The Evolution of Brownells Products Through the Gunsmith's Lens

Have you ever wondered why some gunsmithing tools become industry standards while others disappear? What does it take for a company known for supplying builders to begin designing and manufacturing its own firearms?

In this episode of Built to Last, Tim and Jude sit down again with Pete Brownell, Chairman and CEO of Brownells. Pete shares the story behind Brownells' product philosophy and explains how solving real shop problems has driven the company since the very beginning. From the earliest days of creating practical solutions for frustrated gunsmiths to the development of iconic products like the Magna-Tip screwdriver system, this conversation explores why purpose-built tools continue to earn the trust of professionals across the firearms industry.

Pete also discusses the products that rarely get the spotlight but make all the difference on the workbench. Learn how shop chemicals, cleaning products, and other behind the scenes essentials have evolved to solve problems that generations of gunsmiths once accepted as unavoidable. The conversation highlights the difference between consumer-grade and professional-grade tools, how customer feedback has shaped product development for decades, and the philosophies established by Bob and Frank Brownell that continue to guide the company today.

The discussion closes with the evolution of the Brownells BRN family of firearms. Pete explains why Brownells expanded beyond supplying parts and tools into building firearms, the original vision behind the BRN platform, and how decades of serving builders influenced every design decision. He also shares how customer feedback continues to shape the BRN family and why listening to shooters remains one of Brownells' greatest competitive advantages.

Whether you're a lifelong gunsmith, an enthusiast who appreciates quality tools, or someone curious about how great products are built, this episode offers a fascinating look at the philosophy, innovation, and customer-first mindset that have defined Brownells for generations.

This podcast is for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice. Please speak to a qualified firearm professional for any industry-related questions or decisions. The views and opinions expressed in this episode are solely those of the host and guests and do not reflect the official policy or position of any company. This content is intended for audiences 21 years or older. Viewer discretion is advised. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Welcome to another episode of Built a Last with Brownells. I'm your host Tim, alongside our co-host Jude, recording in the Ram Room at Brown Ells. Pete Brownell, chairman and CEO of Brown Ells, is back on our show. He's a third generation leader of one of the most influential companies in the firearms industry. Pete joined Brownells in 1997, helped lead the company's evolution from a gunsmith supply company into a global firearms industry brand, serving builders, gunsmiths, retailers, and enthusiasts around the world. Under Pete's leadership, Brown Elves expanded its branded product offerings, entered firearms manufacturing, launched the BRN family of firearms, and continued a company tradition of solving practical problems for gun owners and gunsmiths. Pete has also served as president of the National Rifle Association and remains one of the industry's strongest advocates for firearms education, craftsmanship, preserving America's gun-making heritage, and the Second Amendment lifestyle. Pete, welcome back to Built the Last.

SPEAKER_01 0:59

Damn, it's good to be here. Also, you too, Jude.

SPEAKER_00 1:04

So yeah, but with the last time you were on the show, uh, we had a lot of listeners that enjoyed your perspective and liked hearing kind of where we started with our roots. So I kind of like to start with that, with our conversation today. When people first think of brown owls today, many just see the retailer, the uh the website. When you think about brown owls, do you still see a gunsmithing company first?

SPEAKER_01 1:26

That's an interesting question. Uh back in 1939, the word gunsmithing meant something a little bit different than it does today. So are we still a company that services that person who fixes and repairs and accessorizes firearms? Absolutely. But that term gunsmith, back in 1939 or even earlier when my grandpa started, was all about anybody that was fixing firearms for themselves or their neighbors or the market that they served. So absolutely we're a gunsmith-focused company, but it's it's been a little bit differentiated right now. There's gunsmiths that just build firearms for themselves. We call them builders today, just to make sure we're not confusing the two different markets because there's two different reasons to be building and accessorizing your firearms. And then we have the professionals who are doing it for a profit for themselves. Absolutely, we are a gunsmith supply house, but that word gunsmith kind of meets you where you are on your journey of fixing and repairing. I'm I consider myself a gunsmith, not a good one. But uh, and I think a lot of people who take a firearm down to repair it or clean it, they're also a gunsmith that's working that journey. It's it's kind of like that. Nike is for athletes, and guess what? Everybody's an athlete. You're just may not be an Olympian. That's what our brand stands for when we talk about repair firearms and accessorizing things to make it yours. That's that's what we stand for.

SPEAKER_00 2:43

And a lot of our conversations that Jude and I have had with gunsmiths that have been on the show already, a lot of them talk about that Brownell's tool that was instrumental in helping them get their start in the gunsmith world, having those right tools and the support behind it is key. So are there any product categories that best represent Brownell's original vision then?

