All About Cortisol

Cortisol has become the internet's favorite villain — but ask most people what it actually does and the answer is a shrug. Rick and Greg spend this episode fixing that, starting with the uncomfortable truth that you'd be very, very sick without it.

The key insight is that cortisol works on a schedule, not a setting. It spikes sharply in the morning to pull you out of sleep, declines through the day, and bottoms out around midnight. Chronic stress and poor sleep don't make that curve taller or shorter — they flatten it. And a flat curve means no pep in the morning, too much alertness at bedtime, and a cycle that feeds itself until one rough week has quietly become six months. Along the way, cortisol drives belly fat storage (that midsection has extra cortisol receptors), pushes you toward cravings for fast sugar rather than actual hunger, and taps your muscle protein as backup fuel.

Then comes the myth-busting: "cortisol face" isn't a medical term, adrenal fatigue and adrenal burnout aren't recognized diagnoses, a cortisol lab test is clinically close to meaningless unless you're screening for a specific disease like Addison's, and "adaptogen" is a marketing word rather than a pharmacological one. Rick calls what's left the boring list, and he's not wrong — sleep seven to nine hours on a consistent schedule, exercise you can actually recover from, morning daylight and dim light at night, eat enough on a regular schedule, breathe, spend time with people you like, and cut caffeine off eight to ten hours before bed. Unglamorous, free, and more effective than anything on the supplement shelf.

Greg's closing line says it best: cortisol isn't the enemy. Dysregulation is.

Educational and informational only. Talk with your healthcare provider before starting any supplement, exercise regimen, or weight loss program — and especially if you're dealing with persistent insomnia.

Transcript

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SPEAKER_00 0:23

Hey, welcome back, everyone. Hey guys, this is Healthier Ever After. I'm Rick Sorensen, Greg Camp. We are here discussing healthy lifestyles and weight loss and all things physiology. Yeah. Kind of getting a little physiology kick lately.

SPEAKER_01 0:38

Yeah, yeah. We like to just talk about the kind of the processes in the body, as Rick had uh coined on uh the last episode is like everything your body does. Uh, we talk about it sometimes in the Mac.

SPEAKER_00 0:50

Like exercise is good for you. Yes. But why? Why? What what's happening? It's at the cellular level. Happens in the cells. Yeah. A lot of this happens in the cells. So we're going to talk about a little bit more about that. This is for educational and informational purposes only. Please talk to your medical provider before starting any supplement exercise regimen or weight loss program. Uh today we want to talk about, let's talk about cortisol. Yeah. Let's do it. So we've we I mean we again, I mentioned last time we want to maybe we need to reprise some of our things. This this might feel like a little bit of a reprise. We've talked about stress, we've talked about sleep, the importance of that. Um, we'll have to do a reprise on that specifically, but cortisol is kind of like the physiologic driver for some of these things. And and it is it is uh a key hormone in someone who is really trying to manage your weight, your blood sugar, uh, your energy. Absolutely. It's it's it's a key thing. So we want to talk about a little bit what it is, what it does, what you know, why cortisol? Why, you know, can't and can you not just like take a cortisol pill or yeah, you know, not just yeah, like if you need it, like so we're talking a little about what cortisol does and what it what it doesn't. It's it's it's all over the internet. You can search cortisol, people talking about it. And so we want to kind of maybe clarify a little bit about just what the simplicity of cortisol it might be.

SPEAKER_01 2:04

Yeah, and what we have written down here at the very top, uh, and just to preface this, is that cortisol is a very necessary hormone in the body. It's it's commonly referred to. If you went and asked nine out of ten people, if they said, hey, what what about uh cortisol levels? What do you know? Most people would answer, probably the average person would say, Oh, it's bad. I just I don't know what it is, but it's bad. Cortisol, we're gonna let you know what it actually does in the body, and that um cortisol is not all bad. No, it actually has a very, very specific physiologic function.

SPEAKER_00 2:37

Very helpful to talk to people who don't have yeah any Addison's disease.

