The Law Firm Growth Professor Podcast
Welcome to The Law Firm Growth Professor Podcast!I’m John Rizvi, The Law Firm Growth Professor®.My journey began with just a laptop, a cellphone, and a spare bedroom. Client meetings? They happened at Starbucks and McDonald’s. Today, my firm, The Patent Professor®, generates over $10 million in annual revenue, operates from a 10,000-square-foot headquarters, and is powered by a team of 60+ professionals.What I’ve learned along the way is this: scaling a successful law firm is never an accident. Law is a profession, but it’s also a business - one that demands a clear strategy and a game plan for sustainable growth.On this podcast, I’ll share the proven strategies that transformed my law firm, covering digital and offline marketing, referral relationships, intake and sales, and law firm operations. I also sit down with successful lawyers and industry experts to uncover their best-kept secrets for building and scaling a thriving firm.If you’re ready to take your law firm to the next level, you’re in the right place.Let’s get to work.
The Law Firm Growth Professor Podcast
Ep. 42 - The Hidden Pitfalls in SEO Contracts Attorneys Must Avoid
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In this episode of The Law Firm Growth Professor podcast, I tackle a topic most attorneys overlook when hiring SEO agencies: the contract.
A bad contract can lock you into long-term agreements with no escape clause, vague KPIs, and unfair kill fees—leaving you frustrated and payingfor results that never materialize.
📲Get The Support Your Law Firm Needs:https://www.thelawfirmgrowthprofessor.com/
I break down what a good SEO contract should include: clear KPIs, ethical business practices, a fair scope of work, and balanced exit clauses. I also share why boilerplate agreements from SEO firms often fail to protect your interests and how to spot red flags like unreasonable turnaround times, hidden fees, and ambiguous language.
If you’ve ever signed an SEO contract without reading the fine print—or if you’re considering hiring an SEO agency—this episode is a must-listen. I’ll give you practical steps to safeguard your firm and ensure your marketing investment delivers real value.
Want to learn more about how our agency can help your law firm grow? Speak with John Rizvi ☎️
Hi and welcome. I'm John Risby, the Law Firm Growth Professor. For my new listeners, I'm pleased you came to join me today. And for my returning listeners, it's always great to have you. In this podcast, I share the strategies for growth that have worked for me in growing my law firm from a startup with just me, a laptop, and a cell phone operating out of a spare bedroom to where we are today, a team of 60 professionals generating over$10 million a year in revenues from our 10,000 square foot headquarters in Coral Springs. When was the last time you stopped and read the reviews and comments about your firm online? Chances are it's probably been a while. If ever, usually people only address comments when there's a problem. But a lot of law firms spend thousands of dollars on their SEO and marketing, and then they forget about online reputation management or ORM. Now this is a problem because if you're spending all of that money, but the reviews that you're getting online aren't great, you've got a reputational crisis on your hands. And the longer you ignore it, the worse it's going to get. There are statistics suggesting that it takes anywhere from five to ten great reviews, I mean five stars, just to negate one bad review. So if you're getting one and two star ratings and you're not getting out in front of it, you have a problem. A lot of people don't want to read the reviews because they hew to the old internet wisdom to never ever read the comments. And okay, on Facebook, that's fair. You know, nobody wants to see people dunking on Granny's Thanksgiving stuffing recipe. But as a business owner, you need to be in touch with that sort of thing because your law firm is going to survive or fail on a great part based upon the reviews that you get. And you start that with great service. You start with great client service, great communication, doing the literal basics of your job, do the job and do it well, and do it in a way that makes your clients happy and satisfied with the outcome. And then you go from there. But you need to be aware that if you're you're not always going to make everyone happy, and it's a fool's errand to try. However, that doesn't mean you don't have an obligation to keep up with your reviews. If you're getting consistently great reviews, then you probably don't have much to worry about. But it's still worth taking 10 minutes out of your day every week or so and taking a look at what people are saying about you online, and not just on your website, on social media, Facebook, Instagram, any channel that you're on. You need to be monitoring that. Now a lot of people say, well, shouldn't my SEO agency handle that? Well, yes, usually they do, but not always. Sometimes that's an optional additional service, which if you haven't baked that into the contract, it's probably not going to get done. Also, passing it off to your SEO agency is fine, but it also distances you from what your clients are saying about you. Sometimes you need to be proactive, sometimes you need to be reactive. Uh, if you get a one-star review that's completely unfair or completely out of left field, or not even a client of yours, then you need to report it to Google. And you need to say, This is not true, this is not my client, whatever's accurate. Uh you need to defend yourself online. Now, of course, you need to be professional. Uh, there are too many horror stories out there of people going uh completely going off and throwing F bombs and saying you're stupid and you don't understand and blah blah blah. That's not the way to handle a negative review. But if you can say, I'm sorry that the results uh that you got were not up to the standard that you hoped for. However, I welcome the opportunity to discuss this matter with you. Uh now a lot of people go, oh god, that's just one more thing to add to my day. Why do I want to spend 10 minutes out of my life watching people that are ripping me online? Um, it's not that you want to spend the time that way, it's that you need to spend that time so that you demonstrate that you are hands-on with your online reputation and that you're paying attention to what people say about you, uh, good or bad. So if someone says, hey, I appreciate everything you did for me during my case, it's perfectly fine to say that's wonderful, we're happy to hear that. We always strive to give the best possible service and deliver the best possible results for our clients. That's just