How God Prepares You For Suffering Before It Begins

What happens when the person you love is the one who is suffering—and you're the one holding everything together?

In this powerful follow-up to Episode 20, Troy and Amy sit down with Dalin Kennard, wife of Sean Kennard, to hear the story from the caregiver's perspective.

While Sean shared what it was like to suffer physically, Dalin shares what it looks like to walk beside someone you love through pain, uncertainty, and unanswered questions. She opens up about how God prepared her heart long before this season began, learning to surrender what she couldn't control, raising children through hardship, and discovering a deeper relationship with Jesus in the middle of life's hardest moments.

Whether you're caring for a spouse, walking through suffering yourself, or wondering how God can use painful seasons, this conversation offers biblical encouragement, practical wisdom, and lasting hope.

No matter what you're facing today, you're not alone. God is present, faithful, and still working—even in the middle of the chaos.

If this episode encouraged you, be sure to subscribe, leave a review, and share it with someone who needs hope today.

What’s in this episode

• How God prepares us before suffering arrives
• Learning to surrender when you can't fix the problem
• Finding strength as a caregiver and spouse
• Walking through chronic illness with biblical hope
• Parenting children through uncertainty and fear
• Building a marriage that reflects Christ during hardship
• Honest conversations with God during difficult seasons
• Why biblical community matters in suffering
• Understanding anticipatory grief through the lens of faith
• Discovering Jesus more deeply through life's hardest moments

Key Scriptures

“fixing our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith. For the joy set before him he endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.” Hebrews 12:2

“For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.” Matthew 11:30

“Maybe you were made queen for just such a time as this.” Esther 4:14

“Consider it pure joy, my brothers and sisters, whenever you face trials of many kinds, because you know that the testing of your faith produces perseverance. Let perseverance finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything.” James 1:2-4

“God is our refuge and strength,  an ever-present help in trouble.” Psalm 46:1

Reflection Questions

1. Looking back, can you see ways God was preparing you for seasons you didn't yet understand?
2. Is there an area of your life where you're trying to control something that only God can carry?
3. What does biblical surrender actually look like in your current circumstances?
4. Who has God placed in your life to help carry your burdens?
5. Are you honest with God about your fears, disappointments, and questions?
6. How are you helping your children—or those you influence—develop a biblical view of suffering and hope?
7. What has this season taught you about the character of Jesus that you couldn't have learned any other way?
8. Is God inviting you to become stronger in Him rather than stronger in yourself?
9. If someone watched your life through your current hardship, what would they learn about Jesus?Key Takeaway

Key Takeaway

God rarely wastes suffering. Long before we face life's hardest seasons, He is preparing our hearts, strengthening our faith, and teaching us to depend on Him. While we cannot always choose our circumstances, we can choose to trust the One who walks with us through them. The same God who prepares us is also faithful to sustain us.

Quote from the episode

"God doesn't just meet us in suffering—He often prepares us for it long before it arrives."

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"Real People. Real Struggles. Real Grace."

Music by AlexGrohl from Pixabay

Transcript

Welcome And Why This Is Part Two

SPEAKER_00 0:07

Welcome to Kingdom Chaos, a podcast for anyone trying to live a purpose and faith-filled life in a loud and messy world. Jesus said his kingdom and nothing this world, yet here we are navigating real life and real struggles. I'm not a guru, just someone learning that God's grace meets us even in the chaos. This is Kingdom Chaos where faith meets real life and purpose is still found in the mess. Hey everybody, welcome back to Kingdom Chaos. My name is Troy, and I have uh two guests today, and I'm super excited about this particular episode. Uh my wife Amy is with me, so hey Amy, how are you doing?

SPEAKER_03 0:47

Hey everyone.

SPEAKER_00 0:48

All right, and so uh and then we have uh Dalen with us today. Uh so welcome, Dana. So happy that you're here to tour us.

SPEAKER_01 0:56

So happy to be here. Thank you all for having me.

SPEAKER_00 0:57

It's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 0:58

Yeah, it's great.

SPEAKER_00 0:59

Uh so if you don't know, uh we're not going to talk about everything that we talked about in episode 20. Uh, I definitely, if you haven't listened to that one, you need to stop this one because you there's going to be a lot of gaps in the conversation. You're not going to understand what's going on. This is definitely part two. So go and listen to episode 20 first and hear what Sean has to say. Sean is Dalen's husband. And so we want to hear from your perspective on what's going on in y'all's life and y'all's story and what God is writing through you guys right

Who Dalen Was Before Crisis

SPEAKER_00 1:29

now. And so before we get started, though, I want to hear uh from you and who you were three years from now, or three years ago, or five years ago, before everything that we're about to discuss, who was Dalen back then? What was your life like?

SPEAKER_01 1:44

Yeah, um, you know, it's funny you'd ask that because uh Sean's mentioned this before, that he would say that that I feel like the Lord has prepared me for this season. And like, and and and I do, I I feel that. I feel that he has uh uniquely prepared me in this season to where I could feel that that in the midst of sitting next to somebody that is lacking so much, that I could actually be here and feel like I I'm lacking very little, like I'm lacking nothing. Like I feel that. And so um five years ago, that wouldn't have to mean though, like I didn't wait for this season to have a partnership with the Lord. And so I wasn't waiting for this season here to be like I need a partnership with the Lord. Like I'm in this season in a deep partnership. So if I were to look back five years ago, or even uh at the at probably at the point of adoption of our daughter, that is probably the turning point of needing a much deeper partnership with the Lord.

