Consistency and Habits

In this episode of Shift Happens, we explore consistency, discipline, and habit building, and why they’re key to long-term success in health, fitness, and personal growth. Clem shares her journey from struggling with gym consistency to building sustainable habits, highlighting how mindset and identity play a crucial role.

We break down the difference between willpower and discipline, why desire drives consistency, and how building simple systems and micro habits leads to lasting results. We also discuss common blockers such as stress, perfectionism, and unrealistic expectations, and why flexibility, a “plan B,” and small rewards can help you stay on track.

If you’ve ever struggled to stay consistent, this episode offers practical strategies to build better habits, stay motivated, and create sustainable change without needing to be perfect.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:06

It's good to see you. Haven't seen you since last week. Um, as I was saying, happy Mother's Day. Thank you. You had a good Mother's Day on Sunday. So today, so today's session, I was trying to find an interesting segue into it. The only one I could find is that it's got um sis in the word, as in sisters. Um but oh I thought you meant sisters in like as in I guess no, as in S S I S. Um I guess this is something that I think is hyper relevant to both of us, and it's about consistency. And I think the difficulty of consistency, and I think what people kind of what they perceive consistency to be, or how they find it hard to maintain. And I guess there's so many ways we can kind of tackle this. There's actually so much I want to talk about this. I'm I've actually put some notes down. I hope you don't mind. Um I think that's a good idea.

SPEAKER_00 1:12

It's a good topic. I like that you came up with that.

SPEAKER_01 1:14

But I think so. I think for me, I think why this is such an important topic is because I think personally speaking, I have always struggled with consistency, and I have always kind of I think attributed it to the fact that I'm ill-disciplined, like I don't have discipline. Okay, and that was always something that I believed about myself, and you know, you can attest to the fact that like for years I was really poor at going to the gym. Um, it was not something I just didn't do consistently, it was something I kind of dabbled in and out and in and out. And it's only until I would say like my late 20s, actually, probably when I was in Hong Kong, when suddenly I started getting into it. And I think it changed when my mindset around it changed. So how does so what do you think consistency is? Oh, what do I think consistency is? So I think consistency is showing up or doing something day after day in a re somewhat repetitive kind of way, but over a long period of time.

SPEAKER_00 2:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:29

I think that's consistency, but how you build it and maintain it, I think those are two really hard things. And I don't know about you, but I hear a lot in my practice is oh, I'm just not good at being consistent. I'm just I just don't have the discipline. So I think the first fallacy or the first uh point I'd like to cover is uh does consistency have anything to do with discipline?

SPEAKER_00 2:59

One thing I'd say is uh consistency, I think, uh uh can show up in two in two ways, like in good ways. You can be good consistent and you can be bad consistent. Okay. Because I think like you say, is repetitive things that you do over and over again and that you kind of s nearly automate, not necessarily completely, but nearly automate. Yeah. And then I'd say the bad consistency is about, I suppose, rewriting that, like you know, removing like untangling that consistency and then rebuilding it towards something you actually want to do. So I think there has to be an element of desire so that you can stay consistent. Okay. Expand. So I'm just trying to think like, is it linked to your you said uh to willpower?

SPEAKER_01 3:52

Yeah, discipline, willpower. I hear that all the time. You know, I just don't have enough willpower.

SPEAKER_00 3:57

Suppose willpower kind of gets the motion going, but discipline kind of keeps it on track. Like as in if you if you think of it as a car, willpower is like turning the engine on. You have to want to, you know.

SPEAKER_01 4:12

I think I guess the way I'm seeing it in my mind's eye is more consistency requires discipline. But for discipline to happen again and again, you need a system. Okay. And I think this is something that I think when people come to see like a nutritionist or a coach or a dietitian, I think they they look for the advice, but they fall short at setting up the system.

SPEAKER_00 4:41

Yeah, which I suppose they want the support to do that.

