Self Led Sexuality 101 – with Patricia Rich

What if your sexual self is already whole and complete? IFS-informed sex therapist Patricia Rich joins host Bahia Miller to explore self-led sexuality, the Six S's framework, internal consent, and how couples — especially parents — can reconnect.

If sex feels complicated, confusing, or somewhere you've just stopped going — this episode is for you.

This week, Bahia welcomes Patricia Rich, LCSW, CST-S — certified Level 3 IFS therapist, approved consultant, and AACT certified sex therapist — for a deeply honest conversation about what it means to bring Internal Family Systems into our most intimate spaces.

Together they explore why talking about sex feels so vulnerable, how our parts shape (and sometimes block) our sexual experience, and how Patricia's original framework — the Six S's of Sexual Self-Energy — can serve as both a roadmap and a coming-home.

You'll Learn:
- Why sexuality is such a tender, complex trailhead in IFS work — and why that's completely normal
- The Six S's of Sexual Self-Energy — and how to use them as parts detectors and positive trailheads
- What internal consent is, why it matters, and how it's different from interpersonal consent
- How parts-led vs. self-led sexuality actually feels different in the body
- Why parents especially lose the thread of sexual connection — and simple, self-led ways to find it again

Connect with  Patricia:

www.patriciarich.com

Self-Led in Bed Podcast

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/patriciarichconsulting/

Join the Self-Led Sexuality Free Facebook Community: https://www.facebook.com/groups/selfleds3xualitywithpatriciarich

Sign up for Patricia’s email list and get the free The Six S's of Sexual Self-Energy Infographic.

✨ Follow on IG: @bahiamiller

🌈 Free resources + more from Bahia:
Bahia’s Unblending Meditation: https://bahiamiller.com/unblend
The Self-Led Love Checklist: https://bahiamiller.com/checklist
www.bahiamiller.com

🔮 For couples who are committed to growth and ready to build real emotional intelligence together using IFS — the Self Led Love Lab waitlist is open: https://bahiamiller.com/waitlist

Want to go deeper into the work?
🎧 For our podcast community:
Join the Repair for Relationship Resilience Workshop for $22
Use code PODCAST
https://bahiamiller.com/repair-workshop

*Self-Led Love Podcast Disclaimer*

Self-Led Love is a space for reflection, education, and relational growth. The content shared here is offered for educational and informational purposes only, and reflects my lived experience and professional perspective as an Internal Family Systems–informed relationship coach.

Any stories shared on the podcast are either my own, anonymized, or composite examples drawn from real experiences. Identifying details have been changed to protect privacy and confidentiality.

This podcast is not a substitute for therapy, medical care, legal advice, or mental health treatment. While many listeners may find resonance, insight, or support through this...

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:01

Welcome to Self-Led Love with me, your host, Bahia Miller. Together, using the powerful framework of Internal Family Systems, we will take on the spiritual and also human curriculum of becoming radically responsible for our parts and how they show up and grow up in intimate partnership. I'm so glad you're here. Let's dive in. Welcome back, everyone. Today I'm so excited to welcome Patricia Rich to the podcast. I am going to read her bio. I've been kind of circling Patricia's work and world in my IFS journey just with immense curiosity. And the little nuggets that I've I've learned from her at a distance have supported me, so I'm really excited to see where this conversation goes today. So I'll read her bio. Patricia Rich, L C S W C S T S, pronounced she her, is a certified level three IFS therapist and approved consultant and an AASECT certified sex therapist and supervisor. She has developed a unique integrative model for self-led sexuality to help people find more ease, joy, and confidence in the bedroom and beyond. She has originated IFS informed concepts such as internal consent and the six S's of sexual self-energy, and has presented at the IFS conference, taught for the IFS Institute Online Continuity Program, led workshops internationally, and authored several book chapters. She offers training and consultation to professionals and loves helping people to behold and lead their internal sexual system, which stands for bliss. Oh, she hosts Self-Led in Bed, an IFS and sexuality podcast, and lives in the Philadelphia area where she also has a private practice. You can get her free guide to the six S and learn more about her offerings at www.patricia Rich.com or follow her on Instagram at Patricia Rich Counseling. Consulting. Patricia Ritz Consulting. That link will be in the bio. Welcome, Patricia. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you for having me. Yes, yes. This feels like an important conversation to kind of round out the beginnings of this podcast journey because couples and love and IFS and parts, like sexuality is just right in there, right in there for all of us. So thank you. I'm honored to be here.

SPEAKER_01 2:44

I look forward to the conversation.

SPEAKER_04 2:46

Yay. So I would love to just start with a little bit about you, how you came to the work with sex and intimacy, with IFS. Um yeah, I just want to hear kind of your mission.

