IN with Cassie
IN With Cassie is a safe space for women who want more from life - more vitally, more energy, more of the good stuff we need, to actually thrive and not just exist in survival mode. IN stands for Integrated Naturopathy and for opting IN to alignment, energy and a life well lived - daily!
Meet your host: Cassie is a Qualified Naturopath and clinical Nutritionist with years of experience in clinic and online. With a passion for supporting women from pre conception right through to peri menopause- Cassie is compassionate, evidence based and holistic all rolled into one. You are now IN session
https://www.cassiedavenport.com.au/
Follow Cassie ON Social here: https://www.instagram.com/cassiedavenport_naturopath/
IN with Cassie
Interoception, ADHD, Parenting & Perimenopause (Part 2)
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
This season of In With Cassie is The Evolution of You, and this episode is part two of Cassie's conversation with Mel from the Body Intuition Collective. If you have not listened to part one yet, go back and start there, because the two build on each other.
In this conversation you will learn how interoception can look different in neurodivergent people, and why a child who cannot sit still may actually be more tuned in to their body than the adults around them. Mel explains how proprioception and vestibular processing work alongside interoception, and why context is everything when you are trying to interpret what your body is telling you.
There is a rapid fire round at the end that you do not want to miss.
What You Will Learn in This Episode
How interoception presents differently in people with ADHD and autism, and why society often teaches children to override their body signals
The difference between interoception, proprioception and vestibular processing, and how all three work together
Why you might struggle to name an emotion when you cannot interpret the physical sensation underneath it
Mel's four step framework: notice, interpret, regulate, align
Why context is the cause, not the desk you are sitting at
How to build emotional vocabulary in yourself and your children beyond happy, sad and angry
What it means when a child seeks crashing, spinning, heavy lifting or weighted blankets, and how to respond
The three questions to ask yourself when you have no idea what your body is telling you
Breathwork options including box breathing, the physiological sigh and humming for vagal tone
Why movement, even shoulder rolls between meetings, tells your body it is safe
The biggest misconception about interoception, and why it is trainable at any age or life stage
Why your body will eventually choose rest for you if you do not choose it yourself
About Mel and the Body Intuition Collective
Mel is a physiotherapist and the founder of the Body Intuition Collective. Her foundational interoception and recalibration programs are built on a simple but powerful belief, that our bodies are not working against us, they are constantly communicating with us. The more we learn to listen, the better equipped we are to navigate stress, hormonal changes and life transitions with greater clarity, confidence and self compassion.
Connect with Melissa here on Instagram
Website: bodyintuitioncollective.com.au
Connect with Cassie
If there is a friend or someone you know who would benefit from this conversation, please forward this episode. It helps us immensely to get the message out.
If you have a topic you would like to talk to Cassie about, head over to Instagram and slide into her DMs
If this lands for you and you feel like you are in a tricky season and you would like some extra support, you do not have to figure this out on your own. Cassie offers one on one consults. Email for a free discovery call to make sure she is the right fit for you.
Cassie Davenport is an experienced and degree qualified naturopath and nutritionist. Cassie is passionate about co-creating achievable and sustainable solutions with her clients. Her approach involves combining the latest evidence based research with traditional herbal medicine methods and believes small changes can create a big impact.
The information shared in this episode is general in nature and is intended for educational and entertainment purposes only. It is not a substitute for personalised medical, nutritional or therapeutic advice. Cassie is not responsible for any actions taken based on the content of this episode. Always consult a qualified health professional before making changes to your health, diet or lifestyle.
If you loved this episode, follow Cassie on Instagram HERE for more, and HERE to learn more about working with Cassie one-to-one.
It's not about always staying in calm. Life cannot be level all the time, but it's knowing how do I return myself to that position in the stressful moment, in the overwhelming moment. It's the context which is the cause. They're restless and they've been told to sit still, but actually they've got all this energy that's building up that they just need to let loose.