SPEAKER_01 3:05

Well, so my grandpa and my dad, they would they would create stuff. My grandpa uh came from a lot of different trades back in the 30s, 20s, and 30s. You learn how to have multiple businesses or multiple resources to help feed a family from being a lumberjack, we talked before, to being a gas station owner. Gunsmithing is what stuck, and that's what he was primarily known for for all his career, for all his life, actually. And the products that he really brought to the market came from those other segments that he that he worked in. So the auto industry, it's gonna be stuff like screwdriver sets that he that he brought into this marketplace, finishing that he brought into this marketplace. So he would take something that was another industry and brought it in. So we are known for our finishes. So that would be oxenant number seven. That'd be our cold blues. I am. We we were known for stabilizing wood from his woodworking days. That's known as acroglass.

SPEAKER_00 3:59

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 3:59

Uh the screwdriver sets from the mechanic side of the business. That's the magnetip screwdriver set is by far the standard that gunsmiths, no matter where you are on that journey, should have on their bench. A good gun vice, a good vice that was brought in from his woodworking and metalworking days. And that's another primary product. So those are the things that that when you're building your bench to do your personal work or your professional work, you got to have some basics. And those basics are really the ones that my dad and my grandfather built. So the bench is a Brownell bench, no matter where you are in your journey of gunsmithing.

SPEAKER_00 4:33

What did Bob Brownell understand about those gunsmiths that some companies or many companies still miss today in the modern age?

SPEAKER_01 4:40

Aaron Powell I'll give you a quote that my grandfather would say is show me a town without a gunsmith and I'll show you a town without guns. And today I'd also add, I'd show you a town that doesn't truly appreciate or understand the Second Amendment and its lifestyle that makes America free. The gunsmith is that frontline person that is the model for what a good, responsible gun owner should be. They build a culture around their community that is positive about firearm ownership and the responsibilities that it does have. They represent security and safety and awareness, and they're the major influencer for anybody who is looking to get into the either protection or the sport of firearms or into hunting, they're that point that represents that last mile, that strongest relationship with that firearm owner out there. So they're they're critical to the Second Amendment and the fact that by regulation, you have to have that gunsmith or that gun shop in order to make that last mile in today's world of regulations. So it's critical to supporting that Second Amendment. So it's not just where do I find firearms? It's where do we support the Constitution? And it is every gun shop out there in America is the one that is that front line and that last, that last mile of constitutional freedom.

SPEAKER_02 5:52

Trevor Burrus, Jr. That's really well said. And a lot of the gunsmiths and gun shop owners that I've talked to will say the same thing where it's like kind of like it or not, they are at the forefront of this Second Amendment conversation with everybody because they are, like you said, they're that last stop and they're that pinnacle of showing shooting sports in their community and showing how available things are. And then the gunsmithing side is a lot of customers will show up, first-time buyers of guns, and they're like, I want a gun, I don't know what's best for me. So they have to be that teacher, and then also they have to customize it too to their liking. So there's a there's a customer where it's like, I want this because it's cool and it looks like this, and then there's a person that's like, I want this to defend myself, to do whatever. What do I need? And then they have to be that person for both of them. So that's that's a really good point. That's that's uh so it's evolved a lot, but the statement's still true. It has, it really has.

SPEAKER_00 6:41

You're not just a machinist or somebody that can finish metal. Now you're an educator on top of that and really helping to guide people on that journey, especially if they're new shooters or new firearms owners on being responsible, what that looks like.

SPEAKER_01 6:55

Right. And we see uh in certain cities and certain towns where there isn't a that local representative or that gun shop or that gunsmith, and we see just how uh protection is lacking necessarily. Because that's those are places are usually under policed as well. So security becomes a main driver for people to find a gunsmith and that or a gun shop. And that gun shop is one that just has it's a lot of a lot of responsibility. There's some really good gunsmiths out there and gun shop owners out there that are picking up that mantle and and making their community just one step better. Really appreciate that about them.

SPEAKER_00 7:28

Let's move on to talking a little more about tools. So one of the best examples of the philosophy that you're talking about is the most famous screwdriver in the firearms industry. I know it's been brought up by uh Caleb Savant, wasn't he on um also with Control Chaos when we had him on as well, Matt Ostrander, uh the magnetip and how key that is. Uh why is it such a groundbreak breaking or what sets it apart from just, you know, your ace hardware or what other hardware store screwdriver you might have?

