The Real Reason Working Moms Carry So Much Guilt (And Why It's a Lie)

You've been told there's a right way to be a mom. Stay home, take care of the house, put everyone else first — and if you work, you're doing it wrong. But what if both sides of that argument are missing the point entirely?

In this episode, we break down the working mom vs. stay-at-home mom debate — not to pick a side, but to call out the guilt, the identity loss, and the cultural pressure that nobody wants to say out loud. This one hit close to home for both of us, and I think it'll hit close for you too.

In this episode, you'll learn:

• The hidden cost of making motherhood your only identity — and what starts to happen when your kids grow up and don't need you the same way
• Why the guilt you feel about working (or not working) might be coming from a belief that was never yours to carry in the first place
• The one conversation most couples avoid that could change the entire dynamic of your household — and your marriage

Chapters: 00:00 – Intro and Today's Topic 02:21 – Why This Question Hit So Hard 04:35 – The Identity Crisis Stay-At-Home Moms Face 06:58 – The Real Cons of Being a Working Mom 09:15 – The Moment That Changed Everything at Grandparents Day 11:38 – How Work Affects the Marriage Dynamic 14:00 – Gender Roles and Sharing Responsibilities at Home 18:30 – The Pros of Being a Working Mom 23:07 – Mom Guilt and Why It Needs to Stop 27:46 – How Confidence Gets Passed Down to Your Kids 30:46 – What to Say to the Mom Who Feels Like She's Not Enough 33:04 – Asking for Help Is Not a Weakness 37:50 – When Staying Home Isn't a Choice 40:14 – Your Kids Are Watching Either Way 42:30 – Finding the Silver Linings No Matter What

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hey guys, welcome back to In Session with Dad and Ange. On today's episode, um, we had a really interesting therapy Thursday question that we would love to talk about with you guys today. Um, it was really interesting because it's definitely, I think, a topic that's not talked about enough. That's true. Right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:21

Um we were both like a shocked that, like, oh, I I didn't think people would think about this. Or like, yeah, well, we found it interesting.

SPEAKER_00 0:29

It was very interesting. And so this episode's more like not if you agree, opinions-based. Like, we're not really using any clinical um findings or nothing clinical. So it's just opinions-based for us today. But yeah, I mean, maybe you can relate, maybe it's something you've been thinking about for a long time, you know. Um, so now do you want to introduce our topic?

SPEAKER_01 0:49

Yeah. So our topic today is um working, if working moms are bad for raising kids in our community. Um, again, this is all opinions-based, but I think what we're gonna do is try to like analyze both sides of the spectrum, like working moms and moms who are stay-at-home moms, and kind of just give the pros and cons of each. So, Ange, what would you say are, you know, like what would you say your first initial opinion of this topic is?

SPEAKER_00 1:21

So the first thing I thought about when I saw this question or this like suggested topic was um I felt really bad for um the mom that was talking, saying that, you know, she feels that she hears it all the time and that people, you know, will I dunno to what extent, you know, they they talk about it, but that there's typically a negative outlook on being a working mom. Um, and it made me feel really sad because, you know, I think there's so much to being a mom, just as is. A mom holds so much value, obviously. I think we can all agree that our households, you know, run on our mothers and without them, we'd be nothing. I don't know how to function without my mom. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:08

And I just got married and have to do my own household and like, mom, I need you to come, like, clean my room.

SPEAKER_00 2:13

Come help me. They're like, mom, come make me food. I'm hungry. Me and my husband are hungry. Mom, I need my shaling. I don't know what to do. I don't know how to feel. Poor George. George, if you're starving out there, let us know. Um, no, but seriously, we do depend on our mom so much. And so it's I can I can see where there's this idea that as a mother, you should stay at home, you should raise your children, you should focus on your husband, you should clean, you should cook, you should like that is your responsibility and that is your role. Then there's also this other layer of it that like we are we can be more if we want to be more. You know, we can work, we can have our own businesses, we can have our own things too, you know. Again, being a mom is amazing. And I don't want to minimize that by saying, like, oh, just being a mom. Like, I'm not minimizing that at all.

SPEAKER_01 3:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:08

At the same time, I think that, you know, you you there can be more.

SPEAKER_01 3:11

There can be more. Yeah, and I forgot to a lot of times, like moms who are stay-at-home moms kind of lose their identity a little bit. Like, I just know from like my own experience, like, you know, my mom is a stay-at-home mom. And she always tells me to say, like, Natalie, you can't go without a job. Like, no matter how badly I just want to quit. Why do you think she says that to you though? I think she says that to me because I don't think she wants, I think there is a level of losing your identity or losing some kind of like drive or purpose in your own life. Especially maybe now that like we're all raised, raised up, and like I'm married, my brothers are both working. Like the role of a mom kind of doesn't apply anymore. And I think maybe growing up, she just didn't have like what she needed to feel like fulfilled for her own self. Like I'm sure she felt fulfilled as a mom. Yeah. But like maybe there's just certain parts of you that don't feel full because you're just like, okay, well, who am I? What do I love to do? What are the things I like to do? Like it's like it's like the moment your child was born, it's like your whole life just becomes for them and it's no longer for you anymore.

