Rethinking Energy: How Mitochondria Shape Vitality, Aging, and Resilience in Modern Life

The conversation focused on one of the most pervasive issues in modern life: the normalization of exhaustion and declining energy as an inevitable part of aging. A key theme that emerged was the distinction between true biologic energy and mere stimulation, such as caffeine or stress hormones, and how modern culture often conflates the two. The discussion explored the central role of mitochondria, described as the body’s “hidden engines”, in generating vitality, resilience, and physiologic reserve, while highlighting how lifestyle choices continuously signal and shape mitochondrial function.

Several points were raised, including how contemporary habits, like sedentary behavior, overconsumption of ultra-processed foods, chronic stress, and poor sleep, are profoundly mismatched with human biology. One concept discussed was “metabolic flexibility,” the body’s capacity to efficiently switch between fuel sources, and how its loss contributes to fatigue, cravings, and diminished adaptability. The conversation provided hopeful insight, emphasizing that the body remains remarkably adaptive even later in life, and that focusing on foundational habits, movement, sleep, nutrition, and recovery is more powerful than any biohacking shortcut.

Listeners are invited to challenge their assumptions about energy, health, and aging, and to rethink what it means to truly feel alive in a modern world.

Timestamps:

00:00 The role of mitochondria in biology

05:58 Role of mitochondria in energy production

15:26 Explaining metabolic flexibility

20:25 Exercise and metabolic flexibility

26:04 High-intensity training zone

27:29 Importance of resistance training

35:53 Optimizing health beyond normal ranges

37:15 Understanding insulin resistance effects

47:21 Feeling unwell is normalized

52:50 Starting with mitochondrial health

57:48 Peptides and their benefits

58:34 Understanding NAD and Peptides

01:05:21 Focusing on healthspan and vitality

Show Website - https://theyounglab.com/

Dr. Michael Young's Clinic - http://denverwellnessaesthetic.com/

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Media Partner - https://www.tophealth.care/

“Disclaimer: Informational only. Not medical advice. Consult your doctor for guidance.”

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

I think one of the biggest lies modern culture has normalized is that feeling terrible is inevitable. If your energy suddenly dropped 40% overnight, you would panic. But if it slowly declines over 15 years, people become psychologically adapt. We've created a society where humans are simultaneously overfed, under muscled, overstimulated, under-recovered, and metabolically inflexible. The body doesn't maintain metabolically expensive systems if it no longer believes that they are needed. Your metabolism is not broken, your mitochondria aren't lazy, your biology is adaptive. The goal is not merely avoiding death. The goal is preserving vitality, resilience, and physiologic reserve for as long as possible. Yeah, totally. I meant people almost wear burnout like a badge of honor. Like I only slept four hours or I'm slammed or I'm running on caffeine. Meanwhile, biologically, the body is basically waving a white flag.

SPEAKER_00 1:34

Absolutely. I think that it's something that has definitely become normalized. And what's interesting about that, I think, is that people also assume maybe I'm just stressed out or I'm getting older. It's something that comes with age. But I know that you look at this completely differently and from a much different lens. So I think that you think a lot about what people are calling normal aging is actually declining energy production from a different level, a cellular level.

SPEAKER_01 1:59

Yeah, absolutely. I think one of the biggest lies modern culture has normalized is that feeling terrible is inevitable. Humans have never been more technologically advanced while simultaneously becoming more biologically fragile. We've engineered movement out of life, normalized ultra-processed food, destroyed sleep, normalized chronic stress, spend most of the day indoors staring at screens, and then we wonder why energy, resilience, and metabolic health are collapsing.

SPEAKER_00 2:32

Absolutely. And I think that this is where we are gonna dive into this conversation and really get into the science and the biology behind why people are feeling like this. So this is where mitochondria enters the conversation, right, Dr. Young?

SPEAKER_01 2:46

Yeah, exactly. Because mitochondria are really the hidden engines behind how alive we feel.

SPEAKER_00 2:53

Absolutely. And I think that most people will hear the word mitochondria and immediately flash back to high school biology. I mean, for me, for sure, I know the word, I'm somewhat familiar. It took me back to freshman year of high school. So I know I could use a refresher. So let's let's hop into that a little bit. What do you let's talk about it? So, what exactly is mitochondria?

SPEAKER_01 3:15

Yeah, no, we've learned that from elementary high school that mitochondria are the powerhouse of the cell.

SPEAKER_00 3:21

Exactly. And I think that that's kind of basically where everyone's memory of that cell really ends for the most part.

SPEAKER_01 3:28

And honestly, that phrase somehow made mitochondria sound way less interesting than they truly are.

SPEAKER_00 3:34

Absolutely. So let's let's fix that. Let's change everyone's narrative on that. What is or what are mitochondria really? What let's let's hop into it.

SPEAKER_01 3:45

Okay. So for me, mitochondria are honestly one of the most fascinating structures in human biology because, in many ways, they're the hidden engines behind vitality itself. They provide energy, recovery, metabolism, exercise capacity, cognition, hormone production, healing, aging. Almost everything we associate with feeling alive and resilient is heavily dependent on mitochondrial function. And the story itself is incredible. So the leading theory is that mitochondria were originally independent bacteria billions of years ago. And at some point, these bacteria entered into primitive cells, and instead of being destroyed, they formed a symbiotic relationship. The host cell provided protection and the mitochondria provided efficient energy production. And evolution basically said, this works. Keep this partnership. Now, trillions of these former bacteria live inside of us, helping power almost everything we do.

SPEAKER_00 4:43

That's pretty shocking and mind-blowing. It's definitely more than what I mean, I would have thought about it for sure.

SPEAKER_01 4:49

Yeah, I mean, it really is. And they still carry evidence of their bacterial origin. They have their own DNA, they replicate independently, they communicate with cells, which is fascinating because most people think mitochondria are these static little batteries sitting inside cells. They're not static at all. They're dynamic, they're adaptive, they're responsive, they're constantly listening to the environment we create.

SPEAKER_00 5:16

What do you mean by that exactly?

SPEAKER_01 5:18

Yeah, movement changes mitochondria, sleep changes mitochondria, stress changes mitochondria, nutrition changes mitochondria, light exposure changes mitochondria. We are literally training our mitochondria every day, whether you realize it or not. And I think that that's one of the biggest mind shifts in longevity medicine. Lifestyle becomes cellular signaling.

SPEAKER_00 5:42

Interesting. So, and I talk to a lot of providers and doctors all the time, and a lot of them are sleep-related or longevity related, but I've never heard it from this standpoint. So when people say I'm exhausted all the time, for example, that's potentially a mitochondrial conversation.

SPEAKER_01 5:58

Very often, yes, because mitochondria take the food that we eat and the oxygen that we breathe and convert it into ATP, which is our cellular form of energy. And that ATP or adenosin triphosphate powers almost everything associated with being alive. It powers your heartbeat, your thoughts, your muscle contractions, your hormone production, your repair, your recovery, your immune function. The human body is extraordinarily energy dependent. The brain alone consumes about 20% of the body's energy, despite being only about 2% of our body weight. The heart is packed with mitochondria because it literally never stops working. And the skeletal muscle is highly mitochondria dependent, especially during exercise.

SPEAKER_00 6:45

So when mitochondrial function starts declining, people don't just feel tired, essentially.

