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The Alcohol Myth Podcast
The Alcohol Myth Podcast features certified coaches Ellen and Jonathan having real conversations about alcohol, sobriety, and reclaiming a life that feels exciting to wake up to.
The Alcohol Myth Podcast
Do I have a drinking problem if no one else notices?
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Do you have a drinking problem if nobody else is getting hurt? Why that test gives a wrong answer.
There is a test you run on your own drinking, and it has nothing to do with how much you drink. It goes: is anyone else getting hurt? Nobody is complaining, the job is fine, you have never endangered anyone. Test passed. Jonathan Ball and Ellen Biggs take that test apart, because it is built to return the wrong answer.
Outward harm is the last thing to show up and the least reliable thing to measure. Ellen drank a bottle of wine a night for years without a single person raising it with her, and spent those same years awake at three in the morning asking what was wrong with her. Nobody complaining is not evidence that you are okay. It only means the people around you are being spared, which was the point of the performance.
Look at what you build to keep that performance running. After one uncomfortable night at a work event, Ellen made a firm rule about never behaving that way again. It worked. It also meant she stopped wanting to go to work events and drank more at home. That is what a guardrail is really for. It kept the drinking safe by heading off the incident that might have made somebody say something out loud.
The same instinct shows up as protecting people from your struggle. Jonathan kept how bad it had been from his wife for years and called it sparing her. What he built was a wall she could feel and could not name. When he finally told her, she handled it fine. What hurt her was having been kept out of it.
Your own experience is enough. You do not need a witness to it and you do not need it to get worse first. Try this the next time someone close to you is in a mood: pause, notice the story you just attached to it, and then just ask. Ellen finds that nine times out of ten it has nothing to do with her.
Work with Jonathan: https://livecreativeaf.com/ | Work with Ellen: https://ellenbiggscoaching.com/
CHAPTERS
00:00 The myth: no harm, no problem
03:30 Nobody complained, so I was fine
07:00 The wall I built and never mentioned
10:30 What the facade costs your self-worth
14:00 Curiosity instead of self-blame
17:30 Ellen's work event in Seoul
21:00 Guardrails that protect the habit
24:30 You cannot control how they feel
31:30 Permission to take an hour a day
35:00 The WAIT technique for relationships
38:30 Just ask instead of assuming
FROM THIS EPISODE
"Me not being okay wasn't enough to make a change."
QUESTIONS THIS EPISODE ANSWERS
Q: Do I have a drinking problem if I am not hurting anyone?
A: Whether you have a drinking problem is not settled by whether you are hurting anyone. Outward harm is a late and unreliable signal. If you are awake at three in the morning arguing with yourself about last night, that internal cost is already the evidence you need.
Q: Do you have to hit rock bottom to change your relationship with alcohol?
A: You do not have to hit rock bottom to change your relationship with alcohol. Rock bottom is a threshold people invent so they can postpone the decision. You can act on quiet, private evidence long before anything in your outer life visibly breaks. There is no prize for waiting.
Q: What does high functioning drinking look like?
A: High functioning drinking looks like everything working. The job holds, the family is fine, nobody comments. What it hides is a private cost: the three in the morning self-criticism, the social life quietly shrinking, and the daily effort of keeping the performance running. None of it shows outwardly.
Q: How do I stop taking responsibility for other people's feelings?
A: You stop taking responsibility for other people's feelings by putting a beat between what they do and how you respond. Ask what story you just attached to their mood, then ask them directly what is going on. Most of the time it is not about you.
You do not need to wait for rock bottom.
You do not need more willpower.
You just need a new way to understand what you are feeling and why you are reaching for the next drink.
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Email: thealcoholmyth@gmail.com
Jonathan Ball, CreativeAF Coaching: https://livecreativeaf.com/
Ellen Biggs Coaching: https://ellenbiggscoaching.com/
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No one can make me feel a certain way. This has been something I've had to work on. Like, oh, he said that. He made me angry. No. You know what how I am responding to the thing that he said makes me angry. You know, like the taking responsibility for my own emotion, but also allowing, you know, giving the responsibility back to the other person that they are also responsible for their own emotion. And that is like next level work, right?