SPEAKER_02 4:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:22

And that's that can be so hard. And I feel like a lot of like postpartum can happen from like that, where it just feels feels so heavy of like, who am I? Yeah, where am I? How am I gonna navigate this? And yeah, I just I feel like there's a lot of loss of identity in that.

SPEAKER_00 4:40

I can see that so much. I love that you brought that up because there is that loss of identity. There is that, like, well, whom am I outside of being a mom? Like, what do I like? What am I passionate about? And I think you said something really important too of like, there's it depends. It depends on the the age too that these moms are at and where they are in life right now. Like, for example, if like I'm raising younger children, maybe I feel like, you know, like it's a little bit easier for me to give up the things that I want because you know, these kids are really dependent on me right now in this time. But then when my kids get older, it's like I'm still a mom. Like, I'm still like, yeah, maybe they don't need me to like clean for them or cook for them, but like I'm there for them as a mom. And like, yeah, I can just do that too and still find my own thing. So it's just it's really interesting. But I think there is a huge emphasis on the identity part. I actually had a client once that I was working with that um, she got married at a young age, and um she is a young mother and she's been married for a while, but she got to the point where she started like just she was so tired of being a mother. And not that she didn't love her kids, not that she didn't like care for them in any way. Like, no, she loved them, but she was like, I'm like, who am I? Who am I? Like, I'm also a person. I forget that I'm Angie, not just mom. I'm Na, I'm not just mom. Like, I am, I have other things that I'm interested in and I want to do.

SPEAKER_01 6:12

I can get lost so easily. So easily.

SPEAKER_00 6:15

So easily. I mean, I think we can talk to both ends of the spectrum here, right? So, like, what would you say are some like cons about a working mother that some society might say, or all our culture might say, like, hey, you're a working mom, so you're risking this, this, this, that.

SPEAKER_01 6:33

Yeah. Well, I feel like the answer is kind of like it's very like basic and straight to the point. It's you lose time with your kids. And I think like I think a lot of people frown upon that because our culture is like they give you these rules and these expectations of like the mother is the caretaker, she takes care of the house, she's there for the children, she's there for their every need. And you know, like if she was to be working, that kind of takes that takes her time away from being able to fulfill that role. So I feel like there's so many things that can add to that. Like, for example, I I do think in some aspects, like, yes, you need time for your well, obviously, you need time for your children, you know, you need to give them that time. But I think it's about finding the balance of giving them that, where it's just like you can prioritize yourself too and prioritize someone else. Like, if you're not happy, your child's not happy. So take care of yourself. And with that, you are taking care of your kid. Oh, that's such a good point. It is like you we absorb all of our parents' energies. Like whenever my parents are going through stuff, I'm like, this is too stressful. And it's like not even my own problem. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:49

Like you take it on.

SPEAKER_01 7:50

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I do the same. Yeah. And I just like I remember like one time my cousin, he wanted me to be his grandmother for the day. Grandma not. Grandma not. I was like, grandma. Literally, I was there for grandparents' day. I was the grandma, and it was great. But, anyways, his he doesn't have his grandmother here, and my mom couldn't do it. So I was like, okay, I'll be the grandma. And so he knew that, and he was so excited. He was like, Oh my god, I can't believe she's gonna come to my grandmother's day. Like, I'm like his aunt, you know? And so, anyways, I go and I'm watching him, and he doesn't see me at that point. He's like looking into the crowd and he's probably looking for you. Yeah, he's like literally looking for me, and he had this frown on his face that was so devastating. Like, literally just did had no motivation, didn't want to do anything, just felt so sad. And then the moment he like laid eyes on me, when I tell you this kid's smile was from ear to ear, just like so happy, and he was just like ready to perform. My heart. I was like, it just like in that moment solidified for me how much kids just need their parents to show up for them. But with that said, like you can show up for them by also taking care of yourself too, and like having what you need for yourself. Like if you have a nine to five job, okay, like I don't know, maybe use some time off to go to that. Or if you can't do that, then like make sure you make it up for them or celebrate them afterwards, or I don't know, you find that time, make that effort to prioritize.

SPEAKER_00 9:25

Yeah, that's such a good point because it's like I think for working moms, you have to work extra hard at making that time for your kids. Cause I can't imagine how exhausted you must be coming home from a shift. And then, you know, you still have a job outside of your job, you know? So like you have to make that time, that extra time. And it's just like, again, it's just 10 times harder for a working mom. But I do agree with it is very important, of course, you know. Yeah. And I think your kids will see it, your kids will appreciate it so much. I love that you said it's like what we've kind of said before that you have to put your oxygen mask on first before you put it on your child. So true. For the next person, it's like you have to save yourself and take care of yourself for your kid to also be feel like, you know, they're being taken care of. Yeah. Um, so I love that you said that. What about like what other things come to mind when you think of like, okay, I could see how this might affect, you know, a family dynamic for like a mother to be working?