SPEAKER_01 8:02

I can give you a kind of a technical answer there. We say in our text hollow ground, which means that's differentiated from a regular one. You can go to the to the ACE hardware or wherever and buy a screwdriver. Regular screwdriver is basically a wedge. It starts fat and gets as skinny as the s the slot or the the hex needs to be. And what that does is it makes a very small point of contact with the edge of your screw slot or your Phillips head. And what happens when you start cranking on these things is you start to call it wallow out or or flare out your screw head. Now that looks like crap on your on your gun. Right. It doesn't matter how expensive that gun might be, it's it's your firearm when you have a bunch of screwed-up screws in it, it starts to wear on uh on its value and also starts to uh induce rust into the system because now you've scraped off the finish. Hollow ground, what that means is it it has a um a rounded version so the sides that go into the slot are parallel to the slot itself. So it's higher engagement, you're not gonna screw up your screw head, you're not gonna have the chance of it popping off the screw. And and I I see a lot of firearms that do this from that first-time gunsmith who's still learning their skill. There's a big scratch where that screwdriver just kind of goes right across the uh the either the the action or the the barrel, and there's a big scratch. Now we also sell cold blue to fill that scratch, but I'd rather not have a big scratch in any firearm out there by using the right tool. And that that's one of the big technical things. I mean it's grippier grip. Those are benefits. It's magnetic, so it kind of serves as that third hand as you're holding screws and or things together. It's magnetic, so you don't have to like hold the screw itself. It it finds its its path into the screw hole. So it's it's a pretty universal tool. It's good for everything that you're doing with metalwork. So it's a this is a universal tool. And and it came up with it back in the 40s.

SPEAKER_00 9:55

Okay. So before that, it was just you had that wedge cut, and that was the only option that you had, and hopefully you didn't slip off and ruin either your screw or the finish that you were working on.

SPEAKER_02 10:07

Yep. This seems like a small thing, but honestly, it's a game changer. Like people listening are like, these guys are talking about the heads of screwdriver bits, but it's a real game changer because the the hollow ground has so much extra point of contact, it fills a gap completely, so that if something were to break, it's not the screw, it's the screw bit. Good point, Jude. Thanks.

SPEAKER_00 10:27

Well, I know when Caleb was talking about working on some of the the old shotguns in Louisiana when he was working at that gun shop, uh, he was scared to death about slipping off a screw and just ruining that for the screen. Because he's working for commission.

SPEAKER_02 10:41

Yeah. And so any extra time is gonna dig into his bottom line. Same thing with Everett Gunsmith. And that if he's got to dedicate time to making a new screw on this screw that you maybe can't find, right? You know, that's another thing, too. Right.

SPEAKER_00 10:52

Yeah, you scrape the side. Yeah, you can you can cold blue it and you can get it back to it. It looks nice, but that's just more time.

SPEAKER_01 10:58

And it's well more time, but it also you then have to explain to your customer that, man, I totally boogered up your gun. And the customer's gonna say a couple of words and then they're gonna say, I want this for free. So just on all that work. So it's a it's a critical piece on a gunsmith's desk and bench, and it should be one on yours as well.

SPEAKER_00 11:18

What uh or which brownell's tools have changed the most over time, would you say?

SPEAKER_01 11:23

I'd say the finishes. We started off with this bubbling witch brew called called hot blueing or oxidant number seven, and that's the only way you could get a protective cover on your on your firearm all the way up until about nineteen fifty, when the epoxy sprays or the products that you could put into a rattle can could start to become high quality finishes. Um kind of in between all that was a cold blue. So you had you went from hot caustic to now I've got an etching that I could cold blue a firearm with and get it a near a similar finish. Those are small batch, those are fix-up sc uh kind of the scratches we just talked about. That the reason we do it, because a lot of people scratch their guns, uh either coming in and out of the scabbard or pushing down a fence or something along those lines out in the field. We've all done that. And and then when the military really started getting into the the the jungle areas, they came up with parkarizing. Parkerizing can be a hot uh process which requires a special setup, but then now there is almost these epoxy-like paints, and we've got a couple of them ourselves that will will mimic that that toughness and that feel, and those are the products that have changed the most for brown owls. So alumahyde's a great product. It's it's thick, it's resistant. You can cover up any kind of scratches pretty easily. It's malleable to the point where you're in the sense that you can sand it off a little bit. If you get a rough button, you can buff it back up. It's a pretty it's a pretty good product out there. Specifically designed for the temperatures from desert to mountaintop and what can be uh kind of exceeded if you're in a scabbard somewhere riding horseback into the mountains. So it's a pretty good product. Yeah, it's what's finished.

SPEAKER_02 13:11

Yeah, that's a that's definitely a I that's not what I expect you to say, but it's a it's actually a really good answer to that question because it's changed so much. And I think one of the things leading the most recent stuff is customization. Right. So you look at gun coat and you look at aluma hyde and there's all these different colors, and it's pretty fun to see what people can come up with that stuff. But different camo patterns, different personalizations, people doing like guns out of the movies and things like that. Oh yeah. It's good. And it's bulletproof finish on top of that. Yeah. So custom and bulletproof. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:37

So yeah, so finishes, man. It's like you like you're saying, Jude, any pattern you want, your creativity can go and go crazy. There's also uh you can spray on grip now. So it used to be add to stipple and and do all kinds of engraving. Now you can do a spray on grip and it's and they're pretty good.

