Why Quitting Feels Like Losing a Friend Artwork

The Alcohol Myth Podcast

The Alcohol Myth Podcast features certified coaches Ellen and Jonathan having real conversations about alcohol, sobriety, and reclaiming a life that feels exciting to wake up to.

All Episodes

The Alcohol Myth Podcast

Why Quitting Feels Like Losing a Friend

May 11, 2026 • Ellen and Jonathan

0:00 | 45:47

Have you ever thought of alcohol as your “most reliable friend”?

In this episode of The Alcohol Myth Podcast, coaches Jonathan Ball and Ellen Biggs unpack a surprisingly common belief: alcohol as the dependable, always-there friend. We talk about why that story feels true, what it is masking underneath (needs, loneliness, celebration, comfort), and how alcohol becomes a predictable substitute for real connection.

This is an episode about self-trust, self-compassion, and learning how to be there for yourself, especially when life gets hard.

In this video, you’ll learn:
- Why quitting can feel like leaving a friend behind
- “Reliable” vs “predictable”: what alcohol actually does every time
- How alcohol becomes the Swiss Army knife solution for emotions and events
- Why celebration gets hijacked by alcohol and what you actually want instead
- The control trap: why alcohol feels safer than real relationships
- How distraction keeps you from knowing what you need
- A practical exercise: define “best friend,” then compare it to alcohol

Quick takeaway:
Alcohol can be predictable, but it cannot be a friend. If you want real support, you build it through self-knowledge, quiet, and connection with people who can meet you there.

Tiny FAQ:
Q: What if alcohol really is the only thing that helps me relax?
A: That is a common belief. This episode is about running a new experiment and building other sources of relief and connection.

Q: What do I do when I feel a blank space without it?
A: Start small. Replace the ritual with podcasts, quit lit, and community while you build real support.

Connect with us:
Email: thealcoholmyth@gmail.com
Jonathan: https://livecreativeaf.com/
Ellen: https://ellenbiggscoaching.com/

Subscribe for more episodes on pulling back the curtain on the alcohol myth.

Chapters
0:00 When the noise of alcohol goes quiet
1:12 Why quitting feels like leaving a friend behind
2:01 “How do I be my own best friend?”
3:39 Alcohol as the always-there “friend”
5:05 The Swiss Army knife myth: drink for everything
6:24 “Reliable” vs “predictable”
7:30 Celebration without alcohol: what do you actually want?
10:39 Outsourcing connection to a substance
12:22 Vulnerability and the “safer” option
14:23 Stop letting yourself down: learning self-support
17:44 The Stoic takeaway: what is truly yours to steward?
23:47 Distraction and avoiding being with yourself
25:35 Discernment: turning inward and learning to love what’s there
35:31 Going against the grain in a culture that sells numbness
38:10 The influence of your environment and the people closest to you
39:48 Finding replacements: quit lit, podcasts, and community
41:58 The Best Friend Test: write it down and compare it to alcohol
43:23 Practical close: try quiet, then get curious

#AlcoholFree #SoberCurious #QuitDrinking #AlcoholMythPodcast #ThisNakedMind #SelfCompassion #HabitChange #PersonalGrowth

SPEAKER_02 0:00

When we remove the noise of alcohol in our lives, the constant, you know, hey, this would be a little bit better with a drink, or wouldn't, you know, you'd like to take the edge off, or you're bored. So how can you distract yourself? When all that goes quiet, your capacity for turning within and learning what's there, and then learning to love what's there is so much more increased. Why does the world act like alcohol is the answer, even while it is creating problems of its own?

SPEAKER_00 0:37

On the alcohol myth podcast, we pull back the curtain so you can see what's really going on with alcohol and what life could be like without it.

SPEAKER_02 0:44

We are coaches trained in this naked mind and effective liminal psychology who fell for the alcohol myth for decades. Now we help people take back control of their lives by changing their relationship with alcohol from the inside out.

SPEAKER_00 0:56

You don't need to wait for a rock bottom. You don't need more willpower, you just need a new way to understand what you are feeling and why you are reaching for that next drink.

