Your Brain Is Lying to You. Here's What Depression Actually Looks Like

You've probably said it before. "I'm so depressed." But do you actually know what depression looks like when it's real... when it's clinical... when it's the kind that convinces you there's no point in getting out of bed, seeing your friends, or even looking forward to tomorrow?

In this episode, we're getting honest about depression — the difference between feeling sad and actually being diagnosed, why the happiest person you know might be the one suffering the most, and a brain surgery story that completely changed the way we understand what's happening inside someone's mind when they can't feel joy. We also share what's helped us personally and what to do if someone you love is going through it right now.

In this episode, you'll learn:

• The clinical difference between sadness and depression — and why throwing the word around can be more harmful than you think
• A brain surgery story that reveals what depression actually does to the way you see the world — down to the colors around you
• Simple tools that don't require a complete life overhaul — just one thing today that can start to bring the light back in

Chapters:

00:00 – Crisis Resources and Outro Message

00:32 – Welcome and Why We're Talking About Depression

02:46 – Stop Throwing Around Words Like "Depressed" and "Bipolar"

05:01 – When Sadness Starts Getting in the Way of Your Life

07:20 – The Person Smiling the Most Might Be Suffering the Most

09:42 – The Brain Surgery That Changed Everything

12:06 – A Simple Mental Health Check You Can Do on Any Walk

14:32 – Your Brain Can Change How You Experience the World

16:34 – What We'd Say to Someone Who Feels Hopeless Right Now

20:48 – What Actually Helped During Our Hardest Seasons

25:16 – Therapy, Medication, Sleep, and What You Put in Your Body

29:55 – Why You Isolate and What to Do Instead

34:46 – Mood Monitoring and Building a New Routine

39:31 – How to Show Up for a Friend Who's Struggling

43:31 – Find One Thing Today

45:26 – This Is Not a Substitute for Professional Help

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hi guys, welcome back to In Session Map and End. On today's episode, we're gonna be talking about depression. A lot of people, you know, they throw around the word depression. They say stuff like, oh, um, I feel depressed today, or I think I'm depressed. And we're here to kind of, you know, tell the truth about what depression actually looks like from a clinical perspective and, you know, what it can look like all around, because depression can look like a range of things. It's it's kind of like a spectrum where sometimes we might feel it on a very, very heavy level where something is actually like wrong with the brain and and it needs help and like reprogramming. What and then it could also look like seasonal depression, which is something everyone gets every now and then. Yeah. So I kind of wanted to start off today kind of talking about the differences between what depression can look like and the difference between sadness and clinical depression.

SPEAKER_01 1:06

That's such a good way to put it because I think that is the main like thing that I hear all the time where people are just like, if they're feeling like a bit extra sad, they're saying that they are depressed and they have depression. Um and there is a there is a very big difference. Um, I think for one, I want to start with saying like feeling depressed is a feeling, you know, and that is okay, you know, to say that, you know, you are feeling depressed. Um, but when it's kind of like what you said when people throw around that like term so easily when that's not the case that's happening, then um kind of feels frustrating to like hear that, especially for I'm sure for people who, you know, have been diagnosed with depression and they struggle with it every single day. So it's hard because I feel like we make light of like certain diagnoses and kind of it's like OCD, like, oh, if I clean too much, I'm I'm a clean freak, I have OCD. Or if I like things routined, I have OCD. And it's like that's not how it works. Or like if someone gets angry really quickly, all of a sudden they're bipolar, and it's just like that's not the case. So I feel like the same thing kind of goes with depression. It's like when people come into these states of like, you know, extreme, I don't want to say extreme, but like very, very sad, they'll say, like, I'm depressed or haven't been, I've been sad for a couple days, so automatically I have depression. And that's really not how it works. Um, I kind of wanted us to also get into like the clinical like side of like what depression can look like, um, what the DSM um diagno like diagnosis diagnose DSM what the DSM criteria is for um for depression. Uh there are different kinds of depression, you know. We'll get into all the different kinds later down the down the line. Oh my god, what is wrong with me? Down the line later in the episode. Um, but so depression um it's a state of extreme sadness, feeling hopeless, feeling numb, um, losing pleasure or interest of things, um, feeling like um there's no purpose to life. Um, and you're in this state for at least two weeks consistently, um, and you are experiencing these symptoms every single day. So the symptoms can look like, you know, insomnia or, you know, sleeping too much, um, eating too much or not eating enough, um, feeling extremely, extremely sad. All and by the way, all of these symptoms must be happening every day or nearly every day for two weeks. Um, and then, you know, loss of pleasure or interest in things that used to give you pleasure or interest. Um, so these are just some of the criteria that the DSM requires for you to, in order for you to be diagnosed as depression, and all of these symptoms um should not be able to be explained by any other thing going on. So, like if let's say, um, yeah, you're feeling depressed um and you haven't been sleeping much, but also you have something going on in your life or it's being caused by like drinking too much, or it's caused by some medication. So if it's caused by anything like that, then it might not be depression. Let's look into what what else is is causing these feelings. Um, another one would be if you um if these things and these symptoms are getting in the way of your work, your social life, everyday functioning, that's how you kind of know that okay, there's something a little more serious going on, and it probably is depression, you know? Yeah. And by getting in the way of your work, I'm not saying you miss work for a day. I'm saying you're neglecting your work every single day for the past two weeks. Maybe you got fired, maybe you're in trouble there. Maybe the past two weeks you're not seeing your friends, you're not seeing your family, you're isolating yourself from every single person. Like things like that. Once it starts getting in the way of your everyday life, then you know, it might be depression.