SPEAKER_01 3:01

So I always have a lot of different parts that could chime in on how I got to what I'm doing now. And I can try to sum it up, I guess, with, of course, all sorts of coming of age things. You know, the family I grew up in, which I would say was pretty warmly connected and pretty sex positive, although it wasn't explicitly discussed, but I feel like I have some legacy gifts in that regard. A lot of warmly connected couples in my family background. I also was in the shadow, which I didn't even realize at the time, of some pretty significant sexual trauma from other generations that were part of, I think it also unspoken. Like, like there were both the warmth of these people that were in my life, but then in other parts of the family that I think there were some different kinds of issues people had that no one talked about that caused, you know, you know, just uh trauma at different levels, you know, for different people. So it was kind of like I had a curiosity, always about how people connect with each other. And, you know, that was sort of the environment I grew up in. And then I got interested in social work and worked with families for a while, but really liked working with the parents. And I worked started out in a child and family program and really liked talking to the parents because it seemed like when when they were doing well, you know, the kids tended to do better. Not that that was the whole story, but it didn't hurt. And I was pretty comfortable with sexuality. So I would just include that in our conversations. And a lot of the couples were so happy about that. Like no one, you know, we've seen therapists for years and no one ever asked us about our sex life or we never felt comfortable enough with someone to be able to share what some of our struggles are in that department. And of course, not everyone was in a partnership, but for, you know, single parents as well, just to be able to include their own sexual story and so forth was so impactful. So I decided to study sex therapy and get a little more formal training. And now, many years later, you know, I've worked with people with so many, such a broad spectrum of sexual challenges and of all different ages from very young to very older adult, people who are older adults. And then I trained in that before I trained in IFS, but it was just shortly thereafter. I was maybe your listeners who are therapists will be able to relate to this feeling of like, when when will I be done? You know, with all my training and certifications. So I'm like, yay, I'm a sex therapist. And then as I was listening to sex therapists, I'm like, oh, they all still seem to have like another skill set that they're using as they're doing the sex therapy. So, and I really felt like I wanted something that went deeper than, you know, we were taught really valuable information and behavioral strategies and social consciousness and things like that. But I I felt like I wanted something that would really help me be with people around sexuality in a much deeper, more meaningful way. So IFS kind of crossed my path. I had a little bit of exposure to it very early on when IFS was young. I was in Chicago in the early 90s actually, and had some passing exposure to that when Dick was in Chicago and my supervisor was one of his students. So I had the familiarity, but not really the understanding of what it was, and it wasn't even developed as fully then. So it kind of crossed my path again after I had become a sex therapist. And I was really excited about it because it also lined up with my own understanding of myself already. I had already started to notice my parts and engage with them, although I didn't necessarily call it that and had, you know, it just resonated. So then when I put the two together, it was so powerful.

SPEAKER_04 7:10

Amazing. Yeah. I mean, it's such a probably a rich trailhead, right? For all of us. Like so much, there's so much around sexuality, so many parts. I mean, tell us, right? Like, I guess I'm curious, right? As I even start this podcast recording with you, like I've, you know, been thinking about it since we scheduled it a month ago. And I'm like, oh, I I'm noticing the parts of me that are nervous to have this conversation. And I I've worked with some of them since then, but I'm just curious, like, just to speak to why does it, why is it so vulnerable or uncomfortable to talk about sex? Right. I love that you have this gift of like being comfortable in this world, but why is it hard for some of us?

SPEAKER_01 7:50

Yeah, well, I think that's a wonderful trailhead, right? To sort of notice the discomfort, sort of imagine. And I often ask people to imagine different sexual contexts, you know, and how hard or how like what do you feel in your body, or you know, what comes into your mind when you picture yourself maybe having a conversation about sex with, you know, a friend, a close friend, or with a medical provider, or with your current partner, or, you know, just like because often the feelings are somewhat different in different contexts. But if you notice there's a consistency, you know, there's like a you know, like something that just feels so uncomfortable. Of course, I always invite people to be curious, you know, and sort of see for you what is that?

SPEAKER_00 8:37

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 8:39

And of course, there's some lots of variables that, you know, can influence that, how we were raised and how our parents were and our families were in terms of use of direct language about sex and sexuality. It might bring up, you know, sometimes we don't talk about it much, and so it actually like our our body parts are listening. So sometimes if we don't talk about sex much, it's like, oh, maybe like our body perks up a little, our sex parts perk up a little. And then like that might feel super awkward because we don't want to feel that or we don't know what to do with that. You know, there's just a lot of things. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 9:22

Right. Thank you for opening this up a little bit and providing some possibilities, right? Like it sounds it's so personal, right? As what I'm hearing you say, like just the parts of us that might get uncomfortable. So many, so many cultural things, familial things, physiological, somatic things. Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:42

And vulnerability, of course. You know, it can be very just a very private part of life, you know, and there's things about the privacy that may be burdened, you know, where there's like really, you know, so much heavy stuff loaded onto it, shamefulness, you know, prohibitions, all those things. So sometimes the privacy is a little closer to like, you know, shame or inhibition or disconnection, you know. But but sometimes it's actually a more sacred kind of privacy too. Like this is just a deeply private part of my life and my being. And maybe it doesn't really feel like something I want to be talking about with others, you know. So that's something else I always invite people to feel into. Like, how do you, how can you discern if you're feeling uncomfortable, sort of where's that coming from? What's what's it protecting? And what ways are you in alignment with protecting in that way? And in what ways might you want to um, you know, maybe be curious and see if you can access a little more comfort and spaciousness?

