Ep #12: Traditions! How School Traditions Shape and Stick in the Lab Schools

No Bells And A Bagpiper Walk Into School... start of a funny joke or something else?

On this Episode, we dig into the traditions and everyday quirks that define our Lab Schools culture, from no bells and open campus to the big community events that create core memories. We also wrestle with what should evolve, what we miss, and how to honor tradition without blocking innovation or equity.

• why daily systems like no bells shape student independence 
• how lunch schedules and building constraints change adult and student life 
• open campus as a privilege tied to safety, behavior, and academics 
• Metcalf signature experiences like Move In, outdoor ed, the musical, and the circus 
• U-High traditions like the Greek Olympics, Mr U High, and Class Night 
• traditions we miss, including more cross-building community time 
• reclaiming leadership in education technology, one-to-one devices, and AI readiness 
• alignment and equity questions in the Metcalf to U-High transition 
• healthy friction when traditions turn into rigid scripts 

If you think there’s something we need to feature next season, when we hit the ground running in August, tell us. We want to know.

Transcript

Why Traditions Matter Here

Ben Webb 0:18

Welcome to the pod. This week we are talking about, like Fiddler on the Roof, the traditions. So we're going to talk a little bit about what runs our buildings, what are some of those things that we hold really close and near and dear to our heart, but also what are some of the things we want to see change? Stick around. My name is Ben Webb. This is Andy Gove. Welcome to Live in the Lab Schools. Mr. Webb. Hello, sir. How are you? I'm well. How are you doing? I'm hanging in there. We're back. We are back. I feel like it's been a little while, but again, record, record, record, have a few things in the bank.

Andy Goveia 0:55

Yes. We sprinted and then we took a break. Spring break was it was a really logical break for us.

Ben Webb 1:03

Well, I don't know about you. I'm really bad about taking breaks. Schools which took ISU out, or if you work in different places.

Andy Goveia 1:08

So that'd be you and your wife had the that situation occur. Yep. My wife works for State Farm, so she she can take spring break whenever. Nice. She had a really dead week last week with no one around because everybody else was on spring break. And she was gone when everybody else was still actively working. For those of you that don't work in education, you listen to us, it sounds like that's a foreign concept to us that you just take a break whenever you want. Let us know what that's like. Shoot us an email.

Ben Webb 1:33

It's kind of like when you say you're done working at 4 p.m. Yes.

Andy Goveia 1:37

Or I'm gonna leave, I'm gonna leave my laptop at school and not do anything.

Ben Webb 1:41

Never no unheard of. So I have been looking forward to this episode for a little while. We talked about this around Thanksgiving at first, I think. Well, so one of the reasons why we started this podcast was because there are misconceptions. There are some misunderstandings of what we are as a system, uh, as as schools. Um, but I think a lot of people know us for certain things that just happen in our building. Yep. And some of those events, yeah. Like those core memory things that happen throughout the school year. And I think it's different in each building. But I think we are known for those things. Yes. It is like it is that holiday, it is that major capstone event. And for some, it's at the end of their high school career. Yeah. For some, it's in the middle, and for some, it's it happens every year. And eventually we're giving them the reins to then be the ones in charge of it.

SPEAKER_02 2:41

Yeah.

Ben Webb 2:42

So we are talking today about the traditions that run our school. Uh, but also too, we are a building that has been around for quite some time. And so we've developed some idiosyncrasies and some components of our day-to-day life that I would say distinguish us nicely from other area schools, from any

Daily Culture Without Bells

Ben Webb 3:08

any high school that you might have. And a couple of those, like, you know, things that you think always happen in buildings. So, like, one of the first things that my TCHs realize when they get in the door is we don't have bells. Yeah. And that's like, there's a reason for that. It's not necessarily to the level of a tradition, yeah. But there are those things that when you walk into the building, you're just like, this is different. Yeah. This is different from what I experienced when I was in high school.

Andy Goveia 3:32

Well, and like I think to speak to the whole no Bell thing, way, pre-K building, are not clean cut a four-year-old's day to a 14-year-old's day. And so that's a complaint our students have too, actually, is like, why don't we just have a bell system? And I'm like, well, you can't target a bell only hit, or at least I don't think you can, target a bell to hit certain rooms certain days of the week. And what happens if we're on a block schedule versus not a block schedule? And we hear a bell in the middle of our block. You all go, it's time to go. No, we're on a block. There's that whole psychology of a bell that comes. So, like we just neither of us have bells. Yep.

Ben Webb 4:08

So I think one way I would kind of pitch this to you is first let's kind of go back and forth some things that are unique or different about our buildings compared to maybe another area school. And then after that, I want to talk through like what are some of the major events. Yeah. Those things that kind of cultiv we cultivate towards, we work towards, or even maybe it is the culminating event for certain classes. Yeah. Okay. So I I started with the no bells. So that's one thing that I just it was very odd to me. I mean, when I was in middle school, I remember it being kind of like the airport ding that would go off before you get on the plane. Um, that's one thing I would mention. Yeah. Yours.

