Alcohol Promises Connection. But Builds Isolation

Does alcohol really help us open up, or does it quietly build a wall between us and the connection we’re looking for?

In this episode of The Alcohol Myth Podcast, we unpack one of alcohol’s most convincing stories: the belief that we need a drink to be vulnerable, have deep conversations, and feel close to other people. Ellen and Jonathan talk about heartfelt wine-fueled conversations, brownouts, shame, drinking buddies, emotional armor, social isolation, liquid courage, and what it actually takes to build honest connection without alcohol.

You’ll hear why alcohol can make vulnerability feel easier in the moment while also blurring boundaries, lowering our ability to discern who is safe, and sometimes leaving us feeling even more disconnected afterward. We also explore emotional safety, reciprocity, and how to practice real connection from a clear-headed place.

If you’ve ever believed alcohol made you more open, more social, or more connected, this conversation will help you look at that myth with curiosity and compassion.

#AlcoholMythPodcast #AlcoholFreedom #SoberCurious #AlcoholFree #vulnerability 

Connect with us:
Email: thealcoholmyth@gmail.com
Jonathan: https://livecreativeaf.com/
Ellen: https://ellenbiggscoaching.com/

Subscribe for more episodes on pulling back the curtain on the alcohol myth.


Chapters

00:00 Cold Open and Podcast Intro
01:01 The Myth: Alcohol Helps Me Open Up
03:12 When Alcohol Creates the Opposite of Connection
04:51 Drinking Buddies, Shame, and Emotional Armor
06:18 From Social Drinking to Isolation
08:11 Stop Outsourcing Connection to Alcohol
12:38 Vulnerability, Belonging, and Trustworthy People
16:38 How Alcohol Dilutes Real Openness
21:55 The “Ante Up” Model for Deeper Conversations
25:06 Choosing Safe People for Vulnerability
27:36 Internal Courage Without Liquid Courage
29:14 Practicing Vulnerability in Safe Community
33:41 Practical Ways to Connect Without Drinking
39:44 Awareness, Reciprocity, and Curiosity

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Thinking that the drinking would somehow allow me to get connection, but it was the drinking that made me have this huge wall of armor up because I was so ashamed of my drinking. I mean, it's just like this convoluted thing that we think it provides vulnerability. And what it did for me was provide a huge wall of armor so that I could never feel connection.

SPEAKER_00 0:21

Why does the world act like alcohol is the answer, even while it is creating problems of its own?

SPEAKER_01 0:26

On the Alcohol Myth podcast, we pull back the curtain so you can see what's really going on with alcohol and what life could be like without it.

SPEAKER_00 0:32

We're coaches trained in this naked mind and effective limital psychology who fell for the alcohol myth for decades. Now we help people take back control of their lives by changing their relationship with alcohol from the inside out.

SPEAKER_01 0:44

You don't need to wait for a rock bottom. You don't need more willpower. You just need a new way to understand what you are feeling and why you are reaching for that next drink.

SPEAKER_00 0:53

So let's dig in. Um, the idea that I need alcohol, the myth that I need alcohol in order to open up to people, to be in connection to people. I really, really used to think that alcohol was the fuel for great conversations or for being able to uh connect with somebody on a on a deeper level to cut through the the niceties and the BS and to get into more interesting, deeper waters in a conversation. So that's something that I believed for a long time. How about you, Ellen?

SPEAKER_01 1:55

Oh, I totally believe that. And and and felt like I had evidence to back it up too, because I would have all these really, I mean, what I perceived to be really heartfelt um conversations where I might share something that I was going through, or somebody would share with me something that they were going through, but it was only after a couple glasses of wine and um Yeah, I mean, embarrassingly, what would happen a little too often is that we would have this really like conversation where they shared something really deep with me. And then in the next morning I would be like, oh shit, what what was that? Because I didn't have a lot of I had some blackouts, but I had a lot of brownouts where I would be, after you know, a few too many drinks, I would wake up the next morning and it would be very um, you know, like I would get flashes of conversations and things that happen, but it wasn't like I could clearly with full clarity remember everything we talked about, you know. So this deeply vulnerable conversation that I felt like we were having was sort of like lost. And then the embarrassment of me not remembering would create this wall or this mask that I would put on to be like, oh yeah, I remember what you were talking about. I mean, it just created the opposite feeling of connection.

