From Gender Dysphoria to Psychiatrist & Pastor: A Raw Conversation

How does God’s grace meet us in the quietest, heaviest struggles of the human mind?

In this episode of Kingdom Chaos, host Troy sits down with Dr. Paul Looney—a board-certified psychiatrist, pastor, author, husband of over 40 years, father, and grandfather. But long before Dr. Looney was helping others navigate the complexities of mental health and spiritual growth, he was a young boy in the 1950s wrestling in secret with gender dysphoria and deep personal tragedy.

This is a raw, thoughtful, and deeply honest conversation bridging clinical expertise with personal story. Dr. Looney opens up about the secret feelings he carried as a child, the friction inside his home, and how faith sustained him through tragedy and uncertainty.

If you are looking for a gentle, clinically grounded, and faith-centered perspective on identity, suffering, and God's enduring grace in the mess of life, you won't want to miss this conversation.

What’s in this episode

• Dr. Paul Looney's childhood experience with gender dysphoria
• Growing up before gender identity became a public conversation
• The relationship between identity, shame, and belonging
• How faith shaped his response to same-sex attraction
• The tragedy that changed the trajectory of his life
• Why honesty with God matters more than pretending
• What parents should know when a child struggles with identity
• How churches can speak truth without losing compassion
• Why brokenness doesn't disqualify us from God's purpose
• Finding hope through surrender instead of self-definition

Key Scriptures

“You will seek me and find me, when you seek me with all your heart.” Jeremiah 29:13

“Although he was a son, he learned obedience through what he suffered.” Hebrews 5:8

“…do not be surprised at the fiery trial when it comes upon you to test you, as though something strange were happening to you.” 1 Peter 4:12

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.” John 3:16

“Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind…” Romans 12:2

Reflection questions                  

1. Where am I allowing my feelings to define my identity instead of Christ?
2. What struggle have I been afraid to bring honestly before God?
3. How can I better show both truth and compassion to someone wrestling with identity?
4. Is there an area of brokenness I've been trying to fix myself instead of surrendering to Jesus?
5. What does it look like to trust God when I don't understand why I'm struggling?
6. How can I become a safe person for others without compromising biblical truth?   

Key Takeaway

Our deepest struggles do not place us beyond God's reach—they often become the very place where He invites us into deeper dependence, greater honesty, and lasting transformation. Identity is not ultimately found in our feelings or our brokenness but in Jesus Christ, who meets us with both truth and grace.

Quote from the episode

"If you're feeling something... take it to God. That's what I think God loved about David. Whatever David was feeling, he was taking it to God."

Take It to the Cross for Couples: from conflict to connection - by Paul A. Looney MD (Author) 

Growing Strong in Christ through the Beatitudes: 31 Devotions for Individuals or Groups - by Paul Looney (Author) 

CrossTies: The Beatitudes for Every Believer - by Paul A. Looney MD (Author) 

TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@paullooneymd

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YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@paullooney

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"Real People. Real Struggles. Real Grace."

Music by AlexGrohl from Pixabay

Transcript

Welcome To Kingdom Chaos

SPEAKER_02 0:07

Welcome to Kingdom Chaos, a podcast for anyone trying to live a purpose and faith-filled life in a loud and messy world. Jesus said his kingdom in another world, yet here we are navigating real life and real struggles. I'm not a guru, just someone learning that God's grace meets us even in the chaos. This is Kingdom Chaos where faith meets real life and purpose is still found in the mess. Welcome back to King Chaos.

Dr Paul Looney Joins Troy

SPEAKER_02 0:35

My name is Troy, and today we are stepping into a conversation that sits right in the intersection of deep personal storytelling, clinical psychiatry, and faith. And today my guest is Dr. Paul Looney, a board certified psychiatrist, pastor, author, husband to Terry for over 40 years, a father to three sons, and a grandfather many times over. And also he's served on many nonprofit boards, founded many ministries, worked on the state level as far as a psychiatrist, universities, prison ministry, so many different things that you've done. But long before that, long before you were helping people navigate the complexities of the human mind and their spiritual journey, you had grown up as a young boy in the 60s wrestling with gender dysphoria. It's long before this was mainstream and in the conversation in the public eye. But today, Paul, we want you to open up about the early years, the secret struggles, the feelings that you had growing up figuring out I'm a boy, but I want to be a girl, the friction inside your home, a devastating tragedy that changed the trajectory of your life. Just your faith struggles in that as well. And just look what it means to uh answer questions for other people that might be walking through that same thing. But this is going to be a raw, thoughtful, and deeply honest conversation. So we really appreciate your honesty and openness that you're coming on the show today. So welcome. Thank you so much for being here.

