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Books, Belonging and Life's Unexpected Paths: Finding Joy, Community & Courage to Change with Tash Wilson
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What happens when you stop following the plan and start following what brings you joy?
In this heartfelt and inspiring conversation, Tash Wilson shares her journey from PE teacher and football referee to book influencer, community builder, and pub manager. Along the way, she reflects on burnout, trusting life's unexpected twists, the power of friendship, and why community can completely transform our sense of belonging.
Tash opens up about finding her tribe through sport, navigating career changes, embracing new versions of herself, and how books have helped her understand both herself and the world around her. Together, we explore the wisdom of finding joy in everyday moments, inspired by the work of poet Donna Ashworth, and why connection remains at the heart of everything Tash does.
Whether you're questioning your next chapter, seeking more joy in your life, or simply love books and meaningful conversations, this episode is packed with warmth, wisdom, and encouragement.
In this episode we discuss:
• Finding friendship and community as an adult
• Burnout in teaching and career transitions
• The power of sport to bring people together
• Why joy is found in small everyday moments
• Books that change lives
• Letting go of old identities and embracing change
• Building belonging wherever you are
• Creating meaningful connections in modern life
Featured Authors & Books Mentioned:
• Donna Ashworth
• Jenny Godfrey
• Jacqueline Wilson
• Daisy Buchanan
• Hattie Williams
• Alex Kadis
• Nussaibah Younis
Connect with Tash:
Instagram: @thistashreads
Kelly has been presenting radio shows for a while, and has often been asked if these shows can be heard again many months after the show has aired, listeners wanting to listen again. She heard what was being asked and now brings to you …
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Kelly Saward in Conversation with ...
I am delighted today to be joined by Tash Wilson. Tash, good morning.
SPEAKER_02Good morning. Thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_01Thank you for joining me. It's a real pleasure to take the time to have a conversation with you actually about all things books and anything else that comes up.
SPEAKER_02Cannot wait.
SPEAKER_01So let's start with you. So you're not local, are you? So we're dialing in. Where are you based?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so I'm based on the Wirral, so just by Liverpool. Um, it's a little peninsula that sticks out just across the Mersey from Liverpool. So that's where I live now. Originally from the other side of the Penn I was in Yorkshire, but moved here a few years ago, made it home, and absolutely love the place. So stayed here, and here I am.
SPEAKER_01So the foreseeable future is to remain exactly where you are.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I absolutely love the place. Um, the Wirral, I moved here. Well, I actually moved to the Wirral a year ago, but I moved to Liverpool four years ago, but met some of the most incredible women, have become the best friends, and they are just an absolute powerhouse of a group who I cannot just I just cannot describe how amazing they are. And I was like, Do you know what? This is where my roots now are, and I'm just staying here for forever.
SPEAKER_01There's something in what you said there, I think you've just really hit the nail on the head. I think you know that home is where the heart is, you know, really feeling part of something. If you feel connected and part of a community, it becomes home, doesn't it? And you've just your proof of that right here.
SPEAKER_02Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love Yorkshire and I love everything that Yorkshire is and about, and all sort of the the history and stuff that's there. But when you meet your people and the community, like you've just said, that that creates around you, and how you can put so almost everybody puts a little bit into the bigger thing, but everyone gets so much more out of what they put into the group, and there's probably about 30 of us who from the most random, different places and different phases and times of life, and between us there's people from like 21 all the way through to 60, and it is the most random group of women ever. But we are, I want to say the best group of women because they really are. So, yeah.
SPEAKER_01That's so lovely to hear. How did this? I mean, I want to go back and ask a bit earlier about you, but while we're on this subject, how did this group come about? Like, how did it form? What was the joint love of things, you know?
SPEAKER_02So it was really random. So when I first moved to Liverpool, I decided to I've worked in sport for most of my life, and I worked in a sport, and I was like, I need to go and do something different where I can run around, blow off some steam. Um, I've always been quite sporty, quite active, and I need to go and find something that's away from my job that I can go and just be someone that's enjoying that sport. And I went one week to a back-to-netball session and a back-to-hockey. And the back to netball session I didn't really enjoy. I've always enjoyed playing netball as we're younger at school and stuff like that. And when I was at uni, but the the vibe of the group wasn't for me. Um, and then I turned up a couple of days later to this back to hockey session, so did a few of these other women, and we just instantly just clicked and it just became a thing. And we kind of just we recruited more people along the way, like it does. And before we know it, it's snowballing to this massive group that we've now got so many side tangents that the hockey has become like a side to the social element of what we've created. So, you know, random coffee trips, bike rides, we've now got a cricket team from it as well. And it's just group that if someone has an idea, everybody just goes along with it, we have a whale of a time, and that's what it's about just enjoying things and not taking things too seriously. Everybody, there's always someone within the group that's been through something that you're going through, so there's always a support mechanism there, and it is just incredible, like it's so powerful, it's it's just pure magic.