SPEAKER_02 2:40

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 2:41

Like there'd be, I would not say seasons of suffering, there'd be moments of suffering, moments of lacking, and moments of of feeling like a little bit like, hey, no one's coming for you as a mom, as a working mom, as a trying to figure it out, trying to homeschool a teenager, then I'm also trying to figure out how to be her mom. And and so, like, there was uh there's really hard moments in there where it's just me and the Lord. Like, hey, me telling him, like, hey, my burden is not easy, my yoke is not light.

SPEAKER_03 3:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:12

Like, and me just saying that. And me not even hearing him back saying, like, well, my burden is easy, my yoke is light, take it upon you. Me literally just being like, Hey, my yoke is not easy, my burden is not light.

SPEAKER_00 3:25

So when you say that, do you mean like what what did it did it feel silent in those times? Like you're is just a one-way conversation, or did you feel his presence, hear his voice?

SPEAKER_01 3:35

Uh in those moments, uh, and then even after that, of like her moving out and then having another child and and figuring out that was that was my only my second biological child to have. So I you're you go back through healing from having a child. You go back through, I went back through working as a as a mom with a little baby. And so, like all these little moments of even saying that, like that phrase lasted m many, many years. And I would say that the Lord constantly met me where I was. But I just feel like I felt welcomed to come to him with those things. Like I felt, I felt like a welcomed father, like of like, hey, you're you're welcome to tell me that. Yeah, like tell me, tell me where you're struggling. It was like he didn't, like I didn't need, I didn't need the Lord as a coach. I didn't need him to coach me in, like, you know what you do with that. Like he just be like, tell me about it. Like, tell me, tell me your yoke isn't easy, tell me your burden isn't light.

SPEAKER_03 4:31

So he just then invited you to be honest with him.

SPEAKER_01 4:34

Yeah, I felt him at the kitchen sink, me being that washing the dishes and being like, man, like, like, man, my my this is hard. Or crying while you're washing your face because nobody's looking. I'm I'm not, I'm it's hard for me to be emotionally supported by others. I didn't grow up that way. So I default two moments of um being kind of kind of in those moments in that in that wrestle and um by myself, but feeling the Lord there in those moments, not to say I don't have people to support me, but in those really, really deep moments, the Lord's being like, hey, I've got you. Like you're invited to tell me that.

SPEAKER_00 5:16

So I didn't intend for the conversation to go this way, but Yeah, sorry. No, no, no, you're good. My so let's say five years ago, but we met you as a worship leader. So you've been you've had a relationship with the Lord for for a quite a while, right? So five years ago, there was a was there a change and deepening in your relationship from previous so explain Or when did you adopt your daughter?

SPEAKER_01 5:37

How far back?

Adoption And Seeing God As Father

SPEAKER_01 5:39

So I was 30 when we adopted her, and or I guess almost 30. Yeah, I was thirty, I turned 30 uh because Talon was two and a half at the time. And I would say that's when really a drastic change in my faith because I got to see kind of a visual representation of our walk with God through my daughter. As in, I got to see how this, how the Lord pursues and he chooses us really at every stage of our life, every stage of our life, he is ready for that partnership with us and he is he is pursuing us, and he is even blessing us in moments where we are not pursuing him, we are running from him and partaking in blessing, and then you know, like all these things. And I was like, man, I saw a reflection of my story in actual somebody with skin on him that I was learning about. And I was like, that is I drastically changed how I saw God as our father, God is our pursuer, and how how I saw myself. And so that is when I think I started to feel invited by him because I also wanted her to feel invited to come to me. And so I started to feel like, man, there's somebody who like I've been in, I've been adopted into this family. I've been adopted by by the Lord as his child. And he wants to invite me into conversation and relationship with him and being like, hey, this is all of me. And that's exactly what I'm asking this girl who has not known me for 17 years of her life. That's what I'm asking her to do and hoping she does it.

SPEAKER_03 7:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:18

And so me being like, me kind of being like, man, I hope she does it. Like I'm ready, like I'm so ready. And and and just being like, I I I want her to I want her to love me as her mom and I want to be there and be present for her. And so that's when I've got to feel the Lord doing that for me in those moments.

SPEAKER_00 7:38

Yeah, so this kind of started the preparation to where you're at kind of now with your relationship. But I think that's so important because I think people come to a point in their lives where they lose a child or they some some kind of a like real deep difficult situation and they hadn't prepared for it. They think they have, they think they have a relationship with God, and and maybe in some level they do, um, but then it really gets tested in in some moments like that. And I think a preparation of I I need to make sure I do have a quiet time, and quiet time meaning I really need to engage with God and really pray and read his word and allow him to start to change me in and invite and be there and present with him as well as him meet you where you're at. So I think that's so important. That's so good.

SPEAKER_03 8:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:26

Um, got a question for you here.

Problem Solving Versus Surrender

SPEAKER_00 8:28

Uh, as far as I I believe you're a problem solver. Would you say you're a problem solver?

SPEAKER_01 8:32

Yeah, I'm uh I I'm so I'm not futuristic. That's y'all shouldn't, I'm not Sean's very futuristic. Like looking five, 10 years down the road. I'm not. I'm curious about the future, but I'm very in the grit of the day. I'm like, what does the day look like? What does the day need of me? And that's really I will give all of that for then. So if it is something problem solving for the day, yes, like I I'm gonna exhaust all efforts. I'm not a um, I'm not a fixer.

SPEAKER_03 9:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:01

So I wouldn't say I'm like, I but I yeah, I would yeah, I would say I would want to solve like for Sean's health. Right.

SPEAKER_00 9:07

And that's solve that problem. Like, you know, so it looking like that, I mean, uh even at any even day-to-day, not being able to solve that, being able to go to God in prayer for sure, but there's nothing you can really do at the moment to do anything. How do you balance that? How do you work with that within yourself?

