring and the rest is history.

Ben Webb 4:20

So, really assistant principal handed down, handed down. Andy, you're next with that.

Andy Goveia 4:24

No, that's no, that's no. I don't have that certification, nor am I working on that certification.

Ben Webb 4:29

The power of yet.

Andy Goveia 4:31

Yeah, the power of yet. Um as we this is what a day to record this episode. Um as we think about your jobs, people generally I think know what an AD does, what a principal does, what an assistant principal does. But could you all walk us through what is it about your role here at UHI that makes your job different from what an AD or an assistant principal like what is unique about your job because that job is here?

Steve Evans 4:57

Do you want us to speak in our current roles that we're in or the roles we've served before? I mean, do you want Mr. Roma just to focus who is his principals? Because we all probably have our own opinion about how was serving those roles.

What Makes A Lab School Different

Andrea Markert 5:09

Take it take us through your sure, take us through it. Well, I think the biggest thing, first of all, is that we are a K-12 school existing in a university environment. Um, so while that has a lot of positives, it also um has some negatives in the rules that we have to follow or the policies that we have to follow that are university policies that other school districts may not have to follow. Um and so I think that's like the biggest difference in our jobs is that we have to fit into these university policies. And I'll give an example in the principal's job for hiring. Um so we have to go through the university to hire people, which means we have to follow their policies on posting it for a certain amount of time, bringing candidates in, you know, having two different rounds or agreeing to only do one round. And then it just takes longer to go through all of that process, and then it takes longer to hire the person because of the fit paperwork that they have to fill out and everything. It's not housed in our area. That's housed in HR and ISU. So we don't have as much control over the time frame and everything. So that would be an example of something that just takes a little bit longer because we're using a different system than a typical K-12 school system would use.

Brian Rohman 6:36

Uh I think from the assistant principal role, I what I've learned in talking to other system principals elsewhere is uh that role really is unique to each school, right? So you might have assist, but it's it's usually more focused, right? So schools, unless it's a smaller school, even I'd say smaller than you high, you might have a focus of, okay, you're an assistant principal for discipline, you're an assistant principal for curriculum to assist the principal and helping departments build that curriculum out. Um, you're gonna help build the culture of the school. And here you're kind of a jack of all trades. So um rather than, you know, actually, Steve, when I was when I was talking to him about the role and after I got the interim role, you know, he kind of used this metaphor of other places you're gonna be eating the same thing every single day, right? It might be discipline and evals, discipline and evals, and that's it, or you know, evals and curriculum, evals and curriculum, evals and testing, whatever it might be. But here, every day really is something a little bit different. So, really, there's like five, four or five big areas that the assistant principal oversees. So um it's managing the building. So working with, and and back to Andrea's point about what is it like in that university system, you know, somewhere else, we would have a janitorial staff we'd work with. We'd be able to go directly to them with a contract that our board of education has negotiated and have really direct conversations, but we're separated because that's another area on campus. And so that creates some frustrations for myself, for the folks in the building when things aren't cleaned properly, aren't done on the schedule we're promised, things like that. Um, so you know, so build overseeing the facility, um, obviously some teacher evaluation, student discipline. Um, but it's just it's it's there's just a lot, it's just it's more vast than I think a typical 80 position is in that regard.

Steve Evans 8:28

Yeah, I pick back all that. It's just literally like it's eating at a buffet. Like and you gotta eat it all too. I mean, you can't just pick and choose what you don't want to eat, you know what I'm saying? You can't go after your favorite meal. So, like it is just the extra layer. I think that's what makes the lab school so unique. Um, but it also is what makes it so intriguing is there's is that extra layer of that partnership that we have with ISU that can also come with some hoops that we might have to jump through that you might not normally have to do that at any other school or any other districts. So it's kind of hard when you're not really walking a mile and there's other district shoes, but it's what we've done and what we have to do is you gotta know who to talk to, who to ask, what you know, what policies and procedures you gotta follow. And so what you could get done in a regular time frame in another school, you might you have to have a different mindset here. Like you're you're gonna have to know what you have to do, who you gotta connect through, make sure you're dotting your I's and crossing your T's. So it's it's a little bit unique here, but I mean it's kind of also the partnership with ICU makes it intriguing.

Andy Goveia 9:35

So Mr. Evans, let's stick with that for a second. If let's say you want to schedule a practice, a game, if if you this was Unit 5, anyone in the area, you've got a ball field right out back that is yours. You walk out there, you can put his flag in it, it's yours. Correct. When it comes to scheduling and getting events like that done for our teams when you aren't in this building, what does that look like for you and your role? And what why is that so different from other schools?

