Why Tour Operators Lose Bookings Without Clarity

What actually makes someone choose your tour over everyone else?

In this episode, we bring on Katja from the Resmark team, who works hands-on with tour operators every day, to break down what’s really happening in the Planning stage. We get into why so many potential guests open multiple tabs, feel overwhelmed, and leave, and how a lack of clarity is usually the reason. 

From a traveler’s perspective and real client experience, we talk about what builds trust, what makes your experience stand out, and how to capture and nurture people who aren’t ready to book yet.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hi, everybody. Welcome to another episode of the Tor Operator Growth Podcast. And I just want to give a quick shout out. Thank you for everybody that is listening to this podcast. We've been putting out weekly episodes for a few months now, and we've grown, and it's been really awesome to see. So if you're getting value from this podcast, let us know. It helps us more than you think. Today is a really fun episode. We are bringing on somebody from inside ResMark. Um, she works directly with tour operators every single day. Katcha is one of our amazing client success managers. She's been with us for nearly two years now. And before that, she worked in the travel industry with Sonoma County Tourism, her local DMO. Since joining ResMark, she's become a huge asset. Our clients love working with her because she really is in the trenches with them, helping them with their websites, their SEO, their ongoing optimizations and overall business growth. So if you ever become a Resmark client, there is a chance Katcha might be your client success manager. And if she isn't, promise you are in good hands. All right. So now we've been talking about the planning stage over the last several episodes. Today we are diving even deeper into that. Remember, this is the moment where somebody has found you, but now they're deciding who to actually go with. Maybe they're comparing you with another tour operator. So we're gonna break this down from both sides. Katcha as a traveler and also from her experience working with tour operators every single day. So, Katcha, let's start somewhere really simple. What does your day to day look like at Resmark and why do you enjoy working with tour operators?

SPEAKER_01 1:46

Yeah, I'm so I'm the, as you said, the client success manager here at Resmark Web. And so I work directly with our tour and activity providers to really just help them, you know, grow their business through website, digital marketing, and everything. Um, so day-to-day, that means um I'm the main point of contact. So I'm working closely with them to understand their goals, you know, whether that's like direct bookings, improving website performance, um, increasing visibility through SEO, um, and then really just coordinating with our internal team to make all of that happen. So I'm collaborating a lot with our designers, developers, um, SEO specialists, making sure everything we're doing is really aligned with their goals. Um, so I spent a lot of time reviewing performance, you know, looking for opportunities and helping clients kind of understand what's working, educating and what's not, and what we can improve. So I guess kind of at the end of my day, um, my role is really about kind of like bridging the gap between like the client's vision and strategy and then kind of the execution needed to get them there.

SPEAKER_03 2:50

Yeah, like you said, you work with kind of all aspects of our team of our company, all except for the development team, maybe not quite as much on the software side. But you're working with designers, SEO very closely, and working with the tour operators themselves very closely all the time, right? So in your experience, where do you see that most users, most people visiting the websites, are getting stuck in that planning phase before they actually book?

SPEAKER_01 3:20

Yeah, that's a good question. I feel like this is something that, you know, we see all the time. People don't actually get stuck on necessarily like choosing a tour. They get stuck maybe a little earlier when they're just trying to figure out what their options are, kind of and who to trust. You know, there's like a lot of tab, I mean, in me, I have 20 tabs open, you know, a lot of comparing and honestly like a lot of like overwhelm, you know, like if a like if a website isn't clear or um it's hard to understand, or really what like makes that experience different, um, people just tend to like kind of move on rather than like digging deeper. Um and I think that like just kind of a lot of that comes from like clarity and confidence. So like people are asking themselves, like, you know, is this the right experience for me? Like, can I trust this company? Are those, you know, so like if those questions aren't answered like really quickly, like I feel like people don't move forward.

SPEAKER_03 4:18

Yeah, there's a book that I've read multiple times called Don't Make Me Think by Steve Krug or Krug. I brought it up on webinar, maybe in the podcast as well. But it's all about user experience and it talks about cognitive dissonance and how as you go throughout anything in life, um, but specifically websites, every single thing that causes dissonance just is an adding stress. And the more of those, the less likely someone is to book or the more likely they are to go to a different website, right? So there's a lot of things that attribute to that. Is there anything specifically that you see with clients who are growing who are seeing success? Is there anything that they're doing that you think is attributing to that success that maybe other companies aren't really doing?

