Ep 14: The Closers Mentality Pt II: With John Rocker

There are two versions of John Rocker. The one you think you know from the headlines, and the one who sat down for this conversation.

In Part 2, John takes us back to a cheap hotel room off I-295 in Jacksonville, Florida. He was demoted, pitching scared, and counting ERA percentages in his head mid-inning just to cope. Most people would want to forget a moment like that. John built his whole career on top of it.

Not because a coach pulled him aside. Not because he discovered some magic pitch. But because he made a conscious decision to stop being afraid.

What followed was a run that still doesn't get talked about enough. From a 4.5 ERA to 2.1 over 270 innings. From mop-up guy to one of the most electric closers in the game. From Double-A Jacksonville to the World Series at Yankee Stadium.

John also opens up about what it really feels like to close a game, the adrenaline, the pacing in the bullpen like a bull in a gate, how you bounce back from a blown save, and why the mentality of a closer is something you either have or you develop the hard way.

And yeah, the media stuff comes up too. John explains what it was like to have words pulled from a 10-hour conversation and turned into a national headline, and why he stopped doing print media entirely.

This is a conversation about adversity, self-belief, and what happens when a person finally bets on themselves. Whether the listener is in sports, business, or anything in between, there is something real and useful in this one.

Available on all major audio platforms.

Subscribe and leave a comment if this one resonated with you.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

All right, folks, let's say you get 115 putts from five feet, 115 shots from 10 feet at a basketball goal. Let's say you're hitting and someone soft tosses you 115 pitches and 91 of them you convert. That's what my guest did throughout his career. Only 24 times did it go wrong. Let me say that again. Only 24 times did it go wrong. 91 times it went right. That is someone I would lean in, listen to, and really drink from the well of wisdom from John Rocker. What's up, stud? Not much, man.

SPEAKER_00 0:37

Same old, same old button. You did that shit, though. I did. I did. Back back in a previous life as a younger man that uh they actually walked standing up straight, not hunched over and limping like I do now.

SPEAKER_01 0:47

Thankfully, you hunch over and limp. That's the only way I can beat you in golf. That's the only way. Only way I can beat you in golf.

SPEAKER_00 0:52

You're a little better than I am.

SPEAKER_01 0:53

You still hit it 320, stud. Let's go. Part two, my friend. Thank you for coming back. No problem. Looking great. I want to go back. You were in Jacksonville. Uh you you were in a position where you weren't throwing as hard as as you eventually were. Yeah, pick up where you left them.

SPEAKER_00 1:10

It was, it was the mentallic. Like we were talking about uh uh last episode. It was a mentallic. For 40 years, I did not enjoy playing. I played scared. I told you that I would literally sit before I would walk out uh uh for the third inning. I would have cavity in my mind. If I if I go through this inning with no runs, my ERA will be this. I knew it. Like it will drop 0.8%. It'll be a 3.92 from a from a five. Now I knew these in my head, intra game. That's not fun playing like that. And it was it was the Jacksonville. It was it was I can't believe I've got to pitch this piece of shit game tomorrow that doesn't matter. And then just like like like a Mike Tyson slap across the face was like, oh my god, this game doesn't matter. I can finally play a baseball game for the first time in four years and enjoy playing. Something that I I greatly enjoyed doing in high school. And and prior to that, I've not had the least bit of fun playing professional baseball, something I've wanted to do since I was, you know, was uh you know, 12, 13, 14 years old. And um, and went out and dealt that game. I went out and dealt to extremely well. Uh seven innings, I think one run, 10 punch outs, two or three hits. I mean, just shoved. And on the on the bus ride back to Greenville, I'm like, all right, we've got a new mentality. And it was it was an ultra-aggressive mentality. It was the the expression, fake it till you make it. It was that. It was walking on the field, eyeballing hitters, blankety blank blankets going through my head, chest puffed out, head up. Yeah, I've got a five year at the time. A five. Uh, I'm not a badass by any means. Uh, but yeah, in my mind, I was the baddest some bitch on that field. So drive back to Greenville, playoff start uh the following week. Uh I was not in the starting rotation uh playoffs. I was I was the uh like fourth starter on that rotation. They went with the with three stars because it's a three-game set. But three stars, they put me out of the bullpen. I'd never relieved in my entire life up to that point. Well, it's the point. I'm the long guy if one of our starters gets knocked out early. I'm the long guy that comes in, you know, presumably in like an eight to one ball game in the third. You know, not a very you know, middle reliever, middle reliever. Uh middle reliever. The long guy. That's literally the only way I would pitch is we're losing like eight to one in the third. And we need a guy that's got some longevity that can eat innings up. Maybe we climb back in the game. Not a flattering position to put, but the long guy, you know, also called mop-up guy.

