What you avoid is the way

What if the thing you’ve been avoiding… is actually the way forward?

What if your wake-up calls aren’t here to break you - but to guide you?

In this episode, we talk about what it really means to open up spiritually - not as something outside of you, but as what you’re facing in your everyday life.

The patterns you’ve learned.

What you’ve been carrying for years.

And the realization that… it’s not actually you.

This episode is about seeing it, facing it, and taking ownership of your own path.

Find out more about Fernados work at https://www.vitalenarmonya.com/home

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:15

Welcome to the Nelign Stadius Podcast. This podcast explores fear, patterns, and the nervous system behind human behavior. Because the thing we avoid the most points directly towards the life we actually want to live. And when the fear is understood, it stops controlling us and instead becomes a source of direction and strength. So today we're gonna talk about how open up spiritually can change your life. And today I have a very special guest with me, my dear friend Fernando, and I'm gonna let him introduce himself.

SPEAKER_00 0:59

Well, thank you very much, Nelly, for inviting me to your podcast. I regard myself as a member of the Tree of Life of true reality, and as a being that is growing and discovering himself more and more in connection with others.

SPEAKER_01 1:18

Yeah, and uh I believe that we both have this spiritual way of seeing life. You have done some very deep work in this, and you're also working with it uh in your company, and I would like to know how what is your way of seeing, like what is spirituality if you would just put it in like a philosophy, like a broad way.

SPEAKER_00 1:42

Well, spirituality is usually a very general term to refer to the connection with your own spirit and soul. Let's say we are not just physical bodies, but we have a connection with a deeper intelligence, and obviously within the realm of spirituality there can be different ways of understanding, even religion would be included. But religion had its role in society and it became very dogmatic, very rigid, just as many other forms of spiritualities nowadays in general the label spirituality referred to many different kinds of approaches, and not all of them are aligned with a very deep connection with ourselves. So I would say it's important to be honest and realize that we have been conditioned by many ideas, a set of beliefs, and also forms of understanding move us away from true self-knowledge and growth.

SPEAKER_01 3:02

And also that the the the type of spirituality is like when I first discovered and I went on my own spiritual journey, I remember that I believed that what it was was supposed to be some God sitting telling me what I should do. Like I believed that spirituality was about religion a lot. What you're saying with all of these things is that it's so true that we sit with the thoughts of that it needs to be some woo-hoo thing, but it's so broad and it's so many things that can be included. Like you have those typical things like yes, yeah, and then you have um signs from the universe, and uh people have their own religions or those taro cards, and people believe if you take this card, it's gonna guide you for the rest of your life. But the spirituality is like um a form of knowing where you're going, the connection to your intuition, and it's also that you're listening inside instead of being connected to what the world is telling you to do.

SPEAKER_00 4:07

Yes, I totally agree with that.

SPEAKER_01 4:10

Yeah, I would say spirituality in a genuine sense is the inborn GPS that we bring, and that includes mental clarity, a big heart that is capable of experiencing and transforming even negative experiences, and open up to pure impressions, what we could call the data we receive through conscience, yeah, and that this the the spiritual part is like connected to your soul because when we're born, we're like a open book without pages, and then we meet people, we have our parents who that we grow up with, and they tell us how to do things and they learn us and they show us with actions, and then maybe they don't always have the capacity to do it correctly all the way, and then we get these patterns, and they're like on top of that uh compass, this inner inner knowledge. You get these layers on top of that, and then you need to work with those layers, and you still have this core, like you still sense it, it's just that it's many, many things around it in the way, so it's like we are pure from or when we're born, it's just that we need to connect with that part again.

SPEAKER_00 5:36

Well, there is a um a baggage that we also inherit through our genetic configuration, both energetically and biologically.

SPEAKER_01 5:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:48

But it's true that when we come as newborn we have a pure essence that must be developed. It's full of openness. But on top of that, we also start developing a personality which has a lot of baggage from the culture, from the genes, all sorts of conditioning and it's necessary to balance essence and personality.

SPEAKER_01 6:21

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 6:22

This is something I learned many years ago from teaching is spirituality devoid of religious dogma, even though it's present in many religious doctrines such as Christianity, no. But when you establish that difference between essence and personality, you can work to integrate both because it's not just a question of getting rid of all your personality and ego, as some spiritual teachings say. No, the ego or your self, personal self, it's important in the world, and that has to be in tune with something that comes from beyond, from a space which is devoid of conditioning.