SPEAKER_01 10:21

Well, I definitely think it could affect the marriage for sure. First of all, again, like, yes, you're losing time with your children, but like that's also time with your husband as well, because now you're both maybe working. If you're not both working and he's at home, that could also cause a strain because now it's like, oh, you're the breadwinner. And I don't think a lot of men in our community are accepting of that. I think it's definitely that's where we get into cultural things of like maybe even like if you are working and he's working, and then you come to the house and you have all these dishes to do, but you're exhausted, you're drained at this point. And it's like, well, it's and then the man's like, well, it's your job to do it. Why are you not doing what you need to do as the mother of this house, as the caretaker of the household? So I definitely think some dynamics could play. I don't know what do you, what do you think?

SPEAKER_00 11:10

I agree. I definitely think some dynamics can can um be strained in that sense, you know, because there is some sort of expectation of, you know, the wife's role and the husband's role, and especially in our culture and what we know. I think that's where a conversation has to be had of like maybe we can like share like responsibilities, you know. Maybe you don't always have to, you know, cook and clean and dress the kids and this and that and that. Maybe like when I see that you've had a hard day, I can pick up that part, you know? Like going back to my client that I was just saying a little bit earlier, um, that was a big thing that actually she talked about. So it's so interesting that you say that. She kind of basically started like despising her husband, you know? She really was so angry towards him because she was like, Okay, well, I understand that my role has always been, it was like an unspoken thing, you know. My role, his role was going to work, making money, blah, blah, blah, coming home. And then my role was, you know, everything that has to do with the kids, which was pick up, drop off, um, feed, change, bathe, homework, all of that. And um, she was like, to the point where it's like, I leave the house for like, let's say a day. I just want to have a day for myself. And my husband acts like the world is falling apart. Like he doesn't know, like he'll call me being like, hey, the kids are hungry. She was like, okay, so feed them. Feed your children, you know? So I think it sometimes we take it to extremes too. I think maybe having a conversation of like, listen, like this is really important to me. I want to have that part of me where I'm doing something for myself. Um, maybe there's a way we can share these responsibilities, you know, a day where I'm feeling a little bit low, like you can pick up, like whatever. The 80 to the 20. Yes, exactly. Like meet me somewhere, you know? So um it's funny because I think that's so rare in our like culture. Like again, we're so like we stick to our own like gender roles. Oh, yeah. Um, and like I can speak to like my own experience with my parents. I mean, my mom was always the one, of course, like cook and clean and and and do all of that. Um, and my dad went to work. And so growing up, my mom like worked, but like it wasn't like nine to five job, like obviously, like she does hair. So it was like on, you know, the weekends, she would have clients at home, whatever. Um, but like, so she still had that time to still like, you know, take care of the house, take care of us, whatever. And then when she opened up her salon, she was at the salon like all the time. Not all the time, but like a lot of the Jays, you know, looked different. And then my dad was at a place in his life where he was retired pretty much. So he's just like kind of sitting at home all day now, and she's at work. And so my dad was sorry, dad's gonna expose you, but my dad was like to the point where it's like he'd call us to come pick, give him the remote. Like I think it's this is the remote. That water bottle is the remote, and I'm right here and I need you to come bring it to me. I know we see that stereotype all the time, but like genuinely that was my dad.

SPEAKER_01 14:16

Literally, that's a lot of Arab parents.

SPEAKER_00 14:17

Dude, do it. Or go get me water. Oh, go walk. No, but um yeah, so that was like just my dad because that's just how it was. You know, it wasn't wrong. It was just who he was and how he was and what he's known, you know. Like I have a long day at home. I mean, at work, so I come home, I don't want to do a thing. Yeah. But then when he saw my mom like working so much in the salon, he started by himself doing these things that he's never done before. Like he started doing the dishes sometimes. Like he does the dishes now and then. Like he'll like help her, like, Lufmel Fouv. Like he's probably gonna kill me for exposing it. Shout out to him for that. No, but genuinely, I think it's great. And like a lot of our friends will come over and like they've seen him loaf melfouf with my mom before. And they'll be like, my dad would never. And I'm just like, oh, don't get it twisted. He used to never, but like now it got to the point where it's like, I think he sees like, okay, like he stepped up when he needs to be able to do it. He stepped up. He stepped up. Like he's like, okay, like she's not here and the kitchen's a mess, and I'm gonna, I'm gonna clean it. There's nothing wrong with that just because I'm a man, you know? Um yes, it needs to be a thing. Yeah, no, I agree. So I think it's just like sharing that responsibility is really important for that sense of things.