SPEAKER_01 6:51

Yeah, exactly. The whole system becomes less resilient. People often start experiencing fatigue or they have brain fog or poor recovery or exercise intolerance. And also you see worsening metabolic health, reduced stress tolerance, unstable energy, worsening sleep. And the important thing is that these changes often begin years before disease officially appears. And that's one of the biggest misconceptions in modern health. People think disease suddenly happens. Usually it doesn't. The body compensates remarkably well for a really long time.

SPEAKER_00 7:27

Yeah, I do think that's something that I definitely agree with and think that a lot of people think about disease just kind of happens. But it definitely sounds like it's it's a lot more to it than that. And it sounds like fatigue may actually be one of and one of the earliest biological warning signs, even.

SPEAKER_01 7:45

Yeah, absolutely. You know, I often say the body whispers before it screams. And many people normalize dysfunction because the decline happens gradually. So you think about it. If your energy suddenly dropped 40% overnight, you would panic. But if it slowly declines over 15 years, people become psychologically adapt. They start saying, well, I guess this is just aging, or I'm just busy, or I'm getting older. Meanwhile, physiologically, mitochondrial efficiency may be declining, metabolic flexibility may be worsening, insulin resistance may be developing, inflammation may be increasing, muscle mass may be declining long before traditional disease officially appears.

SPEAKER_00 8:28

That's interesting. I feel like that definitely changes, at least how I think about energy completely, or probably how most people will think about energy completely, because I think most people think low energy automatically, they kind of think I need more motivation or I need more caffeine or something along those lines.

SPEAKER_01 8:45

Exactly. But energy is not the same thing as stimulation. That's one of the biggest misunderstandings in modern life. Caffeine is stimulation. Hormone or stress hormones are stimulation. But real energy is efficient cellular function. These are completely different things. And I think many modern humans walking around are simultaneously overstimulated and biologically underpowered.

SPEAKER_00 9:13

That's interesting. I think that that's a common theme about people just being overstimulated most of the time, if not all the time, especially in modern life. So if mitochondria are constantly, let's say, adapting to the environment we create, do you think that we're basically damaging them with modern life?

SPEAKER_01 9:31

Yeah, I honestly think modern life is profoundly mismatched with human biology. Humans evolved under conditions that required adaptation. They required movement. We had scarcity. We have natural, well, we had natural light exposure. We had periods of exertion and recovery. Environmental flexibility was abundant, metabolic flexibility was easy. Now we live in an environment of chronic abundance and chronic stimulation. And biologically, abundance without movement becomes incredibly stressful.

SPEAKER_00 10:03

That's interesting. That's definitely an interesting way to say it or an interesting way to think about it.

SPEAKER_01 10:07

I mean, look at the average day for many people. People wake up exhausted because sleep quality is poor. They immediately check their phone. They have, we have this exposure to artificial light. We have high dopamine stimulation, even before the brain is fully awake. We're we're consuming ultra-processed foods or can a lot of sugar. We sit most of the day indoors, and we have this constant psychological stress. And also you add very little or minimal movement, then more stimulation late into the evening. And somehow we're we're surprised people feel terrible.

SPEAKER_00 10:41

It's really wild to think about because it's true. You wake up from the second you wake up to you put your phone down at night, you are overstimulated. There's so many things going on here. I know for me personally, I woke up this morning, I checked my phone, I grabbed my coffee. It sounds biologically insane when you think about it out loud.

SPEAKER_01 10:59

I mean, yeah, if you think about it out loud, it does. It sounds crazy. But, you know, we've created a society where humans are simultaneously overfed, under-muscled, overstimulated, under-recovered, and metabolically inflexible. And that's a dangerous physiologic combination.

SPEAKER_00 11:17

And so mitochondria are responding to all of that, pretty much.

SPEAKER_01 11:22

And constantly. And that's what's fascinating about mitochondria. They're not passive structures. They are constantly interpreting the environment. Movement signals to the mitochondria that we need more energy capacity. Exercise signals that we need to build stronger mitochondria. Sleep signals repair and recovery. Chronic stress signals that we're under threat. So ultra-processed foods and metabolic overload signal store energy, and the body is always adapting.

SPEAKER_00 11:52

So lifestyle literally becomes biological messaging almost.

SPEAKER_01 11:56

Exactly. And one of the biggest problems in modern life is that many people are continuously sending the body signals of overload without recovery. And eventually mitochondria efficiency starts declining.

SPEAKER_00 12:09

So what actually happens when mitochondria start becoming less efficient and the that change starts to happen?

SPEAKER_01 12:18

Yeah, this is where things get really interesting. When mitochondria are functioning well, they produce energy efficiently. But when they become overwhelmed or dysfunctional, several things start happening. Energy production declines, oxidative stress rises, inflammation increases, metabolic flexibility worsens, and eventually people start experiencing fatigue, brain fog, poor recovery, exercise intolerance. They have cravings. We have weight gain. And of course, you have worsening insulin resistance.

SPEAKER_00 12:47

The body starts becoming metabolically fragile. Is that the right way to kind of think about it?

SPEAKER_01 12:52

Exactly. Yeah. That's a great way to describe it. The system loses adaptability. And one of the strange contradictions in modern health is that many people are energy overloaded while feeling exhausted all the time.

SPEAKER_00 13:06

That sounds kind of like a contradiction, though, right? So people are consuming more calories than ever, but they're feeling less energetic than ever at the same time.

SPEAKER_01 13:15

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And you know, part of the issue is that calories alone don't equal usable energy. Mitochondria determine how efficiently that energy is processed and utilized. So someone can be consuming enormous amounts of food while still having poor cellular energy production.

SPEAKER_00 13:34

That honestly kind of sounds like it reframes metabolism.

SPEAKER_01 13:38

Yeah, because I mean, you know, metabolism is not simply about calories, it's about energy transformation. And mitochondria sit right in the center of that process.

SPEAKER_00 13:48

And I think that with modern culture, it also confuses stimulation with energy.

SPEAKER_01 13:54

Oh, all the time. Yeah. Caffeine is stimulation. Stress hormones are stimulation. Sugar spikes can feel stimulating temporarily, but stimulation is not the same thing as resilient energy production. So someone can feel wired and exhausted simultaneously. And honestly, that describes modern life for a lot of people.

SPEAKER_00 14:15

Absolutely. I think that that even reminds me of being wired and tired, or that that's saying as well. And I think that what you said as well, that line is definitely going to hit people and really resonate.

SPEAKER_01 14:26

Yeah, I mean, because they're they're living it. People are tired but can't relax, exhausted but can't sleep, overstimulated but underpowered. And the nervous system never fully powers down. And eventually the body starts prioritizing short-term survival over long-term optimization.

SPEAKER_00 14:44

Overstimulated but underpowered. That's that's definitely gonna stick with me for sure. And I think that when people say, maybe like I don't feel like myself anymore, I'm sure that that's something you hear all the time. I know I hear that as well. That might actually be a mitochondrial conversation, then, right?

SPEAKER_01 15:01

So I always say that body usually whispers before it screams. And mitochondrial dysfunction may be one of the earliest physiologic warning signs that the system is losing resilience.

SPEAKER_00 15:12

And I know, so I've heard you use the phrase before of metabolic flexibility. So when you say metabolic flexibility, I think most people listening probably have really never heard that term before. So what does that actually mean?