SPEAKER_01 5:10

That's a really good job.

SPEAKER_03 5:11

Or aren't doing a good job at maybe.

SPEAKER_01 5:13

Yeah. Well, and you know, this is actually something I can kind of relate to too. Like, and not just necessarily tour operators, but like, you know, if people who are really who are growing are really clear on um who they are, you know, and and and what they're for. Like what they're not trying to be everything to everyone, you know, they they understand their brand, like what makes them special, what makes their experience special, you know, and and they really kind of like lean into that. Um, and that makes it, you know, really, I think like easier for that like that right customer to say yes, because it's like it just feels like a good fit, you know, when like, you know, like and I guess on the other side, like, you know, the people or operators who struggle, like they're just trying to be, or they're just more generic, you know, their messaging is like trying to appeal to everyone, you know, but in doing that, it doesn't really kind of resonate with anyone, you know. So it's kind of harder for customers to like quickly see, like, oh, this is exactly what I'm looking for, you know. So I think it's like maybe less about having more options and just making, you know, being clear, true to yourself, you know, about like what you do and what you do well. And so that's more like obvious for the right customer or person.

SPEAKER_03 6:29

Yeah, I think when you think of like successful companies, a lot of them started small, right? Amazon.

SPEAKER_02 6:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:34

It sold books. It didn't sell everything initially, right? It got really good at selling books online and then it started adding more to it because now it it knew they knew who they were and what they wanted to do and had a solid plan. So from what I'm hearing, the branding aspect that really you know, the understanding of what you want the business to be is almost the m most important thing that's going to lay the foundation to then creating a good website that's easy to go through because you're gonna be able to speak in a way that you know your people will resonate with. You're gonna be able to have information that's gonna touch them at the right time because you understand exactly who you are as a company.

SPEAKER_01 7:18

Exactly. On your your guiding North Star, you know.

SPEAKER_00 7:23

We actually just did a podcast interview with um somebody. And if you're listening, you probably um listened to that episode, but she actually talked about how she makes her emails very personable, as if she is emailing between her and a friend or whatnot. So she knows her audience well enough to know that she could have that personal level of communication with them. And that's not everybody, right? Your audience might not resonate as much with that, but she knows her audience will resonate with that because when they go on a tour, they want that connection with their tour guide and the tour company. Whereas sometimes maybe a larger tour operation, that isn't the kind of experience that they are trying to give to their customers. So everybody's different.

SPEAKER_03 8:10

It also doesn't come off out authentic, right? I talked about SeaWorld to someone recently because I was maybe gonna go to SeaWorld when I was in California. Like the emails they send me are not personal. And if they did send me a personal feeling ones, they wouldn't feel authentic because I know they don't care about me. But a smaller operation that you know is more intimate experience, like it does fit well. It it can be authentic, even if you're not actually being authentic, it might feel more authentic than a lot of different types of opportunities out there.

SPEAKER_00 8:46

It's more believable as well from a smaller operation. Kachet, let's take a step back from a traveler's perspective because you've been all over. You just recently went to Japan and you know, you've have a a lot of good travel experience. What are you personally looking for before you're deciding between different experiences or different tours? What do you gravitate towards?

SPEAKER_01 9:15

Gosh, yeah. So, I mean, you know, even like working in this industry, like, you know, I booked the same tours the same way everybody else does. You know, I'm starting with a lot of options. I'm on social media scrolling and doing a bit of research and really just trying to narrow it down quickly, I guess. Um, but yeah, I just I keep going back to that. Like I keep looking for something that feels like a great fit, not just like a good tour or or whatever, but really like matches the kind of experience I want and who I am. Um, so trying to find myself fitting into that, you know, like um, so I'm paying attention to like how it's described, the tone, the photos, you know, like does it feel how does it feel? Is it more adventurous, more relaxed, that kind of thing, you know? Um, and I want to be able to get to that kind of quickly. Like if I have to work too hard to figure that out, like I to find myself, like picture myself in that experience, I probably won't, you know. And then like as far as trust goes, I think reviews are a big one. I think they're really important, you know, not just the rating, because like, of course, everybody has a bad day and there's gonna be some, you know, one stars out there, but like actually reading a few and seeing if people like describe the experience, you know, in a we in a way that feels consistent, I guess. Um like good, like authentic photos help a lot too, you know, not you know, overly polished, you know, but like actual real photos of people also sway me, honestly. Um just I like to see real people doing things, I guess. But yeah, and then of course, clarity, like right. So like when you go to a website, it's gotta be easy to use and clean. And of course, I'm looking at a ton of websites every day, so maybe I'm a little more critical, but like if I can't figure out like what's expected like right away, then I'm like, ah, this is too hard. It's gotta be easy, you know, and fun to look at, you know.