SPEAKER_01 3:31

So, John, I got I got I look look, I gotta pop in here, okay? My podcast, love you so much. You know, you're my boy. How much confidence would that give me if I feel like I'm a long guy? So you'd say long guy's a mop-up guy. You you just said mop-up. So, you know, no one puts a lot of stock in, no one is betting on, no one is saying this is the next John Rocker that's gonna pitch for the Atlanta Braves and help secure the first World Series potentially ever, or or for generations, so to speak. I think a lot of our viewing audience can bear witness with it. God, I know I could, where no one's betting on you. Your coach isn't, your pitching coach, uh, you don't have an agent at this point. You can't, you know, okay, good, it wasn't that great. But but so somebody saw something great in you. You developed it in yourself. I just I want to be clear. There's times, bro, that I felt the same frickin' way where everybody's looking over you, everybody's saying they're not who they think they are, or potentially, you know, we would want them to be. Somebody thought that about you. Again, everybody probably thinks John Rocker just rose to the top, no adversity, no struggle. Here you are pitching the long.

SPEAKER_00 4:40

And and I was in the mop-up role. We played uh Toronto's double A team, um, the Knottsville Smokies. And uh three games, didn't pitch. Uh a couple off days mixed in there, so I hadn't thrown in like a week at this point. We win the series. Uh, then we go and uh play a best of five series for the uh Southern League Championship, the double AA championship, Southern League, uh, against the Huntsville Stars. Um Miguel Tejado was on that team. Vin Breed was on that team, Ryan Chris is on that team. They had like five or six guys off that team uh that became big league veterans. So they got you know eight, ten, twelve. I think Miguel played like 17 years. Um that team hit 290 as a team. Wait, God, they were good. And um, so yeah, same same role as we go into that uh that series. Series tied 1-1. Uh I had pitched at this point in time, like 10 days. And so our starter, Jamie Arnold, he goes out. And remember the mentality switch, you know. Well, I had a second opportunity to go out there with that FU mentality. I'm the baddest guy out here, I'm just gonna be aggressive, have fun, attack. I only had one chance, and it was a game that didn't matter. So we're we're 1-1, we're playing in Huntsville. Our starter, Jamie Arnold, and he gets pulled. Well, no, gives up six runs in the first two innings. Middle of the third, he's thrown 70 pitches or so by this point in time. We're losing six-nothing. It comes a torrential downpour. Just dumping. Rained so hard, the grounds crew could not get the tarp on the field before the tarp got swamped. They couldn't move it. Field gets soaked, bang the game. Come back tomorrow, 0-0, starting the first inning. I'm in the uh clubhouse. This goes Bruce Del Campbell. Somebody's like, Rock, you got tomorrow. I'm like, oh shit. This game does matter. It's the rudder match of a five-game set. Whoever wins this game, controls the series, one will win, they will they win win southern league championship. And so I'm sitting at my hotel at night going, all right, big boy, this mentality shift. Let's let's go with it again. Let's let's let's let's make a conscious mental decision to have that tougher mentality, that attack mentality, that I'm the best so much out here mentality. And and self-belief. Did that uh same result. Seven innings, one run, ten punch outs, two or three hits, won the game, and then we won the we won the Central League Championship the next day.

SPEAKER_01 6:54

So let me interrupt to say, what did you have to stop doing in order for you to start getting better? Because it was in you all the time.