SPEAKER_04 10:48

As you're saying that, I'm having this like image in my mind of just like self-led boundaries, kind of, right? Like that and the orientation of that some come from burdens and shame, and some are actually just healthy. Like it's okay to have some privacy or to feel into what feels good to share with another person, your partner, a practitioner, or what feels good to keep close. Yeah, I love that. Well, I would love to hear the the piece of your work that has like really kind of, you know, I has sifted through my mind is these six S's. And I'm really curious and excited to share them with the listeners. Does that feel like a good place to dive into? Or is there anything that you feel like needs to be said before we go there?

SPEAKER_01 11:35

So I actually could pick up a bit with my story of how I discovered IFS and I was already a sex therapist. And initially I was, you know, because I'm a sex therapist, people were having some specific sexual difficulties when they would come to see me, and I would help them to use IFS by focusing on, you know, their feelings about it or whatever was happening in their body. And through that process, you know, maybe they would differentiate their parts and they would start to access more self-energy, which is kind of this core, you know, essence inside that is these amazing qualities that somehow seem to be able to kind of re-reorder and you know, realign things inside. And so being self-led, and my podcast has a similar title to yours, right? So being self-led in bed, uh, to me, it has to do with like kind of knowing who we are as we're doing what we do. Sexually, that sometimes it's not such an easy feat, right? Yeah. Um, there's so many parts of us that can have jobs and roles and defensive positions and vulnerable stuff, right? So there's it's it can be really quite quite a complex pile of parts. So it's all really really helpful just for people to just to validate that. And so if listeners are listening, like, hey, like if when you you know turn toward your own inner experience of sexuality, if it looks a little messy, you're not alone. You know, it's not unusual. And certainly if you're trying to really understand it, like there's so many components and contributing factors and of course parts that then have to navigate all that stuff, right? Thank you for validating that. Yes. So it, you know, it could be quite a journey and quite transformational just to open all that up more, you know, just to have some breathing room and to feel like, oh, I can feel two opposing things at the same time. You know, I can love my husband and I can also want to get as far away from him as possible. Like those can both be true. You know, I can want to have a sexual relationship and I can also, you know, have all kinds of reasons that I never really show up for one. Right. And so when we can start to understand the parts underneath us that are underneath us. I love that. The parts within us or above or below that, you know, have some protective instinct there or some burden they're carrying, like it just starts to make sense of what could feel very confusing or contradictory.

SPEAKER_03 14:27

Right.

SPEAKER_01 14:28

And so the you know, that's one really important piece of just I think feeling sexually self-led is just being able to bring in some self-energy to be with all of this.

SPEAKER_00 14:44

Yes, yeah. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 14:46

So as I worked with people that way, I I continued to be curious. I have some very strong curiosity in my system. And I started to get curious about sexual, about like where does sexuality live in the internal system? Is it purely biological? You know, is it just hormones and reflexes? Is it is it part, you know, are parts the ones having sexual pleasure? Is it like self-energy? So I just started to get all curious about that, sort of geeking out a little bit. I did my first conference, IFS conference workshop. Actually, my second one, I called Who Comes, like parts and self in the internal system. Love it. I was like, anyway, got very curious. So and then people started to ask me also, like, how do I know if I'm self-led sexually? You know, how can I tell if I'm part-led or self-led? And I I do like to say it that's not a good bad thing, right? Our parts can, you know, sexuality is an important resource in our system. So parts may engage with it, you know, and lead. And as long as it's something we're choosing, we're okay with it, we're not harming ourselves or others. I don't think it's like a good bad, but I think it's qualitatively feels a little different when there's more self-energy available. And so I was like, well, how you know, the eight C words which Dick Schwartz developed, you know, calm, curious, compassionate, all those kind of words, they were helpful, but not as helpful in a sexual context as they might be in in other ones. I think they're so important, but um, but these six S words came to me. Um, and I was like, what does it feel like? And some of it was looking at my own experiences. How do I know? Like, how can I tell if I'm feeling some self-energy around my own sexuality? And it's like, well, it feels like there's something inside that feels safe and sensual and spacious and sensitive and steamy and satisfied.

SPEAKER_00 17:02

Yum. Can I ask you?

SPEAKER_01 17:06

Like curious, but yeah, I saw your face. I heard you say, yeah. What what what happened for you? Here I mean words.

SPEAKER_04 17:12

You know, I I was almost like, oh, I want to just take these in for a second. I want to like take them in as a meditation of like, oh, what does it feel like in my body to have those? Will you name them again one more time? Sure. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:27

So feeling safe, sensual, spacious, sensitive, steamy, and satisfied.