SPEAKER_01 2:42

Um you get very sick with everything. So yeah, we need to talk about like cortisol is is not the enemy here. Too much cortisol, dysregulation of cortisol, all these things, and we'll talk about how that all happens. Um, short of any like um actual disease like Addison's disease.

SPEAKER_00 2:59

Yeah, um, we'll talk about things you can do to improve it. So so cortisol uh in a nutshell, cortisol is made in the adrenal glands. Your adrenal glands sit kind of on top of your kidneys. The actual it means ad renal is sort of Latin for on top of the kidney, right?

SPEAKER_01 3:15

I never actually thought I've heard that so many times and I've never actually thought ad renal.

SPEAKER_00 3:20

Yeah, I did Latin in college, I almost had enough credits in college to get a minor in Latin. Um I can remember, I can remember a summer term, it was just fun. We we read the first book of the Gaelic Wars by Julius Caesar, and in Latin, like we're reading this in Latin, and you know, and it was it was so fun. You get into Julius Caesar's mind, and I literally I was like, I was like, there is there is like I the only thing I can draw a similarity to is James Kirk of Star Trek because he just he like he said things uh that I Captain Kirk would have said, Yep. But anyway, so adrenal sits on top of your kidney. That's what the adrenal gland, and the adrenal gland is what makes cortisol. Cortisol is a hormone that your body makes, it releases every single day. And and it's not just about like having some, it's it's actually a schedule. It's you know, I would call it a cortisol is more like a scheduled thing. So so it has a a predictable and um and and when it's when it's doing its job correctly on this on this kind of daily schedule of a high and a low, um it's it's that's when it's most helpful. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:29

Follows this nice peak and and and really peaks pretty rapidly in the morning. You know, when I say rapidly over a 24-hour period, there's this, there's this uh you know steep incline where it peaks in the morning and then gradually goes down as there as the day goes on, with the expectation that of course you you're at your lowest point uh when you're going to like about midnight is when it that cycle hits the bottom, uh which is interesting because that's what sometimes when uh when it gets interrupted, your your cycle, we can talk about the shape, but so the shape of this curve helps.

SPEAKER_00 5:00

So so that spike in the morning gets you moving. It it pulls you out of sleep. Um and then through the day, it keeps your blood pressure from crashing between meals. Like we, you know, we don't eat constantly. Uh we we have intake and your body takes it and you your body handles that and doesn't have these big crashes in in in your blood sugar because cortisol kind of keeps that from happening, it keeps inflammation in check. Um and and if you don't have any, you you can get very sick. We talked about that a little bit. So so the problem isn't ever just cortisol, the problem is when the switch stays on, yep. And and it doesn't get to do its natural daily variation kind of cycle that it goes through. Uh so that shape matters when you have long-term stress, uh a lot of times involving sleep. Um, you know, I I mean I work in an ER, so so that's you know, modern life has some stressors that that really can affect this and and work doing shift work, working late at night, working night shifts. Um you your your cortisol, the normal shape of your cortisol curve is designed for a regular schedule. Yeah, waking well, waking up with the sun.

SPEAKER_01 6:11

Yeah, waking up with the sun and yeah, and going to bed in the evening. And um, you know, frankly, shift workers, ER people that work in the ER, a lot of times don't really have the luxury of following that traditional schedule.

SPEAKER_00 6:22

Right. So that so that normal curve, so you have this long-term stress then, and that affects your cortisol, but it doesn't just it doesn't just make like it taller or shorter. It it it really just flattens the curve. So it takes away that daily variation and that causes its own problems. Without that spike in the morning, it's harder to move when you feel drained already. Try early, sluggish, energy's low, like you know, they you don't have that pep in your step. And then and then as you get down towards bedtime, it's higher than it ought to be because it hasn't kind of gone through its regular little cycle, and you know, it's hard to go to sleep, and you're gonna have to, you know, and and then and then you don't sleep as well. And then you compound the problem, yeah. You know, and it just it's just this cycle that feeds itself. Um that so so it's not about not having cortisol, it's not about having too much cortisol, it's it's about really not having the normal daily variation of of that level.