SPEAKER_00 7:03

You're afraid, self-doubt. Uh thinking about all the things that could go wrong. Um, letting letting the fight be taken to me instead of me taking the fight to them. Um, but just main thing was just a lot of self-doubt. Uh you know, not a lot of confidence. What's the the expression, you know, uh I said this in a while. Um, you can't have success without confidence, but you can't have confidence without success. It's huge. Damn if you do, damn if you don't. Um and so in a situation like that, some intermittent successes. Again, I was a I was a 500 pitcher with a four and a half ERA, not lighting the world on fire exactly. Um so I had to kind of fake it till you make it. And and that meant mental shift right there. And when I say again, I was a 500 pitcher with a four and a half ERA, the that the the mind shifts, the conscious mental mind shift in Jacksonville, said meetings one run. Next game, 10 days later, and Huntsville gets a Huntsville stars against guys like Nigel Tejada, who I think should be in the Hall of Fame. Seb meetings one run. I went to the Arizona Fall League after that, which is the top six prospects of all 30 teams. Uh I think it's 80% of guys that appear in the fall league will be in the big leagues the following year at some point. Call up start the season, whatever. There's probably five or six guys on each team who'd already been in the big leagues. I'd never face hitters, consistently face hitters that good. 10 starts in the fall league, two and a half ERA, went six and one. Go to Puerto Rico or leave for the first time. Puerto Rico had like a 1.7. Go into spring training, 10 innings in spring training, had like a two. I went to AAA for like three weeks, had a 1.4 in triple A. Four and a half ERA to 500 pitch for four years. One mental shift and over I've calculated before. It was like from that mental shift all the way until the end of the playoffs in '98, where when the padres knocked us out. I think I threw like 270 innings and had like a 2.1 ERA. Wow. I didn't come up with some magic pitch. I did find a few miles an hour because we're leaving. You can come out and just let your hair out, just let it all hang out. That's where uh the 94-96 turned into 96 to 100 was the relieving factor. Um, but no magic pitch. No, you know, a few more miles an hour. Yes, it was a chain of mentality.

SPEAKER_01 9:22

That's amazing. It's such because it was in you all along. Yeah, it was it was living inside you. It just had to be harvested. Someone had to believe in you. And and what's so interesting to me is that it was you that had to believe in you. Yeah, it wasn't a coach, it wasn't a parent, it wasn't a spouse, it wasn't uh a colleague, it wasn't a teammate. It was something that you looked internally and said, you know what, damn it, I've done this before. And when I succeeded, I pitched with no fear. I pitched attacking. I pitched with nobody else. Well, damn right, damn right.

SPEAKER_00 9:54

The great John Rocker. And so to fast forward, so I mean, and to be a closer, you we've talked about, you know, what's the difference in a successful closer and a or a starter and a closer. Let's get into that. It's mentality.

SPEAKER_01 10:06

So so what but you started in Jacksonville, you perhaps Birmingham, wherever. But when did was it the Braves that said you're gonna be a closer?

SPEAKER_00 10:14

When did the transition it was Puerto Rico? They sent me to Puerto Rico, uh San Juan. Uh first year was Mayaguez, the Mayaguez Indios.

SPEAKER_01 10:23

Spell that, John. No, no, no, okay, just make it short.

SPEAKER_00 10:26

Um, it was on the uh West of the Island. Um and uh well, obviously, you know, it was it was it was trying to break into a starting rotation in Atlanta that had uh well, they had seven Cy Young's in that rotation, so probably not gonna do that. Um, but they had some some bullfin squats over. And they sent me to Four Rico to one thing to see if I could relieve. You know, so I went down there and then first time ever we're leaving, and uh that that was my niche. Um, you know, a little little bit, a little bit ADD and trying to you know keep locked in as a starter on a good day for you why two hours, man. Two hours, you gotta be. Closer, give me, give me, give me, give me 12 minutes. Give me 12 minutes, folks. So go out there and let's go out there, air out a few fastballs, spin a few sliders, and let's let's let's have a drink.

SPEAKER_01 11:09

We're having lunch the other day, and and and John tells me, he's like, Harvey, um, imagine having you know, how did you how did you how did you frame it? Um and and and correct me, because I'm I'm sure I'll I'll butcher this, but when you're a starter, you've got some 50 minutes to get it right. Let's just say. A starter's has 55-0, almost an hour, but a closer is what?

SPEAKER_00 11:46

Yeah, no, I mean games are three hours long. I mean, if you're if you have a good start, seven innings, I mean you're out there for two hours.