SPEAKER_01 9:27

Yeah, I I had to process a lot with like when Sean, like I would say the first six months of him being sick, I had to again come to the Lord and just like these uns like kind of these unspoken struggles. Like I've been struggling with them for a long time, I felt like of like these thought processes that that needed to be worked out in this. And so uh my brother died when he was three. So

Early Loss And Feeling Responsible

SPEAKER_01 9:54

learning the unfairness of early death was something I learned very early on. I was 17 at the time. So I learned, I even found like a old paper I'd written talking about like hey the being a 17-year-old and saying, hey, we you know, you can live out these certain rule sets, you can be a good person, and but but there is just unfairness in this world where people just die early, and that's something that we just have to approach. Like we can't look away from that. And so, like having to learn that early on was that's been greatly impactful. Openly with you, I felt very accountable for my brother's death in some ways. So my brother was immune-compromised whenever he died. I was sick before he died. Um, and so I felt uh somewhat blamed, but also even responsible. Like maybe I am responsible. Like maybe something, maybe I maybe I did. Right. Maybe he did get sick as his final moment of life and um because of me. And so I say that to say, I think in the first six months, I felt like I was trying to repair the fact that I felt somewhat responsible for my brother's like rapid decline at the end. So therefore I felt responsible for making sure Sean turned around. And so I felt like like I'm like I'm I'm made a binder. Like I'm making a binder of every aftervisit summary, like I'm exhausting all efforts financially. Like I'm I'm I'm not just treating him as uh like my husband who I need to solve, like he's my husband's sick. I'm treating him as like, hey, this is this is my somebody's child, this is somebody's brother, this is my kid's father, and he's a husband. Like I'm I'm considering like every layer of relationship that he holds and um feeling like I'm also accountable for his life and accountable that he makes it. And so I think I was trying to somewhat repair um that that I, you know, somewhat somewhat kind of take control, maybe.

SPEAKER_00 12:02

Right. So so in in that, have you been able to surrender since then? Oh yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 12:07

That's for sure. I mean, and you know, I in I always say like we we hold many things, right? So there's a thousand sides to my story, a thousand sides to there's not just like that's just one little perspective I'm holding. I'm also one of those people that holds a perspective of like, hey, we all live, we all die.

SPEAKER_03 12:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:23

Like, hey, we all live, we all die. You know, and people text me, like, can you believe Chuck Norris died? I'm like, I'm pretty sure we all die.

SPEAKER_03 12:29

Yep. Yeah, I can't.

SPEAKER_01 12:30

I can actually super believable to me. Uh, makes sense, you know. So I think is I think we kind of work out somewhat a language of death in in our in our society. I think we kind of work that out. Uh, we don't talk about it much. And so I'm a little bit like a little bit of like a data girl. And the data says, we all live, we all die. Right. You know, so I, you know, I I hold these things that are deeply emotional and I hold things that are deeply data based. And um, but really just coming to the Lord and just like being and surrendering that. And again, knowing that the Lord, the Lord is an artist, right? He artistically works for good everything in our life, uh, af like as they happen, after they happen. And the my brother's suffering and even his death has been such a reminder in this time. And he has worked that for good in this time. Like that has been that the presence of that good, even though it's been almost 20 years ago, is so deeply layered in me that I feel the Lord's closeness in that where it there's such a sense of gratitude of like, I I'm not in this having to learn my theology of suffering. Right. Like I've that's been worked out in me. Yeah, you've got it. I'm standing on firm ground here. I've gotta, I know we suffer. I know we, I know there's suffering. I know there are miracles, I know all these things. I'm not like I'm that's why I'm like, okay, Lord, like I I can stand firm in you in this time. Yeah, no big deal.

SPEAKER_00 14:05

Yeah, you know? So in and that though, uh obviously they've had to been ups and downs throughout the year, right? So tell me one of the the down moments, your conversations with God, one of the times within this past 12 months where it's like uh in this, maybe, maybe you had surrendered already, maybe you hadn't, maybe you're trying to control things, but what are your conversations with God when it's like you're at your lowest at the moment and maybe drained emotionally from work and everything, just the whole, just overwhelming.