SPEAKER_03 11:07

Um, especially since most likely what you're gonna do is gonna be something fun. Yeah, like you don't wanna have to make it so hard to go do that fun thing. You want it to be easy. So I want to ask a question, kind of split you in two and have the traveler part of you and then the client success manager part of you kind of answer this. So it'll be kind of two answers. But when you look at websites, um, client websites, tourism, tour booking websites, what's the biggest difference between the ones that convert and the ones that don't? So from the traveler side of this, in your mind, like what's the one, maybe two most impactful things that help you actually book with that company? And then from the client success side, what's you know, what are people doing that's really helping people convert?

SPEAKER_01 12:01

Yeah, gosh, that's a good question. Maybe so, okay. So from the traveler side, I feel like the ones that are just um really clear right away, you know, you land on the page and you know exactly what the experience is, who it's for, why it's worth it, you know, there's no confusion. It's just like, you know, they are super clear about who they are and I can I can imagine myself there, you know. Um and then maybe kind of on the client success side, I think um they do like a really good job of like reinforcing trust throughout, you know, like really strong reviews, great photos, just really clear details. Um, everything's like real consistent and professional. So you're not really like second guessing your decision, I guess. It's hard to separate. So it's hard to take that hat on or off, you know. So they go both hand in hand. But um, but yeah, I think, you know, for me personally, it's just it's got to be a good fit from for my, you know, my personality type of thing, you know. I can just envision myself doing whatever it is, you know. But then I get more technical. I'm like, oh, this, you know, these photos are wonderful. Oh, look at that review. That, you know, they did a really good job, you know, at this type of thing.

SPEAKER_03 13:19

I don't this just popped in my head. I don't know if I've told this story before, but I had a guy that knocked on my door. This is during like election season, and he handed me a flyer saying, Hey, vote for me. It was the guy that was running for for office. And I looked down at the flyer, and without even thinking, I told him, How can I vote for you when your picture's blurry? And like I was dead serious about it, but like that's how I feel when I go to websites. Like, if you have bad imagery, they're blurry, the like things just don't look right. Like, how do I how am I gonna trust that you're actually good at what you do? It's that same kind of mentality of building that trust through all the little things, not just the big things as well, but the little things matter.

SPEAKER_01 14:05

They do. They all come together. You know, your website's like your front door, you know. So like when someone comes to your house, like it's that's that first impression, you know. It's gotta be gotta be clean and looking good. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:20

So let's say a tour operator has all of these things in place. Um, they have the trust factors, they have incredible imagery, but we're still a lot of people who visit the website, they do not book a tour right away. So I know Katya, you're working with a lot of clients with this specific thing is capturing emails and capturing those people who maybe aren't ready to book and maybe we're not running retargeting ads on Facebook or whatnot. Where do you tell tour operators to start? And I know we've worked on this together, and it's always fun to figure out ways, you know, we could capture emails. Where would you, what advice would you give a tour operator? Let's say they're your client you're working with. We want to capture more emails. Where should they start?

SPEAKER_01 15:05

Yeah, it it definitely does seem overwhelming at first, you know, but I think the key is just kind of starting, right? And you can always get better. But like, you know, and you don't necessarily need something super complex, right? So like maybe the easiest place is to um start by adding like a clear kind of email, relevant email capture on your website, like especially like on your high traffic pages, you know, your home pages, your tour pages, that sort of thing. But but I think the main key or the most important thing is can't just be join our newsletter. You know, that's not usually compelling enough. Um you got to think about like what would be actually useful for someone, you know, useful enough in that planning phase, you know, in that phase where they're like maybe it's a short guide, you know, local tips. Um even just helping them choose like the right tour, you know, it should, it has to feel like this is worth giving my email for because that's you know, of course, people don't necessarily want to give away the keys, you know. That's that's a lot, you know, to give access to someone's inbox. So it definitely has to have enough value, you know. So definitely just not like a newsletter. It's gotta be something tangible that they can can use, useful, you know.