SPEAKER_01 11:52

Two hours.

SPEAKER_00 11:52

You'll be locked in.

SPEAKER_01 11:53

I'm saying they're not like the normal whomever that gets knocked out in the fifth. Okay, let's just say that's quick correcting me on my own show, John. Okay. Point being, let's just say you're a closer that the time you've got to finish the job that was done before you is it's it's it's so less than. And and I think you like it'll be anyway.

SPEAKER_00 12:16

You don't want to be out there 30 minutes. I don't know that.

SPEAKER_01 12:18

Wait, 15 minutes for a closer? What do you think?

SPEAKER_00 12:20

I mean shit, if I have a 12-pitch inning, I mean I'm out there for less than 10.

SPEAKER_01 12:24

Less than 10?

SPEAKER_00 12:25

Wow. 12, 12, 15, 15, 15.

SPEAKER_01 12:27

What's that like? Because I think a lot of people find themselves in like the eighth or the ninth inning of their life. God, I didn't get here by myself. A lot of people helped me to get to where I'm at. A lot of people helped you to get to where you are. We've talked about it off camera. Uh, for the sake of time, we we, you know, here we are. But here you come, here a lot of people come in the ninth inning of their career, of a business opportunity, of a relationship, and a lot of eyes are on you, dude. A lot of people are saying, okay, we've done all this, now we're looking to you. And then here you step up, here you run out. Uh, I would have I would have played We Will Rock You, just to be honest with you. If I if I had a run out song, my name was Rocker. If I, you know, but I'm that was so.

SPEAKER_00 13:08

I think, I think, I think I want to rock. So good. So good.

SPEAKER_01 13:12

I'm just saying, if you need a backup, if you need a backup, that's a good backup. All right, I'm just saying, what what the frick was that like knowing all those eyes are on you and all that work had gone in ahead, and here you are. Here you are, closing the frickin' door to what had come before.

SPEAKER_00 13:28

Yeah, it's a lot of adrenaline. And I tell you one thing, the the the mentality better be it better be tuned up. It better be tuned up. Um, and and that that's where that Jacksonville experience. So I'm tired of playing afraid. I'm I'm the baddest son bitch out there. And you know, the cliche I said a second ago, success creates confidence. But it's hard to have confidence without success. Amen. Um, but the more success you get, you know, it's almost like you do, you have to fake it till you make it. I mean, I've been getting my ass fairly consistently handed to me all the way through the miners. I got demoted a couple times. I got sent from uh Macon down to Eugene, Oregon. I got demoted uh from the side league to Northwest League. I go from living at my parents' house, what I grew up in, to living in sleeping on a mattress on the floor at some piece of crap apartment uh complex in Eugene, Oregon, play for the Eugene Emeralds in the Northwest League, short season A. Um, and did that in front of all my you know childhood friends and all that. I was pretty embarrassed. Where's John? Oh, he got sent down yesterday. Pretty embarrassed to come back over the winter and explain, well, where'd you go? Um so yeah, uh that that that mentality, when I made that mental shift in Jacksonville, I didn't I didn't have success to create that confidence. I had to just like NLP reframe my situation and consciously have confidence. Well then once the winds started piling up, and yeah, then okay, the kind of the confidence comes, it it stays.

SPEAKER_01 14:56

John, I think there's a moment in every successful person's life. I don't care if it's sports, if it's business, if it's music, uh, whatever it is you're aspiring to do, where you go through adversity and you've got to check yourself. You've got to look internally and say, do I have it? Is it here? Have I studied enough? Have I prepared enough? Am I ready for what it is that's coming out?

SPEAKER_00 15:19

Yeah, you know, if you gotn't gone to adversity, your goals aren't big enough.

SPEAKER_01 15:22

That's right. That's exact exactly right. But once that happens, which again, with you happening, I love the way you keep reverting back to Jacksonville.

SPEAKER_00 15:31

That's that was the one moment. I can still my mind, I go back to it at that piece of crap hotel room like Laquinta Inn, you know, off Interstate 295. They're in Jacksonville.