Steve Evans 10:01

Well, I think what makes it different is that we have that partnership with ISU. We don't have our own facilities for certain athletics or uh other extracurriculars. So, for example, if we would talk about anything indoors, the the theater, the the gyms, easy. I can do that, I can create it so on and so forth. Softball, uh, I have to work with town of normal. Cross country, gotta work with town of normal. So you're constantly having to build a relationship with the town of normal, which is a different entity than Illinois State University. Swimming, football, baseball, all and golf is all I has to work with Illinois State University. So, um, for example, I can work on a varsity baseball schedule and they play at Duffy Bass, and I can get that done whenever I want, right? As quick as possible. Doesn't matter. Because I have to wait for the ISU schedule, home schedule to be done, and then I have to recreate our schedule based on their schedule because they get the priority for Duffy Bass. Um, Uh Soccer field, it's our own land on Adelaide Street across from the golf course. Very simple, we can manage that. So it's it's it's very unique. I'm not gonna lie to you. Does it get difficult? Absolutely. At times it's very stressful, but I think the more it's like anything in life, the more practice you get at something, and if you're highly organized, then you're able to pull it off. But you have to be patient, you gotta wait for the response, and you're not gonna get it done as quick as you want it done. But it's it's very unique. Whereas if I'm at Unify, for the example you used, I could just go out, manage my own stuff, get it done, and you don't really have this uh extra layer of approval that you need to go through. Like even for practices, I have to email ISU and do all my requests for the pool, requests for Hancock Stadium. I gotta work around their schedules. Um and it's it takes a lot of flexibility, and I will give our coaches and our supervisors and uh all those individuals for the sponsors of those areas a lot of patience. They've been very good to work with here at UI because they understand the flexibility you have to have because we might get pulled out of a field right then and there. Yeah, it's difficult, it's very difficult. Track especially.

Andy Goveia 12:12

Oh well, yeah, I just you know that yeah, I I coached junior high track for two years. I we were at the mercy of the hour that ISU didn't need it or you guys didn't need it, or vice versa. And we're all just sharing. One day we shared the track, and that was that was kind of fun.

Assistant Principal: Jack Of All Trades

Steve Evans 12:25

Right. You have to be flexible and you have to share. Like if you're able to do that, we you can be successful here, but if you're uh unwilling to do that, it can be a very difficult time for individuals.

Andy Goveia 12:35

Yeah. Andrea, you talked about hiring being something that's really different because it's not managed in the same way other schools might be. Is there something that you think, though, that process gives an advantage to, where that difference helps us in some way?

Andrea Markert 12:51

Well, I mean, I think, yeah, definitely an advantage is we're well known for the work that we do with pre-service teachers. And so I think that um we are able to get maybe a wider pool of applicants because they want to be able to work with the next generation of teachers and help shape that. So that's one thing. Um, another thing I think that we get from ISU is we do have really good benefits, and so I think that helps attract people, you know, our insurance benefits, our um our days off, we get personal plus time. No other school district gets personal plus time days, so or hours, whatever you want to call it, but it's 40 of them, so it's a lot. Um, so you know, there are definitely things that attract people here. Also, the other thing, another benefit we get is we get free tuition and fees up to eight hours a semester. And so if you're pursuing a master's degree, which we require, or if you're pursuing a doctorate or an additional certification or something, you can do that with no cost to yourself. So that's another big thing that helps. Um, I think another thing that could help too is they do a good job of putting out the jobs and listing them in a lot of different places. Sometimes that's a positive and sometimes it's a negative because sometimes it's a higher ed place, and then people think they're applying for an ICU job instead of a high school job.

Andy Goveia 14:18

And they wonder where their undergraduate course load is.

Andrea Markert 14:21

Exactly. Um, but then sometimes people see that and they really, you know, want to be high school teachers, and that's a positive for us as well.

Andy Goveia 14:28

So, Mr. Roman, you talked about facilities, the building being one of your responsibilities. That's not typical in a lot of schools where the assistant principal is coordinating logistics of a chemistry lab makeover, for example, or upgrading different pieces. Could you talk about what that piece of your job looks like and why it's I imagine sometimes really cool, but also you might run away screaming someday from it.