SPEAKER_00 2:12

I'm glad to be here, Troy. Yeah, um, you do me a little bit of a favor. It's actually the 50s. I was born in 1955.

SPEAKER_01 2:18

There you go.

SPEAKER_00 2:18

Right in the middle of the baby boom. Yep. Um, I was the third of uh four kids, and um, my parents got married in 52, my sister's born in 53, my brother in 54, I was born in 55, and then my younger brother in 58. So you're all smashed in there together. But um, I tell people there's a name, there's a reason our name is Looney, because um, although it fits for my my psychiatry practice, it also fits in terms of our family history because there's plenty of dysfunction and even some craziness. As everybody has. Exactly.

Wanting To Be A Girl

SPEAKER_00 2:49

So um, yeah, for me, uh, very early on, I realized that I wanted to be a girl. So I played with paper dolls, I played with the girls at school, I danced around the house in my sister's nightgown. Back then, I I tell people I was kind of the head of the transgender dysphoria curve or the gender dysphoria curve, the transgender curve, because back then, really very little was was public about people having that kind of uh struggle. There's one uh serviceman who took the name Christine Jorgensen, but for me as a little kid, like there was never any thought that I could actually become a girl, but I really wanted to be one. And even even later in my even in my adult years, um, I would find myself watching a movie and being more identified with the strong female lead than the male lead. Yeah. And I tell people I have kind of a girly brain, um, which really was was such a uh again a struggle. Now, my parents, my dad was getting his doctorate in psychology at the University of uh Wyoming. And so by God's grace, they didn't um affirm my wanting to be a girl, but they also didn't shame me about it, yeah. Which it turns out is probably the best thing to do. So they they knew about it early on? Oh, of course. Okay. Yeah. I mean, it was pretty obvious. Yeah. But they um, but they they just you know figured it was a phase I would grow it up. And in in fact, the research shows that if it's not reinforced, and and statistically it's more boys that want to be girls than girls that want to be boys, that may be changing now, but historically it's been more boys, and if it's not reinforced, then about close to about 90% of those boys will settle into being uh comfortable with their male gender. Unfortunately, the research now shows if if the person is in reinforced, um, they're about 90% are gonna stick with it. So for me, it was a matter of of uh kind of working through my own struggle with it and and just coming to terms with it. I think so many things in life um we have uh we have to struggle with things that that disturb us, that feel wrong or unfair. But if we're willing to hang in there, a lot of times we actually come to terms with whatever it is we have to deal with, an illness, a loss. But for me, that was um something that that eventually I came to terms with. And actually, even though I wanted to be different, at first I wanted to be a girl, and then later I wanted to be like other guys because I didn't feel like I fit in either category.

SPEAKER_02 5:45

You were in the middle there. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 5:47

And so I, you know, I wanted to be like somebody like Troy Pombuff, who's like, you know, a manly man. Um, and I certainly wasn't that. I was terrible at sports, I was a shrimp of a kid, and so had a lot of self-rejection. Yeah, and I think that was part of what then later um allowed me to to find myself attracted to men rather than women, because again, what the the studies show that what's what the phrase is what's exotic becomes erotic. And if you don't feel connected to your masculinity, as I certainly didn't, then you're you're likely to feel attracted to that in somebody else.

SPEAKER_01 6:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:27

And that's why most people are attracted to the opposite sex, because it's different, it's it's exotic, it's attractive and and seems to offer completion. Yeah. And so for for people like me who did not feel comfortable in my own skin, being attracted to other men was something that came along later and caused me even more consternation, more pain and struggle. Because by that time I was a believer. I believed that same-sex relationships were not allowed in the kingdom.