SPEAKER_01 4:45

Yeah, exactly. And I think, but this is where it can sometimes get really grey because someone might come to you or me for some sort of advice, but we have to get into the nitty-gritty of like the implementation, right? Like, how are you gonna make that be something that's continuous, like day in, day out, day in, day out?

SPEAKER_00 5:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:04

Because that's when you start seeing progress and results.

SPEAKER_00 5:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:09

I mean, have you do you is it something that you struggle with, consistency?

SPEAKER_00 5:13

I think I'm quite flexible with things. So in the sense that like if I know what my aim is and what my trying to achieve, then I and I know how to get there. So yes, I can put systems in place quite easily, but then I don't really put so much pressure on myself that I just let I know because you need flexibility so that life happens. Consist basically consistency can also occur in an environment that where you introduce flexibility because then it means you don't have to do it, you you can let yourself, you know, not be too regimented by it. Yeah. And that makes it more realistic that you can have a consistent outcome, I suppose. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_01 5:58

Yes, and I think that definitely supports that notion of getting out. So I think some of the big trip-ups, right, for people when they do try and set up these systems, is that they feel like they need to be perfect at it. Yeah. And it has to be 100% of the time this thing happens. And you know, it's that classic perfectionism and all or nothing kind of fallacy. And I guess what you're saying is around well, if you accept that there's gonna be some cases when it doesn't happen, then I and it still doesn't mean that you have to give up that that new habit or that new system that you've put put into place.

SPEAKER_00 6:42

But I suppose actually, if you think about it, I've just think I've just this made me think like everyone in a way is consistent about something. Is it is it's just if you think about it, we're all consistent. Either we're consistently failing, consistently setting ourselves to fail, consistently not doing things we want to do, consistently thinking negative things, or we're consistently trying to do better, consist consistently achieving our goals. You know, like this is where it goes down to like the positive consistency and negative consistency. Yeah. Now the ones that are doing are using it to their benefit are quote unquote achieving more. And the ones who are not achieving it to their benefit are quote unquote failing. So if you think about it, we all are consistent. It's what kind of consistently consistency are you working with?

SPEAKER_01 7:35

That's actually really interesting because then actually, or I think a really important message from that is we all have the capacity to develop consistency.

SPEAKER_00 7:45

Yeah. Because try and tell me someone you know, or someone a situation where someone isn't consistent. There are few and far between.

SPEAKER_01 7:53

There probably are some, but I mean, unless someone is ill or you know, whatever.

SPEAKER_00 7:58

But yeah, I mean, if in a way it shows up in everyone's lives.

SPEAKER_01 8:03

There is a there is some form of consistency in everybody's life, whether it's having food every day or drinking water every day, or no, I'm not even talking about that.

SPEAKER_00 8:13

I'm just saying more outcome-based. If you think about anyone you know, there has to be some consistency into in what they're doing. It might not be the good kind, but therefore it's about trying to switch it from um from being the bad kind consistency to the good kind consistency. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:32

Yeah. I mean, you could even, yeah, you could also even look at it like that. I would even say go back to the basics. Like there are things that you have to do just on a consistent basis just to live. So even if you want to go back to the fundamentals, everyone has the capacity to do something with a form of consistency, which means that we are all capable of it to a certain extent.

SPEAKER_00 8:55

Complete agreed.

SPEAKER_01 8:56

Given the right circumstances and the right systems putting into place.

SPEAKER_00 9:00

Okay. So I suppose if that's a starting point, is to try and tell someone if they're struggling with what they're trying to like, let's call it the good consistency versus the bad consistency. Yeah. They're trying to get to the good consistency, then maybe I'm lit I'm thinking about it now, but maybe you try and say to them if you if you know you can do this XYZ and it's not working for you, then surely you realize you you know you can do the good consistency. Yeah. And so it's about first of all, even acknowledging like it isn't actually out of reach at all. Because then people say, But I haven't, I can't be consistent, I'm not consistent, uh I'm not disciplined, etc. So you say to them, no, no, you are, but you're just in the wrong direction. Exactly. So try and sway it, yeah, sway it to the positive, the good direction.

