Given Months to Live, Now He's in the Top 1% | Paul Toberman

Featuring Paul Toberman 

 📱 Instagram: @paultoberman

In this episode of the Live More Podcast, I sit down with Paul Toberman, diagnosed with stage 4 cancer of the bowel, liver, and lymph nodes, treatable but incurable, to talk about something most of us never have to confront: what it actually feels like to live well when your time is no longer unlimited.

Paul makes a point early on that stuck with me. Most of us live as though we'll always have more time. Paul was told the opposite, and instead of shrinking, he became one of the most positive, clear-headed people I've ever had in front of a mic. That gap, between the diagnosis he was handed and the life he decided to live anyway, is the entire premise of this conversation.

We get into the physiology and the psychology of it. Paul walks through the day he was diagnosed, how he told his kids and his parents, and the specific changes to diet, fasting, exercise, and mindset that have put him in the top 1% of responders to his treatment. He's blunt about the parts nobody warns you about: the side effects, the fear at 3am, and the moment a single negative thought, "another year of this," quietly started to drag him down until he caught it.

In this episode:

• The day of the diagnosis, and why his very first thought was about his kids and his parents
• What "treatable but incurable" actually means, emotionally and physically
• The diet overhaul with dietician Jane Clark: no sugar, no processed food, slow-cooked protein, 15 to 20 portions of fruit and veg a day
• Why he fasts before treatment, and the "lion in the Serengeti" logic behind it
• Exercise as medicine, and the research that backs starting even during treatment
• The side effects nobody talks about: neuropathy, "first bite syndrome," and cold sensitivity
• How the diagnosis brought his family and friends closer, and revealed "more love than hate"
• The mindset shift: refusing the word "incurable," and literally "waking up the neutrophils" before blood tests
• What he'd tell his younger self about food, sugar, and reading the shelf life on a label
• What "Live More" means when you're the one facing limited time

Key takeaway:

A diagnosis doesn't have to define you. Paul's results, top 1% of responders, didn't come from one miracle. They came from stacking 1% improvements across diet, fasting, exercise, and mindset, while refusing to let the word "incurable" run his life. The real lesson isn't about cancer. It's that roughly 90% of life is how you react to it and 10% is the event itself, and that living more is about what you do with the time you have, not just how much of it is left.

Studies referenced:

American College of Sports Medicine (ACSM), 2019: structured exercise during active cancer treatment is associated with improved quality of life and reduced treatment-related fatigue.

About Paul Toberman

Paul is a London art dealer, husband, and father of two who was diagnosed around 16 months ago with stage 4 cancer of the bowel, liver, and lymph nodes, described by his oncologist as treatable but incurable. Rather than accept that framing, he built a regimen around diet (guided by leading dietician Jane Clark), regular fasting, strength training, and a relentlessly positive mindset, and has become one of the top 1% of responders to his treatment. He's now writing a book about the experience in the hope of helping others facing a similar diagnosis.

Connect with me

🎙 Live More Podcast 

📱 Instagram: @biohackrob 

🌐 Website: https://www.biohackrob.com 

🔗 All links: https://linktr.ee/BioHackRob

If you enjoyed this conversation, follow the Live More Podcast on Spotify or Apple Podcasts so you do not miss an episode. A quick rating or review on Apple Podcasts really helps new listeners find the show, and if this one resonated, share it with someone who would get something from it.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Today's episode's gonna be different. My guest today is someone who is facing limited time. He's one of the most positive people that I've met.

SPEAKER_01 0:14

I remember very vividly two nurses and the doctor coming towards me, and I just knew from the look on their face that they were not coming to give me good news.

SPEAKER_00 0:22

I'm just curious, what was the first thought that went into your mind when they told you that?

SPEAKER_01 0:28

My first thought was, is it gonna be harder to tell my kids or my parents? My main focus was making sure my wife stayed calm. I stayed calm, and that I didn't want to tell anyone until I had a full diagnosis.

SPEAKER_00 0:43

Has cancer changed how you experience ordinary moments? 100%.

SPEAKER_01 0:49

I stopped thinking about words non-curable because I don't believe in them.

SPEAKER_00 0:57

Has cancer taught you how to live? Welcome to the Live More podcast, Paul. So today's episode's gonna be different. So live more is typically around peak human performance, health optimization, and longevity. But with that said, my guest, Paul, today has been diagnosed with stage four cancer of the bowel, liver, and lymph nodes. Most of us live as though we have unlimited time. My guest today is someone who is facing limited time. And I think there's a lot that we can learn from that. He's been told that the cancer is treatable but incurable. Yet, despite that, he's one of the most positive people that I've met. I want to understand what he's learned about life, health, resilience, and what truly matters. So, Paul. Take me back to the day you received the diagnosis. What exactly did the doctors tell you?

SPEAKER_01 2:22

Okay, so I thanks for having me. Glad to be here. Um so I'd had a I'd just take you back a little bit further because I'd had a few medical issues that ended up with uh my thyroid, so I'd been a smoker and you know had a basic bit of a misspent youth and what have you. And uh ended up seeing a lung doctor. I'd done a bit of damage, but nothing crazy that was gonna, you know, shorten my life. So I just stopped smoking that day. So that was 30 cigarettes a day and whatever I might have done, and I just went cold turkey, and I haven't smoked anything since.

SPEAKER_00 2:59

How long ago was that?

SPEAKER_01 3:00

That was about four years ago, and then it led me to an endocrinologist, a thyroid specialist. So I had an overactive thyroid, it was the second time it had occurred, so I ended up having uh a treatment and uh which was like a radiation treatment. So I had my own mini-COVID, so I was two weeks in a room because of the radiation. You know, can't cuddle your kids or what have you, it's just me and the dog, one of the happiest times of my life. Love you kids, and um basically the thyroids, when it's overactive, you lose weight, so that accounted for one thing. So I had lots of other symptoms, anyway. As that healed and I came off everything, what I realized was actually these symptoms aren't changing. So I went to my private GP and he said, You've probably got a polyp or something. So uh what is a polyp? So a polyp is like a little nodule, sort of around your uh digestive system. So uh what it would do is it would you know loosen your movements so you wouldn't have solid movements, you'd have much looser sort of movements, and I'd always been a very regular guy. So yeah, he sent me for a colonoscopy, and I'm very lucky because my wife works in private equity and has amazing um medical insurance, which I get the benefit of, and right little did I know how much benefit that would be. So I've been unlucky, I think, and I've also been very lucky, and I tend to focus on the luck side of it, which we'll sort of get into. Yes, but I you know I know not everybody has access to and to the people and things that I have access to, so I do feel very blessed in that regard. So yeah, so Private GP, who's you know, known a very long time, great sort of North London doctor, said uh let me send you for uh colonoscopy, which I had at the Wellington, and you've probably got a polyp or something. So why while they you have the colonoscopy, the camera, you know, it has the ability that they can they'll cut out the nodule basically when they find it. Anyway, they put you on fentanyl, I go into a bay, I haven't actually met the doctor, they wheel me in, they wheel me out, seem to be very quick, and then all of a sudden, I'm lying in a bed in the Wellington Hospital, and um I remember very vividly two nurses and the doctor coming towards me, and I just knew from the look on their face that they were not coming to give me good news. And the uh I don't know if he's a gastroenterologist or a surgist because I've you know only met him once and it wasn't face to face, comes in with a picture and he said, This is I can't get the camera around your colon. This is your tumour, and he showed me a picture of it. He said, I'm sure it's cancerous, I'm gonna get it sent off. And uh, do you want me to call your wife? And I said, No. And I said, I'll call her because I think you know that's the sort of news coming from me. It's a little bit shocking, you know, you're on the fentanyl, you're not really taking it in in a very clear frame of mind, and you're going there not expecting to hear that news. Then the nurses give you a little bit of background. Very, everyone, very lovely, treating you very well. They're obviously very sympathetic to the cause. Left there, called my wife, said, Um, babe, look, it's bad news, whatever it is, we're gonna fight it. But you know, they found a tumour, it's they're pretty sure it's cancerous, and uh I see you at home. So went home.

SPEAKER_00 6:32

The next day I I was at work, and they what sorry I'm just curious, what was the first thought that went into your mind when they told you that?

SPEAKER_01 6:42

My first thought was is it gonna be harder to tell my kids or my parents? Because your kids deal my kids at the time were 12 and 15, never a good age, at any age, to get this sort of news. But obviously, they even though they both have people in their class at school who've lost a parent to this illness, you know, you always think the worst case scenario, but kids deal with things in a you know a different way. Your parents at 80 years old understand that uh you know it's something that you don't wish on your worst enemy. So my main focus was making sure my wife stayed calm, I stayed calm, and that I didn't want to tell anyone until I had a full diagnosis. So what the doctor, the nurse had said to me is the doctors get together on a Friday, this was on a Wednesday, the doctors get together on a Friday, which happened to be my birthday, my 51st birthday, and they chat about the cases they've had, they'll get the results from the biopsy, and then they'll let me know. So I'm saying to my wife, I know it's worrying, we're just gonna carry on. So uh I went to work the next day, my dad sort of helps out, so I run an art gallery, helps out paintings, and I'm sat there, and my dad happened to be in that day, and I got a phone call from the doctor's secretary saying, You have to come in this afternoon right now with your wife. And then I absolutely ball my eyes out because I know that they're not calling to tell me that it's good news, and I uh I remember clearly, you know, my dad being very strong, and my dad's very emotional, so that that freaked me out. And I was like, I just gotta get some fresh air. So when I got some fresh air that afternoon, met my wife at the doctor's surgery, a gastroenterologist I didn't know, and he started getting a pen and paper out. I said, Look, it's not good news, Paul, because it's spread. Said so it spreads from the colon to the liver and the liver to the lymph nodes, localized lymph nodes, but you need to have an MRI and a PET CT scan. It's what we describe as stage four. Um, so the extra stages don't mean as much as I think we all think it means. What it basically means is it's move to another place. That's effectively what that means. So, yeah, that that was I think the most shocking time, and I remember going home that night saying that I don't really want to tell people until we meet up with an oncologist. So uh I want to tell the kids tonight when they get you know when we get home, and I want to tell my parents, and I want to sort of leave it at that. Um, and we were scared.

