The Truth About Work-Life Balance

In this episode of Shift Happens, we unpack the modern conversation around work-life balance, work-life flexibility, career success, and the realities of juggling work, family, and personal priorities.

Inspired by recent comments from Emma Grede on motherhood, working from home, and career progression, we explore whether traditional work-life balance is still relevant—or whether work-life fluidity is a better fit for modern life.

We discuss working from home, career growth, privilege, productivity, household responsibilities, motherhood, entrepreneurship, and defining success on your own terms. This episode is a reminder that time is your most valuable resource, priorities change, and success looks different for everyone.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:07

How are you doing? Good. How are you doing? Stress. You do feel stress.

SPEAKER_00 0:14

You're getting stress vibes. Yeah. It's been it's been a week. It's definitely been like one of the more challenging, taxing weeks I've had in a while, which is fine. They remind you you're you're alive. Um Do you feel is it work stressing you? Yeah, it's definitely work-driven, which in the grand scheme of things is probably the best problems to have because I think when it impacts more like life and family and friends and health, like those are the kinds of stresses you really don't want. So all things considered, I'm very much relativizing that this is the the best kind of stress to have, and probably the most fixable ones. So I just have to work through them. Um, but interestingly, in a not so subtle segue to it's definitely highlighted work-life balance issues.

SPEAKER_01 1:01

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:02

Um, did you see why I did the very sly little segue into work life balance?

SPEAKER_01 1:06

Well, it wasn't at all.

SPEAKER_00 1:06

It was very well, yeah, because work stress has meant that I've been working more longer hours.

SPEAKER_01 1:12

I thought you meant work stresses and things are not going away. I didn't realise that it was more work.

SPEAKER_00 1:17

Well, it's been a bit of both. Things not going my way, and therefore it's increased. I've been doing late evenings and late nights, like trying to fix things and trying to like work through things and educate myself, etc. And therefore, I have been definitely eating into my own personal life, like allocated time. Um and interestingly, I think that's a it's an I thought it was a very clever segue into what we're gonna talk today.

SPEAKER_01 1:46

Work-life balance.

SPEAKER_00 1:46

Which is a work-life balance, which is come into the spotlight by Emma Greed, who is a serial entrepreneur, I think she describes herself as. Very successful. Very successful, and has written and released a book, a lot around. I mean, it's it seems to be mostly autobiography autobiographical about her path, her sort of rise to success.

SPEAKER_01 2:12

And uh it's like a guide, I think, a guide of how to be a kind of successful entrepreneur and ambitious, yeah, you know, but it's based on her own book, so yeah, right.

SPEAKER_00 2:23

She's not really basing it on anybody.

SPEAKER_01 2:24

I haven't actually read the book, but I think that uh the important thing, well, the point you're bringing coming to is what's hit Instagram and social media is all of this stuff about how um she's kind of like a part-time mum and she's prioritised herself. It is called prioritised prioritise you or yourself or something in the book, and how obviously, in order to be such a successful uh female entrepreneur, there are lots of sacrifices you have to make. Yeah. And also redefining ambition and your power, empowerment, etc. And I think she's come under quite a lot of scrutiny over some of the things because she calls herself a three-hour weekend mum.

SPEAKER_00 3:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:07

And also has very openly spoken about how work from home is like a complete career killer. Yeah. Um, which obviously work from home does enable work-life balance to set it for some people. Yes. So that does uh lead to like kind of lead to question like if you don't have work from home, can you have work-life balance? And yeah, and as is funny because she keeps like re-irrit uh re-irritating? Re-reiterating. Reiterating that she has like irritating, though. It's a bit irritating, but she keeps going on about how many hundreds and hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of women work for her, and it's like, okay, we get it, like female-dominated workforce, but then why are you not serving them better? Because surely like the work from home. I get her point that it's not great good for your career, but some people that might not be what they're looking for, they're actually looking for the work life.

SPEAKER_00 4:06

Well, this is it, and I think it's she's very much tapped into such a narrow niche of like women who very much absolutely just want to dedicate their lives to their careers, and I think it pro it comes up with a lot. There's so many like side conversations you could have about this. I think one is definitely around all of these women that she's employing, and she's kind of feeding into that system, she's not really helping people speak to them and what they think about it, and yeah, and about her as a boss, and she must be pretty tough. But I think it also leans into that whole thing where women have to put on so many hats. Yeah. And I think women entering the workforce as we are now hasn't none of like the previous responsibilities that women traditionally had around the house have been kind of taken away from them. So working has just been something that you're just gonna have to add on to that. And I think not giving women that work-life balance opportunity and that work from home opportunity, that just makes it really hard then. Because okay, so now I'm having to do all my household chores, which I still have for the majority of women. And if you look at research, it still is the case. Like I know men are getting better and they're learning how to click and clean and cook and good for them.