SPEAKER_01 7:13

Yeah, and these things like they exist all the time around us. It's just that we are so blinded by how the world is created today that it's not like something we learn naturally to do, it's like something we have to discover usually by ourselves, unless we end up in that type of surrounding that supports that. This should be a subject in school because it's a teaching to also learn who are you? Like the big question, like who are you? Because spirituality is like you're saying, it's also it's beyond anything in reality, like an illusion of where we are. We're brought here to have a mission because it's not like you ended up before all of those millions of sperms in your mother's belly that you it was just random. It's not random, it's it's a meaning with it, it's a purpose with it. And um it's a broad subject that people don't know where to start but many people feel the the drawn part of themselves to something more than just going to work from eight to four in the afternoon. Where did you believe that the spirituality was a big part of your life? Like where did it start for you?

SPEAKER_00 8:27

Well, when I was a kid, um I always felt connected to a greater intelligence and despite I grew up in a Catholic family and I always well had the the belief in in a god my understanding or conviction was always deeper than what religion was presenting to me, and when I was about 18 years old, I started to separate from many of the religious ideas which I respect. I think everyone is in their process, and I realized that what Master Jesus or Yeshua, as I used to call him, brought was something that we have inside. It's an intelligent life, conscious life that is also expressed in other teachers. And in my case, it was a process of self-discovery that started when I was a kid with several experiences. As soon as I started to dig into myself through different forms of relaxation and meditation, memories started to come from my unconscious. One of the first was that I remember being in a space of light and being part of that light. Even though now I understand it's where we come from, or at least some of us, not everyone, but some some spirit souls come from a source which is pure light and pure love. Yeah, and it comes with a an information, it's not just uh a blank shed devoid of data. No, no, it comes with a purpose, as you said, will come like a seed. That that's that's a tree of life.

SPEAKER_01 10:31

So true, because it's like people believe that when you plant a seed, then you're supposed to take the fruit from it. Like if you plant uh if we refer to the tree of life, like if you are seeded uh when you are zero years old, and then you grow and you grow and you grow for many, many, many, many years, you're not gonna be able to take that knowledge and use it immediately because you need to go through all of these processes to find that path in that way. I talk to you and I say, Oh, how was your spiritual path? What did you discover? It's like it's not gonna be exactly the same, but the foundation and what you're saying now is it is the same for everyone. It's just that we with our personality we make different types of ways. Did you experience like that you felt alone in this way? Like, did you felt alone as a kid? I I see that you're smiling right now. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:35

I felt misunderstood and alone, and it come came a point in which I stopped telling just anyone what I experienced or what I felt because I realized that most people didn't care or thought I was going nuts, so I just share with only those who are willing to listen.

SPEAKER_01 11:58

I remember that when I met you the first time, it was really interesting because uh when you become very high conscious and you become very like known of yourself and who you are, you can sense these people who are open, like immediately. When I shook your hand, I could feel the sense of your soul. And I this person knows, so you find these people like we're randomly placed on earth, and uh to feel alone when you're a kid with these things, it's so normal and so natural. Nobody mentioned that that could be a part of it. If a kid is alone when they are little and they tell you to their parents and they say, I saw this today, I saw a man standing with a big hat in the corner, or a kid at school was telling me that I would looked stupid because I was talking to someone in the forest. It doesn't need to be that dramatic or something that you see, it can be an energy also, but then you classify it as weird, like you're classified as the stupid kid in school. That kid is the most intelligent kid in school because they have a belief and a knowledge of something that everyone else is just they're just watching the wall, and this kid is actually looking at the world and seeing beyond what's in front of him.

SPEAKER_00 13:17

Yeah, yes, it is actually in the schools, in most of the schools, I was in five, especially in the first ones. I was regarded as a mentally retarded kid or something like that. They said I I was not um capable of reaching higher education, which in the end I did because I I finished my higher school education and then I went to the university, I studied philosophy. I ended with very good marks, so uh it wasn't that the case, but I don't think institutional education prepares people for life. Quite the opposite.

unknown 13:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:00

Conditions up a lot.

SPEAKER_01 14:02

I have a saying that I use. Why would you search for an answer from someone who hasn't walked the way themselves? Why would you go to authority or a doctor? Or of course, when it comes to medication and stuff, that it's good to go to a doctor because they have more knowledge than someone who doesn't. But when you're searching on these separate paths of life, why would you consider going to a doctor telling them, you know, I think I'm mentally retarded, because people can believe that about themselves, because this is not something we talk about. You you just become some some stupid person. That's a power. Your fears are your superpowers. Like the thing that you are avoiding the most is the key for you to feel free. Like your mind is always gonna tell you something you don't you don't want to listen to, because it's catching up on everything you see. If you look outside the window, you see a green tree, and it's gonna say, Oh look, a green tree, it's beautiful. And then you're gonna start thinking about that ex that one year ago hurt you or did something bad, because that's the way it works. But it's not you. You are not what you hear in that head. You are that soul that feels drawn to things. It's a false safety in your system that's telling you, oh, we should just stay here because it's common. I use this, but it's not you.