SPEAKER_02 17:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 17:41

Thank you. I mean, that's like that's like a meditation in itself, right? Just to hear those words for me. Like yeah, there is that spaciousness and playfulness that comes. And you know, I've been on my own journey with parts around sexuality and um and you know, it provides like hope, right? That there can that it can be safe and enjoyable to access like sensitivity and all of those all of those beautiful words um with another human being or with myself, you know, whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:21

Thank you for for sharing that. And so like when I was first those words first occurred to me, I was trying to help them, trying to develop language to use words as like parts detectors, if you will. So how can I tell, and also self-detectors, I guess. You know, how can I tell if I'm accessing some self-energy here? So the six S are qualities that self may have that you might experience your self-energy as having in a sexual context, or sometimes not even in a sexual context, but it's kind of like um a body, an embodied self-energy. Sometimes we're talking about self-energy in a bit more of a transcendent kind of way. And I think that is really important as well. But when we think about our protector parts unblending and maybe our burdens clearing, I feel like our self-energy can be more in the body.

SPEAKER_00 19:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:23

Um learned a lot from Susan McConnell and Somatic IFS about that and and and others as well. But when we sort of settle in, I'm like, oh, okay, like the self-energy already has qualities, these qualities. Like we don't have to create these qualities. It's like our essence already has these qualities. And I could elaborate, you know, each one has, you know, different things I could say about it, but it's not to say that we always are safe or we always want to be open to our sensuality. And we may have parts that very specifically might get between us and having experience of those qualities. But in that sense, these can be parts detectors. Okay, what's between me and feeling safe right now? What's between me and being able to feel pleasure? Even just right now, I'm rubbing my hands together. If I'm really like now I can barely feel it because I'm focused on you and I have some educating parts up, right? Sure. But if I slow down a little and I'm like, am I feeling safe? Like I realize they kind of go in a sequence.

SPEAKER_04 20:36

That makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 20:37

Like you could, they don't have to, but like safe. That's not shocking, right? Like that, okay, what am I feeling safe right now? Well, I'll feel a little exposed, you know, have some parts on the job and feel pretty safe, but maybe I could just let those ones know I'm doing okay right now, you know. You know, so then I might like deepen a little. And then I might be like, hmm, do I want to kind of feel something in my hands? Like, do I do I want to be present to the kind of pleasantness of my own touch? And I can just check inside and have a part saying, Yeah, but not too long. You're on a podcast.

SPEAKER_00 21:13

Yes. Don't get too into it.

SPEAKER_01 21:19

You know, so then with that permission, those parts stepping back, like I start to feel more, like I could feel sensation more now in my hands. Like they're actually like way different than they were a second ago. Right. So those parts unblended, I got a little more embodied and present. I sort of got some permission from my system for a little bit of experiencing of my, you know, the sensual touch.

SPEAKER_00 21:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:47

And so you know, there's just a little example in that of how that we could use the S's as also what I call positive trailheads.

SPEAKER_00 22:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:00

You know, like how do I get from here to like the proverbial there? You know, like it's okay, I can slow down, I can pause, I can you know, check in, I can ask some parts to unblend. And then I can take a moment to see, you know, what feels good. You know, and that kind of continues through this.

SPEAKER_04 22:27

That's beautiful. It's it almost sounds like a mindfulness practice, right? To move through them.

SPEAKER_01 22:32

Very much so. Yeah. But um, I use them when I'm not in a sexual situation at all because it's really about presencing and a very becoming very present and embodied. I guess I would like to say a little more about each one. Please, please, yeah. Absolutely. So when we're talking about this as self-energy, it's like, oh, my own, like who I ultimately am on the inside, it's like okay to be that person or that, you know what I mean? Like there's like a safety, which you know, is not a lot of people's lived experience, you know, especially as children. Like if our most authentic, you know, enthusiasm or initiative or what we actually really like and dislike is regarded as threatening or bad or shameful by our caregivers, we learn really quickly that we need, you know, food and shelter and for someone to hold us. You know, we learn pretty quickly that matters more at that stage of life. And so people can get super disconnected from their own authentic experience and start to actually regard their own authentic, you know, maybe pleasure in their body or desires as actually really dangerous. And so you can get really a split happening there, and that's where the protectors come in and some stuff gets exiled, right? Right. So, like, depending on what people's stories are, you know, that the first S might be easy peasy, you know, for some people, and for others, like it's a tremendous journey to get into a place of feeling safe enough to embody you know, your own energy and to feel safe with it.

SPEAKER_00 24:28

Yeah. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 24:33

I have definitely, you know, I checked in with myself leading up to this podcast. How much do I want to share about my own journey with audience and but the journey to safety with myself, like to safety to explore, even, um, has has been a process. And to the switch to engaging with myself from shame-based thinking, right? And like, oh, I'm so broken, those burdens, to like this more compassionate place has been a process, which is why part of why I love IFS so much, right, is that it helped me. I think my first therapist said, like, we're gonna, you know, turn on or wake up your heart, right? And it helps me wake up my heart to those places. But even with the IFS foundation, right, it's still taken a decade to get to where I am now, which feels really good. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's a lot of weird wires crossing from so many different places around this topic for some of us. So safety and then what? And then what?

