Guilt: The Hidden Side of Self-Improvement

In this episode of Shift Happens, we unpack guilt — where it comes from, how it shows up, and why it often appears during personal growth and identity change. We explore the idea that guilt can surface when you start behaving differently, setting boundaries, or moving away from old habits, and how this discomfort can sometimes lead to self-sabotage.

We also discuss the difference between guilt and shame, people-pleasing tendencies, “mum guilt,” and the pressure created by unrealistic expectations. From guilt around food and habits to saying no, starting a business, or prioritising yourself, we reflect on how guilt can shape behaviour and confidence.

This episode offers a balanced perspective on healthy vs unhelpful guilt, why it’s a common part of growth, and how self-compassion and awareness can help you move forward without being held back.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:06

Hi again today, legs. Saw you this morning at the gym. Yeah, I saw you in lifting weights pumping. Lift pumping iron. Pumping iron. Look at those muscles bulging. We're both gonna feel it tomorrow. So today we wanted to talk about guilt. Yeah. Are you feeling guilty about something? Are we gonna turn this into a confessional? No.

SPEAKER_02 0:29

No, do you know what? I actually thought this is quite an under-discussed side effect of um like personal growth.

SPEAKER_01 0:42

Oh, interesting.

SPEAKER_02 0:44

I find that when people going through changes and when they're dealing with um, I suppose yeah, personal growth as it were, they just don't necessarily realize or identify that sometimes they can feel guilty about the changes that are happening.

SPEAKER_01 1:06

Really interesting.

SPEAKER_02 1:07

And I think that some people know how to verbalise it, but others they don't, but it it bothers them and it nags them. And I I think that I do notice that in conversations I have with either clients or friends, and you know, anyone who's kind of on a on their own personal development journey, then and I think that also actually we don't really see that much information about it out on social media or that maybe discussion points, but I definitely think it's a universal feeling, and uh, you know, it's not yeah, it's not unique to one person or all rare.

SPEAKER_01 1:46

So it's interesting because guilt so I guess starting from the beginning, do you think there are different types of guilt?

SPEAKER_02 1:58

Starting from the beginning.

SPEAKER_01 1:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:00

Not from the end.

SPEAKER_01 2:01

Not from the end. Okay. Starting from the beginning. Is there like a good guilt and like a bad guilt?

SPEAKER_02 2:08

Well, I think there's a perceived guilt if that's what we're talking about. Say if say you're going through your own of course, if you have stolen or you know, lied or, you know, or done something deliberately. Done something bad, then that is genuine guilt. Yeah. It's uh you know, a condition, a human condition that you feel if that's happened. But I think in this context, I'm saying it more like, so when you're going through changes personally, and a lot of that is is through, you know, increased self-awareness, it's through uh doing things differently, um, having boundaries, you know, let's say you're doing work with a coach or a therapist or a nutritionist or anyone, dietitian, then you're gonna do things differently out. That's kind of the aim of the game. And as a result, you show up differently to people in your life, yeah, to yourself, but also people in your life. And I think that can then subconsciously create, because it changes the dynamics in relationships and friendships and you know, professional um environments, then that person can feel a bit guilty because suddenly they're saying no when they used to say yes. Yeah. They're saying they're calling you out on something where they used to like shut up and just get on with it. Yeah. They are, you know, putting their foot down, they're maybe choosing a different option, they may be, and so all of these things, then because it feels unnatural at first and it feels out of sorts, I think people then feel a bit guilty. They feel guilt because it or you know, maybe they're just identifying a dis discomfort. They'll feel some kind of like, oh, did I say that right? Did I do that right? Uh, should I have done that? Should I, you know, because you're you're in that period of limbo, and I think you feel it, but you're not quite sure where you stand on it. Yeah. And that I think can bring up feelings of guilt. And I think that period of time or that particular emotion is kind of under discussed. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:08

Um I think that's totally, and I mean, in a way, it's probably a reason why a lot of people also sabotage any kind of progress. Yeah. Because they're like, oh no. There's that guilt feeling, and because it's a negative emotion, but that happens when they're trying to do something positive, then they think, oh, well, that maybe that means that then what I'm doing is the wrong thing. And they might even have people around them convincing them that's the case. You know, I never see you anymore. Yeah. Used to go out drinking, and now you're antisocial, and and that can be like a negative.