SPEAKER_00 3:12

Yeah. Isn't that funny how so often alcohol is like, hey, I can give you this thing, and then when you take it a few steps further, you realize that it gave you the opposite of that thing you were looking for. Like, I'm looking for genuine deep connection, I'm looking for openness with you. I'm looking to make myself maybe vulnerable before you as a as a as an auntie into our relationship. And instead, on the other end, what does alcohol give us? But um, you know, I've certainly experienced, you know, alcohol comes with that feeling of a lessening of inhibition. And so maybe you're opening up to somebody who isn't worthy of your trust. I've been in situations before where I've been looking to connect with somebody and not reading the signs that maybe I should proceed with a little bit more caution and then shared things with people that I shouldn't have shared. And so where I was looking for deep connection or like a really, you know, interesting conversation, or I'm making myself vulnerable to this person, they then prove themselves to not be worthy of that and weaponize that or use that against me, or for their own gain. And um all tracing back to the alcohol that artificially lowered my self-protective, sometimes totally reasonable and healthful and supportive inhibition. It's the it's not always a great thing to lose inhibition.

SPEAKER_01 4:51

That's so true, right? I it uh I as you were saying that, I thought of so many experiences in my over my life where it was like and I would get confused about who was worthy of the real Ellen, you know, my real vulnerable sides, because I um I was confused about friendship because I I you know was looking for drinking buddies sometimes more than true friends. And I think I I also because I was so secretive about how much I was drinking, because I was, you know, ashamed about how much I was drinking, I I it was like I I had a a wall up that I kind of wanted to put down so that I could experience some connection, but there was like no getting through that wall. So it it was, you know, thinking that the drinking would somehow allow me to get connection, but it was the drinking that made me have this huge wall of armor up because I was so ashamed of my drinking. I mean, it's just like this convoluted thing that we think it provides vulnerability, and what it did for me was provide a huge wall of armor so that I could never feel connection. I mean, never is a strong word, but I could never, you know, I was limited in the connection that I could feel.

SPEAKER_00 6:17

Yeah. I think about the experiences that I had like earlier on in my drinking career, where drinking was always associated with friends and hanging out and going places and doing things, and it was like active and social. And then slowly over time, without me really noticing it, because it happened over years, drinking turned into something that I was increasingly doing all by myself, late at night, totally isolated, totally in my own little box, right? And so this thing that I thought was so important for social lubrication and for you know heightening connection ended up feeding into this withdrawal and this, you know, disassociation with friends and this self-isolation. And um I know that a lot of people experience that where the they don't want to be judged for what they're drinking, and everything feels like such an effort to do anything anyway, and so you just end up doing the same thing over and over again by yourself, drinking alone. It sucks.

SPEAKER_01 7:31

Yeah, I I love that you pointed that out. That the way we usually start drinking is more fun, right? It is about being together with people, it is about going out and doing fun things, it is about you know, I mean, I I I don't ever want to demonize alcohol in this podcast in a way that makes people think that I don't like appreciate the parts of my life when I was drinking and it wasn't harming me, you know. I mean, I guess uh I sliding doors, I have no idea what my life would be like if I just never drank. It, you know, it would probably be a beautiful life, just a very different life. But I think that you get, you know, we start out drinking because we are getting connection and um fun. And then as it progresses, as you know, if anyone drinks enough of it, it will start to progress. You will want more, you will need more, you will start to drink more regularly. Um then the thing that was fun turn starts to be the thing that's keeping you from having fun. And it's just like this flip side of alcohol, you know. I think we we focus so often or advertising or the conversations we have with everyday people always focuses on all the positives, right? Because it keeps the myth going that alcohol is all that. And it like it just takes one little tip over of the other side to see all the ways that it's like the opposite of the thing that it promises.