SPEAKER_00 5:34

Yeah. And it can look like that for so many people, but then there's also the myth and the conception of like, um, or the perspective of the people who who hide it, they mask it very well. Where like you are kind of like you're in public, and uh the person that comes to mind is Robert Williams. He's a comedian, and like he, you know, puts himself, he's always laughing and this and that. Well, he he did suffer from depression for a long time, and it's just like we don't know that, we don't know what it goes on internally, so it really can look different in in everybody.

SPEAKER_01 6:14

A hundred percent depression doesn't look the same for everyone, and it is there are different severity levels to it too, you know, kind of like you said in the beginning. Like you can have a mild form, you can have a severe form, you can have depression maybe caused um maybe it's seasonal, the seasonal depression. Um, and again, it can look different for some people. It can look like, you know, isolating themselves and being super like. I think when when someone thinks of depression, they think like can't get out of bed, like angry all the time, can't get out of the bed, like they think that, but that is so true now. Like it really can look like the happiest, bubblyest jokester around you, yeah, and they could be suffering the most and you and you wouldn't know.

SPEAKER_00 7:02

And you wouldn't know, and it it that's why it's scary sometimes because you truly can't know until you know they're they're in front of you and they're expressing what's actually going on. And yeah, there's so many cases like that, but so many cases where I see that there's like a milder form of depression and it comes and goes. And um I feel like with that it it's it's treatable and there's ways to go about it, but then there's also the very extreme cases. Like, do you remember that story about that? We learned it in grad school. It was about the lady who got brain surgery.

SPEAKER_01 7:40

My god, that story was crazy.

SPEAKER_00 7:42

Yeah, that story is crazy, and I I always remember it. It's it's ingrained in my head. Me too. But the story basically tells about a woman who had depression her whole life. Later in life, you know, she tried everything, she tried therapy, she tried medication, she tried all the necessary things that, you know, doctors or anybody would tell you to do, and nothing was working. It wasn't until there was a study, I think it was done at um in a college in San Francisco, and the study basically told us that the study was basically about um attaching electrodes to the brain to activate area, I think was it area 25.

SPEAKER_01 8:29

Yeah, it was they called it like junction 25 or something like that. Yeah, junction 25 of the brain. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:35

So it was an experiment to see if that could cure depression. And so she had nothing left but to try her option, try this option, and so she did. And while she was in the bed, it was an open surgery.

SPEAKER_01 8:50

It was she was awake during the surgery, yeah, because they were like obviously like in the brain, so they needed to see what they're hitting, where and how it's affecting, like they needed to see the progress as they were like doing it. As they were doing it, yeah. It's terrifying first and foremost. So cool though.

SPEAKER_00 9:06

As they were doing it, you know, they would tell her, like, you know, what do you feel now? She would tell them, like, no, it it's getting worse, or then it they'll put it somewhere else, and she'll tell them, like, oh my gosh, like, I've never seen colors this bright. I've never seen the world in this perspective.

SPEAKER_01 9:27

And she the the crazy part is also like when they were doing like the surgery, she wasn't smiling. Like she was like, she was saying like she hadn't smiled in a long time. She wasn't smiling. And then when they got to stimulating the area that they needed to, which was 25, um, she all of a sudden starts like smiling and like kind of like laughing. They're like, what's going on now? And she was like saying how like she just thought of like playing with her granddaughter and that brought her joy, which before she was like, even when I met my granddaughter, I held her in my arms. I like looked at her and I felt nothing. Like, I just felt nothing. So, like in that moment, she like she was like that that happiness, that just the thought of being around her granddaughter made her happy and she was smiling, and then talking about like exactly like you said, the colors being so bright and like whoa, like I've never seen yellow like this before. Like, this is new.