SPEAKER_02 4:40

And I don't think people mean to as well around you. They don't necessarily mean to um guilt trip you guilt trip you or sabotage, as it were, but they are just themselves are not understanding maybe the the changes, and so they are trying to revert back to what was subconsciously, and so then you fall into it, or you find it too uncomfortable because essentially at the beginning, I suppose you're somewhat taking the advice of maybe uh your doctor, your nutritionist, your therapist, your coach, or whoever is helping you on that change journey, or even maybe it might be just yourself. Maybe you're reading the books, listening to the podcast, etc. And so then you're like, oh, but yeah, it does feel it does feel unaligned. And you know, we talk about alignment, and if it doesn't feel right, then it shouldn't, yeah, it's not right, and therefore goes, oh, but it doesn't feel right, therefore you go, yeah. Well, it mustn't be right, so it mustn't be right. But I think there's a really deep difference between it not feeling right because it's change and because it's that period that you're in, and that doesn't necessarily mean you're you're not aligned or that you're not doing the right thing, it's just that you're going through a change, and I think it's really, really crucial that to acknowledge that kind of limbo stage where your identity's shifting, and you will maybe lose friendships around it. Maybe you'll you know you'll lose uh some kind of ties of relationships of some kind because you were it only worked because you were a certain person and now it doesn't work anymore. But I mean that's obviously a kind of the next phase is doing some clearing out, but I I can see how it can then make you feel uh like you're not going in the right direction when actually you are, you're absolutely going in the right direction of change. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:32

So that's Coach Oli talking about this. Have you ever experienced this?

SPEAKER_02 6:36

No, it's not Coach Oli. I just I don't I I think I see I hear it and I see it, but also, yeah, of course I've felt it, definitely. I think I no, the only reason I found interesting to bring it up is because actually you I feel it and I speak to people and I think they feel it too, and then you realise that's weird because it's not often kind of openly discussed in in circles or on social or in books. I mean, I haven't come across it loads. I guess it's not identified as guilt.

SPEAKER_01 7:13

Maybe not. And it's sort of more, I don't know, I guess it'll be identified more as, you know, the discomfort of change and kind of lumped into that whole thing. But maybe the labelling of like, well, it's that, it's almost that guiltiness of leaving your past self behind or the people who are associated with that or the activities or whatever, which can't you can't bring with you on whatever journey that you're on.

SPEAKER_02 7:42

Well, when I asked you to think about this topic, what came up for you? What did you think about? Did you think it was a bit left-field?

SPEAKER_01 7:51

No, I guess for me, when I when guilt comes up because you must hear it loads with comments all the time. But it's in a different way. And this is why I kind of was coming on to like, do you think there are different types of guilt? Because I think the one you're talking about is actually it's a very positive type of guilt, because it's one that probably means, well, you're actually doing the identity change. If that's coming up, okay, yeah, then it means that you are shifting something concretely. I see it probably in quite a lot of negative ways. I do see the positive, but sometimes where people are labeling foods as like good and bad, and I had a cheat day and I feel guilty or I've overeaten. Are they like self-critic? Exactly. It's more that self-flagellating sort of I'm gonna quote unquote punish myself, and that have that like insider guilt. And in a weird way, when it's when you're feeding the negative type of guilt, you've you actually reinforce the behavior you want to get rid of.

SPEAKER_02 8:53

Okay, so tell me.

SPEAKER_01 8:54

So for instance, you know, if you're let's say wanting to lose weight, I use that one because obviously that's a really classic one, and I think quite a lot of people um can identify with that. But you know, you'll say, okay, well, I need to eat more of the good foods and less of the bad foods, and so you restrict, you restrict, you restrict, and then something happens as it inevitably does, and then you end up binging, and then you end up feeling guilty about it, which makes you feel worse about yourself, and therefore actually feeds into more into that binging cycle and into the quote unquote bad behavior. So you actually that guilt feeling is gonna reinforce more of that negative behavior rather than actually compassion, I think um, you know, self-love and self-care will more likely reinforce the good pattern behavior that you're looking to get. So it's interesting. I think guilt I think does come in like a negative and in a positive way.