SPEAKER_00 9:32

And look, what would you say you were most afraid of?

SPEAKER_01 9:35

I mean, I was afraid of the fact that I was not going to make it, that it was going to be a very short process, so I didn't have a lot of time left when you hear a diagnosis like that. And how much time did they say you have to they didn't at that point because now that's the uh initial diagnostics? What they're doing in the next couple of days is uh speaking to the oncologists because of the breakthrough about five years ago in genome technology, what they were doing is lots of sort of biometric tests. So after I'd gone for my scans, which happened on the Monday, so I I know a few people that have gone through similar things, so I looked for a personal recommendation and had a you know brilliant oncologist on Harley Street called uh Dr. Sibtain, his name is Armand Sibtain, and uh spoke to him, arranged for a meeting. He said, Okay, first of all, on Monday, so it was a very long weekend, on Monday, uh in fact it was Monday, sorry, I tell a lie. On the Friday morning, I went and had an MRI scan on my liver and a PET CT scan. So PET CT scan is where they inject you with a little bit of radioactive nuclear medicine and a dye, and what it does is one of the things in the mix is glucose, and that sticks to everywhere in your body that has cancer. So we went to see him on the Tuesday, and he the stuff that they've done in those tests, they've sent off a biometric test, so they're breaking down the DNA of all the tumours and the lesions in my body. This is something that I don't even know if they do it on the NHS, I would imagine they do, but obviously it's something that's gonna take a lot longer, right? So went in on the Tuesday to see Dr. Sibtain with Emma. I mean, I was really nervous. Um, I told my kids they dealt with it quite well, and I said, we're just gonna see what they say. My parents were upset, and I said, Listen, whatever happens, we fight. And over the course of that weekend, because it was my birthday, people were phoning me up, and I was like, uh, send me a phone call just to let you know this is what's happening, I'll keep you posted. And what I've discovered latterly is how much love there is in the world, right? Not the hate that we read about all the time. And my wife and I had the sort of conversations that you don't wish on your worst enemy about what happens if, which my wife didn't want to hear about, but I was like, I need to say this stuff, and at that point we had no idea what was gonna happen. So, yeah, I went on the Tuesday to meet the oncologist, and that was a very somber conversation, and that's when he said to me, It's stage four, it's treatable, but ultimately it's non-curable.

SPEAKER_00 12:30

What does treatable but incurable mean emotionally?

SPEAKER_01 12:34

So, emotionally it means I think as you touched on in the introduction, my time is limited, and we all feel uh, you know, in our 20s and 30s, we feel invincible. Once you have kids and a wife and so on, you start to, you know, appreciate life a little bit more as you may have lost friends or family along the way to various illnesses. It just puts you, puts your mind, puts my mind in a different perspective. But I was thinking about thinking, right, if I can give up smoking as much as I did day one, and just say, right, I'm not doing it anymore, and just stop. I feel I'm actually stronger than I thought I was mentally. You know, I thought I didn't have a lot of willpower, I thought I ate a good diet, you know, meat a couple of times, fish a couple of weeks, chicken, salads for lunch, and what have you, but I've learned so much more. Um, and uh so the reason that it for me it's non-curable is where it metastasized between the colon and the liver, and that's an area that you can't operate on. So some of your liver regenerates, this doesn't. It's I mean, really, when I saw images of it, you know, my liver's been pulled on, it's touching the outside of my colon. So that's how tight they are, and you're talking about 34 millimeter uh tumours, seven millimetres, so right the way across the you know, intestine. So, for example, if I hadn't gone within a few weeks, because as it turns out, my illness is very aggressive, um they would have you know, I would have stopped being able to go to the loo, you know, it would have been like a total blockage, and then they would have discovered it anyway. Um, so anyway, they layer on the line, um, said we've got a good track record, because I said, Are you the man? Because I've only got one life, you've got lots of clients, lots of patients. And he said, It's not for me to say I'm the man, although he is regarded as one of the best people in the world, right? But I have every right to ask any question that I want to do, and I'm absolutely not a shy person, and you know, I I need information, I like information because then I know you know what I can what's going on. Um, and he said, I've got a record, he said he said it's not just me. He said there's a whole team, he said I'm running all the biometrics. He said I'm already talking to a liver surgeon and a liver consultant, I'm speaking to a bowel specialist and a bowel surgeon, and so on and so forth. So uh when we left that meeting, I remember saying to him, is it worth me getting treated? Because he said maybe at some point if the treatments work, so there's five main spikes of treatment. So we're gonna start with chemotherapy and immunotherapy, we're gonna insert a porta cath in your chest. So, what that is is a permanent catheter that basically goes directly into one of your main arteries, which sits just here, and uh, that's how they're gonna administer the treatment so they don't have to put holes in me all the time to do blood tests and things like that, or whatever. And I've got to say that when we left there, we were very low. Uh, he said there's five spikes of treatment, we go with one until it doesn't work, then we move to number two, number three, but cancer cells are very unpredictable, and none of us have any idea, including Dr. Sibtain and all of those scientists and that massive team doing stuff for me, and every other person. Unfortunately, I've heard about so many cases since I've been diagnosed. Um, but yeah, uh, we'll just have to see what happens. But he said, I know you're strong, he said, so you know, go home, come back in two days' time. I'm gonna book you in to have your report put in next week, and then treatment to start thereafter if you go with me. My wife works with uh an amazing uh oncologist or research oncologist called Professor Stebbing, um, and he has access to everyone in the world. So he actually um sent him, my wife sent him the scans. He had a look at them, sent them to like the chief professor at the Royal Marsden, who I'm not 100% sure, but I believe he's the person that probably treats the king, you know, and and Kate Middleton and had a second opinion, and they completely concurred. So I'm very lucky to have that uh second opinion. Um, and he concurred to the letter with what my treatment should be from Dr. Sibtain. So we came back on the Friday, and that was a more hopeful meeting because he said, you know, your tests are good. He said your liver function is excellent. He said, Um, you're gonna get through this. So it's gonna be six treatments of every two weeks, chemotherapy and immunotherapy. So we've been the immunotherapy and very slowly at the beginning. What is the difference between chemotherapy and so chemotherapy attacks the cancer and also damages other parts of your body, you know, it's quite poisonous to a lot of your body, and the immunotherapy uh treats the things that the uh chemotherapy damages. Bear reminder, I'm not a doctor, as you said, so I only said so. Please take anything as I'm giving you strict medical advice, I'm just saying it as I was told, as I dealt with it, as I handled it, as I read it in my mind.

SPEAKER_00 18:07

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 18:07

With the immunotherapy, you get lots of side effects. And he started touching on some of those. He said, You're not gonna lose your hair with your particular chemotherapy, which I took as a huge positive because I think visually, if my kids can see that I look strong, and other people can see that I look strong, I felt that that was uh a real positive to begin with. So my mind is already starting to think, right, we're not going home and rolling over, we're gonna we're gonna do everything we can. And what popped in my mind with Sodale Brailsford, who used to be head of the sky cycling racing team when we were winning all the Olympic golds with Chris Hoy and Brandy Wiggins and and all the Tour de Frances and what have you, and in an interview, and he said incremental differences, so a 1% here, a 0.1% there, right? And I was like, that's what I'm gonna do. Everything that's open to me, I'm gonna do it, and I give myself the best chance, and then whatever happens, hopefully you'll inspire your kids. And I'm only really thinking about my kids, you know. I'm not thinking about other people, you know. This is an opportunity that maybe someone hears something, gets my sort of diagnosis, and doesn't go home and think I'm just gonna roll over because people do do that. Um so anyway, I uh after the second meeting, I felt more hopeful because he said, you know, the signs say you're gonna do well. We don't know until we get started. So it's gonna be six treatments, so every two weeks. Um, you're gonna leave, so you're gonna have your chemotherapy, your immunotherapy, and what they do is basically they they plug me in, so like a pin with a like a plastic syringe on the end of it. The first time I wasn't aware of Emla cream, which numbs the skin and it it hurt a lot, so now I you know numb the skin before they do it, and I don't really feel it, and then they just start loading up bags, so it's things like saline to clean it, uh, and then you need things like glucose, you need steroids, and they're putting in bags of chemotherapy. You have a blood test, which I actually do the day before because it saves time, and then with the doctor's diagnosis and the uh blood test results of that day, they then make your chemotherapy there and then. I thought chemotherapy was a medicine, it's a concoction of medicines, and it is exclusive to your uh particular illness.

SPEAKER_00 20:36

So they look at your blood biomarkers, that that that sort of thing.

SPEAKER_01 20:40

So the blood tests, they're looking I never Googled anything, okay, because I don't see you know it's always the worst news that comes up first. I just let the I say to the doctor, that's your job, I'll do my stuff, you do your stuff. And he said, I'll never he said, I'll never fluff around, I'm never gonna predict the future. I will just say to you, each you'll come to me every three months, he said, and you'll have had six treatments, he said, and then we'll do a CT scan and an MRI on the liver, I'll tell you where we are, and then we go again, or something changes. Right.

SPEAKER_00 21:12

So treatment takes place every three months.