SPEAKER_00 13:53

It sounds like the accessibility has been a huge factor. So now you don't need a big old bubbling tank full of chemicals that have to be, you know, stored properly and heated up and bluing is awesome.

SPEAKER_02 14:04

Caustic blueing is awesome and it's beautiful. It's tough for the average dude to get into that though. Because you you need a lot of stuff to get it get it done, you know. So this it's a lot more accessible now.

SPEAKER_00 14:14

I had uh one of the gun techs do a cold blueing on a Mose and the Gantt that needs some site work done, and it was amazing to see how much that matched the original finish. And it was just like uh a brush on applicate application of it. And I can't imagine having to dip it in a whole tank for a certain amount of time just to get it to match up right.

SPEAKER_02 14:35

Yeah, it's a big setup.

SPEAKER_01 14:36

Yeah, so we've got Lumahyde 2, baking lacquer, Teflon Molly, of course, guncoat, there's a great product as well. Yeah, yeah. A lot of good ones out there that uh just look for the epoxy and and loop. Lubricity is a big thing as well. Some of them are are thin, uh not necessarily resistant, but you put those near the slide where things were gonna improve the friction or at least reduce the friction, reimprove the function. And there's things on the outside you want to have almost protective coat on. So good stuff out there right now.

SPEAKER_00 15:05

Yeah, and I know Caleb did a video on uh aluminide painting rifle too. So it's uh if you're thinking about it, uh I I know our range supervisor has been on me to paint my rifle, uh, because it's just a standard black rifle. And he's like, Yeah, you leave that out in the sun for an afternoon, and then you go pick that up, and how much are you gonna want to hold it? You should paint it. And the longest time, I'm like, I don't have the setup to paint. And watching some of Caleb's videos on yeah, there's some there's some setup that you need to do, there's some procedures that you need to follow, but it's completely accessible by just the garage mechanic, I guess. I kind of would label myself as. Um, you don't need uh anything crazy for a setup.

SPEAKER_01 15:41

When we when we developed those those products, it was what can you bake in an oven? Yeah. The baking lacquer was an oven. Then we had to put a message in don't bake this in the oven you put food into. Not necessarily because of the fumes, what have you, but whoever is also cooking in that oven is going to be really upset at you. So your wife.

SPEAKER_02 16:02

Yeah, yeah. She'll put its big sticker on it and be like, don't do this because of your wife. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:07

Yeah. I've uh made the the mistake of boiling parts in a pot and then afterwards going, oh, well, yeah, we can never cook food in that again. Yeah. It looks like you're bought a new pot. So we talked about what's changed the most. What's changed the least just because they were right from the get the get-go or the beginning?

SPEAKER_02 16:26

I'd say magnets changed at all since their inception.

SPEAKER_01 16:30

No, they haven't. Magnetips have been pretty solid.

SPEAKER_02 16:33

We've added some like Torx bits and the standard bits, you know, to fill needs as they came out. But like the slotted, the hologround slotted screwdrivers, they haven't changed at all.

SPEAKER_01 16:43

Right. Right. Okay. That's one that's that's one that's been pretty solid for a lot of years. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:47

If it works, if it works, don't fix it, kind of thing.

SPEAKER_01 16:49

And yeah, just add to it and add to the function. But I think there's one even that's been around longer, hasn't changed, and that's the a good gun vice. Yeah. Okay. So a vice, uh that's another have to have it on your on your gun bench. It's uh it's a thing that provides that stability. And man, there's a lot of people that bring vices out now, but you've got to have a solid vice, one that you can crank on. Not every gun you want to hold like a like a feather, like some of the vices out now. We can actually take many of the imported vices and crush them on our own vice. So it's it just comes down to do you how much you're gonna put that again, regardless of how expensive that that firearm is, if you drop a $100 gun, it just hurts just as much as a $600 gun or a thousand dollar gun. So gun vice is critical because you and the and the fixtures that go on the vice. Maybe that's where some of the innovation has happened. Sure, yeah. How do you hold your AR? How do you do on we used to have action wrenches, but we still do have action wrenches where you're you're taking the barrel off uh Mousan de Gant or a Grand or any other ones that are just they were tight from the military, and you really got to put what they call a cheater bar, which is about a six-foot um pipe that you put on the end of that action wrench and you almost bounce on it to break open that action. You can't do that with the cheap import.

SPEAKER_00 18:04

Right. You can attempt it, but it's gonna something's gonna snap and it's it's gonna give and it's not gonna be what you were hoping it is. That's right.