SPEAKER_01 15:26

Yeah, metabolic flexibility is another one of my favorite terms. So it's basically the body's ability to efficiently switch between fuel sources depending on demand. You know, humans are designed to use both carbohydrates and fat effectively. That adaptability is incredibly important. So historically, humans experienced periods of feeding, periods of fasting, movement, scarcity, higher exertion, recovery. The body became very good at accessing different fuel systems efficiently. But many modern humans have become metabolically trapped.

SPEAKER_00 16:03

It's so wild to think about what your body's doing when you're not even aware of it from a non-like provider standpoint. But when you say trapped, what do you mean by trapped?

SPEAKER_01 16:14

The body loses efficiency at accessing stored fat for energy and becomes heavily dependent on constant incoming carbohydrates and frequent eating. So people start experiencing energy crashes, constant craving, brain fog, poor endurance, post-meal fatigue, and needing caffeine constantly. They're feeling shaky if they don't eat every few hours. And culturally, we have normalized this. You know, people joke if I don't eat every two hours, I become a different person. Biologically, that's often a sign that the system has lost that flexibility.

SPEAKER_00 16:49

That is super interesting because people do kind of think about that as personality. I'm hangry, for example. People say that all the time. But that's actually fascinating because people think that it's really just personality.

SPEAKER_01 17:01

Yeah, exactly. I mean, but physiologically, the body should be able to access stored energy relatively efficiently. Most humans are carrying enormous amounts of stored energy as fat. And the irony is that as many people are simultaneously energy overloaded, they're feeling like they're constantly running out of fuel.

SPEAKER_00 17:21

That sounds like a pretty strange contradiction.

SPEAKER_01 17:25

Yeah, this is where insulin becomes really important. So when people are constantly consuming ultra-processed foods and refined carbohydrates, insulin levels stay elevated much of the time. And insulin is fundamentally a storage hormone. Chronically elevated insulin suppresses fat oxidation or fat burning. So over time, the body becomes increasingly dependent on glucose and less efficient at burning fat.

SPEAKER_00 17:51

And why do you think that that is a problem biologically? Or why is that a problem biologically?

SPEAKER_01 17:58

Well, because carbohydrate storage is relatively limited. We store a modest amount of glucose in the form of glycogen in the liver and the muscles. Fat storage, on the other hand, is massive. So when someone loses the ability to efficiently excess fat stores, energy becomes unstable. They become metabolically dependent on constant refueling. And that contributes to the cravings and to the fatigue and to the energy volatility. It contributes to overeating. Of course, you get worsening insulin resistance and eventually worsening mitochondrial efficiency.

SPEAKER_00 18:34

So then this isn't just really about body weight.

SPEAKER_01 18:37

Not even close. This is fundamentally an energy regulation problem. And the scary part is that metabolic inflexibility affects almost everything. Energy, it affects recovery, exercise tolerance, body composition, your cognition, inflammation, and long-term disease risk. And the body becomes metabolically fragile.

SPEAKER_00 19:00

And then mitochondria are right in the center of all of us.

SPEAKER_01 19:04

Yeah, exactly. Mitochondria are central to fuel utilization and energy efficiency. So healthy mitochondria are highly adaptable. They can efficiently process fats and carbohydrates depending on physiologic demand. But when mitochondria become dysfunctional, that flexibility starts disappearing. The system becomes less resilient.

SPEAKER_00 19:26

And then is this where modern food environments really become problematic?

SPEAKER_01 19:31

Hugely problematic. Modern ultra-processed foods are engineered for reward, for dopamine reward, not for physiology. They combine refined carbohydrates, unhealthy fats, excess sodium, hyperpalatability, and dopamine stimulation in ways human biology was never designed for. So people get trapped in the cycle of glucose spikes and energy crashes and cravings and repeat consumption. And over time the mitochondria just become totally overwhelmed.

SPEAKER_00 20:01

And I think we should think about food as fuel in that sense, but it sounds like someone can actually technically be overfed but underpowered.

SPEAKER_01 20:09

Yeah. Spot on. That may honestly describe modern metabolic health better than almost anything else. Overfed but underpowered. I like that term.

SPEAKER_00 20:19

Yeah, that's that's a good one. And so this is why I think also exercise becomes so important, right?

SPEAKER_01 20:25

Absolutely. Movement restores metabolic flexibility. I mean, we with in previous episodes we talked about the different forms of exercise, zone two, zone four, zone five. Zone two itself is really important, zone two training, and that's where the heart rate is pretty much at 60 to 70% of your max heart rate. We know that zone two improves mitochondrial efficiency and fat oxidation or that fat burning. Um we know resistance training improves glucose disposal, and then that zone four, zone five, or the higher intensity exercise improves metabolic adaptability and VO2 max. So exercise is literally retraining the body to become more metabolically resilient.

SPEAKER_00 21:06

So metabolic flexibility is really physiological resilience.

SPEAKER_01 21:11

Yeah, exactly. You got it. The more adaptable your metabolism becomes, the more stable energy and resilience people tend to feel. And honestly, that's what most people are really looking or searching for. Not just weight loss. They want stable energy, they want clear thinking, they want better recovery, better mood, and the the ability to feel alive again.

SPEAKER_00 21:31

Absolutely. And I think that this also really changes how people think about exercise as well, because most people really think exercise is mainly about burning calories, losing weight, or especially aesthetics as well. But you talk about exercise almost like it's a biological language, almost.

SPEAKER_01 21:48

That's exactly how I think about it. Exercise is one of the most powerful signaling events in the in human biology. It's not just about movement, it's information. Every time you exercise, Exercise, your body is interpreting a message. What environment do I need to prepare for?

SPEAKER_00 22:05

And mitochondria are essentially listening to that message, right?

SPEAKER_01 22:09

You're right. They're constantly listening. Exercise creates an energy demand, and mitochondria responds to that demand. That's one of the most important concepts in physiology. The body adapts to challenge. So when you exercise consistently, especially anaerobically, the body starts realizing: hey, we need greater energy production. We need greater capacity. So it adapts. More mitochondria, you get stronger mitochondria, you get better oxygen utilization, and you get better fuel efficiency. You also get greater of that metabolic flexibility. Exercise literally teaches mitochondria to become more capable.

SPEAKER_00 22:49

And that's such a different framing than I need to burn off dinner. I need to work out to burn off dinner and, you know, think about aesthetics and things like that.

SPEAKER_01 22:57

Yeah, I mean, totally. I mean, I think that the calorie model of exercise has damaged people's relationship with movement. Because exercise is so much more, it's so much bigger than calorie burning. I mean movement influences mitochondria. It helps with insulin sensitivity, brain health, inflammation, mood recovery, cardiovascular health, and aging itself. The body expects movement. Human biology was built around movement.

SPEAKER_00 23:26

Absolutely. And I think the opposite is also true as well.

SPEAKER_01 23:29

Yeah, absolutely. So sedentary behavior tells the body that capacity is no longer necessary. And biology is extremely efficient. The body doesn't maintain metabolically expensive systems if it no longer believes that they are needed. So muscle is metabolically expensive. Mitochondria are metabolically expensive. Cardiovascular fitness is metabolically expensive. If we stop demanding adaptation, the body gradually removes that capacity.

SPEAKER_00 24:00

That honestly explains aging in a way I really have never thought about before, but it makes a ton of sense.

unknown 24:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:06

I mean, because much of what we call aging is actually declining physiologic reserve. I mean, you have reduced VO2 max, reduced mitochondrial density, loss of muscle, reduced insulin sensitivity, and reduced metabolic flexibility. Exercise pushes back against all of that.

