The Alcohol Myth Podcast features certified coaches Ellen and Jonathan having real conversations about alcohol, sobriety, and reclaiming a life that feels exciting to wake up to.
Is it harder to quit drinking or keep drinking? The honest math on both columns.
You have already priced out what quitting would cost you. The Friday nights, the explanations, the evenings with nothing in your hand. What nobody prices is the other column: the arithmetic running all day, the planning, the recovery hours, the low-grade "less than good" you stopped calling a hangover because it never fully lifts.
That comparison is rigged. You are weighing a cycle you know intimately against a life you have never lived. Your only data on not drinking comes from the times you wanted a drink and could not get one, and you project that one uncomfortable hour across the rest of your life. Ellen Biggs spent years doing exactly that, certain not drinking would be unbearable, while overlooking that the cycle was already unbearable and simply familiar. The choice was never hard versus easy. The choice is which hard has an end.
What settles it is data rather than motivation. Every stretch of alcohol-free days gives you something real to compare against, and it is the only evidence that answers it. Ellen's verdict, once she had enough of it: her life was more manageable without alcohol, and for someone who dislikes doing hard things, not drinking was the least expensive option on the table. Moderation, the sensible-sounding middle path, was the most expensive of the three.
The hard part also ends, which is what the cycle never offers. Research cited on the episode puts a craving at roughly twenty minutes. Two or three strong ones on a bad day is an hour out of twenty-four, and each one you ride out makes the next one cheaper. Jonathan Ball calls these FFTs, the freaking first times, and the point of a first time is that it stops being first.
Try the inventory this week. What is drinking costing you mentally, physically, financially and relationally, and what would move into that space if it were gone?
Work with Jonathan: https://livecreativeaf.com/ | Work with Ellen: https://ellenbiggscoaching.com/
CHAPTERS 00:00 The myth: quitting is the hard part 02:46 What the cycle already costs you 05:32 Projecting today onto future you 08:18 The alcohol math that never stops 11:04 Comparing the data both ways 13:50 Why moderation is the hardest option 16:36 Alcohol made the hard things harder 19:22 More easy hours than hard ones 22:08 FFTs and the first Friday without it 24:54 100 days is a blip in time 27:40 Take the inventory, then dream bigger
FROM THIS EPISODE "Not drinking is the easiest of all the options for me."
QUESTIONS THIS EPISODE ANSWERS
Q: Is it harder to quit drinking or to keep drinking? A: Quitting drinking is harder for a short, defined stretch, while continuing is harder with no end date. The cycle carries daily mental arithmetic, physical recovery and no finish line, whereas the effort of stopping drops off measurably as your brain builds new patterns and cravings lose their intensity.
Q: How long do alcohol cravings last? A: Alcohol cravings last around twenty minutes, according to research cited on the episode. Even a difficult day usually holds two or three strong ones, so the genuinely hard part is roughly an hour out of twenty-four, and every craving you ride out makes the next one cheaper.
Q: Why is moderation harder than quitting drinking? A: Moderation is harder than quitting because it keeps the decision permanently open. Every occasion needs a fresh negotiation about how much, when to stop, and whether you are still managing it, so the mental effort never ends and the desire is never actually resolved.
Q: Does it get easier to stop drinking over time? A: Stopping drinking does get easier over time, and the change is physical rather than motivational. As alcohol-free days accumulate your brain forms new pathways, so what took real effort at thirty days takes almost none by sixty, and the desire fades into the background.
You do not need to wait for rock bottom. You do not need more willpower. You just need a new way to understand what you are feeling and why you are reaching for the next drink.
If this episode resonates, please like, share, subscribe, and leave a comment with what stood out to you. We would love to hear what you want more of.
Send your questions, stories, or ideas for future episodes to thealcoholmyth@gmail.com. We read every message. We really do.
CONNECT WITH US Email: thealcoholmyth@gmail.com Jonathan Ball, CreativeAF Coaching: https://livecreativeaf.com/ Ellen Biggs Coaching: https://ellenbiggscoaching.com/
LISTEN ANYWHERE Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-alcohol-myth-podcast/id1861472231 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7DzVqvW3ZkyV80jDYDSOjt Amazon Music: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/88964cf0-2b6f-4976-9676-2aa8a36d25be All episodes: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2562590
Subscribe for more episodes pulling back the curtain on the alcohol myth.