SPEAKER_01 5:28

But women and also the parenting responsibility, a lot of it does go to the mum, especially in the earlier years, maybe not as the child gets older. Yeah, I think obviously from the pregnancy to the birth.

SPEAKER_00 5:38

But even in divorce cases, majority of the time, women uh children go to the mum. So single parenting tends to fall on the mum in divorce cases or separated couples. So again, women taking on much more of that household.

SPEAKER_01 5:51

But so, okay, to to to kind of I actually do agree that work-life bat uh that work from home, sorry, is not a particularly good thing for your career. Yeah. Having been through the years of completely working five days a week in the office to that being put a stop in a in a corporate environment whereby that was not an option to work from home, it wasn't like a flexi weak uh possibility. And then obviously COVID happened and COVID removed all of those barriers, so now everyone was able to have work from uh work from home. Yeah, and then the subsequent years it kind of was like three or four days mandatory, not mandatory kind of. But I do think if you are entering the workforce already, but like say 20 or 21 after your university years, and you're already working from home, I do think it is not helpful for your career growth. And I and I I think you miss out on so on so much of working from home. And even just you know, without sounding patronizing, like it's it's also about learning, showing up, being there, get it, seeing what other people are up to, connecting, pushing yourself out of your comfort zone, you know, being behind a desk, being accountable, etc. We all know that when you're working from home, you're gonna be distracted by other things by default. People do it because then they can put the wash on, they can receive parcels, they can go down to the post office, they can go, you know, uh walk the dog, etc. And whilst that does provide.

SPEAKER_00 7:13

I remember you on your work from home days.

SPEAKER_01 7:16

It was like admin day.

SPEAKER_00 7:18

It was with a mouse moving.

SPEAKER_01 7:20

Yeah. And it's just like, and I do I do think that you know you become proactive when you work in the office and reactive when you work from home. Um I'm not blanketing this for every single person because I do think some people work very well in that environment. Yeah, very few people can actually be way, way more productive in a home environment if they're completely true to themselves.

SPEAKER_00 7:47

Especially, I think, if there's kids and distractions around, right? Because you're there's your attention being taken left, right. Like it's practically impossible to think that you could be totally focused when you have a screaming baby or something happening.

SPEAKER_01 8:00

But then so then I think that's my opinion in terms of just what the pure work life and the pure work from home piece. Now, I totally agree that most women, once they've had children, they do want to be able to have some flexibility around their time, and that is completely normal. Yeah, it makes sense, and therefore working from home is a hugely helpful tool to be able to do that. Um, and so then it's up to the employer to decide, you know, whether or not they that how is their workforce managed in that way. But I the reality is is that it does hinder your your long-term career prospects, I think. That's what she's kind of coming to say, which but it's still don't like to hear it, but it is true, and there are reasons for that.

SPEAKER_00 8:50

Yeah, I think it's just super tough. Again, it kind of comes off as it just makes it again harder for women because the extra burden. But then there's also a discussion to be said, like you need to then be getting your spouse more involved and like, you know, get the help from your other half if you're in like a in a dual partnership where the other person also has to pull their weight, and where women should probably be, you know, now that we are working and they can be equal owners in a household and they can contributing financially to equal amounts of their spouses, then getting that support where household chores are more equally divided would free up also their opportunities to be working more easy.

SPEAKER_01 9:36

It's interesting as I feel like part of society has gone faster than the other side of it. And so that bit of, you know, now in reality we need two incomes.

SPEAKER_00 9:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:48

Therefore, women have to keep their their jobs and their income. And also they still wear the hat as the mum and the you know looking after the household, also as the pair as a primary carer. Yeah. And um, so it's it's many very important roles, whereas I don't think the other side has gone as quickly, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:06

Not you know, it has improved, I'm sure, in this generation versus the last generation, but I think it's still viewed that, you know, the food shop, yeah, you know, the primary phone call from the nursery is gonna typically view them on is of course in a very sort of you know heteronormal kind of setting where male and female kind of uh but what do you think about um the solution to the work from home piece?