SPEAKER_00 24:24

And different forms of exercise can create different mitochondrial adaptations. Is that true?

SPEAKER_01 24:30

Exactly. This is why I like separating exercise into three major buckets: resistance training, zone two aerobic training, and higher intensity zone four, zone five training. All three matter for longevity, but they train different physiologic systems.

SPEAKER_00 24:47

Okay, so let's break that down because I think a lot of people will hear, for example, cardio and immediately think suffering. I'm probably one of those people as well.

SPEAKER_01 24:58

Yeah, totally. You're right. People do actually they they think of suffering or of being uncomfortable. You know, zone two is really not that difficult. I mean, it it's a it's a lower aerobic work where you can maintain a conversation, but not effortlessly chatting, but you can still talk. And zone two may be one of the best forms of mitochondrial training we have.

SPEAKER_00 25:20

And that's why everyone in longevity seems obsessed with zone two right now. Because I've been hearing about that a little bit lately.

SPEAKER_01 25:27

Yeah, I mean, zone two is where we're really training the mitochondria. I meant it really aids with aerobic metabolism and fat oxidation. In at zone two, or that 60 to 70% of your max heart rate, the mitochondria are learning to process oxygen and fuel more efficiently. So over time, zone two improves mitochondrial density, fat oxidation, metabolic flexibility, cardiac efficiency, capillary density, endurance capacity. Zone two is basically building the engine.

SPEAKER_00 25:59

Interesting. So that's about zone two. So then zone five, is that completely different?

SPEAKER_01 26:04

Yeah, zone four or five is where you're at 80 to 90% of your max heart rate or higher. And so this is where, of course, breathing, breathing becomes a little more difficult and the exercise itself is a little more intensive. It's hard to maintain a conversation at this range of activity. And then this is where people start to kind of feel the soreness because lactic acid actually accumulates pretty rapidly. But this type of training improves VO2 max and it helps with cardiac output. It helps with lactate tolerance and it builds physiologic capacity. And then zone two, which is one of the strongest predictors of longevity, is also greatly increased with this type of training.

SPEAKER_00 26:47

That's still wild to really think about. It's wild to me.

SPEAKER_01 26:51

Yeah, it's fascinating. VO2 max essentially reflects how efficient the heart, the lungs, blood vessels, and your mitochondria can deliver and utilize oxygen during exertion. It's a measurement of physiologic capacity. And low cardiorespiratory fitness or a low VO2 max is associated with dramatically higher mortality risk.

SPEAKER_00 27:13

So zone two builds the engine, but zone five tests the ceiling?

SPEAKER_01 27:18

Exactly. Perfectly said. One improves efficiency and one preserves peak capacity, and you need both.

SPEAKER_00 27:25

And with all of this being said, where does resistance training fit into this?

SPEAKER_01 27:29

It's really important. And you know, go back, all three are equally important. But resistance training may be one of the most important longevity interventions we have because muscle is deeply connected to mitochondrial health. Healthy muscle is loaded with mitochondria. Muscles act like a metabolic machinery. The more metabolically active tissue we preserve, the greater our ability to regulate glucose, maintain energy stability, preserve insulin sensitivity, and maintain physiologic resilience.

SPEAKER_00 28:01

So muscle is definitely much more than just aesthetics.

SPEAKER_01 28:05

Oh, profoundly more. I mean, muscle is one of the major protective organs of longevity. And one of the biggest problems in modern health is that people are overfed while progressively under muscle.

SPEAKER_00 28:17

And I know that you say this phrase that I've heard you say a few times: muscle is the organ of longevity. And I think most people still hear muscle and think appearance, fitness culture, athletic, but you're talking about something that's much deeper biologically.

SPEAKER_01 28:33

Definitely, it's a different conversation. Muscle is not just cosmetic tissue. Muscle is metabolically active. It's hormonal, it's immunologic, it's neurologic. In many ways, muscle is one of the major engines of resilience in the human body.

SPEAKER_00 28:49

And now that I've learned today, it sounds like it's also deeply connected to mitochondria as well.

SPEAKER_01 28:54

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, healthy muscle is loaded with mitochondria, and especially in trained individuals. One of the reasons exercise improves metabolic health so profoundly is because exercise is improving mitochondrial function inside the skeletal muscle. And the skeletal muscle is one of the body's largest sites of glucose disposal. Healthy muscle acts like a metabolic sponge. It helps absorb glucose out of the circulation and improves insulin sensitivity. So when people lose muscle, everything tends to become less metabolically stable. Glucose regulation worsens, insulin resistance worsens, metabolic flexibility worsens, mitochondria efficiency worsens. And unfortunately, many adults begin losing meaningful muscle surprisingly early in life.

SPEAKER_00 29:41

Absolutely. And I'm sure that that's happening more and more so now than before as well. And I think that that's also something that most people tend to really underestimate.

SPEAKER_01 29:50

Hugely underestimate because culturally we've become obsessed with body weight instead of body composition. But weight alone does not tell us, doesn't really tell us much. But body weight alone tells us almost nothing. Two people can weigh exactly the same while having dramatically different metabolic health depending on muscle mass, visceral fat. That's the fat that is around your organs, cardiorespiratory fitness, and mitochondrial function.

SPEAKER_00 30:18

And I think that, like you said, also I think people can technically look normal, whatever normal may mean, but look normal or thin or whatever it is, but be completely metabolically struggling.

SPEAKER_01 30:31

All the time. I mean, someone can appear relatively healthy externally and while internally they're they have insulin resistance, they have mitochondrial efficiency declining, they have visceral fat increasing, they have muscle mass declining, and their physiologic reserve is shrinking.

SPEAKER_00 30:49

Aaron Powell Physiologic reserve. So that's something you say pretty frequently that a lot of people haven't heard.

SPEAKER_01 30:56

And what what exactly Yeah, no, physiologic reserve is is incredibly important. It's basically the body's ability to tolerate stress or to tolerate injury or illness, to tolerate inflammation, or you know, if you're hospitalized, it also helps with aging itself. The muscle is one of the major contributors to that physiologic reserve.

SPEAKER_00 31:18

So it sounds like also muscle is also protective.

SPEAKER_01 31:22

Profoundly protective. Um and what's fascinating is that muscle behaves almost like an endocrine organ. When muscle contracts during exercise, it releases signaling molecules called myokines. These myokines communicate with the brain, they communicate with the immune system, helps regulate your metabolism, and it communicates with the inflammation system or pathways. So exercise literally changes chemistry throughout your body.

SPEAKER_00 31:48

Interesting. I mean, that's incredible and really shocking. Since if you don't know about any of that, the way the way I'm thinking about things is completely shifting.

SPEAKER_01 31:58

It really is. I mean it's some of these signaling molecules appear to be also neuroprotective. So exercise and muscle contraction can stimulate factors that involve with brain health, with your cognition, with neuroplasticity, or the brain's ability to repair itself. And they also help with mood regulation. And you know, this explains why movement improves not just physical health, but mental health as well. There's a famous podcaster out, Rich Roll, and his famous quote is mood follows motion.

SPEAKER_00 32:31

I like that. That's a that's a that's a good quote for sure. And so when people stop moving, it's not neutral.