SPEAKER_02 1:04

So let's dig in.

SPEAKER_01 1:12

Yeah, it makes me think about, you know, when I started this talking about is alcohol your friend? And when I when I started this journey of questioning my relationship with alcohol, it's really hard to leave a friend behind when you have nothing to replace it with. And I had nothing to replace it with. And you know what ended up replacing it for me was podcasts like this. Podcast was quitlit, was joining an online free community where people were talking about this, was you know, just reading books and articles about, you know, finding online spaces because I didn't, I was not comfortable talking to people in my real life yet. I didn't know where I was going with this. I didn't know what I was doing. I just knew I was pressed. Oh gosh. Okay, so this came up for me um in conversation with someone that um she was going through a really hard time. Her mom is dying, she's in her late 90s, her mom. And she, this friend was sharing that um, like when times are good, she's pretty good at taking care of herself. She's pretty good at asking for what she needs, all the things. But in really hard times, when you know the shit hits the fan, it's really hard. And um, and she posed the question I how do I learn to be my own best friend? Because I really want to be able to be there for me when no one else can. And it just really got me thinking this idea that how I for so long, I think when I wasn't getting my needs met, when I didn't know how to ask for what I wanted or needed, uh alcohol was the handy dandy, like in the refrigerator, I could open the door, and it would it would give me that like little dopamine rush feeling of feeling relief or feeling good, or maybe feeling just better. And and I called that like, ugh, I can just rely on alcohol. She's always there, you know. But but what I think I was doing in all those years was just masking over the the my real true like yearnings and needs and and wants. And um and it just got me like you know, I used I called alcohol my best friend, like, you know, I mean, maybe not out loud to anybody, because that's kind of embarrassing, but it was like I, you know, and that's why I was so afraid to give her up because it's like, well, what am I gonna do without her? She's the only one that's always there. And and I just like I've been starting to realize like that idea of alcohol being a friend, it's like, would a friend like give you the leftover stale end parts of the bread and be like, be happy with that, isn't that good? Or, you know, would a friend really want to get to know me and what's going on and understand how I want and need to be supported? And so I just I wanted to talk about this because I think that it's pretty common to think about alcohol as our most reliable handy-dandy friend. And I think what is underneath that is a real longing for true connection with self first and people that we love and that love us. And people try and be good friends sometimes, but and they just don't know how because we don't know what, you know, like we're it it, yeah. Anyway, I'm gonna stop talking because that's a lot. But um, that's why I wanted to talk about this because it's just like it really hit a nerve in me.

SPEAKER_02 4:56

There's so many entry points um for what you're describing. You said like alcohol is our handy dandy friend. And that's how that's certainly how I looked at alcohol for so long, right? Like um, alcohol, the everything drink, where I'm I'm sad, let me drink about it. I'm bored, let me drink about it. I need to relax, let me drink about it. I want to connect, let me drink about it. I'm happy, let me drink about it. We're celebrating, let me drink about it. It was the Swiss Army knife solution for whatever life was presenting to me. And I look back at that now and I'm so sad for myself that that was my go-to for so long. Because that Swiss Army knife solution, alcohol, the everything drink, like it really did take the highs and the lows and just put this layer of sameness and uh routine to the experience of life. And that's I've I've come to realize that life is so much richer on the other side of it. Uh alcohol, you know, we tell ourselves stories about what it can do and what it can't do. And uh we tell ourselves stories about how it shows up for us, it's reliable. And I guess the only like the kernel of truth in looking at alcohol as like your reliable friend is that alcohol can only ever do what it does. It's just a chemical substance that's interacting with our body in a very predictable way, and that's it, right? But then I think things get tricky when we add and on top of that substance, all these other stories about what it is, what it does, how it shows up, and things like that.

