Mommy Wine Culture Almost Broke Me: Ellen's Story

What if the hardest part is not quitting alcohol… it’s telling the truth about how much you’re struggling?

In this episode of The Alcohol Myth Podcast, Jonathan interviews co-host Ellen Biggs and she shares her full story: the “good girl” beginnings, the slow escalation, the secret rules and hiding, the loneliness of feeling like the only one, and the moment she finally found a path that worked.

If you’ve been functioning on the outside but quietly unraveling on the inside, this episode will feel painfully familiar, and genuinely hopeful.

In this video, you’ll learn:
- How drinking can start as belonging and slowly become secrecy
- Why “looking responsible” can keep you stuck for years
- The rule making cycle: weekends only, switching drinks, bargaining, and backsliding
- Why the idea of quitting can feel terrifying when your whole social world drinks
- How community and coaching helped Ellen build real momentum
- A practical mindset shift: experiment, gather data, and keep going

Quick takeaway:
You do not need a rock bottom. You need support, new tools, and honest evidence that life can feel better without alcohol.

Tiny FAQ:
Q: What if I want to drink less, not quit?
A: That is where many people start. The key is experimenting long enough to get honest data about how alcohol is actually affecting your life.

Q: What if I’m scared people will judge me?
A: That fear makes sense. This episode is a reminder that secrecy is heavy, and community is often the first real antidote.

Connect with us:
Email: thealcoholmyth@gmail.com
Jonathan: https://livecreativeaf.com/
Ellen: https://ellenbiggscoaching.com/

Subscribe for more episodes on pulling back the curtain on the alcohol myth.

Chapters
0:07 The secret: “I didn’t tell anyone”
1:09 Today’s episode: Ellen shares her story
2:09 High school: drinking as belonging
5:12 Spain: daily drinking becomes normal
7:40 Early 20s: drinking at anger, boredom, fear
8:34 Grad school: “work hard, play hard” and control as identity
11:06 Motherhood and the stay-at-home pivot
12:45 Expat life in Seoul: loneliness, community, and escalation
14:40 The first midnight wake-up: “this is out of control”
16:32 The hidden years: rules, shame, and isolation
20:36 “I just want to drink less” and why AA felt like the only option
22:05 Mommy wine culture and confirmation bias
23:00 Hiding books and searching in secret
24:06 The turning point: seeing Sober Sis on Instagram
25:14 The first real streak: 21 days alcohol-free
26:27 Annie Grace and the 90-day Path program
26:36 First alcohol-free Thanksgiving and Christmas
28:45 Year-long Path: the last drink and staying alcohol-free
31:05 The last drink that wasn’t meant to be the last
33:49 The belief shift: what alcohol was getting credit for
39:21 Did family notice? How Ellen navigated it quietly
41:28 The 100-day truth: telling her husband the real amount
43:37 Masks off: how honesty changed relationships
48:11 Coaching: purpose, training, and the fear of telling the story
53:26 Who Ellen coaches and what it’s like to work with her
56:50 Message to past Ellen: there is hope, and it’s worth it
59:42 Closing and how to reach out

#AlcoholMythPodcast #QuitDrinking #SoberCurious #AlcoholFree #MommyWineCulture #ThisNakedMind #HabitChange #Recovery

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

What was going on internally with me was very secret. I didn't share it with my husband, I didn't share it with friends, I shared bits and pieces with my sister. Um, but I felt incredibly alone.

SPEAKER_00 0:13

Why does the world act like alcohol is the answer, even while it is creating problems of its own?

SPEAKER_02 0:18

On the alcohol myth podcast, we pull back the curtain so you can see what's really going on with alcohol and what life could be like without it.

SPEAKER_00 0:25

We are coaches trained in this naked mind and effective liminal psychology who fell for the alcohol myth for decades. Now we help people take back control of their lives by changing their relationship with alcohol from the inside out.

SPEAKER_02 0:37

You don't need to wait for a rock bottom. You don't need more willpower. You just need a new way to understand what you are feeling and why you are reaching for that next drink.

SPEAKER_00 0:45

So let's dig in. We are uh getting to know one of your co-hosts on the Alcohol Myth Podcast, the lovely, the talented, the passionate, the beautiful Ellen Biggs is going to share her story with uh her journey through alcohol, where it all started, where it went, and uh with the hope that you'll hear something in her story that will resonate for you. And um, let's just get to know Ellen a little bit better. Ellen, how are you today?

SPEAKER_01 1:34

I'm good. I'm I'm a little nervous. I'm feeling a little vulnerable, um, but also excited. And I've never fully done this before, like on a camera recorded. So let's see. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:49

I felt very uh I felt nervous when I was in the hot seat last time. Um but uh you you have a wonderful story that I I know that people are gonna benefit from. So, Ellen, when you think back to where it all started for you uh as it relates to alcohol, I mean, what were your what were your first experiences like?