SPEAKER_01 32:37

Exactly. Inacity is not neutral biology. When movement disappears, you have a decrease in mitochondrial density, you have worsening of your insulin sensitivity, you have metabolic flexibility that worsens, you have cardiorespiratory fitness that that declines. And also your, like we stated earlier, you get loss of muscle mass. And typically, when all of these is occurring, inflammation increases and the body just becomes less resilient.

SPEAKER_00 33:05

And I think culturally we have kind of normalized that decline as well.

SPEAKER_01 33:11

We have and we do. People assume that, you know, becoming weaker or slower or frailer or more fatigue is just inevitable aging. But biologically, much of what we call aging is actually accumulated deconditioning. The body adapts downward when demand disappears.

SPEAKER_00 33:29

That's definitely powerful. I think that's that's such a powerful concept or idea.

SPEAKER_01 33:33

Yeah, and the opposite is also true of, like we mentioned earlier. When you continue challenging the body intelligently, adaptation continues. So the opposite is also true. When we continue challenging the body intellectually, adaptation continues remarkably late into life. People can improve their muscle mass, their VO2 max, their mitochondrial function, their strength, their insulin sensitivity, and metabolic flexibility. And their metabolic health can improve much later in individuals' lives than people truly realize. And hopefully that's incredibly helpful.

SPEAKER_00 34:08

Yeah, absolutely. And I think that that's also what people really want, right? Not just living longer, but staying capable. That you can live to be older, but not have that good quality of life. People want to remain capable.

SPEAKER_01 34:22

Yeah, I mean, that's, you know, really what healthspan is, is you know, living free of chronic disease or disability. Longevity is not really about how long you live. It's about how long you can actually move well or think clearly or recover or remain independent, how long you can travel or play with your kids or your grandkids, or how you truly can be participating fully in life. Mitochondria are deeply connected to that entire conversation.

SPEAKER_00 34:52

And I think one thing that's also really fascinating in longevity medicine is how many people are told, and we've talked about this before, for example, are how your labs are normal, but meanwhile, they feel exhausted, foggy, inflamed, underrecovered, and metabolically unhealthy. So I think also a lot of uh listeners probably relate to that feeling. I mean, I can relate to that feeling for sure of, for example, something feels off, but I keep getting told that everything looks fine. My doctor said my labs are normal.

SPEAKER_01 35:20

Yeah, I mean, you know, that's one of the biggest disconnects in modern healthcare. Many people know something is changing in their body long before disease officially appears. You know, they complain of fatigue, their energy is declining, recovery is harder, sleep worsens, body composition changes, the exercise tolerance decreases, they have brain fog. Um, but a lot of times they're told, you know, when they go in for their labs or their evaluation, everything looks normal.

SPEAKER_00 35:48

And the issue is partly, I think, how we define it.

SPEAKER_01 35:51

In my clinic, you know, of course, when you're reviewing labs, you'll see that there is a reference range, and that's pretty much based on, you know, the average population and a couple standard deviations. And I tell people or I tell our patients that we're we're looking at optimization. We're not looking at normal, because normal is just part of the of the common population. And our population, uh sad to say, you know, there's a belief that only about 90 or only about 6% of our of our population is metabolically healthy. So that's, you know, that's 94% that are not metabolically healthy. Um so yeah, you don't want to compare yourself to that population. And we, like I said, our our practice in our clinic is really about life optimization.

SPEAKER_00 36:40

And that's actually such an important distinction as well.

SPEAKER_01 36:43

Yeah, you're right. I mean, normal doesn't represent healthy physiology at all sometimes. It's really about having the optimal numbers. And, you know, many of these metabolic and mitochondrial changes develop silently for years. The body compensates remarkably well for a long period of time. And that's one of the fascinating things about human physiology. The body is constantly trying to maintain stability despite increasingly unhealthy inputs.

SPEAKER_00 37:11

So dysfunction can be progressing quietly in the background.

SPEAKER_01 37:15

Exactly, yeah. Take insulin resistance, for example. That's one we've talked about in a previous podcast. Someone can maintain relatively normal glucose levels for years while insulin levels are progressively rising behind the scenes. The pancreas is simply just pushing out more insulin. And so your body is compensating in a way. But during that time, you know, your mitochondria are becoming less efficient. Uh, metabolic flexibility is worsening, you're getting increase in visceral fat, inflammation is increasing. And typically people do have symptoms such as fatigue or that brain fog that we mentioned earlier. So by the time glucose finally becomes abnormal, then the dysfunction has already been developing for years or even decades. And this is why I think modern medicine often catches disease relatively late in the process. Once again, the body whispers long before it screams.

SPEAKER_00 38:09

I think that's a key line in this episode, too. So that phrase keeps coming up over and over.

SPEAKER_01 38:14

Yeah, because it's true. I mean that the body usually gives very subtle signals first: fatigue, poor recovery, brain fall, cravings, reduced insulin tolerance, worsening sleep, increase in visceral fat, loss of muscle mass. But because these changes happen gradually, people really normalize them.

SPEAKER_00 38:34

And I think you've also used the analogy before of the lights slowly dimming.

SPEAKER_01 38:38

Exactly. So if you think about it, if the lights suddenly turned off, you would panic. But if they slowly dim over years, people become psychologically adapted. They start saying that I'm just getting older or I'm busy, or I guess this is part of aging. Meanwhile, physiologically, the system is becoming less resilient.

SPEAKER_00 38:56

And mitochondria are deeply involved in that decline.

SPEAKER_01 39:00

Hugely involved. Because mitochondria sit at the center of energy production and adaptation. When mitochondrial function declines, energy production becomes less efficient, oxidative stress increases, recovery worsens, metabolic flexibility declines, and inflammation often rises. The body becomes biologically less adaptable.

SPEAKER_00 39:20

And so is this why objective testing can become so valuable or it is so valuable?

SPEAKER_01 39:26

Absolutely. I mean, I love I love data. Data creates awareness. You can't change what you don't know. So things we use are like VO2 max testing, which can reveal a decline in cardiorespiratory fitness. We measure body composition, which can reveal muscle loss or visceral fat accumulation. Metabolic testing can reveal impaired fuel utilization, meaning if you're primarily a carbohydrate burner versus, you know, switching back and forth between fat and carbohydrates. Continuous glucose monitors are really popular. They help people actually realize how they truly respond to food. And a lot of people are unaware of how food actually affects their insulin and glucose levels.

SPEAKER_00 40:09

And I think that that's what's so interesting. And I think that that's also what makes longevity medicine different, because I think it sounds like it's asking a much different question.

SPEAKER_01 40:18

So I think traditional medicine often asks, does this person have a disease yet? Where longevity medicine is truly asking, how efficiently is the human body functioning? And those are completely different lens. Um, because the goal is not merely avoiding death. The goal is preserving vitality, resilience, and physiologic reserve for as long as possible.

SPEAKER_00 40:41

And honestly, I think that that's what people are really searching for at the end of the day. It's not just about lifespan, but it's about feeling alive longer.

SPEAKER_01 40:48

Yeah, exactly. It's not about longevity, although we use that term. It's about how long they can have stable energy, clear thought, better recovery, resilience, independence, and strength, and the ability to fully participate in life. That's the real conversation. And as we mentioned before, mitochondria are deeply connected to all of that.

SPEAKER_00 41:11

When it comes to sleep, I think that people massively underestimate sleep. And going back to modern culture, I think modern culture has also treated sleep like a weakness. Like if you were sleeping enough, somehow you weren't working hard enough. And that's a big part of, I think, culturally what we've learned and and heard.