We have to you have to learn new skills. You have to try new things. But there is a little bit of like uh light at the end of the tunnel. There, there, there, there is a point where things start to get easier. And when you're in the cycle of drinking every day, every day, and not making any changes, there there is no that that's groundhog day every day, all day long, you know? And there is no point where it gets easier.
SPEAKER_01
Why does the world act like alcohol is the answer, even while it is creating problems of its own?
SPEAKER_00
On the alcohol myth podcast, we pull back the curtain so you can see what's really going on with alcohol and what life could be like without it.
SPEAKER_01
We are coaches trained in this naked mind and effective liminal psychology who fell for the alcohol myth for decades. Now we help people take back control of their lives by changing their relationship with alcohol from the inside out.
SPEAKER_00
You don't need to wait for a rock bottom. You don't need more willpower. You just need a new way to understand what you are feeling and why you are reaching for that next drink.
SPEAKER_01
So let's dig in.
SPEAKER_00
Hey Jonathan, great to see you.
SPEAKER_01
It's wonderful to see you. And today we are tackling the myth that it's harder to quit drinking than it is to keep drinking. We tell ourselves this big story about just how hard it's going to be to quit or cut back on alcohol. And we oftentimes overlook just how difficult it is to keep up a relationship with alcohol. Um, we're thinking about the physical toll, we're thinking about the mental toll, and we're giving ourselves uh a little permission to examine the thought that, ooh, it's gonna be so hard to cut back or quit. Um, so in the vein of this topic, Ellen, what what comes up for you?
SPEAKER_00
I know that this was something that really kept me stuck for a really long time because I really, really believed that not drinking was going to be incredibly difficult. I mean, just the fact just getting through a day without drinking was difficult for me, right? And then the thought of like, well, how am I gonna do all the things without alcohol? How am I gonna, you know, how how am I gonna all the things we talk about on this podcast all the time. How am I gonna socialize? How am I gonna relax? How am I gonna, you know, and so then it's like, well, that is that sounds really daunting and difficult. So I think I'm just gonna keep drinking because that's easier. And I think what I failed to see with that mindset was just how hard it was to stay in that cycle of beating myself up, of the physical toll, the mental toll, the mental math of the gymnastics all the time. How much am I gonna drink? When am I gonna drink? When am I gonna stop drinking? I really need to stop drinking, you know, all of those things that were really, really hard. Um, uh when I weigh it out now, I can look at it and be like, oh my God, being stuck in that cycle is way harder than starting the process of building the muscles that you need to be alcohol-free. But I I couldn't see it at the time. And I was just thinking about that, like, how can we shed a light on that for people that might be in that same mindset of just how freaking hard it's gonna be to make this change?
SPEAKER_01
It's really hard when you're drinking more than you want to, and then trying to visualize a life without it, because it's almost like the there's the belief there, if you have this relationship with alcohol and you know that it's that's so necessary for life, it feels it feels very impossible to imagine a life where it's easy to not have it, because you know, viscerally in your body, all the times where you've wanted it and not been able to immediately access it, right? Like I can think of times when I was drinking more than I wanted to, but I wasn't not drinking, and being somewhere and wanting a drink, but not being able to get one. Oh, the discomfort in that. And so you take that moment and you project that onto the rest of your life, and it becomes very scary and it seems very daunting. How do you even start to imagine a change? I don't know that I would have had the framework to imagine just how good it is on the other side.
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, that's such a good point that it's like we we're basing off, we're basing our experience of what being without alcohol will feel like based on what our current level of understanding of not being able to get alcohol when we want it and need it. And we think, well, that is gonna be brutal. Like, I don't, you know, I don't want to sign up for that. Not seeing that, you know, there is a period of time where effort is required, where we have to learn the tools, where we have to practice, where where, you know, there uh we're not gonna sit here and tell you that it's like easy peasy, like get on board, baby, you know, because of course it's not. We have to you have to learn new skills, you have to try new things. But there is a little bit of like uh light at the end of the tunnel. There, there, there, there is a point where things start to get easier. And when you're in the cycle of drinking every day, every day and not making any changes, there there is no that that's Groundhog Day every day, all day long, you know? And there there is no point where it gets easier.