The Hard Year Warning And Provision

SPEAKER_01 14:34

So I'll I'll I'll tell you, Sean's story of suffering actually starts before he got sick with me at a mailbox. Like the Lord, and this is like I I genuinely feel the Lord's closeness and like his love for me that that he will meet me where I am. Like he'll meet me where I am. But but quite literally in April of 2025, I walk to the mailbox like I do every day to get the mail. I'm like an old person, I kind of wait for the mail. I'm like, I can't wait for that mail to come, you know. Uh now the mailman brings the mail to our door, and I'm kind of like, man, like it's so nice, but I like walking to the mailbox, you know. Um, but I walked to the mailbox, opened the mailbox, and in there there was a check, an unexpected check. Not a big amount, like I I didn't have a a prince in another country, like all the scam emails say, and you know, um, wasn't a big check, but unexpected. And when I opened it, simultaneously at the same time, I heard the Lord say, It's gonna be a hard year. Like right as I pull that check out, it's like it's gonna be a hard year at the same time. And I actually felt, I mean, usually if you get extra money, you don't feel sad, but I actually felt a sense of sadness of like, oh man. Like that felt so true in me. And um kind of left it at that, didn't say anything about it. Three weeks later, Sean got sick. Oh wow. Three weeks later, that's when Sean got sick and basically got sick to where that's when he never recovered. Yeah. In July, uh, a couple months later. Again, I'm working this out. Sean's been sick for a couple months. He's already lost the ability to work full time. He has a fight coming up, and I I just need like a refreshment from the Lord. Like I need a refreshment. Like the moment is the moment is chaotic and tense in the house, and I need a refreshment. I open the door and it is a beautiful sky. And the Lord says, I make beautiful things. And I just echo, like, you make beautiful things. And so now he's spoken to me twice, like audibly spoken to me twice in the midst of this. And then just one month later, we're sitting in a luncheon for church on generosity, which probably sounds like a terrible time for a lot of people. Um, it was actually a beautiful, like I loved it. And it wasn't like generosity with money, like people were it was stories, people giving like an organ. It was just like living a life of generosity, which is really important to me. And I actually grieved, like, will we not, will I, will I not be able to do the things that we've done because Sean's not working full time and things like that. And so there was a moment of reflection in this luncheon, and I wasn't expecting, like, I'm not expecting the Lord. I'm not, I shouldn't say that. Like, I'm like, Lord, if you want to say something, but we're generous, like, we're generous people. So, like, what is there really for us to be here? What do we have to be here? But it was like, hey, take a moment if there's something that the Lord wants to share with you. And so I'm like, sure, whatever. If there's something you want to say to me, God, like I that's fine. And in that moment, it was like, hey, the Lord told you it was going to be a hard year with a check in your hand. Like that is because like the Lord is going to provide for you. Like, this is just a token of like he's gonna be faithful in this and he's going to remember you in this. And that was that's that was really important for me because I actually, when I opened that check and felt sadness, I had tried several times to even rebuke the thought of like it's gonna be a hard year. Like Joel Osteen's not writing books on like your worst year yet. You know, it's not like nobody's gonna read that book. And so when you get when it doesn't make sense, it doesn't logically make sense, but openly, I'm a numbers person, I'm in sales, I'm currently the provider for my family. So what has kept me up at night, mostly you'll guess it is probably finances and the expense of like hunting down the fractures in Sean's body, trying to turn it around. And so, like, if something's gonna keep me up, it's that. And so I keep remembering, like, hey, this the Lord, the Lord is the Lord is like showing me that he's gonna be faithful to me. Our pastor Jason Shepard said this one time, I've never forgot it. He said, like, it's it's us that aren't faithful. Like the Lord is always faithful. It's us that aren't faithful. And so I thought, you know what, like we're just going, we're just gonna remain faithful, even in the way that the Lord's gonna show us he's gonna be faithful. Anyway, so I would say that, like, like I've had I wrestled early before Sean got like declining, sick, and and and the Lord has audibly shown up for me, which is um that doesn't happen very often in your life. And I felt such a tenderness that I'm not the sufferer. I'm not the sufferer. I'm not I'm I'm the person on the other side of it. And the Lord has prepared me, like he has shown up for me. He he even forewarned me, like, hey, this is gonna be a hard year. And it truly was. The first year from being sick was much harder. I say much harder, like not that it's not hard now, but it was an adjustment. A lot more conversations, working out death of my brother. What does this look like to be accountable for Sean's life as his wife? Um, and so that that that was true. Sean didn't, we didn't get to April 3rd and him be healed. Right. Which openly was kind of like, maybe Lord, it was a year. Like Sean was like, fine when you deposited that check, maybe that day.

SPEAKER_00 19:59

And we're all kind of like waiting around, like, okay, Lord, like, you know, if you're if you're real literal, you know, but um, but yeah, so I would say like that, those have been some moments, but so so talking about that, like you talked about, you know, you are currently the provider of the family. And well, when Sean was on, he talked about you being the strongest person he knows and carrying the family right now. How how do you respond to that?

SPEAKER_01 20:24

Um, well, it's really kind. I mean, really kind of him to say that. I I didn't grow up wanting to be like a lot of people. I wasn't

Strength For The Mission Today

SPEAKER_01 20:31

exposed to really television or a lot of outside things based on how we grew up. And so Sean was one of the first people I wanted to be like. And I've genuinely have done everything he's done. Like I I've just kind of have followed him well, and but he's he's easy to follow. He's he's a he he walks a good path. Yeah, he leads a good life. The the things that he does are honorable and exciting, and so and he does them with a lot of passion. And so I'm I'm passionate. So I'm like, yeah, I want to do that.

SPEAKER_03 21:02

That's great.

SPEAKER_01 21:03

That sounds great. But um I do think I don't believe in spirit animals. That would be contradictory to to my belief, but I do believe we all have the same creators. If you follow me on social media, you know I love animals, big animal lover. But I do think we are we have the same creator, right? And so I think the animals represent different strengths and how like the Lord makes us all very unique and very different. Early on, I I just I saw this image, and it this may sound so dumb, but I saw this image of this mountain goat and like literally just just like running from steep hilltop to steep hilltop. And I'm like, you know what? Like, like the Lord makes us all different and unique. And uh He made me for this. Like He made me for these mountaintops, like He made me for this season. He is in He has increased my endurance to be prepared for this, and He has given me the footing and the confidence and the strength. To be able to be the right in his creation in this moment to work out whatever it is for his glory. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 22:07

Do you feel strong? Like Sean says that he looks at, do you feel like that uh that strength right now for the family in that preparation?