Andy Goveia 4:47

No bells is a really good one. I wanted to take it first. Oh, it's so good. Um Metcalf, I think, to editorialize slightly. We don't have traditions, maybe in the sense that you high does. I would argue our traditions are the events and things you alluded to. That I think to speak to your point at the beginning, many define us by those different things that we do. So traditions, yes and no. Um, but to maybe speak on the cultural piece, the no bells, because that's kind of what that's more of like the daily culture, right? Um we all have wildly, as teachers, wildly different lunch schedules. And I don't mean that to say that like I only get well, this this is actually true how it sometimes works. There are some teachers that have their prep time, and you guys, I think you high, for those that don't know, UHI runs on a 55-ish minute class system, five minutes in between. Classes start on the hour. Yep. Um, and so when you have an off period, you're getting a 55 UHI is getting a 55 minute lunch prep, whatever you want to call it. In the middle of the day, it's your lunch slash prep.

Ben Webb 6:03

Something that gets filled by a meeting or a committee or work with our 216 or methods kids, it gets filled with something real fast, but it is technically like a period where I don't have students in my classroom.

Andy Goveia 6:16

Right. And so for us, that prep time is is again throughout the day. But for some, they teach 30-minute lunch teach. And so if you were to go to, I would argue, almost any other institution, an elementary school, those kids are going to have lunch recess. So for my K4 colleagues, they usually have a lunch recess period that sits at about 50-ish, 55 minutes pretty consistently. Now, some teachers, I know that's not true, and I don't want anybody coming for me, like after the Hillia episode. Um, you had that? Oh, oh, Steph and Plumber. Yeah. Got me in the hallway and said, We heard that shout out. Good. We know that's right. You corrected yourself. So yeah. Um, so again, not to minimize what anybody does because some people's schedules aren't that uh generous. Um, but some people teach, teach, lunch, teach. And some like me have kind of like you guys, lunch and some prep together. And so in an elementary school setting, it's gonna be pretty much a consistent lunch recess period for almost everyone in the building. A middle school, it's gonna be great or team based, but you'll have a large number of people that maybe have the same lunch. Doesn't happen for us in our context. It's I'm the last lunch, and so I'm a pocket of about six or seven of us that have the same lunch, but then there's five or six people in the 20 minutes before us. And so because of scheduling, it's kind of seats sits with that. Um, it's a weird thing for us that not there isn't just a lunch recess block in the middle of the day because of our lunchroom constraints and our physical constraints, it's staggered for students, which then translates into staggered teacher schedules.

Ben Webb 7:54

Well, and on that lunch thing too, like we have we have a little school store on the first floor in our lounge with with some seating, but there's no way we can fit an entire class. Yeah. Yeah. So like you well, a second student body, let alone like one entire class. So like, so yes, it's that 55-minute block, but even within the freshman program classes, it's a 45-minute because we build in that lunch for them. And we can only send three classes down there at a time because three classes plus who's ever on a free period, they might not have any seating and might not be maxed out. So yeah, I would agree with that.

Andy Goveia 8:29

Yeah. So lunch is one of those interesting things for us.

Ben Webb 8:32

Um I've got another one if you go.

Andy Goveia 8:36

Go, please. Yeah. My brain, I'm mine are short and sweet. I think yours have more of that kind of like cultural in it. You know what I mean? There's culture and context to a lot of what I have to say.

Open Campus As A Privilege

Ben Webb 8:45

Open campus.

Lunch Schedules And Space Limits

Ben Webb 8:46

Oh, see. Our UHI students have open campus. So if they have a free, they are free to go about and go get food. They can go across the street to the gas station, get whatever they need, okay. Yep. And for that lunch, do the math of like, okay, all the way down the road to an actual restaurant. Yeah. Or do I have to kind of put it calling in Tony's tacos, right?

Andy Goveia 9:08

Shout out to Tony's. We apologize for the number of students. Apologize. As long as they're well behaved. If they're not, we're not, then we need to know deeply apologize. Uh yeah, open campus is such a fascinating thing being an elementary middle school building that that we don't have that. Um, a 13-year-old, even a 12-year-old going to Starbucks and back if they do and and our students don't have, to be fair, there's no free period in our student schedule. Um, that whole concept in Locoprentis and having to supervise kids, uh a 13-year-old in my seventh or eighth grade, maybe they have a study hall. Um, but that study hall is offset with a music class or something else where it's a normal class. It's not just do whatever you want. There's it, they're assigned to a teacher. They go to a space open campus. Correct me if this has changed since my trip around here decade ish ago. There's no assignment. Your free period is a truly a free period, unless there's some restrictions you and I think so, yes.

Ben Webb 10:10

And that is something that I think the kids and the faculty and the administration like they hold very precious. It's always that thing of like, we we res we understand the difficulties of having an open campus. And I think we've seen examples of where, okay, these kids are able to drive. And so what does that look like once you have your driver's license and you can go further off campus and be back on time? Or what happens if, you know, there's, you know, God forbid, an accident or something like that happens, or a train. So like we understand those kind of difficulties, but we also see it as such an important component of being a student here. Yeah. I think the other challenge with it is so that is it's a privilege, not a right. And so there are some examples of kids who lose that privilege because of behaviors of what they do during that time period. There's also examples of where we say to the student, okay, you have a free period, but you really need to work on your assignments. Yeah. We need to assign you to a space so that you can get your work done so that you can remain academically eligible, so that we can keep you from making a mistake on that time. And because I think for some kids, I don't blame them. They might want to spend time in the gym, just shoot some hoops or, you know, spend time with their friends, but the priority here is still school. Yeah. And so there are examples where there's those exceptions to, hey, you've got a free period. There's also a number of kids who load their schedule and don't have that free period. So I think that's one I think is just it's a cultural thing to understand. Yeah. But again, yeah, it's that privilege, not a right.