SPEAKER_01 18:10

You'll be buying a lot of cold blue from us when you do that. So get a good vice. That is a critical thing that'll last you, and it lasts a lifetime. These things are solid. So that's another mainstay for the gun bench. And that vice hadn't changed in oh man, probably 600 years. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:26

Well, who's gonna be the guy that wants to reinvent the vice? He's gonna be right behind reinvent the wheel.

SPEAKER_00 18:31

Right. And it's crazy because it doesn't really matter what your setup is in your shop or in your area. You can mount a vice like clamp on, you can do the direct bolt on. They have that hydraulic lift one as well, so you can adjust the height on it.

SPEAKER_02 18:44

I love I love our clamp on adapter for our vice. It's fantastic. Because when we're working in the studio or wherever, we just move it from table to table, and it's uh, you know, it's a rock solid vice. Awesome.

SPEAKER_01 18:55

I'm gonna I'm gonna go on the the tool that is the least underappreciated.

SPEAKER_00 18:59

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 19:00

Would be the file.

SPEAKER_00 19:01

Oh. Yeah. So under the most underappreciated tool.

SPEAKER_01 19:05

What looks simple but takes years to get right.

SPEAKER_00 19:08

Just your simple metal file?

SPEAKER_01 19:10

Your simple metal file. Just try to just try to file a square or a cube in metal, and it'll take you a long time to get it perfect. The ones that are really good at doing this, they've they've done, they've spent years doing it. And they'll take three or four strokes, look at a little bit, and then do four or five more, and that's a good solid, flat piece of metal. It takes a gunsmith who's who's on his career, his or her career growing in that skill set years to perfect that. Just filing is very difficult. So that's the most I think that's the most difficult tool out there. It's not the lathe, it's not the drill press, it's not the thing that you think is gonna take a lot of technology. All the fan gizmos. Yeah. It's the hand tools. It's the file that's the underappreciated skill set.

SPEAKER_02 19:58

Yeah, the and the experts make it look so easy. Like I just uh I was watching this video like a month ago with Ted Yost, 1911 guy. He's a great so he's doing hand checkering on a 1911 grip, and when he's doing it, he just takes a file, puts it right on the front strap of the grip, and just starts going to town. Like that's it. And I was showing that to Tony, and Tony's like, yeah, that's uh these make it look way too easy. You couldn't do that. Like, there's no way. Go ahead, just try it. So I did, and they he was right. Like the discipline of it is crazy. So that's a that's a that's a good one to bring up for sure.

SPEAKER_00 20:30

Filing is one of those things that scares the heck out of me because it's really easy to take material off. It's really hard to put material back on when you take too much off.

SPEAKER_02 20:41

Just assume you can't.

SPEAKER_01 20:42

Yeah, man. Anybody that's done a couple of years of filing knows how to weld really quick, too. We've all had to put metal back on. Yeah. You know, we're talking we're kind of talking about uh it feels like 101 to us, but it truly is. These are the standards you have for for every space that you're working in, be it a firearm, gunbench. My grandpa had a quote on the quality of of parts and quality of tools, which is our mainstay. And he's lived by it for I I'll bet you all his life, but definitely since a founding philosophy of Brown Ells. And it's a guy named John Roskin who basically says you get what you pay for, but here's what he was saying back when he was a an economist. And it's he basically says uh it's unwise to pay too much, but it is worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money. That's that's all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything because a thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. So if you think you're going cheap in this throwaway economy that we're in, you're basically buying tools over and over again. That's why Brown Ells had a forever guarantee on its on its products. We want you to invest in it, because you're investing in your skills and a life of of gunsmithing or second amendment lifestyle. But those tools need to live through your whole life of use. And we have a forever guarantee on those parts. And so that's come from John Ruskin.

SPEAKER_02 22:13

And that's good. That's like you said, like gunsmithing is a journey because, like you said, with the gunsmith versus builder, and that's a hot topic and everything. But somebody starts somewhere, and it's like at the beginning of the your journey, would you rather buy a vice that's gonna be there at the end of it too? Right. You know, because whether you stick with AR-15s, you need a vice. Or if you keep going, you're still gonna need a vice. And it's the same vice across the disciplines. So makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 22:37

Yeah. Working on cars, like I go to Harbor Freight a lot, and I didn't go there because their tools are like super high quality. I go there because the tools are cheap, because I know I'm gonna break them, and then I'll just rebuy it. But if I would have just taken all the money of buying that same breaker bar five times over and just bought it once and a high quality one, but but don't do this.