SPEAKER_00If somebody is listening in thinking, I have absolutely no idea what my body is trying to tell me, where they start. Welcome back to In with Cassie. This season is the Evolution of You, and this conversation is part two of my conversation with Mel from The Body Intuition Collective. And if you haven't listened to part one, I really suggest you go back and listen to that one first because we've covered so much information. We are actually going to jump in and cover interoception around people with ADHD and autism. This part of the conversation also includes parenting, connecting the dots between our physical being and our emotional state, and it is filled with practical guidance that you can actually start using immediately. We also do a rapid fire at the end that you don't want to miss. So let's jump in. Mel, so my first question for you is we know that many neurodivergent people can experience the world differently. How can interception look different in someone with ADHD or autism? Or is it that their internal signalling is quieter, louder, delayed, or interpreted differently?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think it's interesting. It's, you know, I look at children and one thing that comes to mind is when I'm in the car and my kids were little and one of the kids would be like, Oh, can you hear that bird? Like, what bird? You know, we learn to tune out the world so well as an adult. Whereas I think children have a good ability to be in tune. And as I mentioned before, we override that in tuning with them. Like we tell them you must sit still in the classroom. And, you know, neurodivergent children sometimes can't sit still in the classroom and they need to fidget or they need that sensory um stimulation. But society is telling them, no, you cannot have that. And so it can be that they actually are very in tune with their body. Society is telling them not to be in tune, or again, it's assisting them in learning how to be in tune with their body. So, you know, if they put on the jumper first thing in the morning and insist on wearing it even as the day gets hotter, it's explaining to them, well, you know, the temperature was cold in the morning. But if you feel your face, you can feel that it's warmer. And it's giving them that sensory of this is what's happening in your body to help them learn better, but also support them with their environment, you know, the school life, um, the home life, so that they're not being overstimulated with a whole heap of loud noise or a lot of instructions. It's, you know, how do we work with each other to you be able to be calm, but also our household or our classroom be a calm environment as well.
SPEAKER_00And how do you think that might be different from your proprioception to the vestibular processing and how that shows up in everyday life?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, definitely. So I guess with the proprioception is knowing where your body is in space and your balance and um vestibular, sorry, is your balance. And so they all do work together. You know, we need to listen to all those systems because they are a part of our body. But when we might not have that proprioceptive ability, we don't trust where our body is in space. And so that will affect our interception. And so it can be by using tools like movement, teaching kids where their body is in space, you know, doing balance exercises with them to reconnect with this is what it feels like to be upright. And when I'm on the wobble board, I don't know where I am. But hang on, I can control that by engaging my core muscles, by using my breath work. And so it's um, I guess, tuning into all the different skill sets that we have as physios to make it all together. And that's what I say to my patients, you know, we're not just looking at you as you're a knee joint patient, we're looking at you holistically. You're a cyclist, you're a um a mother who's getting down on the floor with her kids, you're getting knee pain, but you've also got, you know, pelvic floor issues from when you're a mother and going through pregnancy. And so we never look at a patient just as their knee. We look at everything else their body's been through and the context of their life. And I think we need to do that with every person we see in the clinic and in life is how can we help them through all their skills and their systems, not just one individual area.
SPEAKER_00I guess the reminder that context really does matter in these situations. Like I know with naturopathy we're always taught that um the whole is more than the sum of parts. And so it's like, what happened in the history? What's going on with the other systems? How are they interacting? What's working really well compared to what's singing out for support? And how is that then interacting and showing up and integrating, I guess, to the rest of their body? But it's almost like from that physical perspective, you're integrating that as well, uh, from a physio perspective too, absolutely with everything. Do you think can somebody struggle to identify what they're feeling emotionally because they're actually struggling to interpret what's happening physically?