SPEAKER_00 10:23

It kind of really does make you understand that when someone goes to through severe depression like that, they truly are seeing life from a dull perspective. Like life is genuinely more dull. Yeah, it's not just the feeling of sadness, it's not just the feeling of sadness. Yeah, yeah. It's like my your brain is wired to look at the trees as a dull color, not vibrant, nothing is vibrant. And ever since that story, I really I went through life, and every time I take a walk, I would do like a mental health check within myself, and I would look at the trees and the colors of the world, and I'd be like, Are you seeing it as dull right now? And if you are, can you find me one thing that can look vibrant in in your environment right now so that can make you feel like okay, there's a bit of hope, there's a silver lining somewhere down the line. That would just be my little mental health check. How do you feel like it helped? And did it help? It helped because I I feel like it did help. Like, first of all, being in nature helps me just feel more calm, and second of all, me just looking for something made me feel like there was still hope. It just made me feel like, no, no, no, you are not gonna let yourself fall into a state of hopelessness. You need to keep looking for that hope, you need to keep looking for that silver lighting. So I feel like it helped in the sense of like, I'm going to try to find the vibrancy in my everyday life.

SPEAKER_01 11:52

And that's so powerful because that and like this story is like it's kind of saying, like, what I'm hearing is that everything around you is not changing, right? Like nothing, your your experiences are not changing. Your like not experiences, things that are in the world, that doesn't change, but your brain's ability and to experience it in a different way can change, and that's what changed the experience. It's how am I looking at it now? What is my perspective now? And it's just like such a like testament to like you can, you know, reprogram your brain, you know. So for some, it's more severe cases, of course, than others. It's not as simple, it's not as easy by any means, but it's just like such a beautiful reminder of like, okay, well, I can't change the world. Like, this stuff might never change. Things that I'm like seeing around me might never change, whatever it is that's causing the depression, but maybe my brain's ability to experience it in a different way can.

SPEAKER_00 12:53

Oh, that's beautifully said. I love that. It's it's kind of like saying, you know, I can't control the outside world, but I can control me. Exactly. I can control what I do, exactly. What I say, how I operate. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 13:08

Which is a lot of like what we do in therapy when it comes to like depression, you know, it's the CBT, cognitive behavioral therapy. It's the, you know, changing, you know, and reframing and reworking your thinking patterns in order to, you know, rework, you know, some of the behaviors and feelings that come along with it.

SPEAKER_00 13:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:29

So, and that's one of the biggest things that I really like love to work with is the, you know, separating what's within your control versus what's without outside of your control, you know.

SPEAKER_00 13:39

That's one of my favorite activities because not only just that, I love to do like work where it helps the client see life with their cup half full rather than half empty. And I feel like with depression, it's always a perspective of my life is half empty. Not all the time, but I feel like a lot of times when the seasonal depression, it's hard to see the good in the everyday. It's hard to see that, you know, today something good really did happen because most of the time my brain is telling me everything is just awful. Yeah, everything is just going to get ruined. I'm predicting the future, assuming that the worst is going to happen. And in today, like this event right now, this is just the absolute worst. I don't know how I can even get past this moment right now. So you're kind of stuck in that narrative. You're stuck in the I can't get past this. But the reality is everyone in this world is wired to be able to get through hard things. And I believe that wholeheartedly. And so it's it's it's a hard thing to go through, and I get it, not everyone is wired in in the same thought process, but your brain is able to shift and form and transform, and it's the the plasticity of the brain is is for it to grow and develop. And so I I I just want to give a word uh of hope because there is hope, and depression is a state of hopelessness. It is, so I think you need to search for the hope. So that's beautiful now. I kind of want to ask because I'm curious, Ange. But let's say one of our listeners right now is going through what we just described. They're feeling hopeless and empty and feeling like life keeps putting them down. It's been a rough ride for them, and they're having difficulty seeing the good in their everyday, kind of like what I just said. What would you say to them? Like, how would you help them get through what they're going through? Yeah, I think that's a really good question.