SPEAKER_01 7:12

Yep. And it's and it happens in stressful jobs, which I mean a lot of jobs are stressful, ER for us being that you know more stressful job. You uh and then obviously you just when you're dealing with a stressful job, you're you're not only you know, if you're out of whack with just your sleep, that's one thing, but now we're talking about just stressors, life stressors, um, i.e. a stressful job. And so now instead of once again your cortisol level peaking and then gradually falling throughout the day, actually what ends up happening is we spike it again and then we spike it again and then we spike it again. And and as Rick had talked about, I mean, and then you're supposed to be able to just turn all that off, go home, and go to bed and do it all over again. And it's just your body does not do well with that, and it doesn't work, it doesn't work well like that.

SPEAKER_00 8:00

No, it kind of and so there's some other things that happen. So so as cortisol has effects on your body, having that lack of of normal variability um it leads to something. So so let's talk about what and this is not just a a hey, I didn't sleep well last night, tomorrow's gonna be bad. It's this is I I I have this constantly. This is a this is a long-term thing, usually. I mean, I've I've been not sleeping well for weeks, months. Um, and so so it's like not having an off switch for months at a time, yeah. Um, not having that nighttime kind of recharge sort of a thing. Um, and and that shows up in uh, you know, when somebody comes to the clinic and talk about weight loss, that's gonna show up in in a conversation uh a lot of the times because um, well, we can talk about the the specific weight loss issues, but there's some things that happen with cortisol. Um, you want to I mean maybe talk about like what that costs you.

SPEAKER_01 8:51

I mean, one one thing that happens is like if you think about your body uh having that spike in cortisol in the morning, that's a good thing. We want that. When you're having additional spikes, your body doesn't know what's going on, why you're stressed. It has no clue what's actually happening there. It just knows that you know, maybe your body thinks that you can't find food or that you know you're being chased or whatever it is. All your body does is it's trying to give you adequate resources to be able to deal with whatever the problem is. Your body doesn't hasn't been updated. We talk about this all the time. Your body doesn't know it's 2026 and that food or finding food is not most of our problem. And so what your body does in a lot of ways is it starts, it it's a really good storer. And so cortisol level spikes, and then what does it do? It stores belly fat. Your your your belly and specifically the midsection is great at storing when you have high stress, high cortisol levels.

SPEAKER_00 9:46

And and the the belly fat specifically tends to have uh like an extra helping of cortisol receptors.

SPEAKER_01 9:52

Yeah, so so it so it's affected more by this. And it's by design, right? Your body, your body is doing this out of a survival mechanism, right? So so it's not that your body's broken. Our body's doing what it's supposed to be doing. Um, it didn't know that you can uh be stressed over things other than survival, right? It doesn't know that you're stressed about that.

SPEAKER_00 10:13

There's a gorilla in the village.

SPEAKER_01 10:16

Or yeah, it doesn't know that like you're just stressed about like you know, having lunch with your mother-in-law. Um, it didn't your body doesn't know. And so what ends up happening is that your body goes into survival mode. And for what survival mode means is that you you slow, you know, grass uh, and this might sound like a good thing, but it's not over time. You actually can slow um your your gastric, like you till it like you actually slow digestion. Yeah, you kind of kill your diet, like your it actually short term actually sometimes will kill your appetite. Um, a lot of times you end up uh increasing cravings because you're just you you just have those once again, not hunger, but cravings.

SPEAKER_00 10:54

Like you crave the bad. Like it's interesting because the cortisol tends to uh like the hunger that you feel. Yeah, I think it's better to call it a craving because you tend to to not want just to eat, but you want to eat the fast sugar, yep, the the the food that calms the brain quickest. The the things exactly that we don't want you to be like like binging us.