basic good customer service, no matter what field you're in. And as lawyers, we need to be extra sensitive to that. So, yes, it may seem like a waste of time, or you know, 10 minutes out of your life that you could be spending doing literally anything else, but you need to think about that. You also need to understand what the reporting mechanisms are for the various websites when a post or review or a comment is completely unfair, completely inaccurate, perhaps not even a client of yours, uh, or completely untrue. So the more you challenge negative reviews, the easier it will become for you until it just becomes another habit that you bake into your work week. And yes, it sounds kind of like a pain in the butt, and it is, but once you've acquired this habit and you've done it a few times, you see that it's not generally so bad. Of course, you can always fight back against negative comments by putting the record straight, but you have to be very, very careful here because you don't want to violate client confidentiality. So it's harder as an attorney to counter negative reviews and violating client confidentiality even if it wasn't against attorney client privilege and confidentiality is not a good look, regardless. For example, if someone says my attorney said he'd get me blah blah and blah, and I only walked away with a check for this amount, that's their right, provided it wasn't a sealed settlement. Um, they are allowed to state exact numbers, but that's not something that you can do. It's up to them to put uh whether they decide to put their business out on the street for everyone to see. Uh but if you respond with uh confidential attorney client information, that is put you in hot water with your state bar association. It's unethical. But you can say something generally. I did advise you when you're going to court uh that the results are not guaranteed and it's impossible to uh predict uh the amount of a settlement uh or a verdict, and you were offered an opportunity to appeal. So, for example, you can say that um and that's a fair, reasonable, and balanced reply that still provides your side of the story but doesn't reveal confidential information. Now, if the clients just gruntled and they're not happy with what they got, they wanted more, and they felt like they deserved more, uh, and we all know with the law, deserve also has nothing to do with it. It's what the law allows, and sometimes it's what a jury or judge will permit. And that's not all tied to the lawyer and his advocacy. So we have to play within the rules, and we have to constrain our clients to make sure that they play within the rules while we're trying to get them the best possible outcome. So you don't want to name dates, you don't want to name exact numbers, or discuss anything that they could turn around and file a bar complaint alleging that you revealed attorney client confidentiality. But even without doing that, there's ways to fight back. Another way to manage your online reputation positively and proactively is to make sure that you're seen out in the community, helping the community. If you do a lot of community service work, if you donate, for example, softball gear for the local elementary school, that's great. Make sure it's known. Now, some people get weird about this because uh in the Bible, for example, it says, give so that your left hand knows not what your right hand is doing. Um, and that may be good advice, but these days when everything is so commoditized and everything is so public-facing online, there's no harm in saying, hey, I did this thing, I sponsored this children's event, or I was the marshal in this parade, or whatever event that you're thinking of. That's not a problem, and that can help uh your image uh quite a bit, especially if you're just getting started. Now, a lot of people, like I said, they don't want to do that, they feel like it's it's gross or improper, unprofessional. The fact is, the internet has changed the rules to some degree. Things that would have been considered uh crass 40 years ago are now commonplace business practices, and we have to be aware of that. We have to consider that everything we do is likely to show up on the internet, both good and bad. So you might as well control the narrative yourself. So if we have a bad day and our client doesn't get the results they want, then yeah, they this could come back to bite us, they could post a negative review. Uh, but you can offset some of this right from the start uh by showing the causes that you care about and showing what your interests are and uh where you volunteer your time, for example, in your off hours. Uh, show what you're passionate about. And it's always good to show that you would do the same thing and use the same passion that you do on their case when you show how you are as a human being with a human heart and a human brain behind the stack of law books and the suit stereotype that us lawyers have cultivated to some degree over the years. So the first thing you want to do is take 10 minutes, look through all of your social media, see what people are saying about you. If the buzz is overwhelmingly positive, great. If the buzz is pretty neutral when you whittle it all down, that's a different problem. And you need to figure out how to reach your client base and let them know that you're paying attention, but not in a way that has you looking defensive. Now, of course, if someone's flat out telling lies or flagrantly misrepresenting what really happened, you have some more options. Again, you have to be careful about how you exercise those options so you don't run afoul of your state bar's rules and regulations concerning client communications and confidentiality. Again, if they want to put business in uh online about them, reveal personal information about them, that's on them, but it has nothing to do with you. You can absolutely reply to incorrect information and set the record straight, but you need to do it in a way that doesn't reveal client confidentiality. And if there's no way to do that, then you can even state that in your reply. But it's important to get a reply in so that uh viewers can see that you're monitoring and you pay attention to your reputation. Now, if this is a place where I would strongly suggest that you talk to your digital marketing agency because they deal with this type of stuff all the time. It's part of what they do. Also consider it's human nature to react emotionally when you feel unfairly attacked. We all know that, and we all know that attorneys have emotions and feelings, even though we have to suppress them to some degree in court and in front of our clients, but we also need to do this when responding to online uh reviews. Uh, we have to be as