SPEAKER_00 16:20

What kind of a lead? Because I know like you're working with a lot of clients on different types of, you know, um lead magnets that were putting on their websites. Do you ever notice that a certain lead magnet works better than the others? Whether that's a pop-up on the website, or maybe it's a more interactive quiz when you're meeting with clients because you do on a monthly basis. Do you ever um find that some are more successful with the amount of emails that they're getting coming in?

SPEAKER_01 16:51

That's a good question. I feel like the ones that really do provide, just provide the value are the ones that are are doing well. Um and especially, you know, like you, like as a tour operator, you know your area and your business so well. So anytime you can give little nuggets of information to people, I think that's what they're really looking for. Because they don't necessarily, they can go buy to, you know, a book about the destination or whatever, but they really want like a friend to show them around, you know. So like if you can kind of package all of those little tidbits somehow, I think that's that's what really is successful.

SPEAKER_03 17:26

Yeah, I also think most people, they don't enjoy shopping around.

unknown 17:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:32

I know I personally don't. Like I open a ton of tabs, I look at a bunch of companies, but at the end of the day, if I like could just go to one website or AI and have it tell me, like, do this and I'll buy it for you. Like, that's what I want to do. I don't want to have to think about it all. And so these guides, these quizzes, they're really a way when done right. One, you have to provide value, I think, before the email request. If your website's not providing value, why do I care about your guide? Why do I care about your newsletter? If the quiz doesn't provide me any value as I'm taking the quiz and at the end of the quiz before I give you my email, like why am I gonna give you my email? Like, you haven't given me anything, you're just trying to capture my email. But if you're able to give me information that's gonna make it so cool, I'm I'm planning a tour, but now I also can like plan where I'm gonna eat in the area and plan other things to do. I don't have to go and search that now because you're kind of telling me. In my opinion, that helps like a ton with really building that trust, but also just making it easier for me throughout the process. So I don't have to keep searching for everything else. I can kind of base my trip now off of what you're telling me I should do. Right. Um so with that, like tour operators. Oh, go ahead, Nikki.

SPEAKER_00 18:56

I was just gonna say, um, Katya, when you're meeting with clients, is this something that you strategize with them whenever you're um having those strategy meetings? Are you talking about? I know we don't as a company like create the lean magnet necessarily. We might give you some resources and whatnot, but when you're sitting with the client, are you kind of going through options and best practices? What does that look like?

SPEAKER_01 19:21

Yeah, you know, like I think um we, you know, we are not just necessarily like creating those emails and so forth, but like definitely I think people kind of tend to, you know, uh be promotional, over promotional too quickly, you know, like book now, book now before that person's even really ready, you know, or maybe they're too broad, you know, and they don't speak enough to what that person is actually interested in. So maybe just kind of slowing things down, you know, um, and just giving them enough at that stage, I think is what we talk a lot about.

SPEAKER_02 19:54

Yeah, I love that.

SPEAKER_03 19:56

Sorry, Greg, give me a lot of people. One of the hard things too is like Yeah. Especially with websites, you need to have the information for everyone at every path that they're coming through, right? This might be my seventh time on your website, so having a clear book now on the homepage is like awesome because I can go straight to where I want to go. But having it too much in your face while I'm just trying to learn about your company, like every CTA, all call every call to action is a book now button. Like, it doesn't help me learn about your tour guides or your operation or this or that, and it's kind of off-putting as well. Cause I I'm not able to dive into the pages as easily as maybe a better layout would help me with. Um so we kind of deviate a little bit from leads, but going back to that just real quickly, tour operators, they build their list, they're getting a bunch of emails, whatever. What are the most effective ways to take that list and turn them into bookings? I know we've been kind of talking about them a little bit, some of the deliverables, but what could they be doing after they capture that email to really turn them into bookings? And what have you seen that is actually working?