SPEAKER_00 8:59

Yeah. The I mean that's that's the whole alcohol thing, right? Like it's it's like, hey, I can do everything, but um, I can't actually give you the thing that you're looking for that you're wanting. You know, like if you're if you're in search of connection, if you're in search of being a more social person, if you are in search of being the life of the party or whatever, and you outsource those parts of yourself that are inherent to you to alcohol, then it makes sense that you'd be giving lots of credit to the booze and you'd be overlooking the fact that all of that stuff was originating from inside of you anyway. Like the literally the the thing in the bottle didn't you're not you're not imbibing um being the life of the party. Like you already are the life of the party, and you're just allowing yourself to do that because you've been in this, you because you're in this situation with this beverage, and that's like expected or whatever. And it's so joyful to realize that I don't have to outsource those parts of myself to a dumb beverage anymore. I can just go ahead and short circuit that, tap into what's already inside, and and go there anyway. So if I we started this podcast about um with the myth that I need to have a drink to open up, to let my guard down, to be vulnerable, to have deep conversations, to connect with people. All of that is already inside of me. If I found those things with alcohol, I can't find the find those things within myself. And when it's coming from you, when it's coming from source, and you're not giving credit to the booze for that, because um it's not actual openness, it's not actual vulnerability if you have to artificially bring down the walls with something else to make that openness, if that makes sense. You know, what what do you think?

SPEAKER_01 11:03

Yeah, uh and as you were talking, I was thinking about how like we clearly want vulnerability, right? Like we we don't think we like we're afraid of it, but and we think, oh, I need alcohol to lower my inhibitions so that I can have it, because I think we are a little bit confused about vulnerability. Like, what does it mean about me if I'm vulnerable, right? I think I mean I was working so hard to have the facade that everything was okay, that I was uh, you know, um yeah, like, you know, I was uh the proverbial good girl, right? I did got all the good accolades, I did all the, you know, got the good grades, got had the, you know, successful husband, had the cute kids, had the like I wanted to be seen in a way that reflected that I was okay, but in doing so, it meant I could never share how hard I was experiencing life or motherhood or my marriage or you know, whatever I was experiencing at the time, like it's this trap, right? That we think that if we're vulnerable about something, it's going to mean something about us. And I think this is I got really confused around this. And and I think when I started to realize that vulnerability is actually the the it is the pathway to connection, it is the pathway to belonging, it is the pathway to um feeling not alone and and giving other people permission to also be vulnerable so that they can feel not alone, and like that that is like a sp a a positive spiral that can happen, but with with trustworthy people, like and not just drinking buddies, you know, like choosing discerning who is um you know uh worthy of me like bearing my soul to, right? But when when we find that and we do that without alcohol, and it's really truly us choosing to share something vulnerable, the the the power of that, you know, the power of what that starts to put into motion between people is something that um is I mean, no wonder people want connection, right? Because it's it feels really great. And you know, I think we get confused that if I'm vulnerable, I'm somehow gonna people are gonna judge me or they're not gonna think I'm all that, you know, and it's like I don't know. I feel like I'm just talking randomly here. I d what are you hearing in what I'm saying? Make sense about Jonathan.

SPEAKER_00 14:00

I think that we're designed for connection. Um, we're a social species. Take it back to evolutionary biology, right? Like we want to know that we belong in a community, and we appreciate and recognize when people are open with us because I think a deep part of ourselves like knows that to be open is super difficult. And we admire people who do difficult things. And you know, think about somebody being real and open and honest with you and and showing up in their authenticity and sharing a piece of their life with you, even if it's something you know from the outside that someone else would interpret as this is a negative, or like, oh, that's a sign of weakness, or whatever. Um, then if you're if you're on the receiving end of it, you know that it's such a gift that you can't really see it any other way. Like I'm I'm a big fan of podcasts. I was listening recently to Diary of a CEO with Stephen Bartlett, and he had on Scott Galloway, who's another great podcaster. He does the pivot podcast. And at the end, um Stephen Bartlett always asks a question, you know. Uh I think the question for Scott was something along the lines of, you know, what's a moment that uh fundamentally rocked your world and changed your life forever? And Scott Galloway is this um very successful businessman. He's a professor at uh and he starts crying because it, you know, he's uh he was talking about the the passing of his mom, you know, and he's like, I'm a middle-aged man, I haven't gotten over the you know, passing of my mom. Um and you know, crying on a podcast, and he's this like successful, powerful, wealthy man with another man, like that's just it's not cringe, right? It's this like very raw, vulnerable moment. And the response is uh for me listening is one of respect for him for having the ability to to show up in in that way. And we know when we see it, you know, we can tell when it's performative or if it's diluted or if it's disingenuous. We're great as human beings as sussing out where somebody's coming from, and I think that's another part that alcohol robs from us in this whole conversation about being open and vulnerable, is that it makes it makes not only our judgment of when to be open or vulnerable suspect, but also it doesn't allow you to show up in a truly open and vulnerable way. And so it kind of dilutes the power of that giving, if you will, right? Like if you're if you're spilling your life story and you know, like it's a sob story because you're intoxicated, it's not gonna be received the same as if you're of if you're clear-headed and deciding to open up with that, because then that whole experience, like the rawest experience of your life, if you share it with somebody while you're inebriated, then it's gonna be like a oh, you're an emotional drinker, right? Like it's gonna be kind of dismissed, even if it was coming from a genuine place, you know, like alcohol's got its taint on it.