SPEAKER_00Why does the world act like alcohol is the answer, even while it is creating problems of its own?
SPEAKER_01On the alcohol myth podcast, we pull back the curtain so you can see what's really going on with alcohol and what life could be like without it.
SPEAKER_00We are coaches trained in this naked mind and effective liminal psychology who fell for the alcohol myth for decades. Now we help people take back control of their lives by changing their relationship with alcohol from the inside out.
SPEAKER_01You don't need to wait for a rock bottom. You don't need more willpower. You just need a new way to understand what you are feeling and why you are reaching for that next drink.
SPEAKER_00So let's dig in. Hey, Ellen.
SPEAKER_01Hey Jonathan, great to be with you.
SPEAKER_00Great to be with you. Today we are talking about the myth that as long as I'm not hurting anyone, endangering people with my driving or acting belligerent in my relationships, then I don't really have a problem as it relates to alcohol. As long as there's no outward uh harm to others occurring, then I don't have a problem with alcohol. And I think that this is an interesting one because it reminds me or relates to me the idea that like some kind of horrible rock bottom is a prerequisite to changing your relationship. Like, like we feel like we need to reach some threshold of harm in order to want to improve our lives. And I don't know that most of us would say that out loud or put that on a t-shirt, but it's one of those things where the belief is kind of revealed through our actions. Um, anyways, Ellen, what do you think about when uh we we introduce this topic?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I love what you just said because I think that is so true. We wait, we wait for the bottom to drop out. And I think another thing I was thinking about when we talked about this topic is that, I mean, this is my orientation, and maybe not everybody shows up this way, but I think a lot of people that overuse alcohol do. Um, I was always so concerned about everybody else. You know, I was busy taking care of everybody, I was busy worrying about everybody, I was busy holding the ship, you know, right and making sure everything was taken care of, that I judged whether or not everything was okay, if my drinking was okay, if anything was okay, frankly, if the people in my life um were having any problems with it or having any problems with me, right? And so um it felt like as long as I wasn't harming anyone with my behavior, as long as no one was saying to me, Ellen, this is, you know, I don't really love the way you show up when you're drinking, which almost never happened, I was able to convince myself that um that it wasn't a problem. But it's even more insidious than that because what happened was I became so good at presenting that everything was okay with me, that I mean, I wasn't, you know, this isn't true for all people, but I think it's true for a lot of people. I wasn't a terrible drunk, you know, like when I drank, I there were exceptions, of course. I mean, there were times when I got sloppy and messy, but that was the exception. Like I typically managed it in a way that I could still pretty much function. I was just, you know, at an altered state, you know, after a bottle of wine, how could you not be? But I had been drinking a bottle of wine a night for so long, it wasn't like it it made me fall down or anything, you know. So I I it wasn't gonna probably come from the outside in my case, at least maybe not for another decade when things got really, really, really bad. So for me to wait for that, I, you know, which is what I was kind of uh subconsciously maybe doing, it was it would have taken more time. And and what I did by kind of needing it to come from the outside of me is that I discounted all of the internal suffering I was experiencing. It was like, I was like, well, if everybody else is okay, then it's not a problem. Meanwhile, I was waking up at 3 a.m. every single night, beating myself up, crying in my pillow, like, what is wrong with you, Ellen? Why can't you get a handle on this? Like, I was not okay, you know, but it it wasn't like I I didn't, it was like me not being okay wasn't enough to make a change or something. I I I don't know. I mean, I I'm curious if you experienced that because that it's extraordinarily relatable, Ellen.