SPEAKER_01 41:28

No, I meant totally. I mean, I was part of it. I meant, you know, I I used to have a saying that sleep is for the dead. Um, but you know, we're we're getting smarter. People for years previously bragged about sleep deprivation, like, hey, I only slept four hours, I'm grinding, yeah. I'll sleep when I'm dead. Meanwhile, biologically, the body is falling apart.

SPEAKER_00 41:48

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Thinking about even college, that that's I'm grinding, yeah. I only slept four hours and I have to go do this and do that, and I'm fine. But I think one thing that is is good a little bit, I think, in in culture now is shifting slightly. But I think it's a slight shift, but I do think that there's some shift. And I think that people seem much more aware now about sleep and how sleep actually does matter and how important it really is.

SPEAKER_01 42:14

I totally agree. I mean, I think you know, society has finally started to realize that sleep is not really being lazy. Sleep is biology. I think people are are recognizing how terrible they feel when sleep is consist consistently disrupted. Because eventually, no amount of caffeine, no amount of motivation or discipline fully compensates for chronic poor recovery.

SPEAKER_00 42:37

Absolutely. And I think what's interesting with that is that people still tend to think of sleep as something that's passive. Like the body just shuts off for a few hours, but I know it's a lot more than that.

SPEAKER_01 42:47

Yeah, and I mean, in reality, sleep is one of the most metabolically active periods of recovery in human physiology. Sleep is not passive downtime, sleep is active biologic repair.

SPEAKER_00 42:59

And mitochondria are heavily involved in that recovery too, correct?

SPEAKER_01 43:03

Hugely involved. During the day, the body is consistently or constantly producing energy. It's responding to stress, it's processing nutrients, it's adapting to environmental demands. And that naturally, all of those processes naturally generate metabolic byproducts and oxidative stress. Sleep is one of the major periods where mitochondrial repair and recalibration occur.

SPEAKER_00 43:26

So when people chronically undersleep, what happens?

SPEAKER_01 43:30

So I mean the system never fully recovers. And eventually you start seeing worsening insulin resistance, higher inflammation, poorer glucose regulation, worsening recovery, increased cravings, you get higher cortisol levels, you get reduced testosterone and growth hormone signaling, and you get worsening mitochondrial efficiency.

SPEAKER_00 43:50

So it sounds like the body basically just becomes less resilient across the board.

SPEAKER_01 43:55

True, exactly. And so what's fascinating is how quickly sleep deprivation affects metabolity. Metabolism. Even relatively short periods of poor sleep can measurably worsen insulin sensitivity. And people notice this too. After poor sleep, they crave more sugar, they feel hungrier, they recover worse, they feel emotionally reactive and they think less clearly. So, and you know, that's not weakness. That's just our physiology.

SPEAKER_00 44:21

And I think modern life seems almost perfectly designed to disrupt sleep as well.

SPEAKER_01 44:26

Yeah, unfortunately. Yeah. Um, humans evolved around natural circadian rhythms. We have morning sunlight, which signal wakefulness, darkness signals melatonin release and recovery biology. Now, many people wake up to artificial light, we stay indoors all day, we stare at screens late into the evening, we consume caffeine too late, we remain psychologically stimulated constantly, and we never fully downshift neurologically.

SPEAKER_00 44:55

So it sounds like people are exhausted but still can't sleep. I know that that's true for a lot of people.

SPEAKER_01 45:00

Exactly. The nervous system becomes dysregulated. People become tired and hyperstimulated. And over time, mitochondria are constantly operating under stress conditions without adequate recovery.

SPEAKER_00 45:14

I think that also just sounds like modern civilization in one sentence, pretty much.

SPEAKER_01 45:19

It really does. And one of the biggest misconceptions is thinking we can supplement poor recovery. Um, you know, people are taking caffeine or pneotropics or peptides or stimulants or they have these certain hacks. Meanwhile, the biology is often just asking for restoration.

SPEAKER_00 45:36

That's a good line. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 45:38

But it's true. I mean, recovery, I mean, as we mentioned earlier, it's it's not about being lazy. Recovery is where adaptation actually happens. Exercise creates stress. Sleep creates adaptation. Without recovery, stress simply accumulates.

SPEAKER_00 45:55

And I think that that also applies beyond exercise too.

SPEAKER_01 45:59

Absolutely. I mean, humans evolved around oscillation. I mean, we have stress and recovery, we have effort and restoration, we have movement and stillness. Modern life has become constant stimulation, constant information, constant dopamine, constant psychological activation. And biologically, the body was never designed for perpetual activation.

SPEAKER_00 46:22

Absolutely. And so mitochondria are constantly just responding to that environment, too.

SPEAKER_01 46:27

Yeah, every second. You know, that's what's so fascinating. Mitochondria are continuously interpreting light exposure. They're interpreting stress hormones or movement or nutrition or sleep quality or recovery state. They're constantly adapting to the signals we provide. And I think one of the most important lessons in longevity medicine is realizing that you cannot separate lifestyle from cellular biology. They're pretty much the same conversation.

SPEAKER_00 46:55

And I think that people can also feel that intuitively, and they know they can feel that they're depleted.

SPEAKER_01 47:01

Absolutely. I mean, many people have normalized depletion for so long that they've forgotten what healthy energy actually feels like, not stimulation, not adrenaline, not caffeine. Real biologic energy, stable energy, clear thinking, resilience, recovery capacity. That's what mitochondria express hourly.

SPEAKER_00 47:21

And I think that one thing I keep thinking over and over with this conversation is that a lot of people don't necessarily feel sick, but they also don't feel well. And I think that that's something that's been very normalized, especially in our culture. But they feel maybe older than they should, or more fragile than they should, or more tired than they should. And I think that it's super common that people just associate that feeling with their aging or assume that it's just aging and getting older.

SPEAKER_01 47:48

I think one of the biggest misconceptions in in modern health is that aging and dysfunction are automatically the same thing. They're not. Aging is inevitable. Accelerated physiologic decline is often heavily influenced by environment and influenced by behavior.

SPEAKER_00 48:08

And so when people say, I just don't feel like myself anymore, that sounds like it may actually be biology changing underneath the surface.

SPEAKER_01 48:16

Very often, yeah. The difficult part is that these changes usually happen gradually. As we mentioned before, mitochondrial efficiency slowly declines, muscle mass slowly declines, VO2 max slowly declines, metabolic flexibility worsens, inflammation rises, and recovery worsens, and the body becomes less adaptable.

SPEAKER_00 48:36

And adaptability, I feel like it really seems to be the theme of this whole episode.

SPEAKER_01 48:41

Yeah, because health is adaptability. That's one of the most important concepts in longevity medicine. Healthy systems adapt well. Healthy mitochondria adapt well. Healthy metabolism adapts well. Healthy nervous systems also adapt well. Disease and aging often involve progressive loss of adaptability.

SPEAKER_00 49:01

And I think that that's such an interesting way to really not only think about health, but to define health.

SPEAKER_01 49:06

I think it reframes aging completely because many people think aging is about wrinkles or appearance, but biologically, aging is often just the loss of resilience, the loss of energy efficiency, the loss of recovery capacity. And that term we used previously, the loss of physiologic reserve.

SPEAKER_00 49:26

Absolutely. And mitochondria are just sitting right in the center, the center of all of that.