SPEAKER_01 17:47

That's so true. It's like genuine when you're genuinely showing up vulnerably emotionally in a raw way like that, it's you can't help but be moved by that, you know? It's making me think like as humans, we're all drawn to the hero's journey, right? And the you know, the the arc of every good novel or you know, storyline. It's like here's character, character goes through something really hard, and usually they the ones that I tend to like, or they, you know, have to figure it out, and sometimes with uh the help of other people, and um, and then they can overcome and move on and maybe share what they've learned. And if you're never willing to like share the vulnerable hard things that you've experienced, and you just want to like puff yourself up and be like, Yeah, I just didn't, you know, would pulled myself up and I did my thing, and it it's it's suffocating, you know. It's it's a suffocating thing to be like uh I have the image of like a uh what is that when you're in the like mental institution and they put the straitjacket strait jacket on that it's like I you know, I only will allow myself to be vulnerable if I have a few drinks, like then I'm walking through the rest of my life in a straitjacket where I'm just having to pretend all the time that um there's nothing to see here.

SPEAKER_00 19:20

That uh you were just doing the the impression of like a oh pulled myself up by my bootstraps and I'm you know like this uh you know, just rub some dirt in it, right? Like that kind of thing. It makes me think about how much as a guy my experience with like connecting with other guys involved lots and lots of alcohol, right? Like, I don't think that we had good models for having genuine connections or expressing genuine feeling to each other in the absence of alcohol. Like it I don't think that it was modeled for a lot of us, you know, how to you know look another man in the face and say, Man, I love you. You know, like you're so cool, like you're doing all this stuff, and I I'm very impressed by you. And for it to not sound a certain kind of way, right? Like it always had to be you can say those things after you've had several drinks, right? Before you wouldn't be allowed to say those things, and how um you know that's I I'm sure that it's a factor for women, I'm sure, but that is a big factor for guys, and we're just socialized differently to express and feel feelings about our feelings in a in a different way. And alcohol is like this super conduit to being able to express yourself that way, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 20:59

I'm wondering how that has changed for you because I mean being now a significant amount of time alcohol free, and you had a period in the past too where you were alcohol free, like how do you relate to vulnerability as a man you know, without the crutch of alcohol? What does that look like?