Andy Goveia 11:49

Yeah. I think one of the the pieces maybe that's shared between the two buildings in terms of that cultural sense of tradition, maybe, is just the empowerment of students to kind of own their learning and own what that looks like. So, like for you guys, yeah, open campus, setting student schedules, right? All of those pieces. For us, we in

Student Agency And Choice

Andy Goveia 12:09

their studio electives in seventh and eighth grade implemented, I think starting last year we did this. Um, instead of like a quarterly rotation where you go class to class to class to class, opted for studio electives. So students get the menu and say, here's what I want to do. And so they could load up on two to three art classes or two to three theater classes across their two years in seventh and eighth grade. Um, because if that is their passion, their thing, they've got that choice and that agency to help build that. And for students who don't take a music, there is a second, um this year, there's a second elective studio block where, hey, there's a couple different ones offered at this time, only going to be offered at this time because you're not in music, you have this opportunity to further your learning in that way. And so um, giving voice and agency in some of those choices, I think, is a way we start to build that freedom. Um I have another thought for later on when we talk about the traditions and things we've maybe butted up against. We're gonna get to that a little bit later. Um, that's open, just remind

Signature Events Across The Year

Andy Goveia 13:16

me open key.

Ben Webb 13:16

Define your schools or define our schools. Right. So, like I'm thinking like those cap two one's at the end of a student's high school time and one is at the beginning. But I kind of want to see like what are some of the major things that happen. Do you want to start like Do we just want to go through the school year?

Andy Goveia 13:35

Sure. Let's do that. So beginning of the year. Um, I mean, the big one for us that's kind of developed over the past 10 or so years is we call it Metcalf Move In. Think of it not like an open house, it's your supply drop-off. The whole school gets invited in basically during institute days before school starts to come get their locker if they have a locker, meet the teacher really quickly, drop stuff off. Um, and it that become kind of the all right, well, it's giving parents parent has gone and sitting in the gym. They're the parents, there's this natural growth of like the kid's gonna do it. And so, like, I do see it. I love seeing our seventh, eighth grade parents come through. Um, but I mean the percentage of parents that are right there drops. And I think that's a really cool to speak to the the trust and autonomy try to give our students that voice. That event itself goes from really heavily structured for little people to like when they get to us, we go grab your locker, set your stuff up, we'll see you Monday. Make sure you feel good about what you're doing. Like it's just that we've the gradual release. And so that event, even in and of itself, is just that moment of here we are, we've started the year.

Ben Webb 14:47

And I think the transition is not just for the kids. No. Uh, having having put my daughter into like the open house when we went to meet her teachers and then spend some time like, okay, this this was it was that whole event was to basically tell me that everything's gonna be okay.

Andy Goveia 15:08

Right. And that's and I give a shot, I just want to give a shout out to all our early-ish elementary pre-K teachers that like they have a mountain of a task when a parent shows up at the beginning of the year to go, I promise you don't know me, but I know what I'm doing. Yep. And trust, trust that your kid is gonna be safe, they're gonna be loved, they're gonna be cared for, and they're gonna learn here. And that is a lot to communicate in a 20 to 25 minute window. Yep. So, yeah. So, what is there anything of your traditions you thought about? Beginning of the year?

Ben Webb 15:37

Beginning of the year. The thing, the first thing, the first one I would mention is so the freshman program is English, world studies, and biology. And the team of six teachers are working throughout the year. We coordinate our schedules, we coordinate our assessments, our standards, we are team teaching. We're doing a lot together for that orientation and that transition. So we we do a freshman orientation for all of the students going through the freshman program, which kind of culminates in this event called the Greek Olympics. It is a field day. It is uh called the Greek Olympics because it's just at the end of our Greek history unit. We used to teach uh text that would go alongside that. So uh we were talking about a number of years ago, we were doing the Hunger Games. And really, it is a field day. It is kind of a culmination of okay, what have you learned about being a team? What have you learned about being with your peers and kind of working together towards a common goal? There are, you know, gold medals, silver, bronze. They are doing a bunch of different fun activities. It's the one day that even a junior or a senior tries to sneak into the gym and wants to be a freshman again. Yeah. It's just such a fun kind of end of the, I guess, first trimester we would say, because we do it right before Thanksgiving. But it's such a fun day where you really get to see, okay, it's not just about the test. I mean, there are there are curricular connections. We ask them to make connections in terms of when they build their armor and they model their armor. Like, we want to see not just a bunch of cardboard and in there what they made, but we want to see like why did they do it a certain way and how did they work together to build it and put it together and engineer it. And we we there's trivia. There is for there is for brains, there's for brawn. We're doing all of that in one morning, and it's just really cool to see them kind of do that and then celebrate the winners, congratulate all who participated in, and then have a nice meal together. So that's the that's the first one I would mention.