Athletics Without Home Facilities

Brian Rohman 14:54

Oh, absolutely. And actually, I mean, there just to just to show how long something can take, that extra layer with ISU is there are projects that Steve started when he was assistant principal that I just finished last year. So we got an outdoor water fountain, for example, out by our tennis courts, which is great needed, you know, greatly needed. Um, and we finally got to a point where the last quote I was looking at was a couple of years old, and we finally had the money to pull the trigger on it. Um, and they actually then had to like retest the water just to make sure it was still okay. The lines were still good and all that kind of stuff. So, you know, it's it's definitely something where the length of time can be a lot, and part of that comes from just funding sources, right? It's not, you know, unit five has the that in 87 have that ability to now collect that one penny tax. Unit five a couple of years ago just went through, hey, we're broke. We need more funding. Will you give us more of your tax money? And unit five voters said yes, right? So that gives them that ability to, when they need to make facility renovations, they can do it. Whereas our process really has to take a little extra time because we don't have just a chunk, a big, big chunk of money, right? We get some money every year to make some upgrades. There's certain things that happen that ISU will cover and help us out with, you know, this thing happened. We have to do it for safety, so they're gonna take care of it. Um, those those sorts of things. But when we need to just make some upgrades, right, we're at the whim of being able to see what we can make piece together internally, but also what can we then fundraise from donors and through other funding efforts. And so I think just the time from beginning to completion is a lot. I also think balancing that when, you know, other districts have someone at the district level that's in charge of it of that for all facilities, right? So a building principal, and I'm even saying building principal, not an assistant principal, is going to go to a district meeting and say, here's my wish list. What can you, you know, where can I get on the wish list? And then over two or three years, those items on the wish list start to get knocked out. And that's just not the case here, where it's falling on the assistant principal to listen, right? Sit down with our team, figure out what are some needs. Steve and I actually work together because he he's been around so much and knows the athletics areas so much better than I do, that he kind of has his athletics wish list, right? I can kind of form my classroom, hallway, other type area facility wish list. And then we have to communicate that to Andrea, and then she has to kind of prioritize that and communicate that up. And so I kind of become the conduit for that too. Um, also, it's not just as simple as saying, hey, we want to do list, let's, you know, let's pull the trigger. We also have to go through ISU's procurement process because we're a state agency with state using state funds. And so that request, you know, we have to do a project request. There has to be several meetings before we can even get a number. Then we have to work towards that number. And so I will say finishing something feels great. Getting to the finish line is enough to, you know, make my hair probably look like Steve's right here in a few years, and that's where the video would really come in handy down the road to it.

Steve Evans 17:57

So the audience knows it's more gray.

Andrea Markert 17:59

It's not even gray anymore. You're right. Well, at the top is gray and then white on the sides.

Brian Rohman 18:03

And in one year I would say my hair's gotten grayer. So, you know, give me eight and we'll we'll do we'll do a comparison and thinner. So we'll do some comparison.

Ben Webb 18:12

It's a nice way of saying you've been around here for a long time. That was a nice way of I caught that. But how does that make you feel that he's getting all this? He's getting all these accolades for like, oh, he got these bleachers and he got these new lights.

Steve Evans 18:23

And let him let him have it all. He can have all the glory. No, it's good. I mean, it I it's it's it's so hard, Andy. Your question, you know, asking us to compare to to other admin jobs at other schools, it's just it's it's so different. We haven't left it though, so we're either crazy or you know, or stupid, but either way, we're still here. I like that those are the options crazy or something. It makes you wonder, but I mean it's it's just it's so unique, yeah. Because there's so many layers, it it's not an easy job, and I don't think anyone will ever tell you that teaching's not easy. I mean, it's just it's so difficult at times to just get something done that you want it, but at the same time, like Andrea alluded to how she opened it up, was like the partnership with ISU does open a lot of avenues for us, so and then and there's a lot of perks to it as well. So it's just I mean, if you're patient and you understand the system, and I think that is something that's the most unique, is actually learning the lab school system because it's so much different than uh the other public schools.

Ben Webb 19:25

Well, and you kind of talked about mindset, so like when it comes to the three of you, I assume you are a unified team, you never have disagreements, but I'm also maybe assuming like there's three of you, so that means there's a built-in tiebreaker.

Andy Goveia 19:39

So, like, what is the team approach that you guys say someone comes in and watches the three of you for a day as a team? Oh, what is what is that? What would they take away from your approach as an admin team? I I do they know us or not know us. I think that's I assume they understand you're either crazy or stupid, and they start there.

Steve Evans 19:57

I mean, if you're only to be completely honest, if you're just talking about. Us three, and again, I can say this confidently because Andrew and I have worked together for a long time.

Andrea Markert 20:04

20 years almost.

Steve Evans 20:05

You will see two and Brian's more that tiebreaker. Uh, and he's still, you know, this is year two for him. But you Andrea and I will be very transparent with each other. Yeah. To where if you are a bystander, you might be like, What is going on here? Do these two even get along at times? Because I've I will say my honest opinion, she'll say her honest opinion. And then we at the at the end of it all, though, we completely understand each other and we can't agree to disagree. Um, and Brian will just sit back and be like, Are these two literally just fighting in front of me? Or but uh but it's not always like that, it's not always like that at all.

Ben Webb 20:35

I like how you were introduced as like not like young and not jaded yet.