SPEAKER_01 9:55

We've talked about consistency, discipline, almost like the the sort of um, what would you say, the the intellectual piece about what it is and how it works and who's capable of it in a sense. So I think you've just done a really good segue into okay, how do we then implement it? Right? How do we you know get someone to build something in a consistent kind of way?

SPEAKER_00 10:25

Well, then if we're talking about it from what I suppose then it's first of all, what are they trying to achieve? So the desire, yeah, then it's about figuring out in their situation, in their lives, in their um uh routine, where does that fit in, and then how and then go even one step, one one kind of level deeper and go, how do you implement that? And that's the bit that is in unique to everyone.

SPEAKER_01 10:59

I guess it's starting with that end goal piece, the building blocks that kind of work to that. Um and then starting with that micro change that starts.

SPEAKER_00 11:10

Exactly. And I do think there has to be like coming back to the smelly breath, like if you don't want to have smelly breath, you'd just tell me something. But I'm just saying, like it let's also not overcomplicate it. If you want to, if it's a really deep desire to uh be a clean, tidy person, yeah, then you have to tidy up your room or your home or you know declutter, etc. So it it has to be a desire. It can't just be like a yeah, yeah, I'd like to be, but I realistically I'm not.

SPEAKER_01 11:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:44

Because if you have that already in your mindset, then the act of putting all these implementations in is probably not gonna work for you. Yeah, that's true. That I I do think they're definitely, and that's where the identity produces. I mean, it gets called identity, I'm calling it desire, I suppose. But yes. Oh, interesting. Yeah, so you're kind of interchanging those two things. Okay, I think so. I think so, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:07

And then I do think that's a really important piece, right? It's the identity, and again, going back to a bit to the James Clear, you know, atomic habits. But if you become just someone who is athletic or who does exercise, you're much more than likely to develop that routine and that habit. And again, irrespective of if it's good weather or you feel tired or whatever, that's just something that you do.

SPEAKER_00 12:35

I'm interested to think of blockers to consistency.

SPEAKER_01 12:40

Blockers to consistency.

SPEAKER_00 12:42

Can you think of anything apart from like physical health? Let's say like actually dying, or you know, that would be a bit of a blocker. I'm not consistent anymore. That would be a massive blocker to consistency. When are you consistently dead? You're consistently dead. I mean, it's a form of consistency. I suppose it is. See, I tell you, I'm telling you, it shows up in everyone, consistency, even in dead people, consistency. Name me someone who hasn't who isn't consistent. That's gonna be a really good one to think about now.

SPEAKER_01 13:19

Even when you're dead, you're consistently dead.

SPEAKER_00 13:22

Exactly. That's the takeaway. The ultimate form of consistency. One habit perfectly every day. And 10 out of 10. Exactly. Um yeah, so I'm trying to think, what are the actual barriers to consistency? Because someone will say to you, no, no, no, no, no, I really, really want to lose weight. I promise you, it's like desperate for my wedding. It's you know, blah, blah, blah. I've got all of these motivations, but I'm not, it's not working for me, this system. So they're gonna bring up what kind of barriers can you think of that are coming up?

SPEAKER_01 13:55

Uh top one on the list, stress. Stress is something that really throws people off. And I think because stress, people then revert back to comfort. And if you've just started on like a new habit journey and it hasn't really ingrained itself like in a deep kind of way, you revert back.

SPEAKER_00 14:16

Yeah, yeah, that makes sense because in your stress um format, as it were, I suppose, in your stress body, you are just surviving, and therefore you have to remove all of the novelty, the experimental stuff, like you you go back to your your you know, core you know, ingrained automatic things that you do to keep alive, basically, to stay alive. And I think if you've just started on this like fitness, you haven't automated it, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:47

You haven't automated it.