SPEAKER_01 15:42

But Johnny, you convinced yourself. That's what I'm hearing. And I think there's a time when we convince ourselves that, you know what, damn it, I'm good enough. There's something here. And if it's not for the Braves, it's for the Brewers. And if it's not for the Brewers, it's it's for the Astros. And if it's not for the Astros, it's for the athletics, whomever it is. There's something here that's not going to be denied in whatever industry that you're looking to dominate. And, dude, it's just an amazing story to kind of be able to hear the backstory of. What was it like pitching in the World Series?

SPEAKER_00 16:13

Uh, it was incredible. I didn't get to say the game because we didn't win any games. Um I pitched in three of the four games. And it means it started at 14 years old with a wild hair up your ass. I won't fame in the big leagues to have it culminate at a World Series and Yankee Stadium. There's no no bigger stadium on the planet than World Series Yankee Stadium. It does not get bigger than that. Um it was it was it was awesome. So my uh uh I always cherish those memories. Best closer you've ever seen is who? I mean, it's gotta be Rivera. Um just calm, cool, collected. Just just like a you look for like an like a like an on button on him. It's like they just like switch you on, and then you're just like a car that just goes like 55 miles an hour, just never, never speeds up, never slows down, just nice and steady. Tony Tony Kornheiser calls him the hammer of God. Yeah, just just just clicking that cutter up there. Flicking that cutter.

SPEAKER_01 17:02

Uh best pitching advice you've ever received.

SPEAKER_00 17:06

Don't fuck it up.

SPEAKER_01 17:08

All right. I like it.

SPEAKER_00 17:09

I don't know. No, that that's good. No, that's that's what I'm saying. Don't hit them or walk them. That's just that's just me me and a smart ass answer.

SPEAKER_01 17:16

Um you still lead the the the hit batsman in the Baptist Church League, I think, here in Preston.

SPEAKER_00 17:22

I do. I do. Uh he always threw his own son at a father-son game. Yeah, exactly. Um, if you're a Bob Euchre fan. So speaking of that, speaking of that, um I have you mentioned Milwaukee. I'm I'm in Milwaukee like 10 years ago uh in an event that Cecil Cooper was putting on. I got high eye drunk with the Duke from Major League. There you go. He was he was uh I think I think he mentioned in the big leagues. No, I never mentioned my shoe. But I did get uh the Duke from the Major League.

SPEAKER_01 17:50

Shut up. The the right-hander. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:51

Oh, big red. Yeah, he's like, yeah, he's a leads the league and this and this and this hits Batman.

SPEAKER_01 17:57

That's right. That's right.

SPEAKER_00 17:58

I got Pad with that guy. Me and him and Greg Bond did.

SPEAKER_01 18:02

So toughest hitter you ever faced, John, and why?

SPEAKER_00 18:06

Todd Hilton. Uh he lives like 12 miles. Does he does he live down here?

SPEAKER_01 18:12

He's in Bird Pine.

SPEAKER_00 18:14

Okay. I I've already played golf at Burn Pine. I've never seen him over there.

SPEAKER_01 18:16

Let's go, let's go whip his ass. Well, I mean, we're I'm glad they finally put him in the hall. Let's listen, let's play off best drive, own ball to the hole. I got it.

SPEAKER_00 18:24

Well, I can't play right now.

SPEAKER_01 18:25

I'm still on the rough scene.

SPEAKER_00 18:27

Um a few more months I probably would. But you know, guys with big things. Belton was amazing. I don't know. He was in a career career like 309, 310 hitter. Such a smooth swing. But short swing with pop. That's what you don't want to see. You know, if you got pop, like a Mike Piazza, that big that swing will wrap around his head three fucking times. Um give me that guy all day. And like a little, like a little, you know, Fernando Vinha, you know, some small guy, that's a little slap hitter. You know, they got a short swing, they're hard to strike out, they're contact guys, but they're not gonna do a whole lot of damage against you. Those guys may hit eight, nine, ten home ones a year. Todd, same thing. Great bounce, hard as hell to fool the guy. Short swing. If you made a mistake, it wasn't double in the gap, it was in the freaking 12th row. So that's what made it so tough, though.