Andy Goveia 17:32

Love that. We started this year to speak to that, and so like the rest of these events don't necessarily follow the flow of the year for us, it's just kind of they happen. So, like all of our grades do different things that are like like I don't even know what the phrase to use, like signature experience. Like almost every grade's got a thing that they do. Um, and kindergarten this year, shout out to them, started a new one. They did an outdoor education day for their little kindergartners, worked on eight alongside eighth graders to plan just like an outdoor education day, which was really cool for them to get to pretend they were camping and get that experience. And I'll talk about after in a second for our building. Um, first grade for sure always goes to the zoo. They go to Miller Park Zoo every year as part of their study. Um, second grade does a lot of really cool uh nature explorations that they do um as well. Third grade goes to Shad Aquarium as part of their ocean study. Um, fourth grade every year goes to the starved Rock State Park to hike and explore there. And then you hit middle school and our after education program starts, and I'll circle back to that in just a second. Um but all of those things happen at different points in the year. Um, pre-K, for example, does um in the winter, does a coat drive and hat drive for the giving fence in down in downtown Bloomington. They have these little people walk around the school and collect these big coats and mittens, and they take them on an ISU minibus and they have the kids go stock that fence on, I think it's on Washington Street. Um four-year-olds do that. Um, and then you have traditions like our student council does a food two to three food drives every year to stock different food pantries. Um, things like that were just the cool things happen. Um, our building is also defined by I would say three other big things outdoor ed, our musical, and our circus. Um, when you think about Metcalf and the things that people know about us. Um outdoor ed formally starts in fifth grade. Kids go to and stay in cabins. Uh three

Mr U High And Class Night

Andy Goveia 19:38

days, two nights, do that experience, look at doors to be away from horror but thrive.

Ben Webb 19:44

And I've heard some wonderful stories about like that kind of transformative experience of being on their own.

Andy Goveia 19:50

Yes, also um that and that program just I mean it's a 50-year program. It's been going on for 50 years. You talk tradition, that is a Metcalf tradition, outdoor ed. We're the last people in town still doing it. 87 cut it a couple years ago. Um and so But the yeah, the transformative effect of that is just I mean, people come back 10, 15 years later and go, oh my gosh, remember it outdoor ed when you did this. And one of the one of my former students who's at UhI now, I broke a chair accidentally. She has that piece of that chair, and she doesn't let me forget that she has a piece of that chair. Um core memory. Core memory. But that's the thing about some of our stuff that though the the traditions are the core memories that get created along the way. So, like you get to uh our Allied Arts musical production every year. The musical is one of the big school events everybody goes to usually and sits in on and watches. And musical season is a season for us. I know it's kind of the same for you guys with your plays and productions, but like for us, that's that's our big show every year. And everything kind of blows up for a week while the show is happening, but we all go watch the show, we celebrate those kids. And this year they added in like a character meet and greet. So we did Frozen Junior, and so the Friday we did the show on Thursday for the school and on Friday for our youngest kids, pre-K and K got to go meet Olaf and Sven and Anna and Kristoff and Elsa. And they got to just like Disney World. My like my kindergarten daughter was like, I got to meet Olaf today, and it was the coolest thing for her. And so, like that production is a tradition. Our circus show, we have the junior gammafy circus since 1986. Saw that on the poster this weekend. That experience is a tradition we have. The whole school comes to watch that show on Thursday. We celebrate this the half the school gets decorated, themed for the show, and we all dive into that shared experience together. Um, and so in addition to all those class based experiences that are the traditions that are happen in classes, we also have those three big programs defined. For I think for a lot of people, you ask about Metcalf, they're gonna go, oh gosh, you have that circus. Oh, you have that mequel. Oh, you do have to ed.

Ben Webb 22:01

I mean those things that people kind of speaking to like some of the there's some major m milestones that happen along the way. Yeah. You were talking about service, and so that kind of made me think about one of the events that's a tradition that we have is Mr. Uhai. Mr. Uhai. And I think one of the things I would mention about this, it's it's a it's in memory of a student uh in October of 2002, Troy Harry was a student. He was a good student, but kind of a class clown uh individual, very funny, very loved. And he uh died in a car accident. And so after after that, Mr. Yu High was developed to kind of not recognize the most academic of our students, but who is the person who really brings joy to the classroom, to the environment, can lead through example. And that's one of those where it's you know, it's it it's a it's a male beauty pageant. You said it, not me. Um it's more than that, but it's one of those traditions where it's like, okay, I'm you sometimes you're surprised that that still is in existence. Yeah. But Troy would be that kind of person where it's kind of like would push the envelope a little bit and also would kind of, you know, want to, you know, stretch that boundary, but also make you smile, make you laugh. And so it's done as a kind of a memorial to him, um, but as that kind of like living memorial, it is also like for service. And so there's a couple of different organizations besides Senate and U Build who then are doing service in other areas uh from them. And then the other big one, class night. Class night. It is right up class night, and it's as old as the schools, as old as um we've been around. It is the end-of-year concert. It involves videos made by the students. I would I would argue it's kind of like SNL, where it's a bunch of sketch comedies. Yeah, you've got videos in there uh similar to the Between Two Ferns with Zach Galaf and Hackett. Between two halfies, between two halfies, which explains and leaves so many questions. Um, and you've got like you've got your car carpal karaoke, you've got your Hot Ones Buffalo Wig Challenge, you've got the videos that are written and filmed and edited by the students, and then also they they poke fun, they bring in the teachers.

Andy Goveia 24:22

We kind of almost like a year in review, like just for the for the uninitiated or someone listening to this going, what is this? The senior class basically just does this year in review, taking the major beats of the year and turning it into this celebration of what the school year was.