SPEAKER_01 2:09

So I I I go back to high school and it's kind of funny because I was, you know, a proverbial good girl, right? Like I got good grades, I followed the rules. I definitely a rule follower still to this day. Um, and I can remember my best friend at the time like starting to go to parties and starting to drink and starting to smoke, even. And I was so like aghast, you know, I was just like, this is not good. She's going down a bad path. I remember I gave her so much crap about smoking, she did stop smoking. Um, but the alcohol piece, like I started to get invited to some of the parties she was getting invited to. And then that was kind of like, hmm, that felt interesting. And then I went to one of them and I didn't drink. And I remember taking a beer from the pig and walking around with this beer, but not drinking it because I, you know, I was like, yuck, I don't want that, you know. But like little by little, I think I just started to look around and see, like, okay, this is kind of the ticket to entry um to this more adult kind of feeling, more a little bit more of a cool crowd, a little more, I don't know, belonging. And um so I yeah, I just slowly started drinking to fit into that scene. And then, you know, I think I probably like the way it made me feel. It made me, I was kind of shy, and you know, I'm like a good student, quiet girl in high school. And, you know, it loosened me up a little bit. It made me a little bit more confident, maybe. Um, yeah, and that's just kind of how it started. And I would say I was a pretty regular drinker in high school for the kids that drank in high school, you know. I mean, I I wasn't like super crazy, but I also like I took to it, you know. Like I drank pretty much from what the time I started, pretty much every weekend. I did have some guardrails in place. Like I was a good student, I kind of cared about my grades. I was on the volleyball team, which there was a girls' team and a co-ed team. So it was two seasons of the year, and we always had Saturday morning practice. So I usually would only party on Saturday night. So it was like one night a week. And I would, you know, party pretty hard on that day, but it like I did feel like there were like guardrails in place, you know? And um, yeah, and that's kind of how it started. And I definitely got that belonging I wanted, I got a group of friends. I it it it was it was mostly good, you know. Um, and I I think about the guardrail because I think this has come up with me quite a bit in my story. Because I I when I went to college, kind of a similar thing. I drank on the weekends, but not during the week, because I was, you know, a good student. I cared about my grades. Um and then I went to Spain for my junior year in college. And, you know, first of all, it was legal to drink there, and everybody drank a little bit. Like it was very common to just have a beer with dinner or something. And so there was always opportunities to drink. And I just, I think that was the first year where I started to drink pretty regularly, like daily, you know, when I was 20. And then, you know, more heavily, often during that time too. And um, again, it gave me belonging, it gave me acceptance, it gave me, it loosened my tongue speaking Spanish. It like I it was just it was I I saw it as a fun, positive thing, you know, really through through through college. Um, but I did, you know, after college, there were indications already at that point that I maybe, you know, was drinking a little bit more than everybody else.

SPEAKER_00 6:04

Could you say more about that? Like, so when you think about the first time that you started to notice that maybe this isn't like maybe I'm not drinking like everyone else around me, you know, like what are some of the thoughts that were going through your head, or do you remember like a particular um instance? What was going on in that season of your life?

SPEAKER_01 6:22

Yeah, I think, you know, I had a year in college where I met this girl who liked to drink a lot also. And it went from being like a weekend drinking to like, let's go out on Thursday, let's go out on Wednesday, you know. So it was just, and my roommate at the time, she wasn't really much of a drinker. So it was like there was a little cognitive dissonance already then. Like, you know, I thought I was having more fun and she was a little bit boring, but it was also a little bit like, wow, I'm drinking a lot. Like um, and then I think like I had a couple of years between college and graduate school where I was a little bit lost. I um I didn't know what I wanted to do, I didn't have a lot of guidance. Um I was a typical, you know, 70s and 80s latchkey kid. My parents were like the first ones in our neighborhood to get divorced. So there was a lot of like figuring things out on my own, you know? And then and so my sister and I did a lot of that. And then in my early 20s, my dad had remarried to this woman who was pretty horrible, and my mom was starting to date for the first time. And I can remember, you know, that was the first time I sort of started to drink at people. Like my sister and I would get pissed at, you know, my dad's wife or my dad or my mom or my mom's boyfriend, and we we would, you know, sit around and like drink at them. Um I think I also I I I started at that time probably using it more so there was like the anger piece, but like also boredom or confusion, like worry about who I was, what I was gonna do, my future. I I started to realize that having a few drinks would make a lot of those feelings dissipate. And um and I could just have fun and just enjoy myself and you know, it would quiet a lot of those questions. And then ultimately I got my act together. I went to graduate school, which is where uh I met my husband and I got my first like real job. And graduate school wasn't again another guardrail because like a good girl, rule follower, does like to do well in school. So I did all, you know, that was a priority for me. I still drank, but I was the proverbial work hard, play hard. Like I will, you know, I I needed, I was very responsible, you know. I was never the drinker that um people had to worry about or carry home or would pass out of the bar. I which I I realize now, I think really led to like the trajectory of my drinking because I I always looked like I was in control, you know, I always gave the impression that I had things together and I liked that, like I valued that. I I got validation from that, that like I had it all under control. But because that was so important to me, and because I was slowly unraveling, you know, as my drinking progressed, like it didn't allow me to talk about it with anyone or share it with anyone because I was so afraid of like not having control, not being perceived as someone who was responsible and the good girl, you know.

SPEAKER_00 9:51

Was there a particular moment or time in your life where it went from like, oh, this this uh this alcohol is giving me these this like sense of accomplishment and this um it's like the Swiss Army knife substance, right? Where I can like drink at problems and um relieve boredom and express frustration and also relax and also you know work hard, play hard. So when did is there a particular moment or time or season of your life where that started to shift for you into something that was like this isn't so good? Because it sounds like even through grad school, like it was still, it still at least looked like it was under control, but it sounds like at that point you were starting to kind of ask questions. So take me to that point.