SPEAKER_01 15:28

And I I think it's worth a conversation with every couple of like, hey, if this is the dynamic, like how are we gonna split the role? Because it's like it's no longer like the man is just the provider. I'm providing too, you know? So it's just like when I come home exhausted and you come home exhausted, how can we meet in the middle and split responsibility so that the house can function, but we can also function as individuals as well. Um, it's it's hard. And it's hard, it's especially hard for us as Arab Americans, where we're doing dealing with two cultures and two different ways of life. And like, I feel like we still have our roots and like our traditions. They still exist and they still persist in our lives. And so, like, for me, for example, like I can't wait to quit my job and be a stay-at-home. But it's just like I also recognize that like there is that loss of identity and there is that like strain of like kind of sitting at home sometimes and just having nothing to do when everyone else has something to do.

SPEAKER_00 16:31

Definitely, you know, especially when your kids get to that age, you know, like we said mentioned before, like, you know, like my parents are at an age now where like they don't have to drive us everywhere. They don't have to like feed us and bathe us and take care of us and tell us when to sleep. Like they don't have to do that. So it's like back then.

SPEAKER_01 16:48

It was back then, it was like, okay, well, I have rules, I have things to do. I I'm gonna go to the soccer games. Yeah. Oh, I can't wait to be the soccer mom. I cannot wait for that. But it was like I would my mom would go to the soccer games and she would get us like all of the snacks we needed and like prepare. I don't know, just be at everything. Like she was at everything. Yeah, we always thought I'm sure that meant so much to you guys. And of course, it meant so much. And like that was like, Yay, mom's here. Like, yay, she can see me succeed. Like, it's cute. And I I love those moments, and that's why like I I would want that for my kid too. But there's also so much benefits to having your kids see you as a working mom as well.

SPEAKER_00 17:29

Let's talk about the pros.

SPEAKER_01 17:30

Yeah, let's talk about the pros. Yeah, go ahead. No, let's continue. Well, no, I just feel like one of the pros is that your child will get to see that you are hardworking and like you can do anything you put your mind to. And I think that will like give them a little bit more confidence going into life of like my mom could do it and I can too. Like, whatever career, whatever passion it is, she succeeded at her passion, I can succeed at mine.

SPEAKER_02 17:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:56

And so I think that is a great thing to give to your child. I agree. Just as much as like, you know, the time and the showing up and all of this, like that example is a really good example too. I agree.

SPEAKER_00 18:08

Yeah, a huge example to set for your children, especially like when you have a daughter, you know, and it's like my mom can do anything she wants. And it really sets that idea of like you can put anything you set your mind to. Yeah. And it I think it teaches, like it teaches at a young age, like, look, like this is like mom like working really hard to get what she wants to get. Like, she's not just like she woke up one day and it's there. No, like you can see me going through it in that way. Like you could see me making these calls and and putting in this effort. And I think it teaches like we have to work hard to achieve what we want, which is a great lesson. I think another thing is that it teaches um young children that, you know, I can be multiple things at once. You know, I don't have to stick to one identity. I can be this and I can be this and I can be this, like I can be a mom, I can be a business owner, I can be a friend, I can be a wife, I can do it all, you know. And I think that's a beautiful like way to set a child up for success. Um standard. Set the standard, yeah. And again, it's just it's so inspirational to see like a mom doing her thing. Like I can speak from my own experience with my mom. Like again, when she opened up her salon, because I've known how bad she wanted to do this for so long and how it was like her lifelong dream, and she did it, it made me so happy and so proud. It's like wow, like you really like you did it. And that's another thing I want to say. It's not too late for those moms. Like for sure. Moms, like, if you feel like you're at a place where it's like, okay, like, you know, maybe I sacrificed so much when my children were younger and I felt like I didn't have the time or I didn't, you know, I didn't want to leave them, and now I'm just too old and like rahatalini, please no. Like I think it's never too late. It's never too late. And it doesn't have to be in in a business way. It can be in like, go find your interests, go take some classes, go, you know, find a new hobby, join a group, like find things for you that fill your cup.

SPEAKER_01 20:10

Seriously, I swear. Like that for like, for example, when I when I always say, like, oh, I just want to be a stay-at-home mom, I know in the back of my head what my interests are. And I know we can have that downfall or like lose our self-esteem and like feel like I'm not doing anything. I'm like literally just there's no purpose in my life. But like I I know what I have currently. Like, I love being a youth leader. Like that to me, I don't make money off that. Right. But it's something I enjoy and feel it feels like it gives me purpose to share the word and share the gospel and like and like come with a team and build something. Like that is so inspiring to me. I'm not benefiting. Nothing of me is benefiting, but it's it, I am benefiting in the sense of like I'm giving myself a purpose by doing something I love. You know? And that doesn't have to mean working a nine-to-five job. That means I go every other week. And then what the other week is just like us planning a lesson. And I I love this. Like, this is fun. Yeah, this is something I would love to do. We do this. You're passionate about it. I'm passionate about it. We don't make money off this. Sponsor us. God, if you're listening, please. Um, but like there's you don't have to be in a corporate job to feel fulfilled in life. You just have to find, like, if you love painting, go take painting classes, go paint, yeah, do something you love. If you just don't have that many interests, take care of yourself. Eat, like, make sure, find the new recipes, get creative with your cooking, like go to the gym, join a join a Pilates class. Like, there's so many things you can do with your time that give you purpose and hope and like fulfillment. And like, I just think that's that's very beneficial for the mom who does want to stay at home because I agree. There's nothing wrong with that. And I'm tired of people thinking. Thinking that's wrong.