SPEAKER_01
I was talking to one of my clients about this actually, like literally last night, where he was kind of projecting into the future, oh my gosh, like, you know, what if I get you know X number of days, and then we've got the holidays coming up, like what am I gonna be thinking about? Like, am I am I gonna lose all the forward progress that I made? And mind you, this was before, you know, that much progress had been made, right? Like we're already we're making progress, but we're not at the you know, it's easy part. And so he's projecting his current reality onto his future self. And I had to point out to him like the version of you that's going to meet that challenge is totally different and has a totally different mindset and a totally different relationship with alcohol than you do right now. Let that future version of you worry about that future problem and focus on your effort, your attention, your energy, your hope, your optimism on setting up now you for success.
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, so true. And and and we've, I mean, how hard is it to live in the present moment, period, right? I mean, this is like humankind's uh biggest dilemma. We're always looking to the past, we're looking to the future. And so just staying in this present moment and recognizing that you know, the the hard thing that needs to happen today is not drinking, right? Like if we can just keep it real, real simple, right? Like the the the if my one and only thing that I have to do to start to make progress on my relationship with drinking is today not drink. And and there were plenty of days for me that that felt hard and daunting. But if you can kind of narrow it down to that, it's like, okay, I I think unless you know we're talking somebody that's real physically addicted to alcohol, most people can with enough um intention and planning and you know, scheduling and things, going to bed early, eating a pine of ice cream, like figure out a way, you know, to get through an evening without drinking. And then it's like we need to go from there to recognizing that there takes effort there, but we don't want to discount all of the the effort that it would have taken to to drink that day. Like the planning that takes, the time it takes, the the cost it has. That I don't know, I'm not I'm not being very eloquent with my thoughts right here, but it's like there there is we we focus so much on the hard part of the not drinking that we forget all the the effort it takes to keep that cycle going when there's no end in sight.
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I I think about this as um doing the alcohol math, right? Like you're constantly, if you're drinking more than you want to, you're constantly thinking, have I have I had enough? How when will I have enough? Can I get another drink? Where's that drink going to come from? Am I gonna be able to drive home? You know, it does this person notice how much I'm drinking, right? Like, do I have a problem? The mental clutter and energy and effort that goes into maintaining a relationship with alcohol, especially when you start to suspect that maybe you don't have a good relationship with alcohol, is enormous. And like that's just the mental clarity part, not to mention the physical toll that drinking more than you want to cost you. Like, I can think of so much time that I've lost just feeling like crap, and even if I wasn't feeling like crap crap, feeling less than good, right? Like that still counts, that's still uncomfortable, that's still hard. And to force yourself to keep going forward and keep living life and keep up social appearances and keep working in your profession and to do all that with the burden of feeling like poopy, like that's it's it's really hard to keep drinking.
SPEAKER_00
Yeah. I one of the reasons I was thinking about this too is I I I don't think anybody that knows me very well would say that I am someone that likes to do hard things. Like I am, I am not. I mean, I you know, I've always kind of prided myself on that a little bit. Like if there's an easier way, I'm gonna take it. You know, I mean, my husband is the one that likes to do really intense things, really hard things, and I'm always like, let's what's the you know, shortcut? And so I started to think about, well, why, you know, if drink giving up drinking is a really hard thing for me, for most people, you know, why how did how did that happen? Like, how did that happen for me? And I I think I started to there was a tipping point in my year of exploration around drinking where I started to be able to get a week, two weeks, three weeks alcohol free. And then I would go back to drinking and I would be drinking for a week, two weeks, three weeks, four weeks. And then I would, you know, go back to like taking a break from alcohol for a few days and I would drink. And I think there was a tipping point in there where I started to I started to be able to compare the data, you know, and see that actually the the effort and the the the toll, the hard was when I was drinking. It was less hard. My life was less was less hard. My life was more manageable when I was not drinking. And it took having those stints of alcohol-free time to be able to see that and experience it and feel it and know it for myself, to be able to then be like, okay, like if I'm the person who doesn't really like to do hard things, I think the easier path for me is gonna be not drinking. And, you know, I tried to keep moderation. I tried, you know, you know, and moderation was flipping hard, right? To try and figure out exactly how much I can drink and not fall into a pattern of drinking every day again. Like, so for someone who doesn't really like to do hard things, like not drinking is the easiest of all the options for me. It just is.