SPEAKER_02 9:53

Yeah, yeah, definitely. I agree with you with that, because you don't want to be, you don't want to become like a martyr because of your guilt or exactly victimise yourself because of your guilt. But actually that just made me think when I did a bit of research around this topic, um, I came across the there's uh Brene Brown does this Atlas of the Heart. Did you see this? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think I gave you the book. No, no, no, no, but yes, uh no no, I have the book, but it's not and and she um identifies and she makes a definition of guilt and shame. And I think a lot of them are often inter connect interused. Yeah. Um and I'm and I think maybe where she says guilt is about something bad you've done. Like you I've hurt you. Yeah, like stole your top. Exactly. Stained it with red wine. Shame is I am bad. Yeah. And so that's an I that's a like a core belief versus guilt, which is like a, you know, I suppose a circumstantial ad hoc belief for the moment. Yeah. And actually that did make me think uh I didn't I hadn't really ever kind of I suppose thought about the real core differences, but perhaps what you're talking about is more the shame element because it's that core belief like I am no good at losing weight because I couldn't I couldn't do this. And so there's it or maybe it starts off as guilt and then it turns into shame. It becomes more of an identity, like of a of an identifying piece of like and and um and I think I think knowing and understanding the differences is really important because I reckon, like you've ide like you've said, guilt is probably a quite a positive catalyst to moving forwards. Yeah if you if you acknowledge it and say, okay, this is what's happening. This is the way it's whereas I think shame is really like a a real negative thing to feel for yourself. Yeah. You know, not much good will come from feeling shameful.

SPEAKER_01 11:48

No, it you're not you're not gonna move forward if you're moving along with shame.

SPEAKER_02 11:52

And I think therefore, when you're in that process, and maybe this is something that you can take forward when you're talking to someone who is um criticizing themselves and bringing up these shameful beliefs. Maybe you can first of all get them out of shame into the guilt and saying, you know, it's just this moment. It doesn't make anything different of you as a person, it's just this is a this moment happened. Exactly. And then when you move from that, then you can go forwards with you know what I mean? It's like nearly a transition out.

SPEAKER_01 12:19

And then I guess you're putting putting it, isolating it more to an event versus like a person thing.

SPEAKER_02 12:24

Because it's not an identity thing, it's not and led by your identity, which I think shame really feels rooted in, and therefore, you know, it can then like you say go to over-drinking, overeating, uh negative cycle, negative cycles. Yeah, whereas I feel like guilt, uh not being guilty, that's different, but just feeling guilt, yeah, then I think um because being guilty m probably puts you behind bars.

SPEAKER_01 12:52

Yeah, that's a different we're not talking about like jujitsu. Exactly. Um when you mentioned the topic, I immediately went back to as a kid. I used to feel guilt, and I think I still do to this day, but I feel guilt so deeply. Like I remember as a kid, I don't know, did you ever do I don't think you ever do did this? Well, mum and dad never told me anyway, but I used to literally lie awake in bed. If I had done something that I knew was wrong, like I don't know, snuck a peek at your diary, or you know, never did that, obviously. Um That's shameful. Never did that. Um, or like I remember once I I got a girl in trouble at school. Yeah, you did okay, something a bit naughty. Something a bit naughty. I would literally lie in bed, couldn't sleep, and then get out of bed, go to mum and dad's room and be like, Mom, dad, like I have something to confess. And then I would literally just like come out, fill it out, and then I'd be like, oh, feel better now. Go back to bed, sleep like a baby. Yeah, but I need to offload it. I have to offload it. Like I just felt it so inherently.

SPEAKER_02 14:04

Um I don't know. I had this, I used to have this thing now. I don't know if it's about guilt or if it's more about hyp being a hypochondriac, but um I had that story made me think of I remember so clearly I once went into mum's drawer and I pulled out a necklace, a bead uh pearl necklace, and I was playing with it and I broke the clasp and I just put it back in the drawer. And then it was around the same time that the um tuberculosis epidemic was going around. It was like in the 90s. Oh, okay. And the epidemic, as in it was on the rise, like whatever. And so lots of schools were getting the that jab. Oh you know, do you remember the flower and the BCG thing? BCG, exactly. And then so I was convinced that I had tuberculosis because I had done something bad, and therefore that like I was now gonna get really sick, and you know, and so it took me a couple, I mean, in my head it was a couple of weeks, but maybe it was a few days, and I was just so sure that like this disease had got me. And then so I went to mum and I was like, I need to tell you something, etc. I showed her the necklace, and then I was like, I think I have tuberculosis, I think I'm gonna do like please take no, and then I was like, take me to the doctor, get me the vaccine. I want the vaccine, and she was like, Oh my goodness, this is fine, it's just a piece of tat, like it's not got any value, and also we'll go to the doctors, we'll get you the BCG jab. And that's how I got my BCG jab because I actually have it. Yeah, so yeah, I suppose like it was quite like that a feeling of that physical kind of maybe that's also just a hypochondriac child. Hypochondria, but there's like a you're associating like punishment, punishment guilt. I suppose that's more shame, actually. I probably felt more shame ashamed that I had done something and not confessed to it. So I was like, the heavens are gonna like punish me.