SPEAKER_01 15:59

I think it's again, it looks different for everybody. So, you know, um everyone might be struggling in certain different parts of life and with different forms of depression. But I think the one thing that um no matter what kind of depression you suffer from, that everyone can agree with is that depression is a liar, it makes you feel like there's no hope, like there's no future for you. Um, it's completely hopeless, you know, nobody loves you. And it has such a way of convincing you of that. Um so I think for one, and I'm saying this as like, I'm not saying this as therapist, Angie, I'm saying this as like human to human. Like remind yourself that there are people that love you, even if your brain's telling you that nobody loves you right now. Like, remind yourself that there are people out there that love you and would do anything for you. Remind yourself that your life isn't over. Even if you can't picture your future right now, it's there and it's waiting for you. Remind yourself that there are so many things in this life that there are to look forward to. Again, even if it doesn't feel like that in the moment, like I'm sure it's difficult to to even begin to think that that there is something outside of like the moment and the feelings that you're experiencing right now, but there is so much more. There are people that love you, you are valued, you are seen, you are heard, um, you're not alone. Um and take it one step at a time, you know, take it day by day, take it one moment at a time, you know. What can I do today? How can I help myself today? How can I make one change today? I'm not saying plan to conquer the world in a week. I'm just saying take it one day at a time, one step at a time, and allow yourself that grace and that patience because it's it's really not easy, you know, depression can become debilitating for so many people. Um so I think that would be my my piece of advice is just take it one day at a time and you're loved and you're valued, and your brain likes to play tricks on you, but doesn't mean that what it's telling you is true.

SPEAKER_00 18:22

But that was so so beautiful. Oh my gosh. I feel like there's definitely and and everyone I feel like goes through those seasons of like where it it does feel hard to accept those words, and it's hard to even understand like well, how can it be possible for me to even look outside this moment? Like it's not possible, yeah, but it is, yeah, it's very possible, and it can start with something as simple as just finding one thing to to be thankful for.

SPEAKER_01 19:00

I agree. That's simple, that's simple, and it and it's hard again to say that because we're saying this, but we know for people who are actually really suffering with depression, it's not that simple to them, you know. It's like that feels like the biggest task in the entire world right now. And that's understandable and that's okay, you know. So it's just like yeah, like I don't think we'll ever truly know how somebody and I hope we never know how somebody who is like suffering from depression is feeling like and and what's happening there, but I I hope it's some sort of like words of encouragement we're giving right now. Um, but if you can't hear it right now, that's okay too, you know, that's understandable.

SPEAKER_00 19:44

So yeah, yeah, yeah. It it is a hard thing to go through, but there are ways to help, and there's ways that have been proven and studied. And for me personally, in my own life, I've I've tried things when in my state of seasonal depression that have helped me significantly. So many things. Can you share with us some of some of those things? Of course. I feel like okay, when I was going through my seasonal depression, my biggest thing uh was uh was prayer. My my biggest thing was prayer. It's almost and if you're not religious, uh talk to someone about everything you're going through. If you're not religious, meditate. Do something where you can sit with yourself in the silence and you can vent out everything that your mind is experiencing and and uh just sitting with your sitting with that emotion, like not being afraid of it. Like I can sit with you and I can talk. For me, having expressing my words to God, expressing what I was feeling to him, crying it out, and just like almost like pleaing for help, just made me feel like there was a bit of hope. Like someone's watching out for me, and and there's there's hope. I I'm pleaing to my God. That was one, and I think that was the biggest one for me. Two, taking a walk, doing a form of exercise, and I know that's hard for someone going through depression. I know that's it's hard to get out of your house and get up and do something you really don't want to do. But when I tell you those walks were the most necessary part of my journey, because I could I could be in nature, I could go out, and I could listen to myself talk. I could actually listen rather than just talk. Like I was having a conversation with myself. I I don't know how why or the science behind it, but it just it was very healing for me to be able to listen rather than. Then my mind just blurt out a bunch of things and take over. So it was just it was peaceful. Um, something else I I did, which I think is so important. I know people are like, I'm not gonna do that, but journaling. I used to write poems, bro. I used to like not like Shakespeare, the author. I was like, yes, yes, yes. And reading it back makes you feel like, whoa, what a moment I was in. It almost makes you feel like that that was a separate thing from you. Does that make sense in you? Like, not even that wasn't me. It's like how intense was I feeling, and reading it back was like you kind of reflect on the moment of like it wasn't that serious. But I was feeling so deeply in that moment when I was writing it out. So it I don't know, it just kind of makes you realize like kind of what you were saying of the moment, like uh taking a step outside of of the in of the intense emotion, like you can get through that hard moment, like that hard moment isn't end all be all. Right, it's it's just a moment in time where you're feeling intensely, yeah. And I don't know, I guess that helped me put into perspective for the future that like sometimes the moment is just the moment, and a feeling is just a feeling and it's fleeting, and you can get through it.