SPEAKER_01
Oh, I love that. And I love that you brought up moderation because it sounds like this like mystical middle ground where you can have what you want, but not too much now. And moderation is by far, in my experience, the hardest place to be in. Like, if you're not somebody who is unfortunately living under a bridge or something, then having some alcohol in your life and not fighting it, or having zero alcohol in your life is probably easier than trying to walk the line and moderating because you're constantly at war with yourself. You're caught talk about the the alcohol math, mental clutter bullcrap hoops that you're gonna have to jump through to justify moderation. It's exhausting. And having done it for years, right? Like I know how hard it is.
SPEAKER_00
Yeah. And it's hard to, of course, we want to we want to believe that in that middle way. And, you know, we see examples in our life. Like my husband can have a drink. I think your wife too, have a drink here or there. But I don't equate that to the same thing as someone who over-drank for years and years and years and then tries to moderate with someone who's never really cared that much about alcohol and uses it in a very different way than I did. You know, I think those are comparing apples to oranges. So for me to want to introduce, well, I wouldn't even want it because I don't, there's nothing about alcohol I want. But say I, you know, I saw what he had and I'm like, oh, that would be intriguing. Um, it it wouldn't be like that. I mean, I just and it's not that I think I'm some flawed person. I think I my body has adapted to alcohol in a way that my brain would be like, yeah, I, you know, more of that. And I like the thought of introducing it back into my life and what that would, the havoc that would re that would be so hard. Like, and it's not that I'm pining away for that either. I want to make that very clear. Like, I I, you know, when he drinks and then he wakes up in the morning hung over, I'm always like, oh honey, like I'm sorry you had to have that experience.
SPEAKER_01
I love what you said about the like, it's not because of any kind of flaw or anything, but it's just like biology at this point. Like, I know that for decades I ran neural wires through my brain that was like alcohol good, more alcohol, more better, right? And I'm not interested in putting any more fuel on those like hardwired things, and those wires just don't exist for my wife, right? Like that was it just that's not her thing, right? Um, I think it's a it's a that disposition, I think. Um, I'm not gonna say personality trait, but like that disposition has been part of my life from the beginning, right? Like if I'm somebody who's like all or nothing, right? Like I'm very much like all or nothing mentality, and in a lot of ways that's great, and in some ways it's not great. And when I was drinking more than I wanted to, it was not great because I had to tell myself that um when I was on the all side of the all or nothing, trying to imagine the nothing side was so scary. And I wish that I could go back in time and show myself from back then how good the nothing side is. Because, in the absence of desire, if you can just zero in and excise the desire for the drink in the first place, you're just not suffering. And that's one of the big differences in our approach to changing alcohol than traditional recovery or 12 steps or anything like that.
SPEAKER_00
So the other thing that I was thinking about was like the for me, going back to this idea that I don't really like to do hard things, I like it when things are easier. Um, if that's that's maybe my disposition, right? And um I think that one of the things that I used alcohol for was to avoid hard things in my life, right? So, you know, if if you're someone that is feeling like, well, if I gave up alcohol, facing, I don't know, things about myself, things about my job, about my relationship, about whatever, my situation would feel feels overwhelming, feels stressful, feels hard. So that's a reason why I'm keeping alcohol in my life. I think what I only discovered on the other side of it is that all of the everything that I perceived as hard in my life was being made more difficult, was being exacerbated by my drinking, whether it be at my active drinking or the physical state I was in as a result of my drinking, just the fragility I felt, the the you know, mood swings, the poor sleep, the all of that made my life feel hard. And I was using alcohol to manage that. And so, like recognizing that what you perceive as hard about your life, yes, you will be confronted with it when you no longer use alcohol to avoid it. And you will have the opportunity to try and make some changes in in that hard life, or you know, get the opportunity to see that maybe it isn't as bad as you thought, maybe it is as bad as you thought. But like we've talked about before, like, wouldn't you rather know instead of staying in the groundhog day of just, you know, put my head in the sand?
SPEAKER_01
I love that point. Alcohol for so many of us, myself included, was a way to avoid problems or cope with the discomfort the problems are creating. And what problem has ever magically gotten better because you've avoided confronting it? That's never happened in the history of the universe, right? Like it it's it's thermodynamics. It reminds me of the second law of thermodynamics that the level of entropy in a system always increases. And so things fall apart if you're not working on them or looking at them. And we use alcohol as a way to avoid looking at or working on the problems that we have. Meanwhile, laws of the universe are conspiring to make them worse. And when you stop using alcohol to avoid confronting what's bothering you, then life really does get better. It does get easier because the problems aren't getting worse and worse kind of in the background.