SPEAKER_01That is magic. I sit around the fire with a wonderful group of women, and you know, like the one thing that really stood out what you said there is someone is always going through something that's relatable, and to be able to have someone to just lean into and just sort of feel safe with it, it's everything.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's it's incredible. And like some of the girls, one of the girls at the minute is just going through a divorce, and like, but the other girls have been through that as well, and it's just pure magic just to watch that connection grow with those people that have spoken to each other, but they've got so much closer through that sort of commonality that they've now shared, and it's just so powerful and magic to watch that you know these things happen, and with that little bit of connection, the difference that that makes to someone is it's so powerful, it really is.
SPEAKER_01I know you can I can feel it from you. I mean, so sport brought you to these wonderful women in this network. So let's go back then. So, have you always loved sport at school? So, when you were at school, was that like a firm feature?
SPEAKER_02So, I was always a sporty kid at school, it was just a subject that I just really enjoyed. Um, the Pew teachers that I had at school, like the coolest teachers, which like the nature of Pew teachers, which is why I wanted to be a P teacher. I went into being a P teacher and then left just because I wanted a bit of a work-life balance. And sadly, as a teacher, there's not really much of that. So I decided to make the jump and kind of go somewhere else. But I've always enjoyed playing sport, just the running around taking your mind off things. I've been heavily involved in various sports over the years, professionally and personally. The biggest surprise for a lot of people is refereeing. So I used to referee, I got too old and injured now to continue. My hips, knees, and ankles don't agree with it anymore. Um, but I had an absolute blast refereeing for like the 10 years or so that I did, and it was an absolute pleasure to do some of the games that I did, and some of the players that I refereed were absolutely incredible, and then seeing some of those go on to sort of win European championships and be involved in World Cups and things like that is again really, really special. Um, but I've always just enjoyed sport, and I think now as I'm older, I appreciate more the recreational side of sport and just enjoying it, so not having to be the best or you know, be winning all the time or be involved at that high elite level of the game, but just enjoying the sport for that social element of it, that getting together after, going, going for a drink, going for food after. That's you know, the the reason why so many people play sport and enjoy sport is that social element. And we are very lucky that we are a very social team, and you know, we go and do all these like random additional things that the that the sport that we now play has become aside to the social that we now have. The social is like the cut the main thread that runs through it, and the sport is just the bit on the side, which is absolutely brilliant.
SPEAKER_01So I've got so many questions from that Tash. So first of all, the refereeing I'm assuming was football.
SPEAKER_02Yes, it was indeed, yes.
SPEAKER_01Um, and right back then, when you were at school, I think, and even now this thread is just carried with you, hasn't it? Because you're touching on the social connection. So when you're doing the sport, whatever the thing, it's the being able to be mindful and present, you know, really kind of getting into your body and also being around people and just feeling that sort of joint love. And I think that's obviously what's now really standing out in this group of wonderful women, you know, in this magic, because I keep witnessing it. If people come together for the love of something, whatever it is, a concert, you know, food, music, sport, the the energy is just infectious, isn't it?
SPEAKER_02Oh, incredible. Like I so I'm I'm also a Swifty, um, so I love ten swift as well. Last year, the year before, um, I went to see a sport, and it was absolutely magical. And seeing again, I went to Cardiff, and it was the one day in Cardiff that I went to, and I'm just getting goose up now, I was thinking about it. But the power of predominantly women, but not just women, coming together in a space that was so incredibly powerful. And I were I went with some of my friends, and I was just stood sobbing like part way through different songs, but just the power of people coming together over one woman that is absolutely smashing it on stage and everybody cheerleading and supporting her, and you know, obviously all the things that she's been through and all the things that people have been said about her. But actually, for her to stand up, keep going, and keep that resilience that she shows to keep going and to do a three and a half hour show with like no break, no interval, no nothing. I was absolutely in awe of what she did that night and like the stage and the choreography, but the songs and stuff as well. Like I play the guitar as well. So watching her do the 10-minute version of all too well, which you know is a feat in itself, but that it absolutely moved me to tears. Sort of the new album at the time, Torchy Poets Department, was absolutely incredible as well. Seeing that live, it was utterly unreal. But seeing all those people come together, that community of people, but then people around the world that had seen the same show but in different places, um, and then the surprise songs and things like that that people got really kind of made it unique and so powerful and such an incredible movement that kind of just took the entire world by storm, and it was again pure magic.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, my daughter went with her friends actually, and yeah, I I know them what you mean. It's that movement, and it's just like rippled throughout the whole planet in its in its own beautiful way. Yeah, I can just feel so many kind of synchronicities here with what you're saying, Tash. You don't look old enough to have retired and done all these things. Like you're saying I've retired from this for people listening that can't see you.
SPEAKER_02You know, you're not you're not an old, old person. Yeah, I'm 34, but I feel like I've lived about 34 lives in that time.
SPEAKER_01Well, that shows a life already on to a great start. So so just to touch back on then, so you when you were at school, you loved sport, you went to uni, presumably went into that area, so you become could become a PE teacher.