SPEAKER_01 6:49

Yeah, I mean, I love how you said alcohol, like switch out word reliable to predictable. I mean, yeah, we know exactly what we're gonna get. But the thing is, we we fool ourselves by thinking, oh no, that it's giving me something more than it's giving me. Like we, we, we, we convince ourselves. I was convinced. I mean, one of the so I started to think about like, when I'm reaching for alcohol for, and we can do, we can run, we could do 10 episodes on this. When I'm reaching for alcohol to be my friend when I'm sad, what am I reaching for? When I'm reaching for alcohol to be my friend when I'm excited and happy and celebratory. So I want to stick with this one, that the happy, excited, celebratory. When I'm reaching for alcohol, when I feel like I want to celebrate something, and alcohol was so intertwined with that belief that it wasn't a celebration without alcohol. I needed alcohol. Alcohol was going to elevate the experience, right? This is what we think. If this is good, alcohol will make it better. It'll make it more special, it'll make it more. And what when I started to look at, like ask myself the question, like Ellen, when you want to celebrate something that you are happy about, you feel good about, you're like, let's just take a birthday. It's my birthday. I want to celebrate. I want to be celebrated, right? I think that's important to acknowledge that too. And and and I think I I thought celebration equaled, somebody will show up with a nice bottle of champagne and they'll take me out to a nice restaurant. And that felt like celebration to me, right? That but when I think about it now, I'm like, what does what what would it feel? What would it mean to me to be like if I were really wanting to be celebrated, to celebrate? What is it that I'm wanting? And like if I'm honest about it, if I take away the superficial buy me a bottle of something and take me out for a restaurant, what I want more than anything is for somebody to to see me, to, to acknowledge me, to appreciate me, to care for me, to to notice maybe me. It's something that I'm, you know, have you ever gotten a gift from somebody or somebody wrote you a letter and it like it really touched you because it was like so explicit, like, you know, you make me feel a certain way, or like I appreciate you so much for X, Y, Z things. Like that is what I think I'm looking for when I'm wanting to be celebrated, you know. If somebody brings me a bottle of something, it has nothing to do with me, except maybe it's my favorite bottle, but you know, like it's a it just it's like it's turns on its head for me, this idea of, or not doesn't turn on its head, it makes me look at for the very first time, like, what do I want when I'm wanting to celebrate? And it is a specialness. I do want it to be a day that is more special than any other day, right? And what's the most surefire thing to make it like every other day is to consume the same substance I have every other day and tell myself that because it's got a different label on it, it's special. It's like such a freaking cop-out of for life, right? Like if I want to have a special experience or a special day, it's not doing the same thing I do every other day, but with a different lay. I don't know. I just when I started to think about it, I'm like, oh my God, I just was cheated out of specialness for years, thinking I was getting it, you know.

SPEAKER_02 10:31

Yeah. It makes me think about like if we stick with this idea of celebration and like alcohol is the friend that's reliable, kind of blending the two. It makes me think of how like when you are wanting to celebrate, you're wanting that acknowledgement, that recognition, that experience of being seen from the people in your life. And when we think about alcohol as our friend, we're kind of like outsourcing that connection that we're wanting to experience with other people to a drink, to a substance. And the tricky thing is that we can control that substance and we don't have that same level of control over the people in our life, right? Like I can think about times where I've wanted to be seen, acknowledged, celebrated, recognized, you know, XYZ thing from other people. And my narrative was kind of that other people might let me down, but alcohol never would. Alcohol will see me through whatever, right? Like, or I might not be recognized, seen, appreciated, whatever. I might not be getting what I feel like I want from other people, but I know what I'm getting with alcohol. I can control my relationship with alcohol. Please hear the scare quotes and control um my relationship with alcohol. Um, and I know what alcohol is going to give me. Alcohol doesn't let me down. People let me down. Uh, I think that's probably on a t-shirt somewhere. And it's such a uh it's it's a it's unfortunate because it really comes down to this element of control, like in an actual friendship and an actual relationship of any kind, right? We are sacrificing our feeling of control and kind of anteing up, we're like putting into the the pot um vulnerability, we're putting ourselves at risk in some way. Um, but and then for that reward of genuine connection, and alcohol doesn't ask us to do that. So alcohol seems to be this like safer option for us when we're trying to get our needs met. And alcohol isn't, I mean, alcohol presents itself as if it's not messy, and people and real relationships and the real connection can be messy. And so it's like here's the facsimile of actual connection. Uh, and it doesn't require you to be open and honest, it doesn't require you to put yourself forward, it doesn't require you to be vulnerable or experience disappointment. You know, here's the facsimile of that.