SPEAKER_01 25:40

Right. So safety um then might open the sensuality one. Right. So this idea that self-energy actually feels good when we're really embodying our self-energy. A lot of people might describe that as feeling sort of like soft or kind of warm or like a little bit of a buzz energy, just subtle. Like, so there's actually, I think, a pleasurable feeling when we are, you know, feeling more of our own self-energy.

SPEAKER_04 26:10

And sensuality distinct from sexuality, right? Just I just love to like that.

SPEAKER_01 26:16

Yeah, to me, and then so then, and then I would say being open to pleasant sensations. You know, so sensuality isn't just sensory, because sensory could actually be really unpleasant. Right? Feeling overstimulated or things that are, you know, not enjoyable. Yes. So to me, sensuality is, you know, kind of being in tune, like being able to take in our sensory experience, but like enjoy the things that feel good for us.

SPEAKER_00 26:47

Beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 26:48

Yeah. So then when we're feeling safe and sensual, we might notice feeling more spacious, like a more expansive feeling. And often sex can feel very constricted. You know, like people are operating in a very narrow lane, and it might be something, you know, that there's just lots of parts around, or people were raised with a very pro a lot of prohibition around sex. So maybe there's only a very narrow pathway for what feels like it's permitted, or there's all sorts of things, a lot of burdens in the system. So that could be a a way to find those parts and those burdens if it's very difficult to feel spacious. And then that might open more sensitivity. So if you're feeling safe and sensual and spacious, you may notice. I think of this almost picturing like a flower, like a bud that was tightly closed, and then it just as it starts to open and spread out, you sort of get to that stuff on the inside that's more sensitive. Right. So like it's actually the reproductive, you know, parts of the plant, right? Of a flower. So these like more tender, sensitive, you know, parts of ourselves. That could be our emotional sensitivity, our attunement to someone else, you know, maybe a lot of, you know, kind of like intimacy might be able to be shared at that place, from that place.

SPEAKER_00 28:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:22

And it might be that sensation that was pleasant now starts to feel ooh. Like now it's starting to kind of transition to into more of an erotic kind of feeling. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. With permission, you know, from the system.

SPEAKER_00 28:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:40

And then steamy, this idea that uh self-energy is steamy, embodied, I like to say embodied self-energy because we're feeling it in our bodies, that we can feel passion, like we can, I think of it almost as like when we can like go all the way in terms of what we're actually feeling or what's flowing through us. So steaminess may lead to sexual arousal with or without orgasm, with or without another person, you know. So there could be that notion, like it may translate into that physical experience, but it also could be from a self-energy standpoint. Just that self-energy can, when we embody it more and more, we may just feel more energy, more passion, more sort of waves, maybe.

SPEAKER_04 29:28

Yeah. Yeah. I hear like just allowing in that.

SPEAKER_01 29:32

Yeah. Yeah. And then satisfied is this idea that our self-energy is already complete and it doesn't need anything to happen to be satisfied, right? So it doesn't mean our parts don't want certain sexual outcomes, or that our body doesn't maybe engorge and like crave like a release of that or whatever it is, get excited, but that the self-energy is whole and complete already. So we're not less than, or so many people's systems are kind of aligned so that um there's like a pass-fail experience when they go to bed, right? And so either I was a good lover or bad lover, or I would look good or I look bad, or you know, like all that stuff. And and often the system is organized that way in order to either try to get a little food to the exiles or to prevent the exiles from coming out, right? And so um this idea that self-energy has sexual qualities and it's already whole and complete is like, oh, like when all those parts can step back, I could just approach the sexual experience with curiosity and openness and see what happens and play, and maybe it'll lead to some steaminess and maybe it won't be that steamy, and I could kind of be whole and complete no matter what happens, and I can stay. Like I can stay here.

SPEAKER_04 31:10

Wow, that sounds amazing. Sign me up. Let's go. It's beautiful, like really. I feel like you're the hope martian of sexual unfolding and pleasure. That's so beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 31:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 31:24

It's really important.

SPEAKER_01 31:25

And that you know, there's so much pressure, you know, that people can feel for so many reasons. And I know you work with parents a lot. Is that right? A lot of parents, yep. And couples. Um you know, the more pressure we have on ourselves, like the more, especially if we're already tired and don't have a lot of time, it can be a lot easier to just not go there.