SPEAKER_02 7:02

How old were you when you were a believer?

Legalism Assurance And Emotional Shutdown

SPEAKER_00 7:04

I would say that I I I came to faith early. Um I was growing grew up in a Christian home and I got baptized at eight in a at a summer camp in Wyoming in a glacier lake, freezing cold. But I, you know, I I was escaping the fire of hell and dipped in. Perfect, they know icy water. So yeah. But um, I do think that God claimed me as his own back then. But I was in, I grew up in the church of Christ very um back then pretty legalistic and rigid and kind of exclusive, like we're the only ones that are going to heaven. Yeah, but it was back then the church of Christ mentality was you would you really didn't know if you're gonna go to heaven. That was kind of spiritual pride. And so I did my best to dot every I and cross every T and do what the Bible said because I wanted to be in the Lord's army, sure, wanted to be his you know favorite son. Yeah. And so um, so I I kind of worked in that kind of contract context until I got to be a teenager and I realized that it wasn't enough. Like I needed to know if I was gonna miss out on what the world offered or be thought to be a Jesus freak or goofball or whatever, that I wanted to know I was gonna be in at the end of the day. Yeah, and that's when I really started getting serious with God and saying, hey, I need assurance. And that's when I he brought people into my life who knew that they were heaven-bound, but not because of their own righteousness, but because of what Jesus did. Yeah, yeah. So that was a big trend turning point for me. And I had this, you know, experience of the baptism of the Holy Spirit and a desire to read God's word. I'm just like devouring it. But I was very shut down emotionally and sexually based on my early experience being in a home where sex and negative feelings were not were not dealt with at all.

SPEAKER_02 9:07

So your your family knew, or at least your your parents knew. Did did outsiders know that they like your schoolmates or well?

SPEAKER_00 9:13

I'm you know, again, it wasn't a thing back then. Yeah, yeah. I was just a sissy boy. Like playing with the girls at recess. I still had some guy friends, but like we would play Monopoly, not baseball. Yeah. So sure. Um so the the good thing for me was that I was really good in school and I had a great talent artistically, and uh adults liked me a lot. And so I didn't get bullied a lot because I did have I did have a couple of good guy friends from church that kind of gave me some protection. And so I I somehow God spared me from a lot of ridicule or bullying. But I just think people thought of me as a sissy boy, and all through elementary school, you know, I the only reason I wasn't the last person chosen for sports was because my best friend was a guy named Matthew Paul, who was also super bright, and he took a liking to me, and he would choose me, even though everybody else on the team was like, don't choose Paul. So I had, you know, I had my own share of shame about my body and about being a sissy boy. But but again, I I feel like God really spared me a lot of external rejection about it.

SPEAKER_02 10:34

Yeah, yeah. And as far as carrying that through childhood, did you feel I mean, how'd how did you that internally? I mean, did you feel okay, I'm just this way, or how did that work as far as um like externally it wasn't a thing, right? But internally, did how d how did you show it? Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 10:52

And like I said, you know, when I was real small, I would dance around the house and in my sister's nightgown and such, and you know, put on, you know, feminine clothing, whatever, and and Halloween I would dress up as a girl, whatever. So there were these things that I would do that would give a little bit of vent to that. Yeah. But again, there wasn't like uh there was no way I was gonna leave the house with nail polish on. Right. Whatever. So and and like I said, there there are some things we just when you take them for granted, like, okay, well, this is just something that I experience. And I because it wasn't made a big deal in my house, I don't think it it caused huge amounts of trauma.

SPEAKER_02 11:37

Okay, so it wasn't a big deal kind of for you because it wasn't addressed that way as a big deal in the home.

SPEAKER_00 11:42

Yeah, and I just like I say, I played with paper dolls, I did, you know, I did early things, but it wasn't like I thought I could be a girl.

SPEAKER_02 11:50

Right, yeah, yeah. And so moving on, once you became a believer, like really took your faith seriously, what were the struggles between what you felt and what you knew God's word was? How did

Same Sex Attraction And Honest Prayer

SPEAKER_02 12:01

you do that?