SPEAKER_01 10:34

Like, do you agree that it's a career barrier?

SPEAKER_00 10:38

I don't actually think that you can have work-life balance. Like, I don't think work-life balance is something you should be striving for, actually. I think I'm asking about work from home. You're asking about work from home. Oh, work from home. I've I've never been able to work from home. Even when I started up my own business, one of the first things I invested in was a co-working space because I had to have a third space. I was like, I can't, I need a space which is just dedicated to working. It's only in very rare circles.

SPEAKER_01 11:09

You would therefore tend to agree that work from home isn't great for your career.

SPEAKER_00 11:13

For me, I don't think that's for everyone. I do think I've heard people who say they work really effectively at home, and I think some people have that capacity. I do also, I would advocate for me more. It's not so much just the work from home or the I think it's the flexibility. Yeah, right. Like there's nothing wrong with maybe I start a bit later, and so even I do it this way. I'll often do one or two hours at home in the morning, have breakfast, shower, things like that. Then I go to the work, I turn up at the office at like 10, work till four, go home, eat, make food, and then work a little bit later. Yeah, that works for me better, but I still need that separate space.

SPEAKER_01 11:51

Yeah. So flexibility is definitely key for women to um have drop off the kid, more of a work-life bacteria. Exactly. People have the ability to keep working whilst taking on the responsibilities that they are society has kind of put onto them.

SPEAKER_00 12:07

And not be penalised because of it.

SPEAKER_01 12:08

And I suppose what Emma greed is not helpful with. It's not the statement that she's made, which is possibly quite true, but it what she's not helpful with is that she's not moving the conversation. Yeah. And I think that's possibly where I have a bit of an issue. It's not it's not that what you're saying isn't true. It's yeah, but what are you doing about it? Yeah. You're in a very you're in a hugely privileged position. Yeah. And not that she didn't, she worked hard to get there, and merits to her, you know, she's extra she is she's extremely successful. Yeah. But you're not really moving the needle. You're just, you know, reiterating this kind of like very narrative. This narrative. And also completely off she doesn't talk about is the resources it takes to be able to work that type of life. Yeah. You know, because if you're not looking after your kids, then who is? And I can tell you, nurseries do not, you know, they don't do 24-hour care. So you have, you know, you have help at home, yeah, you have support around you, uh, if it's to do your chores, etc. So that's another thing is resources is going to be hugely dictating how you can work and what you're able to take on in one day.

SPEAKER_00 13:17

And I always think with these sort of people, when they're at that prime and they're writing these books, I always think, but you never talk about how what did you do and how were you doing it on your way up there when you didn't have those resources before you outsourced two of her pregnancies, right? Yeah. She didn't even have to go through that element. And I think that's exactly before you had the shares and before you had the extra pay, and you were still taking the bus and the tube and commuting an hour and a half every day each way. How were you doing all of it? Like, and I think that to me is the more interesting piece.

SPEAKER_01 13:51

Most women are gonna fall in that category.

SPEAKER_00 13:54

90% are between that zero and 10, but she's talking uh between like the 80 to 100. And I think that's yeah, that's the conversation that's worth having because it's that exactly that's the bit that I'm like, how do you unlock that piece? And one thing that practically none of these people talk about is luck. The luck being in the right place at the right time, meeting the right people. Now, I know you can to a certain extent increase your chances of having good luck and being in the right spaces, but ultimately luck plays a huge part.

SPEAKER_01 14:28

There's lots of, I'd like to believe there are plenty of emigrees out there who just didn't make it, who are working very hard and not make it. I mean that that they're doing well, but they're not her. Yeah. So I what I'm trying to say is that there she's not the only person who has done really well and who's worked really hard and sacrificed lots of things. People do this every single day, and yet they're not, you know, worth $450 million or something. So because they didn't get as lucky, it didn't get the break, they didn't get the yeah, you know. So I yeah, like you say, I do think luck, but that's really not the topic. I suppose what we're trying to talk about today is work-life balance. Yes. Whether she so someone like her would say is definitely not promoting it. Clearly, clearly not promoting it, which is fine. She is like, if you want to succeed in your career, you have to dedicate your life to your career, and everything else kind of comes and which is fine because that is for her what it means to have her work life. Maybe it's the balance isn't the right word, but that's her work life. So, what do you define as work life? Balance, or is there a definition to work life? Is it individual to each?