SPEAKER_02So I did education and sport at uni. So I had a very sporty time at uni. I was sports officer for my students union, so I was heavily knee-deep in sport, running of the sport, ordering coaches, sorting out referees, um, ordering kit, all sorts of random stuff that you end up doing, and then just the general students' union entertainment and social side of it. So, again, that bringing people together is something fundamentally that is a reason why I play sport as well, because you're getting people coming together and it makes such a difference for people just to feel part of something as well, which is always so powerful for people that sense of belonging. So, yeah.
SPEAKER_01I think your kind of well, my understanding, what I'm realizing, your kind of calling your life purpose is always the same. That print, it's just how it comes out along the way. So you've probably had that thread with everything you've done, that same calling, it is still with you, isn't it? Right up to now, I imagine. And then we're gonna come on to that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's man, it's not like the certain things that will get you out of bed in the morning and bringing people together and just making people's days better and giving people that sense of period is why I get out of bed in the morning and it's what I want to do. So, yeah.
SPEAKER_01And we need more of that. So, when was the break? When did you realise like teaching now? It's gotta go. I mean, I've I have spoken to many a people that have been in the teaching profession, and unfortunately, I know people are trying to do a good job, but it's it's not a great environment to work under, and things really need to change there. What was your shifting point in that?
SPEAKER_02My shifting point was I was getting up. So at the time I was refereeing as well. So I was training, I was doing two one-hour training sessions a day for the ref in. Um, so I was doing two hours of training a day. So I'd get up, I'd go to work in the morning at some ungodly hour, go do my hour training session, usually on the school field before I started, where got showered, changed, got ready for the day, put make sure everything was ready for the day that I needed, equipment-wise and things like that. Cracked on teaching for the day, usually had breaks or lunchtime duties or extracurricular clubs at lunch times and break times. After school, I was the lead for extracurricular. So I was doing all the extracurricular fixtures and clubs and all that sort of stuff, as well as doing like marking said three TCSE classes at the same time. So things was busy. I wouldn't get home then, well, get to the gym on the way home about six, seven o'clock if I was lucky. Um, do my session then, head home after that, usually it sort of ate some tea that I found in the freezer. I'd like to box up the week before, and then got literally get in bed, doing work, doing marking, doing paperwork, doing emails, whatever it may be, and then eventually falling to falling asleep in bed with my laptop still there with an email half written the next morning. And that was just like a rinse and repeat. And I got to a point where I was like, hang on a minute, this is not what I thought teaching was going to be like. I love the bits where, again, seeing the kids playing sports, seeing kids find a sport that they didn't know existed, but actually loved it and they were actually okay at it, you know, giving them the experiences that they could go away and carry on playing badminton for the rest of their life, go and do a sport that they never knew existed, like handball or something like that, but then go on and carry on playing it. And that for me is what I always wanted to get into being a P teacher for. But then everything else kind of took the joy of what that was away from it. And for me, that was their tipping point, which I was like, hang on a minute, this is not what's filling me up again. I need I need to go and do something different. So I that's when I left teaching. And I've thought over the years, do I go back? Do I not? Because I've still got my teaching qualifications, I can still go back to it if I'd like to, but nothing's changed in the industry or the education system, and until that does, I personally can't see myself going back.
SPEAKER_01So it's not a never say never, because obviously your passion for bringing out the joy in these young people so they know that anything's possible is still very much there. But it's the system, isn't it? That must have been quite hard for you. I mean, it sounds exhausting listening to what your day was. You must have burnt out. Burnout's a massive thing right now. Would you accurately say that happened for you?
SPEAKER_02I think at the time I didn't realise I was burning out, but retrospectively, I'm like, I definitely burnt out like easily. I was trying to do everything, trying to achieve everything on that like treadmill that life is where we're all constantly striving for whatever. Um, but you get to a point where you're like, hang on, my body can't keep doing this, like I can't keep functioning on like five hours sleep a night. It's it's just not healthy and it's not right. And unfortunately, that's what we've created. Well, not we, but you know, the the communal we as created with the education system, and obviously from a it's a political perspective, isn't it? With the education system, how it's built, how it's run, and you know, the history of education and where it's come from and why why it was started. Yeah, I as much as I love the getting kids playing sport, the the the side of all the paperwork, and I just want to say the boring stuff that comes along with it. You get the admin side of anything, but actually um that become more detrimental and and created that burnout, and that's what so many people I've got so many friends that are still in teaching, and you can I can see the same patterns in them, and they worked so hard and then crashing half-term and things like that when they've then got their own kids to sort of look after and be with, and then their own kids don't kind of get the best version of them as well. So it's catch 22, really. So yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's completely relatable. What what did what did it look like when you left teaching? So you moved from teaching then into obviously still with your love of sport, carrying that on. So is that where the refereeing kind of ramped up and other things came in?