SPEAKER_00 22:01

I agree. I'm tired of people thinking that's wrong. And then because of that, it's like I think a lot of mom guilt happens. Oh, yeah. Like moms feel so guilty when they're doing something for themselves, you know? And I think it goes back to that idea of like, you know, I know my kids are home right now, but I really want to schedule this like yoga class or I want to do this thing, but like I feel really guilty about it. Maybe my kids need me to like go over their homework or go your kids need you to take care of yourself. They do. For sure. And as long as like we like we talked about, there is some sort of balance of like support with the husband. Support with the husband, people around you, maybe people you can lean on. It's okay to utilize those people. It doesn't have to be all you, you know?

SPEAKER_01 22:44

For sure. Yeah. Yeah. Um, a lot of other stuff we kind of didn't mention yet is kind of um being financially independent. When you're a working mom. When you're a working mom, I feel like that is definitely a pro because I like we've talked about it in our marriage video. Toxic relationships. Sometimes I feel like a lot of women can feel financially dependent on their partners. And that's the reason why they stay in such toxic and emotionally abusive relationships. Because it's like, well, what am I supposed to do with myself if I I don't have anything to support me, if I don't have, you know, family to help me out through this, if I'm just here by myself and I'm stuck and the only thing getting me through life is the financial dependency of a man. Right. So it's like you get to have that for yourself so that you don't, if you need to leave, you can leave.

SPEAKER_00 23:37

I love that you said that. That's really important. Especially like the older generation that like, you know, came here with like no education. They had to raise families right away. And so that was the idea of like my husband works and I stay at home. And so they never got to explore their own, you know, interests and finding a job in that way. So it's like that's all they've ever known is, you know, the income comes from my husband. So even if I wanted to leave, I could, I couldn't. So it does, I think, create this financial independence that you don't really, you don't, I don't think you realize you need it until you do, you know. Um I don't know. I think it in that way too also builds like confidence and self-esteem. Oh and like, oh, I can do that. You know, I don't have to depend on anyone. I was able to do this. I was able to like, you know, start up my business or I was able to, I don't know, take these classes. I was able to learn this new thing. Like it teaches a lot of self like confidence.

SPEAKER_01 24:39

And kind of like back to what you were saying about like, you know, you're the children looking up to you and stuff. Um, also, and this is just a theory that I have come up with right now. Okay. I feel like you finding that purpose within like a hobby or a job or something like that, or you know, working to gain that self-esteem and that confidence. I do think like in the womb that can be passed on to your kid, to building self-esteeming kids with self-esteem. I don't know how to explain it properly, but it's more so like I think the more you have a positive outlook and a very firm and confident outlook on life, the more your children are going to come out that way too. Because the way we talked about it before, you're modeling for your kids what it's like to be a functioning human in society. So if you're functioning at a capacity where you are able to lead with confidence, then your child is going to reflect that. Your child is going to be walking in that. So it's kind of like, I don't know, working does give you a sense of esteem. And if I'm uh confident I can do it and I'm confident I can do the dishes, but also you know, have a nine to five and and get the bills paid and and do all this, like and I'm confident in that, then my child is going to be confident as well in like doing their chores or going to the soccer practice after school and like juggling a million things that children do juggle then on their day-to-day. Yeah, it's just pass down confidence.

SPEAKER_00 26:16

Like I love that because modeling.

SPEAKER_01 26:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:19

It's it's it really is like you're modeling like what a put together like self-confident, self-established person can look like. And for sure. I love that you said that because I don't I think we see it for sure, but not in that way often. Like, you know, like we see it in certain areas, but we I don't know, we just we don't see it that often. So then what would you say to the moms that maybe feel like guilty or maybe feel like um a lack of confidence because they're like just stay-at-home moms? Cause I think there's also that like idea of like, oh, you're you don't work, like you're yeah, you just stay at home, you know? Like what would you say to and but those moms are like, no, but like this is what I want to do. Like this is truly like no one's making me stay home. I want to just stay home and like be with my children.

SPEAKER_01 27:07

Um I would say, like, first of all, being a stay-at-home mom is a really hard job. And not a lot of people are cut out to be that. And you are willingly choosing to put your kids first and have them be the priority and for in your life, and like that that's a great thing. And I don't want people to think that's not, you know. I think you need to recognize that like you are doing everything you can for another person, and that is such a selfless quality. And that's that is a beautiful thing about a person. So find your confidence in your your ability to care for other people because that is that is a beautiful thing, and not a lot of people do have that, you know.