Ben Webb 24:39

Yeah. And I think what's really cool about it is I, as one of the sponsors for the event, I get to see seniors come in at the beginning of the school year, see them really start to say, okay, this is what we're gonna do, this is what we're gonna, how we're gonna repeat what we did last year. But then I also get to see that transformation from I don't have to just repeat what I saw last year. I don't have to just do what's already been done. I can come up with something new or I can make it my own. And so you really start to see like the personality of the class, and you also start to see how it's celebrating all of the seniors, but also all of the community. So I always pitch to them like they're um they're them. The awards assembly, we're gonna celebrate them, their achievements, and where they're going on after high school. Class night, whether it's you are in a video or you are behind the scenes editing that video, or if you are in the live band who is doing eight different songs of music that you think is gonna rock out and think and get the audience involved, like it is a major event that gets to celebrate your year and your four years in the school, while also, and I think the most important thing is I will always harp on them. Your audience is not just your senior class peers. It's every class in this building, and we invite the incoming eighth grade class. You are welcoming in a group of students who applied to go to the school, received an acceptance letter, and is now coming into this room saying, I want to be a U-High pioneer. And in some cases, the inside jokes never land with them. They're confused as to what things mean. Those eighth graders are deeply confused. But we we bring them in early before class night. We kind of give them a tour of the building, we have a fun night where it's kind of like we literally introduce them to the senators and the other individuals who are leaders of different uh groups, and then they go to class night and they get to feel like they're a part of that piece. And also there's usually a faculty video, there's a faculty band. There is. I believe somebody in this room has been on the faculty band for a number of years.

Andy Goveia 26:47

Listen, this is gonna be allegedly year 14. Oh man. Playing with the faculty band this year. I I lucked out, guys. Listen, anybody listening, student taught here, and I because I was in the office, I was in the office where the the band coordinator was, I got looped in on all the communication, and they've not taken me off yet.

Ben Webb 27:11

No. We why would we?

Andy Goveia 27:13

Well, I you play. I'm honored. I get to pretend to work here for one day a year.

Ben Webb 27:19

And yet my one o'clock class sees you sneak in every so often for recording.

Andy Goveia 27:24

They're like, what's he doing here? Just the same thing we've done all year, guys. Um yeah, class night's awesome. One that's a capital T tradition. Yes, I think for this building. Yep. By far.

Ben Webb 27:37

Without class night, it's very hard to think of anything else that is purely us, yeah, other than like bringing out a lamp of knowledge, which is horribly flammable and dangerous, and then and then doing that process of moving up of the classes, quite literally bringing the senior class out of the seats in the auditorium where they go, putting them up on stage, and and having them do this ceremony where it's like, hey, we've left space for you. Juniors, you may take ours place as seniors. Sophomores, move to the junior section. Freshmen, move to this, and then being able to say to those eighth graders, come down to the freshman section. All right, classes, go enjoy yourself in the lounge, have a nice party, go do a little bit of dance. They don't dance, they just cry and hug each other because they're gonna miss each other. Yeah. But then being able to talk and we that is quintessentially, like with the years missing so much.

Andy Goveia 28:32

Some other questions besides think these are gonna be either the career and other experiences are clubs and extra other extracurriculars do amazing things. And if you believe, this is where I'll put out a plug to our listening community. If you think there's something we need to feature next season, when we hit the ground running in August, we need content. We want, we've done a number of things we thought were good this year. Um and we appreciate you listening. But if you think there's something that deserves a 30 to 45 minute conversation about this place, tell us. We want to know. We don't want to just give a single narrative of this place because that happens too often. We want to make sure that we're including as much as we can to be thoughtful and inclusive of traditions and people and things. So there are great traditions that happen across both of our schools. I think it's important to note we are two people speaking, and we miss things sometimes.

Ben Webb 29:32

I miss a lot of things.

Andy Goveia 29:33

I do too, especially when it's 80 degrees outside.

Traditions We Miss And Why

Ben Webb 29:37

Um, you did you did do the segue though.

Andy Goveia 29:40

I did do the segue.

Ben Webb 29:41

So we miss things. We miss things. What is a tradition that we have lost, or something that we've lost that you want back? Not gonna say we used to do it better, not to say that it was better back in the day.

Andy Goveia 29:57

But I what is a traditional one tradition that I we did it my first couple years, maybe your first couple years. I'm already squirming, thinking back that far. And I I rather liked it. I know a lot of people did not. Um, we would get both our buildings together for three to four hours, and we did what you can only call as really socially awkward team building. I really enjoyed that for a number of reasons.

Ben Webb 30:33

If you need to do any fan mail, please know you can do that on our Buzz Sprout, or you can directly email us uh or send something on Instagram because this is one where I might stand in some fan mail.stu.edu.

Andy Goveia 30:45

Um no, I but here's why I liked not necessarily that. There was something to be said for we for lack of better language, we are a school system that is two buildings. It is nice to be reminded that we are not islands, but that our two buildings are a part of us the same system. So I'm not advocating to go back to socially awkward team building, but I would say I do miss not getting together just for meetings or P D, but having a legitimate moment of, hey, we are the people together that do this work across P12. Let's spend a just something together, not just sitting and getting or doing active work. I'm I miss we are the people that make this place work. Take 10 minutes to have a cup of coffee and chat with each other. I miss that component.

Ben Webb 31:39

I can agree with you on the component of let's take away those barriers, put down those walls, and let's both come together. All of us as faculty associates, as you know, as people who are employees of this university, let's come together and do that. It's the forced socialization piece. I'm an outrovert, so I'm like, uh, oh boy, I don't want, I don't want to do an awkward team building, but I agree with your premise wholeheartedly.