SPEAKER_02 22:58

Don't don't say like get into gunsmithing and starting to get pretty confident and being like, hey dad, can I do something for you? And they take one of dad's old guns and you put it in the vice, and that's the day you break it. And like, don't do that to yourself. Experience their kids. It sounds like you've been there before, huh?

SPEAKER_00 23:13

I have no idea what you're talking about. We talked about uh tools, stuff that looks simple and really can pay dividends down the road. Uh let's talk a little bit about what a lot of people don't talk about or what they kind of skip over is solvents, lubricants, and finishes. So, what's some of the most important products that Brownell sells? Um, some of those don't even get displayed in a gun safe. How we've talked about how those shop chemicals have evolved over the years. Um, but what products never get talked about but matter the most or more than people realize? More more lubricants or chemicals? Like cleaning stuff. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:54

Okay. So, you know, there's um there's always these witches brew we find online, and Google is is great at telling people to use WD 40. It's it's good, but not for guns, period. Or they'll use uh uh like a hydraulic cleaning product, or let's get a water displacing from the auto industry. For the beginner, that's not a good idea because what you do is you're you're getting rid of all of the things that protect your firearm from rust when you use a product like that. Or you're uh you're infusing some impurities into your finishes. So if you use WD-40, it's gonna start to gum up on you under heat. Your gun goes from room temperature to hot and dusty, and the introduction of carbon and the gases from shooting a bullet down the barrel destroy the qualities of WD-40 are known for. Same thing with um any kind of any anything from the auto industry I would be suspect of bringing into the firearms industry. But such a different unless it's like an engine specific uh lubricant, they don't quite work here in this space. So either rub off or they'll burn off, or when you get carbon fouling, it just cakes on there and you gotta go, holy smokes. Can't get a chisel down that barrel to clean out that stuff that just burnt on. So the chemicals are pretty important to be gun specific. And there's some classics out there that are uh that we have to help develop. Um and there's some really good classics in the industry. So there's some things that we have Action Lube and Action Lube Plus, that's a grease, those are things for where your slide like a semi-automatic, that's where you put on your slide. It's not gonna burn off, and if it's if it starts to have different kind of metalgy, it's not gonna gall up on you. There's some copper solvents in there that that some are ammonia-based. You gotta be careful if you're even an ammonia-based solvent because if you don't clean it out afterwards, you start to get uh some other buildup in carbon that are tough. So uh there's gosh, on oils or on on cleaners, uh, Hoppies is great. Hoppy's great. CLP is pretty damn good. Uh you get the people that make those are basically the same. Uh Hoppies is a unique uh brand, but the CLP is basically the same. Uh we have some some different things out there that are used for different types of use. Action Magic 2 is another good one that keeps things uh lubricated. Um also heat resistant. There's some rust preventative stuff you want to do while you maintain your farm as it's in storage. Rust preventative two in our case. There's some other ones out there. Just look for things that are either petroleum-based or preventative rust or synthetic based if if you're looking at uh some high friction areas. And that's that's kind of the you've we've taken what works in the auto industry and moved it into the wide variety of environments that a pistol or a rifle would go through in the firearms industry.

SPEAKER_00 26:47

So eventually Brownells move from just supporting these firearm builders and the gunsmiths, and they started building guns themselves. So I'd like to kind of pivot into that story. Um, talking about at what point did Brownells decide it was time to build firearms instead of just supplying parts and and tools.

SPEAKER_01 27:08

Wow. Uh that'd be with um that'd be with the BRN launch. This was something that came after we had owned AR-15 for a while. This listened to all the customers saying, Hey, I want a retro. This retro market is something that's really interesting. And we couldn't find a supplier to go out there and make a good retro rifle that was reasonably priced. So we listened to everybody on AR-15, and they helped us source a lot of the drawings, a lot of the engineering, a lot of the factories, frankly, that would be able to get a retro AR-15 or an M2 or M16 equivalent to the civilian marketplace. That came out of feedback from AR-15.com. Came also came down to they started to help us make connections with the people that could actually produce those items and bring it to market. That was our first go at making a farm as a retro. I did not know that. Yeah. That's pretty crazy.

SPEAKER_00 28:01

Well, the retro crowd is pretty detail-oriented as well. So like it needs to be exact, or it's like a cheap knockoff, and you will get just and which is good feedback.

SPEAKER_01 28:14

So we we came out the first one we came out with, the plastic wasn't right on the on the furniture because it wasn't crappy enough. It was too good. It was too good a plastic. It was modern plastic, not the stuff that came out when people were entering into uh Vietnam. So that's that's the retroversion we came out with, and it's it's been a really a mainstay since we came out with that.