SPEAKER_00I was just thinking about how when we're operating from that place, how incredibly lonely it is because we're so focused on trying to present this front for everybody else so as to not cause anybody else distress. We're kind of overly involved with protecting the people around us and taking responsibility, too much responsibility for their well-being in a way that allows us to completely turn a blind eye to what we might need and to how we might be not showing up for ourselves in in those times. And it's it's like if I can put all my focus, all my energy on what everybody else needs from me and what everybody else expects from me, then I don't have to look honestly at what's going on right here inside the house. And uh, and that way I get to not kind of confront the the mess that's happening right here. It reminds me, I was I was actually just speaking to a client about this, but part of my own story with alcohol was you know the big drinking life of the party. I, you know, made drinking a lot my part of my personality. And I always looked like I was having fun. And so it was shocking to my wife when I got this whole thing, when I discovered this naked mind, and I started working through this process and started doing my own healing. I felt like I needed to tell her just how miserable I had been for years dealing with this. And she was upset. Like it hurt her that I'd kept from her this huge experience that I was having, and which was the opposite of what I had told myself that I was trying to do, right? Like, I don't want to burden her with how low I'm feeling or how scared I am that I find myself drinking way more than I want to. And the end result was me isolating myself from the person I care about the most in the world. We have this building this invisible wall between us that she doesn't understand. You know, like she's no dummy. She knows something's there, but I'm certainly not, you know, like I was the one that built the wall, right? Like I'm not gonna knock it down. Um, and it's I don't know, it keeps us trapped. It's one of those things that alcohol does to us where, you know, it seems like it's this thing that's going to increase connection or increase fun or help us manage stress or whatever. And then on the back end, of course, it always ends up giving us the reverse of what it promised us.
SPEAKER_01But oh, yeah. I mean, ditto everything you said. I I so relatable. And as you were saying that, I was I realized that one of the reasons I stayed in that place for so long was because I didn't see a way out that didn't involve some major catastrophic, like declare myself an alcoholic and go to rehab. You know, like I I because I it wasn't like I wasn't trying to cut back. It wasn't like I wasn't trying to drink less and less often. I was, I was trying every day, you know. And so it was like I had dug in dug myself into this place where I was so alone because I hadn't shared any of this with anyone. And and the the only way out I could imagine was something that would be so shocking to the whole system of my family, to the system of my, you know, friendships. Like, I how could I go from everything is perfect, which is what I presented all the time, to I need rehab? Like it was too, it was like way too uh, you know, the other pendulum. And because I didn't know about any other options. I mean, this was before I had heard about this naked mind or I had been introduced to the sober cis program, or knew that there was an alternate way of changing my relationship with alcohol other than AA. And so again, it goes back to why we're doing this podcast, just to like spread the awareness that you don't, you don't have to go from that lonely, sad, scared place to declare yourself an alcoholic and go to rehab or commit to going to AA for 30 days in a row or what, you know, whatever the other route is. There is another way that is, you know, more way more palatable for me at the time, like especially because I could do it, I did it initially in in secrecy, right? Like I started attending calls and talking to coaches and joining online communities, and I didn't share it with anybody in my life because I still had all that shame and all that, I still was, you know, wanted that facade of everything is okay.
SPEAKER_00It makes me think about like presenting that facade of everything's okay at the expense of your own interior needs or um being reluctant to present a quote problem to the people that you love. And what that underscores to me is like this very intense disregard for self and self-worth. And I know that was a huge part of my experience was I had I presented this like very confident um outward appearance, and I, you know, had these accolades and this recognition and professional success, and you know, like all the trappings that come with that, and like all of that. But at the end of the day, I had a very low opinion of myself, um, because I well, a I didn't really know myself, and B, like I think part of my whole thing was drinking, let me just self-obliterate and just not be with myself, and because I didn't know how to be with myself. I don't know. But the the underlying idea that like you need to hit some kind of egregious rock bottom, or that you don't have a problem unless you're causing harm to other people just decenters the self and self-worth and the individual experience of this. And it's just another way that alcohol keeps us so isolated, it's another way that kind of it goes in alignment with the idea that oh, I'm the only one out here thinking about this, or I'm the only one out here that feels this way. I used to I used to really think that too, right? Like I used to really think that there were people who were alcoholics and they went to AA or were drinking under a bridge, and then there were normal drinkers who could just do whatever they wanted, and I looked like a quote normal drinker, but I felt like I should be going to AA, but I knew I couldn't because that wasn't my thing, right? And so there are so many people in exactly that situation. Um, but you know what? We don't talk about it because we don't think that we're worthy of help in those situations, too.