SPEAKER_00 21:24

Honestly, for me, I I've become very comfortable holding space for other men that I'm talking to to have and express and explore their feelings. I do that explicitly with my coaching practice, but I find myself doing that in random interactions and you know, just like you know, running into somebody and chatting at work and things like that. I find that if I am If I am embodying the peace and welcome and you know inner stability and openness and vulnerability and good intention, and I'm walking around in that, I think that people can sense that. And when they do, and they give me a it's almost like I keep I keep uh imagining, you know, when we talk about social exchanges sitting at a poker table, everybody wants to hive their cards, you know, like everybody's you know got their their guard up, and then to be in a conversation, it's like you have to ante up, right? I gotta push a chip forward. And if I'm in a conversation with somebody and they push a chip forward, I'm always I react to that chip in a very safe way, right? Anymore, I don't um deflect with a joke or change the subject or whatever. Um I appreciate, acknowledge, and accept that that anti-up for what it is. And then when I do that, and and I anti in as well, I find that then we're having then we're having that kind of deeper conversation, we're having that dialogue that I thought you could only get through alcohol. But it turns out like it takes openness and reciprocity and um mutual vulnerability, right? If if somebody is always coming to you and they're just like vulnerable all the time and like an overshare, like you know, like that's what they lead with or whatever, then that's not really vulnerability, right? Like that's like emotional, I don't know, like recklessness or something like that. It's it's it's its own problem. Um, but more often than not, people are very guarded and they have their you know cards held very closely. But I think the more that I have grown in my capacity to be a safe space for emotions, which took me getting in touch with exploring and understanding my own emotions, the more um I've been honored with people and especially guys sharing theirs with me. And then we both benefit.

SPEAKER_01 24:33

Yeah, I love this idea of emotional safety, you know, feeling um that whole poker image is so such a good one because it's like it does, it takes someone putting the first chip forward, whether that be someone testing the waters with you because they can sense that it might be safe, or you pushing the chip forward because you sense somebody might be safe, and then getting that reciprocity. And um, because we don't want to be reckless with our vulnerability, right? To your point, like not everyone is safe, that not everybody is emotionally safe. Let's just be clear about that. We don't want to go around being vulnerable with people that are not going to honor, you know, the parts of us that we're sharing. Um when we find those people, I had a similar experience. I met this woman at a party about a year ago, and um I had not been drinking for about 18 months, and I had actually just started coaching, but I hadn't really shared with anybody that I was coaching because it's like uh, you know, I'm in the alcohol freedom coaching space. Like I was worried I would be like a pariah at a party, right? Like nobody wants to talk to that person. It was a Kentucky Derby party, everybody's, you know, drinking their bourbon. And um, but for whatever reason, this woman exuded that kind of emotional safety that you're talking about by the the topic that she brought up with me. And then when she asked me, Well, what do you do? I felt safe enough to be like, and I shared with her the first person outside of my family or you know, very close friends that I shared with. And and and it led to this like mutually vulnerable conversation where she shared some, not not about alcohol, but she shared some things about her because she alcohol isn't her thing, but um, you know, we just were it was like this dance of vulnerability. And now, a year later, she's she and I have become like incredibly good uh friends, and I'm still getting to know her. Um, but it it feels like a friendship based on something real, you know, something honest, something where we both have like at stake, you know, because we both are being our because it's there's something really scary about showing your full self to someone and not knowing how you will be received, right? I mean, I think that's why we use alcohol to do it because it's really scary, and you know, alcohol is liquid courage, right? But to be able to do that and know that you didn't outsource your courage to alcohol, but you actually had the internal courage, it's there's like a a real a feeling of real um power in that.

SPEAKER_00 27:28

I love that. And we could do a whole episode, I think, on out like alcohol as liquid courage, but the yeah, how much more courageous is it to do it raw, right? Like how much more courageous is it to show up in your authenticity, to demonstrate vulnerability and emotional safety, and to not need to rely on some exogenous substance that you know has all of these downstream effects of messing with your health and your clarity and all that good stuff. So yeah, it's it's a trip. And it's not easy. That's the thing, right? Like um the finest things in life require work and um are often difficult, but it's it's the challenge and meeting the challenge and beating the challenge that makes them rewarding. And it's hard to show up in your authenticity and to demonstrate vulnerability to people when you aren't artificially lowering your inhibitions. But when you do, it's that much more rewarding and that much more the basis, as you said, for something real, uh a genuine connection based in um, I guess I'm gonna just go back to the word authenticity.