SPEAKER_01 11:21

And so and so you're eating not even out of hunger now, and then so you're just doing it out of craving. So now you're not even listening to your body. Are you hungry? Have you actually already eaten something? Because the craving really is. I mean, why do people eat, right? There's either they're either hungry or they're craving, or maybe even out of habit, maybe they just like the taste. But in this case, when you have that craving driving you, right, what are you gonna go? If it's a craving and not hunger, you're always gonna go for the bad stuff. Yeah. And and of course, this is not stuff that we generally speaking want because like it's not gonna help with your overall wellness, which is what we're trying to promote. So um less muscle over time, but mostly out of that stress response, right? Your um higher blood sugar.

SPEAKER_00 12:01

Well, it does break down it. Cortisol tends to be uh one of the effects sometimes is it it it you know, your body has so so we've talked about you know different ways your body uses energy, and and there's there's multiple kind of chemical pathways that you can get body. So your body's it's like got backup systems, right? And one of the one of the I would call it the backup system for for using energy, it's not just the making glucose and turning into ATPs and you know, all that chemistry we've been talking about. But but one of the sort of backup energy systems is to break down protein, and and most of that is where you know we talk about protein, we're talking about muscle cells usually. And so cortisol actually stimulates the use of a backup system that breaks down protein, and so so it can you know, long term that you get less muscle because your body's like, hey, I need to use some of this muscle for fuel. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:50

Uh and that's that's well, and why you ask why would your body do that? Well, if your body thinks you're stressed because of the only reasons that your body ever thought you could be stressed, which is like food, shelter, water, well, it's it's it is a survival mechanism. So you're like, we can be frustrated all we want, but the reason why our species has gone from being cavemen to actually surviving through all of that is because we have these mechanisms in place. Our bodies just weren't uh newly designed in 2026. They still have all these processes that are supposed to keep us alive during times of of stress and famine and all the things. So what happens? Then you start releasing more glucagon from the pancreas, which then promotes the liver to pump out more sugar.

SPEAKER_00 13:31

And so it's this in and then your insulin, and then and then the pancreas like, wait, I gotta, I gotta keep up with this blood sugar, keep keep the spike, and we're gonna store that the fat. And it just this and over over a people a long period of time, weeks to months, then you then it's you're getting the exact opposite effect of what you're trying to accomplish. Truly.

SPEAKER_01 13:48

And so it's just, I mean, you see how this is just kind of a process that builds on itself. It's like we're supposed to have cortisol, but it's supposed to be this timely release thing. And when this gets out of whack for whatever reason, so we're gonna talk about some lifestyle and functional things that you can do today. You could start today um in doing and trying to get this under control. Um, but it's it's important to under kind of understand why. Why is it that when you're more stressed, or why is it when you're not sleeping well and things like that, of why how or at least what role, because it's not just one thing, what role cortisol plays in all this? Because cortisol commonly gets talked about as the bad guy, right? Cortisol is the good guy if you needed to survive.

SPEAKER_00 14:27

Well, I mean it's it's the good guy if it's if it's allowed to to um manage its functions as it's intended. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 14:38

Yeah, if it if it's working properly in the body and you have proper levels, that that nice peak with the nice drawdown over the day, um, absolutely it's it's a benefit to you. Yeah. Um, unfortunately, 2026, a lot of us are just kind of out of whack that way.

SPEAKER_00 14:51

Yeah. So if you're if you're eating well, you're moving, you're exercising, you're taking your medication, your supplements, whatever it is, uh um, and the scales don't move. Well and and this okay, just what I described. Have you ever had someone come to the clinic and say that exact thing? I think I'm doing this, I'm eating well, I'm moving, I'm taking my medications, and the scales staying the same. Yep, all the time. So many times. Right? And what and so, so one of the first things that we look at is okay, we're you know, yeah, let's check, we're doing those things, um, is sleep and stress. Absolutely. And and those are two variables that are often left out of the conversation. They uh and and they feed on each other. Um sleep and cortisol. Like if you if you sleep poorly, your cortisol is gonna be a little higher the next day, which makes it harder to go to sleep the next day, yeah, and easier to get up at 3 a.m. and not fall back asleep and sleep poorly. And and so that's how you turn a bad week of sleep into a bad six months.