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. So I'm like, yes. So in my program, we've got four steps, and the first one is notice. So it's taking that breath in, what am I physically feeling physically? What's where am I feeling it? So, you know, is it in the jaw or in the shoulders? And what is my body telling me? So it's that notice. Then the next one is interpret. And as we said, context is everything. So we could interpret um the neck tension as being, oh, I'm just sitting at my desk for too many hours of the day. But no, actually, it's everything else, the mortgage that we're trying to apply for, and we know we're gonna have to move out of our rental place. And so, yes, the sitting at your desk is not helping, but that's not the cause, it's the context which is the cause. And then emotionally naming it, you know, I think we're good at happy, sad, and angry. But within that, you know, um, you know, are we actually feeling uh I guess anxious, not just sad, because we're trying to move house and you know, it's uncertain. And so it's having that emotional vocabulary, which I think we're still trying to learn, you know. I'm trying to, when my kids have an emotion, not just say, Oh, are you happy? You know, are you actually excited or you know, are you nervous? Like what's this sensation or what's this emotion? Um, and then linking it to where are you feeling it in the body? Is it in your stomach where you've got butterflies, or is it in your smile that you're so excited because something good's gonna happen at school today? And so it is trying to give them the physical presentations of emotions, but naming the specific emotions as well. And again, as adults, unfortunately, we weren't brought up with this, so it's us learning these skills as well. And then the third step is regulate. So you've got the notice, you've interpreted what it might mean, but how do we then bring ourselves back to calm? And I think, you know, it's not about always staying in calm. Life cannot be level all the time, but it's knowing how do I return myself to that position in the stressful moments, in the overwhelming moments. And then the final step is align in terms of what are my values and how do I stay connected to those values in life. That that really determines if I'm in a good place and I'm connected with myself and what's important to me, or is work and um outside external situations pulling me away from what's important, and therefore that's why I'm more snappy with my family, and you know, I'm not sleeping well because I really feel like my life is not where it should be, aligned to my values. So yeah, I think it's all important to look at the body holistically, the context, and then giving tools to how do we, you know, stay connected to ourselves.
SPEAKER_00This has been such a great conversation. I'm so glad I've got you here today. I've learned so much as well, just going through all of the different steps and how they interconnect. Because I I while I do think I have the emotional vocabulary in terms of like, are you sad or are you overwhelmed or are you feeling anxious or are you disappointed? I am not doing the second part of where are you feeling that in your body as well, and um processing that because do you know sometimes when you you are overwhelmed or you are in that survival mode, I definitely notice in myself I will notice a physical symptom before I actually clock the emotional symptom. Um, and so I guess uh connecting that from an early age would be so important. I can definitely see the value in that. What about when children are seeking like movement where they're crushing or spinning or trying to lift heavy things or covering themselves in a heavy blanket? Is that their nervous system asking for something specific, do you think?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it definitely is. And so it's trying to work out, you know, what is the emotion again that they're feeling? Where is it physically presenting? And does it need to be surrounded? Does it need to be held? And that might be where they hide under things or they want something heavy on them, or are they just sitting there tapping and they're restless and they've been told to sit still, but actually they've got all this energy that's building up that they just need to let loose. And so it again is teaching them what's the sensation that you're feeling first before it gets heightened and they become quite erratic, and what's the emotion that might be attached to it, to then how do we give you that safe space and tell you that everything's okay? And so, you know, I think as adults we probably need that too.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely, but I feel like you also just reinforced a parenting decision that I had the other day. My neighbours were laughing at me because they're like, What are you doing? My eldest son was running laps of the street before we got in the car because he was just like pushing on everyone, and like I was like, You've got energy, like just can you go do five laps and see if you can beat your time each time before we get in the car? Because I know it just would have turned into a full-blown argument had I just thrown him in the car.
SPEAKER_01But that's perfect parenting because you saw his needs, you helped him to be in tune with those needs versus quick, get in the car, we've got to get to grandma's or something. You're like, well no, this is gonna be a nightmare. Two minutes of you running laps is better than half an hour of an argument. They came out like, do you need help?