SPEAKER_00 15:22

Yeah, not all kids have the same potential. No, in principle. It's it's true that some souls come with uh a baggage of deeper evolution, let's say, because they have been working in in other lifetimes at the same time, so that makes a change that makes some kids more curious, whereas other kids accept the reality they are presenting very easily. Actually, there is um a psychiatrist who is called Casimir Dabrowski and he developed what is called the the theory of positive disintegration, and he um defined very well how some people come with greater potential to change society, and when they reach a certain stage of self-realization, they start experiencing symptoms of depression, sadness, or allergies, or digestive problems, because the energy they have is so intense that it has to be regulated in a different way, it's not just like a normal person, and that can only take place when you develop what he called the personality or the authentic personality. Yes. This is what the schools are blocking, yeah. Yeah, it's personality so we don't develop ours, and this is the problem.

SPEAKER_01 16:56

But when you say that, that thing that he is touching, the very, very thing that he's touching, they put people and especially kids, they call them weird and they put a diagnosis on them. They put them in a frame to keep the society safe from these type of people. Doesn't mean that you need to have a diagnosis to be able to have this type of power if some people are more capable than others of reaching this type of way faster and easier because they have it in another development. Yes, and uh they can change a lot of things, and we had a lot of those in the past, and they studied for many many years, and today this psychiatrist that you mentioned that you know they are smart and he knew something, and he was just telling the world that this is what it is, take it or leave it. Like, this is the book you should read. You shouldn't read literature that is made up about some frog dancing around a Christmas tree. That's good for the fantasy part, but it's not good for that you're reaching this point in yourself.

SPEAKER_00 17:57

Yes. And it's it's necessary to follow that inner compass of that that inner GPS for which you you need to work and not only work on your own but with others, which that's very important as well. Yeah, it's not possible to work alone in the tree of lives. I mean, you can work on your own for a while, but sooner or later you have to find others that are having the same understanding.

SPEAKER_01 18:23

Yeah. With my development from being in a very, very bad health, both physically and mentally, and it this wasn't a place that I wanted to live in. I um walked that path alone, but I came to a point that I I can't do this anymore by myself. Like I did a lot of it by myself. You come to a certain way that you either give up and you don't give a shit about it, or you keep that in mind that you want this part and you want to continue, and you try to search for people, talk about it. Because yes, some people will reject you and some people will actually bring you into their lives very closely, and they will guide you and they will mirror you, and they will be a part of that journey.

SPEAKER_00 19:10

Yeah, that's very important because in the Tree of Lives we all are like members, being whole, we are not just part of a mechanism, we are wholums, as I like to say, using the expression of Arthur Kessler, who was a philosopher that coined that expression to differentiate that from the part. In in our society, we are parts of the social organism, or we are part of the state or whatever. But in the tree of life, there are no parts, there are elements which are whole in themselves. So when we relate to others, we are relating to ourselves as well. We are reaching ourselves through other points of view which are also enriching and give us impressions. It's very important to receive living impressions and not just dead associations.

SPEAKER_01 20:10

A lot of people who are doing this journey that they are very powerful in the way of sense that they believe they can do it alone. That's what we learn. Because if if you're alone as a kid and you don't, like you mentioned earlier, that you s you stop telling people what you see, what you experience, what's real for you, then you believe that that's your reality. People are not gonna care shit about what you're doing, so you start doing it alone, like you're walking that path alone, and it's it's very draining in the long term for someone to do that. It's you become very, very strong and independent, but for for your own health is not the best. That's why the the spirituality can change your life, and also seeing you're not alone, you're you're always carried.

SPEAKER_00 20:58

Yeah, that that is very important because uh growing means you develop love and you cannot just give love to yourself, which is important, but you need to share it with others. And it's also important to realize that we cannot remain awake 24-7, and when one is awake, can help the other, and vice versa. So this is really important, even though most of us started our own journey lonely, because we were alone in a sense, because we also had help from the divine intelligence, but uh we did not meet the appropriate people in the first years that came later. But it's not something that just comba comes by itself. Yeah, you have to be open, willing to receive others into your life as well.