Steve Evans 20:40

Well, actually, I told him two years ago, I said, Hey, when he first came on board, I'm like, hey, just sometimes sit back because Ayner and I have years of trust with each other. And I think when you said you asked about unified, us three, we do have to be unified. Um, you have you have each other's back. If there's something that we do disagree with, we actually talk about that in obviously in a confined space of trust, and we understand how each other feel because all three of us, what we all three have in common is we are passionate about this job, and we truly care about the teachers and our students. So, like, that is the common thread that all three of us have. We love this place, we're passionate, and we want the best for every individual in this in UI. Um, but we don't always agree, Andy.

Andy Goveia 21:24

No, we don't Ben said you did. I never said that.

Ben Webb 21:28

One of my favorite things to do is like play dumb or set people up so that yeah, just the same way you do in class. Oh, yeah. Like you introduce it as like, am I wrong? And then the kids get to say, Yeah, you're wrong. This podcast is a pedagogical experiment. Exactly. Perfect. But what else would we see?

Funding, Timelines, And Facilities

Brian Rohman 21:42

To the to what Steve was talking about, like the the sitback. I've I've uh described it as like I was the the child that came much later in our parents' life, and they're the brother and sister that have this great rapport. And so they fight like that because they have that trust and and know that at the end of the day they care about each other and that they've worked together professionally for so long. So I just sit back and kind of wait, wait it out. And it it was an adjustment. At first, I was like, wait, do they what what did I get myself into? And I realized over time it's just how they communicate with each other. Um, but I also think like what makes what I like about working on this team is if I have an idea, even if it's going to be the worst idea in the world, or the answer is no, I still have the space and I've built we've built the trust and and I appreciate the trust that has been given to me kind of reciprocally to come in and say, here's the idea, what do we think? And if the answer is no, great, right? And if the answer is yeah, let's try it. And if it fails, which is usually the outcome, which I also appreciate that I've got the space and to to try some different things out and see how they work and make adjustments, um, that there's the space for that too.

Andrea Markert 22:46

And I feel really lucky because you don't want to be on a team of people that just agree all the time. I mean, that is would be the worst type of team to be on. And we certainly don't have that. And so, you know, they have better ideas than I do sometimes. Not always, but sometimes. Um, you know, and and I love hearing their ideas and how that would work and things that I've never thought of, you know. So, and it's nice when you give an idea and people are like, well, no, that's not gonna work because of this. And we might just agree to disagree, but you know, we walk, like as Steve said, we walk away knowing we're really doing the best we can and we're really passionate about our jobs.

Steve Evans 23:26

Never take no one ever's, I mean, in all the years, never taken anything personally. And ultimately, like one thing that Brian and I both understand there is a hierarchy. Let's call it like it is. We can come up with great ideas, but at the same time, Andrew's the building principal. The building principal, all right, gets blamed for everything and hardly ever gets its successes. If you think about it. I mean, that's just how it's been, and it's just called leadership. Okay, I'm not asking if anyone feels sorry for her, it's part of the job. I can take it, right? But I mean, we know, like in our in our meetings or whatever agendas or anything we're talking about, ultimately it's still gonna be a herd decision. Um, and we get that no matter what. That's why it's so easy to agree to disagree, and we can table things, but it's sometimes it goes very smooth and sometimes it's bumpy, but that's just part of leading.

Andrea Markert 24:11

Well, and I will say, like, you know, Steve and I have been working together for 20 years. He knows how to work me. Like, he like plants the little seed. I know you're doing it. You know, he plants the little seed and then he comes back to it a little bit late. Like, he knows. Yeah, so yeah, yeah, you gotta be. Sometimes I'll even be like, Yeah, I saw that. I heard I heard that seed plant right there. You gotta do not it.

Andy Goveia 24:33

I know. Oh, I know how it is. So what do you just try? I gotta try everything, right? This I love this.

Ben Webb 24:40

I mean, my favorite part of that was seeing the two of them go back and forth, but then seeing Brian in the middle of the watching. He's literally just doing that thing that he was explaining. Like, okay.

Andy Goveia 24:49

He understood his role was just to moderate, really.

Steve Evans 24:51

Okay, well, first of all, he now year two, he's just not always quiet. He's getting a lot more confident, he's come up with way, a lot, a lot of ideas.

Andy Goveia 25:00

And well, he had to drop the interim tag first. He had to make it. He had to make sure he signed that. So when you think about your time, and and I think we've all been here a while now in different roles, right? Like thinking about the lab schools, and it could be UI specific, it could be lab school specific. One thing we're trying to tap into in all these interviews with people the first time around is what do you love about this place? But what we want to focus on now really quick is what are what's a unique challenge you see for us because of who we are in our situation? And the three of you, I think, have done a beautiful job today explaining the layers of complexity to this this place that we're a vibrant place, but we're a complex place. And so, like, what unique challenges based on your role and what you do here, what or your or your whole time here? What's a unique challenge you think we face as lab schools?