SPEAKER_01 13:29

Yes, I mean, so true. And and I think that this is where we ugh, like two things I want to say about that. Like, one is Yeah, we and we can keep getting the predictable, reliable, shitty consolation prize of what alcohol can offer, right? I mean, that yeah, that I know that's what I did for a year. Like, yeah, that's totally an option until we decide for ourselves that we want more, that we feel like we deserve more. And this is such an important piece of it too, because I feel like yes, people will let us down 100%. I mean, that's just human life, right? But you know what? You know who doesn't who the where we do have control about ourselves, right? Like this was the question that originally got posed. Like, how do I learn to be my own best friend? Well, how do I learn to stop letting myself down? How do I learn to start just investigating, understanding my own unmet, unsaid to myself even needs, wants, cravings, interests. You know, like we we I think we um I recently heard someone talking about outsourcing emotions. Like we we outsource to alcohol, to other people the ability to give us a feeling that we want, right? Like I'm gonna feel love because my partner's going to love me. And it's like when we whenever we do that, we lose control. And I'm not saying we never want to do that. Of course, we want to be vulnerable to be able to experience the love of another person. And like when we're really, really honest, the only person that can we can control whether if that love is fleeting or not fleeting, like it doesn't, you know, we can do all the things and somebody might stop loving us. But we have the ownership, the responsibility that we get to learn and practice to love ourselves, to give ourselves the thing. And I think that's what's been such a like mind-boggling blowing uh discovery for me along this journey is not only was I outsourcing my emotional well-being to other people, but definitely to alcohol, right? This substance that beat me up day after day after day. And I just kept being like, oh, but I mean, I I loved that first 20 minutes. Like it's worth it being miserable just so I can have that first 20 minutes. I mean, it's so sad when I look at it now, but I really felt like that was as good as it got. And and I think it's only through, yeah, this investigation, like, what do you really want? Because I say what I want to be celebrated. If I asked you, you might have different wants, needs, desires, things that you want to do. Like it really is a self-inquiry.

SPEAKER_02 16:39

Self-inquiry part, I think takes a level of I don't know, I guess, self-honesty that a lot of us do a lot of work to avoid. I know I did for years and years and years. And I think that was probably part of why I was drinking way more than I wanted to at the end of the day, is that I was constantly trying to make myself fit into the box that I thought that other people needed me to fit into. And it took doing this work and getting alcohol free and engaging in that self-inquiry, that self-honesty, uh, for me to even recognize that. And then it was also another big step to take responsibility for my own internal state and who I am and for taking care of myself. I was reading some stoicism last night. It made me think of this conversation. I think it was Marcus Aurelius. I think that was like, you know, three things are yours, your body, your breath, and your mind. But of these three, the third is the only one that's truly yours because the first two are only yours as long as you're as long as they're working or something, right? Like your breath and your body, like eventually our bodies might betray us. You know, we might suffer some kind of chronic condition, we might, you know, we're going to fall apart, the breath is going to stop, right? One day. But the mind is something that's truly yours. And when you recognize that for the incredible responsibility that that is, that it's it's up to me to see to my mindset. It's up to me to take ownership of my thoughts, feelings, actions, getting my needs met, all of that. It's incredibly humbling. It it and it's certainly I I found it at first like overwhelming, but at the end, it is an incredibly empowering place to be. Like I have needs, and I am learning how to be the person that meets those needs. And you know, sometimes my needs involve other people or connection or community or things like that. And when that's the case, now I have the tools, the mindset, the wherewithal to ask myself first, what can I do to be the kind of person that is in connection and community? And uh like it takes to have great friends, it takes being a great friend, right? So you can only control one side of that equation. Where are you gonna spend your time and energy? Are you gonna spend your time and energy, you know, bemoaning that you don't have friends that come and show you or show up for you the way that you want to, or are you going to spend your time focusing on how you can be the friend that other great friends want to be around, right? That self-responsibility is an enormous consequence of all this alcohol freedom work, and it's it's life-changing.