SPEAKER_00 12:01

So a lot of it, I mean, early on, it was just trying to be a good servant of God and uh, you know, learning about my body and masturbation and feeling terrible about that, and not really having any context for dealing with sexual things at all. And then when I realized I was more attracted to guys than girls, that's when it really heated up. And I was like, this is not in the script, this is not in the program. How can I be a servant of God and be wired this way? And but but the cool thing for me, and I I any of our listeners who are dealing with something that seems so unfair and so wrong, to me it became an invitation to get early honest with God. The Bible says, if you seek me with your whole heart, I will be found by you. And for me, I had sought God earnestly and passionately. Um, but this at this point, because I was so upset with the struggle that I had, I pursued God angrily, conf with confusion, with anxiety, with frustration, you know, like I brought it all, and that's where I think I, you know, found a deeper connection with God was through that like what the heck, you know, what w how is this happening? I didn't choose this, and so I couldn't reconcile my faith with my sexuality, and that really uh again drove me to God.

SPEAKER_01 13:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:37

There was a time though when I was really seriously considering just throwing myself into um same-sex relationships. I had never done that, but I was in medical school, and there was even someone in our church who was who knew that I struggled in that way and was just encouraging me to just you know accept it and go in that direction.

SPEAKER_02 14:01

It was it was at that time sounds like a lot of our culture today is do, you know. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:07

It's it's it's so surprising, Troy, that our culture really is because it's it's lost the context of eternity. We believe, like, oh well, everybody deserves to be happy, right? And if you're wired that way, then you should just be happy with it. Exactly. But but in the context of eternity, all of our struggles pale in light of what we're ultimately made for. We're not just made for sex. In fact, the apostle Paul says we the body is not meant for sexual immorality, but for the Lord and the Lord for the body. So the bigger picture is like, oh no, your body belongs to God. In the Old Testament, he puts his mark

Brother Suicide And The Pull Of Eternity

SPEAKER_00 14:48

on a man's genitals to say, hey, this belongs to me. And so, um, so at this moment, though, that I was so frustrated and ready to just throw in the towel, my older brother ended his life uh with a gun.

SPEAKER_02 15:04

And how what ages you're gonna do?

SPEAKER_00 15:06

I was 22. Okay. He was 24, he was 18 months older than me. Okay, and so he um he had just turned 24 and I was 22, and I got the call from my aunt that he was gone and had to deliver the news to my mom.

SPEAKER_02 15:20

But what was your relationship with him growing up?

SPEAKER_00 15:23

So, as is often the case with guys who struggle with same-sex attraction, often there's a disconnect between the boy and the dad, and part of that may be because dads don't necessarily know what to do with a sissy boy like me. But part of it also, um, if there's an older brother who's somewhat rejecting, it can interfere with that boy's ability to identify with other men. And so I had the distant dad and a rejecting older brother. And at a certain point, when I was probably six or seven, he gave me the message that I was a pest, he didn't want me around, and I just made a judgment to just shut my heart to him. Yeah, I'm like, you don't want me, I don't want you. And it it turns out that that judgment or that decision not to expose myself to rejection went into all my relationships. And I I chose not to make myself vulnerable with anybody. And um, so in answer to your question, we grew up in the same house, but we were very disconnected. Thankfully, the year before he ended his life, I had had on my heart to just reach out to him and had made several phone calls and actually saw him a couple of weeks before his death, having no idea what he was dealing with. He had gotten married a year before, and evidently the marriage had gone south, and his wife and her little daughter had moved out. But I had no idea just how dark his world was. In fact, his his suicide note said he'd been dealing with suicidal thoughts since he was 11 years old. Oh wow. And of course, because we were so disconnected, yeah, I had no idea. Yeah. So it was a shock, but it brought me back to eternity, brought me back to reality, like, oh shoot, you know, there is a day coming when we will give an account. And that kind of pulled me back from the precipice of, you know, I was about to dive in. And um the irony of that, or the maybe the grace in that is that it was late 70s when I was considering be engaging in homosexual activity. And it was right at the time that the AIDS virus was circulating in the Houston Galveston area, and um within a with like my 81, I think it was finally identified. But it's very possible that I could have been infected before there were good treatments. And like so many men in that era um died of the illness. Yeah. So, you know, it's it's possible my brother's death saved my life.