SPEAKER_00 15:35

Yeah, I mean, I guess success and happiness is defined differently to different people, right? I think different people find happiness in different places. Um I would say that compared to Emma Greed, if she's at one extreme, like I probably need a whole lot more the balance bit with like family time, friends, loved ones. Like I need to have more of that time. I think to for me to have happiness, okay. I have put myself in positions where I've worked non-stop and days on end, and that has never really resulted in a very so I do think it's an individual thing, clearly. You I think you have to find where, you know, where your happiness is, like what what makes you happy ultimately, and then figure out how does that then translate in in the division of your time. And let's face it, time is your most valuable resource. It is the one thing you cannot make more of. It's the one thing that you cannot that is constantly diminishing. So, what are you going to do with that time? Is probably the most important decision that you'll ever make.

SPEAKER_01 16:44

Yeah, so I think life work-life balance, first point is it's individual and it's essentially best a best spoke product. Everyone has their own version of it. Yeah. And they will define it for themselves, how that it works for them and suits them. And whether the, you know, whether it's 40, 60 or 30, whatever, 70, or etc., because based on the time that you have in your day and that you want to dedicate. Second point, I think actually really important is also the resources that you have to support a work life balance. Because someone might say, well, my perfect work balance is XYZ, but it's impossible for me to do that because I do not have the resources, either way, it's money, help, family, yeah, support, community, whatever that is that makes them able to have a work-life balance that they would like to have. And I'd say, even maybe even more kind of um important at the moment is that life is really tough for people. You know, say work as a economy is not, and and I know we're not like talking about that in a lot of depth here, but it's like we have to take the reality of, you know.

SPEAKER_00 17:56

I would say there's probably a lot of people who are just not living their work life balance as they wish because it's just not achievable. Yeah. Because of the resources piece.

SPEAKER_01 18:04

And because actually the economy is in a position that they can't just get a job easily. Yeah. And they're like, oh yeah, I'd love to be able to do that, but actually I can't find a job that enables me to have that freedom, that salary, that's good.

SPEAKER_00 18:18

You lose a loved one and suddenly you're having to look after a baby or whatever.

SPEAKER_01 18:23

I would say what I'm trying to say is that it's not super pros prosperous times.

SPEAKER_00 18:26

No. And it that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 18:28

And uncertainty means also that people, you know, they kind of go into freeze mode and they're like, okay, well, this is the best I can get right now, even though it's not really work-life balance.

SPEAKER_00 18:37

And yeah, and then we kind of go back to what's the spare, what is your time, how much do you have to allocate to these different things, and then what do you do with that spare or that time where you're not working? And that's individual to different people. Some people might want to do it at high side hustle to take them into better places, some people might want to dedicate it to loved ones, some people might dedicate it to community.

SPEAKER_01 18:57

Which leads me on to the third piece, which I think is priorities.

SPEAKER_00 19:01

Priorities, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:02

Where are your priorities? And like you've kind of uh pointed out, is what do you want to spend your time towards? Um and having the having very clear priorities on whether work, security, income, that's the way you go toward that's where you want to dedicate most of your time is, or family, you know, connection, community, etc. That's your direction, or you know, whatever that might be for that is ultimately comes down to priorities and values, right? I agree.

SPEAKER_00 19:33

I always remember you talking about this book about um dying people and that randomly in the summer.

SPEAKER_01 19:42

I loved it. It was called The Five Regrets of the Dying. Yeah. And it's essentially this um palliative pal palliative palliative carer who had spent like ten years in um palliative palliative. And um she obviously having looked after many people um at the end of their life, she wrote a book afterwards or during her time there about what she's kept hearing over and over and over again. Because people who are set especially when they're dying from like a disease and it's taking time, they have many hours to talk about and reflect. It's actually really, really like emotional book. But she then puts together what that she believes are the kind of the the um the themes that keep coming up, and it was really interesting because one of them out of the five was I wish I hadn't worked so hard.

SPEAKER_00 20:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:44

And none of them are I wish I had more money, yeah, or I wish I had worked harder more, or more, you know, uh dedicated hours to my work. So it's really interesting that, you know, at the end, and it's true, and I say this quite frequently to people when you're trying to get a perspective shift from them is at 80 or 85 what will be important to them because it gets you to to realise like we'll we'll excuse my French, but we'll ever think dying. Like that is the reality. We're all going in that direction. Time is only going in one place. So you have to like, yes, things might feel really, really like sticky right now or really important right now, but are they going to be by the time you're 80? And it's not to say throw things away and like don't care about things because we're going, it's more to say, like, actually, what do you care about and what is important to you? Because the chances are, you know, and and I think it helps you really get that perspective.