SPEAKER_01 23:30

That is so beautiful, Nat. And I'm sure and I hope that like what you said helped somebody out there because they all sound like such helpful like tools and tips, and I don't know, it's just so beautiful to hear like that you can look back now at that time and be like, huh, like I got through that, you know? Like I was able to to get through that moment that and it's so important, like you just said, like the moment is the moment you just tend to forget it in that moment. You forget that this is gonna pass, you forget because it doesn't feel that way. So I love everything you said. This too shall pass. This too shall pass.

SPEAKER_00 24:08

That's actually a mantra I have in my head now. It's a beautiful one, it's a beautiful verse. I love it. Two of them are this well, that one, this too shall pass, and then the other mantra I love to tell myself all the time is you can do hard things. Oh, I love that. That's one of my favorites right now. It's a great reminder.

SPEAKER_01 24:25

So, what else would we say are helpful tips and tools for people who are struggling with depression? Like things to kind of like look into um to start doing or start paying attention to. Um, like for I think it's a given and it's obvious, but therapy. Yeah. Um, you know, again, everything me and Nat are saying is like we're, you know, on a podcast right now. This isn't a substitution for actual therapy at all. So we do highly recommend, you know, going to therapy, talking to someone about it, you know, seeking some professional help. Um another thing, medication can benefit many people. Um, and so medication is I think a huge one for people that can, you know, can really benefit from it, I guess the best way I can say it. Um sleep, I think paying attention to your sleep routine, you know, how much are you sleeping? Um, are you getting enough sleep? You know, are you getting too much sleep? That sometimes plays a role too. Eating, I think what you're putting in your body, like we said before, the gut and the brain are are very much connected. Um, and so the things that you are putting in your body play a role into your moods. Um yeah, those are just like some of like the main ones, the obvious ones I think that like we can talk about.

SPEAKER_00 25:46

Those are big ones. I feel like sleep, I want to touch more on that. Nobody realizes the significance of sleep. And if I was to look back on the times where I feel the worst, it's when I'm tired, when my brain didn't get enough fuel for the day. And so like that is a huge thing. And like, if anybody out there can actually work on developing a better sleeping habit, do it. Yeah, because I don't know, us, our friend group, we lifestyle would sleep at like 6 a.m. back in the day, yeah, and wake up at three. Yeah, yeah, you're getting a lot of sleep. It's about to drink too much.

SPEAKER_01 26:27

Yeah, too much. Too much is also not good. I think another big one also is exercise, too. Exercise is so big, like huge for your mental health. Yeah. Um, and any even if it's light exercise, like going in, like take a walk. Yeah, walk outside, be in nature, you know, move your body. Like, why do you think that is? Exercise?

SPEAKER_00 26:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:47

Well, for one, um I think that it's a form of like stress relief, right? Like exercising is a form of like it's like a getting getting out, getting the feelings out, getting the intensity that you're feeling and and your thoughts. Like it's just a place where you can, whether it's the gym or Pilates or you want to walk, whatever, it's it's a way that you're getting it out. Um another thing is I think your brain isn't thinking, like you're thinking of like what you're doing in that moment, you know. Like you're thinking mindfulness, exactly. Um, and also I think you're working out your brain. Like, like I think it's like you're working out your body at the same time, like something's happening in your brain where it's also working out. Um, so I think it just all like connects, you know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:37

Um like a runner's high where doesn't it like shoot up dopamine? I think so. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know the science behind it. I don't know either. Maybe I'm making that up, but like that's it sounds real. Like some people get runners' highs. And I feel like if you're getting a high, you're getting dopamine.

SPEAKER_01 27:53

Probably. Um, yeah, there just there's so much that goes into it. And also, like, I don't know if you've ever, I've realized myself, like, there are times where I feel so groggy and like my head is just like brain fogged to the max. Um, and the difference when I would work out, like, I wouldn't feel that. I wouldn't experience the like grogginess and the like brain fog and the I'd feel fine. And it was just like and clears your mind. It really does. I swear it does, um, in so many ways. So, and again, it's it's uh it's something that you're doing for you, you're getting out of the house, you're being surrounded by people, you know.