SPEAKER_01 21:07

That's a good question. Even before we capture those emails, I it would be really awesome. And this is maybe something you have to set up ahead of time. This, but you know, being able to segment them a little bit too, like being able to, you know, let's say, you know, if they're on a certain page what they're interested in, you know, or um if they've booked a tour, what tour that was, or if they have something on the forum that you can segment them is really handy. So you can get a little bit more information about those people so that you're not really delivering the same thing to everyone, I think is really good. Um, but then um, you know, of course, there's the usual newsletters, keeping them engaged, of course, those are important things. But um just sending sending information about, you know, up to date what you're doing, you know, what you're doing throughout the year. Um that's a good question. Do you have any other ideas, Nikki?

SPEAKER_00 22:00

Yeah, well, what you just said about updates about the company. I got an amazing email in my inbox with somebody. I'm not going to say who it is just yet, because I got him on the podcast. Um, and the email was so inspiring and touching. And I was like, wow, this was really well written. And it was basically the story of the company. And I think there's always a place and time for those sort of emails. And this was the right time. And I think that when you put that email inside, you know, the right consumers or prospects in box, it can make a difference and allow them to build that trust or decide or allow them to decide that you're the tour offer they're going to go with when they're ready to make that trip. Um, so I think that having different emails and different, you know, situations are really important. You have your monthly newsletters, you have your maybe weekly uh value emails that you're sending and you're just trying to provide valuable information because maybe you released a new blog post that has um a packing list that you want to share with people or trip itinerary that you just released. And it's not constantly selling all the time. It is just providing value. And then when the time comes, they will be ready to book your tour. And you can drop subtle hints, you know, to book when you're ready, book this tour. We are building out some emails for one of our clients. Um, it's not one of Kotcha's clients, it's uh Heidi, our other um coach. And he is doing, we're building out weekly, no, sorry, monthly newsletters for him. But on top of that, we're building additional emails that really just opt people in to want to receive more information. So yeah, there's a lot of different things that we can do, but I think it's segmenting the list and sending it to the right place, the right time. And you can't really lose unless you have a really high unsubscribe rate, just keep sending emails and keep doing what you're doing because you own that data, you can at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_01 24:12

Yeah, that's one thing that you really control. You know, as much as Google and search engines and AI and everything is changing, like you control that. So it's um it's really important to keep it active.

SPEAKER_03 24:24

Yeah. So if you got one thing out of that portion, from from my opinion, it's segmenting. Because if you're sending me emails about something I'm not interested in and never showed interest in, it's probably not gonna hit as well as if you're sending me information about the trip that I was looking at or the thing that I signed up for, right? So also knowing your brand, like we mentioned earlier. Like what is it that you want people to understand about your business? How do you want them to feel about your business? I'm working on a website right now in Canmore in Banff National Park. I've been there personally already, and it's like it was top of my bucket list. So when I went, like it was one of the best places I've ever been. I want to go back every day. And it's like working on the website, I'm thinking as a user, like what inspired me to even go here? And so newsletters and information coming from a company like that that's just like taking you to a place that is beyond beautiful, like that's an opportunity to really inspire people through your emails, right? Inspire them, set the stage for what they're gonna view without giving it away because there's no way that you can. Like, I've seen a million pictures of Marine Lake, but when you walk over the the rocks and actually see it in person, it's just like, wow, this is so it's like knowing your brand because that's gonna be very different than one of our clients' funny bus. We just launched their website recently, and they're very different, right? They're not gonna send some very inspirational you know emails about whatever. It's literally a bus that's like a comedy tour.

SPEAKER_02 26:11

You're gonna be dropping jokes, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:13

So it's gonna have a very different feel to it. And so really understanding the voice is what's then going to tie everything in and get people to really make that decision. Maybe your voice turns them off, but if you're good at it, most likely it's gonna if that's something they're interested in, they're gonna really like it. So um moving on to kind of further down the funnel as we're ending the planning portion of the the customer cycle and we move into that booking experience. That's the next stage that we're gonna be talking about. Uh Katya, what have you ever had an experience where you were looking to book something and there was like something very specific or something that just really led you away from booking with that company?