SPEAKER_00 14:48

But so then, yeah, so you go back to a form of safety. Exactly. In a consistent kind of way.

SPEAKER_01 14:54

Again, we established it consistently.

SPEAKER_00 14:58

If someone says to you, I am not a consistent person, say, hang on a sec.

SPEAKER_01 15:02

But I think that's a really I mean, I'm definitely gonna be using that one.

SPEAKER_00 15:05

Because also I think then it uh you take it off the pedestal of it's really hard to be consistent and it's really, you know, it's only certain people who can achieve consistency. And actually, if you start saying to it, no, no, you are consistent, you're consistently having negative thoughts, you're consistently putting yourself down, you're consistently telling yourself you're not capable. Those are that mechanism is there. Exactly. And so I think already identifying that, um, then they're like, oh yeah, actually, yeah, I guess I am. I'm consistently unhappy, I'm consistently, you know, uh complaining about something. Okay, so you do have consistency.

SPEAKER_01 15:42

Or consistently like not going to the gym. There you go. There you go. I think another one is um people who have false expectations that they need to do this perfectly. So I think and at the first sign of quote unquote failure slash not doing that habit that they've told themselves that they were gonna do it, having that and I, you know, what I call the fuck it moment, which is like, I'll throw the baby out with the bathtub, or you're like, well, I failed once, so no point trying again. Like that's done and dusted. And I think there's it's if you know, dropping off and not doing something once is totally fine. It's normal, even. Ideally, you don't want to not do it twice because then that becomes the new habit of avoiding doing that thing that you wanted to do.

SPEAKER_00 16:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:34

And so, you know, it's really telling yourself and not not overly obsessing over the the times that you didn't manage to do it. Just if it didn't happen for whatever reason, just being like, okay, that wasn't the day for it to happen, move on next. And if and in a way, teaching yourself to get back on on track of whatever you're trying to do isn't itself a muscle that you exercise. Like, okay, it can happen and it has happened and it'll likely happen again. This is how I get back on it. And then you do that. And actually, I think you're absolutely right. You do well, you have to start with the notion that it's never gonna be perfect.

SPEAKER_00 17:14

I think you definitely have to have flexibility because um not every day we feel the same. Yes. So when it especially when it comes to say m uh exercise, meditation, yeah, uh, or thing with women hormones.

SPEAKER_01 17:28

My gosh, I mean coming up to my period, like going to the gym is hard to do.

SPEAKER_00 17:33

So therefore, I think there's the idea that if you introduce the concept of flexibility when you're t telling people about it, yeah, discussing it with them, already it's like, okay, so consistency doesn't necessarily mean a hundred percent of the time. It means you know 75, 75, 80. I also think I I was thinking just now, what I do if I miss something, I just let it pass and I'm like, okay. It doesn't mean it I detach any importance to it. Exactly. I have actually not meditated for the last two days, and it just made me think of that. Like, it doesn't mean that I'm not on a roll. Yeah, it just means I haven't done it. Yeah. That's all I'll say to about it. That's all literally all I think about it. And then I'll go, okay, I'll just put it, get back onto it. But I think if you start saying to yourself, I suppose I do understand, if you're starting something new that seems uncomfortable and you stop doing it for a few days or a day or so, you then start saying to yourself, Oh, I'm a bit crap. Yeah, you start judging yourself, you start going, Oh, I knew I couldn't do it, or it was it was yeah, unrealistic for me to be able to meditate when I get to bed at this time and I wake up at this time. So I suppose if you stop judging yourself, yeah, that already helps with the confidence piece, like not making, not giving yourself a hard time about it.