SPEAKER_01So I think that's so true. And I think you know, when you were talking about how you kind of you didn't have the the the self um, you know, your relationship with yourself or you didn't feel worthy enough maybe to do the things. I think I think I also felt that, but I wasn't even aware that I felt that, you know, it was like I would the drinking that I was doing was to alleviate uncomfortable feelings, but I never like allowed them to come to the surface enough to understand what they were, you know. If I felt uncomfortable, if I felt sadness or grief or loneliness or resentment or something, I I just immediately had a drink. And so I never got to understand like why do I feel that? Because outwardly, like you, my life was great. I mean, I had a loving husband, I had two beautiful daughters, we lived a very nice lifestyle, living overseas as expats. I had tons of friends, you know, it didn't like it made no sense to me. It was like, so then again, it goes to like blaming and shaming self. Like, what could something must be really wrong with you, Ellen? That you have all of this and yet you can't be happy enough to enjoy it. Like, and instead of like getting curious, which is what we I learned to do later, like, well, that's strange, you know. Why is it that you have everything that you ever wanted and you're not happy? Instead of being like, what the hell is wrong with you? You have everything that you it's a very different approach, right? Like when I started to like get curious and and actually like not drink over a feeling to be able to get in touch, get intimate with that feeling. What is that feeling? Why is that there? What is it telling me? Where did that come from? When did I start feeling? You know, all of those things that were so unfamiliar to me and that by the way are a little hard to do alone. Like, I, you know, it's a great when you're in that stage, it's a great time to have a coach or have a community or have a trusted someone that you can talk to about it because, you know, we think that we can talk ourselves or it think ourselves out of anything, but um, because we're smart, I mean, I'm I I consider myself a smart person, so I'm like, I can figure this out, but there's something, there's just something about being able to share it with another human being and have it reflected back that's that just changes things. It just does. I've experienced it again and again in my own work, on my own self and with clients. And it doesn't have to be with a coach, like it could be with anyone, but just like having that, you know, ability to exhale, you know, get it out of the system and into the universe instead of just circulating in the system. Um, but I wasn't, you know, I don't think I even really realized all of the feelings of shame, blame, and self-doubt that I had until I took a break, a proper break from alcohol, which I could only do once I got some help. So it's like an insidious little cycle there.
SPEAKER_00Which you were just talking about with um sharing the experience and be connecting with other people, engaging with community. It reminds me of the requirement that we have for a sympathetic witness, I think is what they talk about it in like trauma circles of that lets us carry or process through things in ways that we aren't able to do on our own, right? When things happen to us, we experience overwhelming emotions in our systems. We literally look to other people to help us move that through our bodies, right? So that they can see and bear witness to what we're going through. And if you're finding that your life is getting smaller and smaller and more isolated and more lonely and more disconnected, then you are in a situation where you can't move through those things and you can't kind of kick start that healing. Um, and that's just another thing that alcohol tends to do to a lot of people is it keeps us very isolated, very disconnected. Um, and it's it's just part of the trap.