SPEAKER_01 28:53

And it's making me think about like the alcohol freedom journey too, right? To to the willingness to share openly with someone that you're struggling with alcohol. I mean that I I didn't have it. I was, yeah, I I I mean, I I shared in you know the your interview with me about my story. Like I kept that puppy secret for 15 years, you know. So it's turning around and and and I didn't I only felt safe to share it when I found a community of people that were in a coaching program about their alcohol use because it felt safe. Again, it was like I wasn't afraid somebody was gonna judge me. I wasn't afraid somebody was going to laugh at me or tell me I'm stupid or what's wrong with me, or you know, it was people that were also showing up being vulnerable about their experience. And that provided that safe space, that safe emotional safety for me to be able to practice being vulnerable because you can't just flip a switch and be like, oh, I'm just gonna be vulnerable today. I mean, it you know, at least I couldn't like it takes a real, you know, like baby steps, right? Like to figure out where are the safe places, who are the safe people, to practice it and see, you know, little incremental pieces too, and you know, share something and see what the response is. And um it is a it is a practice and an exploration.

SPEAKER_00 30:27

You were just describing makes me think about the leaders in those groups, right? Like it took somebody showing up in their rawness, in their vulnerability, in their authenticity to signal in the first place that this community is a space where you can do that and be that. And the guys that I coach are leaders in their professions, they're leaders in their families, they're leaders in their communities, and they and yet are afraid of stepping into this part of that leadership journey and leading with that authenticity that necessitates a level of vulnerability. But when they do, the outcomes are incredible and people understand that we're we're magnetically drawn to leaders and people and voices that are showing up in that way and and and showing us what's possible in a given space.

SPEAKER_01 31:38

I mean, it feels like someone that is they would be trustworthy, right? If they were trusting me with their story, then I feel like that somehow makes them more trustworthy in my eyes, because it's like you you can't no one's they're not gonna throw a stone, right? Because they uh it it's a it would be a mutual destructive situation. And um yeah, and it's the the people that came before me in my journey to alcohol freedom that shared their stories vulnerably on TED talks, on podcasts, in books, like they are heroes to me. Like they are they gave me the emotional safety to be able to talk to other people. And I you know, I think about like whether it be around alcohol or anything else, like being a leader to your point, being someone who's willing to be open with vulnerability, show a a side of them that is not, you know, proverbial perfect. It just it it gives everyone else permission to do that, you know. If you have a if you're a leader of an organization and you don't ever show any vulnerable side, everyone's gonna think that there's that's not acceptable. That's not of you know, that we don't operate that way, that's not welcome here. And how much are you cutting off of people when you're um giving that message?

SPEAKER_00 33:11

Mm-hmm. Well, and then it cues to everybody else that they have to hide and make themselves small. And what what organization is gonna benefit from you know everybody that reports to the boss all hiding everything that's going on. The the boss isn't gonna be getting good information in that situation.

SPEAKER_01 33:34

Um yeah, it's just it's and then you can imagine the the office party when everybody over drinks and then it's a big old messy mess, right?

SPEAKER_00 33:41

Like it's no good. So, Ellen, we've been talking about alcohol and showing up uh and being open, and we've been talking about vulnerability, we've been talking about connection. How can we make this practical to somebody who's gotten this far in the episode?

SPEAKER_01 33:59

I was thinking earlier about like when I was drinking, it would have been hard for me to imagine opening up to someone without drinking, but I think that was just my brain tricking me because like I did have times in the day where I wasn't drinking, right? I used to meet friends for a walk in the morning and we would have really great conversations. I would, you know, talk to my sister on the phone and we were in different time zones. So it would often be my morning, her evening, and I would share a lot of my life not with the drinks. And so, but in my mind, I was I had convinced myself that I could only do it when I was drinking. So it's almost like just get start to just become aware of like what are the most um heartwarming or the most uh, you know, just the connection, the the conversations and connections that kind of leave you feeling full up. When are they taking place? Like what kinds of conversations are those? Because you might be having vulnerable conversations that you're not even really fully aware of, or you might have safe people in your life that you could test the waters with. You know, we're so focused on what we do after 5 p.m. But there's a you know, for most of us, there's a whole day during the day when we're not drinking. And no shade on you if you're drinking during the day. I did my fair share of that too. But um I think sometimes we convince ourselves of something that when we actually look at it with an honest, you know, in investigative eye, you might find something that's worth exploring and and and paying more attention to. What about you?