SPEAKER_00 31:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:49

You know, like, hey, let's just, you know, take care of this on my own, I'm gonna take care of this on my own, or I just don't wanna, I don't have the bandwidth, like, or maybe it if I can't be perfect, I don't want to do it at all. Or, you know, there's just a lot of things. Um, you know, maybe that opens a whole nother door. There's so there's a lot of challenges, you know, that that parents, you know, face that can impact sexuality, but just to stay with the successes for a minute, yeah. That's kind of a little tour. So they can serve as parts detectors and self-energy detectors, they can serve as positive trail heads, you know, that you can kind of track along with them and then maybe, you know, help yourself move through them. And they actually can just be, like you said, sort of a presencing practice, almost like a just a a way to connect and feel more embodied and alive. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 32:45

Yeah. Okay, so yeah, I love these six S so much. I love that you've given us this kind of like trailhead, this positive trailhead. I've never heard that phrase before, a positive trailhead. I mean, I think I use that myself in ways, but I love that you've named it that. And, you know, as you mentioned the parents, I'm thinking of like all the external constraints that exist for folks that distract them from sex and connecting sexually. And then I'm there's the internal constraints. And I know I'm sure that they affect each other, right? And I'm thinking of the nervous system. And maybe if we just stay with parents for a second, right? I'm thinking of my marriage and my four-year-old and our dysregulated nervous system with our amazing turbo child, like, right? Like, and the time restraints, and there's so many different things that affect the ability to be spontaneous or the ability to just have time to decompress and the ways that we do that. Where do you start with people who have, you know, constraints or children? Like, where do you start an inquiry? Yeah. Where's the best bang for your buck to pit to tend to your own sexual system and with your partner? Right.

SPEAKER_00 33:58

So to speak, of course. So to speak. Yeah.

unknown 34:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:04

I would say start where you are. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 34:07

So if you were, may I Yeah. Assume you were coming in to see me and that topic came up. I would want to ask you. I actually use the S's as a clinical framework also. So I would just say, well, do you feel, you know, okay? Do you feel safe? Do you feel interested in talking a little more about your sex life?

SPEAKER_04 34:32

Huh. Right. And then right. So if if folks are not even interested in talking about it, then you just don't go there, I guess, right?

SPEAKER_01 34:43

Is that Yeah, we yeah, we would really we always I think consent is always so important.

SPEAKER_04 34:48

Tell yeah, let's talk tell me about the consent piece. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:51

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's um in the sex therapy world, we talk about consent a lot, and it's always really, as I've heard it about interpersonal consent. And I got curious as I was hearing my clients describe things that they did that maybe they even initiated, but then felt really bad about later. I was realizing, well, consent actually, when we have this lens of multiplicity, different parts want different things, or you know, parts can take over. I'm like, gosh, you know, I think consent really needs to start internally. And so I developed this notion of internal consent. And I came up with a few different tools to help people access that. But I think it's it resonates very naturally with IFS, where we have this notion of getting permission from protectors before going to the more vulnerable parts. Right. And so this idea of internal consent is like, okay, how like really slowing down, really pausing and saying, really, is this really okay for me right now? Like what am I open to this? And how is it landing for me? So often just slowing down is a huge thing, like just slowing down and checking. And then once there's sort of, yeah, I'm okay for this, you know, then you could check in again if this starts to become that. Am I still okay? You know, do I want that? So it's an ongoing process. And initially, if people don't really have that familiarity to focus inward, or maybe when they do, there's one main part. You know, that that might be what they're working with initially. But as they get to know their sexual system better, they might be able to diversify what I call like their internal consent committee, you know, to bring in more different parts or body parts or just different things so that our consent can really feel, you know, deep and authentic. So that is so then when I'm clinically working with people, um, and again, it depends what they've presented as the reason they're coming to see me. And of course, I'm a sex therapist, so people are more likely to have that top of mind. But for any therapist, I think it's good to get to a place where you can welcome those conversations.

SPEAKER_04 37:24

Well, I well, I mean, if I if I was that client, maybe getting back into it, but if I was that client, I think I would say, like, if I was a parent, I was exhausted, I would say, my cup is empty. I don't want to talk about, you know, having sex because I don't feel like I have anything left for me, right?

SPEAKER_01 37:43

Yeah, yeah. And is that okay? Like, is it are there any parts of you that wanted to bring that in as a topic? Or like is your partner bringing that as a concern? Right, right. And yes, they probably might be. Yeah. So, like, like if someone is just like, I I'm I don't have room for this, I would be like, okay, you have you have clarity, you know, like you have clarity about that. And I would still want to make room to say, you know, is a hundred percent of you feel that way, or if you weren't as tired, would it be different? Um, just to kind of get the representation of some different parts there. But, you know, I don't have an agenda around how much sex, you know, anyone has. Right, right. You know, so it's really about like, you know, say there's two parents and it's like neither one of them has time, and they're both okay with it, and they're finding ways to feel connection with each other and to nourish their connection and their relationship that may or may not be sexual, and that's okay for both of them. Awesome, you know. But if it's not, you know, they're starting to get less connected and you know, it's it's or one person is exhausted and the other person feels like like ignored and neglected. Yeah. You know, then there's something that needs to be looked at.

SPEAKER_04 39:09

Right. Right. And that's exactly it's kind of what I it mirrors in my mind what you were saying earlier in the podcast about like when we have to make that choice between our authenticity and our attachment, right? When we're in this relationship with another person, it's like, okay, I don't really have space for this, but this person really wants this. And how do we bridge the gap or talk about this in a constructive way or figure out like I don't know, right? And this brings up desire differential and how to navigate that, which I think a lot of people who I've spoken with, you know, deal with. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:46

And then this might get to that question of why does it matter?