SPEAKER_02When I left teaching, I was I was I was refereeing before I left teaching. I was at a reasonable level at that point, and I basically went and kind of sidestepped into working sort of locally for the FA. So I worked kind of developing referees off the field. So kind of my entire life was then encompassed by refereeing, which was a really bizarre thing that you know I never thought that would have ever happened because I didn't start refereeing until I was 19. So at the point of going to uni, what then became my job and my career for like probably 10 years or so, maybe a bit longer of my life, was something that I didn't even know kind of existed. Well, I knew it existed because I've watched football most of my life, but you know, I didn't realise that as a was a job. So I went into developing referees, supporting referees, and that was very much my niche within that world is that I wanted to support people and make sure when they kind of, you know, football and grassroots football in particular, there's a lot of abuse there and things like that, and stuff that you like to think doesn't go on, but unfortunately it does. But challenging it, kind of going through the right procedures to bring the people that are committing the abuse um to sort of the consequences of their actions. But also the bit that I know I felt that most people got forgotten about during that process was the refereeing self themselves that who forgot the got that got forgotten about in that whole process. And for me, making sure they were supported was paramount and making sure that they kind of got regularly checked in with, made sure they're okay. Um, it kind of goes back to that caring nature, that people feeling belong, like belonging, that that time where they're at most most at risk of kind of dropping out and like losing their love for it is the time when they need the most support and that sort of proverbial arm around the shoulder and kind of come on, it's gonna be okay. We've got the right reports in, we're doing the right thing. Well, you know, the people will face the consequence. And for me, that was a massive kind of part of that for me, as well as just like the education side of it, which kind of come second nature from the teaching element. So yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you can really feel from you, Tash, that thread of you know, when you were at school and saying about different sports, and then going on to uni and then being a teacher and wanting people to be aware of sports that don't exist, and then you ending up in a job yourself you didn't know existed, and then taking that kind of love of everything that's important to you to make sure people are supported, which has now brought you to move into this new life and this new space in the world that you love, encompassing again sport through the hockey with the women, with the support and leaning on. I mean, it's really lovely just to hear the the unfolding of your journey, really.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's been it's been a mad journey that times I can look back and I'm like, how's this happened? Like, why, you know, I've got no business being here or being part of this group of women that are amazing and stuff like that. And yeah, and it's it's weird sometimes how life takes you on this path that actually, you know, when I was at school and I was 14, I'm like, right, I'm gonna be a P teacher. Um and that is as far as I'd figured out. But I think now as I've got older, I've learned to kind of accept that, you know, yes, 14-year-old Tash wanted to be a P teacher, and then by the time I got to I don't know, 24, 25, I can't remember how old I was, like I decided Tash doesn't want to be a P teacher anymore. And I left that kind of version of me behind, and then realised that actually life takes you on these random different paths, and you know, at that period of time as well, I lost grandparents and things like that, and that kind of gave me that notion of like life being really short and you don't know when when the end's coming or that, which that sounds really sort of down and depressing, but it kind of gave me that new reality of life of actually what's the point in staying something, staying in something that you don't enjoy, like go and do something that brings you that little moment of happiness. And I know I randomly started posting about books on Instagram one day, and it's become a whole thing. Um, and now I've got plenty of followers on there, make silly videos about books, and just genuinely I enjoy it. The people I've got to meet through that, the things that I've got to do through that, I would have never thought I would have been there, you know. And it's been an absolute blast doing that as well. So it's kind of I didn't expect to be doing that, but here we are.
SPEAKER_01Now I want to talk a bit more about that, but it's what just really kind of sung out to me there when you were speaking, is that I really feel from you, and I think it's inspiring for other people to listen to. And I've got two daughters, you know, and one's on a gap yeah, she hasn't got a clue what to do, and I say that's okay. But hearing you, I feel you've got a real element of wherever that's kind of being downloaded from, like trusting in the journey and making the change. Because 14-year-old Tash who wanted to be a PE teacher, some people be pressured into thinking that you need to be a P teacher forever, but by trusting your journey and essentially just going through your emotions, you know, grieving different parts of you, like PE teacher Tash, you know, sitting with that, she's gone, referee Tash. But look at what trusting your path has done for you. It's just amazing. And this book thing, you know, that you're doing, which is how I actually discovered, you know, who you are online, because although we get sucked into heads down in our phones, it is wonderful for connection as well. Like I think there's uh positive and negative. But tell us now, up to date, Tash, where you are right now, what does work look like? And then we're going to dive into all your book stuff as well.