SPEAKER_00 28:33

It makes you feel a little bit more productive in your day. Yes, and I think that's something a lot of depressed people like kind of uh feel like they're lacking in life, of like nothing gets done, nothing works out for me, nothing will work out for me. But it's just like if you actively go and try to get one productive thing done a day, then you you had something work out for you today. Right. You got to get up and you got to go take care of yourself.

SPEAKER_01 29:00

I agree, and that's enough, like that's more than enough. Enough for the day. Yeah. Um, another thing, I think social support is really important, you know. Like, I know you probably don't want to be surrounded by anyone, but like force yourself to be like talk to a friend, you know. It doesn't have to be like, oh, we're going out to the bars or we're doing anything crazy. Like, no, just like ask them to come over, you go over, find something, go sit in the car, like just be with somebody, surround yourself with with you know, yeah, like socialness.

SPEAKER_00 29:34

Yeah. Um, I find that a lot of people who do have like either mild depression or severe depression or any form of depression, they want to self-isolate. They want that because I do think there's a level of like I don't want to burden someone else with my own thing. And so I'm going to self-isolate as a form of like people please, not people pleasing, but just like I don't want to put my burdens on you, and I don't want you to think of me in this light.

SPEAKER_01 30:04

I agree.

SPEAKER_00 30:04

And it's just like I'm not gonna have fun even if I'm with you. So, like, what would you say to that person?

SPEAKER_01 30:09

Yeah, I hear that all the time from a lot of clients actually, that there is this sense of like I'm burdening other people. Um and I would say put yourself in your friend's shoe, you know. If it was the other way around, if roles were reversed and your friend was going through it and not you, do you feel like they're a burden to you? Would you feel that way? You know, would you think of them in that light that, you know, I would rather not hang out with you? I'm sure a good friend wouldn't say that, you know. A good friend wants to sit with you through the hard and the good times, you know. I always say, like, obviously, it's easy to be a friend and the good, and when everything's going right, and when you're fun and when you're happy and when you're bubbly, that's easy, you know. But a friend is somebody that sticks with you through it all, like in your darkest times, in your, you know, times where you don't want to talk. If you just want to sit there with somebody, a good friend will allow you to do that without forcing you to just talk, you know, and just like be there for you and let you know that you're not alone. So I would say to that person, you know, put yourself in their shoes, you know. You know, and and and if that is a kind of friend that you have around you to where you know they wouldn't like accept you or want you, then maybe that's not a friend.

SPEAKER_00 31:30

That's not a friend. I agree. I also think like I don't know, for me, I social interaction is just too much sometimes. So what I would say to that person is find an activity where it doesn't take a lot of energy. Oh, that's good. Watch a movie together. For I love a movie because I can just sit there and be immersed in that experience, but watch a movie with a friend, don't just watch it by yourself. If they are willing to come and just tell them, like, hey, I really don't feel like talking, I don't feel like doing anything, but I really need someone to be there with me right now. And all I want to do is just sit and watch a movie, make some popcorn. To me, you're creating a activity that's enjoyable, but you don't have to put in that much work or effort, you know, like you're you're creating a positive experience for yourself where you don't have to put in all that effort, but you're still connecting with someone else. You're still I I know people say like it's not connection in the movie, but I I can promise you, after that movie is done and you've immersed yourself, you're gonna want to talk about the movie. You're not gonna want to talk about anything else. You're gonna want to talk about what you guys just experienced together, and you're going to talk and be like, what's next do you want to do? Like, there's so many things you can actually get out of that, totally, and it can lead to other things. So it that's not the only thing. You can literally sit and paint together. Like, just find something in your life that's enjoyable, yeah, or that you enjoy and make a positive experience out of it. I think it's so important for for people who are feeling depressed to find positive experiences.

SPEAKER_01 33:19

I agree. To find something, anything meaningful, anything it could be the smallest thing, but something that means something to them and have those experiences. I think another really important thing is for them to find structure, you know. Oh yeah. Find some sort of structure, a hobby or an activity to where you know will give you some sort of day-to-day structure, you know. Yeah. Because it's easy to like get lost and and not have and feel even more depressed and like you know, like unproductive and like worthless, and all the feelings that come with depression when you know you're beating yourself up about like not doing this or this or that. So create a structure for yourself, something realistic, I'd say. Again, don't zero to a hundred, but something realistic and like try to stick to it, you know, to help bring you back to like, okay, yeah, like life feels like life again.