SPEAKER_01 19:09

So, question here is is closing talent or is it tolerance for pressure? This mentality.

unknown 19:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 19:16

Yeah. I mean, even looking at the closet. So it's tolerance. Yeah. You look today. Uh, I can't remember that who I was watching the other day. Their setup guy, right hander, I mean, he's I don't think he threw a pitch under 98, blows through the eighth inning. They bring their closer in, their closer is topping at 92. That's a mentality thing. 100% mentality. And he did fine. He, you know, I think he faced four others, got three of them out. Um, it's not always the guy with the best stuff. It's it's the guy that can that can keep it together up here.

SPEAKER_01 19:45

So speaking of keeping it together up here, you you blew 24 saves. You had 91. Okay. So look that that that, by the way, that ratio's in sync. And somebody on our team, get me that that number. John John, 115, 91 go right, 24 go wrong. Everything's not gonna go right, boss. You know this. I know this. Even even post-baseball, you know. How do you bounce back after a blown save?

SPEAKER_00 20:12

How you blew it. I mean, all those saves, you know, blown saves, make someone could have been an error, someone could have been, you know, something like that. If you if you go out there and you know, you walk two guys, you go 3-0 on the third guy, and he takes you in the gap and you just look like absolute crap. I might need to watch the film, get the bullpen, figure shit out. Because if something something ain't going right, my my command's not there, my breaking ball's hanging, etc. Um, but if it's competitive, you know, uh uh I went 3-2 on a guy, we ended up in a 13-pitch at bat, and I walked him. Okay. And then Helton comes up, future Hall of Famer, he takes me deep. Okay, somebody's got to tip that. You know, they they those those guys get paid to hit just like I get paid to pitch. But anyway, it's one of those just ugly ones. But I threw I threw 28 pitches, I only threw a leb strikes. That's that's ugly. It's time I'm time to watch them film. Or in those, you you don't sleep very well after those, man.

SPEAKER_01 21:06

Or see who who's behind the plate. Um you know, I'm a I'm a big UFC advocate. Juno DeSantos, great friend of the show. He's been on. And I I love uh I love uh Sagano. Um when when you begin to look at closing a game, I when those guys walk that aisle and they play that music and they're going in, you know, physically, right?

SPEAKER_00 21:32

Like Be the man, you gotta beat the man.

SPEAKER_01 21:34

Right. So so here you go. What is it? I mean I'm just for our viewing audience, I I guarantee if I'm thinking this, I got a lot of people to think like me. What is it like? Closing a game is best described as what?

SPEAKER_00 21:45

Organized chaos, controlled chaos. Um of course, back in the day you can't do it anymore. It's all the fun out of the game. You know, we're we're jacked up on this, jacked up on that. Steroids and fetal beans. That will change your mentality. That that makes you 10 feet tall and bulletproof and one belligerent son bitch. And I can remember, you know, Bobby used to love the weather we call them dry humps. When you get up, you get loose and sit back down. And uh, you know, a lot of times those closures come out there, even really they come out there. I've already thrown four innings in the bullpen. I've been throwing, I've been up since a seventh. It's the tenth, and I'm finally like, damn, I thought I've thrown 120 pitches already in the bullpen. Um, but there'd be times and you know, and and and the dugout had a camera into the bullpen. They were able to see you know how guys were progressing, who's hot and who's not. And uh, I mean, there'd be so many times that I'm up, I'm ready, and they give the reliever another hitter. Yeah, I mean, I am pacing back and forth. I'm I throw I throw the baseball off the freaking wall. They don't, they don't, you know, they don't come to get the reliever and bring me in. Um, look at the cameras to the camera to to Bobby and Leo who look at the camera. You know, I'm I'm getting ready to get in there.

unknown 22:51

Anything.

SPEAKER_00 22:52

Ever seen the the you ever do a rodeo?

SPEAKER_01 22:55

Have I ridden?

SPEAKER_00 22:56

Have you ever been to a rodeo?

SPEAKER_01 22:58

Absolutely. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 22:59

So you see when the when the uh the cowboys on the bull's back, that's right, and the bulls again it's not ready. And that bull's just ready to go. That's that's how I was closing. I'm that bull in that cage, just open the freaking door, let's get going.