Andy Goveia 32:05

It's the premise, not the A to B. Shout out to Dr. Haney. She and I did one together, planned one. My second year, what a what an introduction. What about you? Is there something that we've let go

Technology Leadership And What’s Next

Andy Goveia 32:16

that you missed?

Ben Webb 32:17

This is gonna be a little bit of a hot take. So I feel like, and this is not a critique of the people who are in charge of these departments right now. It's just a the nature of how the world has changed. I miss how far we used to be ahead of the curve on technology. I feel like, and I know AI is the the I feel like back in the day, we were we were one of the first schools to really figure out one-to-one device initiatives. And we were the people who people were we were the ones who had visiting schools come in and say, How do you make this work? At both levels. At yeah. And I think part of what has kind of happened in the industry of technology, but also in schools, is now one-to-one is kind of the expectation. It's the norm. Devices either are getting more pricey or we're trying to re figure out how do we do this. And one of the things that I always used to love to do is say, okay, I don't want to know what the next big thing is going to be for next year. I need to know 10 years from now. And I I'm hoping that we can get back on that tradition of being ahead of the curve when it came to when it came to technology. Um, a number of things in COVID learning and a number of things that we kind of did differently and thought differently to plug the Apple um catchphrase. Yes, we will take iPad Pros. But we're starting ocean. But we're starting to see like the we're starting to see, and I think I think specifically at Uhigh, we're starting to see how that next iteration of technological advancement and classroom involvement with technology is gonna be so crucial, we have to be ahead of the curve. It's the same way that we talk about like AI before, about like, okay, well, AI is the buzzword or AI is the thing. But we need to be thinking about how we're preparing our kids and our students and our pre-service teachers for what it's gonna look like down their career or down the line.

SPEAKER_02 34:16

Yeah.

Ben Webb 34:16

And I'm starting to see that, especially with like one-to-one in terms of like when you mentioned iPads, like there's some amazing things you can do on device right now in a secure environment on that device. Also, who's to say that one size fits all? And we've been testing that. We've been coming up with some kits in our technology department and in our shared governance technology committee. We've been talking through, okay, what does it look like if not everyone has the same device? How do you still make it equitable? Uh, what best prepares them for post-high school? Um, and even kind of like looking to like, is there a way in which this device goes on with them? It's their device, their technology fees really paid for it. And and we've kind of talked through like, okay, what are those functional barriers? Um, what AI can we get them? What kind of technology tools can we get them so that they are then better prepared? And I think about in terms of like, I've got kids right now asking me, how do I use the Adobe Suite? How can I use the most powerful tool for this Photoshop or this video? Yeah. I've got kids asking me, how do I do this not on their school-issued device, but on their phones with Apple Intelligence. I've got some kids who are ready for, you know, switching out of Magic School AI, which I can curate for them, into more of the, all right, well, you've got Claude, you've got Gemini, you've got the official one that the university is gonna have us use, which is Copilot. So you're ready for it. I can now add we were talking about this beforehand, like yeah, I can do the teaching piece. I just need the tools that are then able to make me successful. Yeah. And I think one-to-one, and I think with those kind of technology, like we used to have X. I feel like we've lost a little bit of that now that it's kind of become mainstream, and it's kind of like, okay, how do we then return? Yeah, what's next?

Andy Goveia 36:03

What's next? Yeah.

Ben Webb 36:05

That's it. Yeah. But what else? What else is something that you either feel like we've we had a handle on, maybe we lost, maybe we went a different direction. Because I think one of the cool things about lab schools is we can experiment, and I I think part of that experimentation is sometimes you find things that don't work.

Andy Goveia 36:28

I think one thing that I think

Alignment And Equity Across P-12

Andy Goveia 36:33

has has changed through the years, and I don't know I don't know the right way to sit on this necessarily is simply what what does the continuum for us look like P12? Like there's been, and this is simply I think the nature of education today, there's a lot of turnover at a lot of positions in both of our buildings, leadership-wise, teaching-wise, support-wise. And so anytime there's a change, communication changes. And like to speak to like my relationship with freshman program, the social studies department, just generically speaking, when I started at Metcalf, the same people who were teaching freshmen were the same people I had been in an office with and had gotten to known. Well, they weren't in the same office, but I had gotten to know them, and they were still all kind of consistent for a couple of years. And then as people retire, you get new hires, the people in freshman program changed, and it's no one's fault. And I'm just using one little tiny example, but that you take just that one departmental example, multiply it across all of our system, different changes in leadership at the top of our system, at the university, provoke, right? All of those levels we've had, and what you just see is a little disjointedness, just in terms of alignment of what do you do you do alignment bottom up? What do we expect a kindergartner to be able to do? Okay, what does the first grader do? Do we take that then up to a high school graduate versus the other school of thought is here's the graduate. All right, let's backwards plan. What does a unified system approach look like post-COVID? Looking to the future, kind of like what you said, what's next? How can we not that we've lost it fully, and that's not what I'm saying either, but I think post-COVID it was really easy for Metcalf to be Metcalf, Uh to be UhI. And we're starting to kind of re-converse what that alignment could look like.