SPEAKER_00 34:13

Also, something I learned in like my practice is something called mood moderating and um behavioral activation. So, what it is, is like you're taking data, you're recording at the structure of your life, like you said, what you did in the morning, what how did that make you feel, what you did at 10 a.m., what you did at 3 p.m., what you did at this, and you're monitoring the moods and the intensity levels of your moods, and you're looking for what's serving me and what's not serving me, and what can I add more of to make my day more enjoyable and my experience more positive? And what can I take away? What can I restructure? Because at the end of the day, hearing us talk in this moment, I'm like a lot of what can help depression is establishing a new routine in your life. Yeah, all of it, like doing the walks, doing the exercise, having a better sleeping schedule, um, what you choose to start your morning off. Right now, I'm starting my morning off with rotting on my phone, and that is not good. Same. It is not good for my mental health. I end up so foggy, not wanting to do anything the rest of the day. But then I did start my morning off a few times with a prayer of gratitude, a prayer of Lord, be with me today. And then I read a verse for me to have something to like uh have with me in my day, and then I might journal and have a cup of coffee and just sit with myself for like at least just 15 minutes, 10 minutes, five, I don't care. But starting my day off like that made me so much more productive and um what's it what's the word satisfied. There's a satisfaction of life that comes from that. Of like, I started off with good intentions to set the day up for success.

SPEAKER_01 36:14

I love that so much, and that's such a good point. Like, I didn't even realize, yeah, everything we were saying, like there's a structure to it, you know, and that is like a huge thing when it comes to depression. No, and I love, love, love that you have been trying to go about your mornings in a different way. Trying keywords, this is on trying keyword, but no, that's important. That's great. Are you kidding? Yeah, I've heard like, and we all do it. Like, I know I'm definitely guilty of it. Like, the first thing I do when I wake up is I look at my phone and I'm like on my phone. It's just like it's so bad. I heard you're supposed to like not go on your phone for at least 30 minutes after you wake up. Like that's like you're supposed to, you know, just wake up, go do what you need to do, whatever, give it 30 minutes and then get on your phone.

SPEAKER_00 37:02

Myself, the moment I wake my eyes, I'm like, who texted me? Like what's happening to my head. Yeah, yeah. Also, don't watch the news. Just don't you want a piece of news? Okay, have that one piece of news, but don't do it before bed.

SPEAKER_01 37:18

Yeah, I agree. I tell my clients that all the time, actually, especially the very anxious ones. Like, I'm just like, please, please don't watch the news, you know.

SPEAKER_00 37:25

Yeah, like just don't do it. Live your day for today. Like, don't stress yourself out by everything else in your life.

SPEAKER_01 37:32

I agree. Yeah. Um, one thing I do want to also like kind of bring up, and you know, sometimes, you know, maybe we're not experiencing depression ourselves, but we know somebody in our lives that is. And it's kind of hard because we don't really know how to help, you know, like we'll be like, okay, like I know you're going through this really difficult thing, but I don't know how to be there for you. I want to be there for you, but I don't know how. What advice would you give to somebody who, you know, is seeing their friend or family member struggle with depression and they're just kind of like, I don't really know what to do, what to say. Should I send them somewhere to get help? What it what would you what would you say to that person?

SPEAKER_00 38:18

It's hard, but you can get through it. It's it feels impossible, but it everything is possible if you put in the work and effort. And I am here. I am here for you. Whatever you need, whatever you need to vent out, like I am here to listen to you. I am here for you, and I will walk with you if you need someone to walk with you, and we're gonna find the silver lining in life. Right. I I would give hope to that person, and I would show them the hope that that they can find in their lives too, of like I I do love you, and I your parents love you, and you have done this and this and this, and what you can do is this, this, and this. It's not over yet. It's not over until you you um give up. And for me, that would be the worst thing in the world if that was that was the decision. There's there's another one, and I encourage you to choose that one. I think I think that's what I would say. That's beautiful. What would you say?