SPEAKER_01 18:55

I think the other thing too is if you've been changing a habit, and like you said, that feels uncomfortable, and then you've stopped and you're like, oh, this feels comfortable. I recognize this, like not doing this is what I'm used to doing. Yeah, then you more you revert back to it. Yeah. Because change is uncomfortable. Change inherently is uncomfortable, and I think this is an analogy that I do use a lot, which is this idea that you've spent years and months building systems that support a habit. If you're trying to move, it's a bit like a river changing its course. It takes time. At first, it's gonna be a stream or like a little trickle of water, and then little by little, the more you feed into it, the river will start digging itself in that waterbed. And so, this is my analogy, and so it's a good one. Yeah, and eventually that old path will dry up, but the new one will kind of carve its way out. But you need to keep feeding it and keep pushing into it.

SPEAKER_00 20:00

Yeah, you're talking about habit forming, I suppose.

SPEAKER_01 20:03

Well, I'm talking about the discomfort. I think it's un I do think sometimes there is an element of maybe preparing someone that this isn't gonna feel super comfortable from day one, right? There is gonna be an element of like you have to adapt as well.

SPEAKER_00 20:20

And then so that person agreed with you, but that person will turn around and say, Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I get it, I get it. Yeah. And then when they get to the roadblock, yeah, they go, I don't really I mean, essentially they get it in theory, yeah, but in practice, sometimes they don't get it because they don't realise the the reality of discomfort. And I think that's something that people underestimate. And therefore, I would then question my s someone or myself, yeah, if that was happening to me time and time again, then I'd question my desire, i.e., what is it I really want to achieve?

SPEAKER_01 21:02

So I think, yeah, so there's the question of desire. I mean, the other thing you can work on too is get a plan B in place, right? Like when that happens, as opposed to if it happens, or assuming it doesn't happen, when that happens, what's my response gonna be? Yeah, that's it. So you've constantly got a bit of a if the straight road of this habit is not working, what's the B road I can take? You know? And then this way, so for instance, we're using gym as the analogy because I think that's a really classic one, but okay, I woke up, I feel really tired and a bit shitty, and I just don't feel like going to the gym. Right. In which case, I'm just gonna go for a walk. That's still me getting movement, it's still me getting out and getting fresh air, and I'm still on track of the habit that I'm trying to do. And it's still making that space and time where I would go to the gym, I'm going for a nice gentle walk instead.

SPEAKER_00 21:58

You've just described every one of my Gym sessions, by the way. Me walking on the treadmill. Exactly. Literally, I'm that is what I do like in like 80% of the time. I just get there and I'm like, oh. But then I sit on the treadmill and I just put it on the inclination. And I think, okay, well, it's something. But I'm like you say, I'm there.

SPEAKER_01 22:19

You're there, you've made the time, you've carved the time out. Like I think that's really important. That in itself is consistent.

SPEAKER_00 22:26

Yes. I you know, I've become a consistent treadmill walker, uphill treadmill walker. Uh but no, but what is also quite nice though, I'd say, and I I find this works for me, is that then you can like still take it off as done that day. Exactly. Like in my diary, it is because when I I don't know about you, when I don't do something, I have I have this mental thing where I have to remove it from my diary. So say I uh in my diary I have Monday gym, Wednesday gym, and Friday gym. Say that was what it was, and then say Wednesday I don't go to the gym. That evening I will remove it from the diary. So you'll like scratch it out. Basically, as like a non-sho no-show. As a no wow, you're harsh with yourself. But because then it allows you harsh, but then because then then it's like I'm not lying to myself. If I look back at my diary, I'm like, I didn't go, I went to the gym twice. So just also the actual impact of being like, no, no, I can keep it in there. That's well, I guess at least it makes you more uh actually like what's in your diary you actually do. Yes, yes, yeah, absolutely. I do this all the time. But even in my work diary, every day I have things I have to do. Yeah. If I haven't done them, um, I move them to the next day. Yes. So I'm con I'm have I have a lot of rolling bases, but or I delete it if it's no longer relevant, etc. So everything is current.

SPEAKER_01 23:48

So I yeah, I had slightly the opposite problem where I had put in my phone diary, gym, every day from six till seven. I probably fulfilled that about five percent of the time.