SPEAKER_00 21:41

Yeah. I know I think it gives you that perspective, but and and it doesn't want it's not about diminishing the importance. The importance. And yes, you do need to work now to earn money to be able to do these incredible things, like go on a holiday or see family or fee family, or you know, have a party or whatever it might be. But I think it's it's Where Emma Greed, I think, has probably gone that extreme of where clearly her work is her life. And maybe that's what brings her a great amount of joy. Yeah. Clearly, I don't think she would do it otherwise. And I think it kind of goes back to what is what brings you your joy and what maybe brings her that much joy might not be the same to you. And if you can, and if you are in a position where you can balance these things out, then that's probably a good starting place.

SPEAKER_01 22:28

Yes. And I have to say, like, I haven't, again, I haven't read her book, and I don't particularly intend to, but what I I don't think the content is, first of all, I don't think it's groundbreaking because it's probably the woman she's speaking to who is in that position or aspires to be in that position knows what she's saying, like absolutely knows that there's truth there. I I'm not even in that position I can say, yeah, it makes sense. And I can see why you know you're saying it. But what I feel is a bit not to say useless, but is where are you, what are you bringing to the table then? You are hu employing hundreds and hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of women, but you're not changing this narrative or trying to change the narrative or trying to insert a different perspective and say, yeah, guys, let's do things differently because maybe you don't have to do it that way. Or if you don't want to be the me's, yeah, i.e. the CEOs of multi-billion dollar companies, which many people aren't, there is maybe a different option. Yeah. Because most people in the workforce will fall under a different category and then be like, okay, well, let's make it work for the many, not the few. And well, I don't think it works for the few either, but like, as in it's and I and I that's my more my my point. It's that okay, you're saying all this stuff, but it w what is it that you're trying to get out of that? It's very it's not very helpful.

SPEAKER_00 23:53

No, it's not very helpful. And I actually think the people who are gonna be reading this is probably not gonna be very relate to them in many ways anyway.

SPEAKER_01 24:02

Well, well, they just work harder and then they, you know.

unknown 24:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:06

But then if you're not reflecting back on is that how I want to live my life, then the problem is you could be working harder, making yourself more miserable for it. Um interestingly, it's definitely nothing new that she's been like I've heard other, I would say, more prominent female CEOs who have talked about this in the past. And so I just find it it's interesting that she's coining it, but you're like, you it's been talked about a lot before.

SPEAKER_01 24:34

I don't think I don't think she's that's what I'm saying. I don't think people necessarily disagree with what she's saying. They're just she keeps, yeah, and she's saying it maybe more bluntly or more openly, because nowadays people are maybe corporations are not allowed to speak out in the same way, etc. But and that's fine that she's you know calling it for what it is, but it's like, okay, what are you then gonna do about it? Or is there a way we could work around that? Because the let's face it, the reality is most people, most yeah, most people I'm gonna say women, because we're it's we're talking together here, but they might they want to have a work from home um possibility because they want flexibility. So is there another way if work from home doesn't work, is there another way to bring in flexibility? Is there another way to let working parents um have this ability to you know deal with their responsibilities whilst also providing an income? And actually, it just made me think saying that now, the narrat the the conversation always talks to parents who are working, but it's like actually, what if you don't want to be a parent or you can't be a parent? That should still apply to you. Everyone is entitled to flexibility.

SPEAKER_00 25:43

Yeah, absolutely. Um is yeah, if you're not having just because you're not having to look after children or whatever it might be, you could still want the flexibility to pursue other things or no, absolutely. Um, yeah, it's it's a shame because I do think also in a world where people are quite literally burning themselves out at work, it's kind of it's also perpetu perpetuating this narrative of just work more, just work hard. If you work harder, if you work more, then you'll succeed. I don't always think that's also necessarily the solution. I do believe you have to work hard to succeed to achieve great things, but I think you should also you can also work smart. And that does include things like resting enough or exercising or looking after your physical well-being as much as your mental well-being, whilst you're also pushing in other ways. Um, and there's not, I mean, I don't know of, and you know, maybe that's a research to do, but to study people who have achieved relative, you know, great things without necessarily sacrificing, and maybe it is that these are all men, and maybe we should be taking a leaf out of their book on how men did it, and therefore that women could do that. Now, men would have had the women in the background managing at home so that they could just come home from work and spend time with their kids without dealing with the cleaning, the cooking, yeah, the bills, the admin, the admin. And so this is where I'm like, it where are we in that rebalancing so that both people can kind of achieve things? Yeah. Um, yeah. Okay. So in short, in short, I think work-life balance is a very, yes, like you said, it's an individual thing. I actually think more about work-life flexibility rather than moving.