SPEAKER_02 28:35

Yeah. Gun industry certainly hasn't dropped the idea by any stretch of the imagination because it's a huge thing. I think they call them cloners. You know, the guys that are cloning like an actual military firearm from a time period or a gun from a movie, like the Blood Diamond Car 15 is massive. It I think it's still massive right now, but that's basically it's an A2 shorty retro upper with a specific optic and a specific flashlight, and everybody wants one. So it's it's uh definitely, definitely huge. And a lot of guys that love AR-15s, they just want to own an M16 in each generation, you know, like they want to have the full collection of the entire evolution of the M16, right?

SPEAKER_01 29:12

So it's been pretty cool that we were able to fill that. Yes, we talk about M16 equivalents or or cloners. But as as movies have started to become and and video games started to become very popular, that demographic is moving into ownership ages right now. So that 30 to 45 year old who grew up playing the f uh first person shooters are now saying they they know the they know all the accessories, they know what each one of them does to improve shooting or accuracy or stability, and they're building out and personalizing their firearms now. That's where Brownhouse shines is making sure you can personalize that firearm. So we got into guns because of the the retro aspect of bringing something to market, listening to feedback on AR-15 and all the other threads out there, and that's where a lot of the accessories come out now. We've we've stopped making complete guns. It was a big hassle, so really appreciate you manufacturers out there who go through that and and produce good firearms for us. We're the we do a lot of uppers, uh, we do a lot of slide tops and things like that to accessorize your core firearm.

SPEAKER_00 30:19

So you can still do a a retro build and come to Brownells and get a lot of the parts and pieces to start your journey. Yep. Absolutely. What was the original vision, I guess, behind the BRN family or and what common philosophy kind of ties all of those together?

SPEAKER_01 30:34

BRN Line is really an extension of that retro model. It's all going to be based on something you can attach to or build or customize on top of your AR platform. Under on your AR lower is something that you buy and register, but then you have the variability both in caliber that fits on top of an AR-15 lower, and uh we have an AR-10 version, or there was one, we're looking to bring it back based on the customer feedback that we're getting. But it's all an AR-based brand. So BRN is Brownells. You haven't put that together yet. And it's an AR-15 alternative, the most versatile firearm for personalization and customization out there.

SPEAKER_00 31:14

Yeah, I personally I have a uh a BRN in 762 and then uh 556, and it all just goes on to the same lower. It's you just got to make sure you run the right mags and right.

SPEAKER_01 31:25

I'll I'll tell you one thing. There's a lower is such a highly standardized uh firearm. I'd I'd look for one of the uh cheaper lowers out there, the more price point lowers for you, because your performance comes at the upper. So and that's where we want to specialize to bring either more accurate shooting, more realistic customization, something along those lines that fit who you are. That lower is a critical piece, and and we definitely sell a lot of them, but you can modernize a lot of the and customize a lot of the current uh lowers that you have purchased out there.

SPEAKER_00 31:58

How has uh customer feedback shaped the evolution of the BRN family specifically?

SPEAKER_01 32:04

You know, something about feedback. I say any feedback is important, even if it's like somebody uh giving you a ration of of comments because they care enough. They care enough to say you can do better. And so we listen a lot about here's what this segment's looking for, here's what's wrong with a certain model or make. Doesn't have to be ours, but everybody's so feedback is incredibly important. And I appreciate everybody who's giving us feedback, both good and bad. Um we we want to make sure we're giving the market what they're what they really want and value, and that helps guide where our development is right now. So we've got a couple of BRNs that are really coming out. So there's a won't get into naming yet because we're about ready to launch this. So it's it's a good collaboration, and there's a it's a new BRN that's coming out. Uh we have a a retro, of course, which is rocking and rolling, and the of course the BRN 180 is in stock and going to be in stock, and somebody's full career is based on making sure it stays in stock. So that was one of the big critiques we had. So it is definitely in stock. We got good partnerships in that as well, and and just quality, quality stuff being put in.

SPEAKER_02 33:12

Yeah, speaking of customer feedback, I mean we are very well known for the BRM 180 line, and uh everybody it it kind of it was phased out for the for what's known as the Gen 3, and the Gen 3 is like the culmination of all the customer feedback, right? But then people were like, where's the Gen 2? Because that had more callbacks to the retro side of the AR 18 or the AR-180. And so the direction moving forward would be we're gonna keep the BRM 180 because people love it, and there's actually quite a bit of aftermarket support for that. Like there's that SA 85 uh kit this guy made. Nice. And then we're also gonna take all the customer feedback from the 180, from the the do's and don'ts, and all the things that work great, and all the things that didn't work, all the things we've seen ourselves through testing and come out with this new version that is its own thing, and that's where the naming is coming from, where we don't really know what we're gonna call it yet. It's kind of it's we have some options. Hush, hush. It's hush-hush. And but uh that's gonna be that's gonna be really sweet. This year? Yeah, for sure this year. Definitely this fall.