SPEAKER_01 10:35

Yeah, I mean, I I had inklings, but I was still very much in it. Like, I mean, I got I and we've talked about this before. I got married at a winery in Napa. Like I was, you know, I worshipped at the you know, Boo's altar. Like I loved my wine, I liked beer. I was never really a cocktail girl. It was mostly like wine and champagne and beer. Um, I think when it first started being a problem for me was when I I I had my first child and I worked for a while. Um, but then after about a year, when she was about a year old, I ended up leaving my job. I was really conflicted. It was a very stressful lot of travel job, and I was away from her a lot and I didn't I didn't like that. And my job kind of changed at the time to something that I didn't really like. So it was like the perfect storm for me saying, you know what, I'm gonna take a break from this. I'm gonna try being a stay-at-home mom for a little while. And which I loved. I I loved it. And I'm and and I ended up being a stay-at-home mom for the whole my kids' whole, you know, time at home. Um and it's also really, really hard. And and moms don't really share how hard it is a lot of times, you know. Everybody kind of has this idea that if you talk about how hard it is to be with toddlers all day long, every day, that you're a bad mom or you don't love your kids, or you know, something's wrong with you. And so I struggled with that. And at the same time that I was deciding to stay home, so I left this kind of career and this image of myself that I was this like, you know, go-getter, I was gonna have it all. I was that generation that's like, you know, they broke the glass ceiling so that I could have it all, right? And then I decided to stay at home. So there was some conflicting feelings around that. And then suddenly I was home alone all day with babies, because then I had my second daughter, they're two years apart. And this is the same time that my husband's career was really taking off. And so we moved overseas for the first time as a family. Um, we went and lived in Seoul, Korea, as expats. And I think that our expat experience is a big part of my story because again, it's about the guardrails. Like I we moved to Seoul. My husband was working all the time. The thing about working in Asia is that if you want to have calls with the US, it you have to do them at night. So he would be at work all day, then he'd come home and be on calls in the evening. And so he was very absent. Um, and I was with the kids all the time, and I had to find friends and I had to figure things out, and I had to do it all in a foreign country by myself. And, you know, not that he wasn't supportive, but he just wasn't physically available to do it with me. And so it was hard. And um, and I found community with other women that were going through the same thing that also liked to drink. So then it became this like way to manage all of that stress of being in a foreign country and not having familial support around. And and I loved my experience in Seoul. You know, I still look back at as some of the best years ever. But there was a lot of loneliness, there was a lot of unknown, there was a lot of just party atmosphere. I mean, the thing about living overseas is that, you know, in a lot of countries, Asia in particular, that it's very um affordable to have household help. So suddenly I had very affordable child care. We had a woman, um, a lovely woman, her name is Jocelyn, that she was with us a lot. Like she didn't live with us, but she was available all the time and she helped me with the house and she helped me with the kids. And so here I am, I'm in Seoul. I can't work. I didn't really want to work, um, but I couldn't, even if I wanted to. I've got all this time, I've got child care, and I've got a bunch of women friends that are in the same boat and want to drink with me. So I did a lot of drinking there. And that's kind of when it started to escalate. At first it was fun, but that was when I first, I can remember the first like waking up in the middle of the night thinking, like, this is getting out of control, Alan. Like this, this is not going in a good direction. It was when I first started like making sure I had wine. Like I wanted to have, I only felt secure if I knew I had like three or four bottles in the closet so that I could, you know, get them if I needed them. Um and I think that's kind of when it first really started going off the rails for me.

SPEAKER_00 15:08

So you're in Seoul, you're living like an ex, you're living as an expat, not like an expat, you're actually an expat. Um, and you start to notice that I feel uneasy if I don't have a stock of booze on hand. And this is you're starting to notice that, like, whoa, this is something I'm doing quite a lot. Um, so where did your alcohol journey take you after that?

SPEAKER_01 15:34

Well, I lived in that space for the next, let's see, we moved to Seoul when Abby was six months old, and I first took my first break when she was 17. So I spent 17, 15 to 17 years in that space of worrying about my drinking, my drinking escalating, my drinking becoming more and more a secret, you know. I um everybody always knew I drank, my family knew I drank, my friends, like I was known as a fun party girl. Um, but also responsible. Like nobody ever, nobody ever said to me, very few exceptions where anybody said to me anything like, you know, boy, you had a lot last night, or or, you know, do you think you're overdrinking? You know, nobody ever, which was a point of pride for me, and it was something I protected. Like I said, I had that, I needed to be seen as responsible and capable and in control. And so what was going on internally with me was very secret. I I didn't share it with my husband, I didn't share it with friends, I shared bits and pieces with my sister. Um, but I felt incredibly alone. And and I started the journey of like, okay, I gotta get control on this. I started making rules for myself. I started um saying, okay, I'm only gonna drink on the weekends and that wouldn't work. Okay, maybe I'll switch to white wine was my thing. I love white wine, and it would go down like water. Like it would, I mean, it just the first glass would, I mean, everyone would joke about my first glass of anything. It would always go down really, really fast. But white wine was like, I knew if I opened a bottle of white wine, I was gonna be finishing it. So I was like, okay, maybe I'll drink beer. That will get fuller faster with beer, or maybe I'll drink red wine because I don't drink it quite as fast. You know, there was a point where I switched to briefly, I switched to like vodka and soda because I had heard that that had less sugar, but it didn't give me the same buzz. Like I didn't like that buzz that much. Thank goodness, because that would have been a dangerous road to go down, probably. Um, but yeah, I I mean, I have a journal entry from eight years before I first took a break that it just makes me cry to read it. I mean, it's I don't have it with me right here, but it said something like, um, I need to change. I love my life. I'm gonna lose this life. I, you know, like what is wrong? Everything is great. Why can't you stop drinking? What is wrong with you? We need to figure this out. But at the same time, it was so hard for me because I also could not imagine a life without alcohol. And I just couldn't imagine it. So as much as I wanted to drink less, it terrified me the idea of giving up drinking because I just I didn't know who I would be. I didn't, I I didn't, I didn't know, I didn't really know any non-drinkers. I had curated a life full of drinkers, you know, those were the people I sought out, those were the people I spent time with. And we as a couple, like Chris, my husband, we would drink together, he and I, we would drink, we would socialize drinking. And I mean, he went through periods where he drank a little bit more, but he's never been a big drinker the way I am. And he talked about guardrails, he couldn't. He had evening calls for like much of his career, so he couldn't really drink during the week. And um, yeah, so it was like a gradual sort of escalation, but you know, the first time I ever got a book about alcohol, I think it was between the time that I had Anna and the time that I had Abby. Like I I already I because I remember having the thought I like Chris and I wanted to get pregnant again and have a second child, and I was like, Oh yeah, it's probably a good thing to get pregnant again because my drinking's um it's kind of escalating. Like that'll really help me, you know, scale back. And thank God, yeah, being pregnant, I had no desire to drink. Something magical happens when you're pregnant, at least it did to me. So thank goodness. But then as soon as she was born, you know, that that was a very temporary guardrail, it just all came back.