SPEAKER_02Work right now looks so different to what it has done in so long. Um, so last year I did a journal, I fully committed to doing this journal by Donna Ashworth. It's called Words to Live By. And it is genuinely being the single most thing that has transformed my life. And that sounds really sort of clickbaity-y and dramatic, but there is no other way to put it. So I fully jumped in because I was like, something didn't quite feel right, some so much felt off about my life. And I was like, right, I need to do something about it because you can sit, you can dwell, but then nothing changes. So I right, I love Donna's poetry, I'm gonna do this journal. So I fully jumped in, fully committed. My word of last year was joy. So basically, I was on this quest to find joy in whatever shape, form that came in. Which at the times I was like, what on hell am I doing? Like, this is ridiculous, this is crazy. Like, but one of Donna's Poems and there's a line from it that I've actually got tattooed on my wrist now that Donna wrote, which Donna thought that was for silly video until I sent her a photo with a tattoo chair. She's like, What are you doing? But basically, this book gave me the realisation, this journal gave me the realization that joy isn't a thing that we're trying to reach for and that we're all trying to get. And it's not like this end goal, it's little moments along that journey that kind of give us that moment that it's like, oh my gosh, this is really good. And then we keep going because we know, but kind of capturing that moment of joy, appreciating it, enjoying that moment because there is something else that's going to come along that's going to be a spanner in the work or whatever, but making sure we keep filling that cup up and kind of keep doing stuff for us and kind of seeking out those moments of joy. Whether it is that it's a really nice day, you can hang your washing out instead of hanging on the air and it takes three to five business days to dry. Like that is a moment of joy because it's sunny, it's nice, you can go and sit and hang out there. You get a bit of sun on your skin while you're hanging your washing out, those sort of things. And this journal, I've I've joked with Donna since that this journal burnt my life to the ground. So at the back end of last year, I realized the job that I was doing, it wasn't filling me with joy, I wasn't enjoying it. I just I was so unhappy, and it was really affecting me. And I was like, do you know what? Something's got to change. If not, I I'm I'm losing a part of me every time, every day that I don't do something about this. So I went on the lookout for new jobs and basically such a random tangent, but again, trusting that journey, trusting that process. I am now, because of that random journal, I'm now currently managing a pub, which is the most random career scene I ever thought I would take. But actually, it has become, and when I took over the pub, it was a pub with a bit of a reputation for being a little bit dodgy, which is not something that is me or is something that I will condone. So I've gone in, I've been me, uh, which is the only thing I can possibly be. So many people have come in back. We've got our own little book club at the pub, and like loads of fun stuff going off, and like not so serious bingo, like just really fun stuff that people want to come and be a part of, and we're kind of making it a really community-focused hub, which most pubs for years, for centuries have always been. And it's bringing that back, and the the hospitality industry as a whole at the minute is is struggling, it is suffering, um, and it's not an easy space to work in at the moment because of that. But actually, I am enjoying it so much. Like I'm working the most random hours because it's a pub, and you know, it's not money to find a nine to five. But actually, the team of people that I chose, I got to choose my own team of staff. So I went in and chose people that as the the yellows, which is a poem from Donna Ashworth. If go and check that out, because it is incredible. Um, so I choose a team of yellows, and every time I say that to the staff, they're like, Tash, what do you want about? Like, why are we yellow? Like, this is this is silly. And I'm like, Trust me, it just you're all yellows. And I shouldn't show them the poem that I can't get it. But for me, creating that space and you know, that flows from me into the team, then into the customers, and the customers that are in all the time love it, you know. We celebrate people's birthdays, we sell people getting new jobs, passing tests and things like that. And that's what places like that should be. Again, that bringing people together and just giving people a sense of belonging that they want to come in and share, that they've just passed the lorry driving test with you, and then you're giving them a big hug in the pub, and it's like they're loving the best life, and that's what it things should be like, instead of sort of everybody dead isolated, sat in their own houses and things like that. Let's let's get people together again and give people that sense of belonging, that sense of community. So, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Oh my word. Honestly, listening to you, it just speaks to my heart. I mean, I've just taken in everything you've said, there's so many things I want to say. So, I also I did Don Ashworth's journal, loved it, absolutely love it. I know all about yellows. Can you share the line that you've got tattooed from the poem?
SPEAKER_02It is from Do you want me to read you the f the first opening bit of the poet?
SPEAKER_01Let me just yes, do that. Because yeah, it'd be lovely to share that.
SPEAKER_02The the poem is called Joy Joy Chose You by Donna Ashworth. Joy does not arrive with a fanfare on a red carpet strewn with the flowers of a perfect life. Joy sneaks in, which is the line I've got tattooed. As you pour a cup of coffee watching the sunlight hit your favourite tree, just right, and you should joy away because you're not ready for her. Your house is not as it should be for such a distinguished guest, but joy you see cares nothing for your messy home or your bank balance or your waistline. Joy is supposed to sliver through the cracks of your imperfect life. That's how joy works. You cannot truly invite her, you can only be ready for when she appears and hug her with meaning because in this very moment Joy chose you.
SPEAKER_01Um I am honestly it it it just feels so important to hear that you've arrived also at the pub because I mean I teach mindfulness and meditation as part of my work, so I understand how important it is to be present. But you've basically brought back here like the public house, the home of all people, to come together. And you know, where you said the pub was maybe renowned with this reputation, just thinking about you refereeing and looking out for those people in the grassroots, you know, teams that were treated and you know, treated not fairly and you know, having their backs and pulling the right people in, you're bringing that thread again forward into this work in the pub, choosing the right team of people to create the community that you probably felt at school within sport, at uni, in you know, being a referee. And now, so it doesn't really matter what you're doing because that part of you is creating what's important.