SPEAKER_01 20:08

It's so true. And I think about like my own journey with friendship. I mean, the more I show up in the ways that I want to be shown up for instead of the ways I think other people want to be shown up for. Like if I really think about okay, how would I want to receive love or connection or appreciation and I sh and I and I show up that way, you know what happens is you end up attracting people that are also able to give and receive in the ways that you prefer to give and receive, right? Because there's no there's nothing wrong. If you prefer something different than me, there's nothing wrong with that. But ultimately, like you might not be able to meet the need that I have of seeing me in a in how I want to be seen, right? And so like it it's just what's so I think beautiful about the journey of like getting in touch with more and more of ourself, like who really am I, what are my preferences, what does light me up is that we just naturally then gravitate towards and and other people gravitate towards us that share that same energy and light, you know? And and I think that there's a period of trust, mistrust and fear, you know, in this alcoholic journey. It's like, well, I'm giving up this very reliable, predictable way that I know how to get a certain feeling, and that feels like friendship. And when I take it away, and we don't, we haven't yet built. The friendships that actually can make us feel get that natural dopamine rush of being seen and validated and honored and appreciated and loved, then there's like this blank space in between while we're building that. And that can feel terrifying. And it can feel like maybe it's not worth it. I should just stick with my old reliable predictable, you know, frenemy over here, alcohol. But like having the trust and and and and bridging, you know, maybe bridging the friendships that you have with others with a growing and developing friendship for self. Because we can, I mean, of course, I might prefer to be in the company of others, but if I can be content with myself, that's a whole different ballgame, right? Like preferences are fine. I might prefer large groups, small groups, whatever. But the comfort of like knowing that I am okay just here on my own, because this is the literally only thing I can control unless I'm gonna like shackle somebody to to my side, right? Like it's that I think that is so important to investigate. Like, what does make this person feel seen, validated, heard, understood? And that's just for the celebration piece. Like, what does this person need me? Meaning me, Ellen, what do I need when I'm sad? Do I want someone to cheer me up? Do I want someone to sit beside me and just let me cry? Do I want someone to hold me? Do I want to be left alone? Like, I hadn't even really investigated this. So if I don't fully know what I want or need, how can I even ask for it? And you certainly can't ask for it of alcohol, right? Because alcohol is going to give you the same damn thing every single time. And there's no nuance there.

SPEAKER_02 23:46

Mm-hmm. Yeah. With that self-knowledge thing, it makes me think about what is required to get into a place where you can be in that inquisitive questioning mind. And when you can start to ask yourself, like, what do I want? How do I want to be celebrated? What do I want when I'm sad and all that stuff, right? Like it really takes being able to take a beat and spend some time inside and with yourself. And I think that there are so many things pulling at our attention 24 hours in the day, that we are well, we're certainly spoiled for choice when it comes to distraction. Even setting aside alcohol for a moment, right? Like I was working with a client who was so distant from herself that even the idea of taking a walk in nature without listening to a podcast was something that she was just recoiling against. And you know whether it's listening to a podcast while you're taking a walk in nature or it's self-obliterating, sitting on the couch, drinking whiskey and playing video games, right? Like what you're doing is distancing yourself from yourself. And that makes getting to know what you actually want and being able to grow in your own capacity to like acknowledge, let alone articulate those needs and those wants, um, it makes it quite impossible. I guess another word that keeps coming to mind for me too is discernment. Like when we remove the noise of alcohol in our lives and the constant, you know, hey, this would be a little bit better with a drink, or wouldn't, you know, you'd like to take the edge off, or you're bored. So how can you distract yourself? When all that goes quiet, your capacity for turning within and learning what's there, and then learning to love what's there is so much more increased.