SPEAKER_00 19:49

So wow, I didn't realize that it there was like that your consideration of or looking for resources to deal with your drinking spanned that entire time, like not only um your entire time as an expat, but like to pre-that to between your two kids, which are only two years apart. So um talk to me about your uh evolution with that, because at some point you picked up a book and then went back to drinking, but then you later on would find other programs, do other stuff. So, like you've been working on it for some time. What was working on your alcohol like for you and what was the trajectory of that?

SPEAKER_01 20:36

I was interested in figuring out how to stop drinking or drink less. Actually, drink less. I didn't want to stop drinking. I wanted to find a way to drink less. And I and so I sought out books and resources, and I would, you know, Google, am I an alcoholic? What can I do? And I and I didn't want to do AA. I knew I didn't want to do AA because at AA you can't drink, you know, and plus the stigma of it. And I didn't want to admit I wasn't, I didn't never thought of myself as an alcoholic. I didn't, I was afraid of that word. Um, and you know, because I'm a little bit older than you are, back in the day that I was looking at this, there were no resources. Like Annie Grace, her work is in the last 10 years. So I was starting to question my drinking starting, you know, 20 years ago. So there all there was was AA. So I was in the space of being like, I really know this is a problem. I'm not an alcoholic. I don't want to stop drinking, I just want to drink less. But the only option I can see is AA and stopping drinking or continue as I am. And everybody's telling me I'm fine. I look really not that much different than everybody I hang out with. And it I thought it was only me who was waking up in the middle of the night, like regretful, beating myself up, mad that I drank too much. I thought it was only me that was like. Sneaking wine at you know four o'clock when the kids were having their snack after school and feeling incredibly unshamed. I also was a part of that mommy wine culture time when they first started advertising heavily towards moms. That was right, I mean, the perfect storm for me. Um, so suddenly it was very acceptable to get together with other moms and have mommy play dates and mommies, you know, city juice and and all the things. So it was like confirmation bias on the one hand that I'm okay, this is what we all do, like no problem. This is like the sophisticated new way to be a mom, you know. Like I fed into that, but then at three in the morning, I would be like, This is not okay. Like, I know this is not okay. But I didn't know, I didn't have anywhere to take it. I didn't, again, I didn't want to burst that bubble of like Ellen's got it all together, the facade of responsible, you know, in control person. So I did all this in secret, you know. I mean, I remember getting books and hiding them from my husband, like terrified that somebody would like see something and then ask me about it, you know, because I I didn't see a way out. So it was really lonely and it was really scary. And um, and I think that's part of why I mean, this is such a crazy thing for me to be doing a podcast with you and talking openly about this, because this was my biggest, most shameful secret that I mean it's gonna make me tear up that I I carried for 15 years, you know, not having anyone to talk to about it. And it was really hard, and I I had such a good life, you know. I had a really loving husband, I had beautiful children that were great and adored me and thought I was the best, you know. And I and I was drinking every day, like I had so much shame around that. Like, what was wrong with me? And so when I first encountered, I mean it was just like a a fluke. Something came across my Instagram from sobersis, and she spoke openly about her drinking on this Instagram, and I was like, you know, and and I related to what she was saying, like I was like, oh my god, she sounds like me. Like I literally at that point thought I was the only one. And and I joined her 21-day program, which was amazing, it was transformative for me. I I this was you know, three and a half years ago, and I loved her program, and it was the first time that I met other women that experienced the same thing. I felt the same way, and um and she had a whole coaching program that I could have joined, but she has a religious angle for her coaching, and I'm I'm just not a religious person. Like I think she's wonderful, and the work she's doing is wonderful, but I didn't resonate with that side of it, and she referenced Annie Grace and this naked mind a lot in her work, and so I was like, okay, well, I'm just gonna go to the source. So I looked up her work, and um, they just happened to be offering at that time, they don't do this anymore, but they had a 90-day path program because I don't know that I would have committed at that point to a year-long program. I I did that 21 days alcohol-free. That was the first 21 days alcohol-free I had had since my pregnancy with Abby 17 years prior. Like I had tried many a dry January and not succeeded. I had tried many a Monday through Thursday and not succeeded. I mean, I had not so I had my first success. I felt great. Then that program ended and I and I drank again because you know, I just didn't have the tool. I didn't, I and I didn't know that I didn't want to drink. Like I still wanted to drink, I just wanted to drink less. So, but I experienced for the first time like how good it felt to not drink. Like not just physically, like the the better sleep and the more energy and the but the like the the pride I would feel, like waking up in the morning knowing I didn't drink. Like I had not experienced that in 15 years, you know? And and just I knew I wanted more of that, but I didn't, I wasn't, you know, I didn't know how to have more of it, really. And so I so that then I found this 90-day program with Annie Grace, and she um it was great. I mean, I I learned that's when I really got my first experience of coaching, like it was group coaching, and I had fabulous coaches, and I had my first ever alcohol-free Thanksgiving. I had my first ever alcohol-free Christmas. I wasn't alcohol-free through that whole three months, but I had periods, you know, and and they were encouraged me in that time to experiment. And I was questioning my beliefs, and I was paying more attention to why I drank and what were my triggers and getting experience not drinking and like understanding what that was like for me. And it was amazing, but after 90 days, like, you know, I joke, I like I wasn't fully cooked yet. Like, I still I had gotten so many gains, but I still wasn't really sure what I wanted to do yet. So I drank and I didn't drink and I drank and I didn't drink for the next year. And in that year, I did some one-on-one coaching. I had a therapist too, which for the first time I was actually being honest with my therapist. So I had had therapists in the past, but never would talk about my drinking because I didn't want them to judge me, you know. I didn't want them to think I was a terrible mom. I didn't want so I never really got very far in my therapy because you know, it's all tied up. So um, so for the first time, I like which started to share the real honest truth to the coaches and then to my therapist. And um, yeah, I had a lot of alcohol free time and a lot of drinking time in that year. It was a year of exploration, but it was a year like I felt empowered again, like I was choosing, sort of, like I had a taste of choosing, but I still wasn't free, you know. Um, and then summer came and kind of things went off the rails again. Like I live in northern Michigan in the summertime, and it's like beach and barbecues and patio drinking, and I just started drinking a lot again, but felt so crappy and knew the difference now. And I was like, I I want more of what I was getting before, and that, and so then I joined a year-long path program with this naked mind. And within a couple of months of that program, I had my last drink and and I've been alcohol-free ever since. And, you know, for me, it took a lot of exploration, a lot of experimentation, a lot of back and forth. I I was not convinced I wanted to give up alcohol. I I was not convinced I wanted to give up alcohol until I gave it up, to be honest. Like I was still kind of searching for a way to keep it in my life until I finally recognize that I don't like it in my life. Like my life is so much better without it. But I didn't that that wasn't where I started at all. Like I I fought hard to keep it in my life for a long time. And um, and when I finally like accepted that what if, what if I just you know that question, like, what if your life is better just without it? Is that possible? Because that seemed so impossible. So then I, you know, leaned into that and was like, well, let's find out, you know. So I did a 30-day challenge, which extended to a 60-day challenge, which extended to a hundred days, and then I was like, okay, I'm gonna try six months. And then at six months, I was like, okay, I'm gonna try a year. And then after a year, I was like, Yeah, there's no way in hell I'm going back. This is so much better.