Ben Webb 25:48

And that can be a general, or that can be like, oh, here's the example that is coming to mind. And if I was anywhere else, it wouldn't be this way. But because I'm here, I have this unique challenge.

How The Team Makes Decisions

Brian Rohman 26:02

I for me, going back to the facility component of things, I we have great curriculum, we have great educators, we have great kids, we have great families, right? We the what like the lab schools themselves can really sell themselves, but my big concern is when we look at facilities and we look at the aging of facilities and when we go to other places, you know. I actually had a parent of UhI alums recently say their kid kind of reflected when they saw the upgrades to the school they would have gone to. Why didn't I go to that school? And I think at the end of the day, they would have realized the experience they had here was worth it. But when you're talking about, at least, you know, for you know obviously when you're talking about Metcalf, those kids are are not the parents are making that decision for the kid. But when you're talking about a 14-year-old, the parents are making part of the decision, but so is the kid. And so if you're talking about, hey, I can make the decision between going to the place that looks new and shiny versus the place that I think I'll have a good experience, but doesn't look so new and shiny, to me, that I think is a the optics of it. So I think the unique challenge that we have on the you high side of things is how do we make sure that we still are highlighting everything else and then making sure we're taking the opportunities to renovate when we're able to. And whether that's full renovation or even small scale, getting some new furniture in our library, uh, making sure signage in the hallway looks up to date and modern and those, and even on the exterior of the building. So I think that facility and the funding for that facility is really for me, um, in my role, kind of that unique challenge I see.

Ben Webb 27:41

Making sure that the people in the picture shine brighter than the building behind that may or may not look the same as it did a few years ago. Sure.

Andrea Markert 27:49

Yeah. Um, I think a unique challenge is that we have a lot of expectations put on us um from a lot of different people, you know, from families, from the university, from ourselves. We have a group of really high achieving, um, really hardworking people here. And so I think a unique challenge is finding enough time in the day or over the course of a year to, you know, teach our courses. I'm gonna do this at the teacher level, but it's also at our level too, you know, work with pre-service teachers, work with departments in the university, um, do research. Like, where do you even find the time to do research? Go out and work with other school districts and present. So all of those things are kind of expectations. They're on evaluation systems, I mean, they're on teacher evaluations, they're on evaluations for us as well. And so I think finding the time, I mean, I don't think any educator ever has enough time in the day, but we have this additional layer of expectations on us that um other school districts may not have. I mean, which are fantastic opportunities as well. So there's that side of it. You know, we get to go, you know, travel and see other lab schools and go do some amazing things and work with some amazing people outside of here as well, but it it's a time constraint.

Unique Challenges: Balance And Expectations

Steve Evans 29:13

No, I completely agree. I mean, it's just so it's it's hard, it's unique. I mean, you asked the question what are some of the unique concerns or issues that we have to deal with. It's just I don't know, it's everything. It's literally here's the biggest challenge. It's the balance. It's the balance of everything. Balancing the the culture that we want to have and establish and then sustaining it. It's the balance of the constant turnover of the leadership that we've worked with at the hierarchy of the of our levels. So it's their vision, their message, you know, what it's it's the constant balance of uh the budget or the inconsistencies within the budget, which then all of a does it does snowball down to Andrew's level and then my level of what I we can get away with, the charges that ISU wants to get to us, uh the facilities that Brian's trying to upgrade, and everything else you guys are trying to do over at Metcalf. So I mean it it's a I think just the challenge, the uniqueness is finding the balance so you're not burning out your teachers and asking them to do extra duties, or always trying to come stay relative because we are a lab school, whether that's the facility upgrades or any other type type of initiatives. It's a constant challenge because we always got to make sure that uh we're doing this balance and meeting these ISU policies and procedures, but making sure our teachers have what they want to where they can still teach because that's what we are. I mean, that's the true foundation of what we why we exist is teaching the kids. And that's gonna be why our kids always come to UHI and Matt Catholic lab schools. But it the challenge is the balance. And it's money, it's facilities, it's staying relative, it's curriculum, it's personnel, it's the relationship with ISU. And it gets hard. I'm not gonna lie, it's been hard, it gets harder, uh, and it all deals with people and turnover and different visions and philosophies, and and I think that is one of the biggest challenges here is the constant changes that have happened, and then we always are trying to still keep the foundations and the fundamentals of what we were told and hired and what the lab schools are, especially over here uh at the UHI port. And it's just it's a constant, it's a constant challenge, and it is something that I think that'll always be a challenge here.