SPEAKER_01 21:14

No, I so the scans take place every three months, I have treatment every two weeks. Okay. So my general schedule is let's say I go to work on a Monday, on a Tuesday. I must say my boss was amazing because he said, Here's a pay rise. You work when you work, he said, and when you can't work, you don't work. He said, and I'll pay you forever. So that's a relief off my mind already, right? Which is it's amazing, you know. You think you know people, but you never know until you're in that situation what they're how they're going to react. So I was very relieved at that. Sorry if I'm jumping a bit back and forth. But it's about 15 months ago, and there's quite a lot of stuff, although I know I think there's other stuff that's more important to talk about, but I do think it's important to get this out because you know, at the beginning, it's your your mind's playing. Tricks on you, you're lying awake at night thinking worst-case scenarios, right? So, uh, which I tried to sort of get out of that mindset pretty quickly, which I did manage to do anyway. So I'd go to work on a Monday. This is still my schedule now because I really try and live in in two-week cycles. I go to work on a Monday, Tuesday morning. I go to Harley Street on my way to work, they do my blood test because that saves me two hours of sitting in the hospital on the next day when they make my medicine. Work Tuesday, Wednesday I go and have my treatments. I go, they plug me in, start loading me up, and um I have my routine, which I'll talk about a little bit later because it came in a little bit later. And then you when I leave, they inject me with a load of chemotherapy. So chemotherapy only works while it's going into your body, right? Right. So they leave me with this pump which is connected here, so it's a little barrel about yay big, and it's got about 48 hours worth of chemotherapy in it, and it's self-perpetuating. So it's taped to my chest, and then someone comes to my house. I go home, someone comes to my house on the Friday from Lloyd's pharmacy, which is through my booper, and they disconnect me, run the saline drip through it, release the pin. You can't really shower while you've got it on. You certainly can't sleep, certainly on the first night, but that's mainly the steroid more than the fact that you don't want to roll over the barrel or what have you. And uh I would say Friday, as soon as the barrel empties, that's when you're like, oh, you know, you I can almost feel it to the second of when it runs out, and that's when sort of fatigue hits in. And then Saturday and Sunday, uh that's when I'm at my most tired, and the side effects are at their you know strongest. And then Monday I go back to work, and then I work a full week, I take the Wednesday off, and I listen to my body. So, you know, if I can't, if I don't feel it, I take it easy. But I've never missed any days of work or days that I want to work because that's when I feel like my most normal, and that's what I try and that's what I try and do. So yeah, that was the beginning. And then I went into the Harley Street Clinic, they popped this thing in my chest. Two days later, I had my first chemotherapy, and I was bricking it when I went in because I'm thinking I'm gonna be throwing up everywhere, I'm gonna how do I handle it? What do I eat? You know, you couldn't have breakfast because you're like your mind plays a thousand tricks. But actually, in my particular case, and there's different cancers and different treatments, and everyone deals with it differently. They plug me in, I'm just sitting there watching stuff on my iPad, and that first time is about six and a half hours because they drip feed the immunotherapy in slowly because they want to see how you react to it, give you an ECG the first time, they always take your blood, do a urine test, and I'm in 95 Harley Street, which is in a basement, 24 bays over two rooms, there's people with all sorts of illnesses they're treating, people like not looking great, and uh one of the things they give you is an anti-nausea drug. So, I mean, I haven't thrown up once since I got diagnosed, which is great because I've got a fear of it. That's one thing that I was scared of, and more other people than myself, but they came up with this thing ten years ago, and they give you this pill, and people aren't really throwing up around you. Ten years ago, 99% of people are throwing up in the room, you know, while they're having the chemo. I didn't have that. You can eat through it, so the doctors are like just eat normally, eat what you want. Um and yeah, so that was the beginning.

SPEAKER_00 25:46

Does it lower your immune system, the ability to fight? Absolutely. So, on one hand, the chemotherapy is treating the cancer, but it's affecting your immune system as well.

SPEAKER_01 26:00

So, what he told me at the beginning, and this is something that I do now, he said at some point he said your neutrophils, which are your white blood cells, so when you cut yourself, they're the things that go, they're the first thing that go to the cut. So they're your first line of defense, and your body's not making enough. So after I remove the barrel, 24 hours later, and the next two days, I have to inject myself with a preloaded injection, and what that does is it makes the bone marrow uh produce more of the neutrophils. So if your neutrophils are too low, they can't give you the chemotherapy because you can't handle it. Got it, and most people so they fight infection, essentially. Exactly right, they're the first line of your immune defence, so yeah, it it weakens everything. So then I got put onto a dietitian whose name is Jane Clark, who's the most unbelievable like you can't get to her unless you know someone, and for me it was Professor Stäbbing, who by the way I've never met. He speaks to my wife, so I've got no connection. And Jane set up the first ever private dietetic clinic in this country some years ago, so she was the writer for, and forgive me if I'm wrong, it was either the Times, the Telegraph, The Observer, and the Daily Mail. I believe she was the dietitian for Jamie Oliver's school program, many other, you know, famous and amazing people. She's an amazing human being, and I now I basically we've always zoomed, so I zoom with her every two weeks, and at the beginning we just have an initial meeting, right? Booper don't want to pay for that, so uh she was like, Don't don't take that, just tell them they're paying for it, and that's it. And she ain't cheap. So uh, so straight away I've already started to talk. So after my first treatment, I've started to talk. Most people, so they give you after three months, so after your first six treatments, you're going for a scan. Now, what I rectified in my mind is I don't want to think about the scans. So everybody else is worried about the scan, or not even worried about the scan, yeah, worried, scared. What are they gonna say? And in those first three months, you've got no idea if anything's working because you just feel a kind of way, so you've got no idea. And that first one is actually a CT scan, not a PET CT scan, so a much quicker scan and an MRI of the liver. And uh, I think some people will call it scanziety, but I don't think about what he's going to say until I'm in the lift at Harley Street. So I've got 15 seconds where I think, oh, I hope it's gonna be good. Then I meet him at the lift and he shakes my hand, hypo, come in the office, can't read his face, don't play poker with him, right? And then you go into the office, and fortunately, after my first three months, the first thing he said was, You're doing amazingly. So it was a bank holiday. I remember it was I had the scan on the Friday, I meet him on the Tuesday, it was a bank holiday on the Monday. Right. So it was this time of year because I got diagnosed in the February, and he said, I didn't wait for the radiologist. He said, I got on it, me and the clinical nurse in your case. We both separately downloaded your results because we know from your blood test that you're doing well, but we want the proof. And everything had sort of reduced by about 50% after three months, 40 to 50 percent. So the lymph node have reduced the liver, the main one that was 34 mil is 17 mil. The main one in the colon, bear in mind there are uh you know, there's other lesions and tumors you know in these areas, um, and that was an amazing feeling to be able to have some good news to tell people because I think the people that are affected the most are my friend group, yeah, because it's one of us.

SPEAKER_00 30:01

Yeah, how did it impact your relationships in terms of you know, from point of before and after diagnosis and going through everything?

SPEAKER_01 30:09

So it's brought my family closer together. So factions that didn't speak now speak every day. I think it's a blessing, you know. I really do. People that I hadn't seen for years that heard through the grapevine reached out to me, and that means a lot to know that people care. I'm talking about people that I worked with 25 years ago. Um you you feel the love. I had people sending me things from their imam who were saying prayers for me. I had people sending me prayers from rabbis, from priests, you know. There's one thing this actually makes me I try not to get too emotional because I although there's no shame in that, but an expression when I was sat in Dr. Sibtain's office for our second meeting right at the beginning, he said someone that I respect very much called me up and said this guy gets all the treatment. Like this is a special guy. I don't feel like that. I just feel I don't feel like that at all. I don't and to hear that I actually lately found out who it was, who was someone pretty let's say extremely high up in the you know UK medical business, and that's because my my believe my GP had spoken to him and say, Look, I know Sigtain's amazing, but this guy needs to we need to find a way. Um so yeah, I feel like it's made us all closer, um, definitely have better relationships. With my friend group, you know, we meet up a lot more, and uh I said to them, I think they should set up their own group that I'm not in to talk about. And what you've got to remember is at this time we've got no idea what's what's gonna work and what isn't gonna work. And uh once I started seeing Jane and we started having conversations, and she said, Right, I want you to start taking, they're gonna tell you to eat everything. She goes, You're not gonna do that. She goes, and you're gonna listen to me because my job is to get your body in the best place for the medicine to work. And because it's not medical, you know, it's viewed more as research and holistic. Right, scientists don't uh concur or need a bit more convincing, or just don't care that this is how we do it. So she said no sugar, she said because uh cancer feeds off sugar, absolutely no processed food, because uh you know you're just not eating well enough. You thought you ate a good diet. Your best friend is slow cooked protein, scrambled eggs and smoked salmon, um lamb shank, roast chicken, chicken soup. She goes, There'll be time in your treatments you won't want to eat. So you have to find a balance also because you do need a bit of weight on for the medicine to work.

SPEAKER_00 33:12

Right.

SPEAKER_01 33:13

And I was started, I was about 91 kilos. Right. And so I basically stopped doing everything. I've got a sweet tooth, so every night used to me and my wife used to have a cup of tea, maybe a pack of half a pack of custard creams, a bar of chocolate. I went from that to one cube of 70% dark chocolate every three months, and now I don't even do that. I have the very odd cheat if I go on holiday, which might be a whiskey neat, right? No mixers, but I never have, I only drink water, um, and it's a very rare cost. So, for example, coffee doesn't affect cancer, salt doesn't affect cancer, sugar's a big thing. Yes, cancer loves the sun, doesn't like the cold. Um so I've started to lose that's interesting, I don't know that.

SPEAKER_00 33:59

So cancer loves the sun, doesn't like the cold.

SPEAKER_01 34:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:02

Why is that?

SPEAKER_01 34:03

I I couldn't tell you. But what I do is I when I go on holiday, I sit in the cabana. I don't go out, you know, under the sun. And in the cold, I make sure I walk my dog every day.

SPEAKER_00 34:13

Because on one hand, we're told it's good to be in natural sunlight because of vitamin D.

SPEAKER_01 34:17

You need the vitamin D. Yeah. So I had a vitamin D deficiency actually, so I take vitamin D every day anyway.

SPEAKER_00 34:23

Um, but yeah, I I W Were you told to take any other supplements by the dietitian, so things like omega-3.

SPEAKER_01 34:30

Uh no, so I take a probiotic every day, I take B6, and I take L-glutamine. And they tried to give me like this magnesium tablet, but it just that made me ill. That just ran through me. So now if I take a bath, I do it with like magnesium flakes, so I I get it that way. Okay. Um you get lots of side effects, right? So, for example, now I can't really feel my hands or my feet, so I I don't wear I can't do buttons or shoelaces or hold a pen, you know, a little bit. Um at the beginning, it's really weird, like you're super sensitive to the cold. So I take the dog's food out of the fridge, it's like super painful. When you walk out into the cold, your uh esophagus goes into spasm, it feels like your throat's closing up.

SPEAKER_00 35:26

So your senses become more aware, it's totally heightened.