SPEAKER_01 22:18

Uh not to say I don't have moments where I'm like, Sure, yeah, oh my gosh, like, you know, refill, refill my, refill my vessel of with oil, Lord. Like, is there a last little drop in there? Is there more in there? Yeah. Um so so in the moments, so this is kind of the leading up, right? So April, I hear from the Lord, you know, Sean gets sick, May's kind of a big, a big month where he takes a step away from work. Like this is kind of a what's going on here? Like, is this really okay? He's just gonna be away for a couple months or a few months. Like, I don't know, like trying to, it just feels very surreal during that time. I read two books in June. Uh, I read uh No Easy Day, which is the first account of the uh raid of Osama bin Laden. Classic to read during a time of suffering. Um, I'm my dad's military, so I'm a I'm a patriot. I'm have whole deep honor and respect for those that serve our country and serve locally. So I I love war stories. I love hearing stories of of the military and um and then I read Hope Heals by Catherine and Jade Wolf. So I read these two books, right? And so the first one's No Easy Day, and it's all these accounts from a Navy SEAL of these missions that they go on. And I was so inspired because I'm like, they're one of them, they were they hike out 10 miles to get to the spot, and they have to hike back out 10 miles to get to the spot. They pull off the mission like it goes. It wasn't even like the Osama bin Laden raid, it was all these other little ones. And I thought, what's for me to question? The Lord has gifted this person or you know, these special forces soldiers with the skills and the strength to do this very specific job that they would have to have God-given skills for. You have to be, you have to be skilled to be a heart surgeon. Like that's a that's an anointing from the Lord on gifts. You have to be a you have to be anointed to be a special forces operator. Why would I question that he didn't also give me the gifts to to be a special forces operator in my family right now? And so that's kind of how I've envisioned it. It's like, I'm a special operations officer, like and I'm operating in this. I can do that feeling strong. Like I wouldn't want to go into a mission feeling weak, or like maybe I'm not, maybe I'm not fit for this. So I feel like, no, the Lord has equipped me for this, he's prepared me for it, and like he has put on put the armor on me as over my life. So I'm I'm armored up. Yeah, I'm armored up. Yeah, so I feel strong. I don't, you know, I don't, I don't, I feel armored up for this.

SPEAKER_00 24:54

And I think that's the perspective we need because it's not about, yes, I'm I'm strong because it's my strength is I'm strong because the Lord has put me in this place. I'm strong because the Lord is within me. I'm strong because of my belief in Him. I'm strong. Everything points to God, points to Jesus. And that's the perspective we should have. And sometimes we feel like we get overwhelmed because we think, oh, I've got to do this. I've got to, you know, check the box. I've got to, there's a laundry list of stuff today that I've got to do in my own strength, instead of saying, Yeah, I am strong, but it's not because of me. It's because of you. Yeah, that's a great perspective.

Suffering Set On Him From Hebrews 12

SPEAKER_00 25:27

All right. So the last question I have along these lines is Sean said that you tell him that the suffering isn't for you, but it's on you. Explain that.

SPEAKER_01 25:36

Yeah, so I every night when I get in bed, I read Hebrews 12. I start off Hebrews 12, and right it so it talks about the you know, running your race of endurance. And and then it talks about that the suffering was set on him. It's talking about Jesus. It says even before you open it like Jesus, the founder perfect of our faith. So it says suffering was set on him. This is such an image of our life right now because I'm I'm running, training for an ultra marathon, two ultramarathons. So I'm legitimately running a race, right? And it's in representation of the race that Sean's running and his suffering. It's an expectation that he'll be healed. Like I'm like, I'm running this, I'm running these races with this expectation, but the suffering is set on him. And I think, I think we get in this mindset where there's this choose joy kind of lingo that is can be very difficult in suffering. And it never says that he chose joy. He looked to joy. The joy was set before him, he looked to it. And so, like, I think that's why I keep thinking of like, hey, Jesus didn't like like jolly down the road suffering as a frail, fractured body to go die. He had joy set before him. Like his eyes were on that joy set before him and suffering set on him. And I think because I've had the worst job in this, but the best seat. I've seen that, hey, this suffering's on you. But like, like there's so many miracles that have happened. He's talked about that. There's so much that's happened. I get to see that more than him because my eyes are clear. I'm not in pain. I'm not malnourished. I'm not starved. I'm not lacking anything. So I get the full perspective of honestly this picture of the crucifixion that I've never had, but I've never seen before until now. To where, like, I think of the picture, and I mean he talked about this when I told him, like, hey, Jesus didn't go to the cross like looking like some warrior. He didn't go to the cross and the cross just fall over because he was so big and strong. Like he still had to be held up by nails. Like he was weak and he was frail. He almost died on the way, so much so that someone else had to be selected to carry that cross. And so I think about why did they pick that person to carry the cross? I don't know, but there was something about the person that they picked to carry the cross. That person was told basically, you're gonna carry this cross. There's something about them that resembled somebody that could. And I don't know what that person did, but I guarantee you, as that person was carrying the cross, they thought, like, they had to look physically strong, to be honest. Like there was like, so I'm sure you thought, man, however, many things I've ever carried that were heavy, it was for this moment.

SPEAKER_03 28:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:28

And so, like, I've seen this image of like, I've been selected like out of obedience, right? Like I carry this cross for the our family. I see the suffering that Sean is walking in, and I'm I'm I'm still following him. Yeah, I'm still following Sean metaphorically in this, but we're both following Jesus as image bearers. And so, like, I see this, right? And that, and I see the the the change that it's making in our family.

SPEAKER_03 28:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:54

Because if you go to that story, that same person that carried the cross for Jesus, there's a lot to say that later on that man's children were part of building the church. And so it's like that person, I I know he felt prepared more than ever for that moment to carry the weight, and I know it changed his life forever. And so I'm like, you were doing, you know, like this is an image. This isn't the we're just image bearers at the moment. Like we all are image bearers. But I see it more than ever in that. Yeah, you know?