Ben Webb 38:33

I think I have a good, I think I have an example of this. So one of the things that I've noticed, and this is I've been in the freshman program since I was hired. Yeah. So I've I've gotten to You are the old man of the department. I've been the old man since my third year in the freshman program because of because of the gray and because of the you know, just the gruff attitude. Yeah. So the thing that I've noticed, and something that it just kind of an it's not a bad thing. It's just curriculum's gonna change, people are gonna change. Yes. We are a dynamic living system. We're a living laboratory. We're supposed to be.

SPEAKER_02 39:03

Yeah.

Ben Webb 39:03

And so as that change is happening, one of the things that I would but there is a trajectory that most Metcalf students are going to take.

Andy Goveia 39:10

99% of our kids go to freshman year here.

Ben Webb 39:13

Depending on the people who were involved, you identify and say, okay, we're gonna do what we can to help that, or we need to acknowledge that that is privilege that we need to then maybe not emphasize. Yeah. So if we've got a percentage of students coming from Metcalf into the ninth grade class, a third of your class. A third of my class. Are we going to make sure that that transition is seamless, that we're giving them at eighth grade the tools that are going to help them start the year successfully in ninth grade when that is only one-third of our student body? Who do you orient to? We have feedered districts, we have students coming from some districts almost an hour away, coming in. Is that an advantage to somebody who got into Metcalf and a disadvantage then to somebody who didn't go to Metcalf? And I think that's a those are two realities that we grapple with because do I want a student to have a successful transition from eighth grade into ninth grade? 100%. Absolutely. But I don't want it to be an advantage for one district or one school. Yeah. When if I don't have those developed relationships with their eighth grade teachers in the neighboring schools, and I believe there's I I want to say there's like at least 20.

Andy Goveia 40:35

I want to say different words, 27 potential, if you just go geographically, geographically 27 potential feeder middle schools. Us just being one of the 27.

Ben Webb 40:45

And I think that so I think that's part of the reality is we want to prepare students for that transition. But regardless if they are already within our system, like we can we can align standards, we can talk, we can work together within our two buildings, but in the end, that is one population of our student body. And we have to make sure that every single kid, when they start in that ninth grade class, it's not like some kids are starting ahead.

SPEAKER_02 41:14

Yeah.

Ben Webb 41:15

And they get a different starting line than everyone else. So that's something I know personally I've talked in meetings about and I've kind of grappled with how am I making sure that that isn't going to then be an equity issue?

Andy Goveia 41:30

And I think depending on how you look at that transition, and this is where I think we come into our schools come into a little bit of conflict, is we teach these kids for 10 years, potentially. They are in our there should be a hurdle to stay in the system. And I an entire episode on in our system, what should that speak to the theme of the episode? Clear tradition.

Ben Webb 41:49

Student, a peer, a colleague coming in, we don't want to impose on them this is the way the school must be. And so just like how every kid deserves a fresh start coming into ninth grade, I think we also have to recognize that for our new hires. Uh-huh. Several of our teachers have taught in buildings for a number of years, some of which, right out of the internship or student teaching, get to come back to the lab schools, and that might be their first or their second year teaching. And we can't treat them like the newbie. Right. We want them to be a part of this community, but that must then be reflective of who they are. Yeah.

Andy Goveia 42:33

So where we're starting to, I know we're just about out of time for this conversation. And I I'll start off answering my own

When Traditions Create Friction

Andy Goveia 42:41

question. Is there any kind of tradition where there's a little bit of friction in fighting for or against some piece of it? And for us, post-COVID, it's been our eighth-grade graduation presentation, whatever you want to call it. Um because parents, for us, I know like a UHI graduation and class night, all stool, all school done, all school driven. Our eighth grade presentation, there's a parent component we work with parents because they drive how large or how small the reception is afterwards. So we so for those that listen, presented forward, um, where they are recognized as concluding their time in our school. Some of them have been there for 10 years. Um, and we send them on their way and say, Great to go, we're gonna miss you. Good I that event for our kids, especially the ones that have been there for 10 years, even eight or nine years. It is really great to say, Hey, you've been here, you transition. We're gonna celebrate a new middle school. Um, the the fighting how traditional within the confines of there's a bagpipe, right? Which started 14, 15 years ago with a student who wanted to play bagpipes. And now we bring a bagpiper into because that created a tradition. Um, how rigid do you stay to that format of a ceremony? And then how big should the reception be? Um, and then there's some that are like, why do we even do it? There aren't eighth grade high school trades. Transitions that really happen in a lot of other places, especially in today's culture. Like this is kind of a byproduct of a different era. Um but I think when you're in a unique system like ours, where there is a potential for a kid to be with us from four until fourteen, and then from fourteen until they're 19, giving some sort of marked, we recognize your time. And that's what class night is for you guys. We recognize your time here, we celebrate you, go on to what's next. Um so again, it's not fighting necessarily. It's just there's some healthy friction sometimes over what that transition should or should not look like. Which actually feeds into the cultural conversation we just had about skills and readiness and what should that it all that transition. There's I think there's an episode to be done on the eighth to ninth transition, maybe in season two, after maybe so we can get some soul searching going on that conversation.

Ben Webb 44:53

Well, and it'd be good to bring in a couple of those different opinions. You kind of talked about how you you like it. It might be good to also hear like what are the struggles or the reasons for why maybe it needs to change. Yeah. Um I would I would say a similar similar to that. So like sometimes, and I think because we are a building that recognizes we have traditions, I think sometimes we either run into the risk of it happened once, therefore now it's a tradition because we're gonna try and do it a second time.