SPEAKER_01 35:30

Like some I I view it like I feel like a you know, like a superhero who's like fiery, I feel like a Sith Lord that's firing like electricity out of my feet, you know, it's so worrying. I I've learnt, and they've after about a year of treatment because I've done so well, they took out something called oxaliplatin, which is part of the immunotherapy, and what that did was stop a lot of those other side effects, but it's made the other side effects a big six months in, so that's 12 treatments in a row. Most people don't get to their first through their set of 12 because it's just too much with the side effects. Oh, and the worst one, which my kids used to think was very funny, is something called first bite syndrome. Not everybody gets all of these, so everybody's different, right? If you imagine the first time you take a bite of a meal, someone is drilling a proper drill in your jaw. When I say it's it's I think it's the most painful thing that I've ever has ever happened to me. And that's just the first bite. After that, I could just eat normally. Ten minutes later, if I have something different, I get it again. And I'm conscious, or I was conscious, I don't get it anymore. We sat there at the table.

SPEAKER_00 36:45

What's the science behind that? What's the reason for that?

SPEAKER_01 36:47

It's how your brain is reading, it's what they call neuropathy. So it's how your brain is reading the immunotherapy signals, basically, through your brain, what it's sending out. So I I have no idea the science behind it, and I try, like I say, I try not to Google things because that's out of my control.

SPEAKER_00 37:07

So every time you eat something new, you have this first sensation.

SPEAKER_01 37:10

I had this uh for for about a year until they took out the oxaly platinum, and what I would realise is so what was that sensation? It just like someone's drilling in your jaw without an anesthetic. I mean, I'm not talking about a dentist drill, I'm talking about a pneumatic drill. It's unbelievably painful just to move your jaw, and it honestly, I couldn't tell you how painful it was. And what I would realise is we'd be sitting down to eat, and I'd be sitting there like this, go, I'm really focusing on eating that next that first bite, and I realize the kids are just looking at me, videoing me just laughing. What's wrong, Dad? What's wrong? Just eat something. First bite, what are you chatting about? You know, and all this sort of thing. And anyway, once they took out the Oxali Platinum, I still get a little bit of it, but it's not quite the same. But you know what? If the treatment's working, everything else is a byproduct. Yeah, so basically everything I do hurts. If I open a drawer, it hurts. If I open a car door, it hurts. If I pull a drawer, it hurts. It's not 10 out of 10 pain, but because of the sensation, it's weird because it's not the same as having no feeling, it's like having the worst case of pins and needles. When you touch things, it's like super sensitive at the same time as not being having a grip. So literally, if I make myself soup in the microwave, I carry over to the breakfast bar, pulled it into a bowl, I don't realise my thumb's in the soup, I'm not aware of it. Then it takes such a long time for the message to get through that I'm burning my thumb, and next thing I know, I'm wearing the soup. The floor's wearing the soup, and I'm dropping my plate, and I'm dropping my you know, I'm swearing every five seconds because I can't do buttons, so the kids have got to do my jeans up, or my wife, and I was like, they're amazing, by the way. You know, they've handled it unbelievably well. Um, I'm so proud of them. But you know, that I'd have them doing my shoelaces before I went to work, and you do hide stuff, you know, because you want to be strong for people. Yes, um, but I do have a natural positivity. I can see that. Uh definitely, yeah, and and like I said, I'm so grateful for so many of the things. But Jane, in particular, is very good. So I take all those vitamins and supplements, and she would say to me, Look, for you, don't microwave your vegetables. For you, what you need to do is break it down in a bit of olive oil, right? So slow cook in the oven. She said that's the easiest way for you to process because she said you you need to specifically because it's the bow, you know, things need to keep moving. So she also helps the mental side of it. So we'll talk about lots and lots of things. Because I think to myself, what are you going to speak to a dietitian about after the first three weeks? Do you know what I mean? That's my ignorance at the moment.

SPEAKER_00 40:01

So you would say she actually helped you with the mindset side of things as well? Totally.

SPEAKER_01 40:05

Because, for example, in February, I that was my year anniversary. We went away, we treated ourselves to like a holiday to Mexico, came back, had my scan, sat there with Dr. Sid Tane, and we were just like, I know you don't like to predict the future, but what is what are we looking for to change before something happens? And he said, Well, we'll try and keep it where you are. So basically, when I went back after six months' scans, maybe in the nine-month scans, got to a point where everything was as flat as it could be, so the glucose wasn't even attaching itself to the tumors.

SPEAKER_00 40:44

Amazing.

SPEAKER_01 40:45

They're still there, right? So if you imagine a tumour is a sponge, when you squeeze a sponge, which is what they did to my tumour, is they drained it all out, you've still got the sponge, so it's still there. And I will say that the oncologist said to me on more than one occasion, if this treatment wasn't working, you wouldn't be here now. So that's a really positive thing, you know, yeah, exactly. And you could also take that as a well, you know, gosh, that's like a shock to think I could just not be here because it just didn't work, which will have happened to many people, but you know, not everyone gets my results.

SPEAKER_00 41:22

Yep. Has cancer changed how you experience ordinary moments? 100%.

SPEAKER_01 41:28

So what I've tried to do is get rid of all the anger in my life, which might be shouting at drivers on the road, opposing football teams, my football team, uh, not getting a deal done at work, not being quite so strict with the kids, although they may disagree. Um, but I've tried to be a bit more positive, I've tried to be more open. What I have found is people sort of open up to you, so maybe there's something like shared trauma, so you lose yourself in their issues for a moment, and they lose their selves in your issues for a moment, right?

SPEAKER_00 42:11

Um so your vulnerability makes them become more vulnerable as well, and they open up as well, and they they all say things that they ordinarily wouldn't do.

SPEAKER_01 42:19

Exactly right, and I'm I'm quite open anyway, I'm a chatter, you know, which will be totally evident by now. Um, but I really feel the being positive, getting to the point, you know, I started to write a book, which I'm doing now, just and that's basically for myself. But hopefully at some point in the future, if it gets out, it helps someone else in position. But right now, you know, it's amazing the clarity with which I remember stuff, you know, and how vivid it is. Um so putting it down on paper, I think, is a very useful thing to do, and it does help your you know, think about things in your memory. And what I found is other people gravitate towards me. So my parents' friends might call me up and say, Look, I know this person, this member of staff, this friend, this cousin that have been diagnosed. Can I give them your number? Right, and I will anyone sometimes they call, sometimes they don't call. And there's been quite a few people that I've spoken to that have been diagnosed after me and have already rung the bell and had the all clear. So they, you know, everyone's different. Yeah. And I know that I feel I've helped them in a tiny way, which might just be saying, if you're having the paw pudding, get the Emla cream so you don't feel it when they, you know, pierce your skin every time. Well, my daughter thought it was hysterical. She made me fo she made me film it once because she says I want to see the pain because we've been away. So I I I basically I've only had two delays in my treatment. I've only had two weeks where they pushed it a week one for my summer holiday and one over Christmas. Right. Everything else I fit in between because I don't really want to miss out on stuff. But yeah, I I do feel that um Uh I do feel that speaking to other people I think other people do think to themselves, actually, this issue that I've got ain't such a big deal. Yeah. You know, and what I the other thing just going on about mindset and what helped me is I stopped thinking about the words non-curable, because I don't believe in that. What I believe in is I'm gonna do everything I can, dire I went on to exercise afterwards, lifestyle, how I want to come across, how I want to be, and then science will catch up.

SPEAKER_00 44:42

Has cancer taught you how to live?

SPEAKER_01 44:46

I mean, I lived a life, you know, in uh I was very I was naughty at school, and uh, you know, my brother was a prefect, and uh, you know, I left school, uh, I was a year ahead of school, but you know, I got no qualification, so I've always like you know started off selling double glazing door-to-door and life assurance and so on, and then you know, found my way into a career. So, you know, I've had to I've had to blag my way through, I would say, and that's why I tried to push the kids because I don't want them to have to work as hard as I did. But I had amazing life experiences. I used to be away like four or five months a year selling the most amazing works of art, and my boss used to send us first class everywhere, BA, used to stay in the best hotels, no limit on the credit cards, we were just out having a great time. Um, and that was like all through my sort of late teens, 20s, you know, mid-30s. Um I definitely appreciate things a little bit more. So if I treat myself, you know, I want to go to like a Michelin-style restaurant, but I'll anywhere I go to eat, and I don't eat out very often, I I look at the menu beforehand. Like, what can I eat? So for me, I don't eat a lot of carbs, I don't eat a lot of uh flour, like I say, no processed food at all. Well, ultra-processed food, yeah. As little as I can, you know, I never eat a sausage, I never eat, you know, my go-to breakfast would be a bacon sandwich. Now it's every morning it's Greek yogurt. At the moment, I'm doing it as a shake with you know, like frozen berries, you know. I'm trying to have 15 to 20 portions of fruit and veg a day. That's what brilliant Jane has said to me.

SPEAKER_00 46:30

This is the next phase polyphenols and antioxidants.

SPEAKER_01 46:33

Exactly right, and she said, I want you to change them, I don't want you just having blueberries, and then it'll be natural fibre, so it'll either be prunes, pears, or apples within that, and then I'll probably have some chaia seeds or whatever you call them, uh, or whatever it might be, and then I'll have a second breakfast. So I'm eating little and often, so I don't eat big meals, so a bit of smoked salmon and scrambled eggs. I eat a lot of avocado, a lot of smoked mackerel, maybe my homemade chicken soup, which as I asked the oncologist, this doesn't cure everything, apparently not. So it's just a myth. But uh what she said is when you have dairy, it needs to be full fat because you need those fats on you. So yeah, when I started, I was 91 kilos. For the next few, for my fur once I started getting into the diet, which was very early on in my treatment, I was losing about a kilo and a half every two weeks, and then I leveled out about 80, 81 kilos. So, first of all, I felt good in myself because what's missing the sugar. So I know when I have that one cube of 70% chocolate, it makes me feel rubbish for three days, right? Right? So I don't want to do it. I mean, yeah, do I miss the odd dessert, a bit of ice cream? Yeah, of course I do, but whatever.