SPEAKER_00
Yeah. And I I think it's a tricky thing because until we experience having some time away from alcohol and getting to getting through the like, I don't know, first couple of weeks, first month, where it can take a lot of effort and it can feel like this this is kind of hard. But even in those first 30 days, I think most people I know, most people I've worked with, most people I've gone on this path with, for myself, even in the hardest of days to get through, there are more hours in the day where it's easier than it is hard. You know, like if you are really struggling in the beginning to take a, you know, 30-day break or a 21-day break or a seven-day break or whatever kind of break you want to do, and you have a, you know, quote unquote hard day, which is, you know, typically that period of time between, you know, whatever your witching hour is, you have strong cravings, you have to get through them, you have to make a plan, you have to, you know, make it to the night to your sober pillow. Like there may be some hard moments in there, but from the time that you, you know, go to bed, from the time that you, you know, and you wake up in the morning and you're like, oh, did I drink last night? No, oh my God. The the sense of relief, like that's not hard. Then you move into your morning, knowing that you're not like all whacked out because with a hangover. That's not hard. You know, you might start to have some thoughts around alcohol. Okay. You know, there's a little bit of hardness there. Let's let's agree with that. But like there, it when you weigh it out, it's I think we put the emphasis on how hard it's going to be in the moment of the craving, and we totally discount like the rest of the day that is blissfully, you know, like, thank God I didn't drink last night, right? The relief we feel.
SPEAKER_01
I love that point. We have such a capacity for, well, it's another thing that's baked in, right? Like we have negativity bias as human beings. We focus on the the hard or what's wrong or what per or what we perceive is dangerous. And it's the same exact thing, like you said, like the hardest point of your whole day is going to be when those cravings come up. And cravings from the literature, from the research, last about 20 minutes. And if you can get to the other side of 20 minutes, then they start to dissipate and mellow out, and you can, you know, like go about your day. So even if on a really bad day you have two or three cravings, really strong, bad cravings, at most we're talking about an hour or two for that day. And out of 22 hours, that's really not that much, especially when you know that you can get to the other side of it. And every time you do get to the other side of it, you are training yourself to learn that I can navigate this difficult scenario. And the next one gets easier, and the next one gets easier, and the next one gets easier.
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I mean, that goes back to the FFTs. Right. The freaking first times, like the I mean, again, the way our brain works, right? We have to, you know, build a new neural pathway, which takes effort, which is potentially hard. That's not drinking on a five o'clock on a Friday. Like the first time we do it, it's gonna feel brutally uncomfortable and potentially hard, right? But then the next Friday comes, you've done it once. You know you can do it, you have more confidence, it's easier. The next Friday comes, it's easier. And I don't know the exact research where it comes from, but I know there are there is evidence around this. And I've experienced it myself. Like you think that it's going to be as hard as it is the first time, every other time. And it just is not true. The way it drops in level of intensity of difficulty is, you know, our body just responds. Like that's the magical thing about our the neuroplasticity of our brains and and habit formation. Like our it does respond.
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I love that. Um, you do heal, you do change, and things do things do get easier over time. Um, and that's the good news, right? Like you, if you're experiencing a ton of difficulty right now, but you're committed to making a change, you're likely in the very trenches of change. Like this is the hardest point. And do you really want to go back and then have to retread the progress that you've made again? I promise you, as you start to get some alcohol-free days, it gets easier and easier as you go. And by the time you hit 30 days, by the time you hit 60 days, it starts to fade to the background. And what used to take a ton of mental effort takes almost none. And before you know it, you don't even desire the alcohol anymore because you've seen all of the amazing upsides that not having a relationship with alcohol has brought into your life.