dispassionate as possible so that our emotions and our passions and our frustrations uh remain ours and they don't sabotage our ability uh to respond. So take 10 minutes, go through and see how everything's looking. If you have 500 five-star reviews and ten one-star reviews, I wouldn't worry too much about the one-star reviews. But if it's more like you've got a hundred five-star reviews and a hundred four-star reviews, a hundred three-star reviews, a hundred two-star reviews, and a hundred one-star reviews, now you have something that you really need to get in front of because something will doesn't sound right. And of course, if you're upside down, if you have more one-star reviews than anything else, you really need to do a deep dive into what happened. Uh, and make sure, one, that it's not just people trying to sabotage your firm. Because yes, there are people who would do that. Review bombing is an unfortunate fact of modern life, especially online. One person feels aggrieved and they complain that their jerk attorney didn't do this or that or the other thing, and the next thing you know, everybody in their family, everyone in their social circle, uh, and in fact, anyone they that they nodded their head to uh in the hallway in high school is suddenly flooding your page with one-star reviews. And most of these people you've never heard of. So if they don't recognize someone as a client, that's an appropriate response online. Uh, and you can also flag that review, and Google can further investigate and hopefully take it down if they aren't client of yours. So familiarize yourself with the mechanisms in place through the various social media sites and through Google and make sure that you're reporting false or incorrect uh or misleading uh reviews. Now I get that this can be a frustrating topic for a lot of people. A lot of people say, you know, I farmed this out to my uh digital marketing agency or my office manager or whatever so that I don't have to deal with this. But you cannot afford to be an ostrich in this situation and have your head in the sand. You need to be aware of what's being said about your firm online so that you can effectively counter it. And you counter it with your actions, you counter it with the way you comport yourself online and in public while you're out and about and while you're living your life. That's really just being an ethical lawyer, and that's literally hitting the minimum standards for our profession. To be fair, it's understandable that a lot of people don't want to engage with online reviews. We see enough negativity in the news, we see it all around us right now, uh, especially now, um, and so a lot of people feel like, well, why would I want to get out and roll in the mud and make my day even worse to absolutely no benefit? Or there is a benefit, um, and that benefit is that what people are saying about your firm, uh, whether it's negative or positive, you do want to respond to that. And another thing to consider that reviews are a tool for you to consider to help improve your rankings. So if you have a hundred one-star reviews and 95 of them say the exact same thing, they also can be a way to improve your firm. And especially if it's all different people and you can verify that there's they're legitimate clients, then you have to take a long hard look at how you're managing your practice and how you're doing your job. And this is an opportunity for you to grow. So, yes, it's going to sting a bit, but it's better to sit with that discomfort for a little while and say, okay, 95 out of 100 people said this about me and my law firm. Maybe I need to take another look at how I'm doing this, you know, whatever the this might be. Of course, most of our clients are not terribly sophisticated in the law, and they're not supposed to be. That's not their job. That's our job, which is entirely fair and reasonable. So they expect us to know better. But of course, with that lack of sophistication and that lack of knowledge about the law, we run into situations sometimes where the clients think that something means one thing, and it actually means something entirely different. And the result is that they're disappointed and upset, and it's not fair, and it's not right, and it's not a failing on our part. Now, on the other hand, if you're getting all great reviews and all of those reviews are saying the same thing, like they were really responsive, they have really quick turnaround, or they really took care of me, uh, or they really made me feel like my case was important and like it mattered, uh, and like it wasn't a waste of time. Great. Then you know you're doing something right. Isn't 10 minutes a week worth it to get some of those pats on the back and see what you're doing uh well that's actually making a difference? Lord knows there's been times when I almost gave up because I felt like I couldn't make anybody happy. And then I'd turn around and I'd read the online reviews and I'd go, hey, you know what? Maybe we're not doing as bad as we think we are. Uh so consider that as well. So if you're not monitoring your online reputation management or your ORM, you're missing out on huge opportunities to improve and grow and to make sure that what people are saying about you online is true, fair, and accurate, and correctly reflects the events in question. For that reason alone, it's worth to invest a little time and a little energy in your online reputation. Now, I don't recommend that you outsource this completely to your digital marketing firm. This is something you need to do for yourself because those reviews aren't for your SEO firm, they're for you. You need to know what they're saying so that you know how to course correct and make your firm stronger and more resilient in the process. So before I close this out today, my question to you is when was the last time you went through and read the reviews of your law firm or your practice? What did they say? Did they point up any places where you could do better? Or is it just sour grapes? If it's just sour grapes, that's fine. There's no problem there, but you need to know one way or the other. So that way you can do the best job possible for your clients and for yourself. Again, I'm John Risby, the law firm growth professor. Before you leave today, I'd appreciate it if you could click the like button and make sure you subscribe so you don't miss any updates from this channel. Also, don't forget to share with any of your friends or colleagues that are attorneys. Thank you so much for stopping by today and be sure to tune in next week, I'll be explaining how and why you should be auditing your SEO personally and why it matters for your law firm. I look forward to seeing you next week. Thank you.