SPEAKER_01 34:10

This year. So there's so much interest in some of these uppers that we have factories who want to collaborate with us on what the BRN line is. So you'll start to see as we evolve into a more consistent supply and and capabilities, you'll see the BRN on a couple of other factories around the world and and how we're providing good quality uppers uh for countries and departments and and competitors.

SPEAKER_00 34:37

I love it. That's exciting. I was a big fan of the the BRN 180 when I first started working here, and then seeing the improvements, like all of the things that I didn't like about that uh version were addressed in the later version. And I it just gets exciting to hear how you're taking that feedback to improve it and be like, okay, they didn't like this or this is an issue. We're gonna try and address it with this piece and uh to keep moving forward is the the best way to make a great firearm.

SPEAKER_01 35:05

So customer feedback is an important thing. We've been we've had a tech line for grandpa started it back in the 70s, 60s or 70s. That's our first line of feedback collection is our our online text. Now everybody doesn't know about this. Here's what we have. We have uh a whole room full of gunsmiths that'll help you get a project from I don't know what to get to here's what you need, here's how you do it. Call us anytime under 800 line uh during working hours, because we can't have these guys 24-7. We do have a tech line that can get you started, or I'm sorry, a text and or feedback line that'll get you started. But the gunsmiths that we have here are quality guys that they they hear what you're saying, they make recommendations on what products to carry in general that a gunsmith or anybody on their how-to journey will find useful. They're important on on the fact of what do we market, how do we how do we go to market, what are customers listening to, and they're they're definitely there to help each individual get their project done.

SPEAKER_00 36:02

Yeah, and like you said, they're they have the experience. They have been or are current machinists, current gunsmiths, or they've done years uh with in that gunsmith world. Uh so they have a wealth of knowledge that you don't really see in a lot of other firearm companies. You can't just call up and be like, oh, I have a question and have like a very specific and you need like all the the uh stats on you know a certain part or certain firearm.

SPEAKER_01 36:29

Right. They're a wealth of knowledge, only one in the industry. So we have a lot of people calling us.

SPEAKER_02 36:33

The gun techs are a fantastic resource for you as a customer, and they're also a great resource for us too, because for you as a customer, just like like you've said in the previous podcast, we're your back office. So if you're if you're a gunsmith, if you're a gun owner and you want to take a project and you're not quite sure how to do it, no problem. Just give us a call and we'll help you. I love that line. And then on the other side of that is the fact that these guys are keeping a pulse on the industry. Yeah, and they're keeping a pulse on the customer feedback. And so, as a resource for us, incredibly important for us too. So we're we're listening to them, which is listening to you. And uh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:06

So one final question here as we wrap up. When future builders in gunsmiths look back on this era of brown owls, what do you hope that they say we got right?

SPEAKER_01 37:16

Oh, that's a good question. Um, I hope they say that we help that young mom and pop entrepreneur be successful in their community. It's not just can you fill my purchase order or my order? Is that can you make me a successful person in my in my community? And that's what really started us off. We were a small business way back when we've been lucky enough to help a lot of gunsmiths and a lot of small shops become big shops, a lot of small brands become major brands. And that's the thing that I'm most proud of as an organization is is helping our people in the supply chain, including the gun shop and the gun builder, just be successful. So it's a service mindset. And that's what I hope that uh we get we uh continue to be known for, and that's the legacy.

SPEAKER_00 38:01

It's like the quote that I hear you say quite often is a rising tide raises all ships. So if we can help the industry as a whole be better and stronger, that's just it's good for everybody.

SPEAKER_01 38:11

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 38:12

All right. So the last time you were on, you had talked about some of the different social media uh that you were trying out and Facebook, you were having your son help you out with Facebook. We had a comment by Jay on Spotify, and he said, Mr. Brownell, come over to Twitter or X. There's a great two-A community on there. So if you want to try out X uh or Twitter, yep, go on over. It sounds like you already got some friends there already.

SPEAKER_01 38:35

Yep, excellent. Yep, keep the comments coming back.

SPEAKER_00 38:39

All right. Uh any last words of wisdom or comments that you'd like to share with our listeners?

SPEAKER_01 38:45

Lean into your gunsmithing no matter where you are in your journey. It's uh very rewarding to build your first and or maybe your 50th firearm and get out there and enjoy the Second Amendment community that's all around you.

SPEAKER_00 38:58

Pete, thanks for bringing your experience perspective to the Ram room today. If you enjoyed today's episode, share Built to Last with someone who appreciates the craftsmanship, problem solving, and history behind the tools and firearms that shaped our industry. As always, ready aim, fire your comments or questions to built to last at brown elves.com and rate and comment wherever you stream this podcast from. Remember, if it's worth building, ensure it's built to last.