SPEAKER_00 24:01

Because don't you find that so super demotivating then? Not too much, just like a placeholder.

SPEAKER_01 24:06

Yes. And that was kind of the point. I was like, okay, well, one is that it blocks my diary, so people can't put time, no one's putting time in at 6 a.m. anyway. I wouldn't allow that. But it's more just I think it was just as a reminder. But the problem with that, and I don't think that's a good thing, by the way. The problem with that was that then it became a habit for me to ignore.

SPEAKER_00 24:28

Well, that's my whole point. Yeah. Just like the annoying reminder that comes on your phone and then you put aside. So I'm really interested that that's what you do because not anymore. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 24:37

So until recently, where I've really had a rethink about my diary, and I actually r really started blocking times where I was like, right, this is for like, you know, when I'm doing CPD time with my hypnotherapy, or this is when I'm, you know, the podcast and I'm gonna do research for the podcast, and this is when I'm gonna go to the gym. And then I've become much more consistent with it.

SPEAKER_00 25:02

But because it's I'd say most successful, uh like productive people do that. Yeah, because you have to have a diary that you respect. If you don't respect your diary, then it's just a respect your diary. Yeah, but literally, if you have if you it's like your to-do list. If you never ever, if you write a to-do list and you never do anything on it, you have no respect for your to-do list. Yeah, but that's is I guess I can't even but this is what I mean.

SPEAKER_01 25:28

I'm not someone I think who naturally had like quite a lot of discipline. I think I was a bit more shoot from the hip, like, what do I feel like doing today? And then kind of go about that.

SPEAKER_00 25:37

So then the problem is you have to remove the stuff you don't do.

SPEAKER_01 25:40

But in terms of like gym, I wasn't finding I was getting the results that I wanted because Well, you would never go. I was just ignoring it all you were. Yeah, I'm not surprised. Yeah. And so then when I changed it, I said, okay, well, I'm gonna take out the noise and be very mindful about when I put it in.

SPEAKER_00 25:56

Definitely. I mean, I could have told you for free.

SPEAKER_01 26:00

Thanks. I think discomfort is something that you have to expect with habit change. And I think, yes, there is the you can question the identity piece and the the desire or and or if that's still very relevant, plan for the times where it's gonna go wrong.

SPEAKER_00 26:23

Yes, and I would add to that definitely, all of this is in the realm of personal growth that we're doing we're talking about, and personal growth is uncomfortable. That is just there's no way around that. Exactly. So if you are getting on board the personal growth train and you're not ready to be shaken, yeah, then get off at the next stop. But really, like at some point, if you think it's gonna be an easy journey and it's just like the Orient Express, yeah, that's not the right train.

SPEAKER_01 26:50

You need to be going on the tube on the northern line.

SPEAKER_00 26:53

Yeah, exactly, where it's really hot and sweaty.

SPEAKER_01 26:56

At rush hour.

SPEAKER_00 26:57

Yeah, exactly. But it's a little bit that so when whenever you think about personal growth and um you know implementing changes, habits, uh, in this s uh conversation we're having, we're talking about consistency. I do think you have to expect some discomfort. Yeah. And if you're not ready for that, or if it's not up your street, then I think you're not ready for that side of your personal growth. So, how about your um uh meditation? So new habits. Actually, I was gonna do that.

SPEAKER_01 27:26

Did you consistently this is kind of I think why this kind of came to mind because I got to day two and I could I just didn't keep up with it. And it was day one, I did it, and I was doing sort of the meditation, and it felt really nice. What did you how did you do it? Um I was just in silence and had the red light on and I did the I remembered the car map. They did this analogy of like the clouds and the clouds coming in. Evening. Okay. And I did like you with the red light, because I was like, that's a protected time. I can't, you know. And then day two. Your face will thank you. My face was thanking me. And then day two, I reverted back to how I was before, which was to tidy my room where I still have my red light.

SPEAKER_00 28:13

Okay, and then day three?