SPEAKER_01 26:12

I think that's such a good point because we are bombarded with messaging and messages and and social media and images and movies and TVs and billboards and of what society wants to sell us are the answers to how do you want to celebrate? I mean, I if I put in how do I want to celebrate in a Google search engine or something, it's gonna give me a bunch of different images, ideas. I could, you know, I might survey my friends. Like the thing is the and I I mean, I bought this hook, line, and sinker, right? Like, what is sold celebration? You know, jewelry, gifts from a partner. That's love. Uh you know, champagne and a fancy night out, beautiful, magical, sunset. I don't know, whatever the images are that we all are inundated with 247. Or maybe it's like I get to, I don't know, whatever the thing that your particular feed on Instagram is feeding you because that's the kind of things that you pay attention to. Suddenly we're getting everybody else's ideas of what it means or what we should want, what is societally approved to be important or to care about, or you know, so it can actually feel counter-cultural to get quiet and and get in touch with and and completely foreign, by the way, completely unfamiliar. When I sat down to do this exercise, like what do I really want when I am when I want to be celebrated? It's like you have to weed through all the images. Like you have to, like, it's literally, and it's it's like what we talk about with the alcohol. There's like a superhighway in our brain that tells us exactly what it looks like, and to like leave that superhighway and to go out and like, you know, with your what do you call that thing that you slash things in the woods, like machete machete and try and break down a new path of something that actually is uniquely specially something that is important to me. And by the way, it's probably not that unique and special. It's probably all comes down to these like human things of love and belonging and connection that we all want. But how my my preferred way of getting those things, like that can feel really not just unfamiliar to do the self-exploration, like you said, but like how do we even get quiet enough, give ourselves enough space and distance from the messaging to disentangle what we've been told with what we really believe and feel.

SPEAKER_02 28:52

It makes me think about the messages that we see, right? Like if I do a Google search for people celebrating, guarantee I'm gonna see uh New Year's toasts, I'm gonna see champagne flutes, I'm gonna see alcohol and every image. Alcohol in every image. And I run into this too, because as I make resources for my clients and things like that, like I like to include images and stuff like that. And I'm I'm searching up, you know, like friends hanging out, right? And it's hard to find images that don't feature, let's all grab a pint, right? Um, and then other stuff too. So, like it's not only alcohol, but also think about what the messages that you're being sold on your Instagram and Facebook feeds and things like that. Like, what does it take to be happy, wealthy, successful, connected, popular, XYZ, whatever marker of success you're chasing? Well, we've got something that we can sell you that's going to give you that. And I think in our society, right, like we're constantly being sold that this XYZ thing, this this product, this experience, you know, if you go to Bali, then you've made it. If you go to a biza, then you've made it. If you have XYZ watch or car, or you buy this kind of alcohol, then you've made it. And every single one of those things is a facsimile of what you're actually looking for, which is the sense of accomplishment or a sense of connection or a sense of celebration or whatever. And all of that bullshit can't give you the feeling that you're looking for if you haven't cultivated your ability to feel the feeling that you're looking for, right? Like, I can't tell you how I used to do this all the time, like, not even to mention the people I work with, but like I would say, okay, when XYZ thing happens, when I reach this milestone, when I get this item, when I go on this trip, then I'm going to feel amazing or whatever I'm trying to feel, right? And then what happens? You reach that milestone, you hit that goal, you go on that trip, you acquire that item, and then what do you feel? Disappointment. Because that item cannot give you what you haven't cultivated your ability to experience and feel, because that all comes from here, it all comes from inside self. And the thing is, we don't see that. That's not like the popular message. That's not, you know, what's on your Instagram feeds and your Facebook ads and all that, because you can't monetize it. That's the thing. You can't put a dollar amount on it. I can't sell you a thing that's gonna be like, ah, well, all you need is yourself and a little bit of time and a little bit of quiet, and you can start doing this stuff. I guess it doesn't sell.