Ben Webb 31:32

So, okay, perfect world. I've got Andy's checkbook. Okay, so money's not a problem.

Steve Evans 31:38

I like it.

Ben Webb 31:40

What should the lab schools look like in that perfect world, considering you guys have been here long enough to where you can kind of know what because here's the thing you are the leaders that are steering the ship of Theseus. So my question to you is if money's not the option, if time's not the option, where do we go? What is what's the target we're aiming for? What does it look like?

Andrea Markert 32:01

So, first of all, we have completely new facilities, which we have plenty of space. We don't have a lot of space in our building. There it was born uh born, it was built in 1964. Um, and we just don't have a lot of space.

Ben Webb 32:14

You're talking like floor plan of the actual building, or like we need more classrooms, like you you just want more land.

Andrea Markert 32:20

Yeah, I want more land.

Ben Webb 32:21

Outdoor space.

Andrea Markert 32:22

More yeah, our own facilities, our own athletic facilities and everything. But I feel like too, with more space, we could grow a little bit. Take a fake, yeah, kind of landing. Yes, and we can have more educators here and we can have more um research done and more just more meaningful things because we are all learners. We are all lifelong learners. I know that's like a catchphrase type thing, you know, but we are truly lifelong learners and we all want to grow here as well. So I think um just being able to, you know, like I don't know, like if we had more teachers here and we could kind of be in teams more and we could go out and provide PD and go get PD and and we could have, you know, maybe people have a semester off to do research, you know, they have to take a sabbatical because we have enough teachers to cover all the classes. I mean, like it's it's I mean it's unlimited.

Steve Evans 33:20

Like it's it's it's it's yeah, it's unlimited. It's endless. Your hypothetical would be awesome if it came true.

Andrea Markert 33:26

I mean, I see us sending teachers to lab schools in other countries for a semester and hosting other teachers, you know, from other lab schools for a semester. Like if we have the room and money and everything to do all that, we could be unstoppable.

Steve Evans 33:41

We can have a lunch program. We can have so many things. I mean, just so simple things that could even make a difference in a kid's life. Yes. Um, I would hope that comes true one day, Ben. I really do.

Ben Webb 33:51

I got his checkbook.

Andrea Markert 33:52

Well, well, that cover it is the Christmas season, Ben.

Andy Goveia 33:56

I am I am a joyful giver, but not that joyful. Yes. My my bank account isn't that deep.

Brian Rohman 34:03

And and just to add on to the like the the endless possibilities, we're really limited in in what we can actually host here. And we talk all the time. A lot happens at UHI. I mean, we're talking about in February already, there's going to be an IHSA speech sectional tournament, which will have about 300 to 350 people in the building. And while that's wrapping up, there's a boys' basketball game happening now in our facility. We could have, you know, if we had more facility space, then you're talking about being able to just host more things, not just host basketball games, host basketball tournaments, hosting, you know, that just and then that just shows our space off too. I know we get excited when we go see other schools with their new flashy bells, and that would just, you know, really truly make the lab schools a beacon in the curricular and extracurricular space.

Ben Webb 34:51

So let me put words in your mouth and you tell me if this is accurate or and I hope you extend the definition. So what I'm hearing is we want to be able to do more because what we have is enough to get by, but with more we could do so much more. Is that accurate, or would you say that's like simplifying the problem too much?

Andrea Markert 35:15

I well, I think we do better than get by. I truly do. Um, just because our programs are really good, our teachers are doing so much. Um, but I think we're doing better than getting by, but yes, we could be like so much more.

Brian Rohman 35:32

But we're doing better than getting by because of the dedication of the people here that make that happen. That are willing to have conversations of okay, I here's the problem. How do we solve the problem? We have a facility problem. What can we do? How can we get around that? What's the you know, and and without that, then we would probably be more at that getting by so the people help that.

Steve Evans 35:53

Oh yeah, I mean, I would agree. I I think obviously if you had endless funds, Ben, we could do everything we wanted. But yeah, if there was more that was provided, then we would be able to do, we would continue to do as much as we possibly could to maximize that. But it just goes back goes back to the challenge of a balance. It truly is. It's we just gotta balance what we can, do what we can, but at the same time, you can't just do everything because it's gonna come at the expense of other people. And so I hope, Andy. I hope you just get your check out and go ahead and read it. I'll work on I'll work on finding a bunch of money around and see what I can do. Uh that must pay well.