SPEAKER_02 17:46

Yeah, yeah. And so, and you're in college at this time, right? Because you're in the middle of the year. I was in medical school.

SPEAKER_00 17:50

Okay, yeah, it was between year one and two in medical school. Okay. And when did you and Terry meet? So we met when we were 16. Okay. And um I was very, I mean, I was very naive, very immature. But she she told her mom the night that at Redford, she met me that day. She told her mom we were gonna, she was gonna marry me. Yeah. Oh wow. And yeah, and sure enough, it took 11 years. Right, but it happened. But it happened, and that's a I mean, it's a whole nother story. But but part of the reason it took so long is because I was still struggling with this same-sex attraction that you know I did not date in high school or college or medical school. Well, in medical school I did some, but um, but I was not a dater, but I I really had a love for Terry that um like Jacob, who was kind of a girly guy in the Bible, uh he he met Rachel and you know, she had it won his heart. And I think that's that's really true of Terry, but maybe for another podcast we can talk about that because God really um worked in a powerful way in that. But I I had broken up with her. We had sort of we'd been quasi-dating in college, and then I really when I got to medical school, I thought that I really wanted to be with her, but once again I got cold feet and broke it off.

SPEAKER_02 19:11

Yeah, and was the was the struggle of of not dating that would that was that the struggle of the gender dysphoria?

SPEAKER_00 19:16

Well, partly, but part of it it was I I honestly wanted to be like my namesake, the Apostle Paul. Okay. I wanted to make a difference in the kingdom and thought that maybe I should just maybe part of my calling was to be a single man, to not marry and to just give myself over to God's work. Yeah. So there's there because I I even in all of the struggle, I knew God loved me and I loved him, even though there were times when I was very angry and felt unfairly, you know, treated, and you know, but but there was never that I I was like it was like Job, I think, that I always knew that somehow God was worthy of my worship, and that somehow it would all make sense if I could just wrestle with him long enough like Jacob did um to to find where the blessing was in this distress.

Choice Surrender And Grace In Brokenness

SPEAKER_00 20:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:10

Well what about choice? We hear that when is I I don't have a choice in this, you know.

SPEAKER_00 20:16

So so here's the thing if if someone has um alcoholism in their family, which I do, my wife does, you are you don't have a choice about your brain chemistry. And I I work with people who remember the first time they ever tasted alcohol because it was like the heavens opened up, because if your brain chemistry is is kind of off, alcohol can kind of make you feel better. Um, same thing with drug abuse, um, anger. Some people struggle with anger or depression. Like you don't necessarily choose to have anger or depression, but you do have a choice about how you manage that. And so I don't think people choose to feel gender dysphoria or to be attracted to the same sex, but you do have a choice about how you deal with that. Um, if someone's inclination may be to overeat or overspend or be greedy or proud. Like we're all broken, in my opinion. And we don't get to necessarily choose our area of brokenness. I certainly didn't choose my area, but if we're willing, we can see God's grace in it. And for me, as a uh therapist who works with couples, I think my girly brain helps me to be able to empathize and to connect with both men and women.

SPEAKER_02 21:40

Yeah, I definitely relate to that with me and Amy in our brokenness, nearly getting divorced, now coming into a different season of our life, being able to use what God brought us through to help other couples. Oh, yeah. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 21:52