SPEAKER_00 30:05

That's beautiful. So, do you when you had your last drink, you were in the path. Do you remember your last drink? Was it like a this is my last drink, or was it just like a drink that you had and it turned out to be your last?

SPEAKER_01 30:18

I think what happened, I had there was a woman, another woman in the path who's become one of my best friends. And she had reached out to me, she messaged me privately and was just like, because I shared a lot, you know, in coaching calls and in the community feed. Um, she's like, I think that, you know, like, do you want to just take a break together? Because um, you you sound like you're ready to take a break because everything I was saying was like, I kept drinking, but then I was miserable. And so she's like, I kind of want to take a break. Do you want to just like do a few days, you know? Just us, we don't have to make it a big part of the big group, just support each other for a few days. And um, and we we did that, which was amazing, and then we both drank again a little bit, and then we were coming up on a group 30-day challenge in the path. And I I had my last drink like three days before that challenge started because I think I was just like so over it, and I just was like, 'cause my mentality up till then was sort of like, well, drink up until the last minute, babe. Like you may never drink again, right? But I had to get rid of that mentality and just be like, that's a 30-day challenge. I can drink again after that, whatever. And I don't want to wait three days because I'm sick of feeling like shit. And so I didn't know it would be my last drink. No way. Like, I thought it might be my last drink for 30 days, you know, but I had no idea it was gonna be my last drink ever.

SPEAKER_00 31:47

Yeah. I know for me, the experience of figuring out the whole alcohol thing was like deeply understanding myself and the reasons I was drinking and things like that. And um, you mentioned that experience of learning so much about yourself, and especially for those breaks around Thanksgiving and Christmas, and you know, for the whole year um leading up to the summer, which then led into the year-long path. And so, like that whole time, what are some of the things that you learned uh were undergirding your relationship with alcohol?

SPEAKER_01 32:28

Oh gosh, where to begin? I mean, I really felt like alcohol was the thing that was making everything better. You know, I thought it was making my relationships better, my relationship with my husband, my relationship with friends, my relationship with my sister. I thought it made me a better mom, that it made me more relaxed. I mean, it's just it's laughable now that drinking alcohol every day would make me a better mom. But, you know, I convinced myself somehow that it was okay. Um, I had given alcohol so much credit for so many things that it wasn't until I experimented with doing the thing that I believed could not be done without alcohol, and seeing that it was actually the thing that I really liked. Like, and sometimes I would do the thing without alcohol and be like, oh my God, I hate this thing. So it was that kind of a learning. Like, I think I was using alcohol to elevate, I believed I was elevating all the experiences, right? And so to have the discovery that the experience, like, okay, let me just give an example. Like that first Thanksgiving, alcohol-free for me. I remember I had a coaching call and I was like, I just couldn't imagine it that Thanksgiving without alcohol. Like it just did not compute. And and my coach was just like, what do you love about Thanksgiving? And I mean, other than getting to drink at first thing in the morning when I started cooking, like, other than that, Ellen, what do you what do you like about Thanksgiving? And it was like, oh, I love spending time with my girls. I love the food. I love that it's a holiday that actually doesn't revolve around gifts because that's always stressful for me. It's just about food, which I love. You know, I like kind of the playfulness of cooking and dancing around the kitchen with my girls, all these things that I loved. And and my coach was like, Well, what if, you know, what if that's what you love about Thanksgiving? And it's not the fact that you get to drink at 10 a.m. on Thanksgiving. And, you know, I just really played around with that. Like, is that possible? And and then I experienced it. And it it was, I had a whole plan. I had the the AF stuff and the regular stuff. And I was like, he encouraged me to um delay as a tactic. Like, if I normally start drinking at 10 a.m. on Thanksgiving, like just wait until noon and then check in with yourself and see if you want it or need it, and then wait until two and check in with yourself again. And so I just kind of did that all day, and I kept being like, Yeah, I think I'm okay. Like, I don't think I was curious, you know. I wanted to find out, like, could I actually do the, you know? So by the end of it, I didn't have anything to drink and I ended up having a really nice time. Like I felt really connected to my kids. I tasted and enjoyed and remembered the food because I mean the food's the best thing about Thanksgiving. But by the time the food was served, I had already had a bottle plus of wine. So I wasn't even tasting it, and I didn't care about it anymore. I was just like, Where's the wine? You know, so that was kind of, and then I remember going, it was a lot, you know, it's a lot to be with family all day, cooking all day. And so I was kind of tapped out at the end of dinner. And I remember I was like, you know what? I'm gonna go on a walk by myself and decompress. And like that was revelatory for me. Like that I could do that. A, I could like go do something by myself and that that was what I wanted to do. Like it surprised me that that's what I wanted in that moment. And then I remember the next morning waking up and being like, oh my God, it's the day after Thanksgiving, and I'm not hung over. And you know, like and so it was like this experience of like, well, I had a really nice day yesterday, and I feel good this morning. Because for me it was always a trade-off, you know, it was like, okay, I can have a blast of an evening, but the next morning's gonna be ruined. Or if I have something important in the morning, I'm no fun in the evening, right? Like I can't drink too much, so that's no fun. But you know, that's how I equated it. So to have like a good day and a good night and a good morning, it was just like, oh, okay, that like evidence, you know, we talk about data points. That was a humongous data point for me. And it just piqued my curiosity. And I so you know, I had more and more experiences like that, but it wasn't up and to the right, it wasn't like I had that Thanksgiving and it was over. I remember I had a I had like a 45-day streak of alcohol free, and then it was my wedding anniversary, and then I was like, I can't do that without alcohol, you know. Like, so I still very clearly had a belief around like celebration, romance, time with my partner. We got married in Napa, we have special wine, you know. So I had to work through that belief. So I had a lot of beliefs around the importance of alcohol at certain events. I also used alcohol a lot to manage my overwhelm, or I thought it was helping me manage my overwhelm, my exhaustion, my having to push through difficult periods, moments where I really just needed a nap and I didn't feel like I could take a nap. So I would have alcohol to like push through second shift in the evening, you know. And I think one of the things that I realized when I removed alcohol was that I was much less overwhelmed. Like you don't realize that, you know, you think that alcohol is helping you with the overwhelm, but it's actually creating the overwhelm because you're just constantly tired and feeling fragile and you've got so much cognitive dissonance happening in your head. And so yeah, I mean, I countless the number of different beliefs I had to work through. Um, and the identity piece like, who am I if I'm not Ellen, the party girl? Like, where will I belong? Who will like me? Who how I didn't even know what that would look like. So that was scary.