SPEAKER_01 15:51

Absolutely. And it just does feed on itself, it's this vicious cycle, truly, that happens. And so typically a lot of times when people are like, look, I'm working out and I'm I'm I'm trying to eat good and all that stuff. Yeah, we can maybe make some improvements there, but a lot of times that we are starting to hit the things that don't go as noticed. Sleep is a big one. There's not, there's a million, and I mean a million. You can go do any Google search and find a million studies that talk about the correlation between not sleeping well and and uh and really weight gain. And a lot of that has to do with cortisol. I mean, there's other factors, but a lot of it really stems from cortisol. And so it seems counterintuitive, right? If I'm not sleeping as much, like you'd think I'd be skinnier, not fatter, because I mean I'm not sleeping as much. Like I'm awake and burning energy. It's just not the case. The way your body has all these little chemical processes that are taking place, cortisol being a big factor in that. And so when you're not sleeping, it's it's like it your body can't carry out all those other processes uh that are so important for functioning and actually for eventually, you know, yeah, using fat for energy if cortisol levels are flat, right? Not peaking and then dropping, and and or if they're being spiked multiple times a day be due to stress and poor sleep and all that. So sleep is definitely gonna be one of those big ones uh to start.

SPEAKER_00 17:08

Yeah, so we'll talk about let's talk about lifestyle, some of those lifestyle changes we can make. Uh, maybe first we want to debunk some myths. I like those myth busting episodes we did. Yeah, like like you're what are you gonna read on the internet about cortisol? Sure, let's talk about that and then we'll talk about some lifestyle things. Okay, so number one, our cortisol face. Yeah. Uh that's not a medical term. No. Uh and endocrinologists do not use that term. Um everyday, like puffiness in the face, you might notice, usually traces back to salt, alcohol, poor sleep, allergies, crying.

SPEAKER_01 17:42

Yeah, this is really not something that's been found.

SPEAKER_00 17:45

Yeah. There's the real cortisol-driven version, they call it moon faces. Yeah. Um, that comes with many other findings that are actual diseases that are diagnosed by a physician, not yeah, you'll find it on lab work.

SPEAKER_01 17:59

It's not gonna be something that yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:00

It's it's not common. These are rare and and uh actual medical conditions, but but uh just having cortisol isn't gonna make you face.

SPEAKER_01 18:12

No, it's not gonna do that. So um, yep, you can't actually look at someone and just tell what their cortisol level is.

SPEAKER_00 18:18

If you could, um, you should you may read about you may read about people who say they have uh adrenal fatigue. My adrenal glands have just they've just been working so hard and they get tired out by my stressful job.

SPEAKER_01 18:31

Or adrenal burnout is another one that they call that adrenal fatigue, adrenal burnout. And you know, this is one that's promoted by a lot of uh functional medicine offices, and and it's I think the I think it's well intentioned saying that look, you've just been stressed and you're just getting exhausted from this.

SPEAKER_00 18:51

But um, it's talked about like it's um like the cortisol levels are exactly designed to like where you're but when you say yeah, but when when you attribute that to your your your adrenal gland getting too tired and just stopping working, that's not a recognition. It's not a thing. It's not a thing. Like there are there there are real conditions, like what you mentioned, Addison's disease. That's a disease where you have real adrenal insecticity. It means your adrenal glands just don't work. Yep. And so you don't make cortisol. And and those people tend to get very, very sick very, very easily and and need you know some specific medications if they have certain conditions, certain illnesses, because their body just cannot mount a good response to to those things. But but that again, that's a rare thing, and it's not just I had a really stressful uh, you know, no, nobody, no, nobody in any endocrine society is gonna say, oh, you have a really stressful job for a long time. You probably have Addison's disease because your your adrenal gland is fatigue. It's that's a total except different thing.