So so it seems unfair that God allows us to suffer. But we know that Jesus learned obedience to the things he suffered, that he was a Of sorrows. And if there was anybody in acquainted with grief, if there's anybody that lived on the planet who felt the disparity between what ought to be and what is, it was Jesus. Everywhere he looked, he saw brokenness and hatred and greed and prejudice, pride, and arrogance and lust. Like it must have just been crushing to his innocent soul. But he trusted God and surrendered to God. He was describes himself as meek and lowly in heart. And for me, um, Troy, it I tried everything prayer, fasting, deliverance, scripture memorization, all anything I could, counseling, anything I could think of to fix myself. Yeah, yeah, to get fixed. And nothing worked. And so that's when I had to go, okay, God, I get it. I can't change this. I'm yours. You're gonna have to change it. And I think that place of surrender, whether it's with your anger or with your pride, um, with overeating or overspending, whatever people have bipolar disorder. When we come to that place of surrender and saying, God, I'm still yours, Job's words are so profound. He says, even if he slays me, I'm gonna serve him. Like I'm like, I'm I've gone too far to go back. Yeah. Um, like the apostle said to Jesus, like, where are we gonna go? Like, hey, you have the words of life. So uh if if any of our listeners are struggling with something in their life that just seems so unfair, that seems out of their control, something they didn't choose, especially if it's a personal struggle, just know that God is with you in it and understands like God did not shame Job for how he felt. And I never felt like God shamed me for being confused, frustrated, angry, um, just distraught, devastated, you know, whatever, all the mechan, yeah, all the stuff. Right. But like I say, he wants if you're feeling something, and this is what I think God loved about David, whatever David's feeling, he's going, he's taking it to God. He's feeling exuberant and you know, uh excited, he's taking it to God. If he's feeling downcast, anxious, frustrated, he's going to God with it. And that to me, that's you know, the kingdom chaos is such a great name for your podcast because sometimes it is chaotic in our life of faith. When if we get real, if we get honest with ourselves, then there's a lot of things that happen that are really hard, and we need to push through it like you and Amy.

SPEAKER_02 24:49

So uh let's take that a step further and talk about the culture.

Culture And The Path Of Least Resistance

SPEAKER_02 24:52

So the culture you grew up in dealing with, you dealt with, and the culture now is totally different. Oh my word.

SPEAKER_00 24:58

Yeah, it's so horrifying to me because our brains are wired to take the path of least resistance. But any we know that the least the path of least resistance is not a good path. If it's if it's exercise, for instance, sitting on the chair here is like it's pretty comfortable. I think I'll just sit here. Um, the gym may be calling, but that's that there's some resistance there, and I need to push through it if I'm gonna grow, if I'm gonna get stronger. And our culture has encouraged people to avoid anything that makes them uncomfortable, to back away from stress. Um, oh, you don't need that in your life, and and I've experienced in my own life that the the current in our society for cutting people off if you if they make you uncomfortable, if you think that they're controlling or narcissistic or toxic or whatever, it's very bad. And and the if you think about marrying someone of the same gender versus someone of the opposite gender, like if I married a guy, I know how to touch a guy's body with how it feels. I know I can relate to a guy much easier than a woman who's like a foreign creature. Like, what? Like, even though I have a girly brain, my wife will say things I'm like, what? Like, it blows my mind. And so God does not want us to take the path of least resistance. And when you make that path available, why not take it? If you give your kid a chance to eat ice cream or broccoli, what are they gonna take?

SPEAKER_02 26:37

It's a pretty easy choice for them, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:38

Exactly. Like, there's no resistance to ice cream, broccoli, maybe. You know, so it's it's just such a terrible thing. There's actually a book called The Coddling of the American Mind by a couple of academics up in the Northeast, Jonathan Haidt and Greg Lukinoff. And Lukinoff is somebody who struggled with anxiety and depression. And one thing he learned in dealing with those struggles is that the only way to overcome anxiety, for instance, is to push through it, to ex it to not to avoid the things that make you uncomfortable, but to expose yourself to them. Yeah. And if someone is struggling with flying, you're never gonna get over your fear of flying unless you get on the plane. You've got to get on the plane. And so that's what that's what uh just really grieves me is that parents, instead of preparing their child for the road, they want to prepare the road for the child.

SPEAKER_02 27:34

Well, step into that uh because you talked a bit a little bit about if you're dealing with something like that and you're struggling to know that Jesus

How Parents Can Love Without Reinforcing

SPEAKER_02 27:40

loves you. Yeah, what about what about parents if they're dealing? Because in ministry, that's probably what I've dealt with the most is parents dealing with kids that are going through and struggling and confusion. So, what what do you tell parents? How do you deal with that?