SPEAKER_00 38:39

You mentioned um the when you were working on figuring this whole stuff out and like your you know, years, years, years long trajectory of you know, picking up your first piece of quitlet and and then you know, like going years and years and then you know, tiptoeing around and then finally kind of like finding sober cis and then finding um Annie Grace's work and stuff like that. I'm curious with the like how um how and like did your family notice at Thanksgiving that you weren't partaking in drinking, or like do you know, did people notice that you were kind of um experimenting like you were?

SPEAKER_01 39:20

Yes and no. So I had kind of a unique experience in that when this was all happening, my oldest daughter was at college, and my youngest daughter, it was her senior year in high school, and um we were in the process of moving back from China, but my husband was still finishing his assignment in Shanghai, and my daughter and I were living on our own in Michigan for that year, and so I kind of went under the radar, like I got to do a lot of this experimenting and play without anybody watching or noticing or asking questions, um, which I think really helped me because I was really afraid I was not gonna succeed or I, you know, it wouldn't work. And um, but then like at Thanksgiving, for example, I did. I told, you know, I told that that Thanksgiving, my husband was still in Shanghai, so it was actually just the girls and I. And um, you know, they were, of course, surprised that I wasn't drinking, but it wasn't like they, you know, they were 19 and 17. So although my 19-year-old would have loved to drink with me, I'm sure, um, it wasn't like a really strange thing that I didn't drink on Thanksgiving. And then by the time my husband repatriated back, um, I had already been doing a lot of work on it and had been able to share that I'm really enjoying drinking less, you know. I I and I'm playing around with that, I just feel better. You know, I didn't make a whole big thing about it. I didn't, I never admitted I was in a coaching program where I was asking for help. I was just like, yeah, I'm just wasn't sleeping as well. And I'm just, you know, want to lose some weight and you know, like trying to keep it really loose. Um and because he was never a big drinker, like it wasn't that confronting for him, you know. Like, I mean, it was a little weird when we would go out and I would not have a drink, and he would, but like on the regular, on the daily, I think he was kind of relieved actually, because I was always wanting to open a bottle and he didn't always want to drink. Um, it wasn't until I had a hundred days alcohol free, which was in that year-long path that after I had my last drink, I got to the hundred days that I shared any of this, you know, that I opened up to my husband and I told him I had been drinking a bottle of wine or more a night for years. And I mean, he knew I drank, but he didn't know how much I was suffering with it, and he didn't know the quantity, you know, because I was very careful. I hid bottles, I and like I said, he worked a lot at night. So, like we would have a glass at dinner, or I would have a glass at dinner. He didn't usually, but I always did. But then he would go off on calls, and I think he probably just assumed I stopped after dinner, you know, because I wasn't like an obnoxious drunk. I I was a pretty tame drunk. Um, but so I think it was a real surprise, you know, and when I and I told my kids too, and we've had a lot of conversations about it since. And of course, they know I'm doing this podcast, and so they've learned all about it, but they were also shocked, like they were and and it was, you know, it's been so sweet, actually, because they were just like, we had no idea how how much you were suffering, right? And which privately makes me so happy because that is what I was trying so hard to do. I didn't want anybody to know. But that not wanting anybody to know just kept me so isolated and alone.

SPEAKER_00 43:00

Yeah. Um, oh my gosh, so relatable. Like, I I mean, my wife certainly knew that I was drinking a lot, but she didn't know that I was in such torment and turmoil over it, right? Like because for her, she'd have just been like, well, don't do it anymore. We're like, well, that's the point. Like that's it's really hard not to. Um, so what is what do you feel like has sh changed or shifted in your like the the relationship dynamic now that everything about this is like on Front Street?