SPEAKER_02Oh, massively. And I think I I'm only me right now because of all the me's that I have been previously, and each version, each past version of task that there's been has led to shaping this current version of me. And, you know, people be like, oh my gosh, baggage and stuff from the past, but I'm like actually, but without everything that's happened to me along this journey, and you know, all the spanners that have been thrown in the works and you know, all the wrong turns that we've all taken across life, we wouldn't be who we are today if it wasn't for all those things happening to us. And you know, when I go into the pub and I can chat to any single person that walks in the pub because I've got the background of the football that I can chat absolute rubbish to anyone about football for hours. When there's a controversial VAR decision, I'm straight there and I'm like, this is why they've done it. And it's the most funniest thing ever because people are like, huh? And if they don't know me, some most of them now know that I've got the background in football and refing. So they know it and go, Oh, here we go. Tasha's here, she's gonna tell us what's happening, and it's become like a bit of um, and it's funny, but actually, that's again, it's that bringing people together, creating that sort of commonality between people and not even just between the same people, but across genders, across different groups of people that you wouldn't normally see mixing. And I know, and taking it back to Donna Ashworth, we've got a book swap in the pub as well. And there were a lady that walked in, and we've got Donna Ashworth's kids' book in the book swap. And this lady walked in, she's like, Oh my god, I've been meaning to get these kids, this book for the kids for ages. I love Donna, and I'm like, Oh my gosh, dear. I don't like kind of said Donna's selfie a bit like so we took sent a selfie to Donna, and Donna loved it, and you know, it's that again bringing people together, that common interest, and kind of bringing people together. It's just pure magic, and you see different people when we have like the bingo nights in the pub, and we've got a band that comes in before bingo, and they're incredible as well. They're a local duo who do like acoustic music, and you've got people singing and dancing along to songs that are like from like the early noughties and things like that, and it's just an absolute vibe of like you know, there were two women that were dancing that have never met each other, but they were just vibing to the spy skills, and I'm like, that is what this should be about.
SPEAKER_01It's that joy sneaks in though, isn't it? Again, it's just like in all these moments, and I think you know, you said about all these different parts of Tash, and it's the same for all of us, and anyone listening can really take this on board. It's you know, we have to welcome all of those parts of us, all versions, not disregard them, not disown them. It's like, you know, for me, four-year-old Kelly, 14-year-old Kelly, 24-year-old Kelly, and the same few, they're all part of who we are now. It's like we're walking as this team, you know, with those lessons forward. And yeah, and you're just bringing that all home. It's just so lovely to see. Tell me about the books because your love of books is prominent. You're taking that into the pub. How did this you've always been an avid reader, I'm guessing?
SPEAKER_02Well, I yes and no. So I loved books as a kid, and I was like that kid at school that would always go home, like and literally read a book, like get the book up from school library, go home, read it, bring it back the next day and want the next one. And the school couldn't keep enough books to keep me entertained, basically. I was a free reader, like ridiculously quickly, so I could read what I wanted. The first book that I can really remember reading and hit me. So I love a book where I can see myself in a character identify with something. Um, the first book that I loved was The Suitcase Kid by Jacqueline Wilson, which Jack like I absolutely love Jacqueline Wilson, what she did back in the day, um, and kind of taking those stories that people weren't telling at the time. So she would tell really hard-hitting stories about, you know, blended families or families that would be at the time be labelled as dysfunctional, um, but actually it was really normal. And so many people are going through these things. And my mum and dad split up when I was, I think I was 10, um, and a teacher gave me the suitcase kit. And it was the first time I read a book and was like, oh my gosh, is this written about me? And I this is this is wild. And and that is something that even now, 20 odd years on from that book, I still love that in a book. But then I got to uni, started having to read really boring books for uni, like we all do, fell out of love with it and kind of stopped. Um, and then a few years ago, I read uh Mel C's autobiography, Who I Am. So Sporty Spice from the Spice Girls, adored her from the 90s Spice Girls element. And she was my favourite Spice Girls, being the sporty kid that I always was and still am, and it's become a nickname that some of my friends that I used to work with call me Sporty Spice, so it's become like a whole thing. But I read this book of hers, and that book is incredible, it's so incredibly moving, so honest, so raw, so just powerful. And that is the book that got me back into reading as an adult. And since then I've read a lot more books. Um but for me, and I've just read a book called Read Yourself Happy by Daisy Buchanan, and it is incredible, and it just reminded me as to why I actually read, and it kind of takes you out of that treadmill element of the world, and you know, you're constantly striving for the next thing, it gives you that moment of calm. So we're all so at up with the world, what we're doing, what we're not doing, comparing ourselves to other people. But by immersing yourself in a story, you kind of putting yourself into those characters' shoes, into those characters' experience, you project your experiences that you've had on that character, or vice versa. And for me, it's that moment of escapism. You generally learn something from every book that you read, and there are so many amazing books and amazing authors out there at the minute that I wanted to just shout and champion these authors and give them a moment to shine. And I really shout about some books that I've absolutely adored. Um, so the list of suspicious things is basically gone for like I feel like it's my trademark now, and like people tag me in their posts about it rather than Jenny, which has become hilarious. Um I've always become a single woman PR machine for Jenny's book at a random factor. I actually got kicked out of a literary festival because of it as well, which is a whole other story that we don't need to get into right now. But I silly miss that I do, and yeah, so that was quite funny. But I just have fun with it because there's a lot of really serious content creators out there, and I don't do it to make money, I purely do it to shout about good books and good people, and that is what I started with, and that is what now I think it's three, two, three years on since I've been doing it. Um, that I continue, and I get quite a few people saying, How much does Jenny pay me for shouting about the list of suspicious things all the time? And I'm like, nothing, because I do it because I love the book, I do it because I really enjoyed reading the book and the experience of reading that book, and I think everyone else should read it. So until everyone can everyone else has read it, I will keep shouting about it.