SPEAKER_00 15:54

Like with TB. Yeah, it would be very biblical.

SPEAKER_02 15:59

It's like I was struck by TB. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 16:02

That's like exactly. Um it's uh I mean the other thing that struck me is do you think that guilt is also a trait of people pleasers? So yeah, maybe it's something that I've and I do, I think I self-identify quite a bit as like a bit of a people pleaser. I like, I think I like to please people. Um and I find that guilt comes quite strongly with that because when I can't say yes to something, instead of being like, yeah, I'm busy, like I can't do it, I feel guilt that I wasn't able to help someone out or that I wasn't able to do something.

SPEAKER_02 16:47

So definitely. I mean, I suppose if you don't care for people pleasing too much, if you're not one to like be mm-hmm, you know, overtly into it, yeah, then I suppose you would feel less guilt. I can think of definitely one or two people I know now that you've just said this who are absolutely not people pleasers, and I g I could be practically sure that they probably don't have that feeling we're talking about. Yeah. So you're right. I've l it just made me think, yeah, you know, if you think of those characters where you can tell they're just, you know, kind of like their orbit, their their world, their thing. Yeah. Verging on sometimes a bit selfish or a bit kind of I'm not saying it's we're not talking about that, but you know what I mean. Those specific people who do things for themselves, yeah, and then you're on the journey or you're not. Yeah. But I don't think they have that feeling of guilt. And in a way, I kind of envy it. Because I do think I don't know about that, you know. Oh really? Yeah, I don't know about that because I think you also miss a lot of connection with people.

SPEAKER_01 17:48

Yeah, but it can't be like oh god, the you know, the French word like maladief. Like it can't be like to the to the point where it's like detrimental to you.

SPEAKER_02 17:57

No, but that's where people pleasing is not good. Yeah, it's good to be good to to please people, but it's not good to be a people pleaser. Yeah. So obviously, and this is where I think there's a fine line. Because those people who are on their kind of journey, and it's like I do what I do, and you know, you come on that journey. I don't really envy that because I think you you kind of it's like your little island. Yeah, and yes, you know, from the outside you look at it and you go, like, oh yeah, she got her shit together, she does what she wants, she lives where she wants, she, you know, has her, she she, you know, definitely wears the pants in the relationship, all these things, but then you think, but you're kind of missing connection because you're not really ever can like vulnerable or laying your guard down or trying to like, hey, what do you because part of people pleasing does give that element of do you do you think it's okay? How do you think about it? Like, yeah, there's I guess it's like getting feedback also a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 18:48

Um but I did it really did make me feel like a big part of mm times that I feel guilt is when I can't help someone else.

SPEAKER_02 18:57

Yes, so you you've got that feeling, maybe. Do you ask, do you say to yourself, like, what what kind of thing comes up in your head the moment you feel that guilt? What is the the question or the Well uh usually I mean it's a it's usually for a very legit reason, but for some reason I'm like, well when you feel guilt, what is the mental question or note that comes up like that makes you feel the guilt?

SPEAKER_01 19:22

It's more just that instant thing that happens when I say no. And it could be like, oh, I had to turn down like going on a holiday with someone because financial pressures, time pressures, you know, whole.

SPEAKER_02 19:36

So the question in your head you go, Did I let them down?

SPEAKER_01 19:40

Yeah, have I let them down? Even though it's you know it's with plenty of notice and it's based on very point being is yeah, you're so the question in your head is have I let them down?

SPEAKER_02 19:52

Did I make the right decision?

SPEAKER_01 19:53

Yes. Are they gonna are they gonna are they gonna just yeah, like maybe less than that? So therefore you and and am I less of a friend to them as a result? Um and I think but now it's older, and I even though I have I think that knee-jack guilt reaction, and I do go through that, I also have the the flip side of it where I'm like, okay, but you know, it's legitimate reasons, I can't say yes all the time, and I have to at some point also look after myself, like then I think in life you do need to balance that slight selfishness with that selflessness, and that's where that balance has to come. I mean, and again, that's a very specific type of guilt feeling, yeah. But I do think people pleasing is something that I hear a lot of people self-identify as.