SPEAKER_00 35:48

I like that reality check, you know, like does this does this belief match up with my actual experience of lived reality or not? And if not, huh. You know, what can I learn from that insight that that's not true? I think that I'll go back to the uh the sitting across the table playing poker analogy for a conversation. And I guess I would encourage people if you're looking to have better, richer, deeper connections with people, if you're looking to have interesting conversations that you know go beyond the surface level, then start to pay attention to what is your response when somebody makes an ante? How do you respond? For me, I was always the like, I'm the funny guy, I'm you know, like making a joke and I'm you know deflecting and stuff like that. And I did that a lot because I wasn't comfortable with emotions or feelings, or I was I was I, you know, I would profess to want to have these deep conversations, but then if there was an off-ramp into absurdity or making a joke or making light of something, then I would take it every time. It took me becoming aware of my own responses to when somebody is offering me something to get a grip on that and to start seeing that change. And um, it's a really interesting exercise to like what to note what is my default knee-jerk reaction when somebody makes a conversation ante. What do I do?

SPEAKER_01 37:34

Yeah, that's such a great point. I and and I think the flip side of that for me too, as you were talking, I was thinking, gosh, I I think I was on the receiving end of a lot of because I I tend to be quiet, um people would you know what you were talking about earlier, like the emotional recklessness, like a lot of people would dump their feelings on me, and I would mistake that for connection um because they were being vulnerable with me. But what I always left those scenarios feeling empty because what I would realize later, I didn't necessarily this is something I've come to realize like along the way, but like they would never turn around and ask me, like, how are you, Ellen, or what's going on with you? It would always be like I was a safe place for them to jump all of their emotions, but it was not reciprocated. And so I love this idea of the anti back and forth, like let's be safe, but um let's also be looking that to make sure that the person we're with is safe. And if it's just a situation where people want to, you know, um unload, like be mindful that you that's you know, that is also not necessarily the path to go down. Cause I think a lot of us are looking for emotional connection and a lot of us are really confused about how to get it. And so no sh shade on the people that might do that, right? I think that they are also trying to f connect, they just don't and some people will say, Oh, well, I just I figured if you had something to share, you would tell me, or you know, I didn't want to pry or you know, but I yeah, I it and that makes sense. It does make sense because everybody's so worried about like digging in when you don't want to be dug into and all of that. So uh that's a long rambling way to just say like it does go two ways and be, you know, be mindful of that and be aware of that. And we get to choose who we want to be vulnerable with.

SPEAKER_00 39:44

Yeah, I really like that idea of like examining the conversations and the relationships and you know, being aware of when somebody's given you an ante and also being aware, have you anteedied in, you know? And if you haven't, is it because you are you've got your armor on, like your your guard, your guard is up? If so, is it up because of habit? Is it up because of something you you know or sense about this person? Is it up reflexively and it's not actually serving you? Um, is it up as a way of you controlling the relationship dynamic? So I have definitely worked with people who, you know, they are they make themselves small as a way of controlling the relationship dynamic, because if they stay small and they are only ever receiving, then they don't have to share anything, right? It's just like I'm you know, our friendship is me listening to the radio of them talking and talking, talking, and me going, mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm, right? Like that's not what we're after. So yeah, I think that um it as is so often I feel like in our podcast, it comes back around to awareness and noticing because you can't really do much about things that you don't notice and aren't aware of.

SPEAKER_01 41:07

Yeah, and so much of the time we're just operating on autopilot and like just doing what we always do and believing what we always believe and making assumptions and making judgments without even really paying attention to what is real and what is actually happening in the moment. And um, that that takes taking a breath and like dropping the I think I already know, you know.

SPEAKER_00 41:30

Yeah, yeah. Be curious for sure. Extend that curiosity to the world and also to yourself. And uh, we hope in the spirit of curiosity, you'll join us next week as we take into more of uh the alcohol myths. Thanks, everybody.

SPEAKER_01 41:48

Thanks, been fun as always.

SPEAKER_00 41:50

Thanks for listening to the Alcohol Myth Podcast.

SPEAKER_01 41:52

If this episode sparked something for you, we'd love to hear about it.

SPEAKER_00 41:56

Send your questions, stories, or ideas for future episodes to thealcoholmyth at gmail.com.

SPEAKER_01 42:02

We read every message. We really do.

SPEAKER_00 42:05

Take good care of yourself. I'll see you next time.