SPEAKER_01 27:43

Moving balance out. Yeah. That's a very brave move. Yeah, maybe it is actually.

SPEAKER_00 27:48

Because I do think it's more about how do you go. Let's face it, we take our laptops and our phones home with us at night. So there isn't any more this whole, I close my laptop, my computer work from everywhere, or emails follow you everywhere. Exactly. So her whole thing of like you can't work from home, but everyone is working from home. You're picking up an email during dinner, you're watching a film and someone pings you like a, you know, Teams or whatever, you're answering it. Like, and people cannot switch off. So I think it's about how do we how do we live better with that flexibility? And where you do a couple of hours before you get to the office, but maybe instead of having to be at the office at eight, you turn up at 9:30, 10. So that then you can do a few emails, go to the gym, and then get to the office. So it allows you more of that flexible way of doing it.

SPEAKER_01 28:41

Yeah, so work you're talking about work-life flexibility.

SPEAKER_00 28:46

You know, I'm gonna coin it work-life fluidity.

SPEAKER_01 28:49

Fluidity, okay. Yeah, like good.

SPEAKER_00 28:51

Where it's sort of it's more about one intertwining in the other and figuring out how that works.

SPEAKER_01 28:57

And so, therefore, do you think that uh it's therefore kind of okay for corporations now to to or or do you what do you think about corporations who say now you need to be in the office?

SPEAKER_00 29:09

Well, I think another way you can do it is office time, no office time, right? You can do it. But we're gonna be much more about results-based.

SPEAKER_01 29:20

And I think that some people speak for themselves.

SPEAKER_00 29:23

Exactly. Like some people, if you're super efficient, good for you. You've figured out what you can do, and you can do it in the most small shortest amount of time. And having worked in large corporate settings, very few, or I've there's been a lot of instances where key KPIs have not been set, and therefore that's when the issues arise. Because then what are the expectations? When have you delivered your job? Like at what point have you achieved what you and your boss had sort of set out to do? And I think if you've clearly laid out KPIs, and maybe it's more brutal because if you don't achieve them, then it's that's at the point where it's like, okay, we're gonna put you on a PPI, put performance, uh, what is it?

SPEAKER_01 30:08

Um uh you just make that up.

SPEAKER_00 30:10

No, it's like a performance review enhancement, whatever. Um a pip, sorry, PIP. Um, we'll put you on a pip to get you there. And if you don't achieve that, you've got to go. Like you can't clear it.

SPEAKER_01 30:24

Yeah, because I think that's something that could happen as well. If you have too much work for home but not the structure, then you end up doing admin or doing washing or doing, you know. I know that instead of dictating how people should work, measure them on their outcomes and on their results.

SPEAKER_00 30:43

And then being if they're delivering, who cares? Yeah. They want to work on standing on their heads, fine.

SPEAKER_01 30:49

Standing on their heads. Well, you never know. The blood flow. Yeah, it's kind of a bit of a useless term in a way, just saying work-life balance and calling it that because it's like, well, that's a very umbrella term that that doesn't actually mean the same thing to anyone.

SPEAKER_00 31:05

Yeah, because it could be that, oh well, I'm not at the office as much, but my phone is 24-7, and if my boss calls me at two o'clock in the morning, I've got to pick up. Like, to me, that's more intrusive than having to go to a nine to five at an office every day. Um, so I do think the term is a bit dated, and that's why Probably. That's why we're going with work-life fluidity. Perfect. On that note. On that note, are we gonna are you do you have work-life fluidity, do you think?

SPEAKER_01 31:34

Uh I do.

SPEAKER_00 31:36

Actually, yes. And that's the best thing about working for yourself.

SPEAKER_01 31:39

Yeah, is you can't find as much, but that's where I that's the downside. Security side, but yeah, no, you're you're 100% on fluidity. 100% on fluidity, yeah. Work in progress.

SPEAKER_00 31:51

So, with that, thank you so much for watching Shift Happens. Um, you can catch this episode and all the other episodes wherever you catch your podcasts. Thank you so much.