SPEAKER_02 45:24

Yeah.

Ben Webb 45:25

We sometimes we're not always the best when it comes to a pilot. Like we might pilot something, but because we did it and it wasn't a train wreck, yeah. Now it's a tradition and something we must redo.

SPEAKER_02 45:35

Yeah.

Ben Webb 45:36

And or, or even with that, like, okay, so I saw it last year. So now I'm gonna take on that tradition and do it this year. And I think our students are can be guilty of that. I think our teachers are also somewhat guilty of that. Um, so that's that's one I would kind of highlight. I think the other challenge is often with like what was your original question again?

Andy Goveia 46:00

Anything where there's been a tradition where there's some friction, whether you've either not fought necessarily but had to advocate for or maybe advocate a change or adjustment or against.

Ben Webb 46:12

So I think taking what I just said and then applying it more directly to the question, I think sometimes we um we maintain the tradition to the script and to the letter of the law as opposed to even asking why are we doing this? Um I think sometimes we might I see that with class night sometimes, where it's like it's a major event. We want it to be kind of ceremonial, we want it to have like a certain kind of like seriousness to it, but sometimes I think we don't always capture or even transmit why is it so solemn? Why are we trying to do this thing? We kind of almost leave it unspoken. And then I worry that sometimes not everybody might pick up on why that is. Um similarly, I think sometimes with that, if you do something within the tradition, then it kind of gets locked into, well, we can't change it.

Andy Goveia 47:08

Yeah.

Ben Webb 47:08

So, like a couple of years ago, there was a video that had to happen because oh, did it? I I remember when I saw it when I was a freshman or when I saw it when I was a sophomore. And it's like, but that's you know, your lifespan, yeah, you loved it, and your lifespan in this school has been a certain amount of time. Yeah. Some of us, we we remember this from way back when when we went to school here. I think a couple of our teachers who have some a lot, we have some alums. So like I think being able to recognize and then also share with that, like, okay, traditions can change. And I think it's hard for some students to recognize. I think it's like really hard for some of our teachers and some of our um, you know, community members to be like, oh, well that's not how I did it. Yeah.

Andy Goveia 47:49

It's like that doesn't make it less. Right. Nostalgia is real sometimes.

Ben Webb 47:55

Oh, it's so real. And it's in and I think the hard part is that it doesn't make it wrong. It just means maybe not this year. Yeah.

Your Ideas For Next Season

Andy Goveia 48:03

And I think that's a really great point, maybe to end off on is that all these traditions we've talked about, whether the cultural pieces, um, some of our wonders about changes and traditions, like we again, to speak to what I said earlier, we are just two people doing this podcast to start conversations, to get our story and our name out there. And maybe there's a good group of alumni that are like, hey, we'd love to talk about how we look back on this place, parents, and their perspective on how they view our places and what they would hope to see or expect, right? Or their take on traditions. Um I think it's good to maybe end on the plug again and go, hey, if you listen to this conversation and go, oh, there's so much more to talk about. We want to connect, reach out, and let's figure out how to get that conversation out there rather than it be whispers or rather than it just be a complaint or a suggestion box. Like let's dialogue and show the richness of diversity of thought that exists within not only our buildings, but it within our school communities and area.

Ben Webb 49:12

So there's a few more episodes between now and the end of the school year. Yeah. We've not explicitly said it yet, but we are gonna take the summer off. Yeah, hopefully. So I well, we'll probably be talking about stuff and we'll have PD and stuff like that. But just for listeners to know, we've got a few more episodes, but then Memorial Day, friends.

Andy Goveia 49:29

Once we hit Memorial Day, maybe you get one episode post-Memorial Day, and maybe there's a random summer drop. But we're coming up on the end. So again, for next year, if you've got stuff, we are pretty blank slate for next year. We have two or three things we know we want to do, but two or three episodes is not a 36-week school year. Yep.

Ben Webb 49:52

So give us some guidance, give us some help, and also know if you community and want to get on the pod. We are sending invites to people. We're trying to fill our calendar with more than just our voices.

Andy Goveia 50:06

I love hearing you talk. We we have a lovely time and we enjoy this. That's why we did it together. My favorite episodes have been the ones where we're talking to other people, and there's some revelation or thing to consider or a new way of considering something because it those are also our best episodes. We get listener feedback. I was told our admissions episode was deeply helpful and eye-opening for some people just to hear the conversation.

Ben Webb 50:29

So hopefully this episode is well timed, considering we're coming up on the end of the year. We've had a number of events. Admissions letters are coming out soon. Very true. And I think we're excited to have a new class of people involved and a part of our community. Hopefully, this conversation helps acclimate them and lets them know they get to be a part of contributing to what makes this school a special place.

Andy Goveia 50:51

So hopefully before the end of the year, here's what you're gonna hear from us. Hopefully, you're gonna get to hear an episode or two from some of our teachers talking about their year, what they've learned, what they've found. Hopefully, you're gonna get to hear from our new hires this year, a group of them getting together talking about what it was like to be new here. Hopefully, you'll hear a conversation from the dean again. Dr. Zagelder's gonna come back talking about next year for us and what leadership is gonna look like. And there's a lot of great conversations to come. We hope you stick around with us. Have a good week, everyone. Live in the lab schools is a production of the ISU Laboratory Schools recorded on the campus of Illinois State University. Connect with us on Facebook or Instagram at Live in the Lab Schools. We'll see you next time.