SPEAKER_00 27:52

I agree, and it's a whole job on its own. Like you're doing so much. People don't recognize they don't. It's like, you know, like I don't when my mom went to Surya for like a couple months, my mom and dad, but like I felt it so heavily with my mom because I then I was responsible for the things in the house. And I didn't realize how much she did. I genuinely did not realize until she, and I'm talking about like we're full-grown adults now. So I can't imagine when we were children, it must have been 10 times even worse. But like, oh my gosh, like you have to remember to like take out the trash and you have to remember to do this and that and that and that laundry. Like there's so much that goes into it. And like, yeah, we help our moms here and there, but it never feels like it's like, oh, if I don't do it, it's not gonna get done. And that's what they feel all the time, I think. With like stay-at-home moms, it's like and it's not even just chores, too.

SPEAKER_01 28:41

I feel like the mom is like the the key to every household. The mom is the glue, she's the glue. She's everything. If you need anything, who am I gonna go to? I'm gonna go to my mom. Yeah, you know, if I need something to like, if I want to vent about something, I go to my mom because my mom wants the best for me out of everyone in this world, you know, more than anybody. The mom is a glue of every house. She puts the house together. Such a valuable thing to be. There's such a valuable position. So there is purpose in that. And I think like also, like, if you do feel like a lack of confidence because all the things we're saying isn't really clicking because you're in a dark place in your life right now, start being proactive in doing kind of like what we said of like finding little interests that give you your sense of identity back. Just anything.

SPEAKER_00 29:31

Yeah, find yourself again. Find yourself again. Like, who am I? Explore you, you know, like find like you take those classes, you know, read those books, like find those people, join those groups. Like there are things out there to like really, really help you find these parts of you that maybe got lost along the way, or maybe you never got a chance to discover. Um, but it's never too late. Like it's never too late to like be passionate about something and like sure, and that's okay. Like, I think there's also a sense of like like embarrassment, I think, when it comes to like, oh, but like Sarah Ambre, like Sitteen Sini or whatever, like who do I look like going to take some like art classes or like you know, starting a business or whatever? And I think there's that sense of that too, a little bit like what will people say? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:19

But I think we had that with this podcast. Yeah, you know, when we're young, we're still like at the start of our lives, and like we're still we still have fears, but like we didn't let it stop us. And you shouldn't either, just because you're a certain age, like who cares?

SPEAKER_00 30:33

It doesn't mean anything, it really doesn't. So many people are human, you're still living your life and this one life that you get, you know?

SPEAKER_01 30:41

So make the best out of it. Yeah, yeah. And there's there's just so much like and I feel bad because sometimes it's like with the moms with the little kids, yes, yeah, that's mentally draining. Yeah. Because it just feels like, well, I just want to sleep. Yeah. I just want some time to myself to sleep. And like if your husband's working all like all day to support, which is like, you know, props to him because he's doing his role too. Right. But it does feel like, well, I'm doing this all on my own and I need help. And I would say to that person, like, hey, maybe you don't have time for all this, but like, look to the people in your life and ask for help. Lean on them. Yeah, lean on them. Don't be afraid to ask for help. That's something I think all adobs, we all struggle with. We can't ask for help. Like, it's gonna feel like I'm I'm underperforming.

SPEAKER_00 31:31

Right. But you're not. But you're not. Which is crazy because that's the one thing that I really value so much about our community is that we are a community. Like when they say, like, oh, it takes a village, well, we have a village, you know, like lean on each other. Like, I don't know. Like, that's the beautiful part about being from this like little town in Surya. It's that like we all know each other and we do all love each other and like we are there for each other when we need to be. We do show up for each other. So it's like you have like a million, I'm sure, like cousins and friends and aunts and uncles, and not any of them. And I'm sure they would they wouldn't mind, you know. Obviously. But there is that like hesitation because we do feel like not just as a-ups, but I think just especially as a parent, I'm sure it's very difficult to accept that you can't do it all. Oh my God. You know, it's like it's like, no, but I'm the mom.

SPEAKER_01 32:28

I should be able to should is a bad word.

SPEAKER_00 32:33

No, no, no. It is a bad word. I should be able to handle all of it. But like, no, like you, you, you don't have to. Like, and there's you're human at the end of the day, you know. Again, I think it's just for a lot of parents, it's hard to get over that that fact of like, yeah, I'm the one that birthed you. How do I like not know how to help you? Or how do I like I shouldn't need for help? Like, I should be able to handle all of it. And it's like, you're not perfect, nobody is, like, no one can.

SPEAKER_01 33:02

And I I'm probably I'm saying all this and stuff like that, but like I know the moment I become a mom, I'm gonna be like, what the heck do I do with you? Yeah. Like I know I'm gonna go through that. Oh yeah. But it's like, I need to also be remind myself going into that phase as well of like, hey, like you, your mom did this before you. You can ask your mom. Like, you're not all knowing. Yeah. And you're doing this for the first time, and so is every other person who just had a kid and is trying to raise a family. Like totally, even if you had your second kid, like totally you still don't know everything.