SPEAKER_00 29:26

Yeah. So I

Marriage That Makes You Holy

SPEAKER_00 29:28

I love what you're talking about so far because you you kind of answered the next question, but I want to see if you have anything else to say about it about how going through this has maybe changed or shaped the way you look at a biblical marriage. I I love the way you talk about I wanted to be like Sean, so I followed him. And that's what we should do. He should be the priestly leader of your home, and you so you should follow him, but at the same time, this is a partnership. So as he has gotten weak in his body, um, you have picked up the slack in that in a partnership. Uh I think that in our culture, we look at the Bible and we look at what a biblical marriage is, and we think that women are sometimes we think them as below, underneath, and the Bible never says that. So do you have anything else to say about a biblical marriage walking through this in your preparation and where you're at now uh for a husband and a wife?

SPEAKER_01 30:20

There's all these dumb shows on TV, right? Like relationship shows and and and some of them will base them around kind of like marriages, trial marriages, things like that. And I'm like, yeah, you just give that person the for worser and the for sicker for a week then. Like, you know, like you just you give them something like you give the you give them that and let's see how it goes, you know. Um, but I, you know, openly, I think Tim Keller says this, and I've kind of ridden on this for a long time. Like, marriage isn't to make you happy, it's to make you holy. And I do think I'm a strong believer in that marriage is a reflection of the church and our relationship with the church and our relationship with how Jesus seeks to redeem the church. And so I think a lot of churches are fractured and good can be done in fractured bodies. Being a part of the mission to glorify the Lord's name and wanting to be a caretaker for the fractures and wanting to understand them and redeem them so more good can be done. Like that's what we should do in our marriage to reflect the whole purpose of what marriage should reflect, which is Christ in the church. And we should do that in our churches. And so, like, that is we've got to kind of live that out in two part, but I keep saying that like good can be done in a fractured body. Like, good can be done through a fractured body. We don't stop at a fractured body, but good's still being done. And so being able to be present with him and his grief and whatever he's going through, but just also remember like that hey, so much good's being done through him. Yeah. And it's it's it's not, it's he's still honestly more whole than ever, even though he's more fractured than ever.

SPEAKER_02 32:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:10

And so if he leans into being more holy till the day he dies and more fractured, like I I will uh like I'm here to be faithful to that.

SPEAKER_00 32:21

And I think he he kind of mentioned, uh, maybe not in all these words, but the way he spoke is he's more of a man now than he was before, even though physically like he was an MMA fighter or a SWAT. I mean, like just all these things, but the way he walks with God now uh in in suffering is a bit different than what he did in the past. And and that's just a growth process and spiritually and and um so how do you um parent your children right now, uh, especially maybe focused on their spiritual growth in this and relying on God and seeing what's going on in your family?

SPEAKER_01 33:01

Well, they're all

Parenting Kids Through Fear And Faith

SPEAKER_01 33:02

different, right? So if uh a nine, twenty-four-year-old, and four-year-old, that's their home order, birth order. Uh but we gotta honor home when you came home. When you walk through those doors, is your birth order. So uh so Naya, she's 24, but she's you know, she's number two. She's the second. Um, but they all need something different, you know. Like, like openly, Talon, nine-year-old, he's had his dad the longest. Naya, she's 24, she's desired to have a dad her whole life. And this is her first time in seven years having a dad. You know, for the last seven years, she's had a dad. And then Valor is, you know, just coming out of toddlerhood and is like a little kid for the first time. And her questions are different. I think that I I come I'm one of 11 kids. So, you know, there's just there's practicality to that, right? There's you can't hold you can't hold space for all 11 kids all the time. But I have the gift of of having three. And so I think holding space for their grief and their questions is what I want. And so we have questions that um I ask them questions depending on the c like how how things are going. Usually every couple of weeks, you know, I'll say, Hey Talon, how are you doing with daddy being sick? And he'll be like, medium, you know, and I'm like, Yeah, okay. And you know, just asking him open questions, like, what's your biggest fear in this? And he's like, that daddy would die. And and I'm like, okay. I'm like, what happens when daddy dies? Like, I'm just trying to walk out. I don't again, I don't want to be in the same way the Lord has just welcomed me and invited me. Yeah, I want to invite them. Like, tell me, tell me where your yoke is easy and where your burden isn't light. Is it that you I think that would be a heavy yoke talent talent to live a life without your dad? Like, I I'm not taking that from you. What do you think eternity is like? And making sure like I'm building their theology of an eternal mindset and worldly suffering and the presence of miracles. Like I have to hold space for all of that. Like I think the grieving with hope is in the anticipatory grief and later grief, but they need that now. And so asking those questions and just helping them kind of understand, yeah, holding space for them and just being like, hey, where are you at with this?

SPEAKER_00 35:25

Yeah. You know, I want to circle back to something just just what we've talked about and your strength and parenting and who who takes care of Dalen? Like who

Who Supports The Caregiver

SPEAKER_00 35:37

who do you lean? Other than God, obviously that's number one. But is there somebody in your life where you turn to to talk to?

SPEAKER_01 35:45

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 35:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:46

Um, this has been tricky. This has been tricky. This is this is not uh the easier side of it because it is hard. I I do think that for some people supporting Sean is is primary, right? And so maybe if I have shared uh something that's really deep going on, like I'm really wrestling with, then, then, and I've gotten silence in return from that, they've actually feel like now I'm informed. Now I know how to now I know how to support Sean next time. And so there's been some, there has been some moments of feeling a little bit like no one's coming for you. I do have three sisters, so I will say that we're all really close. So I'm grateful for uh with 11 kids, like you build a network with your siblings. Like you, I have a network with my siblings that that I I can pull from, right? Like I can pull from for support. And so uh my sisters are great in a few, few key relationships, but but not many, you know, not many. And I don't, I don't mind that. Again, I don't, I didn't grow up really. I I don't I just have never really have kind of been an independent person, but uh I need community. We have community, right? But to the really big wrestles, like I really just need a few walking close with me to be in that. And um, but again, the I'm I'm not meaning the Lord is really, really near to me and usually meets me before I meet him.