SPEAKER_01 32:01

No, I know. And it just it makes me think about like how you know, and we we talk about this a lot and we coach people on this, and I try and live this, and I get swept up too. Like it's just it's everywhere. I was thinking about this, like there's a lady that's been popping up in my Instagram feed now because I a lot of my things are around recipes and health and eating more protein, and and she's you know, she's probably like 25. She's got this great body, right? And she's got me thinking about like, oh, if I just did, you know, and then I caught myself being like, and then what? Like, Ellen, what if you got like your perfect image of what your body would look like? Would that feel good? Like, would that how would that feel? And what I realized is like there was an instant of like, ah, yes. And then I was like, oh God, then I would have to like work out every single day to keep it. And I would never be able to eat geek cake without like having so much guilt and worrying that I'd have to then starve myself the next day. It's like even when we, or you know, you say, Oh, if I get a million dollars, well, oh my God, but then what if I lose it? Or what if now my my tastes are gonna get a little bit more expensive? And then maybe if a million dollars isn't gonna be enough, and then maybe I'm gonna need two million dollars. You know, it's like it's filling when it's filling something, when we're trying to fill whatever emptiness is inside us with something external, it's never enough. It's never gonna be enough because it's so fleeting and it's so precarious and it's so external to us, like getting back to this idea of being our own best friend, like I think my best friend would tell me don't look outside yourself for what you could look inside for, right? Like and because how long have we been doing that? And how we're like the most unhappy, most addicted society ever. The more things that we're given, the more abundance that's around us, it just is making things worse, not better. It's like uh but it's so easy to fall into that trap because we're just we're swimming in it.

SPEAKER_02 34:17

Yeah, the when you live in a there's this concept in biology that when you live in an area that is going to give you disease, like if you just if living in a certain place r means that you're going to get sick. So if you live in near Chernobyl, right, you're living in an environment that is not conducive to health. You have to actively work against that environment to not fall into ill health, right? It makes sense. So it's like that with our society, right? Like we're living in a society that is constantly pushing us into uh poor mental, physical, and spiritual health. And so, what do we have to do? We have to actively work against the environment to not have poor outcomes. So, like it's it's it is a it is a unhappiness genetic system and society and culture that we live in. So if we want to experience happiness, like true, actual, real happiness, we have to go against the things that are in our environment. If you were just on cruise control in America right now, you would be stressed, addicted, you'd be in poor health, you would not be eating very well, like all of these things. It's our our system, our society, our culture at large isn't set up or conducive to good, happy, healthy outcomes. And so the question becomes like, what are you doing in your life to go against the the grain? If like going with the flow or going with the grain is going to result in poor outcomes, then what are you doing on the daily to move against that? And it might take doing things that are a little bit weird or a little bit countercultural or a little bit against the grain. And that might be an indication that it's not a bad idea to explore, right? Like if we're going, if we're going with the flow, right, then you and I are both still drinking a lot. We're still avoiding doing a lot of internal work. We're still, I guess, like not in as healthy places with our relationships and our friendships. We're certainly not taking as good of care of our bodies, right? Like all of those things, if we're just going with the flow. Um, so I guess sometimes you got to get out of the flow.

SPEAKER_01 36:59

Yeah, and I think this raises such a good point, right? That this is where self-compassion is so critical because we are swimming in it. We are it is everywhere. Like and it is no wonder we're making choices that don't serve our best interests because we are being fed a constant diet of poor choices, being told that they are good for us. And you know, it's it's exhausting to have to be like, you know, go bucking that tide, right? Like swimming upstream. And as much as we try and we want to and we get good intentions and we wake up in the morning convicted that this is going to be the day that we do something different, by noon, we've, you know, we we've we've in in input a thousand messages contrary to the thing that we want to do for ourselves. And so like I think it's so important to recognize there's also when you were talking, and maybe you've mentioned this before, maybe it was you who actually said it, but I I think I heard on a podcast recently too, like we tend to be a reflection of the five closest people in our environment. So, like what you were saying, the epige, like whatever like society we're living in, we're like the Chernobyl example, and this is like an even more personal, like the five closest people in our life, do they like what are their food habits? What are their exercise habits? What are their drinking habits? What are their shopping habits? What are their what cars do they drive? What, you know, like that, the the influence of those five people is actually disproportionately. I'm not going to remember the numbers, but an outsize proportion that will predict how we show up in the world. And so, you know, maybe we need to take a look around and see, like, is this not that we need to ditch our good friends that are in our short circle, but like maybe we need to be an agent of change. Maybe we need, you know, sometimes if we're gonna be the one that's gonna say, I think I want to look at my relationship with drinking, and we're surrounded by heavy drinkers, it's gonna be really swimming upstream. If we say, I'm thinking that alcohol might not be my best friend, and our friends are all like, what? What are you talking about? She's my very best friend, and all you're being, you know, like it's gonna be hard. And that's where I think like these sober curious communities and conversations with like-minded individuals are really important. Um, because we need to be able to have these conversations and have these investigations with people that are also curious about the same things we are.