SPEAKER_02 20:48

Um and that's and we've spoken about that in the in the past, so it it's kind of interesting to follow on with this topic because they're obviously very closely connected, but I think this gets so much less uh airtime. Airtime. So much less airtime.

SPEAKER_01 21:03

But I think it comes down to there are there are good types of guilt and then there's the bad types because I the guilt also is a bit of a barometer, right? Of like you you know, okay, you might have done something off, and if you have that niggling feeling, it's kind of a self-reflection.

SPEAKER_02 21:19

Yeah, because it's but therefore it's it's it's okay. You go, you you look at it and you grow from it and then you move on. But that's a healthy way. I mean, like every type I suppose it's yeah, it's a response. There's like the healthy response to it, and then there's an unhealthy response. If you then go on and on and on about it and can't drop it or can't make a change and you start and you ruminate, then you're not doing anything positive there. Whereas, you know, no one is perfect. If you have actually done something bad that wasn't perfect, then you could rectify that or you can apologize, or you can, you know. But like you say, actually, if you s if you first of all I think identify shame from guilt, yeah, and then guilt from You know, I say I suppose good guilt, bad guilt, yeah, but then it's about identifying, you know, and and not letting it go into a negative spiral that doesn't end up having any benefit, any any side, you know, any positive conclusion.

SPEAKER_01 22:16

And I think when you're in the midst of changing something in your life, yeah, and you're getting that, I guess even just being a bit aware that that's likely to come up because you are in some respect leaving behind people or habits or a version of yourself. A version of yourself. Absolutely. And so, you know, in a way you can almost see it as a positive thing that the change is actually happening if you're getting it. Absolutely. A last bit or another piece of I think the guilt is the flip side, is the apology. Okay. So I was once told I say sorry too much.

SPEAKER_02 22:59

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 23:00

Which I think is a really interesting, and I I to an extent I think there's That's very British, though, isn't it? Exactly. I was about to say it's a bit of a British thing. It's a cultural thing. It is a cultural thing. But I do think I have since being told that definitely had a reflection of being much more conscientious of when I do say sorry.

SPEAKER_02 23:20

What's the issue with saying sorry too much though? I don't really see because then it becomes disingenuous. Well, not necessarily if you mean it.

SPEAKER_01 23:27

Um Yeah, but I do think that apologizing things that for things that you might not have done or that were not actually of cause of your own, but you're it's that weird thing.

SPEAKER_02 23:40

But it's a cultural thing as well.

unknown 23:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:44

They aren't actually mean they're sorry, they're just saying, you know.

SPEAKER_01 23:47

But is there so interestingly, I don't see you as someone who says sorry easily. You're not someone who I think apologizes to things very quickly. Is this gonna be like a no? I mean, that is, and and I know I the uh say sorry to me about something. What did I do when I was 12 years old? Um no, but it's and it's interesting because when that reflection was made to me, I started looking at the people around me, and I noticed some people are very quick to apologize. Interesting, and other people less so. I think maybe there's some times where you could say it more, but I like I said, I think you maintain the genuinity of the word and of the meaning of the word by not saying it so much. Whereas I fear that when one says sorry, I think too much, the problem that happens is that then it becomes like a sorry again. It's but it's a really it's a funny one because also I catch myself saying it things like, you know, someone would have said like a piece of bad news and you say, Oh, I'm sorry about that. Like, I'm sorry that happened for you. And I've tried to rephrase it and be like, Oh, that must be really difficult for you, or kind of acknowledging the situation instead of putting that word sorry so that trying to maintain it for genuine, use it for its purpose.

SPEAKER_02 25:16

Yeah. How can they say sorry without saying sorry?

SPEAKER_01 25:18

How do you say so 15 different ways without using the word sorry? Yeah, but you know, it's that classic thing like, you know, when someone does that fake apology thing, like I'm sorry you feel that way, and you're just like, but you're not apologizing for the thing that you've got very patronizing and passive aggressive, you know, when when someone should really just be like, I'm sorry, and then like I'm sorry you feel that way, and that's that's to me, that's like a backhanded slap.