SPEAKER_01No, I was thinking about in prayer preparing for this episode, I did have like a relatively presented, like my drinking wasn't really impacting me very well, very much, very badly, right? So I I had that. And and there were times, of course. I mean, alcohol is alcohol. Of course, I overdrank to the point sometimes where I acted in an embarrassing way or a silly way or or something. And I um I have this one memory. We were living in Seoul at the time. I mean, this was probably 15 years ago, and um there was a work event for my husband's job that they were there was going to be cocktails and food, and it was like a going-away party for somebody senior. And um, so I met with a girlfriend prior to the event, just down the street from the event, and we got our nails done with a bottle of wine. So, and this was probably five o'clock, right? And so I I hadn't eaten since lunch, probably. We split this bottle of wine, I probably had more than she did. I get into the event, I've had my first drink, maybe a second, and then the speeches start. And I, I mean, this is one of my cringe moments that I still think about to this day, right? That that now I can give myself grace for. But it was like the speeches are starting, and I'm having this side conversation because I'm drunk and tipsy and happy, you know. I I think I'm funny and all the things, and we're, you know. And I can remember my husband having to grab my arm and shoot me a look, like, this is not the time or place for this business right now, Ellen. You know, and and I, I mean, my instant reaction was anger, like what your pro, you know, like, but then shame, you know, blame and then shame. Like, and then I and then, you know, and then I I did, I reined myself in. I was like, oh my God, what, you know, it was like one of those moments of like, wow, like this is you know, anyway, it would shatter the image that I had created of perfect, happy family, perfect, happy drinking, no problem, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And um, and so as a result of that evening, I came home and I was like, I know what to do. Guardrail. I will never behave like that at a work event ever, you know? I will never, and and that kind of worked, right? That kind of worked. So it's like, again, it's so but what it meant was that I didn't want to go to work events. I, you know, I got nervous around that. I I just started drinking more at home because I was like, well, I don't want to embarrass anybody. I don't want to embarrass Chris, I don't want to embarrass myself in front of people. And so it was an example of like in in order to protect this perfect exterior persona, I'm not hurting anybody, in order to not hurt anybody, we shrink. We shrink our life, we shrink our every our behaviors, we shrink our what we're willing to share. And so it just, it's like isolate, isolate, isolate in order to protect this perfect image that we have. And and I I just and I didn't do the it didn't cause me to do the internal thing that you're talking about that's so important, right? It just was like I found a way to get around it, you know. But what it ended up doing was hurt me that much more because it isolated me more. I I had all that shame and I didn't know what to do with it. I I came up with a solution that, you know, it worked to to perpetuate the the image that was keeping me stuck. And I just I don't know, it's just so insidious.
SPEAKER_00Well, it like it worked to perpetuate the image at the cost of your own piece, but it also protected the drinking habit, right? Like I I'm not going to like when you put up a guardrail like that, it's not like uh, hmm, maybe alcohol is the problem or alcohol is to blame. No, no, no. I need to protect my ability to keep drinking alcohol. So I'll put this guardrail in place to keep me safe from having an incident that might result in somebody else going, hey, maybe you should quit drinking alcohol.
SPEAKER_01Oh my gosh, yes. So true. Like, thank you for saying that because it's it's yeah, that's exactly what it is, right? It's like, and and I did that like for sure. Like I I built my life around how to protect this relationship with alcohol that I deemed as essential to my survival, to my identity, to all the things.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I was thinking about that with um my own story with how much I was keeping from Beth about how much I was suffering, right? Like if I'd told her really how much pain I was going through, I told myself that I didn't want to burden her with that. But I think. On some level, I also knew that if I shared that with her, then she'd be like, Well, stop, right? Like, and then, oh, I'd have a real problem, then, right? Like, then I'd have to actually confront what alcohol was doing in my life. Um, and I was, I was, I was, it's so funny because I was talking to Beth about that this morning, and she was like, the other, the other side of it too. I was the other side of it too, is that she was like, I'm a fully grown woman. Like, I, you know, have been navigating difficult things for my entire life. I'd have been fine. You know, it's like the story that we have to protect other people from our deep darkness, right? It's it's almost a little bit like self-aggrandizing just how much of an impact it would have on them. But the almost like subconscious desire to protect the drinking habit or to is is being served by our more palatable, altruistic um bent to protect the people around us, right? Like it's more palatable, it's more altruistic, it's more noble if I'm keeping this to myself because my darkness is too much for anyone else to see, right? Like that sounds like heroic, but in actuality, like everybody's gonna be fine. And what is that it's allowing you to continue to not confront the things that you might need to confront? Um, and I was just so struck by that because it's we're so good at twisting around um our our beliefs and our motivations and things like that. And it's another good example of why it's good to have trusted people in your corner to talk through this. Because if you have somebody in your corner that can like see that and then be like, hey, are you sure it's not this? Right? Like you just kind of confronts you with an inconvenient or difficult truth, then it could really shorten the timeline for you for taking back control of your life.