SPEAKER_00 47:46

I'm curious, did your dietitian tell you anything about the difference between like organic and you know fruits that aren't organic? Is there is there a difference according to a dietitian like her?

SPEAKER_01 47:58

Well, you don't want high sugars, so you don't want like overripe bananas, right, mango, pineapple, right? That sort of thing, where it really turns to sugar in your body.

SPEAKER_00 48:08

Um what about in terms of, for example, like blueberries or 100%.

SPEAKER_01 48:12

Blueberries, raspberry, but does it have to be organic? She didn't say that, okay, but we tend to buy that. You know, the one thing I will say is I feel poorer now because my food bill is like gone through the roof, as you do, but I think it's worth it. Right. And I actually believe the reason that so many people get diagnosed is the diet. What she said to me is she said, For you, the vegan diet is the worst kind of diet because there are so many processes in making it edible, and I'm not I'm not down on vegans, I'm not dissing it. That's I'm just telling you what she told me. So, you know, I know a lot of people live by it, but for my particular illness, that that's a no-go.

SPEAKER_00 48:51

So I've done a qualification in neuroathletics and peak human performance, and yeah, my coach basically said the same thing. Okay, interesting, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:59

Yeah, but this all comes from research, you know. She she's she's got her eye on the ball, yeah. She knows everything going on, she's treated everyone and anyone, and all sorts of different diseases, so it might be people with heart disease or lung or so on. You know, she's a real, you know, she's an amount honestly. I I can't I thank her all the time. So every time I get my scam results, I thank the medical team, I thank all my friends and family that care, and I I thank her, and I'm like, thank you for doing what you're doing for me. And then she said to me, you know, you need to do a bit more exercise. So once everything started to work, everything's flat lined, they've taken some of the meds out. So now I see a personal trainer, a guy called Michael Brown at Fitness Workspace, who happens to be one of my best mates since school, who refuses to take my money, which I find you know aggravating because I'm taking his time and using his gym and what have you. Like I've been this morning, so I go there and we started off very slow. I've never been to the gym in my life. Right. Oh my god, I feel so good when I leave the gym. I'm exhausted because the last thing he does, he makes me do crunches to failure. A phrase I'd never heard before. Um, but I had started to, you know, we start off with we do stretching, rowing, bit of stretching, some weights, so shoulder pulls, dumbbells, farmer's lifts, farmer's carries, um, on the bike, so uh, you know, high intensity, start, stop, start, stop, and all sorts of things. And basically, each time I go there, because I'd never been to the gym in my life, literally, he had he says, Right, we're gonna start off slow because I don't need to overdo it. I also have the other caveat of gripping things is very difficult, so I don't want to break my toes by dropping dumbbells on them. So I really I really have to focus, and even doing simple lifts like that, I I couldn't get my balance, so it took me a couple of sessions to to work it out. But every time I go there, we try and set records on everything we do. So whether that's reps or increasing the weight or reducing the rest time or bringing different things in, we do. So it's on the app. Jane wanted me to record my give me a target. So she says, you know, I'm about 20. When I started, I was about 23% body fat, and my BMI was about 27. That probably means something to you, means nothing to me. But I was like, right, I want to get down to the teens, and then I want to get to about 15 because that gives my body the best. I don't want to go lower than that because I I I need, and you know, every time I go, it reduces slightly, and that's good enough for me. So incremental improvements.

SPEAKER_00 51:49

Absolutely. Well, there's a study in the ACSM in 2019 saying that exercise during cancer treatment improves quality of life and reduces fatigue. So a lot of what you said shows it shows, yeah, that exercise is really, really important.

SPEAKER_01 52:05

Apparently, there was a I might get this wrong, but I think Jane said there was a conference maybe in Singapore or Japan last year, and they were saying for bowel cancer at the beginning, so early diagnosis, which I didn't really have, um exercise is as important as medicine in turn and diet in to how well you recover. It might not cure you, but it gets you in an amazing place for the medicine to work.

SPEAKER_02 52:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:34

So if I say to Dr. Sibtain about the diet, I wouldn't say he rolls his eyes because he's like, whatever's working, don't change it, because it's working. Um and then uh but I've got a friend, really good family friend, who thankfully has come out the other side, was getting treated by him, and it was on her recommendation. I don't like to talk about other people's stories because it's not it's not mine to share. Yeah. But you know, Sib Ta Dr. Sibtain, knowing how important because Jane will look at my blood test and she'll call Dr. Sibtain and said, I've noticed this, can I do that? You know, so they they know each other anyway, which helps as you discover the upper echelons do. And my friend is not, you know, she's got none of that diet information. You know, she had a sheet, stick to a white diet, baked potatoes and stuff. I mean, and I think to myself, you know about this, you know, I personally feel that anyone, and that's on the NHS or anywhere, should have access to this information, not just someone who's as lucky as me to have access to someone like Jane.

SPEAKER_00 53:42

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 53:44

That's that's totally what I feel.

SPEAKER_00 53:46

Cancer doesn't just reveal your health, it reveals your relationships. What did it reveal to you?

SPEAKER_01 53:53

It revealed there's a lot more love than hate. It it can bring people together. Um it when people hear the words, they rear back, you know, like a horse rears up. It's such a scary thing to hear. And it's such there's so many positive stories out there that you hear, but obviously there's many, many sad stories. And um I feel that it some people hear the word and mentally they just switch off and they're like I just don't want to suffer it. And in fact, I was having uh I was chatting to the dental surgeon and he said that his father-in-law got diagnosed and was like, I don't want to have treatment, I want to have quality of life with my grandkids, and I yeah, I I I don't judge anybody, you know, and that's what he decided to do. But then I also think to myself, you know, he's only in his mid-sixties at this day and age that that ain't old, yeah, and there may have been a way, but also at the same time, people are scared. So I think when people hear the word, they get scared. I've sort of charged at it and been like basically F you to cancer. That's what we did, that's what we went to Mexico for. Yeah, it's a year anniversary, I'm still here. You've you you're as flat as you can be. I'm on the beach drinking a skinny margarita. I allowed myself one or two, yeah. And um, you know, we we just fight because that's what we need. So for me, when I hear the word, I feel like fight, I feel like we're gonna we're gonna win. I do worry sometimes because there's so much money involved in the treatment that do they want to get it cured completely? Because that's gonna put a lot of people out of business. I you know it's an interesting point. Well, it's just something that goes around in your head and you talk to other people. And uh the other thing that I haven't mentioned that I do actually, which I think is quite important, which Jane introduced to me about full mountain is is fasting, which I'm sure you probably know all about. Absolutely. So, what she said to me was imagine you're a line in the Serengeti. She said, and you've eaten an impali, you go to sleep under a tree. After 19 hours, your body starts sending messages saying you need to wake up and get some food or you become the food. And she said, For you, what it does is it weakens the cancer cells and they're sending messages around, and then when the medicine comes in, the liver is saying, Right, I need you, and the so it targets where the um uh chemotherapy goes to. So Bowel needs you in my particular case, liver lymph nodes, and so what I do is if my treatment is 10 o'clock on a Wednesday, you know, 12 or 1 o'clock, because now my treatment's about three and a half hours, it's not six and a half hours because everything got reduced, they took some things out. Now I'm what they call a maintenance phase, so right, keeping it where it is, and yeah, so I would let's say treatments at 10 o'clock, one o'clock in the afternoon the day before, I will start fasting. Liquids only, so I might have one or two peppermint tea, the rest is water. Uh, I can cheat with a coffee, but it wouldn't be with a milk, it would just be like a little double espresso. But I find if I get a headache, a little coffee, it's the coffee that my body misses. That's like my drug of choice these days, because it's the only thing that doesn't affect any, you know, that I don't do. So um, I load up in the morning, so I have a lot of protein in the morning, so I'll have a soup, you know, like a broth or a beef and barley soup, so something quite filling. I'll definitely have had a mackerel avocado uh type salad, maybe with some roasted veg. I'll probably have some veg with hummus, and I'll have had my Greek yogurt and sit and all that. So that would all come in those first few hours of the day. Yeah. Uh and then uh I also do it on the week that I don't have treatment, and I find that harder.

SPEAKER_00 58:04

Right.

SPEAKER_01 58:04

Um, but you know, I've always fasted at least once.

SPEAKER_00 58:07

Would you say cancers change your food habits completely?

SPEAKER_01 58:11

I thought I ate a really good diet, and I don't, I didn't. You know, now I eat a lot more fish, a lot more chicken. I don't I I don't cook it.

SPEAKER_00 58:18

Would you say it's a Mediterranean style diet?

SPEAKER_01 58:21

I would say there's certainly an yeah, I would say there's quite a lot of that. So I do have a lot of med veg. Uh, and if I were to have a takeaway, it would be like a lamb sheesh, so it's nice, the lamb's like nice and broken down, or I'm doing lamb shanks, or I do a beef shin casserole, which I cook for about four hours. The weird thing is, because I do I've always done all the cooking at home, is that nothing tastes the same to me. I haven't lost the my taste, but like for the first year, water tasted like it had acid in it, right? And I drink about three litres a day or four litres a day. You know, it's really important to flush everything through your body all the time, so I'm always drinking water. That I did anyway, but yeah, it's totally transformed what I think about food, how I understand it, how I need to vary what I'm having, and you get into this rhythm and then you start getting bored. So you need to look for other things. So I might buy one of James Cookbooks and then I might do like a uh you know salmon fillets, but like bake it on a bed of vegetables, uh, a little bit of olive oil, a little bit of I don't really have too much citrus because I don't think citrus is great for me. But I might add a little bit of lemon or something like that. And like I say, I don't really eat things like spaghetti bolognese or lasagna, right? I don't really I can't say that I completely abstain from pasta or rice or grains, like sometimes I have quinoa and stuff like that, but yeah, I just do it in moderation basically. So yeah, but I I didn't know about natural fibers, you know, just a pear, the five, you know, I didn't really think about, you know, and I I love pears, they're delicious, but prunes every day, you know, nature's uh, you know, meds, and yeah, it's I feel like it's a totally new sort of world that I was in. And I I was lucky because I've eaten at amazing places, I could eat what I wanted, but when I cook now, I find other people oh my god, this is delicious without blowing my own horn, because I when I do things I like to do them properly, and I'm thinking to myself, I know it should taste better than it does to me. I know it tastes better than it does to me, but my taste buds are just a little bit flat.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:34