SPEAKER_01 19:50

It's just not a thing. And and it's uh well, we can argue that long-term stress, not sleeping, all the things is not gonna be good for you long term. Um there's adrenal fatigue is still not recognized, adrenal burnout is not recognized as a medical condition. So if you know cautious with that one.

SPEAKER_00 20:08

So I took a at-home test, or I I want to get my cortisol level checked. Yeah. Um what how's that gonna help me? Yeah, right. You just had somebody you were talking to the other day.

SPEAKER_01 20:20

Yeah, and it's and it's like the thing is is that they they you can check cortisol levels. We have the ability to do a serum test of cortisol levels, but it would be more in trying to um more so understand if you have a disease a real disease that affects your adrenal glands.

SPEAKER_00 20:35

That's what we're looking for with those. This is not a thing that finding a level at any given time of the day, really, what are you gonna do with that information? That's not that's not gonna be helpful for any medical provider to come up with a plan to think about it.

SPEAKER_01 20:47

Clinically figured out clinically, it's close to meaningless. Yeah, it's it's as close to meaningless as you can without looking for a specific disease like Addison's disease. Right. The reason why, and I actually get tons of requests to have their cortisol levels checked, is because if I check your cortisol levels and they're low or they're elevated, or like anywhere in between, which 90, I'll let you know, 99.99999% of the patients I check are in the normal range. That's a lot of nines. I mean, really, it's just it's they're mostly in the normal range. And I so I'm not discounting that. If you know you're stressed and you know you're not sleeping, and you know you're not moving or working out, and you know you're not getting enough sun, and we'll talk about all this stuff, then I can almost assure you that you are not in a good pattern with your cortisol. So we need to start working on correcting some of those. And so, because the lab test is not like if let's say your cortisol is 50, uh it doesn't mean you know what I mean. Like it's I'm not gonna say do anything different than if your cortisol was lower than that or higher than that. The answer is the same, no matter what your level is. So, like I said, unless you were looking for a very specific disease. disease, which in most cases were not, you would have found that probably at there's others that yeah, you'd have you're gonna know that you're gonna know it earlier on.

SPEAKER_00 22:07

The fifth grade.

SPEAKER_01 22:08

Yeah. So you're the truth is is that there's there's I don't mind checking it if you want to check it, but it was it's it's come more of a um a more of like a populist thing, not actually driven by medicine. Not driven by and I yeah and when I say medicine I mean like by medical practice not by taking medicine.

SPEAKER_00 22:28

Okay here's the last one. Uh I read on the internet in on the internet in the internet that adaptogens reset my hormones including cortisol. Adaptogens that is a not a pharmacological term that is a marketing word correct?

SPEAKER_01 22:48

Yep and uh ashwagonda being the number one popular that is Ashwagon. Ashwagonda yeah now now there's some there's some trials that kind of can show some effects with ashwagonda and cortisol levels um but we're not there yet to proclaim that ashwagon small studies short studies sure some maybe encouraging results uh but as of what we know today yeah nothing you can buy off a shelf is better than a consistent bedtime I mean nothing you I mean if you if you could do one thing I mean because look I can't I can't stop you from stressing at work your your job's probably gonna be stressful no matter what we do right um your family in certain ways not even in bad ways but are going to be stressful you're gonna have life stressors I wish I could just tell everyone just stop stressing no you're gonna stress it's you don't have stress in your life yes yeah I know so it's I mean I you know that'd be fantastic right the the difference being is that we're going to give you kind of the same answers for how do we fix this now you're gonna go I don't care how many uh natural path functional medicine providers you go see and I'm not against these people I actually think that a lot of the stuff that they promote or really the stuff that we promote here we just aren't gonna try to tell you that we have some special thing that you can do that's beyond like the understanding of all these other medical professionals. So we're gonna give it to you here for free um because we just want people to feel good and and really the the evidence points towards the same things that we've really been talking about for a long time. You want to regulate your cortisol levels let's talk about a few things we can do to regulate cortisol levels in in a good way.