Andy Goveia 36:34

About as good as you hire. Okay. And I guess that makes me a little happy that we're gonna debate around the same. Um, this isn't in the question list, but I think you all have touched on. I I want to ask this really quick. What's something you're excited about right now? Like the three of you, this conversation, as as your jobs are really unique, and you said the challenges, and but you've also there's been a joy in this conversation. Oh, yeah. That the three of you love what you do. So before we get to our closing, what is something, a person, something you want to shout out, something you're excited about? Like, what is something bringing you joy right now in your job that you want you want people to know?

Dreaming Bigger: Space, Staff, And Programs

Andrea Markert 37:12

Um, in all honesty, and I'm being completely honest, I'm not saying this because Ben is sitting right next to me. I'm gonna move over a little bit. No, I'm gonna I feel so lucky to be able to come to work and work with the people that I work with. And that brings me great joy to see teachers trying new things and you know, doing their best and worrying about, you know, is what I'm doing effective? And, you know, always trying to grow and be better. That makes it really easy to come to work each day. We have great kids, we have great colleagues. And when you all are together and you're working towards a common goal, that makes it really easy to come to work each day. So that's my joy, and that's why I've been doing this for so long.

Brian Rohman 37:57

I I would say for me, it's some of the student projects that have kind of happened, and there's kind of a I have a bigger scale and a smaller scale one to shout out. So um, we had a an Eagle Scout actually do their Eagle project here this fall, and he started that his freshman year, started trying to inquire about his freshman year uh when Mike Shanley was still the assistant principal, and it they had some hard time getting traction. Sophomore year, you know, he had to reopen communication lines with me. That was last year, and we kind of hit some walls, and then this year it kind of got turbocharged and was able to happen. So you're ever coming in our south entrance, you see our sign on the one side, uh, on the other side, under uh by a bench and under a tree, there's a nice flower bed that's been redone, and there's some rock laid down around there in our sign. So that was an Eagle Scout project done by Jack Legner, and watching that finally get across the finish line and his determination, I think, and tenacity of not giving up really was a highlight for me and really highlighted what happens around it, Uh. When when there's when there's a vision and someone really wants to do something, they're gonna go after it. Students, faculty, administrators alike. And so I really commend him. And then kind of on the smaller scale, I had a freshman walk into my office this year uh around Dwali asking if they could if she and some other freshman students uh that celebrate Dwali could put up a display to educate other students about Dwali. And that was great. It looked amazing. Um, and so just you know, those are those kind of things when students are coming up with ideas and and we get some of those ideas across the finish line, that's what really just adds some fuel to to keep me going in this job.

Steve Evans 39:36

Yeah, I completely agree. I mean, that that is the joy. The joy is the success of the teachers when the classroom goes great, right? You know, everyone knows when there's a good lesson. You can hear them talking about it in the copy room. The success is when the students do well, whether it's uh at a show, and at a concert, in a game, or it's a project that Brian was just alluding to. Like, so the joy is just literally the people.

unknown 39:59

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Steve Evans 40:00

Love my job. Like I have more, I have fun every every day. Not every day is great. There is some bad moments in the day, but when you step back and kind of look at UhI and you look at the lab schools, and I look at the people that we've worked with for the 20 years, at least I've been here. Um, and I've literally enjoyed it. And that's just it's easy for me to say that. I like getting up every day, I like coming to work to Uh, I like the people I work with. Um, and I just think what gets me through every day, and I'm not just saying this because I'm on the podcast for the first time in my life, is that like uh I don't take this place for granted. Like I do not. Like I know we did a lot of comparisons in other schools. The reason we have left here is because the people, it is a pain in the butt to work here sometimes.

Ben Webb 40:42

Hey, yeah, I got a sensor button now. So I don't know. Oh, good.

Steve Evans 40:46

You didn't need it. That's good. I didn't I pause myself. Um, but I it's it truly is it's a it's a joy. Like the people we work with is great, and I think there's some individuals who have bad days here, and I think my advice to them on this podcast, if they ever listen to it, is you know, remember the good days because you're gonna have bad days no matter what. But I'm telling you, grass is not always greener, brother. Like this is this is a great place. I'm loving it, and so I think that is the joy, and being able to be surrounded by people who all have the same mission, which is teach kids, become better learners, lifelong learners, or better citizens, and that is the common goal here. So I don't know, I don't know why you you wouldn't be joyful if you worked here.

Andy Goveia 41:25

Yeah. All right, Brian and Steve, every podcast, your first time on. We got the our fast five for you. Five questions. Do I just answer them as fast as I can? No, get ready. Who is the person that most led you into education?

Steve Evans 41:40

Led me into education.

Andy Goveia 41:41

Yeah, who inspired you to become a teacher or an athletic director?

Ben Webb 41:47

See, now you do you you went from this is the fast five to now he gets time to think. It's a thoughtful five.

Steve Evans 41:52

That's what yeah, that's what I was.