So hopefully that will come out.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:37

What food do you enjoy eating most that you would say is healthy and that you previously might have not ate and now that you really enjoy?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:48

Well, uh as a treat, and this is quite a rare treat because it's it's something that the the body digests, is well, two things. So whiskey I never used to drink, I used to be vodka or beer. Not that I'm a big drinker anyway, to be fair, which is why thank god my liver's in such good shape, certainly not since my early twenties. So I have milk thistle. Right, yeah. So obviously that helps the liver. And when you speak to someone that used to play a lot of rugby, that's what they used to do before they went out on a big night out, is have some milk thistle. Um, so I do that and then I have might have a neat whiskey.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:23

Has that improved your liver markers?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:25

Uh or helped? I hasn't made it any worse. Okay. So my liver's like actually, my liver functions as like as good as it can be, thank God. Um I used to always have a ribeye steak because I like the fat and the flavours in the fat. And now if I treat myself, Jane was like, what do you want to treat yourself with? Because I wasn't allowed seafood at the beginning. Now I can have a bit of seafood, so I'll have a bit of prawns or what have you, but they have to be good quality, you know, and they have to be normally cooked by me. Um, but it's fillet steak. So I never used to eat fillet steak, I never used to get it. Like, where's the flavour? So now I have a fillet steak, I have to do it slightly over medium, which you know I wouldn't do from a sort of cooking point of view, with just a bit of black pepper and salt, and then I cut it into small pie I have to cut it into small pieces and chew it properly, and then you know, it goes to my body. So I would say that to me is the ultimate. What should we have? Alright, big treat, it's my birthday, I'm having a fillet steak.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:27

What advice would you give your younger self?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:31

Start going to the gym at a younger age. Um study harder, you know, to try and make your life a bit easier. Uh maybe it would maybe it would. I'm not complaining. I have a great life, I'm very lucky. House, car, wife, kids, fat, you know what I mean? Holidays, whatever. But I've had to work hard to do it. And I've only really got my mouth is my main weapon. And uh fortunately that that hasn't been uh affected. But yeah, I I would say eat a more rounded diet, eat a much better breakfast, because for many years I just didn't really eat breakfast. And as I've discovered, it's so important to have your metabolism working, so get it going first thing. So instead of eating at lunch and going getting far, I would have a lot less fast food in my life, and I would want and also this bear in mind it's a generational thing, because 20-30 years ago we didn't have the information that we have today. Yes. So it had I known now, what I know then it would have been look at what you're eating, read the packets, how much sugar is in that. I'd had a lot less sugar in my life. Um, because I feel that does a lot of damage, and uh just probably tried to vary my diet a little bit more, you know, just to give you a lot of people.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:56

Would you say food marketing focused more on fats previously uh and and that made fats look like the demon? And you would you say that sugar was made to be something that seems to be not as bad back back then, and and it's actually the reverse now.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:16

Yeah, I think that people weren't really talking about sugar. But what you realise is especially like this is something that I think about. When I was younger, if something had a best before date, chances are you could eat it a couple of days afterwards. Yeah. Now, and I feel this is because of probably treatments, chemicals, whatever they put in, and also they're running a business, which is right, this runs out on shelf life is really important, but the next day it's gone. I don't eat anything if it's if it's the next day.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:51

So that that's a massive clue. If the shelf life of the food is extended, it's likely there's been a lot of preservatives put in that particular food that's going in your body, and that's going in the type of.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:03

If you think you can pick up the Himalayan sea salt, the pink Himalayan sea salt that's been thousands of years and then goes off for March 2027. Do you know what I mean? Things like that. So yeah, I don't, I don't know. I don't those are the sort of things that I sort of think about that I definitely would have changed, and just making sure that I eat really good produce. Yeah, you know, I used to be able to eat anywhere, I could I could eat at the the diveest roadside cafe, and also I was lucky to eat at some of the swankiest restaurants, and there were three Michelin stars coming out your ears, you know, entertaining clients and stuff like that. But you know, going to football, eating a hot dog. Like now I think to myself, I that could be anything. No one actually really knows, I don't think, unless you really studied what's in a hot dog, what's in a hot dog?

SPEAKER_00 1:05:51

As someone who's stared mortality right in the eye, what does live more mean to you now?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:58

Live more means. Just making good memories, right? And living in the moment. So we bought OASIS tickets when I hadn't been diagnosed. So by the time I went to see it, I've been having six months of treatment. And lovely good tickets, because my wife was like, you get these tickets, we're going, it's iconic. And the last gig I went to, by the way, was Michael Jackson in about 1989. So just to just to give my edge, which was I think I went to that when I was like four or five years.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:31

Yeah, that was incredible. Wait at the rocket pack and left the stadium.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:35

I mean, yeah, that's iconic. Never forget that. This was my second concert I've ever been to at Wembley.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:40

And uh it was the dangerous tour, I think it was the back then.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:44

Uh actually, I was at the bad tour. Okay, yeah. So I maybe um I don't remember a jet pack, but what I remember is the stage presence. This tiny little guy was at Wembley, if I remember. Yeah, yeah. I think I think it was the old Wembley. Yeah, yeah. So Michael Jackson walked past my shop once when I was working. I was I was working on a Sunday. These these are the sort of things that have happened in my life that are quite fun. And uh I was in the shop on a Sunday, I'd been out all night, slept on my counter, gone to work the next day, listening to the radio in the London Pavilion, right? Where the rock circus is next to the Chocadero and Piccadilly Circus, and over the radio it came old Michael Jackson's just been spotted at Hamley's in Regent Street. All of a sudden I think to myself, oh, what's all that buzz going on outside my shop? I walk outside, and in the front of our shop, we because we did a bit of music stuff and various other commercial shop, and we had this robot in the window that had a camera in the eye, and uh like the screen was in the stomach. I walk out, I'm not joking, as close as you are to me now. Michael Jackson was standing there with 50 photographers, a hundred film crews, and 500 people just following him. Like people don't understand, I think, today how and he just starts doing all his robotic dancing in front of this robot, looking at himself in the mirror, gives me a fist bump and off he goes. I think that's iconic. Do you know what I'm saying? That's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:07

What experience?

SPEAKER_01 1:08:09

So, you know, life throws these things, you just say, Yeah, it was a moment, it was a it was a second, a split second, like that lives with you forever because Michael Joseph was the most famous man on the planet. Legend. So, what I wanted to say about the Oasis concert is we go there, I can't really hold a phone because of my fingers, but you know, when they come out, I've done a bit of videoing, and then I'm like, I want to be in the moment. So many people just stood there the whole time looking at it through their phone. So I try to I want to live in the moment, I want to make good memories, I want the kids to, and people that I know to think whatever happens to me in the future without being morbid is like this guy gave it a good crack. And I don't really want to be. I think there's an element that you're gonna be defined by this illness, and that's not what I really want. I'd much rather people were like, oh my god, Paul's one of the funniest people we've ever met, or that barbecue that Paul did was awesome, or you know, he's just so cruel to his dad at work. Do you know what I mean? And you know, he's just like he's he's cutting, he can just like cut you down with a fray, you know what I mean? Because I'm quite sharp, yep, and what have you. Since I gave up smoking, actually, I just feel like I'm so much clearer anyway. So I would definitely recommend to anybody that ain't what that ain't a path to go down. That just made my mind so much clearer. Like I remember so much stuff, and uh so yeah, I think that just to live in the moment, create good memories, and try and leave good um uh good thoughts behind that people will think of you and smile and not think of you and cry.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:47

So, yeah, cancer's incredibly personal to me because I lost my best friend to cancer at the age of 21 back in 2004. So, yeah, Tyrone um passed away from uh leukemia and actually ran the London Marathon in his memory, and it's one of the best things I ever did. Raised raised four and a half thousand pounds to the Institute of Cancer Research. And so approximately one in two people will receive a cancer diagnosis at some point during their lifetime. What does the future look like in terms of treatment?

SPEAKER_01 1:10:24

Well, what I will say is they're making breakthroughs all the time. So we said, I think my wife Emma asked the question of Dr. Sigtain and said, Why would you come into oncology? And actually, when you think about it, it's the cutting edge. So things are happening all the time. Whereas if you're doing an appendectomy, you're doing five a day every day, that's what you do, right? That's what it is. The science is there, they do it. So I do feel that I'm going to get cured, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:10:59

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:00

So my last scans, there was a slight development where you said, you know, I'm gonna look to do a surgery later on in this year in the primary, and that's actually where you want to be. And the reason they do that is if it ever gets to the point where the technology allows you to have that liver transplant where I've got it, then number one, because I'm signed up for clinical trials, you know, I'll be lucky enough to have the opportunity, and that's one of my blessings because of probably, you know, I wouldn't say I'm jumping to the head of the queue, it is what it is, but my illness is very aggressive. So naturally, like if I didn't get treated for a few weeks, it's all grown back. Do you know what I mean? Or a couple of months, and that's not being dramatic, that that that's just a fact. So for me, it's more the case of I know they're gonna get there, I know that they feel it's actually quite close, you know, but I don't really want to talk about that yet because I don't like to think too far in the future. I like to live in a like a two-week cycle or a three-month, you know. I just don't like to I don't like to think about things I can't control. So the point is to do everything that I can do to be here as long as possible. So science catches up, and then this I look back on as a blip in my life, absolutely, and a life experience as opposed to what defined me and what what happened to me.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:25

There's a great saying in life that 90% of life is how you react to it, 10% of it comes down to the significance of the actual event itself. So I think we can learn a lot from the way you've reacted to such bad news and your attitude towards that.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:40

My wife, and I'm not sure, I'm sure she didn't invent this, but you know, she always came up with this phrase which is life is normal until it's not, and then you just have to find a new normal, and that's what I try and do. So the new normal happens to be one week on, one week off, treatment, dealing, tired, fatigue, attitude. What I did tell my wife is the other thing the doctor said, which I think is the most important thing to take away for me, was I'll never be able to do housework again. Actually, I made that up. But at one point he called me a legend because of my results, and my wife was like, I wish you hadn't said that. She goes, I'm never gonna hear the end of it, so every now and again I just say to my wife, You're married to a legend. He said, Because your results are so good, like I'm in like the top 1% of how people react to my sort of movement in the world.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:31

Incredible. So you know, how lucky is that? How much do you think mindset matters in terms of that?