SPEAKER_00 33:35

And I accept humility. Totally accept that humility. And like, no matter how many books you read to prepare, or how many videos you watch, or how many doctors you ask, it's different when your child actually comes and like you're experiencing it for the first time. Like, yeah, it's good to be prepared, but nothing's gonna prepare you and humili humiliate, humiliate humiliate you as having a child for the first time and really not knowing what to do. Humble.

SPEAKER_01 34:01

Humiliate. Like, I get it. Humility is a very like complex word. Like you using the wrong terms, I don't know, using the wrong terms, it sounds like you're humiliating yourself. Right. But realistically, like what we mean is like humbling.

SPEAKER_00 34:16

Right. Thank you, Nat. You worded that very beautifully. Humiliate. Um, yeah, so I I do think they should give themselves some grace and patience. Um, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:28

And and and uh support groups, like I I know you guys are gonna be like support groups, isha like what the fuck? What kind of support group are you wanting to join? Like, not just that, like go talk to other moms, you know, in the community, your friends.

SPEAKER_00 34:44

It doesn't even have to be in the community. If you don't want to talk to the community ones, there are so many, um, a lot of first-time moms that I see. I recommend them to go find groups. Like a lot of them find like Facebook groups of like first-time moms. Um, and they like meet up for coffee or meet up for whatever, like mommy and me play date or whatever. And they, it's so healing to see other first-time moms relate to so much. And like it normalizes a lot of like the things that you think, um, you think like, oh, like uh is this normal? Like, should I be doing this? Should I be doing that? It normalizes and it validates a lot of the things that maybe you thought like you were doing wrong or something, you know? Yeah. Um, so it is very healing. I do agree with the finding a group.

SPEAKER_01 35:29

Group therapy is honestly so healing. Like, like you said, I feel like it's because having a shared experience in itself is just a healing thing because it feels like I'm not alone. And I think my whole like point of like saying like find a group is so you don't feel alone in this journey because that's that's a heavy cross to carry. And you shouldn't feel like that. And like, yes, you have your husband, you have that, and like he's gonna do his part when he comes. I hope. I hope so too. But it's also like in the times where you do feel like there's no one there, you are going through it alone. Like, just know there's outlets.

SPEAKER_00 36:04

There's outlets and there's help out there, and people will support you. You just have to like reach out to them, you know. For sure. Um, yeah, but then I also kind of want to get into a little bit of, you know, maybe the moms that don't have the like luxury to be able to be stay-at-home moms, and it's like their household really does depend on two incomes. It's like, oh, well, I do feel guilty and I would love to be a stay-at-home mom, and but I can't. And like that's really hard too, you know, for a lot of people that crave that, but it's like, you know, our finances won't allow it.

SPEAKER_01 36:39

That's that's a really hard one. Yeah. I feel like out of everyone, because it's like, I don't know, you want to do one thing, but you're forced into another thing, and it feels like things are out of your control.

SPEAKER_00 36:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:51

But honestly, like what I say to even like my kid clients, like, if you've if the world is not in your control, find what is. I like go with that. Yeah. What would you say?

SPEAKER_00 37:02

That's a really, really good. Because it's it is outside of your control. I think I would say kind of similarly what we said to um in in different scenarios, what we said to like the working mom, uh the stay-at-home moms is also like, don't like basically don't let that guilt eat you alive, you know, like f find that time to balance it all, you know. I know it's hard, but you and you might have to work extra hard at it. But like, you know, like find that, find that thing for you. Find that, like, you know, I feel guilty because I really do want to stay at home home with my kids, but I can't. So maybe on the days that, you know, you're very tired after work, I know nothing in you is gonna want to spend those 20 minutes building blocks with your child, but like do it, you know, like for your sake and for their sake, you know, like make yourself kind of do it. Um, but you guys are very appreciated, you guys are very valued, like, and I'm sure like your kids, I think will understand that one day too. It's like, you know, like I know my mom would have loved to be more with me, but you know, I know the situation. And it's again, they know you love them, they know you care for them, you know, that they know you would do anything for them. Um, and I think one day they'll get to a point where they they truly understand like this is just what the situation was, and we don't have another choice.

SPEAKER_01 38:19

And it shows that like your child's gonna appreciate you whether you are a working mom and if you are a stay-at-home mom, like your child will have that love for you if you have your love, that love for your child. Definitely. Whether it be building that example for them and like providing for your household, yeah, or it be like you, you know, showing up for them in those moments and being that stay-at-home mom and taking care of the household. Like they're both such valued things, and like no one is wrong and no one is right. No, everyone is just do what makes you happy and do what floats your boat because I agree.