Ben Webb 41:53

Well, hey, I got a cricket button too, so wow.

Steve Evans 41:56

You I'll let you go first, Brian.

Brian Rohman 41:58

Um, it was probably my high school speech coach, uh, uh Mrs. Christine Mangold. She uh she believed in me as a high school student, a speech competitor. And when I was trying to figure out what I wanted to do, uh and I I decided I want to go in education, she gave me the opportunity to go back to my alma mater of Metamora Township High School to do some coaching those first couple of years I was in college, and that led me a path eventually to UhI because she knew the coaches here and and got me in the door here, and I haven't looked back.

Steve Evans 42:27

This is terrible because there's not like an individual who just said, Hey, this is why I want to be a teacher, because I actually wanted to be a physical therapist. Okay, but I just loved coaching so much, so I wanted to be a coach. However, the individual I most of you guys know is Mike Troll. He was my biology teacher, and he was also an individual who kind of coached me at the high school level football. Um, he's the reason I actually took the job at UI, though. So he was he was a he's always been a role model for me, but he literally is the individual, and which why I even accepted the job back in 2006, because he called, he was working with Andrew and told me there was a biology opening, and I said, I there's no way in hell I want to work for UI. I literally said that. Remember, I was young and stupid. Oh, yeah. I missed that.

Joy At Work: Students, Projects, People

Andy Goveia 43:07

For context determinants, you went to Olympia? I went to Olympia High School, Olympia Spartans, okay. So rival, division rival, conference rival. There's some there's historical tension back back in the day.

Steve Evans 43:16

But yeah, that's all done now. That's watering the bridge. And he said, Hey, don't be stupid, don't you know, don't be, don't be young. Come take the job or take the interview. And I did, and I have no regrets. So he he is a major person that you know opened the doors for me, and I will always be grateful for him.

Andy Goveia 43:37

What's your go-to caffeine to get you through the day?

Brian Rohman 43:40

Uh, coffee now. Pre-pandemic, didn't drink a drop of it, post-pandemic. It's like I'm, you know, at least one in the morning, sometimes, you know, a little extra in the afternoon.

Steve Evans 43:49

Yeah, I have two black coffees and a diet cook before 8:30.

Andy Goveia 43:52

Favorite subject when you were a student.

Ben Webb 43:58

Former English teacher, what's your answer?

Brian Rohman 44:00

Uh, well, I probably was English. I did enjoy writing papers. Uh, I think when I got into high school, I started having a more adversarial relationship with some of my teachers. I actually really enjoyed physics in high school. I had a great physics teacher. He was someone who really still enjoys writing papers. I'm so bored. I guess gasp. But uh, I had a I had a great physics teacher who was an engineer who, for life circumstances, had to go into education as a psychological. I took two years of physics, didn't need to. I thought I was gonna be a music teacher at one point, so wow.

Steve Evans 44:33

Yeah, good for you. Uh science, obviously. That's why I did the continentary biology. But it's the best. Yeah.

Andy Goveia 44:40

What are you? You can choose one here. What are you reading, watching, or listening to right now?

Steve Evans 44:48

Reading, nothing. Watching Sports Center usually when I get home. And what was the other one?

Andy Goveia 44:54

Listening to any music you're vibing with right now. Listening. Um you didn't have to answer all of them. You're choosing to answer. I'm choosing.

Steve Evans 45:07

What is my son got me involved in to listen to Treaty Oak Revival? So Okay. Yeah. Love that. And I love movies, by the way.

Brian Rohman 45:18

Uh I haven't read last thing I read was um uh something called My Dear Hamilton, which is like a retelling of a Hamilton from Eliza's standpoint, which is really interesting. It's like historical and kind of some fictional elaboration. Um, just finished watching Stranger Things. Uh, I'm excited to see that finally end. That's feels like it's been going on forever. And uh Love early 2000s, punk rock. Blink 182, oh yeah, Fallout Boy. That yeah, that's all great time.

Steve Evans 45:45

I thought it was something newer listening to.

Andy Goveia 45:48

I took it my way. I love it. And then finally, for you two, favorite thing about the lab schools.

Steve Evans 45:57

The people. It's the people, it's literally the people, all stakeholders, even our parents and guardians, everybody. Top down, love it all.

Brian Rohman 46:05

The opportunities that the people get coming here changes your life, and just the opportunities that get created for our kids by everyone, I think is top-notch.

Andy Goveia 46:19

Andrea Markert, Steve Evans, Brian Roman, the UHI admin team. Thank you all for today's conversation. This has been awesome.

Andrea Markert 46:28

Thank you. Thank you. It was a pleasure.

Andy Goveia 46:31

To learn more about University High School, you can visit us online at uh dot illinoistate.edu. Thanks for listening.