SPEAKER_00 37:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:13

You know?

SPEAKER_00 37:13

Yep, yeah. How's uh how's your church community been? How's that uh walking through this? I know Sean had mentioned it a few times, but how's how's that been walking through this with them?

SPEAKER_01 37:25

Good. I mean that's been great. I mean I really I don't think people make it well through suffering without biblical church community. I don't think they would make it well. And I I don't I don't think I don't think marriages make it well. I don't think so any type of suffering. I don't care what it is. But to have this level of support and love from them has been um just like something I'll cherish forever. Like I feel as loyal to our church as I do my marriage. I mean, like I hold them in such a way of like, hey, I'm committed to you for life. Like I, like I, like I they have held us up. Like I that whole vision of you know, breaking in the roof and the man lowering. I'm like, that's not what we have. Like we have people that are actually like parting the way, opening the door, running faster with endurance before us to go be like, Jesus over here, like over here. Or, or do I have can you give me the gift today that I be that I have the touch of healing? Like, what if that? Like I'll I won't even tell anybody, like if that could heal Sean. Like, you know, there's people that are just like, hey, constantly asking for miracles, constantly asking for healing and involving our kids in that. And that's what they're seeing, you know? And so they're coming to our home to do that. And so that's really special.

SPEAKER_00 38:41

Yeah.

Counsel For Wives Facing Suffering

SPEAKER_00 38:42

Uh so if somebody else would be going through a difficult time, another wife, how would you I I guess it's just a maybe even a two-part question, but what would you tell them if they're going through something? But maybe they're not going through something yet, but we all go through something eventually. What would you tell them to prepare?

SPEAKER_01 38:59

Yeah, I you know, I think all the writings from James, Peter, Paul, right? They all talk about suffering. They all mention it, right? And and and that's because the climate that they're the people they're writing to, they're living in. Like they know that they're under a a rule that is going to delight in their suffering. And so suffering's not because you're a follower of suffering, they're speaking to, hey, you're gonna suffer because the government over you is going to delight in you suffering. And so we we will all likely suffer due to brokenness similarly. Um, but I won't get on any of those tangents for this. But um, I had a conversation with with uh a wife that her husband's been sick for a month just a couple weeks ago, and encouraging her to be like, hey, your husband's suffering, and the whole image of like, hey, of Jesus being broken and frail, and then just being like, being telling her, like, hey, you're a special forces operator. Like the Lord did not put you on this mission because you're weak. He has put on every little piece of armor and seasons of your life. Otherwise, if you put the whole thing on, it'd be too heavy. But you've built the strength, like you've put in the time to be able to carry each piece of armor, you're fully clothed. Like you are fit enough, like you are fit in a way to being called to carry this cross. Like you're like you're you're prepared for this, and you were chosen out of obedience for a good reason. And so um just just and just encouraging them of like you're not weak in this, like the Lord is here with you and you're strong. Like you're you're fit for this.

SPEAKER_00 40:29

And and this might go on to the to the same thing, it might be the same exact answer. I don't know, but uh, if you sat with Dalen three years ago, knowing what you know now, what you're going through with your family, is there anything, any piece of advice that you would give yourself or anything that you would say, any kind of encouragement, or what would it be?

SPEAKER_01 40:48

Yeah, I I mentioned I read that book, Hope Heals, and maybe I would have read it sooner. It probably came at the right time. It's really interesting, right? Like Catherine has an aneurysm when she's 26, they have a six-month-old baby, and but the book is written from her perspective and her husband's. And so you have the sufferer and then the person that has to keep life going as a parent, financially, as a caregiver. And so it gave me a space to hold space for myself and to to also be like, hey, there's real because you it honestly is hard sometimes. Like, I'm not in pain. And if I am, I take ibuprofen. You know, like I'm I'm just like 800 milligrams of ibuprofen away from being painless anytime I want. To feel that there is space for that and there's there is weight in that is I think would be something that would encourage me to not invalidate my role.

SPEAKER_00 41:42

The last question I have before I I'll eventually ask you if you have anything you want to add, but what's the hardest thing going through this season of life? You mentioned finances and that kind of keeps you up a little bit, right? But um just is there anything else that might be like, man, this is just the the hardest to watch or to walk through?

SPEAKER_01 42:03

Um finances are honestly they're hard, but they're easy, right? Because, you know, it as soon as they're relieved, they're relieved, right? They can kind of pulse. So that that does go away eventually. Um I think the hardest part is facing your spouse's fears or or witnessing them come true.