SPEAKER_00
It's so true. And it makes me think about like, I can remember when I was drinking every all the time and have it really struggling with this, and keep hearing this idea of like 100 days. If you can get to 100 days, then things start to magically transform, which there does seem to be a magical kind of thing that happens around three months, 90 days, 100 days. That was true for me. Um, and so many people before me. Um, and at the time, I was like, a hundred days, like there, there, you know, that seemed so daunting, like so impossible. And I didn't, you know, my first time out, I did not get to a hundred days. I did not, I didn't even shoot for that because that felt way too big. But I think the idea that I want to drop is that a hundred days feels like forever. But in the span of your drinking life, like if a hundred days could lead to the rest of your life, not having to have this monkey on your back, not having to have this, you know, constant cognitive dissonance battle with yourself, being able to actually feel freedom from the desire to drink alcohol, like it's it's it's a it's a blip in time, you know, it's a it's a blip in time. And um, it doesn't feel like that in the moment. And I get that because it didn't feel like it to me. So I don't want to be like, it's no big deal. But like sometimes we need to hear it. That, you know, like if you just take that chance on yourself to be like, okay, I, you know, I can do anything for a week, I can do anything for a month, I can do anything for a hundred days. And it's not like a hundred days of pure torture either, you know, every day gets easier and easier.
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, yeah. Back to that idea that the person who's at 90 days is a totally different person and so much more equipped than the person with 10 days. And you have to, you have to go on the journey, right? Like you don't just arrive at the destination, the journey makes you the person who gets to have the easy life and gets to experience all of the upside, right? Like you have to embark on the journey. Um, so Ellen, how could somebody listening this deep into the episode make a practical adjustment in their life to uh act on the idea that it's actually harder to continue drinking than it is to quit?
SPEAKER_00
I would suggest doing an inventory of all the things that are hard about your current um relationship with alcohol. Like what is hard and um and the the cost it it it's has on you mentally, physically, financially, in relationships and um yeah, I mean and that can feel brutal and heavy and like it and I the last thing I want to do is make people like feel ashamed or like, oh my god, I'm doing this thing and look at all how terrible it is, because that is not useful at all. And I think it's also important to s to see fully, you know, because we we we tend to not want to see the full picture, not especially at five o'clock, right? And so, you know, and and comparing that to like what would it be like to experience hard discomfort for a couple of hours a day for a week? Like, what would that be like? And and just start to play around with that in your mind, like, you know, is it possible that I am believing that giving up alcohol is harder than drinking? And is it possible that that might be not not really the case?
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I think that it's so tempting to give alcohol a pass on so much of the harm that it does when you're nervous about changing your relationship with it. But what you're suggesting is getting clear about what it's costing you so that we can start to get excited about finding something that's better and comes at less of a cost. Um, my suggestion would be like do exactly that, right? Like take that inventory about the cost and then also get really excited about what could be possible in your life if alcohol wasn't a part of it anymore. Because just let your imagination run wild with what could, if in the absence of alcohol, what could fill that space in your life? You'd have a lot of time back, you'd have a lot of mental clarity back, you'd have a lot of capacity for connection back. Who might you become if you didn't outsource critical parts of yourself to this beverage, right? Um, and you know, kind of like look at the uh the sticks of alcohol and look at the carrots of what uh being free from its uh tendrils, its influence could bring into your life.
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, and sometimes we need to hear stories about, you know, what it's like for other people to be able to believe it's possible for for me, you know. And so I I know I listen to a ton of podcasts like these. Uh, you know, I mean, there are a lot of alcohol-free podcasts out there now with people talking about how amazing their lives are once giving it up. And I know this naked mind, their their series on this naked life, you know, I I must have listened to hundreds of those because, again, I just really needed to believe that it was possible that it would be easier and life would be better. Because it's hard to believe when you're in the throes of it. Like I totally, I totally get that. And and, you know, taking those first steps to start to get some alcohol-free data points to start to compare can start to tip the scales for you.
SPEAKER_01
Yeah. Get out there and tip those scales, folks. Um, this has been the Alcohol Myth Podcast. We appreciate you joining us. If you enjoyed the episode, or if you think of somebody that might enjoy the episode, share it widely. And we'd love to hear about what you think. Um, until next week, I've been Jonathan.
SPEAKER_00
I'm Ellen. Great to be with you all.
SPEAKER_01
Have a beautiful day. Thanks for listening to the Alcohol Myth Podcast.
SPEAKER_00
If this episode sparked something for you, we'd love to hear about it.
SPEAKER_01
Send your questions, stories, or ideas for future episodes to thealcoholmyth at gmail.com.
SPEAKER_00
We read every message. We really do.
SPEAKER_01
Take good care of yourself. We'll see you next time.
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