SPEAKER_01 39:38

Yeah, I think um I I I think I'd want to make sure that they know obviously that they're they're not alone because I I think a lot of people that struggle with depression, even if they see like 10 million people around them, they tend to feel lonely, you know. It's it's really, really lonely. It's a lonely feeling. So to know that that I'm there with them. And if we just want to sit through it, we're just gonna sit through it. But I'll be there next to them, like I'll be holding their hand. Um, they don't have to talk right now. It's okay. One day I'm gonna make you talk, but not today. Um, I would make sure I'm not saying, Oh, get over it, you're being dramatic. Or I would make sure I'm not saying, but what do you have to be depressed over? Look at your life. Or I wouldn't say, um, you're just feeling like that right now, but you know, you'll be fine. Like, kind of I wouldn't invalidate their experience. I wouldn't invalidate their feelings. I love the hope kind of thing. Yes, I love like presenting it in that like image that there is hope and there is like something more out there, even if you don't feel it right now. Um, but I would make sure, and my biggest piece of advice is just not to invalidate what they're experiencing and how they're feeling. Um, another thing, checking in on your friend constantly, you know, making sure that, yeah, you said you're there for them, but show them that you're there for them, you know. Constantly like text them, hey, how are you feeling today? You know, would you like a friend today? Is there anything I can do? Or do you want to go here? Do you want to grab a bite? Like, just check in on them, you know, let them know that you really are there and you really do care, you know. Um, another big one is when it feels like it's right to encourage them to get help, you know. Um, offer to help them like look for a therapist or um take them to one if they don't want to go alone or you know, seek medication, seek some sort of help. Encourage it, but don't force it. Forcing it will get you nowhere, and no one wants to be forced into something like this, especially when it has anything to do with mental health. I feel like you you really won't get anywhere if if you're being forced because the that part of you is not really willing and ready to accept that help. Um so yeah, I think those are all really, really big ones. And for that friend or that family member, know that you're doing everything you can do and you're a great friend, you're a great family member, and um there's only so much you can control. Um you do what you can, um you know, but take it easy on yourself too, because it's also not easy for a family or f or friend to see somebody they love so much struggling so much. It's also hard for them as well. So you're doing the best that you can do.

SPEAKER_00 42:45

For sure. You really are, and we uh wish you the the best outcome of life because life is worth living and it's beautiful, yeah. But yeah, I think our our main message here is to just look for one thing, one thing you can do today that can make you feel just a little bit better. Yeah, I think that's a really big key thing because it doesn't feel overwhelming and it it feels possible, it feels doable, and it's something that can give me a bit or a glimmer of of hope. Yeah, so I encourage you to find hope.

SPEAKER_01 43:29

I agree, I do too. And I think another thing that you know I want to like make, you know, or shed light on, especially because I know a lot of like the people that watch us, you know, are adubs, and you know, um, unfortunately we do have this like and we've talked about it a million times that we do have a stigma um when it comes to mental health and we when it comes to depression, and I think a lot of people, not just adubs, majority of people in general, again, don't really see how or understand that depression is more than what you just see on the outside, or someone can still be depressed, even if on the outside it looks like they have everything they could ever want. Um, all the friends, all the family, all the you know, money, all the success, all the everything, you know, someone can still be depressed. Yes, that can exist, you know. Someone can be smiling and still be depressed, someone could be the most positive person you know and still be depressed, you know. Depression knows no limit. Um, so I I want to say that. Um, I also do want to make it very, very clear. Me and that both wanted to make sure we make it very clear that we this episode is not in any way, shape, or form, again, a substitution to therapy or getting help. This whole podcast isn't a substitution to getting therapy or help. The things we say on here we hope will help and we give you our best piece of advice, but we're not doing therapy in these podcast episodes. And we encourage you so much to please get the help that you need, you know. Um, if you need help and you don't know where to start, you can message me or message Nat. And nobody has to ever know. Um, and we are more than willing to help lead you in the right direction. Um, tell a friend, tell a family, family member what you're feeling and what you need. Um make that appointment. Um so please, again, we want to say this is not therapy. This is just two girls on a podcast who happen to have mental health degrees, but we're this is not the same thing as receiving, you know, professional help in a therapeutic setting. Um, so we just wanted to make that very clear. And again, we're here and we love you and you're not alone. Please, please know that you're not alone. And we are so more than willing and ready to help if you if you are ready to receive the help. So just let us know.

SPEAKER_00 46:14

If you're listening today and you're struggling, feeling hopeless, and having thoughts of suicide, please know you don't have to go through it alone.

SPEAKER_01 46:25

There are people out there who genuinely want to listen and want to help you, and reaching out can sometimes just look like the first step of doing that.

SPEAKER_00 46:34

You can call or text 988 or visit 988lifeline.org slash chat to connect with trained crisis counselors anytime, day or night.

SPEAKER_01 46:46

And if someone came to mind as you were listening to this episode, please check on them, make sure they're not alone, and offer your help and offer that they seek medical attention as soon as possible.

SPEAKER_00 47:01

Thank you guys so much for being with us today. Take care of yourselves and each other. Bye. Bye.