SPEAKER_00 39:53

Right? Yeah. Why does sex matter? Yeah, let's go there. Yeah. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 39:59

And I feel like I spend a lot of time um trying to like clear misconceptions. And actually, the model I've developed, the self-led sexuality model, includes IFS, embodied practices, education about human sexuality, a larger systems lens, and journeys of exploration. So this is where I would be bringing in a little bit of that education piece, potentially. And just saying, let's just like look for a minute at um the function of sexuality in a close relationship or a marriage. And, you know, if people are coming in thinking, oh, this is just like, you know, um, I don't know, it's just a great, you know, my partner just wants to gratify themselves and I'm supposed to help, you know, that's gonna be a very burden feeling. But if it's like, oh, like sexuality is the way that we can nourish each other and find each other when we get lost and we can, you know, kind of re light up, you know, our circuits of connection together. And when we do that, all the other stuff starts to to go easier and better.

SPEAKER_00 41:20

You know, like that's a different frame, right? Yeah. So kind of looking at how does sexuality, why does it matter?

SPEAKER_01 41:32

You know, how how does it that fuel your relationship? How does it and we're working against the culture here a lot of the time. And I feel like there's so many expectations on parents to be so child-centered, you know, and so many parents I've talked to would like never miss a birthday party, you know, for their child, or like a friend's, you know, not their own kid's birthday party, but you know, like they would never miss something that their kid was scheduled to do. But they would go months, you know, without having time for some closeness with their partner.

SPEAKER_04 42:11

Thanks for naming that.

SPEAKER_01 42:12

Thanks for because we gotta really look at this. Like, what's the budget of time and emotional energy? And how much is the marriage sort of getting dragged like a tid can behind the car, you know, with the kids all over the front seat, you know? And how could it be different? How could it be that, you know, kind of nourishing the connection that the parents have, or um, even for a single parent, you know, like a sense of embodiment and health and well-being for yourself and charging your batteries and like maybe your kids go to like, you know, a couple fewer activities or events or parties, you know, like maybe time gets budgeted a little bit differently. So it's sort of like a whole it can really get into how do we prioritize things, you know, where do we exhaust ourselves, or of course we've got all the technology, which is such a challenge, yeah, too, you know, just all these things that suck away at our time and energy.

SPEAKER_00 43:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:11

Then that the marital connection or the relationship connection can wind up just on life support.

SPEAKER_04 43:19

A hundred percent. Yeah. The becoming, I think thank you so much for everything you're saying. I think becoming parents really like reorients parts and stuff, we can get lost in those children and forget our partners, you know, to whatever degree. And really looking at the ways that we are starving ourselves, you know, whether it's conscious or unconscious, for in in this way for connection, um, and discovering kind of a shared or even just a personal context of how sex can be supportive to ourselves seems really important.

SPEAKER_01 43:54

And really, it's often, I find, not just about this particular sexual. Act, you know, but just keeping alive in yourself that you can see your partner as a sexual being, you know, an appealing, attractive person. And sometimes you don't have a lot of time, but you can whisper a little something in the other person's ear, or you can, you know, a little, you know, quickie something sometimes, or like, but when it's self-led, you know, when there's some self-energy on board and you're able to really come from the heart with that, you can, you know, it doesn't always have to be some some big, you know, impressive thing. You know what I mean? It's sort of like an acknowledgement of your own bodies and and feelings for each other.

SPEAKER_04 44:45

That's really beautiful. I feel like there's a really potent, simple invitation there. Simple, maybe not easy, but to I feel like a lot of the couples that I'm thinking of, right, like maybe are working with parts of themselves that are dealing with frustrations in partnership, parenting, whatever, but to work with those parts enough to get just enough spaciousness for a little bit of this self-led kind of playful sexual or sensual energy to find its way through and to focus on that and to focus on the things we find attractive and enticing and fun about our partner and to say that to each other out loudly.

SPEAKER_01 45:29

And even just doing that for ourselves, you know, because you know, it's easy to just, you know, be focused on a partner's flaws and there can be plenty. Sure. But just accessing a little bit of our own, like the successes for ourselves, right? Do I have a minute just to notice, just to come into my own body? You know, can I slow down enough just to kind of feel my own sensuality, even if I'm just like squiggling in my chair here for a minute? Can I can I feel myself, be with myself, unblend, well, those parts be willing to unblend so I can just be a little more here, even with my exhausted and annoyed parts and hold them with care. Maybe that's where things are right now, you know. But that that will maybe start to open up a little more self-energy that could eventually extend into the relationship.

SPEAKER_04 46:21

I love that. So we're going to kind of bring this conversation to a close for today. And I'm just, yeah, excited people can find you find you on your website and on your Instagram if they want to learn more and deepen into the work that you are stewarding, which is so beautiful. But yeah, is there anything else that you kind of would love to share with us as we kind of round out this conversation today?