SPEAKER_01 49:30

Yeah, mitochondria, I meant hugely there at the center. One of the hallmarks of aging is mitochondrial dysfunction. As mitochondria become less efficient, we have that decrease in ATP production, we get an increase in oxidative stress, we get an increase in inflammation, metabolic flexibility worsens, and cellular repair becomes less efficient. So eventually the entire system becomes more fragile.

SPEAKER_00 49:55

And so is this where, let's say, chronic disease really starts to enter the picture?

SPEAKER_01 50:00

Yeah, exactly. What's fascinating is that many chronic diseases share similar metabolic and mitochondrial roots. Insulin resistance or cardiovascular disease, neurodegeneration, sarcopenia or muscle loss, they're all involved in some combination of mitochondrial dysfunction, metabolic dysregulation, inflammation, and reduced physiologic resilience.

SPEAKER_00 50:23

So the body starts to essentially start to lose reserve.

SPEAKER_01 50:27

The reserve is incredibly important. When you're younger and healthier, the body compensates remarkably well. You can tolerate poor sleep and stress and overeating. But as people are aware, as you get older, that that reserve starts to narrow. And eventually people start feeling like, you know, why do I feel exhausted all the time? Why am I tired? Why can't I recover? Why do I feel like I got older overnight? But biologically, those changes were were usually developing quietly for years.

SPEAKER_00 51:02

Absolutely. And I feel like that's one of another key takeaway from this episode, or one of the biggest messages is that the body whispers before it screams, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 51:09

Absolutely. Absolutely. I I think modern modern culture teaches people to disconnect from those whispers. We have more caffeine or more stimulation. We push harder. We ignore the signals. Meanwhile, the biology continues adapting underneath the surface.

SPEAKER_00 51:25

And I think eventually then the body starts to force the conversation.

SPEAKER_01 51:29

Exactly. Yeah. I think one of the most powerful realizations in longevity medicine is understanding that the body is not trying to fail you. It's not. The body is adapting to the environment it's experiencing. And that's an incredibly important distinction. Metabolism is not, you know, your metabolism is not broken. Your mitochondria aren't lazy. Your biology is adaptive.

SPEAKER_00 51:53

And I think that that's a very good outlook, especially if people are feeling a little discouraged or not feeling like themselves, but it's honestly a very hopeful perspective.

SPEAKER_01 52:01

You're right. It is hopeful because it means that physiology can often improve dramatically when the signals improve. Movement improves mitochondria. Sleep improves mitochondria. Resistance training improves metabolic health. Zone two improves metabolic or mitochondrial efficiency. And recovery improves resilience. The body wants to move toward health when given the opportunity.

SPEAKER_00 52:25

Absolutely. And that's essentially what we said earlier as well. That's what people really want is not just to live longer, but to be capable as long as possible.

SPEAKER_01 52:32

Yeah. I mean, it's redundant, but you know, people want stable energy. They want clarity. They want strength. They want resilience. They want independence. And they want the ability to fully participate in life. And that's truly what healthspan is. And you know, as we mentioned before, might our mighty country are deeply connected to that entire conversation.

SPEAKER_00 52:51

Absolutely. And I'm sure a lot of people listening right now, including myself, in the middle of this conversation, are probably having the realization of, okay, maybe I'm not just lazy or I'm not just getting old. But then the next thought is, where do I start? Right. So just because modern wellness culture is overwhelming, you know, cold plunges, red light therapy, peptides, supplements, wearables, biohacking, there's so much, right? So if someone does want to improve their mitochondrial health and actually feel better, what do you think matters the most?

SPEAKER_01 53:24

Well, you know, I think modern health culture sometimes overcomplicates biology. You know, people start believing that they need like the certain supplement or they need these expensive gadgets or some extreme protocol. You know, a lot of times people don't want to hear, but basically they need to establish a foundation of physiology.

SPEAKER_00 53:46

That's a good point. I think that it it does seem overcomplicated when it could be a lot more simplified.

SPEAKER_01 53:52

And you know, and the irony is that foundational things are often the most powerful mitochondrial interventions we have. They're just not flashy.

SPEAKER_00 54:02

So, with all that being said, where does one start?

SPEAKER_01 54:06

All right. Like I said, it's not it's not flashy, it's not sexy, but movement. Almost always movement. Because, you know, movement is one of the strongest physiologic signals that we can send to the mitochondria. Walking matters, zone two matters, resistance training matters. The body expects movement. And when people start moving consistently, mitochondria start adapting remarkably quickly.

SPEAKER_00 54:32

And that's and that's actually really hopeful because I think that going back to things being overcomplicated, people tend to think that they need some perfect plan to really get started.

SPEAKER_01 54:41

Consistency matters far more than perfection. And that's one of the biggest misconceptions in health optimization. You know, the body responds to repeated signals, not occasional extremes.

SPEAKER_00 54:53

And I think that that's also probably why the simple things are underestimated. They seem too simple. For example, walking. People probably don't think about that in terms of important movement because it almost seems too simple.

SPEAKER_01 55:05

Exactly. I mean, walking is truly underestimated. I mean, it improves our glucose regulation, it improves mitochondrial signaling, it improves circulation, it improves stress regulation, it improves metabolic flexibility, and it aids with recovery. You know, humans are designed to move throughout the day, but we've unfortunately have built a world where people barely move, and then they try to compensate with an intense workout.

SPEAKER_00 55:33

Absolutely. Yeah, that's that's so true. 100%. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 55:36

And then resistance training becomes incredibly important because muscle is deeply connected to mitochondrial health. Healthy muscle acts like metabolic infrastructure. The more muscle mass we have, the greater our ability to regulate glucose, maintain metabolic flexibility, and preserve resilience.

SPEAKER_00 55:54

And then obviously sleep matters too. It's a big, a big part of it as well. That's underestimated.

SPEAKER_01 56:00

Yeah, sleep is one of the major periods where mitochondrial repair and recalibration occur. You cannot fully out-supplement chronically poor recovery.

SPEAKER_00 56:09

And nutrition as well.

SPEAKER_01 56:11

Yeah, nutrition becomes confusing because people reduce it to an ideology instead of physiology. For me, the major principles are more whole foods, less ultra-processed food. We need better metabolic flexibility, better nutrient density, less chronic metabolic overload. Because eventually the mitochondria become overwhelmed by chronic excess and poor signaling.

SPEAKER_00 56:34

So let's talk about another thing that I think a lot of people are talking about lately is peptides, because I think that people are hearing that word constantly, all the time.

SPEAKER_01 56:44

Yeah, I mean peptides, NAD, regenerative medicine, mitochondrial supplements. I I really this is a major part of our practice. I mean, I think it's a really fascinating area of medicine. Because I mean, we're moving into a period where we're learning more about cellular signaling and about repair biology and inflammation and mitochondrial function and regeneration. And some of these therapies are genuinely exciting.

SPEAKER_00 57:12

And talking about peptides, different peptides do different things.

SPEAKER_01 57:16

Yeah, peptides are really popular now. Like I said, it's a major part of our practice. Peptides are essentially just short chains of amino acids that act as signaling molecules in the body. Uh, and what's fascinating is that many peptides are mimicking or enhancing biologic communication pathways that already exist naturally. So instead of simply forcing physiology, many peptides are helping regulate signaling.

SPEAKER_00 57:42

Aaron Powell Is this kind of where longevity medicine starts sounding like science fiction to some people?