SPEAKER_01 43:37

Oh my god, it's everything. I mean, for someone who wore a mask, like many masks, for so long, to actually take the masks off and share who I am and what I'm experiencing, and to receive acceptance and Love and uh, you know, uh through the coaching program first, like that's really where I practiced it. And that's why I think it's so important for people to find community. Because, like you said with your wife, me with Chris, it's not like it's not like they have bad intentions, but they because they don't drink like you and I drank, they don't un how can they understand? I mean, if Chris was drinking too much, he'd just cut back. Like it wouldn't be, he he wasn't in the same cycle I was in. And so to be able to be surrounded by people that get it and that know how hard it is, and that that's where I got my my legs, that's where I got my feet to be able to share openly, which allowed me then to share with my most intimate people and and and then to to have faith that they would not turn away, you know, because the people in the community that I had joined did not turn away. And it's the most healing thing that I've ever experienced, to be honest. Like to be able to put down the masks and to be able to fully be myself and to be loved and accepted for who I am. And that's been such a huge part of my journey. And we've talked about this before, but it's like I I think so much of my drinking was I got so much of my self-worth and validation from presenting as okay, from making sure that all the people that I loved were okay. And to be able to like actually be okay without needing that, like being able to show my scars and wounds and all the things and to and to know that I'm okay, like that has been the work of, you know, that I did in in the path and the work that I did with coaches and the work that I do with people now, because you know, we don't we're drinking for a reason, right? There's there's something underneath that we're trying to fill with alcohol. Like there's what we all have some kind of hole, and our holes might be originate from different places, but we're all looking to fill that hole with something. And in in my case, it was alcohol. It could be gambling, it could be sugar, it could be porn, it could be scrolling, but my thing was alcohol. And um, and so doing the work to learn and understand and and and get the I don't know, like the trust that I'm okay just as I am. You know, I don't have to be perfect, I don't have to present like everything's okay. That that's bullshit anyway. In fact, now that I'm on the other side of it, I'm like, how boring is it when you meet people that look like they have everything okay? Like, no, thank you. I'll take a pass, right? I'd much rather talk to the people that are flawed and willing to talk about it. Like, that's interesting to me now. Um, but yeah, that self-work, that work on like, and you know, a lot of that stuff originates in childhood, but we don't always have to go back and like do the deep therapy in the childhood. We can just be like, okay, I understand where it came from. I can see how it's showing up now, and what are the tools and the things I can do now to make myself, you know, feel okay. And and that was transformative for me. And I spent all in all, I mean, and then after my two years with the path, I signed up for the coach training program because I just wanted more and more and more. Like I just love this exploration of self. And um, it's been so healing and transformative for me.

SPEAKER_00 47:44

Yeah, um, that's a perfect segue to my next question. So, like you you get this time under your belt, like you, you know, are in the middle of the path, and you're like, you know what, that's my last drink. I, you know, I'm I'm stacking these days. And uh at what point do you start thinking, like, oh, I, you know, could do this coaching thing? And like, why? So I guess my first question is uh when did coaching as an option for you come up? And um and and why?

SPEAKER_01 48:14

I wasn't allowed to drive in China. So I was given a driver and we had um taxis and metro. So six years where I didn't have to drive. So, I mean, how many people use driving as somewhat of a guardrail? If you know you have to drive your kid to soccer practice, you're probably gonna plan your drinks around when you get home. Well, I never had to drive, so I could plan my drinks for before soccer practice. It didn't matter. So my drinking was amped up and I knew it was a problem. And I thought, okay, I need some purpose. I need something meaningful in my life. Maybe that's the trick, right? This was one of my things that I tried to stop drinking. So I had already, back in Michigan, had done a similar idea, had done a master's in counseling program. I almost finished that entire program right before we moved to China. And then we got to China and I couldn't finish that program, but I was like, okay, I really like that work. So I signed up to do a life coaching certification, which was great, amazing. I loved it. I love both of those programs. Um, but I never completed it because I just I never got the traction. Like, you know, it was like, I mean, I was drinking all the time. And um, so then when I went through the path program and got all that coaching, and I was saw how transformative it was for myself and the people in my cohort. And these coaches were like idols to me. Like I thought they were amazing. And then, you know, realizing that I could become one was incredible. So it's even before I finished my second path here, um, I signed on to train to become a coach. And my biggest fear around coaching was exactly this what we're doing right now. I'm like, I really want to help people. I know I could help people because I've lived it and it, I know what worked for me. I know what worked for other people. I know I can share this. I've got all this training, I'm passionate about it. But oh my God, I don't want to have to say out loud how much I was drinking. You know, like that was my stumbling block. Like, how am I gonna help people if I'm not willing to talk about my experience? And um, so that was a big stumbling block to get over. Um, you know, I'm putting together my website was like, okay, like, am I gonna really put it out there on the web that I was drinking a bottle of wine a night for anyone in the world to see? My biggest, most shameful secret. So, and that's been liberating, actually. Like you said, like, how has been with my relationships? Uh, like that's a whole nother level. Like now it's just like anybody and everybody can know exactly my story. And I mean, doing this is another level too. Like, I've never fully shared all of this before. Certainly not recorded to be shared out in the world. Um, but I just I feel so passionately about it because if people that had come before me had not done it, if I hadn't heard those podcasts, if I hadn't read Annie Grace's book, if sober sis hadn't popped up on my Instagram, I would still be stuck. I would still be in that really terrible spiral, believing I was alone. And, you know, sometimes it's easy to think, especially for people in this sober, curious space like we are now, like, oh, everybody knows about this, right? Like there's so many voices. What do you and I have to offer that's different than what everybody else is saying? But I just then you go out in the world and you realize that everybody's still drinking and everybody still believes that alcohol or yeah, AA is the only option. I mean, these different modalities, these different frameworks, this different way to approach relationships with alcohol, I feel like it's still so. I mean, this could be a revelatory conversation for someone. I this hearing my story might be the first time somebody ever hears themselves in a story. And so that's why I'm doing it because God, if people hadn't done it before me, I would still be stuck.