SPEAKER_01 46:44

Yeah, thanks, Bahia. I I would like to just invite listeners to take a breath or two and notice how this conversation is landing. You know, just landing in your body, landing in your parts system. And it's a lot, right? Like this can be a lot, and it can touch on some stuff that can feel pretty exciting sometimes, or on the other hand, like pretty overwhelming. So I just invite an awareness of how this whole topic of sexuality um kind of sits with you. And just to get curious about, you know, what parts of yourself might want a little more time, a little more space to be witnessed in this, you know, and that's kind of the inner experience of it, you know, and as you're in the inner experience, it might have you noticing some things about your outer experience, you know, like, is this making me curious to talk about some of this with a partner or a friend? Like, are there some way I want to bring this out, extend this out into connection beyond my system, maybe with a therapist, you know, like anyone, because really one of my primary motives in the work I'm doing is to open conversations. You know, I've just noticed this is a topic that doesn't, it's so fundamental to quality of life and connection and all the things we talk about as therapists, but it's so often not in the room or not not being spoken for. And so, you know, just whether it's inner conversations, that the the people are having their own system or starting to bring it into outer conversations with other people to just experiment a little bit to see how that feels. And if you want a little more of that, I can definitely share some resources. Beautiful.

SPEAKER_04 48:40

Yeah, any resources that you feel like might be beneficial for folks.

SPEAKER_01 48:45

Yeah. I have my podcast, of course, Self-Led in Bed, an IFS and Sexuality Podcast, and there's episodes on a really wide range of topics that kind of intersect IFS and sexuality. I have on my website um www.patricia rich.com. I have a free guide to the successes of sexual self-energy, and there's also a couple meditations on there that are free, and so people could get those, and they can also reach out to me at that point for my website for for further contact. I have a book chapter in this book, IFS Integration, uh, that's put out by PESI on self-led sexuality. So lots of lots of things people could follow up with.

SPEAKER_04 49:33

Amazing. And I like, thank you for all those. I'll make sure they're all linked for our listeners. And I do love to ask, just in my closing questions, for any tips or tricks or ways that you best like to unblend around parts that might come up around this topic, either maybe in the moment or like in a sexual connecting moment, or just like, you know, when you're working with these. Do you have any favorite unblending techniques that you might want to name?

SPEAKER_01 50:04

Honestly, the one I shared around the successes is one I use a lot. Am I feeling safe right now? And if not, what's between me and feeling safe? So, you know, I guess that can find parts, but it also sometimes just helps parts like sort of spontaneously unblend.

SPEAKER_00 50:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:26

The other thing is that um I have very contrarian parts. If I I don't want to necessarily ask them to unblend, but I want to acknowledge them.

SPEAKER_04 50:37

Just acknowledging what's here.

SPEAKER_01 50:39

Yeah, just like gosh, it feels like there's a part here who's feeling really like anxious and and not so present, you know, and maybe just breathing with the part a little bit, like, hey, I I feel ya, you know, and um is there's you know, more you want me to know. Just brief, you know, just a little acknowledgement as opposed to just like like get out of here.

SPEAKER_04 51:04

Right. Yeah, yeah. I love the invitation to just let it be blended and be aware that you're blended, maybe. Right. Right.

SPEAKER_01 51:13

Thanks. Even that awareness, that little bit of awareness of it is a little, I think C Sykes talks about like a mini unblend, you know, just just breathing with the part, noticing it even a little bit is a bit of brings a little self-energy in.

SPEAKER_04 51:28

Thank you. And the last question I like to ask is if you had any piece of relationship advice that you could whisper back in time to another version of yourself, younger version of yourself, what would you whisper back?

SPEAKER_01 51:45

Um that was an interesting question when I I thought. Um Yeah, I'm still refining this question.

SPEAKER_04 51:53

This yeah, yeah. If it feels too intimate, then you can skip it. But I just like love to get any like nuggets of wisdom about relationship. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:02

Yeah. I mean, what came to me, well, I'll just say it in the present tense. What comes to me there is wanting to tell this teenage part of myself who just was not fitting in and feeling wanted or desired. I would want to let that part of myself know to hang in there and that all the stuff that makes her feel weird and unwanted is gonna be the ticket for a very fulfilling life.

SPEAKER_04 52:39

That makes me so emotional. Thank you for saying that. I know. Yeah, it's a vulnerable question. Thank you for just sharing her with us.

SPEAKER_02 52:50

Thank you for feeling it.

SPEAKER_04 52:53

I really do, I really do. This has been such a rich conversation. I wish I could talk to you every day for a week about all of the different things that I want to deepen. But here we start. And yeah, thank you so much for being here. And if you want to follow Patricia's podcast and go deeper with her there, there she'll be in all the other ways. So thank you everyone for tuning in, for your courageous heart, for listening to these trailheads, and for taking responsibility for your own life. This is the deal. We're doing it. All right, thanks everyone.