SPEAKER_01 21:49

Yeah, when you are supposed to come to this spiritual journey, you're supposed to go this way, and you're not listening, then things unfortunately can happen. People can end up in situations like, for example, they can end up in a car crash. You're on the edge and you understand that something is wrong around you, and things don't align anymore. You can't you can't figure it out. Feeling of I wanna escape myself, but at the same time I'm so curious. Then you have a choice. This thing you say, you have a choice to be open-minded and to listen to what you're getting guided to, or you choose to stay in that false safety that was built. Way for you to tell yourself, okay, I'm gonna listen and I'm gonna see what I can reach to find my highest potential. But sometimes it takes for our mind to literally shut the fuck up and just say, Okay, I give up. Like it takes that much of energy from the world to tell you this is what you shouldn't do. Stop continuing what you're doing and go this way instead.

SPEAKER_00 22:53

Yes. I think most of us learned the hard way. Yes, crashing against the rocks many times and suffering for it, yeah, getting sick and being almost on the verge of dying, no.

SPEAKER_01 23:07

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 23:08

But that's part of the lesson as well. When you put your fingers in the socket, you know what happens, you know. Yeah, so it's a way of understanding the the so-called tree of knowledge of good and efficient, which is the opposite to the tree of life.

SPEAKER_01 23:23

If someone would come to you and they would say that stuff is happening to me and I can't really figure out life, and you know that you either need to go through that really dark forest in front of you, or you can continue walking on that roller coaster path, and you're not gonna find your way because it's just blurry. What would you tell a person from your perspective that is on that path of almost coming to their full potential?

SPEAKER_00 23:52

Well, it is said that there is a way to a life that has no limits, but before coming into that way it's necessary to go through several stages of preparation, so to say. We can call them the ladder. Um in different traditions it's called in a different way the hero's journey, as it was mentioned by Joseph Campbell, the mythologist, or the process of purification, preparation. And once you realize there is something in you which is harming yourself and harming others, it is necessary to open yourself to true guidance, and dishonesty uh implies you are willing to stop reacting to certain things that annoy you. You have to just watch and be patient and accept there will be guides in the way. Once you cross the first threshold, which is fear and doubt, you are willing to and prepared to meet a guide that will take you to the first steps. And the ladder can be very long, path through all your life before you enter true life, which is a life in which you no longer follow, you no longer have repetitions because there are repetitions of the same patterns over and over again, and it take it can take some long work before reaching there. But once you know the ladder exists and there is a path of purification, things change. Life will not be the same for anyone. And this is a science, this is not just random. You you see how things happen one by one.

SPEAKER_01 25:44

With what you're saying, that it is a combination between being very curious about yourself. That's one main thing. Like if you're not curious about yourself and observing yourself why you're doing something, you're still questioning yourself sometimes why am I here? Why am I doing this? You can stay aware for all your life, but if you don't take action and actually change the perspective of this, then you're not gonna be able to see a change in your life. That that's not gonna happen. You need to be able to listen to it. Like you're surrendering to yourself, like who you truly are. Go through all of these layers to reach this core of yourself. You're not gonna be able to be like flying on clouds all the time, because you will still meet obstacles in your life, but you will be able to handle it differently, like you will be able to know how to navigate yourself through difficult times, and it won't affect you that much.

SPEAKER_00 26:39

Yes, even the so-called La Noche Oscura del Alma in Spanish, which is the dark night of the soul, which is a process we all went through. It's very painful. But it's a process in which you have to come into terms with your own traumas and your own monsters and demons and face them, go beyond them. Otherwise, any approach to spirituality is gonna be chaos. And this is the problem of most people that approach spirituality, they think they can just sit and meditate for hours without having any problem, or going into a retreat and stay one week without talking to each. They can discover in silence that is useless. Unless you overcome certain traumas, because meditation or consciousness is like um a lens, magnify everything. So if you don't deal with your own monsters before coming into a spiritual work, it will be chaotic.

SPEAKER_01 27:43

I remember when I went through this, uh I had this feeling like all my life with something that I carried on my back, and I know a lot of people can relate to that. Like you feel you're carrying something that you can't put your finger on, you can't put words to it. It's just you you don't feel like you can relate to it. Something there that is not yours, but you're carrying it. I was in that state, like when my father passed away. It was this sense of that I carried a part of him that wasn't me, and it was like a pattern from generations and generations that I need to get rid of this. And I remember that I asked a friend of mine who um who were doing a lot of zone therapy and s and I asked her if she could help me. We had this amazing experience, and then she told me that I'm sorry Nelly, but I can't help you. Like you have to do this alone. And it's the scariest part when someone telling you that you need to face this worst thing that carried with you all your life, you need to do it alone. You are the one who needs to break that part. And uh it was an amazing experience, and I I made it through, it's not there anymore, and it's like a purification of life, but you need to be able to know that this thing is not hurting you, it's just showing you where you need to look.