SPEAKER_01 27:07

I recently I went to um Tokyo, I went to Japan, and um it's funny because we wanted to do like a tea ceremony, so kind of a touristy thing, you know. Um definitely not something that locals would do, but I just felt it, you know, was would be a cool experience, you know. And um what came like what came it down, what it came down to is really just like the ease of booking. So this is totally foreign country, like I don't speak Japanese, you know, so I it was on OTAs, I was actually on get your guide and so forth. I did try to go to some of their native websites because I would rather have you know the money go direct to them, but it was really hard for me to navigate. So like that, you know, like that combination of just like clarity and ease is like what really made me kind of book the tour in the end. No.

SPEAKER_00 27:58

And I wonder too, is you said that most locals won't be, you know, was the website in English? Was it in Japanese? What what was the primary language on that on that website?

SPEAKER_01 28:11

It was Japanese, yeah, which was hard being translated. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:16

But with that, you know, the opportunity for them there is probably to have a a not a second website, but a whether it's a plug-in or whatever that allows it to be easily converted to English without having to be clunky and it still be a good user experience because a lot of the people going to those tea ceremonies are going to be either from a different country or English speaking or something. So you also have to think just making sure you're providing a good user experience for your ideal customer. Now, if their ideal customer is a Japanese market, absolutely. You know, it doesn't make too big of a difference, but you're missing out a lot on a lot of people who would have booked but found it a bit confusing. And you're tech savvy. So imagine people who are traveling, you want as tech savvy, you know.

SPEAKER_03 29:08

So I always think about that when I go through booking processes or just on websites, like, man, this is so hard to use. And it's like, yeah, this is literally what I do every day. And if this is hard for me, I can't imagine like my dad using this or my mom or their neighbor or whatever. Like, how are they ever gonna figure this out? Maybe they're more patient because I'm also way less patient because of the knowledge I have and stuff, but maybe that's the difference.

SPEAKER_01 29:34

That's true.

SPEAKER_00 29:35

I there or there's no like end in sight. I was on a website yesterday. I don't even remember what it was for. Yesterday feels like three years ago at this point. But there was no like I had to either submit something or do something. I can't I literally can't remember, but I do remember being frustrated and I couldn't, there's no button to finish. There was no button to submit. There was no, there was nothing. And I was like, am I going crazy? What is happening here? Uh I I don't feel dumb, but you know, maybe I don't know. But come to find out it wasn't there. Um, so yeah, make it really easy for people. As Greg says, if your grandma, your grandma should be able to do it too. Wait, well, how do you say it, Greg?

SPEAKER_03 30:25

Yeah, all right. I don't know exactly how I say it, but I literally used to test, like take things to my mom, who's not tech savvy, she'll admit it, and say like Well, yeah, if your grandma, but she never hadn't really used a computer much, so I use my mom. But it's like I would create prototypes, working prototypes, clickable, and I'd go to my mom and my dad and my wife essentially, usually, and ask them to use it. And if any of them had problems with it, then I knew they'd probably gonna have problems with it. Versus going to you know, my coworkers who do the same thing and being like, use this, they're gonna have a very different view because they're gonna go into the technical side or something more not as user-friendly. So whatever you it is you you're working on, I'll emphasize this like test with people. Don't just like create something with AI that's a local guide of your area and then publish it. Like have friends read it, have send it to someone that's gonna come on a tour and be like, hey, I just created this. Like, you want to take a look? Is this helpful? People are more helpful willing to help and give feedback because they want their experience to be better, but they also want, if they like your company, they want you to be successful. So don't be afraid to ask people for help on that type of stuff as well.

SPEAKER_00 31:47

You know what too? Ask other tour operators. There's so many Facebook communities, whether it's through the Tour Preneur, we have our own Facebook group. Um, Josh Oakes from the Sunshine Tribe has a group, and there's so many others out there, but they are there are a bunch of tour operators in those groups asking, hey, can you check out my website? Hey, what improvements do I need to make? Other tour operators are willing to help other tour operators and we're willing to help. And and so ask for help and ask for people to test. Most people are going to say yes. You're going to get people to raise their hand and be willing to give you some good feedback. Um, Katcha, if somebody listening um feels like their marketing is all over the place, let's pretend that they're a client of yours and you're meeting with them for the first time. Their marketing is all over the place. What's the first thing you think they should fix in this planning phase?