SPEAKER_00 24:23

So number one so let's talk about um I call this the boring list right because it's not the that it's not glamorous. This is this is really the things to do to help your cortisol are not like big glamorous things they're not like high uh high effort things big lifestyle changes you know it's it it's but but I the number one thing could be potentially one of it's probably for me one of the most difficult things to do.

SPEAKER_01 24:48

And that is that is sleep for seven to nine hours a day on a consistent schedule same wake time daily by far the most consistent thing to regulate your body to regulate your cortisol levels not using supplements not using anything out there like that um if you want to regulate your cortisol levels the number one thing that we can find to do is is just get sleep.

SPEAKER_00 25:14

A good consist on it's the same schedule a good consistent and and it's not and and really even just saying that helps regulate your cortisol levels it helps your body keep that curve with the spike and the decline that it's supposed to have throughout the day.

SPEAKER_01 25:26

Yeah and we get it there's people with insomnia there's people with sleeping issues but most people when I talk to them about you know insomnia or not being able to fall asleep or things like that. I mean typically if you don't have like a full blown true insomnia if it's just that you have a hard time to sleep then you have a hard time waking up things like that. Most of the time we can trace it back to lifestyle things, right? Yeah you're you're um you're on your phone too late, you're watching movies too late. I I know a couple people that are big readers that just honestly can't put down their dang I've done I know and it's just it I'm not hating on you. Look I love a good book as much as the next guy but if you're like hey I'm really adamant about getting this dialed in um you at some point have got to set an alarm do whatever and say no matter I'm where I'm at in this book, I need to come to a stopping point because if you're wanting to get these truly regulated you got you get you have to set some limitations. Yeah you got to be consistent. And so it really just comes down to a lot of the really like functional basic things. No sure there are people with true insomnia um sometimes situational insomnia they're going through a big life stressor can't sleep and or um truly like functional insomnia they just really cannot go to sleep. This is why you need to talk to your medical doctor like getting your sleep dialed in can regulate so many things. And so sometimes that's force you know like sometimes you need a pharmaceutical agent to be able to help you to do that.

SPEAKER_00 26:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:49

I would argue all day every day that getting on something like that to help you sleep would be better than just never sleeping.

SPEAKER_00 26:55

Yeah. You need to get sleep you got to get some sleep on a schedule. So then uh the next thing regular exercise that you recover from so the this is you know just having regular movement. And then and I'm gonna key that with the number three thing is uh getting some morning daylight. Yep. Dim light at night morning daylight. So so honestly those top three things if you can sleep at a you know go to bed at a consistent time wake up at a consistent time and then go for a walk outside in the sunshine yep those three things that's like that's like probably the by far more effective than anything you're gonna find on the internet you're gonna buy on a shelf you're gonna get in a health room store it it's just doing those three things like top three.

SPEAKER_01 27:33

You know I I um I didn't know how much this would affect me I knew I wanted windows in my office my medical office because we don't have we have we don't have windows in the ER.

SPEAKER_00 27:43

Right? Right and I I go home after an ER is if I'm there for like nine hours ten hours twelve hours and and I get home and my body's like oh my gosh the the the yard's a wreck because of the storm I'm like storm it rained what storm there what didn't even know it rained I know it's so wild and so working in the ER we just don't have windows and then I had an office forever that didn't have windows with an inside office.

SPEAKER_01 28:06

I finally really wanted an office with windows we eventually ended up getting one and I've had it for not even a year now. No can I just tell you that I I noticed such a huge difference now just going to the office in the morning and just having these windows and the sun's coming through my energy has been so much better. I can I can really feel I mean I can't whatever I think I'm feeling is like I really do feel that nice nice peeking out of my cortisol levels of like waking me up, getting me ready to go. It's it's fascinating.