SPEAKER_00 38:51

Your kid is watching. I agree, you know, in in whatever regard your kid is watching. Yeah. And I think it's really important to emphasize that times have changed, you know, and so like we're changing with that. You know, and so to those moms out there that if you're hearing, like, let's say you are a working mom and you're hearing you're being judged for it or criticized for it. Um, I know it's hard, but let it go in through one ear and out the other. Um, you remind yourself you are doing something beautiful and remind yourself the reason that you're doing it, and then the rest of it goes away. You know, what was the purpose of it? You know, why are you doing this? And then it really does cancel out that the negative and the bad. At the end of the day, love our people to death. But there's always gonna be judgment, there's always gonna be criticism, no matter what you do, whether you, you know, were stay-at-home mom or I don't know, or working 24-7, like they will criticize, they will judge to some extent, but you are building your life for you and your children and your family, and and that's all that matters.

SPEAKER_01 39:54

Beautiful. Yeah. Have you ever watched that movie, Pursuit of Happiness? Yes. Okay, I honestly I forgot what the movie was about, but I just understand the message. What was the message? I hope I understand the message. Maybe I just made it up in my head. I don't know. Like, do I understand the message? Well, I I think I understood the message as like find the silver linings of life. Like the journey is the destination, not the destination itself. It's just like finding the the silver linings of each moment with whatever you are in, whatever phase you are in. Maybe that's not the message of the movie at all, because I don't remember the movie, but I remember loving it. I remember loving it too. I don't remember much of it. Yeah. I made that up. I just wanted to say the pursuit of happiness.

SPEAKER_00 40:33

I remember it was very like obviously it was Will and Jaden Smith. Okay. And I remember that like Will Smith, the dad in the movie was struggling like financially or something, and um like trying to like balance like finding a job and then not and I didn't know if I'm remembering the movie at all, but I remember feeling very emotional about it. I yeah, but like he was struggling financially, I think. But he and he was a single parent and he didn't have anywhere to go with his kid. Right.

SPEAKER_01 41:01

Okay, it does kind of like it.

SPEAKER_00 41:02

But then what do we take him to work sometimes?

SPEAKER_01 41:04

Yeah, take him to work. Yeah, but I I feel like the ending of the movie, I remember that. Very much so, like kind of trying to say of like, you just have to find the silver linings in anything you do because those are gonna be moments wasted in the future. Like you can get to where you want to be, but if you're wasting all the precious time that you had growing with your kid and with that, then like you know, you're you're wasting time. It was for nothing, basically. Like it I'm gonna search it up.

SPEAKER_00 41:33

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 41:34

Of course you are. Sorry, guys, this has literally was a very intrusive thought. Yeah, I know. I just felt like maybe it adds to this. I'm just wondering what you're gonna search up. Like, what is the meaning behind the movie? What is the meaning behind the pursuit of happiness? So funny. I wish my voice can stay like this forever. Okay. Gone forever. It just feels nice to talk. The underlying motivation, purpose, and goal driving someone's actions or long-term quest often involve involving determination, effort, and sacrifice. Never mind. It signifies the why behind the effort, whether it is a career goal, personal ambition, or a search for happiness or knowledge. Never mind. Just cut that apart off. Anyway, anyway, no, but I you kind of similar. Do you get my message? I do get your message. And I think find the good in each thing.

SPEAKER_00 42:31

Yes. Basically. Yeah. And no matter what life has thrown at you, right? Yeah. Because we we everyone has a different story and a different journey. Find the silver linings, find the beauty of it, focus on the positive rather than the negative. Yeah. And take it in.

SPEAKER_01 42:46

Yeah. Kind of like you said, if the working mom, like you feel like you're not having, you're suffering from your own guilt of like not being there enough for your child. Find the silver line of like, well, I do have this time right him right now with him. I'm gonna, I'm gonna take advantage of it. Yes. I'm going to be there for you in this moment. If I couldn't be there back then, I I'm gonna make this moment count. Yeah. Make each day count, as Jack would say. Sorry, this is the point of the episode where we need to cut it.

SPEAKER_00 43:14

This is where they're already logged off. They're all the reasons they stop tuning in. Well, um, yeah. Yeah, no, I agree. I totally agree. I think um you really do have to work a little extra hard at doing that when you are a working mom. For sure. Um, and balancing it all and um making sure your kids are being taken care of in that you they still have that moment, those moments with their mother. Control what you can control. Control what you can control. 100%. Um, have conversations with your partner, figure out a plan, you know, what might help both of you guys a little bit more, you know, for the benefit of your children, you know, who can take on what roles? Like what what's the what's the dynamic that works for you guys? Um and moms, you have nothing to fear. Guilty about you guys are amazing, and this world revolves around our mothers. Without mothers, we are nothing, obviously. We can't exist without we really can't exist without you guys. You guys are the thing that holds the world. You really are. Whether you're um working, whether you're staying at home, whether you're like you are everything. Yeah, we love you guys. We love you guys. We love you, our moms. Happy past Mother's Day. Happy Mother's Day. Oh my god, Mother's Day. Oh, okay. Well, thank you guys for tuning in um to In Session with Nat and Ange. We'll see you guys next time. Bye.