SPEAKER_02 25:42

Yeah. Do you think that has anything to do with uh like either feeling guilty, not guilty, saying sorry, not sorry, um has any of it got to to do with your level of internal confidence?

SPEAKER_01 25:56

100%. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 25:58

I do think that um, and I was actually I actually had made some a note about this, but I definitely think that guilt and confidence massively which I so this is something I I thought about um that I did want to bring up is perhaps why mum guilt is quite strong, because typically when you're feeling it, you're not you're quite vulnerable. Oh, interesting, or you're feeling uh like maybe there's an identity, you know, new mums, new situations, new developments going on, and so you're maybe your confidence levels are not at the highest, yeah, and therefore that feeling kicks in stronger. Yeah. Whereas I feel like, and maybe I'm wrong, but I feel like if you're more accomplished, feeling more confident, you know, whether it's again in motherhood, in business, in friendships, in everything, you know, in yourself, in your being, you probably feel guilty less.

SPEAKER_01 26:54

Yeah. A hundred percent. Because I think you're more, you're probably more certain about the environment that you're in. So that ambiguity of did I do it right, did I do it wrong? Did I say the wrong thing? Did I say if you feel more confident, you're like, okay, even if I did say a little bit, something a bit, they'll get over it, it'll be fine. It's not a big deal in the grand scheme of things. You relativise. Yeah. But actually, when you're feeling very vulnerable, you could be tired, it could be you're in a new phase of your life, like you're saying. Yeah, and emotions, etc. You start overthinking these things.

SPEAKER_02 27:28

I had that this morning. I felt really guilty because I dropped off Theo and he was so upset for some reason. But had been absolutely fine, slept really well, really nice morning, you know, lots of laughs. And then the moment we got to nursery, he was like so upset, and I felt like certainly that element of mum guilt. It didn't last too long, actually, because I knew that he was okay. No, because actually I didn't get it, but I think I felt like he's he's just going through a phase, and you know, I really was like, if I'd stayed with him and I hadn't dropped him off, what else could I have brought to the table? Just more cuddles, and and I did it, I did spend about 15 minutes with him, and then eventually I was like, okay, we need you need to go in and it will be okay. But I just was thinking it's true that had I slept poorly, had it been maybe a few years ago or in a different set of circumstances, that would have been way worse, that guilt, way worse. Yeah, and you don't bounce back from it as quickly. Yeah. Whereas this time round, I did feel it, but fairly quickly I was able to relativise and put myself back in a position of like he's fine, he's healthy, he's happy, he was absolutely okay. It's just like an emotional moment that happened, you know? Yeah. Um, yeah, so I suppose that I suppose the bounce back from the guilt is kind of also where maybe where you are in in that confidence at the time at that specific time.

SPEAKER_01 28:55

And interestingly, I think I would I would put a big bet on the fact that a lot of the times we feel guilty, the things that caused us to feel that guilt, that those people don't necessarily realize that that's happened. It I feel like it's something that a a lot of the time we put onto ourselves rather than someone putting it on us. That does happen.

SPEAKER_02 29:21

But where Oh yeah, it's like a narrative.

SPEAKER_01 29:23

It's an overthinking thing.

SPEAKER_02 29:25

It's a narrative in your head. Exactly. It's created.

SPEAKER_01 29:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:28

And I and I and again that confidence piece happens because the more confident you are, then the less likely you're going to self-impose that guilt on yourself.

SPEAKER_02 29:38

But then that's the and that's the issue. If you're in a kind of journey of self-development and you're going through changes internally, then it will be a bit more, it'll feel a bit sharper because you don't have that confidence yet. You're in limbo by default. You're a bit rocky, you're leaving like a chapter behind, maybe not entered a new one, you're in that, you know, no man's land. And that can feel destabilizing. So therefore, you do ask yourself those questions and you and I've certainly been guilty of it at times where I've just been like, did I do that right? Did I behave that way? Yeah, you know, did I overreact, underreact, you know, etc. etc. Because you're in that period where you you're not maybe as well confident as you could be.