SPEAKER_00I know I actually brought it off the back of seeing your lovely, beautiful stack of the way you've arranged it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and I think that's important because again, it's coming back to that relating to being part of something, you know, like your circle of women when you relate to the character. I remember my daughter coming home um after she'd read My Friend Jodie by Jacqueline Wilson, and she was like, Whoa, mum! And we have always openly spoken about things, but she's talking about real life things that happen that people need awareness of.
SPEAKER_02And that I think that's what's so powerful about Jacqueline Wilson is she took stories that people were trying to keep behind closed doors and not speak about, um, whether that be parents splitting up or you know, pair parents having children with different dads and things like that. And I know Jacqueline Wilson says how um uh oh the name oh which books was it? Sorry, I've just lost my train. Well, I've not I've not lost my train of thought, I can't remember which book.
SPEAKER_01Um we can come back to that briefly, but um I know what you mean. It's important to have like the relatability and for people to be highlighting these things so that then we ourselves reflect that mirror of feeling more whole because it feels acceptable.
SPEAKER_02Oh, massively, and it it normalises these things. So when I was 10 and my mum and dad split all, it was so alien that the fact that your mum and dad couldn't be together, they had to be married, and my mum and dad were never married. Um, so I was straight away a bit of like uh, oh my gosh, Tasha's mum and dad's not married. This is a bit weird, uh and you know, you don't kind of fit that mould. But actually, I think what we've come to learn now 25, 30 years on, is that actually that mould isn't a mould for everyone, like there's different moulds for different families, and obviously now there's more acceptance around blended families, whether that be you know, parents that have split up of like mum and dad, but then also mum and mum, dad and dad. There's so many different combinations of families that can be a family, and there's no you know, right or wrong in that. And that's what I think is beautiful that people like Jacqueline Wilson have facilitated obviously, not in isolation, there's been a lot of things go off around it, but how those conversations have changed over that period of my lifetime so far, of how that's changed and shifted. I think that's absolutely brilliant, and you know, and that's what we need to keep doing with the world and kind of keep making those opinions more accepted and welcome.
SPEAKER_01Well, I think that that's it, Tash. It's the welcoming. And I've been doing a lot of understanding around this myself, and I know so many people separating and changing and like acceptably leaving relationships, and that's because we're not the same person our whole lives. We've touched on, you know, the different versions of Tash, the different versions of Kelly. We've all got these different versions, and how can we be expected to essentially stay in one relationship forever when we're shifting and changing and not at the same speed? So it's having acceptance that things change. We have to welcome it. We have to.
SPEAKER_02I think if you get with like you get with a partner in sort of your late teens, early 20s, then the person that you are at the start of your 30s, your start of your 40s, you start of your 50s.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I think the different every single one of those versions of yourself is is different. Your your your wants, your ambitions, your just your day-to-day looks so different. You know, if you've got kids, how that changes, and then it's to the point where your kids are growing up, and how that then changes when your kids are kind of flying the nest, and you kind of think, hang on a minute, like this is not what I want anymore, or whatever it may be. And you know, work through that and obviously do the work, and also you can only make your own decision in terms of what you want the outcome of that to be, but do the right thing for you is what I would always say in that respect, and kind of that version of you that you are now, like, yeah, that's been part of your past, that's part of your history, that's a different version of you, but do what's right for the version of you right now, is what I would always say to people.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think that's such a brilliant message, and it's like how you've shared, I know, making your own rules and the no-star ratings and things like that. That's that's before we have to go, tell us a little bit about that because I think that's really important. Like we're always measured on, you know, kind of platforms, and you know, what does success even mean? I've got a bit of a problem with the word success, it really triggers me. But talk to me about the no-star rating and making out your own rules.