SPEAKER_00 52:14

It's like this whole healing process with figuring out alcohol is extraordinarily challenging. But it's like in the direction of our greatest fears and the greatest like things that we're reluctant to do is like that's the path of our greatest healing, right? And so being able to like bear your heart like this, to share your story, and that being like abject terror for you, but facing that down and being on the other side of it with the kind of like the purity of intention that you're bringing to it, and the um, you know, the the genuine hope that somebody's going to recognize themselves in your story and start to get this thing figured out and discover the whole beautiful life that's waiting for them. Like that's it's a I don't know, it's just beautiful, and it's this work is so important. Ellen, so you're coaching now. What's that like? Um, and what's it like to work with you? And what kind of people do you typically coach?

SPEAKER_01 53:26

Oh, it's amazing. It's um for me, it's amazing. I I I find that most of the people that are drawn to me are people that see their my themselves in my story, you know. I I do coach a lot of women, although I I I do coach men as well. Um usually it's people that are also look like they have everything together on the outside and they're quietly falling apart on the inside. I mean, I think that that story right there is um is probably the most shared um among my clients. Um I mean I love I love one-on-one because we get to like really dig into like you know, the really individual things that are going on and and providing you know, I get the chance to provide that really intense one-on-one support that you know sometimes people really need to get through the hump and to take those first few days alcohol-free or to commit to staying alcohol free. I I offer a high-touch coaching program where I, you know, I'm available on the daily. I I send, you know, videos and we have you know weekly calls generally, which I just love. And then I also because I got such a benefit from like group community coaching, I also have a small group and I'm actually in the process of building a more of a like a membership community where you can just join monthly for as long as you know it's beneficial for you. Because I want to create a space where people can feel seen and understood and share their experience and not feel alone. That is such a big part of my story that I just felt so alone. And when I first had that recognition that there were other people like me, that helped shed so much of my shame and started the process of healing for me. And there's also so much I didn't know. I I didn't know things about alcohol, I didn't know how it worked in my body. I didn't, I didn't understand that I had all these beliefs that came from society or or, you know, my upbringing or advertising or, you know, I didn't, I didn't know I could question these things. And so I love doing that and in groups with people so everyone can share their experience and feel seen and understood and heard and a part of something because it's really low, it can be really lonely work, especially if you are working on your relationship with alcohol and the people in your life are not. So we need we need places where we can show up and authentically, you know, go through this stuff together.

SPEAKER_00 56:16

Totally. Um, Ellen, if somebody wanted to learn more about you or get in touch with you, uh, where's the best place for them to do that?

SPEAKER_01 56:25

Um, my website, which is Ellenbiggscoaching.com. You and I have this podcast, obviously. So if you um listen to more episodes, you'll get more of a vibe of what I'm about and what it might be like to work with me.

SPEAKER_00 56:38

Last question. If you could go back in time to yourself when you were drinking more than you wanted to and uh finding yourself unable to stop, what message would you have for past Ellen?

SPEAKER_01 56:50

I it's so hard, you know, because I don't know what I would have heard at that point. I don't know, but I think what I would have wanted to know is that there is a way out. There is hope. Like you don't have to be so afraid. You you you don't have to fear life without alcohol. It's actually flipping amazing, like best kept secret ever. I thought it was gonna be this dreadful thing, which is why I was so afraid to move towards it. And turns out it's I mean, we didn't even get to talk about this, but we talk about this on the podcast all the time. But just life is so much better. I'm so much more peaceful, I'm so much happier. I I have more energy, I have I'm excited about life again. I, you know, I'm not having any of this cognitive dissonance. I just have a beautiful life and I'm enjoying my beautiful life instead of wondering why I can't enjoy it. And yeah, so I would just want her to know that there is an alternative way to AA. There's hope, it's possible, and it's worth it.

SPEAKER_00 57:55

I think it's a beautiful message, Ellen. Um, thank you for sharing your story and your entire journey. And I know that it's going to resonate with so many people. Um, and it's it's brave work doing this and talking about this, but it's the it that's what it takes. That's what it takes, right? Like, I mean, it it makes it makes other people. It certainly made me in the past feel less alone. And when we feel less alone, we're more able to be brave ourselves. And um, I just admire your bravery and your vulnerability. And I'm feeling so grateful that we get to do this podcast together and to be in such wonderful company.

SPEAKER_01 58:40

Thank you. And likewise, and it's so as you were saying that, I was just making me think like when I was drinking every day, like what I wanted was the easy button. I wanted things to be easy. That's all I wanted. And it was because I was so flipping fragile all the time, you know. I was so fragile from drinking every day. And now that I'm not drinking every day, like easy's okay, but it's kind of like I know that that's not where growth is. Like it's not where, you know, like hard or challenging or scary is a lot more interesting to me now, you know. And I can't do it all the time, obviously, but it's like I I'm I orient more towards that now, you know. Easy's just kind of, yeah, well, whatever.

SPEAKER_00 59:25

It's the edge, right? Like let's go into the unknown.

SPEAKER_01 59:29

Um this was definitely an edge for me today, Jonathan. So thank you for bringing me to my edge.

SPEAKER_00 59:36

Absolutely. Um well, thank you all for joining us uh and for listening to Ellen's story. If any part of it resonated with you, we'd love to hear about it. You can email us at thealcoholmyth at gmail.com. And if you uh want to learn more about Ellen or get in touch with her about coaching, Ellen Biggscoaching.com is the best place to do that. Uh, we've been the Alcohol Myth Podcast. We're putting out new episodes every single Monday. And uh we'd love for you to let us know what you think. You know, uh rock us a comment and uh leave us a rating. And uh we look forward to continuing to do this vulnerable work.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:21

Yes, thank you. Thank you all for listening to my very vulnerable story. And we'll see you next week.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:30

Thanks for listening to the Alcohol Myth Podcast.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:33

If this episode sparked something for you, we'd love to hear about it.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:36

Send your questions, stories, or ideas for future episodes to thealcoholmyth at gmail.com.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:43

We read every message. We really do.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:45

Take good care of yourself. We'll see you next time.