SPEAKER_01 1:13:42

I'm telling you, I I'm not a spiritual person, right? I never would think about anything like that previously, but now I know that it helps. So when I go to have my blood tests, I normally have them at 81 Harley Street. I've got these two amazing phlebotomists there, they're brilliant, and also the ones at 95 Harley Street are amazing as well, because I've had so many, you know, I know them all. And I normally go there at 8:30, so I'm like first appointment in the morning, and we're all come from different countries, different backgrounds, different religions. And what they would say to me is first of all, we love it when you come in because we always laugh and it sets us up for the day. And they say, in our religions, what we believe is the people that get through it are the people with that mindset of I'm fine, you you ain't getting me, I'm getting you, I'm winning this game, you're not winning this game. I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna come out on top, right? So, because of the neutrophils, what Jane said to me is she goes, You because I never want to miss a treatment. So she says to me, What you should do is wake your neutrophils up. So when you go there, jump up and down on the spot for a couple of you know 30 seconds. So I go in there, they've never seen this before. I go now, I've got like the catering girls walking past Sabrina, who I love. Uh Dean walks past, who's like one of the managers there, one of the receptionists is there, like this. They're all jumping up and down. So I'm like, right, come on, let's get the neutrophils going. God knows any other patient walking past is what are these lunatics doing? But you know, just a little to the guy like, come on, just do a little jogging on the spot and just getting everything. Maybe that's something else that came from Jay. Wake those neutrophils up, otherwise they're gonna fall asleep, and then you're not gonna get the great readings that you get, and they're gonna say, actually, it's not quite because you know, I don't want to be, it's not gonna make a difference to me if they push it back a week, it's gonna make a difference to my schedule because if we're organizing holiday or social life or what have you, you're working it around the treatments. Like, I never say to Dr. Sibbs, I'm doing this. I might say to him, look, we feel like we need a summer holiday. What sort of window? What should we do? I'm gonna have my root canal, they've got to reduce one of the medicines, I think it's a vast in over a six-week period because it will fight with the anesthetic that you have. So it's things like that that I need to be aware of. So I really I guess it's another thing is just trying to have clarity of thought of thinking things through. It I can't just make decisions now that like I used to, just be like, right, boom, I'll speak to Jane, I'll speak to the clinical nurse, or I'll speak to you know, and we'll really sort of right, let's plan it and make it work. Like I used to be much more spontaneous, so now I feel I'm much more organized, right? And uh I I mean I I feel sometimes I take the Mickey at work, I don't because you know, when I work, I work, and you know, luckily I can still do business. Every now and again, you've got to drop the C bomb to get a deal closed, and if I need to do that, I'm not I have no shame in doing that, but it connects you with the client in some way. You know, often I've got other clients I would never mention it to you because I don't want to tarnish a sale with the thoughts of oh my god, I don't want them leaving going, oh my god, I'm so sad, or buying something because they feel sorry for me. So normally I wait till I've shook hands, the money's come in, and next time I see them, you know, it might just crop up, but I try and you know, however, it works, it works.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:11

What do you wish doctors told patients more often?

SPEAKER_01 1:17:15

Sort your diet out, uh, don't Google stuff. Because you know, you're only gonna get the worst case scenarios, particularly with AI today. Well, right, in this day and age, there's there's so many things that it can help. Like I've always said the internet is a blessing and a curse. Right? And I think whatever business in, whatever walk of life, whatever you do, you can look at it either way. Wow, it really helps me do this. Uh it's a disaster for you know for that particular thing. So I do um that's something I sort of uh that's something I think about quite a lot. So yeah, just uh like everything as I've done and I've probably repeated far too many times, you know, just keeping that mindset and you know, them hopefully them saying, you know, do your mental research, look after yourself, don't hide away, don't shy away, don't tackle it head on, and fight.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:19

What has cancer given you that you never expected?

SPEAKER_01 1:18:23

Um I mean it's given me a uh a much calmer demeanour a much more I feel much more tolerant of other people. Um I thought after COVID, after being locked away, we'd all come out and be nicer to each other. I feel it's the opposite because people maybe got used to their own space and enjoyed that more. So I I think yeah, just to be more understanding, to listen more, you know, not to enjoy the sound of my own voice quite as much as I used to, because you know, especially when you say you get into a story, you start rambling, it leads to another. So Michael Jackson would normally lead to another story and another story, and I met Donald Trump, and do you do you know what I mean? And I think more to listen to people, and I think it's helped me sell. Because when you're selling, you really you want to learn from people, you're not there to teach them, although that that happens naturally, but you want to learn about them and who they are and what triggers them. So I'm constantly I find maybe like I feel less like a salesman and more like an amateur psychologist, so yeah, just trying to glean more information, but just you know, really to be calmer and to take things in my stride and realise that we're a lot more resilient that than we think we are.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:44

Absolutely. What do healthy people complain about now that seems completely insignificant to you?

SPEAKER_01 1:19:51

Everything because people just say to me, This is what people say, they say, it's not like yours, but and I say, look, everything's relative. So I find my wife's nephew, who you know, we all get on, but you know, we're not particularly close, you know. In his like late 30s, probably his 40s now, anyway. He um during one of the tube strikes, so we'd reach out to each other, you know, we we'd speak anyway, you know, which I love. And uh during one of the tube strikes, we drove into work, so me and my wife are both in town, and when we were driving back in traffic on the A41, see Lee. And uh just as he was pulling off to the North Circle, we would go straight over the flyover, give a little toot, and he sees us, sees Emma, just gives a nice smile and waves, sees me, gives a massive beaming smile and waves. And he actually messaged me later. He said, You know what? He said, I had a really rubbish day today. He said, I lost two deals, one of the kids was throwing up, had an argument with the white. He said, Then I saw you, and I thought, What am I worried about? Do you know what I mean? So it's things like it's things like that. So you know gives you perspective, yeah, exactly. So and I think for other people it puts it in perspective for them, that's their issue. Like, I'm always open to have the chat, and if people don't want to have the chat, they don't because some people just feel awkward about it, right? And you don't I don't want to make anyone feel away. I I never want to tell people what to do. You know, everybody has their own way in life and their own decision. So other people you can speak to people that are going through this illness differently than you can speak to anyone else, even your close family. And um without going into specifics, it's just you understand, you know, each other and you know, certain things that I just don't want to discuss with the wife and the family and friends and stuff like that, so we can talk about that stuff, and I think it's important not to keep things bottled up, but to to get it out there. And sometimes you pick up a little tit bit maybe about a diet or a vitamin, or you give a little titbit about far but the amount of people I speak to about it, they're fasting. Well, how does that help? And they're like, Well, it is the cancer doesn't cost anything. In fact, more than that, it saves you money. 100%.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:16

Um, so yeah, so yeah, autophagy is a big thing, so it's cell cleanup. The whole entire process of not eating is helping you so much from a cellular standpoint.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:26

Yeah, I totally believe that. Like, I'm I I happen to know someone who knows someone who was super wealthy, had the illness, and he was like, I'm just gonna fast for 30 days. And every time he passed out, he was lucky enough he had a butler, the butler would pick him up. I don't have a butler, so and I couldn't do it because I you know I need uh I need to have strength to be able to train, to be able to work, and for the treatment to work at its best. So I couldn't do that long day, I don't do 72 hours or what have you, 24 hours. But I know it has its benefits once you get to the 19 hours, you've had your benefit. I know that if you go further, it has other benefits. And some people I heard a doctor say who was interviewed, they said if you got diagnosed, what would you do with bowel cancer? And he said I'd fast for 30 days. That's the first thing I would do. So, whatever the body's feeding off. Because what they said to me at the beginning is what you don't want, if we don't get control of the tumours, they start to create their own blood supply, right? And then you're gone. There's no way back after that, because now they're a living they're their own self-entity, so you're done.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:30

Have you done those extended fasts? And are they safe given your I've never done them, so I've got no idea.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:37

I mean, I would feel I wouldn't be safe after I hadn't eaten for 72 hours. But I like I say, just to be able to live and walk the dog, and you know, like my favourite part of the day, I wake up, I go in the shower, I go and walk the dog. So I'm already starting to do it, so and that's before I turn my phone on and what have you. And if I couldn't do that, then you know, and I feel having a dog by the way, and I'm not a pet person at all, apart from my Dave, who I love completely, he's always by my side. They say that your pets can sometimes sort of sense the illness. So, like Dave chose us rather than we chose him, right? He just came and sat on my feet. I wasn't even interested in having a dog. Amazing, but you know what, and but honestly, that's helped me so much, you know. So to go out for those walks, so that doesn't matter if it's snowing, raining, a hundred degrees, you know, nothing stops me do that. So you know, getting your head around the things that you you need to do, and uh, I find that's all important.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:32

What's something people are chasing that you now realise doesn't matter at all?