SPEAKER_00 28:36

I mean just you know I'm just giving you obviously a personal experience but I am shocked at the amount of um energy the amount of mental clarity I have in the mornings when I go to the office versus when I used to go to the office and I would just dark yeah cave like you just I mean it's just hard your body's meant to have sun you're meant to have those those uh you you know blue lights and and UV rays and all these things like obviously within reason and uh just having those come through the windows and my now my office has a window in every room and yeah no it's great boy it's fantastic um so I've just noticed that personally so do whatever you've got to do everyone works in a different environment but take advantage of the sun I mean talk about that's why Rick said it's such a boring list because he's like sleep better get some sun I mean but you know you want to regulate this out does affect things yeah yeah all right so next uh number what are we at down number four yeah eat enough on a regular schedule you can't like people on a crash diet really mess up your cortisol totally um and and and even just any loss you know as you're trying to be in a calorie deficit and lose some weight um your your cortisol is going to fight you a little bit on that so so all these other things become even more important but but you can't starving yourself is is the stressor that you're talking about that our body was built for you know so a crash diet is much more like starving yourself in caveman times than than kind of eating a a little bit on a regular schedule you so eating enough on a regular schedule is is going to be helpful to to let that cortisol regulate itself rather than like starve yourself for a long period of time.

SPEAKER_01 30:14

Yeah and there's so many reasons for that I mean you know starving yourself is really it's gonna mess your cortisol uh rhythm up we've talked about obviously we're it's gonna be very hard to maintain nutrients including let's like we talked about last episode creatine and all that stuff if you're not supplementing it how can you imagine that you can keep good energy stores in your muscles in your brain in your heart um and even just have energy to do the the normal things every day if you are going through these long periods of of literally starving yourself.

SPEAKER_00 30:42

Yeah um and so you just really um cortisol is another reason why you need to really be able to um have a good consistent uh diet and and get good nutrients okay last few uh a little less effective than the top ones but um some slow breathing exercises five minutes uh of kind of some long exhales yes meditation type breathing so take a breath in and out we just need to record that record that no so so some breathing exercises just a few minutes a day is helpful helps the cortisol uh spending time with people you actually like yeah um it that's actually a measurable physiologic stressor is loneliness um so so you know take a take take time to be with someone that's the only reason me and Rick do this podcast right we are just trying to regulate regulating our cortisol right now sometimes this is dysregulated by showing up here with me but you know it it happens um and then uh a couple of other final little things caffeine yep uh you know the the I think the recommendation would be cut caffeine off about eight to ten hours before bare minimum six so that means like you're not having a big uh Dr.

SPEAKER_01 31:54

Pepper with dinner this is a lunchtime like at noon you're cutting your caffeine for the day this is a big one i i've actually uh had several patients when we were able to get this dialed in and we had at least six hours we always shoot for that eight to ten but at a bare minimum of six hours cutting off that caffeine I cannot tell you their sleep schedule gets so much better they're feeling so much better interestingly enough of course rather than having less energy eventually they actually end up with more energy because they just get regulated.

SPEAKER_00 32:23

Big one I think that's it I mean we could talk about the ashwagandha caffeine the supplements but I'm not gonna mention that one because really the data isn't there the evidence doesn't really support it. No I I mean supporting just a healthy lifestyle I don't know if there's harm in taking some ashwagandha but certainly it is it is nowhere near as effective as some of these things especially those top three so that's that's cortisol in a nutshell I don't know if we need to go more into that but no I don't think so um yeah it's that that's kind of one of the whys we do some of these things why we talk about sleep why we talk about exercise why we talk about movement why we talk about sunlight it's it's it is it's gonna be what can make you healthier ever after.

SPEAKER_01 33:00

And I think the biggest thing to remember and the biggest takeaway from this is cortisol is not the enemy dysregulation of cortisol is so so work on the lifestyle stuff and if you can get that kind of dialed in lifestyle wise then just basically doing the other things that we talk about on a regular basis.

SPEAKER_00 33:16

Let your body have its cortisol wave on a on its regular schedule don't don't mess up the wave.

SPEAKER_01 33:24

Yeah when when you can affect it when you can do those things prioritize those things and and work on that and uh yeah like uh we'll always cortisol will come up a million times yeah as we do this.

SPEAKER_00 33:36

Okay. Well stay healthy we will we'll be back after