SPEAKER_03 42:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:22

I think for for Sean to have a stated fear of being like, I feel like I'm just gonna waste away in front of my kids. And me actually being the only one. I always say this: like, people will throw stuff at me all the time, and I say, nobody lives in my reality more than me. Like nobody sees him starved with his, you know, getting ready for bed with most of his clothes off. Like nobody sees the level of malnourishment that I see. Like nobody sees the vulnerability emotionally that I see. So openly, it'd just be like if you, if your child was scared of burning and like their house catching on fire and their house caught on fire, and the house caught on fire, you'd be like, oh my gosh, there that was their fear became the reality. I think that is uh something that that is it brings real grief to see to see their biggest fear um happen. And it, you know, I ask the Lord sometimes, like, re remind me of his suffering. Like, don't take, like, keep it, keep it real to me. And that keeps it real to me so that, so that I'm never like like just like, oh, I'm so strong working through the seasons. Like, oh no, this is like this is so tough. Like, I'm I'm strong, but I'm in, I'm in a war. Like I'm battling. I told this to Sean just a couple days ago. I'm like, hey, it he has to wake up and do it again every day. And it's a practice of like being in the suffering. I said, if you got stabbed once, it's like getting stabbed every day. You'd be like, Oh, I got stabbed. Yeah, I forgive you. It's like forgiveness. You have to practice forgiveness. I was like, but you're getting stabbed every day. And those wounds are increasing, that pain is increasing, but also you're You're having to increase the practice of so you know, surrender and and just being like, okay, okay, Lord, like what are we doing with this? And so, um, yeah, that's hard. It's hard witnessing your spouse decline, uh, slow loss.

SPEAKER_00 44:15

I can't imagine.

SPEAKER_01 44:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:17

Well, is there anything that we haven't gone over that you want maybe you came in, man, I I really want to tell people this, or is there anything on your heart that you might want to, you know, let people know?

SPEAKER_01 44:27

Uh no, honestly, I I really have um reserved these conversations mostly for Sean because I I think I think to be sanctified in suffering is not something people choose. People don't choose that. I didn't choose it when my brother died when I was 17. I didn't I chose the suffering as my sanctification, which it wasn't because I constantly looked for ways out, ways out of my grief and 17, you know. So, um, but to witness him choose sanctification through his suffering, I I I honor that and I I want these seats really to be reserved for him because I think that it's um it's it's special, it's sacred. It's sacred, right? And so uh I'm grateful to get to share whatever the work of it, the toil of it looks like, but um, but openly, I I still like I'm still uphold him even in this season. Yeah, I want to hear from him more. Yeah, you know?

SPEAKER_00 45:28

Yeah, awesome. Well, I can't tell you how honored we are that you both came and shared, not just because it's this podcast, but for people that are going through whatever they're going through, that they need to hear hope and you're pointing toward hope who is Jesus. And in that preparation in the season that you're going through, because not everybody has the the courage while you're going through it to talk about it. It's one thing to go through it and look back and say, Oh, I can see God work, I can see what he did, I can see y'all. But as you're going through something that you're going through, it's it's not easy to come and and share while you're suffering.

Anticipatory Grief And Human Design

SPEAKER_01 46:06

So we'd be like, I guess the last thing I would like on that note is I would say, like, for people that are going through it, anticipatory grief is not a lack of faith. Anticipatory grief is not the presence of doubt. Anticipatory grief is a is a human biological process that we go through as human people. And so I think some people may tie anticipatory grief to to spiritual aspects. And sure, they could, they can be some things that you hold at the same time. But for people that feel some things that feel like grief while your spouse is still living, I would, I encourage, and I told this lady that, like, hey, I want you to just look into the to what anticipatory grief looks like. Tell tell AI, this is what my spouse has, and I think I have anticipatory grief. Help me lay this out. And it just brings, like, hey, the Lord designed me like this to feel, to feel as a human, very human things. And this is not a separation from him, this is not a lack of faith. This is just how he created me as a human to and to anticipate. I see that my four-year-old who has an innocent faith, innocent belief in God, she goes through it. So it's like this is not, this is just who we are. And the Lord is again just that father present with us at the sink on a walk, on a run, of like, I'm here, I'm present with you in your anticipatory grief. You know, so that's great.

SPEAKER_00 47:31

Thanks for sharing that. Yeah,

Prayer For Strength And Miracles

SPEAKER_00 47:32

no, um, the last thing, would you mind praying for honestly for um just for people that are that are suffering that they turn to the Lord? If they're not, that they they turn to him. If they are that they are strengthened by it through it. Um that, like you said, you are built for a time such as this. So if you don't mind doing that, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 47:53

Oh, Father Lord, like we just it says cast our cares on you because you care for us. Like, because your yoke is easy, your burden is light. So much you would just trade, you would trade our space, not only on the cross, but in whatever we're carrying for the day. Lord, for these people that are in places of suffering or caregiving, where the road that you're that they're walking is not a road you haven't walked. You have walked that road, broken, frail, fractured, and the weight that they carried. You know, and you created the person that also carried the cross behind you. And at some point in that person carrying that cross realized this isn't Jesus of Nazareth, Nazareth's cross, this is my cross. So, Lord, just there's so much of a reflection in suffering and caregiving that is to make your name great. So I just pray that in the matter of how you use miracles, which I hope you do, I hope you use you layer in thousands of miracles through one suffering, you do that, Lord. But and however you layer in suffering, Lord, that it just be to increase the faith of many. It be for an eternal purpose, an eternal mindset, but also that it have earthly proof, just like you did when you walked on the earth. You had earthly proof that you were the son of God. You touch people to heal them, Lord, so that through the suffering, through the miracles, there'd be earthly proof in 2026, right now. Like, man, he didn't just live back then, he is alive today, seated on the seated next to the throne of God. And that, Lord, you are working in this today. You're working in this through these people's lives, that they would feel encouraged and they would feel like this special mission that they are on. You are leading the way, you are with them in this, and they are not alone, and they are strong in you through you and because of you. Yep. So thank you for these things, and thank you that we can just uh put everything in your hands, no matter how many things we hold, you can hold what's in our hands. So we love you. So in your name we pray, Jesus. Amen.

SPEAKER_03 49:57

Thank you so much.