SPEAKER_01Oh God, everything you said, I I mean, this is something I still it it's a pattern that showed up in my drinking, but that's a pattern that I've I'm I'm realizing now through the continued work that I do on myself, like that's a pattern that I have had since childhood. It's a pattern that I had through my drinking, it's a pattern that I have now when I'm not drinking anymore. This belief that if I somehow can't resolve things for people or be the person they need me to be, that that's that that person is going to suffer. And I don't want anybody I love to suffer. And it's such a self-aggrandizing. And I think of myself as being like the opposite of that, right? So it's confronting to be like, oh my gosh, like who do you think you are, Ellen? You think you can control other people's emotions and feelings? And you think because you behave a certain way that they are going to feel happy and loved and cared for. And like I I think I can control that, you know? And so that, but and that was such a part of the drinking, too, because the thing that I'm learning through all of this is that of course I can't control how someone else feels. No matter what I do. We all, the only person who can control how we feel is ourselves. Like, and likewise, no one can make me feel a certain way. This has been something I've had to work on. Like, oh, he said that. He made me angry. No, you know, what how I am responding to the thing that he said makes me angry, you know, like taking responsibility for my own emotion, but also allowing, you know, giving the responsibility back to the other person that they are also responsible for their own emotion. And that is like next level work, right? That continues because again, like we said on a previous episode, the drinking is not actually the problem, it's the solution we found for the original problem we had. And it's just a crappy solution, and it only works for a certain amount of time and then it stops working. So it's just so interesting.
SPEAKER_00It really is. There's so much to unpack with all that. Like the the idea that we are sovereign unto ourselves and that we don't need to be messing with or taking responsibility for or trying to control other people's emotions is a huge one. And then sometimes I'll say this, and I fear that people will hear, like, oh, well, just be a self-centered narcissistic butthead, right? Like, obviously, that's not what I'm saying. Obviously, we care about the people around us, but we have to know where we start and end and where they start and end. And operating within those parameters, like, where are you the most powerful? Where are you the most efficacious? Where are you the uh the most in control? It's it begins and ends right here. And it's very, very it's humbling, it's a big responsibility, um, but it's also really empowering. And it's also enough, right? Like if you really decided to focus on just taking care of how you showed up, the things that you were thinking, the things that you were saying, the if you took a responsibility, dare I say, for what you were feeling as a result of what other people were doing, you wouldn't have time to be in anybody else's business. Um, but it's much more attractive to try to go outside of ourselves and do and be for other people than it is to roll up our sleeves and work where the work really needs to happen.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I feel like this this part of this conversation deserves a whole nother episode because there's so much in there about like circle of control, right? I mean, this idea of who we can only really control ourselves. Yes, then we there's a circle of influence. We do influence the people around us. And then there's things that we'd have no influence over at all, right? And we get swayed and moved around and tossed around by those things, and really starting to understand like what, where, where is my control, where is my influence, where is there no control at all, and and bringing the focus like to your point, bring it back to the things that we can control because that's where we have efficacy, you know. So it and and there's a lot to to work on right there, right? We don't really need to be in everybody else's business working on their stuff, like we just working on our own.
SPEAKER_00That's another interesting layer of this whole idea that if my drinking doesn't harm other people, then it's okay or there's no problem, is the way that we show up and how much we do or don't take responsibility for ourselves directly opens up new or different ways for other people to then respond to us. And so if I am showing up and showing that it's possible to have self-regard, and if it's possible for me to have self-respect or to not be influenced by the people around us, even the people that we love, then it makes that possible for them too. Like I think, you know, this might be a poor demonstration, but like I've got my microphone cord here. If I pull something one way, what naturally happens, it has to snap back, it has to swing the other way. If I'm doing something, it invites a certain reaction. And so taking care that I'm showing up in my best self and I'm showing up in a way that isn't designed from the top to control or protect other people, then enables them to have a different experience, if that makes sense.