SPEAKER_01 28:15

Same thing. I got into and then I was like stopped meditation. Pretty much.

SPEAKER_00 28:19

So you did one day of meditation.

SPEAKER_01 28:20

Yeah. And this is it, this is I think this is why it came to me this concept, because I was like, how what is it about this thing that I'm trying to do? And it's really simple and it feels good, and there's it's got everything for it, and for some reason I just can't make the time for it, and I can't make the space for it. So in this particular case, so if I had to work back and I worked on that, the first thing I would do is I would prepare the scene, right? My room has to be tidy before I put the mask on so that the environment is set and I've got nothing to do. My knit is away, the phone's on silence, you know, and it's very much all I have to do is the meditation, so there's no distraction. And it's kind of the last hurdle before put my moisturizer on and go to bed. And I think that would be how I would kind of work back to it.

SPEAKER_00 29:10

But also, do you does it not make you think that you just don't value it as enough either as a practice?

SPEAKER_01 29:16

Absolutely. And I just it's not that I don't think it's a valuable practice.

SPEAKER_00 29:19

No, no, I know, I know, but for you, but for me now, it's probably not something that you've got top of one's mind.

SPEAKER_01 29:25

It's not, and I just don't feel like I need it at the moment. Like my mind actually feels quite clear, and I know it's not about needing, and it's a practice you do consistently, but I think because one, it doesn't hurt enough, right?

SPEAKER_00 29:38

Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_01 29:39

So the de the desire is the desire, and I I just don't think it's also built into my identity of I'm someone who meditates. I would never describe myself as that.

SPEAKER_00 29:48

Well, no, you don't for one day. But this is this is exactly the whole thing as well. It's the chetty. I could not meditate for a day and call myself a monk. Uh but it's like the meditation piece for you is in I mean, definitely how I see it in your from you telling me that is that you just don't want to, you don't don't want it enough. It doesn't hurt enough, you you don't believe intrinsically about the benefits of it sufficiently. And also it's more in your character, you know, in maybe in like how you organize your thoughts and and things like that. So I think that's where you question. Rather than trying to like push it and really go, you know, you're not quite convinced about it. The marketing hasn't worked on you.

SPEAKER_01 30:30

The marketing's worked, but for me, I it's just not something that I'm at this moment. I think have, like you said, the desire to adopt. You could have everything that is for a habit and still not find the space to do it consistently. I think there's maybe an element of ego of I feel like I just don't need it.

SPEAKER_00 30:54

So that's the identity piece, isn't it? You're not a meditator.

SPEAKER_01 30:57

No, I'm not a meditator. And I think also I'm not great at um being a preventer. It's like wait until it hurts. Yeah. And then you I think a lot of people are like, exactly. I think a lot of people. I mean, I say that I do go to the gym regularly, and not because you know, I've got uh.

SPEAKER_00 31:18

I reckon with meditation possibly it may never happen for you, but it could also be a piece of you know something is gonna happen maybe and you'll need it for your mental health and then you'll get on to the stuff.

SPEAKER_01 31:31

And I have had moments where I have, like journaling, like things like that. I do it goes very much in and out. Oh, interesting.

SPEAKER_00 31:38

Same with journaling. What you're saying is all of those type of reflective practices for you are not necessary to do consistently.

SPEAKER_01 31:48

From a personal point of view. But I think I'm very open to the fact that that could change. I don't think that's necessarily a permanent state. Um great. Thank you so much. That's a good uh good topic, Kimber. Yeah. Well, this we're gonna be on a break for probably a couple of weeks. Really? Well, I'm away next week. And then so it's one week. Okay. Unless you're going to be a week. Yeah, so we'll be back in two weeks. So we'll be back in two weeks' time for the next episode of Shit Tapic. But until then, you can catch um the previous uh eight episodes plus this one. This is the ninth. Um, uh wherever you get your podcast, and we will be back in a couple of weeks' time. That sounds good. Great. Thank you so much.