SPEAKER_00I was like, no, no, it's fine, good. Um, in terms of, I guess, um practical advice, if somebody is listening in thinking, I have absolutely no idea what my body is trying to tell me, where do they start?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, definitely. So just pause. Stop. Stop, give yourself. And I think we're not good at that. We're good at being productive and getting things done. So it is just take a breath in and out, a couple, and then ask yourself those three questions. What am I physically feeling right now? Where is it? And what does my body need? It's very simple. And again, you may not have the answer, and that's absolutely fine. But the more that you do it, the more you'll say, Okay, I don't know what I'm physically feeling, but I feel something in my neck, or I feel my legs are twitching. And so you can quite quickly find there is a physical sensation you're getting, and then going, okay, well, when I get that sensation, as you said, you're good at naming it emotionally, but physically, when I get that physical sensation, what is my body usually needing straight after that? And if I ignore it, what does it escalate to? And then I suddenly find myself, oh, I needed a some food, I was hungry. So it's listening to those sim systems quite early, and it's just giving yourself that two minutes of stopping, asking those three questions, probably daily, multiple times a day, because it's reinforcing to your brain it's okay to listen to your body. It's good to listen to your body, and your brain will start to settle and be much more in tune with it.
SPEAKER_00And are there any daily practices that genuinely help improve uh interoception?
SPEAKER_01Breath work has definitely been shown to be really helpful because it is again giving you that time to pause. Um, there's lots of different ways you can do it. So that paced breathing, telling your body it's safe, box breathing, the four seconds in, four hold, four seconds out, four hold can be good for boosting energy if you're feeling a bit flat. The physiological sigh where you breathe in, take another quick breath in, and then a slow breath out can really help to regulate your nervous system. And then, as I said, the humming, so taking a breath in and then humming, where you feel some vibrations against your vagus nerve again can help to reset the vagus tone and bring you back to calm. So breath work is exceptionally powerful. Uh movement. So again, if it's not much time and it's literally you're sitting at your desk between meetings, even just sometimes moving your shoulders, it's telling it's safe, it's okay, it's letting out any energy. You know that you're going to be sitting still for a little bit longer. It's releasing any shoulder tension that you might have. Then if you've got a bit more time walking, you know, five minutes out of the office, five minutes between dropping your kid off somewhere, racing to the next errand, it's just telling your body movement is healthy, movement is calming, it's reconnecting to where your body is in space. Again, that proprioception. Um, so they're probably my two tips breathe and move.
SPEAKER_00And then what's one misconception you think people have about interoception?
SPEAKER_01Probably that it's something that you can't train. That, you know, it's oh, like I just don't have that good awareness of my body. It's just how I was born. Um, or the decision of I don't want to learn about it. I'm just gonna keep pushing through. So they're probably the two issues I would see is, you know, people who just are in that override mentality of I don't have time for this, I just need to keep going, going, going. And that's when they eventually collapse and come into physio because their body has told them it's unsustainable. Um, and then that thing of, well, I'm just so I've got such bad body awareness, I don't know how to listen to my body. I can't do this, you can't train me. And it's it's it is trainable for everyone and any age, any situation. You know, we talked about leadership, we talked about hormonal transitions, children. You can really train it at any stage in life, which is very encouraging.
SPEAKER_00I love that, and you just reminded me of one of my favorite quotes that I used to say all of the time when I first went into clinical practice, and it was you can choose to tune in and listen to your body and take a day off and slow down, or your body will choose for you, and it's probably going to be at the most inconvenient time. And that's when you know you get sick right before the big presentation, or you fall in a heap, like right at the at the finish line, if you're an athlete training for something and you get that injury right before that big race, and it's just because there's been so many micro moments that lead up where you've not tuned in and you've not listened, where it said, Hey, I need to slow down, I need to change direction. Um, and ultimately we pay the cost of that, don't we?
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. And that's yeah, unfortunately, when you'll see them in the clinic is their body has told them this is not successful. So it's I guess it is actually better to learn it sooner because you'll become a better leader, you'll be a better athlete. So I look at it from performance and leadership and connection to self that the more you are in tune with your body, the better clarity and confidence you'll have each day.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's such an important message. I love it. I think we can all use a little bit more clarity and confidence in our day. Are you open to some rapid fire? Absolutely. Let's go. Okay, here we go. Tea or coffee. Coffee. Uh, one body cue people ignore the most. Tiredness, fatigue. Yeah, I would agree. Um, walk in nature or Pilates?
SPEAKER_01Oh, I'd have to go walk in nature.
SPEAKER_00The hard hitting question. If you want Pilates, though, that was a tough one. What's one thing you think every teenage girl should know? Oh, you are enough. Oh, I love that.