SPEAKER_01 30:24

I think clear example, and I think we can both well, I can we're both in the same situation of starting your own business, and I feel like that takes so much of your time. So interestingly, this weekend I went to a university reunion. People I haven't seen in 15 years, and um people were like, Oh, you know, where have you been and what have you been up to? And you know, part of me, my initial thing was guilt, like I hadn't interacted with these people for years, but equally, you know, why did you feel guilt that you hadn't interacted with? Because I guess I I again it was that sort of like, have I been a bad friend, or have I but then I was like, you know, I I lived abroad for five years, and then when I came back, didn't like you much anyway. No, but you know, life was a bit turmoil, and then starting a business has been so all-encompassing. And you know, when you're starting a business, funds are usually a bit lower than usual, and you're trying to be a little bit more scarce with your resources and things like that. And and I know it sounds like a lot of excuses, but you do I have felt starting a business, especially at the beginning, it's so destabilizing because you kind of feel like, but I need to be putting all of my time and energy to get this going and to and to make it off the ground. And I don't know how much is too much, how much is not enough. You know, I want this to be a success, but equally I have to have a social life, but it and it's well, this is all the overthinking. This is the overthinking and this rocky ground of it's a new identity. I'm now a business owner, I don't have a regular paycheck, I can just you know rely on from a company or something.

SPEAKER_02 32:06

So sorry, Steve. I wanted to buy myself a handbag, so I haven't seen you in five years' time. Yeah, couldn't go for drinking.

SPEAKER_01 32:13

Really nice handbag though. And so it's one of those things where it I felt again that little moment. And then very quickly there, I was like, well, you know, it is what it is, and yeah, ultimately no one's holding it. Again, it's very much self-imposed guilt rather than anybody else putting it in.

SPEAKER_02 32:32

Yeah, I think so. Probably. I mean, like, I suppose that's the whole I suppose that is part of the conclusion is that when you're going through that um period of your life where you're feeling maybe more guilt than others other times, you know, I suppose the question to ask yourself is why am I feeling guilty? Yeah. And then, you know, is anyone else making me feel guilty? Because probably, like you said, the answer to that is something that you don't need to be necessarily feeling guilty about. And then the second question would be, no one else is actually making me feel guilty, you know. Exactly. I'm creating that for myself, maybe because I feel uh lacking confidence, or I feel, you know, not that I'm not, you know, as as sabled as I should be or could be or have been in the past, or that I'm just changing the direction that I'm going in, etc. And therefore I'm not able to do the same as before.

SPEAKER_00 33:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:26

I think, and I think maybe also reflect, is this the good kind of guilt because I'm leaving a part of myself behind that I do actually want to change? Or have I, you know, or like you said, is it self-imposed, is someone imposing it on me? Is it something I need to atone for or you know, apologize for and making that sincere? So I think it's being reflect again, kind of reflecting on where that guilt is coming from. Is it a place of positive or negative kind of feeling?

SPEAKER_02 33:54

Yeah, but most importantly, I think just talking about it as well. This is kind of why I wanted to bring this topic, is because I don't think it gets spoken about much. And I get I can guarantee most nearly everyone you speak to in your clients or in your friends and family, like will feel it to a certain degree, and therefore it's kind of it is a universal feeling, but we're not talking about it much. Yeah, exactly. Guilty, um, and therefore, you know, it's also that makes you feel more connected. It's like, oh, you also feel that. Okay, cool, I get it. Okay, so it's fine. Like, and you know, normalizing it a bit more. Yeah. But but maybe having this different um understanding of guilt and shame because I do think they just get intertwined a lot and actually they have quite different guilt might give you a little bit of feedback on stuff that's happening, but shame is just self-destructive. And it's identity that can really make you not so much good can come from it from I don't think anything good can from feeling shame. The actions that come out of that are not gonna be positive generally.

SPEAKER_01 35:00

And I think as a last parting message, is an a bit like we talked about in some other episode no one is perfect, like you are entitled to slip up, do things wrong, make mistakes, be a bit left footed, and you know, all of that. And so everyone at some point will mess up, and that's okay. That's also kind of how you learn. And therefore, even if you have messed up and there is a genuine guilt feeling that you need to apologize for, that that's a really it's a normal part of being human.

SPEAKER_02 35:37

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that's fair.

SPEAKER_01 35:40

Okay. Yeah. Cool. Really interesting topic. Guilt. I think you're absolutely right. It's I probably feel it multiple times a day, every day, to some varying degree. But yeah, really interesting. Thank you. You're welcome. Um thank you so much. I think that's all good for today. Thank you so much for listening to Shift Happens. Um, you can listen to this episode and all the other episodes wherever you get your podcasts. And we see you here every week um with a new topic. Thank you so much.