SPEAKER_00 29:07

It's like a stepping in stones. Every dark stone we find in the way is an opportunity to become more aware and conscious of what is limiting us.

SPEAKER_01 29:21

Yeah, like you should be excited about those rocks. You should be like, Woo! Now I have something new to look at.

SPEAKER_00 29:28

Yes, I was inspired by a teacher that brought a few good points in in this issue, and he's he said um when you find the devil, put the devil to meditate. So uh he he had a car crash accident one time and he was almost on the verge of dying. And when he came from the coma, he he said that he was very happy because there was pain all over his body, and he was able to remember himself. He was Gurjev. Gurjev said that it's it's necessary to really remember to bring your members together and to recall what you are. And if you are asleep in a in a mechanical body with pleasures and distractions, it's very difficult to wake up. If there is something that really makes you suffer, then you can pay attention more. Yeah, it's a remembering factor.

SPEAKER_01 30:28

Every one of these philosophers they have so many perspectives of all of these things, but they're they're talking about the same thing. What you are supposed to look at, it's very frightening and it's very scary because first of all, we don't learn that, as we mentioned. Like you don't learn that how to to face this, you learn how to walk down the stairs when you're a kid, because you need to learn to walk. You bring these things with you, and the importance of knowing that what is scaring you and what is supposed to be the way that you should avoid all your life. I went over that and I I uh I healed from it. If it's still in your nervous system, it's gonna come up again and again, and you're gonna meet situations. Say that you are with uh this typical anxious avoidant attachment type of relationship. Maybe you had it with a parent, and then you meet someone who has that as well. Like maybe you're anxious and that person is avoidant. This pattern is gonna go repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat until you understand, oh shit, wait, maybe I have been in the same type of situation for 20 years, and now I need to understand that this is not who I am, it's just a part of me that maybe it was brought from someone else. Spirituality is like what is in front of you, like what is literally in front of you, and what what are you avoiding every day that can show you the path?

SPEAKER_00 31:56

Yes, yeah it's conscious work and not mere, I don't know, transcendental meditation or meditation. Nah, I mean those things can be useful in some context.

SPEAKER_01 32:11

Meditations, it's a tool. It doesn't mean that that tool is gonna fix all of you. You need to be able to be, like you say, aware and conscious all the time, but at the same time, you also need to understand that you can be conscious and say to someone, I am that person, that's who I am. I am one of those who look at myself. Can you can put that in your brain and telling yourself that for all your life, but that's just uh a source of safety that you give to yourself. Okay, but in the practical part, do you do that? It depends on what you're actually doing in actions, not what you just think that you are.

SPEAKER_00 32:49

Yeah, that that's the the question is how we use certain tools. Yes, sometimes uh they can be a magnifying glass that helps you look like I don't know, uh reading your unconscious with symbolic images being the dark or whatever, or um associate a number to a particular pattern, or um use I don't know, chanting or music in order to become more aware of certain energies, but we have to avoid turning that into idolatry, which is very common in this in this pseudo-spirituality world using all sorts of spiritual tools, you know, and so that's the yeah the difference.

SPEAKER_01 33:35

It's important to know that spirituality is different for anyone, and everyone is gonna approach it differently and see it differently. Like some people, like you say, some people are very like aligned with seeing numbers, some people are very aligned with seeing symbols coming to them, and some people are not open to that yet. Maybe they just feel energy or a sense of direction inside of them. It's it's different, and it's the same with like having a personality, we approach life differently and we see it differently. But the path in the basic is the same that you need to walk, you still need to face those things, because that's the part of purification.

SPEAKER_00 34:12

You need to know the false as well, yes, uh, in order to become more aware of what works and what doesn't.

SPEAKER_01 34:19

So be true to yourself and saying that even if a like a pattern that you carried with you is not yours, you still need to accept, okay, I do the same. I've been doing the same, and now I need to show myself. Is this the path I'm gonna continue with? I wanna thank you very much, Fernando, for your perspective. And I'm also gonna put in the description under this uh podcast about your work in this path of uh spiritual work, knowing what you do with the tree of life.

SPEAKER_00 34:50

Well, thank you very much for allowing me to connect and share all these wonderful ideas, and well, I look forward to keep in contact. I will invite you always also to my channel. I have a channel in English. I hope everything goes perfectly aligned with the tree of life.

SPEAKER_01 35:11

That sounds very good. And uh as I always say, that uh your fears are your superpowers, and the thing that you avoid the most is the thing that's gonna set you free.