SPEAKER_01 32:45

That's a really good one. Honestly, I would start with clarity. You know, before you start thinking about your website or your emails or anything, you know, you have to be really clear on who your experience is for and what makes it special, you know, not in like a generic way, but a really specific, like honest way. Like I think that's so important. A lot of like the all over the place marketing usually comes from, you know, people just trying to appeal to too many people at once, you know. So the messaging gets really broad, the website tries to say everything, and then kind of in the end, it just really doesn't land with anyone. So if you can get like really clear on like who your ideal customer is, you know, what they really care about, like what makes your experience the right fit for them. Um, everything just kind of gets easier. Then your website, your content, your ads kind of all follow that guiding principle, you know. So I think that first step or fix or whatever really isn't like it's always internal, you know, it's not a tactical thing. It's like, it's like stepping back and making sure like you actually know like what you're trying to say and like who you're trying to say it to. Because once that's clear, like, you know, the rest of it, it just comes into focus and becomes more effective.

SPEAKER_03 34:04

This is where a quiz could be super helpful. I just had this thought. Like, we have a client that we we have multiple clients we've done quizzes for, but one's Whitewater Raping Company. And it asks, like, as you're going through it, you know, what type of experience are you looking for? Right? Are you looking for something more calm and relaxing, or are you like me and want just as many rapids as possible and potentially get thrown out of the raft? And like as it's asking these different questions, hopefully they're using that information to help drive the emails and messaging that's going out to these specific people, right? Because if you're just sending out something that's like, hey, you filled out this quiz, we have your email, here's some information about us. Cool. But if I got an email and I said I want action, and I got an email that was like a different tone, even than something that a you know, a a scenic float might have. Like, I want them to be talking about like this is gonna be the most awesome experience. The chances of you getting thrown out of the raft is like a seven out of ten. You're gonna be just hummed by white water, and it's gonna be the best day of your life, right? Like that that might scare away someone that doesn't want that, but I literally just filled out some something saying I want it to be a little bit more than a lot of people. If you talk to me that way, I'm gonna be like, oh my gosh, this sounds awesome. Versus so many sites I land on. It's just all generic in the sense of we have this tour and this tour and this tour, and you can do this, this, this, and this, and it has a class five rapid or has class three rapid or class one rapid, but it's like all the same. And it might not be boring, but it's like there is that ability to talk differently about each tour, I think, with a little bit different voice, depending on what you're offering, and if you do have option to kind of have things that are just really adrenaline focused versus not, then don't be afraid to talk differently about them, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_00 36:09

Yeah. And you have different personas in your ICP, in your ideal customer profile. And Katya, just touching on what you said, your biggest advice is to create clarity. I would tell tour operators, if you don't know where to start, create your ideal customer profile. We've developed a system at ResMark where we do it for all of our clients. Um, but it's kind of a mix of looking at your Google Analytics, if you have that, looking at every single review you've ever gotten, just detailing all this information, putting it in AI and allowing it to produce something obviously based off of your own research and what the data is sharing with us, and just taking that information and utilizing it to your advantage. And then you could build your website copy around that and whatnot. So to create that clarity around your messaging and then eventually start segmenting your lists and everything like that, make sure you have that ICP in place, that ideal customer profile established, and you know what kind of language is going to resonate with your perfect customers, we'll say, because there's different personas within your ICP. So wonderful. Okay, that is another episode of the Tour Operator Growth Podcast. Katcha, we enjoyed having you on here so much. You are an incredible client success manager, and now you're an incredible podcast guest. So we hope that we didn't scare you away too much and you'd come back on. But um, you provide, I just want to tell everybody listening, Katcha provides so much value to her clients. She meets with all of our website SEO clients monthly and she strategizes with them and helps them think of you know best practices and marketing strategies to really help them uh level up. She cares so much about her clients. So if you ever come on board, you'll definitely at least meet Katcha, whether she's your success manager or not, and you will be in good hands. So all right, that's another episode. Please like, subscribe, and really just give us feedback. If you could just shoot me an email or something saying that you are enjoying our podcast episodes, please do because it then tells my boss that we can continue doing these. And by my boss, I mean Greg. So bye, everyone.