SPEAKER_01Uh yes. I I was thinking of the example of I I um I'm I've been married a long time, 25, 6 years. And my husband has a habit of he exercises regularly. He always has, he he prioritizes it. It's his mental health thing that he does for himself, although I don't think I even realized that initially. I just thought he liked to run and now he likes to cycle. And um there was a a lot of time in our relationship that I resented that because he would always do it, always prioritize no matter what was going on. And and I made a story about what that meant. And then what ended up happening through all of this work is I had this realization that my gosh, he's doing the thing that I probably needed all along, which was to take an hour for myself on a daily basis, whether I wanted to run or do something else, didn't matter. Like take to prioritize my needs for an hour every day. And he was a much better. I mean, the days that he could exercise, he was, you know, a much healthier, better, happier, more productive, you know, just better mood, all the things person. Like I, it was good that he did that. I even I could see that, yet I resented it instead of like when I kind of started doing this work, I was like, oh my gosh, what he's showing me is I also have permission to do that. Like I saw it as like, well, you have that, and I can't have it, you know. But when we and then, and then I started taking that time for myself. And then it like shifted the dynamic of our relationship a little bit, where and and you know, he understood it. Like in my mind, I was like, well, if I do that, he's gonna be annoyed or upset or take on have to take on extra responsibility. And he was like, Oh my god, I know, isn't it great? Like to have an hour to yourself. And I had built up this whole thing in my head, you know. So it's like when when we when we make a shift like that, something's bound to happen, you know. I mean, not all of it's gonna be good as a response, but often it's better than we imagine. We're always so afraid of the worst case scenario that we're gonna shift something and then things are gonna, you know, all go to the heck in a handbasket. And but you often it's more like it starts a healing, you know, circle cycle.
SPEAKER_00I can't tell you over the years how many things I wanted to do, but didn't do because I had this story in my head that Beth would resent me for doing something that she didn't want to do with me, right? Like go to a particular concert, go see a certain movie, go like do a thing to myself. And then what happened was I would not do those things, not tell her about it, and then I'd feel resentful. And she did ask for that, she didn't set that up. Uh, but nevertheless, like that's that was the end result.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I yeah, me too. Me too. And I think it's just it's again, it's that like kind of what you were saying earlier, this kind of self-aggrandized image. We have a pattern of, and that came from somewhere, you know, like we figured out at an early age that if we did certain things, our family dynamic would, you know, whatever. We're not crazy for that. Like, and that's something to unpack too. Um, but it leads to this false idea that we can somehow control other people's states, you know. And um, and that's a that's a really precarious place to be because we try so hard, because we love people, to create get get them into, you know, to control their state, we want it to be a positive state, right? And when so then when anybody gets angry or anybody gets sad or anybody struggles and we feel so out of control, that perpetuates the whole drinking, right? So it's just for me in my particular scenario, but I am 100% sure I'm not alone because I've heard this af again and again and again, like that was a cycle that it unpacking that was an essential piece of the whole puzzle of me.
SPEAKER_00Ellen, we love to close out our episodes with something practical for people who make it all the way through here. So a big theme that I've picked up in our conversation is how do we stop taking over responsibility for the people in our lives, right? Like if if if my own feeling about my drinking is so related to other people, how do I start to, what's a practical way for me this week to start to figure out where I am and where they are, and to to start to see or experiment with some healthy differentiation?
SPEAKER_01That is uh such a good question. Um a small practical thing to do. I'm gonna punt and give it back to you while I think of something.