SPEAKER_02I personally consciously made this choice when I, because when I was sort of like scrolling through Bookstagram, as it's called, um, we predominantly most creators, most people will kind of rate books out of five stars, which I fully disagree and hate because my five stars one day, the next day might be two stars because it's the mood that I'm in, or if I mark it two stars, then the next day it might be five stars because I'm not in a mood anymore. Um, so I made a conscious decision, and I think because well, when you see a book, there's loads of hype around, if everyone's giving it five stars, you get an overinflated sense of what this book's gonna be. You think it's gonna be amazing, and then it doesn't quite live up to that expectation, and then you're like, and then you don't enjoy it as much, and you know it affects your enjoyment. So I purposely made a conscious decision of not giving any book a star rating. So I give any review that I write, I give them, I basically answer three questions. Would I enjoy it? Would I recommend it? And does it leave a mark on me? Um, and for me, the answer to all those three questions is yes. I I obviously expand on just not just yes. Um, but for me, it gives me a really good scope of how to review a book that's going to be useful to people, and people can make an informed decision on whether they want to go and pick up that book or not. Also, if I didn't think it left a mark on me, but some books won't leave a massive emotional mark on you because they're not meant to do that, they're meant to be a bit fun, a bit lighthearted. It's not that kind of book. Whereas there's some books that are supposed to leave a mark on you, they are supposed to like break your heart and shatter it into pieces because that is kind of the premise point of it. Um, but for me, that gives whoever's picking up that review to potentially read it, it gives them more to go off as to whether they're likely to enjoy it. And there's quite a few people have now got similar tasting books to me that will read my reviews of these books before they go and read them themselves because they want to know if it's worth their time or not. Because it is an investment reading a bookie of your time, it's gonna be how quick you read it, hours of time to invest in a story, invest in characters, invest in authors. Um, and I kind of know now what books I like, what books I'll go with, so I'll generally pick up books that I will enjoy because life's too short for books that I'm not gonna enjoy. Um equally, I want to support authors who I know are also good people. So I try obviously, but books and reading are always political, so I purposely try my best to read books that are going to challenge me in that space as well. So recently, Careless People by Sarah Wyn Williams and Nobody's Girl by Virginia Jafe Roberts, they are two books that I've read recently that are so powerful, and I would recommend anyone to read those because they will change our mindset on so many things, um, and obviously they're quite current with events in the world and things like that. But we can read books for so many different reasons, whether it's just to enjoy, whether it's to learn something, whether it's to change his perspective. Um, and for me, that is the most powerful thing that we can do as a society is is keep reading books because the literature doesn't change, whereas, you know, it's there, it's there forever, you know, and books will be on bookshelves forever. And let's let's keep enjoying reading in and entertainment in the form that it is and that sort of slower gratification than what it is for like a scroll through social media, you know, put your phone down, have that little bit of screen time away, pick up a book, and you'll escape to a different place. And it is pure magic when you do.
SPEAKER_01Oh, what a way to finish our conversation. One last question. Now, Donna Ashworth is obviously literally made a mark on you. She's tattooed on your arm. Um, Jenny Godfrey, any other shout-out authors that have really imprinted like deeply that you want to share?
SPEAKER_02Um, there are probably, well, I'd say three more who whose books they're all debut novels. Um, and I seem to have a thing for people that have released debut novels. Like I seem to champion them more than what I do, like the series and things like that. Um, so Bittersweet by Hattie Williams, that is incredible. Hattie is so lovely. She's got a new book coming out. I can't believe it's later this year or early next year, but she's got another book coming out, which is going to be great. Big Nobody by Alex Cadis is brilliant. If you like Jenny Godfrey's List of Suspicious Things, you'll love that. It's very similar, but very different at the same time. And fundamentally by Nasaber Eunice, that is brilliant. Nasaber is iconic, she is hilarious. So I would definitely recommend those three, as well as obviously Donna and Jenny's either List of Suspicious Things or Barbecue at number nine.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I met her. We were actually in the Brook signing queue, queuing up for um an author at Cheltenham Literature Festival together. That's when I met her, and she was a really nice woman. She was just releasing that book at the time, and yeah, it's a really brilliant book. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Jenny is she's one of the loveliest people I've ever met. And like when I say I started talking about books online to chat about good books and good people, and Jenny's wrote two absolutely brilliant books. She's an absolutely brilliant person as well. So, you know, that's what I shout shout about so much, is ridiculous. She'll sign a text and be like, Tasha, you alive? I've not had any tags on Instagram for you.
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah, I can tell you're a big fan. It was an Asuba that I was in the queue with, not Jenny, but yeah.
SPEAKER_02Oh, okay. I've met her on a few occasions now, and she's brilliant. So yeah, fully read. Um read fundamentally. Yes. Yes, yeah, it's brilliant. There's a book, it's it's a great book, it's it's a topic that's taken it's a book about Iceis Brides, but it's done in such a way where you've got the balance of seriousness and humour, and it is just utterly brilliant. Like how she's written it is pure my like pure brilliance. So yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, she's got a really lovely energy as well. I think you can feel from a person, can't you? With their like you, you've got such an infectious energy. Whatever you're taking yourself into, honestly, it's been so great to talk to you. Can you share to our listeners how people can find you? If they want to follow you, stay in touch, give us all the details, Tash.
SPEAKER_02So I'm this Tash reads on social media, so I'm uh this Tash reads across all social media platforms. So drop me a follow, say hi, um, and come and watch me listen to me chat about books on there. We will, and you're not related to Jacqueline, are you? I'm not, no. I wish I was, and part of the reason why I loved her so much as a kid was oh my gosh, she's so famous with my last name. Like, oh my gosh, how does that happen?
SPEAKER_01It's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you so much for being with me this morning, and I wish you just lots of joy in moments that sneak in, really. Thank you, Tash.
SPEAKER_00Thank you.