SPEAKER_00 27:51

What do you speak into your kids' life? So um the there's several principles to keep in mind. And really the the main one I think is is what parents instinctively know that their kids need to feel loved. Now, back in the day when I was um dealing with it, there were lots of parents who would just, you know, send their kids packing if they're right, if they come out as gay, whatever. And and again, it's really important to distinguish between um a tendency to proclivity and act actually acting on it. Um if you know, if I'm an angry guy, I have to de I have to r first of all recognize that, but then I have to decide, am I gonna let this control me or am I gonna am I gonna find a way to control it? And sexuality I think is the same way. Um there's hardly a guy on the planet that is not gonna find pornography attractive. But somebody needs to say, no, that's not a good thing. That's gonna take m more from you than it ever gives. And but if you don't have somebody speaking the truth, then you're gonna take the easy way. Social media, same thing. Um parents give their kids smartphones without counting the cost and realizing like you're giving child your child access to something that can really harm. Right. Yeah. And like, oh, but everybody else has one, and you know, and again, we we we we confuse uh our purpose as you know, we think about God's plan for your life. Sometimes we just think, oh, you're talking about the 80 years you're on the planet or whatever. No, no, no, no, no. God's plan for your life extends into eternity. And this is just a preparation phase. I I try I I like to tell people to think of it like being in the womb. You know, being in the womb is necessary for you to grow and be be prepared to breathe the breath of of the uh human of earthly atmosphere, yeah. But our time on the planet really is like being in the womb of heaven. Like we're we're getting prepared so that we're mature enough to do what God has for us to do in the next phase.

SPEAKER_02 30:12

Yeah. Tell us I'm gonna get I'm gonna give one resource, not that I'm a professional, but the Bible. Read the gospels, read what Jesus says, John 3.16, how much God loves you and values you. What resources could you give people?

SPEAKER_00 30:25

Yeah, I I I'm meant to look as far as the gender, a transgender issue. I'm not, I don't have one that comes to mind, but there's a book that's been out for a long time called Great Gay Children, Straight Parents. It's by a man named Richard Cohen, who ironically was raised as a Jew. Oh wow. He was in a homosexual relationship with a guy who had been raised a Christian. The guy actually led him to faith in this same-sex relationship. And be as a as a consequence of that, Richard Cohen read the Bible and realized, like, oh shoot, I can't keep doing this. So he left the gay lifestyle and ended up married, having children, and writing this book. But but he says, whoever loves best and longest wins. And he says to parents, look, your kid is gonna be celebrated in the LGBT, you know, in the gay community, and they're gonna feel a lot of love and acceptance. They need to feel that more from you. Not that you accept them acting on that tendency, but that you're able to able to understand that this is something that they they're gonna have to figure out.

SPEAKER_02 31:33

And that goes to every sin that happens. You it you we don't love the sin, we love the person though. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 31:38

And so just being able to go, it's it's just that we we tend to get freaked out by things we don't understand. Right. And for most people, same-sex attraction is is either uh foreign or repugnant. And so people tend to have an emotional reaction to it instead of like going like, okay, well, thank you for telling us. Right. Let's figure out how we can help you know make good choices in light of this feeling. Yeah. And I, you know, I I I've worked with so many guys who um have struggled with this, and I I just tell them, look, you don't have to be attracted to every woman on the planet. Right. You just need one if you want to get married. And a lot of people do want to have a family. And like Jacob and Esau, Esau was married before Jacob left home at probably 40, and it was a little while before Jacob, you know, ever found somebody.

SPEAKER_02 32:36

And when he found them, he still had to wait. Exactly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:39

So, you know, I I like to think of myself as a late bloomer. I was 27 when I got married, and um, you know, my wife and I, neither one ever have had sex with anybody but each other, which we're very grateful for. But dealing with that struggle, I think people in our in our um society somehow think that you should not be deprived of something that you desperately want. But that's that's our life of faith is is desperately wanting to be done with this world and trusting God to stay in it, to stay in the struggle, to not give up the ship.

SPEAKER_01 33:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:19

And even the the rash of suicides, it's it's again, it's a it's a uh people's tendency to want to exit the pain or the struggle instead of seeing the pain and the struggle as the the possibility of growth. Um, and you know, I I hated the fact that I was attracted to other guys, hated, despised it, was ashamed, you know, but now I'm like, wow, God used that thing to bring me closer to him.