SPEAKER_00I think that one of the biggest things that you can do when you're starting to learn how to be in healthy differentiation with the people around you is to pause and notice. I like to do the weight technique for um fighting a craving, but I think that the weight technique for responding to your loved ones is also really, really effective. So the weight technique that I talk about sometimes and I've I've shared it before on this podcast, W A I T, what am I thinking? And build in a little bit of time in between a stimulus from your loved one and how you respond. So, for instance, to kind of put it back into very concrete domestic bliss, right? Your spouse, it's the end of a long day, and your spouse asks you to do the dishes, and you've been working all day and they haven't been punching a clock. Wait, what am I thinking? Notice what is the story that's attached to that? Um, how are you feeling? How are you like initially primed to respond? Do you need to um do you need to immediately act on those feelings? You know, like can you is there a better, more healthful for the relationship um way to show up through that encounter, right? Like, can you get to a spot of uh thoughtful, compassionate understanding for where they're coming from? Is this something that you do need to say something about? Or like is it as charged, maybe as you might be thinking it is? Does your partner understand the context with which you're receiving that information in the context of your busy day or whatever, right? Like, is this a right now crisis or is this a get around to it later crisis? Right? Like just giving yourself a beat, examining how you are initially feeling, and then seeing if you can assert some kind of control over that or at least curiosity about where those feelings are coming from can be extraordinarily instructive.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, all of that is is brilliant. I I think the only thing that I would like a little thing that I could add to that that might be useful is I I I used to, and it still happens sometimes, like my husband would be in a mood about something, right? And because I have a pattern of believing that I can am responsible for and can control other people's moods, I would create a story that, oh God, what did I do that irritated him? Like, what can I do to fix this? And a coach actually shared, you know, shared this observation with me that you know, do you really know what's going on with him? Like just because he walked in the room and he is behaving, like so like ask yourself, do I really know? Like, I believe all that. And a really simple thing to do is ask. Like, so I have started being like, wow, you you seem, you know, a little on on edge or ups upset or irritated. Like, what's going on? Did I is it something to do with me or is it something to do with something else? And I mean, nine times out of ten, it's completely unrelated to me. And I have made it all about me, you know. Oh, I must have done something. And you know, maybe it just got off the phone with someone, or maybe he is tired, maybe his foot hurts. Who knows what it is, right? And I am constantly making it all about me. So, you know, just to take a beat and be like, hmm, do I really know what this is about? And can I, you know, assuming you have a a safe, loving partner, can I just get some clarity and and ask? And it has, I mean, just that alone has diffused so many of my emotional spin outs. Cause I'm like, huh, okay, then that's something I don't need to worry about, right?
SPEAKER_00Like, is it a kind of a relief to realize that it's not all about you?
SPEAKER_01Oh my gosh, it is such a relief.
SPEAKER_00Oh I that story is so relatable because I absolutely used to do the same thing. Like, if anything was if there was a furrow on the brow, right? I'm like, oh my god, this is it's definitely about me. I wonder what I did. And then it would also be like, but I'm great. Why is she mad at me with all the things that I do? She doesn't appreciate me, and then I'm in a mood, right? Like, and guess what? It had nothing to do with any of that, right? Like, it's so ridiculous. And so it's become a norm for our it's become a norm for our relationship. If one of us is like, we'll just say, Yeah, I'm in kind of a funky mood. Or like, if we don't know, like, hey, is this about did I do anything wrong? Or you know, do you want to talk about anything? No, it's something else, cool, right? Like, I I'm here for you if you want to talk about it, right? Like, and it's just that that norm, completely revolutionary.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and that takes practice, you know, you're not gonna get it right, it might be messy in the beginning, it might be a little uncomfortable, it might be, but like anything, it takes practice. And I was just gonna say that something drinking complicates that even more because quite often we we immediately go to, I must have done something when I was drinking, I must have said something, I'm worried about our drinking. You know, come to find out my husband wasn't worried about my drinking at all, right? Like, so I all of that that I had built up. And so, yeah, again, just just gently with curiosity, ask.
SPEAKER_00Such good advice. All right, Ellen, that's it for this week's episode of the Alcohol Myth Podcast. Thank you all for listening.
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SPEAKER_01And I've been Ellen. Great to be with you.
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