SPEAKER_02 39:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:46

SPEAKER_02 41:31

Yeah. Um yeah. Connect, get out there, expand, expand your diet of ideas. Um Ellen, is there anything that we didn't talk about that we should have when it comes to thinking about alcohol as a friend?

SPEAKER_01 41:50

I just think, you know, sometimes you ask, like, what would I practical thing to share with someone? And I'm thinking, like, if you, and I haven't done this, I think I will do this, like, write down like what is a best friend to me? Like, what if I had a really truly honest to goodness best friend, like the kind of best friend I used to have in elementary school that I told all my secrets to, and we did everything together and we laughed till we were sick, and you know, we did all the crazy fun things together. Like, let's get really interested in what what is a best friend? What does that look like for us? And then ask the question like, is alcohol giving you that? Because it's easy to get sucked into the images that yes, alcohol is like reliable, predictable, all always there. I mean, that is the one thing that alcohol is. As long as you have 10 bucks to put something in your refrigerator, you will be able to have a friend with you all the time if you believe that that is a worthy friend, you know. But I'm here to ask you the question of like, are you worth more than what alcohol can offer as a friend? And like if you got to choose what kind of a friend you wanted, would it look like alcohol? Or do we want to start looking elsewhere? Because we might not magically be able to conjure up the best friend that we want, but if we don't start looking, it's never gonna happen. What about you? Parting words.

SPEAKER_02 43:16

I guess I would just encourage people to not settle for less. Don't settle for less. On your way to doing that, something practical that you can do is to put yourself into quiet, think about what is distracting you from being with yourself. Uh, and get curious about why, if you find that it's difficult to be with yourself, if you find uh unstructured time or quiet time or you know, time with yourself when you're not interacting with somebody else, you're not consuming um information or entertainment, you're just sat there. What is that expectation? Experience like for you? And if it's an uncomfortable one, start to get clear on why that's uncomfortable. Is it actually intolerable or is it just unfamiliar? And you know, what is what rises inside of you to fill that space? That quiet voice that kind of starts to come up when you're not constantly surrounded by things yelling at you to buy stuff or be a certain way or be enraged about this, right? Like what comes from you? Uh and you might be very surprised at what comes up.

SPEAKER_01 44:36

I think that's so important. And you know, something I need to hear too. Like I think we all need to hear, right? Like creating those quiet spaces where we can listen to what arises within us, like naturally, not not something that's been conjured up by some external source. So thank you for that.

SPEAKER_02 44:58

Of course. Um, folks, if this resonated with you, make sure you're sharing the podcast. Make sure you're tuning in every Monday at 7 a.m.

SPEAKER_01 45:09

Eastern. Something like that, maybe six.

SPEAKER_02 45:12

As we release new episodes. Uh, and we hope that you'll join us on the journey. Thank you for uh being part of this and uh listening in. And until next time, I've been Jonathan.

SPEAKER_01 45:23

And I'm Ellen.

SPEAKER_00 45:24

Great to be with y'all.

SPEAKER_02 45:25

Thanks for listening to the Alcohol Myth Podcast.

SPEAKER_00 45:28

If this episode sparked something for you, we'd love to hear about it.

SPEAKER_02 45:32

Send your questions, stories, or ideas for future episodes to thealcoholmyth at gmail.com.

SPEAKER_00 45:38

We read every message. We really do.

SPEAKER_02 45:40

Take good care of yourself. We'll see you next time.