SPEAKER_01 1:24:40

I think I've seen a lot of people get themselves into trouble through greed. Um you know, it's never enough, or trying to keep up with the the Joneses or something like that, and just thinking, okay, well, I've got Ferrari, but they've got a Ferrari in a yacht, or I'm in Miami, they're in Palm Beach, or you know, whatever it might be. And I've seen a lot of people sort of affected by that over the years because of my business. You know, I sell high-end goods, so you know, you naturally come across these sort of people. Um, and I think I was very lucky when I met Emma, so we've been together 26 years, married 22. I knew the moment I met her I was gonna spend the rest of my life with her. I I'm telling you, I I absolutely she didn't. She finished with me after about three months because she thought I was a bit of a plumb, which is fair enough, and I probably was at that time, although I said ultimately I was right because here we are, and I think that I think people still want to tick a lot of boxes, right? Get married, have kids, have a relate, you know, and not necessarily for the right reasons. And I don't for me, that's you know, always where I wanted to be. And out of my friend group, half of us got married and half of us didn't. Some of us got divorced, some of us didn't. I'm not saying that everyone should aspire to get married and have kids, and I'm not saying that whatsoever, or to follow a religion or not follow a religion, or you know, whatever it might be. I believe that everyone should have the right to do what they want to do, but I think a lot of people think, right, I should be doing this. I should like I said to my son's GCSEs at the moment, and you know, he might go into mass and engineering, we'll see how well he does. That's what he loves to do. He's bang into cars, that's always been his thing, and we tried to do the best and tutors and all, but I also said to him, you also love cooking, and when you do stuff, you're really dedicated. So maybe you want to look at doing a cookery course and start cooking and not come out with like 70 grand's worth of debt from university, and so on and so forth. So I think to tick boxes in life is not the way to live your life, yeah, and I think that's something that I've learned over time. I don't necessarily think that's connected to the cancer, I think that's just something I've learned from looking around, seeing how relationships have developed and how people have been very unhappy in marriages, yeah, and then they split up, and then all of a sudden, instead of two miserable people plus the kids, you've got four happy people plus happy kids, and that should be the way it should be. So everybody's different in one's, but I find that a lot of people are looking to to box tick, but I feel like the world is a much um there's more than one way to skin a cat, as they say, which I'm not advocating, but they uh but you know what, there's lots of different ways to get to where you want to be, and you don't have to go to university and uh social construct again. Yeah, exactly right, and just you know what I love is building relationships, and obviously people can keep in touch with each other. That also has a dark side that things can be misconstrued, and you know, I think my 13 year old daughter's much more on the internet, and something that we would have said, which is perfectly innocent, is now there forever and comes down under cyber bullying. Whereas when we were growing up, chances are it was just what kids did in the playground.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:57

So I also think that. Kids want to be their parents wanna be their kids' friends as opposed to their parents. And I'm not saying that we shouldn't want to get on and what have you, but I do think there needs to be boundaries. So I've seen many parents over the years really back the kids against the teachers, whereas I'm with the teachers to say, yeah, that's what we need to do and that's going to be better for them, you've got 100% support. But the kids also know if they're in the wrong, they take the punishment, and if they're not, they fight their corner. So I think you know, like I say, it's just a different world.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:43

That's a good point. If every healthy person watching this could learn one lesson from your experience, what would it be?

SPEAKER_01 1:28:53

Oh god. Um just to just to tackle life head on, appreciate what you've got, you know, because it can change very, very quickly. It does change very, very quickly. And uh everything that you thought was gonna be happening all of a sudden is very different to what is actually going to happen. And if you need to change your priorities, don't be ashamed to do so. Change your priorities, make it work for you and yours. And you know, whether that's being selfish in a particular area, like I feel like everyone in my house and my family eat better now. Yep, you know, it's just better ingredients in the house. The snack cupboard ain't the snack cupboard anymore. Do you know what I mean? It's the chart seed cupboard, and you know, or whatever. So, but at the same time, kids need you know treats and crits, you know what I mean? So I'm not saying that they should have stain and live that sort of life, but it's definitely it's definitely developed.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:50

How do you stay so positive when the reality is so difficult?

SPEAKER_01 1:29:55

I think I have times when I, you know, live in my you can retreat into your head a little bit and think about a worst-case scenario. So I try and limit those, and uh, I just try and talk to people, Jane in particular, I would say, from a business let's say that's a bit it's her business, not my business. I view her as you know a consultant and uh and a friend. I'm sure I hope she'd say the same. Um and then I've got other people that I talk to about the illness stuff that I don't really want to discuss with Emma, the kids, or my parents. So yeah, I just um I try when I have the thoughts that are slightly negative, I just try and process them quite quickly and get them out of my system, and then I feel that I just crack on with my day, and you know, and I think to myself, you know what, I've I've had so many amazing things happen to me in my life and how lucky I am. And I just sort of when I have moments, if I'm not sure I finished earlier, when when I was talking a little bit when I was there in February and I went back for my scans, and I said to Sibs, what are we looking for? He said, We're gonna try and keep it like this for another year, and I think subconsciously that made me react negatively. That oh god, another year of this every two weeks is kind of heavy on the body and the mind. And for the next few treatments, I didn't realise this until I talked it through with Jane. Uh I was getting more lethargic, more tired, and I was sort of saying, right, I'm gonna stay in bed today. And actually, after speaking to Jane, I was like, we were like, maybe that thought process of another year like this has made you that negative way. And I thought, you know what, you're right. I'm not just gonna lie in bed on the day that I get disconnected, I'm gonna get up and pick the kids up from school, and I'm gonna make dinner and go, and I do, and on the Saturday and Sunday, and and what have you, and that's totally reinvigorated me. So getting rid of those negative thoughts quite quickly, being able to process through them, and obviously now I've been doing it for like you know 16 months or whatever, you know, I've got much better at it, and then just focusing on today. How can I be the best me today?

SPEAKER_00 1:32:16

If the doctors told you today that you just had one year left to live, what would you do differently tomorrow?

SPEAKER_01 1:32:23

Um I don't think I'd do anything because I I want to keep being as normal as possible for as long as possible, and I want normal, whatever that means, and you know, I want to uh just continue to fight. So, you know, to say I want to go to Barbados for sick, you know, the sun ain't gonna do me any good, um, then I just think that I just wanna be just be true to myself, really, and just do the things that I want to do. You know, maybe talk a little bit more with the kids, get them off their phones a little bit more, and just say, look, in fact, maybe not even talk to them, but maybe write things down for them to read in the future to say, look, I'm not gonna be lucky enough to meet your life partner, but I trust you to, you know, I'm proud of you, I support whatever you do, I know you make good choices. I feel like our job as parents was to try and give you a lot of information to make good decisions, but life is ultimately about making your own decisions, your own mistakes, learning from them. So I think I might want to put some things down on pay, I want to finish my book, um, and you know, secure Ryan Gosling to play me in the movie, uh uh directed by Steven Spielberg, of course, and uh you know, just get things down for to help them hopefully one word in future life, and to explain to them that just because I'm not here doesn't mean you shouldn't think of what I might think, because I no one other than me and your mum want the best for you, so I think that would be the thing to put down on paper things for them to see in the future, maybe for big milestones in their life, so buying a property or graduating, or jobs, or marriage, or relationship, or whatever it might be. So I think I'd want to put some of that down on paper so that it's always there for them and we've always got that connection.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:18

Absolutely. What are you looking forward to? What are you excited about?

SPEAKER_01 1:34:22

I'm excited about medical science doing what it needs to do. I'm excited about hopefully getting to a point where I can, you know, if I can inspire one person that would have gone home after a similar diagnosis and you know, just been like defeatist, and that person is like, I'm fighting, then you know, that would be the most amazing gift that you could give back.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:49

Love that. Love that. If millions of people hear this conversation, what message would you want them to remember?

SPEAKER_01 1:34:56

Just to, you know, life is never as bad as you think it's gonna be, and bad news doesn't have to be something that defines you and that you can't get over, and you can't just believe everything that you hear, you have to go out there and find your own information and find your own path, which is different to everybody else's path. I remember saying to the kids, they may not remember this when they were young, you can't see one bit of news or read one article in a newspaper and say, right, I'm going with that. You need all the information, and then you need to form your own decisions. So I would say that is something that people could do, and also be nice if people are a bit kinder to each other, right? I know that sounds maybe a bit, you know, hippie or a bit this, that, and I'm not like that at all, that's not who I am. But I do think if people are a bit nice to each other, and we realise that we're all the same, you know, we're all made of the same material, we all, you know, mums in charge, we've all got our own particular bread from our race or religion, you know, we all like breaking bread together and getting together as families, and you know, I I love it. You know, there was just a bit more respect out for other people and people that are different to you, and you know, maybe be a little less selfish. Uh, this also goes to myself. I'm not just saying this is what but if you ask me the question, that's what I think about for the future.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:26

Absolutely. I think we've learnt a lot more about living more in this episode than having spoken to some doctors, biohackers, longevity experts. Living more is not necessarily just about living more in terms of the time left, but also with the time you have what you do with it. So quality of life. So I really thank you for your time today, Paul, for coming over here today. Um, is there anything else that you want to say in closing this out?

SPEAKER_01 1:37:00

No, I mean I'll just say thank you to you because you know, any opportunity even though I'm quite verbose, I'm not really someone that puts themselves out there, so I never really I never post anything on Facebook, but you know, I I use it more to to look at other people. But this I want to share with people and the people that know me that I don't really have contact with, just to be able to put it out and say, like some of you here will know this, and some of you here won't know this, but listen to this podcast because I think it'll give you a bit of an idea of me and you know, if I can help in some way, so yeah, just the opportunity to sort of put the message out a little bit, and like I say, maybe you know, if I get to the point where I can finish my book and uh sort of help get it out there to people and help them in the future, then you know I want to do that. So, yeah, thanks for an um an opportunity. I know you've had a mutual friend on who introduces Jack Collerin. So I just want to mention him, you know, he's just a fantastic guy, and obviously we come from a very different place, but we have a sort of automatic connection similar to thoughts. I'm just grateful to have uh an opportunity to to get out there, and like I say, hopefully we help people going forward.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:19

Where can people reach out to you if they want to?

SPEAKER_01 1:38:22

They can't just because I'm not really on so I mean I feel like I'm a different generation, so uh you've got my contact details. So if anyone makes contact with you, then uh you know, feel free to if they want to make contact with me, then you know give them my my number, my WhatsApp, what have you, and if I can help in any way, I'm always happy to do so. Uh if you don't mind. And then if it were to catch on and there are a lot of people, then yeah, I'll I'll I I do have an Instagram account just so I can keep along what my 13-year-old's doing. Although, of course, she's blocked me. And uh yeah, I'm not I'm not really out there quite so much, but yeah, if they want to reach out to me via you and you don't mind, then I'm happy to sort of get involved.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:07

Thanks a lot. Well, this has been incredibly insightful for me. If you found this valuable, please subscribe to the channel. I'd really appreciate that. And thank you for listening and watching. Thank you, Paul. Thanks, man.