SPEAKER_01 57:48

So peptides, we like to think of once again that they're communicating. And so they do different things. They do tissue repair, they do recovery, they can signal growth hormone, they can improve sleep, they can improve cognition, they can regulate or modulate your immune system. They also help with body composition and also with mitochondrial function. For example, PBC 157 and TB500, often called the wolverine blend, they actually aid in tissue repair and recovery. C is really popular because it actually is a mitochondrial-derived peptide. It's heavily connected with metabolic signaling and exercise adaptation. SS31 has been studied for mitochondrial membrane protection and mitochondrial efficiency. NAD is not a peptide, it's a cofactor, but typically it gets lumped in with peptides. It's really great because these actually, or NAD and some of its related therapies like NMR or NR, are related to or aid in cellular energy production and mitochondrial metabolism. So, and then you have a bunch of peptides or compounds that help with autophagy, which is cellular cleanup. They also help with metabolic flexibility, and also there's some that help with neuroprotection.

SPEAKER_00 59:04

Absolutely. And I think this is kind of where longevity medicine starts sounding like science fiction to some people.

SPEAKER_01 59:10

Totally. But, you know, I think it's important to stay grounded too, because the field can drift really quickly into hype. And, you know, there's no peptide that can override poor biology. No amount of advanced therapy fully compensates for poor sleep or sedentary living or loss of muscle or chronic stress or overconsumption of ultra-processed foods or metabolic dysfunction.

SPEAKER_00 59:35

So the foundation still drives the system?

SPEAKER_01 59:38

Always. Foundation creates the environment. So these advanced therapies may help optimize, accelerate, support, or enhance physiology, but they work best when layered into healthy biologic signaling.

SPEAKER_00 59:53

That's actually a really balanced perspective because social media makes it sound like peptides are magic. They're gonna fix it all, essentially.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:03

And you know, and I think what excites me most is not biohacking, which a lot of people are familiar with. It's understanding how adaptive human biology actually is, how the body wants to repair, how it wants to recover, how it wants to maintain resilience. So the question that we have to ask ourselves is what signals are we consistently giving it?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:23

And regenerative medicine is really trying to support the repair systems.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:28

Exactly. Yeah. Whether we're talking about exercise, sleep, nutrition, peptides, recovery therapies, or regenerative medicine, I think the deeper conversation is really about helping the body restore adaptability and resilience. And mitochondria sit right in the middle of that conversation.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:44

And I think after everything that we've talked about today, I keep thinking about this idea that maybe people have normalized a feeling of suboptimal feelings for so long. So they've maybe forgotten what healthy actually feels like.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:59

You know, as I mentioned before, one of the biggest tragedies with modern health is that we've normalized fatigue and brain health or brain fog, poor we've normalized poor sleep or low resilience or the constant cravings or the low exercise capacity. We've normalized chronic stress and having that unstable energy. And because it happens gradually, you know, people just assume like it's part of aging, it's part of adulthood, it's normal.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:22

And I think also it's normal, and it's kind of like what we said earlier, some of those things also almost become like a personality trait or things that people kind of joke about. But biologically, it it really isn't any of those things.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:36

No, it isn't. I think many modern humans are functioning far below their biologic potential and they don't realize it. And what's fascinating is that when physiology improves, people are often shocked by how different they can feel. I mean, we're not talking about being superhuman or, you know, extremely euphoric. We're just talking about being clearer, being lighter, being more resilient, being more capable, being more stable.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:01

And I think that it's very common too for people to know that feeling when they start getting healthier. And then all of a sudden they kind of realize, wow, you know, I didn't realize how bad I felt before. I didn't realize exactly how bad it had gotten.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:13

Yeah. I mean, people adapt psychologically to this lower energy and reduce resilience over time. Because, you know, as we mentioned early, it it typically accumulates kind of gradually, not overnight.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:25

And I think that then they think like, wow, all this high energy is actually unusual.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:30

Exactly. I mean, we've normalized being exhausted so completely that stable energy almost looks abnormal now. But, you know, humans are actually designed for remarkable adaptability and resilience. Historically, humans were incredibly physically capable. We evolved around movement, around challenge, around environmental variabilities, and we had metabolic flexibility. The body expects demand.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:56

Absolutely. And I think that modern life and you know society now has kind of removed a lot of that demand as well.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:04

Yeah. We've engineered convenience in almost every part of our life. And, you know, and I don't I don't want to sound like a sour a poor sport, but you know, convenience itself isn't, you know, truly convenience isn't bad. But biologically, chronic comfort without challenge often accelerates decline. I sometimes say aging is the progressive pursuit of comfort. And honestly, I think that that's there's a lot of truth in that. I I I say that to my patients all the time.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:31

Yeah, no, that's definitely, those are both really good lines. And I think it's also such an interesting line because everyone is trying to make life easier. We're we're focused on making things easier and like you said, convenient, but maybe, maybe too much, so it sounds like.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:44

Yeah. I meant the body adapts to demand, not intention. If we stop demanding strength, strength fades. If we stop demanding endurance, endurance fades. If we stop demanding metabolic flexibility, flexibility fades. The body is constantly asking, what capacity do we still need to maintain?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:02

And mitochondria are still just responding to that question all the time, constantly, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:07

Every day. I mean, movement, as we said before, movement changes mitochondria, sleep changes mitochondria, stress changes mitochondria, nutrition changes mitochondria, a recovery changes mitochondria. And, you know, we're continuously training our biology.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:22

And I think that that's something that's a theme in this episode so far, that it's really hopeful because, you know, adaptability can work both ways.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:31

Exactly. Um that's one of the most empowering things in longevity medicine. The body remains remarkably adaptive far later into life than most people realize. People can improve their VO2 max, they can improve their muscle mass, they can improve their mitochondrial efficiency or function, they can improve metabolic flexibility, they can improve insulin, they can improve strength. Yeah, hopefully people find that that's incredibly hopeful.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:56

So the goal isn't just becoming younger again, which I think is a big misconception.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:01

No. The goal is preserving capacity to think clearly, to move well, to recover, to remain independent, to travel, to train, to play with your children or your grandchildren, to continue participating fully in life. That's real health span.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:14

And that's really what I think anyone really can hope for. Is that's what's people everyone's really searching for. It's not more years, but better years.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:22

Yeah, I mean, it's uh you know, we've we've said before, I mean, people, they're not really looking at lifespan, how long they can live. They're they're looking at health span. They want that vitality, they want stable energy, the clear thinking, uh strength, the resilience, the emotional and intellectually and intellectual capacity. They want recovery. And like I said, they they want to be able to fully engage in life physically, mentally, and emotionally. And hopefully we've we've made it clear that you know mitochondria are deeply connected into that entire conversation.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:52

Absolutely. And I think that that is kind of a perfect place to end and wrap up this great conversation because being that this episode really wasn't just About mitochondria. It was about really understanding why so many people feel exhausted and realizing that the body may be far more capable of recovery and resilience than what we've really ever thought before or what we were ever even taught to really believe.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:16

Exactly. The body is adaptive. The question is, what environment are we asking it to adapt to?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:22

Absolutely. No, I think this was such a great conversation. I know that my mind is spinning and thinking about things completely, completely differently. So it's been another great conversation. Thank you so much, Dr. Young. And to all the listeners, make sure that you follow and subscribe and send the show to anyone who wants to have a better and healthier life, which is essentially everyone you know. So make sure to subscribe and follow. And I can't wait to speak with you soon, Dr. Young.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:49

All right, looking forward to it.