SPEAKER_01That's special. Um we definitely try and compare, we try and change who we are, but we are enough, and I think they they need to know that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and our teenage self needs to know that as well. We were enough. Um, the last book that you read and loved.
SPEAKER_01Oh. Oh, so many. Um I'm gonna go The Midnight Library. It's uh I've not read that. It's it's brilliant. So it's about uh this girl who gets to choose a book, and her book is basically her life story. And so it's that philosophical choice of if there was uh a different option, would you take it? And is life always gonna be better on the other side?
SPEAKER_00So I'm adding that to my list. I love it. Um, one thing every mum should know um listen to your body.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Um listen to your body and be kind to yourself, I think. I think we've got so many expectations and we're always pushing through, but yeah.
SPEAKER_00So many people telling us all of the things we should be doing. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So listen to yourself in terms of what your yourself is telling you you should do.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, absolutely. Um, sunrise or sunset? Sunrise. Uh what's one thing every woman in perimetopause should know?
SPEAKER_01Your body is communicating, it is not failing.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think that's so important in any hormonal transition. It's just messages, right? What's something your own body has taught you?
SPEAKER_01Um how powerful it can be, you know, to grow three babies, to um be strong. Like I think that's it's it's amazing how powerful the human body is, both for women and men. Like we we can achieve great things and to be grateful for it.
SPEAKER_00Be so grateful, yes. What's one word you hope every woman feels after listening to this episode? Peace. Peace. Yeah. You've got it. It's all inside you, right? We just have to tune in. Yeah. Um, how can we best support you? What are your offerings? Anyone listening who would like to get in contact with Melissa, what tell me what you've got going on? How can we better support you in your work? Perfect.
SPEAKER_01So you can find me on Instagram at Body Intuition Collective on my website, bodyintuitioncollective.com.au. I've got a foundation interoception program if this has really sparked some interest for you, and that goes through what interoception is, those steps we talked about, notice, interpret, regulate a line helps you to find some tools that might be useful for you. I run little mini retreats. Like I said, I had one on the weekend, which was absolutely beautiful space, teaching women about perimenopause and how to better connect with themselves. And I'm uh launching a 12-week online program which goes into further depth about interoception, teaching and tailoring the skills to you, uh, providing you with strength program, being a physio, um, restorative movement through Pilates, nourishing food, and uh yeah, just teaching those steps of interoception in a lot more depth to make it life-changing, habit-forming, transformative.
SPEAKER_00Incredible. What amazing and much needed work. So I will put all of this in the show notes if you would like to get in contact with Melissa. Um, all of those details will be there, but you can either reach out to either one of us on Instagram and I can put you in touch as well. Melissa, thank you so, so much for joining me today. I have absolutely loved this conversation. And thank you just for your time and sharing your knowledge and passion, and most importantly, for reminding us that our bodies are not something to battle with and that they're something to be curious about. I know so many women will walk away feeling more connected and empowered and with a whole new appreciation for the incredible wisdom our bodies hold. So I'm really grateful for you and your time and the work that you're doing, and I can't wait to see where the Body Intuition Collective goes next. Thank you so much for joining us for our conversation. If there is a friend or someone you know who you think would benefit from this conversation, please forward this episode. It helps us immensely get the message out. If you have a topic that you'd like to talk to me about, head over to my Instagram, slide into my DMs, it's Cassie Davenport underscore in I N. If this lands for you and you feel like you're in a tricky season and you would like some extra support, you don't have to figure this all out on your own. I offer one-on-one consult, mail me for a free discovery call to make sure that I'm the right fit for you. If you would like to get in touch with Mal, all of her details and information will be in the show notes. Her foundational interception and recalibration programs are built on simple but powerful beliefs that our bodies aren't working against us, they're constantly communicating with us. The more we learn to listen, the better equipped we are to navigate stress, hormonal changes, and life transitions with greater clarity, confidence, and self-compassion. In case nobody has told you today, the body tends to whisper before it screams. Listening in early is an act of self care. The more you tune in, the better you can respond to what you truly need.