SPEAKER_02 33:49

Yeah, there's a lot of things in my life that coming to Christ, I look at and I'm like, God, why did you make me this way? Uh one little it seems like a small thing, but for me it's a big thing is uh my memory is terri terrible. Oh, okay. Uh so whenever I read the Bible, I have to read it over and over and over and over and over again. Uh because or memorizing scripture, I have to do it. Uh if I want to memorize scripture, I have to use the same scripture over and over and over to memorize it. But now looking, I I used to think, man, I'm just cursed, but now looking at it, I'm like, he kind of forced me to read the Bible over and over again, which is something we're supposed to do anyway. And now I look at it as a blessing. I'm like, okay, I understand what you were trying to do in my in my um, I don't know, part of my brokenness. I don't know, whatever you want to call it. But yeah, yeah, exactly. I want everybody to know I'm gonna put a list of Paul's books in the show notes and also uh his TikTok and YouTube and all that stuff. So if you want to connect with him, you can reach out to him, comment on his stuff or whatever you want to do. And if you uh enjoyed hearing what he had to say, then you can hear more of his stuff or see him. And he loves to talk about his uh garden and his trees and goes to Colorado. And I I love watching uh all your videos, so but I will list all that stuff in the show notes. But beautiful. Is there anything that you might want to leave anybody with?

Closing Prayer And Word Candle Company

SPEAKER_00 35:06

Well, I you know, I I'm so grateful for you and the stand you're taking for the kingdom. Yeah. And um I I my prayer for our listeners today is that that you don't avoid the chaos, you don't avoid um getting in there. Um, and and just the way that you're putting yourself out there, I think is a challenge to me and to all of us to really be wholehearted and to take a leap of faith and to trust God. Um, I I I just want to circle back to that thing about being whole-hearted and pursuing God. And I I really believe that um when Peter says, don't be surprised at the fiery ordeal that comes on you to test you as though something strange were happening, that as we mature, God will guarantee that like Job, we experience something that will be so earth-shaking, so devastating, so painful, so confusing, that it will force us, if we're going to go on with God, to get down and dirty with him, to get to enter that that place of just desperation with him. Because in my life, Troy, and I'm I'm sure you've found this too, is that when we get desperate with God, he gets real with us and shows up in a profound way. And that I want that for all of people that are listening to your podcast, that they would find God in the chaos and in the struggle that he would show up. I I love that Jacob's name was changed to Israel. Yeah, it means he wrestles with God. And so uh it's it's not a fun place to be.

SPEAKER_02 36:47

I I love and hate the desert at the same time. The desert is terrible to be in, yeah, but that's where God works, and you see him more there than you do anywhere else. And you see the enemy there, like Jesus did in the end. He was at his weakest at the 40 days, and yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 37:02

So in the wilderness, we we we encounter the enemy and you know, all of his force because he's he wants to take you out, but he doesn't want you into their promised land. But we also encounter God in a powerful way. Yeah, absolutely. Well, you mind closing us out in prayer? I'd love that. All right, let's do it. God, thank you for my brother Troy. Thank you for the kingdom that he's it that he's representing. And I I do pray, God, that we would understand that to get to the place of the deep abiding peace that Jesus promised, we sometimes have to wade through some chaos. We have to hang on in the storm. And when we can't hang on to trust you to hold on to us. And God, I just pray for your great blessing on everybody listening to this podcast, that they would be encouraged and inspired, whatever their struggle, to trust that you will make all things right as we surrender to your will. That you we may not understand now what it's all about, but one day all things will be revealed. And so uh just bless our listeners, bless uh, bless, bless Troy and his family as they embark on this great journey. And we ask for your spirit to be our guide in Jesus' name.

SPEAKER_02 38:20

Amen. Amen. This episode of Kingdom Chaos is brought to you by the Word Candle Company. Darrell Mary started this Christian-based candle company on one simple idea that scent, scripture, and music together can draw you closer to God. Every candle is hand poured in small batches right here in the great state of Texas. Paired with a verse and a song, right on the label, there's a QR code. So you can breathe in the fragrance, read his word, and let the music draw you in. Find them at the Word Candleco.com, the Word Candle Company, where fragrance meets scripture and worship invites his presence.