SPEAKER_01 23:13

My God, the great John Rocker. I hope you guys are getting as much out of this as I am. Maybe not a childhood hero of yours like he was mine. John, think about this, man. You make a lot of money, and somebody sticks a microphone in your face and you're young. And dude, I got a 20-year-old at the University of Georgia. And this boy will say things to me and like knows everything, doesn't he? Knows it all. Dude, he's he's uh he tells daddy what daddy needs to know and daddy's paying for everything he's doing, right? Um, but yes, a great talent, but a great talent that worked his ass off and believed in himself, bet on himself, went through adversity. That adversity taught him something. Yes, he lost, but those losses taught him. He lost, but he won from the loss. And I love the way you reverted back in times of future adversity to how you learned from what you went through in in Jacksonville. Dude, that's huge, brother. I just want to ask you, um, social media. Damn.

SPEAKER_00 24:13

We dude, we grew up in an era. I make a lot of money off social media, but it's still, it still is the bane of our existence. Dude, it's just all just dole weight.

SPEAKER_01 24:21

Daddy, can you imagine if you and I, freshmen, sophomore, juniors in college, you you you you forewent, for goad, how do you say that? Uh, the University of Georgia to go to the pros. Um, but dude, if if they filmed all the stuff I did or you did, or every, you know, good God, I'm on. And by the way, in the in the early days, we're nobody. I'm I'm still nobody, but still, and then you start, you start to collect notoriety based on what you do in a platform. Yours was the baseball field. And look, man, look, you said some things, and and the reason I bring this up, I know a different version of you. I know a version of you that that is a softer, kinder. Like you have you have a passion for for for people and helping. And again, not that you're apologizing, but I just thought it would be great to give you a platform to just speak to people that don't know you.

SPEAKER_00 25:14

I like talking politics. And I mean, the the world has not changed. Uh it's just gotten more vehement, uh, since 1999, 2000. You know, what what happens, generally speaking, when a conservative tries to talk politics to an just ultra-left liberal? What happens? Over too well. Especially when you're talking to one that that buys ink by the truckload. Yeah. And I I was young, I was 24 years old, 25 years old. And uh, you know, I I'd known the guy for a year or two. I've never taught politics. And I never I didn't think of the world back then in terms of liberals versus conservatives. And I I think it's really only been the last 10 to 15 years. There's there's there's been a war going on between liberals and conservatives for a long time, but I think conservatives are just now realizing that war has been existing. I think liberals knew they were fighting 30 years ago. Conservatives just woke up about 10 years ago, oh they they really hate our asses. They really fucking do. And um, yeah, and then spending an entire day with a with a journalist loving to talk politics and just not seeing the world, not knowing that that that living and servers are in a fight, he's in a fight with me without me knowing it, and start talking politics.

SPEAKER_01 26:28

John, how how how frustrating is it?

SPEAKER_00 26:29

And I I've on a much smaller scale, brother, but when they take an excerpt of an entirety of a it was a 10-hour. That's what I'm trying to say.

SPEAKER_01 26:39

I know I know, I know, I've looked. Okay. So uh, you know, even a 10-minute, let's say a hundred and ten minute, but but I I I know, I know. But they take the they take what they want to spin what they want people to hear.

SPEAKER_00 26:51

Here, here's how it works. So I stopped doing print media about 15 years ago. The journalists, when when you get contacted by a publication, they want to interview you. They already know the store they want to write about you before they ever before we ever even say yes or no. They already know the store they want, they won't want to write about you. All they need is a couple of little sound bites from you, a little excerpt here, eight words here, ten words there, to put around their context. And based on their context, they'll take your words and make you look however the hell they want to. They need your words in there with quotations around it to make their article look more legitimate. But they they've already got their mind made up how they're gonna make you look before they every bit the phone call your ass. They do.

SPEAKER_01 27:32

John Rocker, I'm 50 years old. Um, God's blessed me to be able to do some things I'm proud of for my family. And um, a lot of times I've met, I would say, celebrities like yourself, and they underwhelm you, sir, did not disappoint. You haven't from the first time I met you. I call you a friend. And I I uh I I believe in you. And I I know I know the real you hey, you got it, you got it, you got a hard shell, but there's a soft heart under that hard shell. I'm talking about the great John Rocker. Thank you for being on the drive.